We learn that nasty, snooping little bureaucratic toe-rags working for Poole Borough Council, Dorset, spent three weeks spying on an innocent couple whose only crime was wanting the best primary school for their child.
They actually sat outside the couple’s house, watching their movements and making surreptitious notes to check whether they were trying to fiddle the admissions system. But the council pleads it was perfectly justified in using legislation which was actually brought in to combat terrorism and serious organised crime.
How on earth did we come to this? How did the nation that won two world wars, saw off the Spanish Armada, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler and was once regarded as a bastion of free speech and democracy, allow ourselves to be lulled into a state in which moronic, neo-fascist bureaucrats with clipboards can spy on innocent parents whose only crime is wanting the best for their child's future?
I find it utterly beyond belief - except, of course, that it isn't, because it is happening all too frequently. How the idiot bullies of Poole Council can equate parents trying to get their child into a particular school with blatant benefits frauds is beyond me. I hope the nasty, sneaky little would-be James Bonds who spent three weeks sitting outside the couple's home, making pathetic notes, are proud of themselves. Perhaps they should get themselves roles as extras in the next Bond film!
Surely, this was a gross misuse of the surveillance laws and those responsible should themselves be investigated by the police. One of the worst aspects is that we are not told who the spies were or what qualifications they possessed for this kind of furtive, private-eye activity. Furthermore, surely someone who spied on a child could be arrested as a paedeophile?
We are now the most spied-on nation in Europe, with more CCTV cameras than any other, we have thousands of petty, prying little busybodies who are legally allowed to enter our homes and we are threatened with totally unnecessary ID cards.
All dictators know that the way to enslave a nation is to take away its freedoms little by little, so that people don’t notice. This is what is happening, as foreseen by George Orwell in his iconic novel “1984”. 1984 is now with us and Britain is well on the way to becoming the new Soviet Union, East Germany or Third Reich.
Posted by: Roy Stockdill at 9:42pm on Sun 13 Apr 08
You may think that is a joke, but this is how totalitarian states begin to take shape. Little by little, people's freedoms are eroded and the state and its tools gradually take control of the lives of its citizens. Why do you think the government wants everyone put onto a gigantic national database and to issue us all with ID cards? To protect us? Don't make me laugh! It is so that they know where we are and what we are doing at all times. It is to build up a dossier on everybody, their habits and private lives. Whilst this may not currently be the intention, can you not see and understand what some future government might do with this information? And if surveillance laws passed originally to combat terrorism and serious crime can be used by jumped-up little jobsworths and mini-Hitlers in local councils to spy on innocent people, then where do you think we are headed?
You may think that is a joke, but this is how totalitarian states begin to take shape. Little by little, people's freedoms are eroded and the state and its tools gradually take control of the lives of its citizens. Why do you think the government wants everyone put onto a gigantic national database and to issue us all with ID cards? To protect us? Don't make me laugh! It is so that they know where we are and what we are doing at all times. It is to build up a dossier on everybody, their habits and private lives. Whilst this may not currently be the intention, can you not see and understand what some future government might do with this information? And if surveillance laws passed originally to combat terrorism and serious crime can be used by jumped-up little jobsworths and mini-Hitlers in local councils to spy on innocent people, then where do you think we are headed?
Posted by: The Plinth of Darkneth at 7:59pm on Tue 15 Apr 08
Roy, you are absolutely correct in your statement.
Incidentally, it's a little known fact that the high street retailer Tescos actually know more about the British population and their habitual behaviour than the government do.
How is this?
Well, every Tescos customer that has a Clubcard and uses it are, without their knowledge, being closely scrutinised by the retail giant.
Every transactional item that is scanned against your clubcard is stored onto their immense systems.
Using very clever and powerful software, Tesco are building intricate and detailed personal profiles of their customers and their spending habits.
For example, as a result of this process I can pretty much guarantee you that if you use a clubcard and purchased, over a certain period of time, large amounts of plant fertiliser, ammonia based cleaning products and other chemical based products, you will almost certainly become the subject of a covert surveillance program by the security forces.
Why? well, as you can guess, this would certainly be deemed as possible terrorist activity as they are the primary components of home made explosives(you only have to watch the news to figure that out).
Tesco has been the subject of many requests by the government to submit this kind of data in the interest of national security - I believe one case even went to the high courts.
Tesco analyse their clubcard customer's buying habits and use that information for strategic promotional purposes.
If a supermarket can have that kind of powerful data, god knows what the government have on each and every one of us.
Some people may read this and laugh, but believe me this is reality... just think about it.
Roy, you are absolutely correct in your statement.
Incidentally, it's a little known fact that the high street retailer Tescos actually know more about the British population and their habitual behaviour than the government do.
How is this?
Well, every Tescos customer that has a Clubcard and uses it are, without their knowledge, being closely scrutinised by the retail giant.
Every transactional item that is scanned against your clubcard is stored onto their immense systems.
Using very clever and powerful software, Tesco are building intricate and detailed personal profiles of their customers and their spending habits.
For example, as a result of this process I can pretty much guarantee you that if you use a clubcard and purchased, over a certain period of time, large amounts of plant fertiliser, ammonia based cleaning products and other chemical based products, you will almost certainly become the subject of a covert surveillance program by the security forces.
Why? well, as you can guess, this would certainly be deemed as possible terrorist activity as they are the primary components of home made explosives(you only have to watch the news to figure that out).
Tesco has been the subject of many requests by the government to submit this kind of data in the interest of national security - I believe one case even went to the high courts.
Tesco analyse their clubcard customer's buying habits and use that information for strategic promotional purposes.
If a supermarket can have that kind of powerful data, god knows what the government have on each and every one of us.
Some people may read this and laugh, but believe me this is reality... just think about it.
Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK.
I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents.
The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse.
I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK.
I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents.
The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse.
I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
[quote][bold]JohnBoy[/bold] wrote:
Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.[/quote] Were'nt these people INNOCENT and you are now slandering them by calling them GUILTY????
JohnBoy wrote:
Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
Were'nt these people INNOCENT and you are now slandering them by calling them GUILTY????
[quote][bold]jim sweeney[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]JohnBoy[/bold] wrote: Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.[/quote] Were'nt these people INNOCENT and you are now slandering them by calling them GUILTY????[/quote] That's right,those parents did nothing wrong,please get your facts right johnboy before you put your mouth into action
jim sweeney wrote:
JohnBoy wrote: Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
Were'nt these people INNOCENT and you are now slandering them by calling them GUILTY????
That's right,those parents did nothing wrong,please get your facts right johnboy before you put your mouth into action
[quote][bold]Seamus[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]jim sweeney[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]JohnBoy[/bold] wrote: Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.[/quote] Were'nt these people INNOCENT and you are now slandering them by calling them GUILTY????[/quote] That's right,those parents did nothing wrong,please get your facts right johnboy before you put your mouth into action[/quote] Have to agree with the last contributers johnboy, you are well off the mark, check your facts before you comment in future,
Seamus wrote:
jim sweeney wrote:
JohnBoy wrote: Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
Were'nt these people INNOCENT and you are now slandering them by calling them GUILTY????
That's right,those parents did nothing wrong,please get your facts right johnboy before you put your mouth into action
Have to agree with the last contributers johnboy, you are well off the mark, check your facts before you comment in future,
Posted by: Roy Stockdill at 10:37pm on Fri 18 Apr 08
[quote][bold]JohnBoy[/bold] wrote:
Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.[/quote] In a sense I half agree with you, JohnBoy, in that it is wrong for parents to try and fiddle the school admissions procedure. However, I should point out that in this particular case the Poole Council eventually came to the view that the couple had not committed any offence and they were exonerated.
However, it doesn't alter the fact that this was, in my view, a totally OTT misuse of powers that were granted for far more serious purposes,i.e. the prevention of terrorism and serious crime. What concerns me is the fact that somebody - and we shall probably never know who - "ratted" on this couple and reported them to the council, which then sent officers to spy on them. Is there not something rather insidiously nasty and un-British about people being encouraged to report the alleged and perceived crimes of their neighbours to the authorities? Isn't this precisely what Orwell wrote about in 1984? OK if you think your neighbour is an out-and-out criminal or benefits cheat, but it doesn't seem to me that wanting to get your child into a decent school quite falls within that category.
JohnBoy wrote:
Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
In a sense I half agree with you, JohnBoy, in that it is wrong for parents to try and fiddle the school admissions procedure. However, I should point out that in this particular case the Poole Council eventually came to the view that the couple had not committed any offence and they were exonerated.
However, it doesn't alter the fact that this was, in my view, a totally OTT misuse of powers that were granted for far more serious purposes,i.e. the prevention of terrorism and serious crime. What concerns me is the fact that somebody - and we shall probably never know who - "ratted" on this couple and reported them to the council, which then sent officers to spy on them. Is there not something rather insidiously nasty and un-British about people being encouraged to report the alleged and perceived crimes of their neighbours to the authorities? Isn't this precisely what Orwell wrote about in 1984? OK if you think your neighbour is an out-and-out criminal or benefits cheat, but it doesn't seem to me that wanting to get your child into a decent school quite falls within that category.
[quote][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]JohnBoy[/bold] wrote: Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.[/quote] In a sense I half agree with you, JohnBoy, in that it is wrong for parents to try and fiddle the school admissions procedure. However, I should point out that in this particular case the Poole Council eventually came to the view that the couple had not committed any offence and they were exonerated. However, it doesn't alter the fact that this was, in my view, a totally OTT misuse of powers that were granted for far more serious purposes,i.e. the prevention of terrorism and serious crime. What concerns me is the fact that somebody - and we shall probably never know who - "ratted" on this couple and reported them to the council, which then sent officers to spy on them. Is there not something rather insidiously nasty and un-British about people being encouraged to report the alleged and perceived crimes of their neighbours to the authorities? Isn't this precisely what Orwell wrote about in 1984? OK if you think your neighbour is an out-and-out criminal or benefits cheat, but it doesn't seem to me that wanting to get your child into a decent school quite falls within that category.[/quote] Thats half the problem roy, people like johnboy go off making allegations against INNOCENT people without CHECKING THE facts first.
Roy Stockdill wrote:
JohnBoy wrote: Roy, hope your wife is recovering OK. I think there are two points here. The first is that this couple attempted to deceive a school into admitting their child into the school. This kind of deception cannot be condoned and it is possible that many children are deprived their rightful place in a school as a result of the actions of cheating parents. The second point is that Poole Borough Council have abused their position of trust. The government has given council powers to combat terrorism and for them to use them to check up on where school applicants live is a clear abuse. I half agree with you Roy but I do not condone cheats or deceivers and this kind of thing should be made illegal.
In a sense I half agree with you, JohnBoy, in that it is wrong for parents to try and fiddle the school admissions procedure. However, I should point out that in this particular case the Poole Council eventually came to the view that the couple had not committed any offence and they were exonerated. However, it doesn't alter the fact that this was, in my view, a totally OTT misuse of powers that were granted for far more serious purposes,i.e. the prevention of terrorism and serious crime. What concerns me is the fact that somebody - and we shall probably never know who - "ratted" on this couple and reported them to the council, which then sent officers to spy on them. Is there not something rather insidiously nasty and un-British about people being encouraged to report the alleged and perceived crimes of their neighbours to the authorities? Isn't this precisely what Orwell wrote about in 1984? OK if you think your neighbour is an out-and-out criminal or benefits cheat, but it doesn't seem to me that wanting to get your child into a decent school quite falls within that category.
Thats half the problem roy, people like johnboy go off making allegations against INNOCENT people without CHECKING THE facts first.
My apologies, I should have said 'certain people', the couple in question were i believe entirely innocent.
The problem is that councils don't know at the outset if a family is cheating or not. If they are they deserve to be investigated if they're not they don't. How do you solve this problem?
My apologies, I should have said 'certain people', the couple in question were i believe entirely innocent.
The problem is that councils don't know at the outset if a family is cheating or not. If they are they deserve to be investigated if they're not they don't. How do you solve this problem?
[quote][bold]JohnBoy[/bold] wrote:
My apologies, I should have said 'certain people', the couple in question were i believe entirely innocent. The problem is that councils don't know at the outset if a family is cheating or not. If they are they deserve to be investigated if they're not they don't. How do you solve this problem?[/quote] apology accepted
JohnBoy wrote:
My apologies, I should have said 'certain people', the couple in question were i believe entirely innocent. The problem is that councils don't know at the outset if a family is cheating or not. If they are they deserve to be investigated if they're not they don't. How do you solve this problem?
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