What went wrong?
7:14am Friday 16th May 2008
Comments (100) Have your say »
Watford were nine points clear in the Championship at one stage this season and led it for almost four months. Yet their campaign ended with only one win from 16 matches and on Wednesday they missed out on the possibility of an instant return to the Premiership after losing the play-off semi-final against Hull City 6-1 on aggregate. So why did it go so wrong?
In today's printed edition of the Watford Observer you can read Kevin Affleck's thoughts on the Hornets' rollercoaster campaign, but we would like to know what you think were the reasons for the reversal in fortunes at Vicarage Road.
To have your say, use the comments facility below.
Your Say YourWatford
Dan, Watford says...
8:03am Fri 16 May 08
failure, not favour....doh.
Holly68, watford says...
8:33am Fri 16 May 08
Good post Dan !
I am hearing also that the proposed 'takeover' is on the rocks !!! The buyer is now looking at other clubs ....
I am hearing also that the proposed 'takeover' is on the rocks !!! The buyer is now looking at other clubs ....
Hexham Hornet, Hexham says...
8:44am Fri 16 May 08
The WFC website writes about a positive meeting between GS, MA and AB. It also has Jobi talking positively about the change in style. I am now looking with interest to see what is going to happen. Is a No2 going to come in? Are the backroom staff oing to be culled? Are the excess playing staff going to be sold or given a free transfer - if we can sell it will be better. We could do with some information about the plans and not just be told that there are plans. It seems as if WFC are going in for non-stories as well!!
wonderlander, wonderland says...
8:45am Fri 16 May 08
And one could add:
- the pursuit and signing of an unfit Collins John resulting in a misfiring strike force
- not playing to the players strengths, or put another way, not signing players suited to the hoof style
- the constant spin, self-congratulation, and raising of expectations - anything less than automatic promotion would be failure etc
- the rotation of captain, demoralisation of players such as DeMerit
- the Boardroom disharmony
- the destruction of the Club's ethos in so many ways
One could go on.....
But Kevin Affleck has written a strong, brave, and balanced piece. There is probably a lot more he knows and isn't saying.
- the pursuit and signing of an unfit Collins John resulting in a misfiring strike force
- not playing to the players strengths, or put another way, not signing players suited to the hoof style
- the constant spin, self-congratulation, and raising of expectations - anything less than automatic promotion would be failure etc
- the rotation of captain, demoralisation of players such as DeMerit
- the Boardroom disharmony
- the destruction of the Club's ethos in so many ways
One could go on.....
But Kevin Affleck has written a strong, brave, and balanced piece. There is probably a lot more he knows and isn't saying.
Dan, Watford says...
8:50am Fri 16 May 08
Thanks Holly.
I think the next move is to get someone in to replace Keith's massive influence, Malky is quite simply not in a position to step up to coach status - we need a wealth of experience of the game, not someone who's just finished playing (with respect).
I think Premiership season long lones is the way to go next season, we need that pace back in the side, and we should never revert to the last 4 years playing tactics - The "Watford" way of playing football, has been found out now and global changes in tactics with a massive dose of speed in the playing staff is required.
And I'm sorry to say this in a way, but bite the bullet on Ellington and let him go, for whatever the reason he's just not going to make it at Watford.
Richard Lee's time is also up I'm afraid - he's been a first team player for a very long time now, and he's just not making the grade in my opinion - sorry.
I think the next move is to get someone in to replace Keith's massive influence, Malky is quite simply not in a position to step up to coach status - we need a wealth of experience of the game, not someone who's just finished playing (with respect).
I think Premiership season long lones is the way to go next season, we need that pace back in the side, and we should never revert to the last 4 years playing tactics - The "Watford" way of playing football, has been found out now and global changes in tactics with a massive dose of speed in the playing staff is required.
And I'm sorry to say this in a way, but bite the bullet on Ellington and let him go, for whatever the reason he's just not going to make it at Watford.
Richard Lee's time is also up I'm afraid - he's been a first team player for a very long time now, and he's just not making the grade in my opinion - sorry.
nvb2, Upper Rous says...
9:00am Fri 16 May 08
Rewarding failure by giving Boothroyd an improved contract after relegation gave him a comfort zone that he never got out of all season.
Now that he has failed this season and under pressure from the fans he may rediscover the desire that he had in 05/06, but during the past season he merely coasted along convinced that everything that he did was right.
Now that he has failed this season and under pressure from the fans he may rediscover the desire that he had in 05/06, but during the past season he merely coasted along convinced that everything that he did was right.
Hemel, Hemel says...
9:07am Fri 16 May 08
Well said Dan, now this may sound daft l know, but l do not think to wear a stuffy office suit and tie, is a way of getting good 2 way contact with players, if the gaffer is dolled up like an office boy, sports wear would create a better sporty atmosphere the players can relate with.its a physiological thing.
SIMMO, BUCKS says...
9:14am Fri 16 May 08
Hexham Hornet wrote:Funny that , a positive meeting between the three problem areas at our club ,they are not accountable ,they just say i will look after you ,you look after me ,THE chairman is in my view accountable ,we are now faced with headline in WO today of WE MUST SELL BEFORE WE CAN BUY ,that is rank bad management by the board and the buck stops with the chairman GOD KNOWS WHAT THEY WILL PAY THEMSELVES FOR FAILURE THIS TIME
The WFC website writes about a positive meeting between GS, MA and AB. It also has Jobi talking positively about the change in style. I am now looking with interest to see what is going to happen. Is a No2 going to come in? Are the backroom staff oing to be culled? Are the excess playing staff going to be sold or given a free transfer - if we can sell it will be better. We could do with some information about the plans and not just be told that there are plans. It seems as if WFC are going in for non-stories as well!!
TIME TO RESIGN !
Winston, watford says...
9:15am Fri 16 May 08
wonderlander wrote:thats it in a nut shell not playing to the players strengths - only the AB way!
And one could add: - the pursuit and signing of an unfit Collins John resulting in a misfiring strike force - not playing to the players strengths, or put another way, not signing players suited to the hoof style - the constant spin, self-congratulation, and raising of expectations - anything less than automatic promotion would be failure etc - the rotation of captain, demoralisation of players such as DeMerit - the Boardroom disharmony - the destruction of the Club's ethos in so many ways One could go on..... But Kevin Affleck has written a strong, brave, and balanced piece. There is probably a lot more he knows and isn't saying.
Dan, Watford says...
9:22am Fri 16 May 08
I don't think buying players is the answer, sadly the gulf in talent is so vast between the Premiership and the Championship, whatever you buy in, from either lower league or championship clubs won't cut the mustard in the Premiership.
Premiership Loan players all the way for me.
Premiership Loan players all the way for me.
SIMMO, BUCKS says...
9:25am Fri 16 May 08
wonderlander wrote:GREAT POST wonderland spot on and yes a lot more known in my opinion ,congrats to Affleck for the article ,AND it just shows the RUSSO'S were right JIMMY/VINCE for chairman/Deputy , GT on the board ,member of the trust on board maybe a couple more LET'S get our club BACK !
And one could add: - the pursuit and signing of an unfit Collins John resulting in a misfiring strike force - not playing to the players strengths, or put another way, not signing players suited to the hoof style - the constant spin, self-congratulation, and raising of expectations - anything less than automatic promotion would be failure etc - the rotation of captain, demoralisation of players such as DeMerit - the Boardroom disharmony - the destruction of the Club's ethos in so many ways One could go on..... But Kevin Affleck has written a strong, brave, and balanced piece. There is probably a lot more he knows and isn't saying.
Dan, Watford says...
9:29am Fri 16 May 08
Getting our club back, as you put it, involves a buyer, with very deep pockets and the ability to move it forward. Anything else could result in a Luton-like reverse.
Conspiracy theories are just so 'Dianna'.
Conspiracy theories are just so 'Dianna'.
peter parker, the big apple says...
9:31am Fri 16 May 08
In my oppinion its as simple as doing the same thing week in week out but never having a good plan B when it doesnt work.
We got found out with our style of play and did not change it soon enough.
Next season we need to see some better football and soem variety in our play ...
To blaim Aidy for the loss of players by some fans is a joke, in this day and age its impossible to keep your best players if you are a small club, and mark my words it is going to happen again. 2 and in some cases 1 good season of performances by any one player is the best we can hope for before someone unsettles the player and offers big bucks. Young was always going to go at the price we got for him and its understandable any player wanting to play at a higher level like Aston villa with the potential of Europe etc.
I think Marlon could have shown a little bit ff loyalty to the club that stuck by him whilst he was injured and dragged his career out of the dodldrums, at least if he stayed till the end of the season and helped with the promotion push. He would of done himself far better playing in watfords first team then sitting on Wigans subs bench ! He could have still got a good move at the end of the season but it seems greed always comes into it in the end ..
There is no way Aidy should be sacked, but I do feel he has got his toughest season in front of him. Not all the fans are behind him and the style and results were awful for the second half of the season. He has however done a great job in the past and should be given a fair chance to right some of the wrongs.
My dream is for us to have a wonderfull season with a new attacking style of play and then to have the boo boys come on here and personally apologise for their lack of patience and unnecessary abuse they have dealt out to the true "live and die" supporters and Aidy Boothroyd ... You know who you are !
I know its unlikely but I always look for the positives in everything ... All the best to you all for the summer and I look forward to the ongoing banter next season ...
We got found out with our style of play and did not change it soon enough.
Next season we need to see some better football and soem variety in our play ...
To blaim Aidy for the loss of players by some fans is a joke, in this day and age its impossible to keep your best players if you are a small club, and mark my words it is going to happen again. 2 and in some cases 1 good season of performances by any one player is the best we can hope for before someone unsettles the player and offers big bucks. Young was always going to go at the price we got for him and its understandable any player wanting to play at a higher level like Aston villa with the potential of Europe etc.
I think Marlon could have shown a little bit ff loyalty to the club that stuck by him whilst he was injured and dragged his career out of the dodldrums, at least if he stayed till the end of the season and helped with the promotion push. He would of done himself far better playing in watfords first team then sitting on Wigans subs bench ! He could have still got a good move at the end of the season but it seems greed always comes into it in the end ..
There is no way Aidy should be sacked, but I do feel he has got his toughest season in front of him. Not all the fans are behind him and the style and results were awful for the second half of the season. He has however done a great job in the past and should be given a fair chance to right some of the wrongs.
My dream is for us to have a wonderfull season with a new attacking style of play and then to have the boo boys come on here and personally apologise for their lack of patience and unnecessary abuse they have dealt out to the true "live and die" supporters and Aidy Boothroyd ... You know who you are !
I know its unlikely but I always look for the positives in everything ... All the best to you all for the summer and I look forward to the ongoing banter next season ...
perrystopsucklingme, lowestoft says...
9:34am Fri 16 May 08
A negative feeling amongst certain sections of the fans - largely fueled by the WO hasn't helped.
shame, radlett says...
9:35am Fri 16 May 08
Holly68, Please substantiate your comments regarding the take over! or did you hear it your in sleep!
wonderlander, wonderland says...
9:40am Fri 16 May 08
Dan wrote:Dan, you have a point but I don't think loan players are the answer. Why, they get recalled, like Johnson, or progress like Foster. Spotting talent and developing young players, supplemented by Premiership cast-offs (like Beattie), is I think the better option.But it does take time, involve risks, and a good coaching staff.
I don't think buying players is the answer, sadly the gulf in talent is so vast between the Premiership and the Championship, whatever you buy in, from either lower league or championship clubs won't cut the mustard in the Premiership.
Premiership Loan players all the way for me.
Dan, Watford says...
9:45am Fri 16 May 08
wonderland, sure I see your points - of course when I refer to loan players, I'm talking about those that come without recall clauses.
How annoying was it to see Johnson sat on the bench week in, week out for Boro' getting 2 minutes here and there, when he was pulling up trees for us at Watford - sickening.
How annoying was it to see Johnson sat on the bench week in, week out for Boro' getting 2 minutes here and there, when he was pulling up trees for us at Watford - sickening.
yellowarmy2008, says...
9:50am Fri 16 May 08
I think Malky Mackay should be a player/coach and we should get a experienced Assitant Manager in as well. We should get Adam Johnson again becuase he doesn't have a chance at Middlesborough.
mark, dunstable says...
9:51am Fri 16 May 08
there have been some excellent comments on here today, much more than the usual knee-jerk reaction and name calling.
Boothroyd made some awful decisions this year. First one was dropping and shipping out Gavin - made worse by fans booing him. some of you have to take blame also.
loss of johnson and marlon was bad, mostly due to lack of belief by players that they couldnt do it without them.
But then even with them we didnt look like the team of 2 yrs ago.
marlon really annoyed me with his attitude, clearing off at the 1st opportunity after a year injured. no loyalty, ****.
boothroyds spin and silly expectations - his captaincy rotation, just stupid and unsettling. Only Shittu really upped his game with it and cared, but at the expense of others unsettled.
the subbing decisions and selection was baffling at times.
The booing of jordan was sad to see, particularly as sadlers crossing ha been worse, but not much has been said about that.
the last 2 games i've been to though - hull, have been encouraging in terms of style and commitment. Silly mistakes have cost us but dont slate the boys involved too much. Lee has made only a few errors this season, mostly he has kept us in games and performed well. He cares about the club and we need more of them, not less.
Demerit has been unlucky not to be in the team and has been completely unsettled, no wonder he's not at the top of his game.
My opinion would be to get rid of some of the back room staff, we have far too many, get an experienced ****.manager, tell Boothroyd to start listening to people, stop him talking to media!, get rid of players that dont give a monkeys, whoever they are, and keep the players who do, whoever they are. Yes, even if it means a nucleus of Lee, doyley etc.
Boothroyd made some awful decisions this year. First one was dropping and shipping out Gavin - made worse by fans booing him. some of you have to take blame also.
loss of johnson and marlon was bad, mostly due to lack of belief by players that they couldnt do it without them.
But then even with them we didnt look like the team of 2 yrs ago.
marlon really annoyed me with his attitude, clearing off at the 1st opportunity after a year injured. no loyalty, ****.
boothroyds spin and silly expectations - his captaincy rotation, just stupid and unsettling. Only Shittu really upped his game with it and cared, but at the expense of others unsettled.
the subbing decisions and selection was baffling at times.
The booing of jordan was sad to see, particularly as sadlers crossing ha been worse, but not much has been said about that.
the last 2 games i've been to though - hull, have been encouraging in terms of style and commitment. Silly mistakes have cost us but dont slate the boys involved too much. Lee has made only a few errors this season, mostly he has kept us in games and performed well. He cares about the club and we need more of them, not less.
Demerit has been unlucky not to be in the team and has been completely unsettled, no wonder he's not at the top of his game.
My opinion would be to get rid of some of the back room staff, we have far too many, get an experienced ****.manager, tell Boothroyd to start listening to people, stop him talking to media!, get rid of players that dont give a monkeys, whoever they are, and keep the players who do, whoever they are. Yes, even if it means a nucleus of Lee, doyley etc.
WD18Firm, Watford says...
9:53am Fri 16 May 08
If the team were capable of changing their style of play for the last two games why on earth wasn't it done sooner...
Like back in December when the wheels of the hoof style were already well and truly off the cart.
Aidy kept the style the same, despite howls of derision for months from the home support.
His decision.
His responsibility.
No hiding place.
The fact that the team showed they CAN play a passing game makes his stubborness all the more galling.
Bring in John Ward. It will save us from a painful Autumn.
Like back in December when the wheels of the hoof style were already well and truly off the cart.
Aidy kept the style the same, despite howls of derision for months from the home support.
His decision.
His responsibility.
No hiding place.
The fact that the team showed they CAN play a passing game makes his stubborness all the more galling.
Bring in John Ward. It will save us from a painful Autumn.
mark, dunstable says...
9:54am Fri 16 May 08
strange, i only abbreviated assistant manager to a.s.s.manager and it thinks i'm swearing!
Dollyhat, Stevenage says...
10:00am Fri 16 May 08
When we were flying high I remember seeing Brian Laws the Sheffield Wed manager in the upper Rous. One one our group asked him what he thought of Watford. His reply was short and to the point 'Effective but predictable'. How true he was. We got found out good and proper with no alternative to our style.In addition lets face it when we were 9 points clear we never looked convincing especially at home.Having attended both play off games v Hull I believe we played the better football. I d'ont want short term premiership football. I want to go up playing the passing game with a realistic chance of staying up.I am already looking forward to next season in what will remain a very competitive league.
JimBob, Watford says...
10:30am Fri 16 May 08
In my opinion the problem was that Aidy made a couple of duff signings last summer and maybe placed a little too much faith in average players (Lee, Doyley, Mahon, Willo, Hendo) to do the business. I see no problem with the CJ signing (nothing to lose, would have been zero complaints if it had come off) or the tactics generally.
For what it's worth I think Aidy would have realised his mistake by late last autumn but the modern game makes it impossible to rectify with transfer windows and bigger squads needed at higher levels. So he had to stick with it and hope the cards fell our way. They didn't. People may think he's stupid or stubborn because of his comments in the media but what else was he likely to say - "It's all gone wrong so I'm just trying to nurse this lot through 'til next summer for a proper clear-out". Unlikely!
Other things that went wrong include some players getting too big for their boots (Stewart, Demerit) and a very vocal minority deciding to boo the team even when we were flying high. Both are indefensible in my book.
A lack of players who win you matches cost us overall. We had a glimpse of one in AJ but he was taken from us. That's life I guess.
For next season I'd like to see a decent assistant or director of football brought in to assist with transfers and a couple of match winning risk taking players brought in to replace the slow and steady crew. As for the takeover, Holly68, I couldn't care less. We have a proper fan in charge now.
For what it's worth I think Aidy would have realised his mistake by late last autumn but the modern game makes it impossible to rectify with transfer windows and bigger squads needed at higher levels. So he had to stick with it and hope the cards fell our way. They didn't. People may think he's stupid or stubborn because of his comments in the media but what else was he likely to say - "It's all gone wrong so I'm just trying to nurse this lot through 'til next summer for a proper clear-out". Unlikely!
Other things that went wrong include some players getting too big for their boots (Stewart, Demerit) and a very vocal minority deciding to boo the team even when we were flying high. Both are indefensible in my book.
A lack of players who win you matches cost us overall. We had a glimpse of one in AJ but he was taken from us. That's life I guess.
For next season I'd like to see a decent assistant or director of football brought in to assist with transfers and a couple of match winning risk taking players brought in to replace the slow and steady crew. As for the takeover, Holly68, I couldn't care less. We have a proper fan in charge now.
realist, MK says...
10:49am Fri 16 May 08
JimBob,
Good post and I agree with most of that except for the tactics. I think they could and should have been changed when we were losing every week...after all, it couldn't get worse than 0 points per game could it?! The players were capable of changing as shown in the play offs. I agree on the rest of your post though, the booing is terrible, especially during games and especially when we were top 6 all season. Maybe AJ staying for another couple of months as origianlly planned would have kept us well clear and maybe in turn that would have kept Marlon there until the end of the season? We'll never know. Takeover? Unless someone is going to come in and throw mega-bucks at everything what is the point. He has his faults but as you say at least the chairman is/was a fan and we are fairly sure there will be no return to the post Vialli fiasco...I'd rather have a club to support in this league than no club at all -I am NOT going to watch Franchise FC at the DullDome in MK!! Not sure on Director of Football but agree that Aidy need assistance....rememb
er that when Taylor came 1st time he had the old man Bertie Mee with him to tell him what to do if he got stuck. AB hasn't had that since KB left.
Looking forward to next season, proper football and us as the underdog again, where we do best and enjoy it most! You 'oooooooorns!
Good post and I agree with most of that except for the tactics. I think they could and should have been changed when we were losing every week...after all, it couldn't get worse than 0 points per game could it?! The players were capable of changing as shown in the play offs. I agree on the rest of your post though, the booing is terrible, especially during games and especially when we were top 6 all season. Maybe AJ staying for another couple of months as origianlly planned would have kept us well clear and maybe in turn that would have kept Marlon there until the end of the season? We'll never know. Takeover? Unless someone is going to come in and throw mega-bucks at everything what is the point. He has his faults but as you say at least the chairman is/was a fan and we are fairly sure there will be no return to the post Vialli fiasco...I'd rather have a club to support in this league than no club at all -I am NOT going to watch Franchise FC at the DullDome in MK!! Not sure on Director of Football but agree that Aidy need assistance....rememb
er that when Taylor came 1st time he had the old man Bertie Mee with him to tell him what to do if he got stuck. AB hasn't had that since KB left.
Looking forward to next season, proper football and us as the underdog again, where we do best and enjoy it most! You 'oooooooorns!
Dave, Holborn says...
10:52am Fri 16 May 08
Id be more than happy if next season is one of consolidation, which enables us to bring through some of our younger players without the pressure of promotion or relegation. I know that this would mean losing the parachute money for the following season but, judging by what is in the WO this morning, this £11.5m is unlikely to be made available to the manager next season anyway, so why worry?
Aidy hinted some weeks ago that Scott Loach would be no.1 'keeper next year if we were still in the championship which will strengthen us, if the reviews he has received at Bradford are accurate. Trouble is, several prem clubs are already circling so we may not have him for long.
I'm encouraged to hear that we may be varying our style and that should suit the likes of Smith, Macanuff, Ainsworth, Williams (if fit)and Theo.
Finally, at the risk of being shot down, I think we said goodbye to promotion the day we sold Marlon, without bringing in an adequate replacement. I know he wanted to leave but, if only he could have been persuaded to stay just until the end of the season, then I'm sure even an unhappy Marlon would have scored the half-dozen or so goals which would have made the difference.
Aidy hinted some weeks ago that Scott Loach would be no.1 'keeper next year if we were still in the championship which will strengthen us, if the reviews he has received at Bradford are accurate. Trouble is, several prem clubs are already circling so we may not have him for long.
I'm encouraged to hear that we may be varying our style and that should suit the likes of Smith, Macanuff, Ainsworth, Williams (if fit)and Theo.
Finally, at the risk of being shot down, I think we said goodbye to promotion the day we sold Marlon, without bringing in an adequate replacement. I know he wanted to leave but, if only he could have been persuaded to stay just until the end of the season, then I'm sure even an unhappy Marlon would have scored the half-dozen or so goals which would have made the difference.
Holly68, watford says...
11:27am Fri 16 May 08
shame wrote:Those that know my posts know I dont need to substantiate them :-)
Holly68, Please substantiate your comments regarding the take over! or did you hear it your in sleep!
The buyer has pulled out, I am not sure of the details yet ....
maybe £35M was too much as the Watfords stock is only valued at £14M, maybe cos we didnt get promoted, I really dont know at this stage.
What it does mean is that Simpson cant get his money out and return to just being a fan in the rookery, the Russo's cant release their money to invest elsewhere, and that Ashton cant get a big pay out as he is already seeking a move (ala Charlton) and it means we will probably have to put up with Boothroyd for another season, as money so tight, no room for pay off's, once we have had to pay off Poom, Jackson, Rinaldi,Kabba, Francis, Williams etc etc, whilst trying to sell Lee, Demerit, Shittu, Doyley, Ellington, Henderson, if we get circa £8M for that lot, lose £2M in pay offs (as some staff will be ousted too), so we will be left with £6M to invest in players or offset against other debts ??
Peter Phillips, Loudwater says...
11:46am Fri 16 May 08
The tactics on the field have been bad - you don't have to balloon the ball to succeed in this division (see WBA).The tactics off the field have been bad. Most of the players bought have just not been good enough, or value for money (see Ellington). The rotation of captains has been plainly daft and demoralising (see Demerit). The attempt to hold on to a 1-0 lead by taking off a striker and bringing on a defender did not work (see the number of draws this season). Not replacing Burkenshaw and using Bassett as a sounding board showed stupidity. However, I would not sack AB! He should have learnt by his mistakes, so let's give him till early November and see whether he has.
andy, oxhey says...
12:09pm Fri 16 May 08
I think a serious number two adds balance - but only if the number 1 wants to listen. Personally I would get in someone who knows the Championship and can help coach where we are weak. I know the goals have dried up, but frankly the defence has often been shambolic, too many changes to the fullbacks. If they were better drilled they would be better as a unit regardless of who the 4 are on the day. George Graham built a side on a solid defence, and i think this is the way clubs with small squads need to go. Hull have a Brian Horton type - we need that sort of character at watfoerd
nb, surrey says...
12:41pm Fri 16 May 08
If we're keeping Aidy and changing our style and won't pay for an established no.2 why not bring Kevin Phillips back home to finish his playing career where he started out - and give him the assistant managers role. He was the class act of the Championship and that kind of deal may just be tempting enough for him and very good business for us. The permutations are then endless and we can then plan to play exciting football and get rid of the dross.
Swordcurtana, Milton Keynes says...
1:30pm Fri 16 May 08
Where did it go wrong? Our season was unfortunately back-to-front.
You see, if we'd commenced the season with the indifferent form that we ended it with, most supporters would have half-expected this scenario. It would have been consistent with the way we ended life in the Premiership the season before.
Then, if we could have ended this season with the form that we began it with, everyone would, at this point, be cheering Aidy as the best manager in existance.
So Aidy, yes, it's all your fault. You should have lost matches at the START of the season and then warmed up with more and more wins. So, next year you'll know what to do, okay?
Heavens above, give the guy a break!! We DID make the play-offs and every **** Watford supporter would have settled for that before the season began!
You see, if we'd commenced the season with the indifferent form that we ended it with, most supporters would have half-expected this scenario. It would have been consistent with the way we ended life in the Premiership the season before.
Then, if we could have ended this season with the form that we began it with, everyone would, at this point, be cheering Aidy as the best manager in existance.
So Aidy, yes, it's all your fault. You should have lost matches at the START of the season and then warmed up with more and more wins. So, next year you'll know what to do, okay?
Heavens above, give the guy a break!! We DID make the play-offs and every **** Watford supporter would have settled for that before the season began!
annie, hemel says...
1:43pm Fri 16 May 08
Well said Mark, Dunstable, re. your positive comment about Richard Lee and his overall performances this season which , sadly, all seem to have now been totally forgotten. He's had a decent season, he is Watford through and through and if you look at his own website he'd already taken personal responsibility by first thing yesterday morning for the calamity. He wasn't the only one for whom the Play Off semis weren't their finest hours but he seems to have suddenly become public enemy no. 1!
annie, hemel says...
1:47pm Fri 16 May 08
Well said Mark, Dunstable, re. your positive comment about Richard Lee and his overall performances this season which , sadly, all seem to have now been totally forgotten. He's had a decent season, he is Watford through and through and if you look at his own website he'd already taken personal responsibility by first thing yesterday morning for the calamity. He wasn't the only one for whom the Play Off semis weren't their finest hours but he seems to have suddenly become public enemy no. 1!
KL massive, Kings Langley says...
1:50pm Fri 16 May 08
Dear Swordcurtana:
Not many here wanting to give Aidy the benefit but I am one. Made loads of strange decisions and transfer dealing iffy but overall he has done well...certainly well enough to earn a chance next season. I am starting to believe the knockers on here enjoy moaning...and if its not Aidy it would be his replacement? I like alternative views and debate but these chaps appear very singleminded.
I guess we are all fans and want WFC to do well but I find it hard to identify with such hostility to our manager when he has already achieved much.
Just my opinion of course.
Not many here wanting to give Aidy the benefit but I am one. Made loads of strange decisions and transfer dealing iffy but overall he has done well...certainly well enough to earn a chance next season. I am starting to believe the knockers on here enjoy moaning...and if its not Aidy it would be his replacement? I like alternative views and debate but these chaps appear very singleminded.
I guess we are all fans and want WFC to do well but I find it hard to identify with such hostility to our manager when he has already achieved much.
Just my opinion of course.
Professor Plum, The Billiard Room says...
1:55pm Fri 16 May 08
We DID make the play-offs and every **** Watford supporter would have settled for that before the season began!
Probably, until Hoofers stated openly that anything other than automatic promotion would be a failure....
One of the many times he opened his gob to spout utter cr ap.
luther67, watford says...
2:15pm Fri 16 May 08
KL, surely you know by now that there are a small - but tediously persistent - band of moaners who dominate this board and take massive delight in pouring vitriol on Boothroyd and the club in general, with seemingly no regard for his longer term record at the club. Not sure who they think would take over, and quite why they think that Watford have a divine right to be in the Premier League but it keeps them happy so probably best to leave them to it while the rest of us engage in a slightly more reasoned debate.
mitch, kings langley says...
2:38pm Fri 16 May 08
luther
and 'BOOO' to you too!!
and 'BOOO' to you too!!
luther67, watford says...
2:55pm Fri 16 May 08
Sorry Mitch!
JimBob, Watford says...
3:19pm Fri 16 May 08
Peter Phillips wrote:Like it or not our best form coincided with Bassett's advisory sessions with Aidy. Once his retainer ended and he went to help out Leeds our form plummeted. Asking Bassett to advise him seemed on the face of it to be a stupid thing to do but results say different!
The tactics on the field have been bad - you don't have to balloon the ball to succeed in this division (see WBA).The tactics off the field have been bad. Most of the players bought have just not been good enough, or value for money (see Ellington). The rotation of captains has been plainly daft and demoralising (see Demerit). The attempt to hold on to a 1-0 lead by taking off a striker and bringing on a defender did not work (see the number of draws this season). Not replacing Burkenshaw and using Bassett as a sounding board showed stupidity. However, I would not sack AB! He should have learnt by his mistakes, so let's give him till early November and see whether he has.
BazzaHornet, Colchester says...
3:25pm Fri 16 May 08
There is one good point to take from the season and that was the form and desire shown by Henderson - and remember - Aidy tried to sell him!!
Hexham Hornet, Hexham says...
4:33pm Fri 16 May 08
Swordcurtana, KL, Luther and other like minded people. We are not all moaners, and we do not all want Aidy out or the club to be sold (even though I am a shareholder and would not object to receiving over twice the value of my shares). I think Aidy has done well over the time he has been with us, but like all people he has had a poor patch. His mistakes are readily highlighted here, but the moaners seem to forget the state the club was in before he arrived. He does need a strong influence who understands a variety of playing styles. Aidy is still learning his trade and this is his first poor run, but in the play-offs he came out of it positively. Forget the score and look at the way we played. We were unlucky not to score in the first leg, and on another day we might have had 3 or 4. If we had not messed up at the end of the 1st half of the second leg then the game would have been very different after half-time. We must keep it like that next season and work on cutting out the mistakes. We need 4 good central defenders who attack the ball and do not get caught out of position. The defence needs to be worked on, both in their own play and how they work as a unit - including the goalie. The goals will come if McAnuff, Smith, Ainsworth and whoever keep getting there crosses in throughout the season. Williams and Eustace will be the main force in midfield, with others covering for suspensions and injuries. It does not look too bad for next season. Keep Aidy and keep the faith.
chris, the vic says...
5:14pm Fri 16 May 08
Think it is simple where it went wrong.
AJ gave us a variety of attacking play , he went neither Smith nor McAnuff could replicate AJ's style of play even though they were two of our better players. Teams found us easy to defend against.
Aidy was reluctant to change the style , people looked on Darius as a prolific scorer...he isnt..King didnt like the style of play..Ellington wasnt suited to it, Johns was never fit, Aidy fell out with Mahon and we slumped. The Home fans struggled with a couple of notable exceptions to get behind the team etc
Next year it will be different, we wont think we are better than we are, the cockiness from AB and the team will have diminished and we will be better and more successful as a result...we have all been taken down a peg or two and like the baggies we will rise to the top
AJ gave us a variety of attacking play , he went neither Smith nor McAnuff could replicate AJ's style of play even though they were two of our better players. Teams found us easy to defend against.
Aidy was reluctant to change the style , people looked on Darius as a prolific scorer...he isnt..King didnt like the style of play..Ellington wasnt suited to it, Johns was never fit, Aidy fell out with Mahon and we slumped. The Home fans struggled with a couple of notable exceptions to get behind the team etc
Next year it will be different, we wont think we are better than we are, the cockiness from AB and the team will have diminished and we will be better and more successful as a result...we have all been taken down a peg or two and like the baggies we will rise to the top
mohican, sutton says...
5:40pm Fri 16 May 08
When the manager tells us we will play football next season, just about sums up what went wrong. Sack him. What an insult to hear him say that, are we mugs at this club, seems the board are stooges, i would love to be employed by them, increase my wages when one fails.....Happy days .
As for selling Danny, how dopey is that, he is our best player ok not the most skilled but great player( a winner).
Break arms if we get offers for most of other players who are worth something, i certainly would not buy any of them if i was manager, or even on freebie.
The only way to get quality side is through youth system, with a splattering of good pros with them.
First thing is get a goalkeeper, then right sided two footed defender ( enough said )...
Entice Tony Adams to be manager, or even Pat Rice then we would see some action here, they would blag quality players to our club for sure..
As for selling Danny, how dopey is that, he is our best player ok not the most skilled but great player( a winner).
Break arms if we get offers for most of other players who are worth something, i certainly would not buy any of them if i was manager, or even on freebie.
The only way to get quality side is through youth system, with a splattering of good pros with them.
First thing is get a goalkeeper, then right sided two footed defender ( enough said )...
Entice Tony Adams to be manager, or even Pat Rice then we would see some action here, they would blag quality players to our club for sure..
Scotshorn, Aberdeen says...
5:46pm Fri 16 May 08
WD18Firm wrote:Bring in John Ward - why? No disrespect to him, but his managerial career has mirrored his playing career - lower division teams with minimal success. His record this season almost mirrors AB's too - Carlisle spent a large chunk of the season in the automatic promotion spots, ended up in the play-offs, crashed out at first hurdle - sound familiar? The only difference of course was that they were a division lower - so what exactly would we gain?
If the team were capable of changing their style of play for the last two games why on earth wasn't it done sooner... Like back in December when the wheels of the hoof style were already well and truly off the cart. Aidy kept the style the same, despite howls of derision for months from the home support. His decision. His responsibility. No hiding place. The fact that the team showed they CAN play a passing game makes his stubborness all the more galling. Bring in John Ward. It will save us from a painful Autumn.
Sure AB made mistakes, but he has acknowledged that and acted upon it - admittedly too late to save this season but nevertheless, has actually taken positive steps. For that alone he deserves another chance at repeating the success of what was, afterall, only two years ago.
chris, hemel says...
6:15pm Fri 16 May 08
What went wrong?
1. Alan Johnson being called back early.
2. Getting rid of Gavin Mahon, and ending up using 5 different captains.
3. Letting your top goal scorer Marlon King leave after Xmas.
4. Losing Keith Burkinshaw and not listening to his advice.
5. Bringing in Colins John on loan with no medical.
6. Sacking your Chief Scout for disagreeing with your transfer policy.
7. Selection policy and Hoofball tactics (or lack of any alternative)
8. Being stuffed by WBA and not realizing the changes that needed to be made.
9. Not looking over the fence at Arsenals training sessions.
10. Not bringing in any loan players for the run-in.
11. Believing your own hype.
12. Losing the dressing room.
13. Having only 'YES' men on your training staff.
14. Never once playing Rinaldi.
15. Bringing in players like Jackson, Kabba, Hoskins, etc who are not good enough.
16. Spending £3.25m on Ellington and giving him 3 minutes per game.
17. Losing 4000 home supporters, who turned their backs on the play-off semi final
and so on and on and on..............
1. Alan Johnson being called back early.
2. Getting rid of Gavin Mahon, and ending up using 5 different captains.
3. Letting your top goal scorer Marlon King leave after Xmas.
4. Losing Keith Burkinshaw and not listening to his advice.
5. Bringing in Colins John on loan with no medical.
6. Sacking your Chief Scout for disagreeing with your transfer policy.
7. Selection policy and Hoofball tactics (or lack of any alternative)
8. Being stuffed by WBA and not realizing the changes that needed to be made.
9. Not looking over the fence at Arsenals training sessions.
10. Not bringing in any loan players for the run-in.
11. Believing your own hype.
12. Losing the dressing room.
13. Having only 'YES' men on your training staff.
14. Never once playing Rinaldi.
15. Bringing in players like Jackson, Kabba, Hoskins, etc who are not good enough.
16. Spending £3.25m on Ellington and giving him 3 minutes per game.
17. Losing 4000 home supporters, who turned their backs on the play-off semi final
and so on and on and on..............
JimBob, Watford says...
6:55pm Fri 16 May 08
There are a couple of people on here who seem to have some very quaint old-fashioned ideas about transfers. Mainly that if a player wants to go a club can just say no and that's the end of it.
Marlon went because he wanted to go. You don't hold on to players who are only going to have a negative influence. £4m was over the odds as well. And it'll be the same with Danny. If he wants to go, he goes. Contracts are irrelevant. I think we'll be able to hold out for £4m on a good day and I'd be happy with that. He's not all that!
Marlon went because he wanted to go. You don't hold on to players who are only going to have a negative influence. £4m was over the odds as well. And it'll be the same with Danny. If he wants to go, he goes. Contracts are irrelevant. I think we'll be able to hold out for £4m on a good day and I'd be happy with that. He's not all that!
4boys, Hemel hempstead says...
7:03pm Fri 16 May 08
We are not going to have a change of manager (I was hoping Paul Ince), so will have to get behind boothers lets just hope he can actually learn from this and last season. Myself I doubt it as he seems to only listen to his own advice and has sacked a lot of staff, and I fear a couple of our decent players will also pay for speaking out.
All those who think that only their opinions count should think about what has happened this season because one man couldn't or wouldn't listen to advice, we may still have kept Marlon till end of season if we had tried to play footbal earlier, and at least I would not have been so disillusioned with the season and would probably have got automatic promotion with his goals.
All those who think that only their opinions count should think about what has happened this season because one man couldn't or wouldn't listen to advice, we may still have kept Marlon till end of season if we had tried to play footbal earlier, and at least I would not have been so disillusioned with the season and would probably have got automatic promotion with his goals.
Winston, watford says...
7:31pm Fri 16 May 08
As for the future this scares me "Chairman Graham Simpson has told Boothroyd he must watch his budget, to work out 'where we can raise some money" - what about all that money sitting in the bank clearly from the chairmans comments this is not available?.
JimBob, Watford says...
7:37pm Fri 16 May 08
All those who think that only their opinions count should think about what has happened this season because one man couldn't or wouldn't listen to advice...
Says who? You? This is the thing - it's all unsubstanciated. No one knows what goes on on the training ground or in the dressing room. All these people 'sacked' have really gone on to great things. Cummins is out of work and Hockaday is back to coaching kids. Really proving Aidy wrong there!
Aidy's problem isn't subborness, it's inexperience. See what happens to the coaching staff this summer...
Says who? You? This is the thing - it's all unsubstanciated. No one knows what goes on on the training ground or in the dressing room. All these people 'sacked' have really gone on to great things. Cummins is out of work and Hockaday is back to coaching kids. Really proving Aidy wrong there!
Aidy's problem isn't subborness, it's inexperience. See what happens to the coaching staff this summer...
JimBob, Watford says...
7:42pm Fri 16 May 08
Winston wrote:There is no money! For goodness sake, it's not rocket science. What you earn from the Premiership goes back out the door again in increased wages and fees. People are deluding themselves if they think the Premiership is anything other than a cashcow when you stay there. Look at Charlton - skint and they were up for 8yrs. Reading are severely budgeting this summer. That's life at this level. There's nothing suss about it, it's just economies of scale.
As for the future this scares me "Chairman Graham Simpson has told Boothroyd he must watch his budget, to work out 'where we can raise some money" - what about all that money sitting in the bank clearly from the chairmans comments this is not available?.
Hopefully what we get in parachute payment this season will be diverted into finishing the stadium redevelopment off with the East Stand. Then some good will have come from our year up top.
Dan, Watford says...
8:01am Fri 16 May 08
1) The departure of Keith Burkinshaw.
2) Sale of Marlon King.
3) Loss of Adam Johnson.
4) The Hoof-it-forward tactics.
5) Failure of Nathan Ellington.
A mockery has been made of the clubs plan to be a top ten Premiership side, we had the makings of a superb side which went on the decline when Ashley Young was sold.
The pace and power and goals we had in the side were all sold off and replaced with dud players - is it REALLY any surprise the season was a spectacular favour, the can carriers - Adrian Boothroyd, Mark Ashton, Graham Simpson - You made some very poor decissions this year gentlemen.