Magistrates to hear arguments for bells at All Saints Church, Croxley Green

First published in News

Arguments for and against reinstating historic bells at All Saints Church in Croxley Green will be heard by magistrates early next year.

Hourly chimes have not rung out across the village since September 26 when the church in The Green was served with a noise abatement notice by Three Rivers District Council.

The silencing of the church bells prompted widespread anger across the community as it emerged the action had been taken in response to a single complaint from a resident.

The notice only requires the bells not to sound during night time hours but the historic mechanism is such that it cannot be set hourly so has had to be switched off completely.

Reverend Miriam Mugan thanked residents for their ongoing support which has included dozens of letters of support to the church.

The hearing at Watford Magistrates’ Court has been scheduled for 10am on Tuesday February 26.

Comments (17)

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5:57pm Fri 28 Dec 12

drunkenduck says...

Do hope the magistrates throw the case out and criticize the silly council & their actions! Bet if it was a nosy pub, the council wouldn't act unless these more then one single complaint from a resident.
Do hope the magistrates throw the case out and criticize the silly council & their actions! Bet if it was a nosy pub, the council wouldn't act unless these more then one single complaint from a resident. drunkenduck
  • Score: 0

10:10pm Fri 28 Dec 12

gusgreen says...

Total no brainer bells first and bells win!
Total no brainer bells first and bells win! gusgreen
  • Score: 0

7:13am Sat 29 Dec 12

Croxley Comet says...

Now what we need is the Magistrates Court full to bursting in the public gallery of the Court on the 26th Feb. Lets all show Three Rivers Council what we think of their noise abatement notice by supporting the Church and all those who have supported the campaign to re-instate the hourly chimes.
Now what we need is the Magistrates Court full to bursting in the public gallery of the Court on the 26th Feb. Lets all show Three Rivers Council what we think of their noise abatement notice by supporting the Church and all those who have supported the campaign to re-instate the hourly chimes. Croxley Comet
  • Score: 0

10:57am Sat 29 Dec 12

Wacko Jacko says...

What a waste if public funds this will be either for the Council or the Church or both. Whatever happened to common sense? If the complainer didn't like bells why move there in the first place? The Council deserve a kick up the pants for serving the notice in the first place and then choosing to defend their action in court.
What a waste if public funds this will be either for the Council or the Church or both. Whatever happened to common sense? If the complainer didn't like bells why move there in the first place? The Council deserve a kick up the pants for serving the notice in the first place and then choosing to defend their action in court. Wacko Jacko
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Sat 29 Dec 12

Nascot says...

By all accounts with only the one complaint, the 'against' arguments won't take long to hear.
By all accounts with only the one complaint, the 'against' arguments won't take long to hear. Nascot
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Sat 29 Dec 12

Razor Sharp says...

Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.
Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it. Razor Sharp
  • Score: 0

5:52pm Sat 29 Dec 12

LSC says...

Razor Sharp wrote:
Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.
Anyone could make that argument about anything though. What's wrong with rap music? You'd get used to it if I lived next door and blasted it out at all hours...
I think the Council were quite right to investigate, but came to the wrong conclusion, and I hope the bell will be restored soon or a compromise reached.
It really wouldn't cost a lot to employ a sound damping system at night for instance, but the resident complaining should pay for it.
[quote][p][bold]Razor Sharp[/bold] wrote: Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.[/p][/quote]Anyone could make that argument about anything though. What's wrong with rap music? You'd get used to it if I lived next door and blasted it out at all hours... I think the Council were quite right to investigate, but came to the wrong conclusion, and I hope the bell will be restored soon or a compromise reached. It really wouldn't cost a lot to employ a sound damping system at night for instance, but the resident complaining should pay for it. LSC
  • Score: 0

5:59pm Sat 29 Dec 12

Razor Sharp says...

LSC wrote:
Razor Sharp wrote:
Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.
Anyone could make that argument about anything though. What's wrong with rap music? You'd get used to it if I lived next door and blasted it out at all hours...
I think the Council were quite right to investigate, but came to the wrong conclusion, and I hope the bell will be restored soon or a compromise reached.
It really wouldn't cost a lot to employ a sound damping system at night for instance, but the resident complaining should pay for it.
Rather an extreme example, but I guess there might be some nexus if one recalls De La Soul's song 'ring, ring, ring'.
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Razor Sharp[/bold] wrote: Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.[/p][/quote]Anyone could make that argument about anything though. What's wrong with rap music? You'd get used to it if I lived next door and blasted it out at all hours... I think the Council were quite right to investigate, but came to the wrong conclusion, and I hope the bell will be restored soon or a compromise reached. It really wouldn't cost a lot to employ a sound damping system at night for instance, but the resident complaining should pay for it.[/p][/quote]Rather an extreme example, but I guess there might be some nexus if one recalls De La Soul's song 'ring, ring, ring'. Razor Sharp
  • Score: 0

6:31pm Sat 29 Dec 12

LSC says...

He he, perhaps it was, but you get the point I was making. The Council have a duty to investigate complaints; we'd all be up in arms quick enough on here if they didn't.
He he, perhaps it was, but you get the point I was making. The Council have a duty to investigate complaints; we'd all be up in arms quick enough on here if they didn't. LSC
  • Score: 0

6:53pm Sat 29 Dec 12

Razor Sharp says...

Of course. No argument there. I like bells, especially the Clock Tower in East Croydon.

De La Soul were good as well.
Of course. No argument there. I like bells, especially the Clock Tower in East Croydon. De La Soul were good as well. Razor Sharp
  • Score: 0

12:49am Mon 31 Dec 12

Aussie Hornet says...

LSC wrote:
Razor Sharp wrote:
Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.
Anyone could make that argument about anything though. What's wrong with rap music? You'd get used to it if I lived next door and blasted it out at all hours...
I think the Council were quite right to investigate, but came to the wrong conclusion, and I hope the bell will be restored soon or a compromise reached.
It really wouldn't cost a lot to employ a sound damping system at night for instance, but the resident complaining should pay for it.
Yes, they're called ear plugs!
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Razor Sharp[/bold] wrote: Crazy. What's wrong with bells? One gets used to them and they can be quite pleasant. The whole affair is a waste of public funds. It's the first I have heard of a single complaint triggering such a response from a District Council. I wonder who took the delegated decision and I wonder whether they will regret it.[/p][/quote]Anyone could make that argument about anything though. What's wrong with rap music? You'd get used to it if I lived next door and blasted it out at all hours... I think the Council were quite right to investigate, but came to the wrong conclusion, and I hope the bell will be restored soon or a compromise reached. It really wouldn't cost a lot to employ a sound damping system at night for instance, but the resident complaining should pay for it.[/p][/quote]Yes, they're called ear plugs! Aussie Hornet
  • Score: 0

7:50am Mon 31 Dec 12

garston tony says...

LSC wrote:
He he, perhaps it was, but you get the point I was making. The Council have a duty to investigate complaints; we'd all be up in arms quick enough on here if they didn't.
Common sense in this situation does say that the complaint shouldnt stand and all this is a waste of time and money.

However you have a point LSC, the law is there to protect all and due process has to be followed in all cases otherwise the consequences would be even greater travesties
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: He he, perhaps it was, but you get the point I was making. The Council have a duty to investigate complaints; we'd all be up in arms quick enough on here if they didn't.[/p][/quote]Common sense in this situation does say that the complaint shouldnt stand and all this is a waste of time and money. However you have a point LSC, the law is there to protect all and due process has to be followed in all cases otherwise the consequences would be even greater travesties garston tony
  • Score: 0

11:46am Mon 31 Dec 12

Razor Sharp says...

The reality is that there is enough discretion in the Law to lead to variations in treatment.

http://www.watford.g
ov.uk/ccm/navigation
/community-and-livin
g/pollution/pollutio
n-control---noise/
The reality is that there is enough discretion in the Law to lead to variations in treatment. http://www.watford.g ov.uk/ccm/navigation /community-and-livin g/pollution/pollutio n-control---noise/ Razor Sharp
  • Score: 0

11:51am Mon 31 Dec 12

Razor Sharp says...

Trust me, I've been down this route a number of times before.
Trust me, I've been down this route a number of times before. Razor Sharp
  • Score: 0

8:47pm Mon 31 Dec 12

Roy Stockdill says...

I wonder if this had been a complaint about a Muslim Mosque calling the faithful to prayer a dozen times a day and wailing "Praise be to Allah" and all that crap there would have been any response from the council? I suspect not because we all know that in this lunatic politically correct world of Britain today local councils are running scared of offending the Muslims.

As most people here know, I am a non-believer. However, the ringing of church bells has been a quintessential part of the British scene for centuries and anyone who doesn't like them should have thought twice before buying a house in the vicinity of a church.
I wonder if this had been a complaint about a Muslim Mosque calling the faithful to prayer a dozen times a day and wailing "Praise be to Allah" and all that crap there would have been any response from the council? I suspect not because we all know that in this lunatic politically correct world of Britain today local councils are running scared of offending the Muslims. As most people here know, I am a non-believer. However, the ringing of church bells has been a quintessential part of the British scene for centuries and anyone who doesn't like them should have thought twice before buying a house in the vicinity of a church. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

10:10am Wed 2 Jan 13

garston tony says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
I wonder if this had been a complaint about a Muslim Mosque calling the faithful to prayer a dozen times a day and wailing "Praise be to Allah" and all that crap there would have been any response from the council? I suspect not because we all know that in this lunatic politically correct world of Britain today local councils are running scared of offending the Muslims. As most people here know, I am a non-believer. However, the ringing of church bells has been a quintessential part of the British scene for centuries and anyone who doesn't like them should have thought twice before buying a house in the vicinity of a church.
No Roy, the principle remains the same. If you decide to move near a Mosque where there is a call to prayer then you cant then complain about it. Its no different to moving next to Heathrow and then complaining about noise from aircraft.

Another story with the same principle appeared last year, some new houses were built near a river or pond and the residents then complained about ducks and other birds that lived there loosening their bowels in the area and they actually asked for the birds to be shot to stop the problem!

The principle is if you move to an area where something that might disturb you already exists then that’s your problem, it was your choice to put yourself within its reach.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: I wonder if this had been a complaint about a Muslim Mosque calling the faithful to prayer a dozen times a day and wailing "Praise be to Allah" and all that crap there would have been any response from the council? I suspect not because we all know that in this lunatic politically correct world of Britain today local councils are running scared of offending the Muslims. As most people here know, I am a non-believer. However, the ringing of church bells has been a quintessential part of the British scene for centuries and anyone who doesn't like them should have thought twice before buying a house in the vicinity of a church.[/p][/quote]No Roy, the principle remains the same. If you decide to move near a Mosque where there is a call to prayer then you cant then complain about it. Its no different to moving next to Heathrow and then complaining about noise from aircraft. Another story with the same principle appeared last year, some new houses were built near a river or pond and the residents then complained about ducks and other birds that lived there loosening their bowels in the area and they actually asked for the birds to be shot to stop the problem! The principle is if you move to an area where something that might disturb you already exists then that’s your problem, it was your choice to put yourself within its reach. garston tony
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Wed 2 Jan 13

MarsLander says...

The bells have clearly driven the complainant mad. Unfortunately, TRDC never spotted that and went along with it.

As someone said before, where is the common sense? Clearly the council officer never acted proportionately and by his actions has caused a lot of discontent not to mention the hassle and costs involved in all this going to court.

A quiet word "Sorry mate, but unless you've been there longer than the church bells have been ringing you haven't got a leg to stand on" would have done the trick and put the madman in his place.

If you don't like church bells, live somewhere where there are none. Don't spoil it for everyone else.

The complainant should withdraw their complaint and this could all be dealt with sensibly and quickly.
The bells have clearly driven the complainant mad. Unfortunately, TRDC never spotted that and went along with it. As someone said before, where is the common sense? Clearly the council officer never acted proportionately and by his actions has caused a lot of discontent not to mention the hassle and costs involved in all this going to court. A quiet word "Sorry mate, but unless you've been there longer than the church bells have been ringing you haven't got a leg to stand on" would have done the trick and put the madman in his place. If you don't like church bells, live somewhere where there are none. Don't spoil it for everyone else. The complainant should withdraw their complaint and this could all be dealt with sensibly and quickly. MarsLander
  • Score: 0

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