Councillor urges restaurant customers to use Church Car Park (From Watford Observer)

Typical Martins Fib Dem double-speak, never thinks anything through, why doesn't he ever ensure his brain is engaged before putting pen to paper?

If people can park for free round the corner from a restaurant, why would they want to to walk almost a third of a mile (given the recent inclement weather, possibly in pouring rain) to pay to park?

A lack of joined-up thinking - planning on the fly, spin after-the-event.

Is Rabi Martins alright? Mentally I mean.

Only an idiot would think people would park in a paid-for car park when there is free street parking nearby.

And only an idiot would think that they would be influenced by the restaurant as to where to park.

Mr Martins, it's a free world (unless your party does something to change that) so people will do what they want.

You're either being disingenuous or you are a fool. Either way it's not a good sign to have you as a councillor.

Watford needs better. I would like to see the back of Old George, Old Peter, Rabi, The unpleasant Mr Sharpe, The unpleasant Cottrel and the Mayor who "wishes she could change things" but is powerless to do so.

That's a strange thing isn't it? The Mayor wishes she could do something different about Farm Terrace. She has complete control of the council, a whopping majority and councillors who will do and vote as they are told. If she can't change things then either they can't be changed, she is completely incompetent or she is a liar. Things can be changed, we know that, so which of the remaining two is she?

We need better in Watford. Much better. How that clown got to be Mayor and how she is acting is fast becoming a stain on the town of Watford.

Mars, why not walk the talk? If you are unhappy with the elected reps, best course of action is to stand for election yourself and have some influence that way. Far more effective than writing to the half dozen or so people like us who post these comments for each other's amusement. Go on I dare you!

The needs of residents in Central Watford, West Watford, off the St Albans Rd always seem to be an after thought when it comes to planning and licensing. They pay for residential parking permits which have no guarantees and far too often they're again forced to pay to park elsewhere.I'm sure an analysis of ward revenues would show that these areas subsidise expensive parking schemes in other parts of the town which have hemorrhaged the called 'neutral parking fund' with its reserves.WBC parking policy needs to be senstive to the needs of hard pressed residents who have to cope with an inflated night time economy.

Wacko Jacko wrote:
Mars, why not walk the talk? If you are unhappy with the elected reps, best course of action is to stand for election yourself and have some influence that way. Far more effective than writing to the half dozen or so people like us who post these comments for each other's amusement. Go on I dare you!

One or two radical Councillors will not make much of a difference; either they will be subsumed within the political 'Yes' culture of the Lib Dems or be ejected by the Conservatives. Being limited by Party machinery, peer pressure and codes of conduct, their influence is going to be extremely diluted/limited.

It's easy to see the number of contributors on this site, but not so easy to analyse how many people read the comments.

Some of use have no intention of running for Councillor precisely because of the limitations it would place on us, in particular on our freedom of speech.

It's easy to say "walk the talk", but in reality that will rarely happen as a Councillor.

correction: Some of us .....

Razor Sharp wrote:

Wacko Jacko wrote:
Mars, why not walk the talk? If you are unhappy with the elected reps, best course of action is to stand for election yourself and have some influence that way. Far more effective than writing to the half dozen or so people like us who post these comments for each other's amusement. Go on I dare you!

One or two radical Councillors will not make much of a difference; either they will be subsumed within the political 'Yes' culture of the Lib Dems or be ejected by the Conservatives. Being limited by Party machinery, peer pressure and codes of conduct, their influence is going to be extremely diluted/limited.

It's easy to see the number of contributors on this site, but not so easy to analyse how many people read the comments.

Some of use have no intention of running for Councillor precisely because of the limitations it would place on us, in particular on our freedom of speech.

It's easy to say "walk the talk", but in reality that will rarely happen as a Councillor.

What a wonderful new years resolution that could be!

I would not stand for any party that would insist I act in any particular way. I would insist in being my own man and I can guarantee I would not support the whole of any party manifesto nor would I lie or be evasive about what I thought.

Where a conflict of interests arose between party and beliefs/representing the people, I would insist on the choice being mine only to make.

In other words, I would need to be either an independent (seems like hard work without supporters to post stuff etc) or a party rebel.

Or I may set up a Watford party instead. One that works for the people of Watford rather than an ideology. It could pick and choose the best from all the parties and add its own.

Who's with me? Revolution in Watford?

Happy new year to all!

MarsLander wrote:

Razor Sharp wrote:

Wacko Jacko wrote:
Mars, why not walk the talk? If you are unhappy with the elected reps, best course of action is to stand for election yourself and have some influence that way. Far more effective than writing to the half dozen or so people like us who post these comments for each other's amusement. Go on I dare you!

One or two radical Councillors will not make much of a difference; either they will be subsumed within the political 'Yes' culture of the Lib Dems or be ejected by the Conservatives. Being limited by Party machinery, peer pressure and codes of conduct, their influence is going to be extremely diluted/limited.

It's easy to see the number of contributors on this site, but not so easy to analyse how many people read the comments.

Some of use have no intention of running for Councillor precisely because of the limitations it would place on us, in particular on our freedom of speech.

It's easy to say "walk the talk", but in reality that will rarely happen as a Councillor.

What a wonderful new years resolution that could be!

I would not stand for any party that would insist I act in any particular way. I would insist in being my own man and I can guarantee I would not support the whole of any party manifesto nor would I lie or be evasive about what I thought.

Where a conflict of interests arose between party and beliefs/representing the people, I would insist on the choice being mine only to make.

In other words, I would need to be either an independent (seems like hard work without supporters to post stuff etc) or a party rebel.

Or I may set up a Watford party instead. One that works for the people of Watford rather than an ideology. It could pick and choose the best from all the parties and add its own.

Who's with me? Revolution in Watford?

Happy new year to all!

The concept of an "Independent Watford" political grouping was floated several years ago with few takers. Given that the mainstream parties in Watford either, were always, or have evolved into mini-dictatorships perhaps changes that over-arching concept.

Given it's only the toadies that are left in in Watford politics, with a very few exceptions perhaps 2013 is the year for the Watford "Spring"

As the main man wrote:

Hasta la victoria siempre!

I'm perplexed as to why Cllr Martin has gotten stick for what he said. All he said was that the restaurant agreed to try and encourage its customers to use the paid parking rather than street parking and he hoped that they and other restaurants would honour the agreement/follow suit. Why is that worthy of abuse?

Human nature may be that people would rather park closer and for free, but Clrr Martin doesn’t control human nature does he!

It just seems that some people jump on any opportunity to have a go but haven't actually taken in or have ignored what has been said.

garston tony wrote:
I'm perplexed as to why Cllr Martin has gotten stick for what he said. All he said was that the restaurant agreed to try and encourage its customers to use the paid parking rather than street parking and he hoped that they and other restaurants would honour the agreement/follow suit. Why is that worthy of abuse?

Human nature may be that people would rather park closer and for free, but Clrr Martin doesn’t control human nature does he!

It just seems that some people jump on any opportunity to have a go but haven't actually taken in or have ignored what has been said.

For me it shows Cllr Martin to be a naive fool.

That is not a quality I look for in a councillor.

Watford needs better than that.

Harry Caine wrote:

MarsLander wrote:

Razor Sharp wrote:

Wacko Jacko wrote:
Mars, why not walk the talk? If you are unhappy with the elected reps, best course of action is to stand for election yourself and have some influence that way. Far more effective than writing to the half dozen or so people like us who post these comments for each other's amusement. Go on I dare you!

One or two radical Councillors will not make much of a difference; either they will be subsumed within the political 'Yes' culture of the Lib Dems or be ejected by the Conservatives. Being limited by Party machinery, peer pressure and codes of conduct, their influence is going to be extremely diluted/limited.

It's easy to see the number of contributors on this site, but not so easy to analyse how many people read the comments.

Some of use have no intention of running for Councillor precisely because of the limitations it would place on us, in particular on our freedom of speech.

It's easy to say "walk the talk", but in reality that will rarely happen as a Councillor.

What a wonderful new years resolution that could be!

I would not stand for any party that would insist I act in any particular way. I would insist in being my own man and I can guarantee I would not support the whole of any party manifesto nor would I lie or be evasive about what I thought.

Where a conflict of interests arose between party and beliefs/representing the people, I would insist on the choice being mine only to make.

In other words, I would need to be either an independent (seems like hard work without supporters to post stuff etc) or a party rebel.

Or I may set up a Watford party instead. One that works for the people of Watford rather than an ideology. It could pick and choose the best from all the parties and add its own.

Who's with me? Revolution in Watford?

Happy new year to all!

The concept of an "Independent Watford" political grouping was floated several years ago with few takers. Given that the mainstream parties in Watford either, were always, or have evolved into mini-dictatorships perhaps changes that over-arching concept.

Given it's only the toadies that are left in in Watford politics, with a very few exceptions perhaps 2013 is the year for the Watford "Spring"

As the main man wrote:

Hasta la victoria siempre!

The Watford spring? What an idea! (In fact, we had "one", before the council tore it down and built flats on it, but that's pretty standard practice for this council, tearing down useful things and making up some sob story about how the only alternative is housing.)

The thought of wave after wave of bombers flying over the Town Hall and hitting strategic targets to force the Liberals into submission is an attractive and amusing one. I suggest we take out the tea trolley first followed by the office which pays their wages and expenses. No surrender until Dotty and her husband have been deposed!

On a more serious note, from what I have heard the local Liberals and Labour party do seem to be mini dictatorships. I don't know enough about the Conservatives to comment although they clearly have their own problems with only one councillor.

It's not just the Liberals though. I imagine we would have a similar problem if Labour held the same majority, or the Tories, or any party. It's just unhealthy to have an effective dictatorship, even if it was democratically elected.

Mars perhaps you don't remember that Labour did rule at the town hall for over 30 years with a huge majority. There were pockets of opposition but they were re-elected time after time so they must have been doing something right.
As with the Lib Dems today there was no effective debate in the council chamber. The real debates went on behind closed doors in meetings of the Labour group (of councillors) and of Labour members in their branches. The big difference between then and now is that there were so many more active members of all the main political parties. Local party branches then often had more members than can be found in a whole constituency today. So whilst it is not correct to call them 'dictatorships' it is true that strong voices find it easier to sway opinion.
This decline in active members is not confined to political parties but is seen right across the voluntary sector. There are many reasons for it but one is the transfer of political power away from local and to central government. The result is that many people consider that all the time and energy required to achieve political success at local level is not justified by the very limited powers you stand to win. So the parties have a much smaller pool of talent to draw on when looking for candidates and the result is there for all to see.
The good news is that the parties remain democratic and present a manifesto (necessarily) built on compromise. If they were to allow a strong minded member to have his way regardless of the views of others that would not be democratic and would likely pave the way towards the very dictatorship that you condemn.

Mike, Councillor Meerabux should be aware of all the points you have raised. He is childishly using lots of login names to create debate.

Apologies to Garston Tony and Harry Caine.

My advice is just ignore him.

I'm warming to this idea of a 'Watford Independent Party', WIP has a nice crack to it. If the independents worked together surely they could overcome the lack of a party machine. Problem is they'd probably all disagree on policies and priorities. And where would Malcolm go then if he fell out with the WIPs? He'd have to be independent of the independents. All very entertaining but not sure what it has to do with helping residents in central ward solve their parking problems though.

There should be far more independents at local level. National parties deal with foreign policy, defence, immigration, income tax, the NHS, pensions, benefits, the Space program and so on.

Local politicians have no say in all that stuff! Local politicians decide whether we bulldoze a school and build a housing estate on it. Whether to spend money on the drains or the potholes, or both.
There is no Con, Lab, or Lib Dem policy of dealing with potholes in the road. If potholes are your main concern, then vote for the person who says they will address the problem. If they don't, vote them out. Who cares what colour scarf they are wearing?

Judging by the election material I have received I would say you are mistaken LSC.

The Liberal/Cons seem to have a policy that if a pothole is reported they go out en-mass and have their picture taken next to it.

I feel sorry for them as it is only a matter of time before one of them ends up falling in and disappearing without trace. And to be honest, who would miss them?

The funny thing is, as I understand it, potholes belong (as much as a hole, i.e. a lack of something can belong to anyone) to the county. So why then do Watford councillors go and stand next to them, report them to county and then take credit for fixing them as though they have rolled up their sleeves and filled it in themselves? They're not faking it are they? Heaven forfend!

Mars, I take your point but if you think Labour never did anything like that either...
The mess the Labour party got our country into, locally and nationally means I would never, ever, vote for them again in my lifetime.
Hence I'd like to see some independents talking about local issues.
They would get my interest.

Again, why is he a naïve fool Marslander? You're making flippant remarks but not backing them up.


As to Watford Springs wasn’t it built under a different regime, well before we had an elected mayor. And wasn’t it made so badly that it needed millions spent on it to make it safe to use. So wasn’t it the right decision to not throw more money at it but to say enough was enough? And yes it was a sad but probably wise loss and didn’t the current regime replace it with two, yes two new pools? I don’t think Dotty, and Im not a fan of hers, can be faulted for Watford Springs or for the provision of pools in the area.

LSC wrote:
Mars, I take your point but if you think Labour never did anything like that either...
The mess the Labour party got our country into, locally and nationally means I would never, ever, vote for them again in my lifetime.
Hence I'd like to see some independents talking about local issues.
They would get my interest.

LSC,

I couldn't agree with you more on this comment.

We need more independents or at least more independently-minded politicians, ones prepared to do what is in the interests of the people of Watford, not what is in the interests of their party or their re-election prospects.

garston tony wrote:
Again, why is he a naïve fool Marslander? You're making flippant remarks but not backing them up.


As to Watford Springs wasn’t it built under a different regime, well before we had an elected mayor. And wasn’t it made so badly that it needed millions spent on it to make it safe to use. So wasn’t it the right decision to not throw more money at it but to say enough was enough? And yes it was a sad but probably wise loss and didn’t the current regime replace it with two, yes two new pools? I don’t think Dotty, and Im not a fan of hers, can be faulted for Watford Springs or for the provision of pools in the area.

Tony,

I hope there is room in debate for a little levity. I recall Boris Johnson saying at the hustings that if he was elected "your wife's breasts would grow larger" yet I have never seen any studies to either prove or disprove the claim.

It was a play on the words "Watford Spring" which by co-incidence was a public utility that was torn down for housing. This has similarities with what Dotty is doing to Farm Terrace allotments, removing a public utility and using the land for housing.

On a more serious note, any councillor who says that people will not park on the steets near a restaurant but would prefer to park in a car park further away is either naive and foolish or just saying it to fool the people listening, to get the planning approved and quell dissent from local people who are now, predictably, suffering car parking issues from this development.

By Mars, the cllr is not saying people would prefer it just that he wants the restaurants to honour their commitment to try and get customers to use the car park.

That is neither naive or foolish, its saying you agreed to do this now do it. Surely precisely the thing a cllr should be doing?!

Agreed Tony, the criticism is not for him trying to get the restaurants to meet their promises, but for believing it would make a difference to local parking in the first place.

MarsLander wrote:
Judging by the election material I have received I would say you are mistaken LSC.

The Liberal/Cons seem to have a policy that if a pothole is reported they go out en-mass and have their picture taken next to it.

I feel sorry for them as it is only a matter of time before one of them ends up falling in and disappearing without trace. And to be honest, who would miss them?

The funny thing is, as I understand it, potholes belong (as much as a hole, i.e. a lack of something can belong to anyone) to the county. So why then do Watford councillors go and stand next to them, report them to county and then take credit for fixing them as though they have rolled up their sleeves and filled it in themselves? They're not faking it are they? Heaven forfend!

“To die old with a young mind is such a tragedy. Naiveness was never a blessing.” Shannon L Alder