Panel discuss PCC's job cut plans (From Watford Observer)
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Hertfordshire Police Crime Panel discuss PCC David Lloyd's job cut plans
11:00am Friday 25th January 2013 in News
By Adam Binnie, Senior Reporter
Plans to cut more than 130 police officers and staff from Hertfordshire Constabulary were discussed in public last night.
The police and crime commissioner, Councillor David Lloyd, is proposing to freeze the budget precept for 2013/14 while making £6.3 million of spending cuts.
The anticipated loss of 60 police officer posts and 76 police staff posts during the next financial year, were discussed at the Hertfordshire Police Crime Panel yesterday evening.
Councillor Roger Seabourne, representing Three Rivers District said: "No one is happy with any cuts as such, but we’re aware of the pressures and savings that have to be made and I’m hoping they’re made in the least painful way.
"The one thing which caused me to sit up and take note was when the commissioner said one of the reasons to make cuts is because the crime rate is falling.
"He said if the number of Tesco customers drops by 40 percent, you need fewer check-out staff.
"Someone asked if the crime rate increased, would he employ more officers, and he said they hoped it wouldn’t come to that.
"One of the reasons the rate has dropped is because we have so many police. There’s a cause and effect problem there which I’m not sure he totally understands."
Mayor of Watford Dorothy Thornhill represented the town at the meeting said: "I’m less worried about the cuts than you might think, because within the council we have reduced the head count without affecting services.
"I’m more concerned about how safe Watford feels to people, I asked the commissioner how he was going to consult with residents.
"Hertfordshire is a very safe county, and Watford is a very safe town, with the exception of the town centre, it’s all relative."
Mayor Thornhill said she was glad to see a large turnout of members of the public.
She added: "I’m really glad people made an effort. I’m not convinced the panel has a lot of teeth but by holding the meeting in public we can at least shine a spotlight on the commissioner.
"The whole point of the role was to put the commissioner on the side of the people."
Bushey representative councillor Morris Bright said: “I am pleased to see David Lloyd kept to his manifesto – he promised he would freeze the precept – and last night he agreed to this.
“The fact that he was the chairman of the Police Authority means he knows how finances work so he is not presenting a budget he does not understand about.
“Considering he was elected in the middle of November so only had a number of weeks to get this together is quite impressive.
“He assured us he is acting in the best interests of police and residents to keep Hertsmere safe.”
A percentage of the officer posts lost will be from crime investigation roles, which is losing £350,000 from its budget, while savings will also be made in intelligence support, in the control room and through collaboration with other forces.
A further £1.8 million of savings is to be made from slashing back office functions including HR, ICT, estates and finance, areas that could be outsourced to a private company.
Councillor Chris Lloyd said: "We are a low crime county with effective police action to catch criminals and maintain low crime levels.
"This has been due in part to a consistent approach built over a number of years; I have no wish to disrupt that."
Comments(12)
LSC
says...
8:21pm Fri 25 Jan 13
What an idiotic analogy. A better one might be: 'If the queues at the checkouts drop by 40% at Tescos, then you are obviously doing something right and it would be madness to change it by cutting staff, because even a moronic sparrow who has never even seen a Tesco would be able to tell you that it would instantly make the existing queues longer again.
A better idea would in fact be to increase staff and get the queues down 100%, because THAT IS WHAT THE CUSTOMERS WANT.'
But then what do I know; I don't get paid as much as him and when I make a decision have to put it to a panel for approval. I'm the boss at my place and just tend to get on with the job.
Roy Stockdill
says...
8:58pm Fri 25 Jan 13
LSC
says...
10:39pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Roy Stockdill wrote:Sadly, yes.
Does anyone actually know who David Lloyd is?
Board Member at Hertfordshire Local Enterprise Partnership
Independent Financial Advisor at Willis
Financial Advisor at Barclays Wealth and Investment Management
Private Banking Advisor at Lloyds TSB
Milton Keynes Borough Councillor at Milton Keynes Borough Council
Branch Manager at Lloyds TSB
Head Office Assistant Inspector (internal audit to Treasuries & other Head office functions) at Lloyds TSB
Graduate Trainee at Lloyds TSB
A career banker and politician, those two trades we all love and trust so much, and who so often lead on to good things for the people in the street.
Not having a go at him personally; he might be a nice bloke. But how about a couple of years as a copper before you think you know how they operate?
Policing has little to do with banking and politics, and everything to do with people.
Mohandas
says...
11:03pm Fri 25 Jan 13
LSC wrote:Well said LSC. Gov't crime figures are a real work of fiction and it is extremely difficult to compare one year to the next as they love to change the goalposts eg hospital waiting lists, the exam tables, the jobless figures, inflation measurements, etc.
"He said if the number of Tesco customers drops by 40 percent, you need fewer check-out staff."
What an idiotic analogy. A better one might be: 'If the queues at the checkouts drop by 40% at Tescos, then you are obviously doing something right and it would be madness to change it by cutting staff, because even a moronic sparrow who has never even seen a Tesco would be able to tell you that it would instantly make the existing queues longer again.
A better idea would in fact be to increase staff and get the queues down 100%, because THAT IS WHAT THE CUSTOMERS WANT.'
But then what do I know; I don't get paid as much as him and when I make a decision have to put it to a panel for approval. I'm the boss at my place and just tend to get on with the job.
LSC
says...
11:53pm Fri 25 Jan 13
There are far too many people who tackle figures, not real life issues.
Our Mr Lloyd has a BA in French language and literature and has never kept a 'normal' job (apart from councilor) for more than 4 years, and all of those in banking in London.
That is just who you need to decide how to handle a knife fight in South Oxhey, or what to do when rival football fans from Manchester arrange to meet up for a fight in our town centre.
In case anyone thinks I'm being vindictive, these facts are from his own website written by him.
He also says: "Judge me on my record in office as Chairman- crime down more than 20%, detections nudging 40% and no increase in council tax."
Ok, I will judge you on that. 6 out of 10 crimes are undetected. By your words. And that is just reported crime; many people don't even bother.
You can waffle on about no Council Tax increase; but how much have insurance premiums gone up because we are so likely to be victims of crime because you only catch (sorry, detect; there is a difference; a detection means a charge, NOT a prosecution) 4 out of every 10?
It might not be Council Tax, but I'm still paying through the nose one way or another.
You should stand in the corner and hang your head in shame.
Roy Stockdill
says...
10:49am Sat 26 Jan 13
A friend of mine was burgled a few years ago. He did report it and the police's response was to send round a woman PC who asked him if he wanted counselling! Being a big, strong six-footer, he told her in no uncertain terms that, no thanks very much, he didn't need counselling. All he wanted was for them to catch the
b * * * * * d that did it! Of course, they didn't.
And here's another factor about crime, i.e. the supposed clear-up rate which is often skewed by what courts called the TIC effect. TIC? That means that when the police do catch some prolific offender they persuade him to ask for a number of other offences to be taken into consideration, even if he didn't actually commit them, as a means of getting a lighter sentence. Result: those crimes are written off as cleared up.
Mohandas
says...
11:35am Sat 26 Jan 13
'And here's another factor about crime, i.e. the supposed clear-up rate which is often skewed by what courts called the TIC effect. TIC? That means that when the police do catch some prolific offender they persuade him to ask for a number of other offences to be taken into consideration, even if he didn't actually commit them, as a means of getting a lighter sentence. Result: those crimes are written off as cleared up'.
The problem is that this target driven culture has corrupted so many services that the quality or relevance is unimportant. It becomes a number crunching exercise as shown by the destruction of the education system evidenced by the soaring year on increases in theGCSE / AL tables. This 'new' PCC chap will do exactly the same to stay in his very lucrative position. Hardworking Joe Bloggs will continue to lose.
Mohandas
says...
11:39am Sat 26 Jan 13
'And here's another factor about crime, i.e. the supposed clear-up rate which is often skewed by what courts called the TIC effect. TIC? That means that when the police do catch some prolific offender they persuade him to ask for a number of other offences to be taken into consideration, even if he didn't actually commit them, as a means of getting a lighter sentence. Result: those crimes are written off as cleared up'.
The problem is that this target driven culture has corrupted so many services that the quality or relevance is unimportant. It becomes a number crunching exercise as shown by the destruction of the education system evidenced by the soaring year on increases in theGCSE / AL tables. This 'new' PCC chap will do exactly the same to stay in his very lucrative position. Hardworking Joe Bloggs will continue to lose.
Roy Stockdill
says...
11:50am Sat 26 Jan 13
However, every time I say this I am invariably howled down by younger people who claim I'm wrong and just being snobbish. But the evidence is all around us in the fact that a lot of employers say many young people are only semi-literate and innumerate, yet they have GCSE passes. How many kids can do mental arithmetic these days? They can't do even simple sums without a pocket calculator. And don't get me going on what the late Keith Waterhouse called "the grocer's apostrophe"! Example: "Apple's down in price today". I doubt hardly anyone understands how to use the apostrophe correctly these days, except me (and probably you).
garston tony
says...
9:19am Mon 28 Jan 13
I know it costs to keep a criminal behind bars, but how much does it cost every time he committs a crime when on probation or because they've been given a community sentence etc. Im personally fed up of hearing people with hundreds of previous convictions being sent on a course or told to pick up litter
Roy Stockdill
says...
9:42am Mon 28 Jan 13
Couldn't agree with you more about the ludicrous sentences being handed out to criminal scum who regard the whole thing as a joke and who will go on committing crimes because they know all they will get is a slap on the wrist and told not to be a naughty boy again.
The dopey "Go easy on criminals" brigade (including Guardian-reading Lib-Dems, social workers and Ken Clarke) keep telling us our jails are over-crowded and we can't keep sending more and more people to jail. Well, there's a very simple answer to that - build more prisons! Moreover, let's build them in remote places - the Scottish Highlands, expand Dartmoor jail, perhaps converted oil rigs in the North Sea or floating prison ships - make them escape-proof and make it extremely difficult for relatives to visit them. I'd also ban mobile phones in jails as well as television and DVDs, etc. The threat of lack of contact with the outside world, perhaps for years, will surely concentrate their minds and make them think twice or three times about committing crime.
The prison reformers and soppy Lefties waffle on about rehabilitation. I prefer two different terms beginning with R - Retribution and Revenge! By which I mean retribution for criminals and the revenge of decent people against those who offend against society.
Roy Stockdill says...
11:24am Fri 25 Jan 13
1) The claim that crime rates are falling was also headline news on the BBC's news bulletins last night. But are they really falling or is it simply because of subtle changes in the way crime statistics are compiled? Someone once said that you can make statistics prove anything you want them to prove, and I suspect this is true!
2) Dorothy Thornhill says Watford Council has reduced the number of employees without affecting services. Well, to me, that can mean only one thing - that the council was seriously over-staffed in the first place, something I've long believed to be true of councils throughout the country. There are far too many feather-bedded bureaucrats in local government doing little more than shuffling paper around.
3) A recent Daily Mail (or Mail on Sunday) investigation revealed there are a great many police officers moonlighting at second jobs. If this is the case, doesn't it suggest the way they work their shifts is very badly organised if it gives them time to do another job? Rather than make cuts in the number of officers, wouldn't it make more sense if the way police officers work was more efficient?