Grant will help church's family fun day

Plans for a central Watford church’s family event this summer have been given a boost after getting a council cash grant.

St John's Church, in Sutton Road, has received £668 from Hertfordshire County Council to help with the costs of the Central Watford Community Family Fun Day and Proms Concert in August.

The money has come from the council’s locality budget scheme.

Comments (19)

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10:29am Mon 18 Feb 13

MarsLander says...

Once again a councillor being very generous with our money.

Is this really what we pay our taxes for?

On top of that, is this gerrymandering the vote with county council elections coming up in a few months time?
Once again a councillor being very generous with our money. Is this really what we pay our taxes for? On top of that, is this gerrymandering the vote with county council elections coming up in a few months time? MarsLander

10:51am Mon 18 Feb 13

Roy Stockdill says...

Couldn't agree more! Why should churches be given money? I thought they had collections during services.

Churches, like virtually all other bodies, should be self supporting, i.e. paid for by those who wish to go to church. And if they can't support themselves, then let them shut down.
Couldn't agree more! Why should churches be given money? I thought they had collections during services. Churches, like virtually all other bodies, should be self supporting, i.e. paid for by those who wish to go to church. And if they can't support themselves, then let them shut down. Roy Stockdill

11:16am Mon 18 Feb 13

LSC says...

Churches exist for a specific purpose, which is fair enough. A place where like minded people can gather to bond, learn and praise their god.

There are many people of different or no religion who might not feel comfortable taking part in this event because of where and who is staging it.

Can you imagine all the little muslim children gleefully telling their imam what a great day they had at the christian church? And the imam exclaiming how wonderful, you should go more often....

Sounds idyllic doesn't it, but let's get back to the real world.

Public funds should not be spent this way on exclusive groups.
I know certain people will say the church is not exclusive and they welcome anyone, and I'm sure in their hearts they sincerely believe that. But welcoming someone and someone feeling welcome are two different things.
Churches exist for a specific purpose, which is fair enough. A place where like minded people can gather to bond, learn and praise their god. There are many people of different or no religion who might not feel comfortable taking part in this event because of where and who is staging it. Can you imagine all the little muslim children gleefully telling their imam what a great day they had at the christian church? And the imam exclaiming how wonderful, you should go more often.... Sounds idyllic doesn't it, but let's get back to the real world. Public funds should not be spent this way on exclusive groups. I know certain people will say the church is not exclusive and they welcome anyone, and I'm sure in their hearts they sincerely believe that. But welcoming someone and someone feeling welcome are two different things. LSC

2:27pm Mon 18 Feb 13

garston tony says...

Oh dear, here you all are again......
Oh dear, here you all are again...... garston tony

2:36pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Roy Stockdill says...

Not a terribly pertinent or significant comment, Tony!

I think you know my views well enough by now and also those of LSC.

Summed up briefly, in essence we are opposed to public money out of our taxes being given in the form of grants to bodies, organisations, etc, including churches, sports clubs, gardening clubs, boy scouts, hobbyists and so on.

I take the view that if people want something badly enough, then they should pay for it themselves. I belong to several genealogical organisations and so far as I'm aware, none of them get government or council grants. I and other members pay for them out of our subscriptions, so why can't members of churches do the same? What's the collection plate on Sundays for?
Not a terribly pertinent or significant comment, Tony! I think you know my views well enough by now and also those of LSC. Summed up briefly, in essence we are opposed to public money out of our taxes being given in the form of grants to bodies, organisations, etc, including churches, sports clubs, gardening clubs, boy scouts, hobbyists and so on. I take the view that if people want something badly enough, then they should pay for it themselves. I belong to several genealogical organisations and so far as I'm aware, none of them get government or council grants. I and other members pay for them out of our subscriptions, so why can't members of churches do the same? What's the collection plate on Sundays for? Roy Stockdill

8:34pm Mon 18 Feb 13

LSC says...

garston tony wrote:
Oh dear, here you all are again......
Oh come on Tony, I was quite fair there. I said what a church is, and therefore who should fund it.
It wasn't a pop at the people who attend.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: Oh dear, here you all are again......[/p][/quote]Oh come on Tony, I was quite fair there. I said what a church is, and therefore who should fund it. It wasn't a pop at the people who attend. LSC

8:37am Tue 19 Feb 13

garston tony says...

I didnt say you were having a pop, just pointing out that no suprise that you three had commented on this story.

Just as it is no suprise i'm sure that i've commented on your commentating!
I didnt say you were having a pop, just pointing out that no suprise that you three had commented on this story. Just as it is no suprise i'm sure that i've commented on your commentating! garston tony

12:37pm Tue 19 Feb 13

LSC says...

garston tony wrote:
I didnt say you were having a pop, just pointing out that no suprise that you three had commented on this story.

Just as it is no suprise i'm sure that i've commented on your commentating!
I would expect no less from you, sir! :)

But you have to remember, that is 'my' money. Yes, I can help change my councillor at the next election, but this sort of thing doesn't come up on manifestos so it is hard to chose.
I do not wish to fund organisations that I find distasteful.

I think you and I both dislike the BNP, but would both agree on their right to exist. How would you feel if your taxes were given to a BNP 'fun day' for the local children in the community?

You'd be furious, and rightly so.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: I didnt say you were having a pop, just pointing out that no suprise that you three had commented on this story. Just as it is no suprise i'm sure that i've commented on your commentating![/p][/quote]I would expect no less from you, sir! :) But you have to remember, that is 'my' money. Yes, I can help change my councillor at the next election, but this sort of thing doesn't come up on manifestos so it is hard to chose. I do not wish to fund organisations that I find distasteful. I think you and I both dislike the BNP, but would both agree on their right to exist. How would you feel if your taxes were given to a BNP 'fun day' for the local children in the community? You'd be furious, and rightly so. LSC

1:58pm Tue 19 Feb 13

garston tony says...

If this was money given to a church to help it 'preach' then you might have a point but this is money to hold two community events.

If you oppose this then you oppose all community events getting public funding.
If this was money given to a church to help it 'preach' then you might have a point but this is money to hold two community events. If you oppose this then you oppose all community events getting public funding. garston tony

2:06pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Roy Stockdill says...

Yes, I do! I rarely understand what so-called "community events" are and I never go near them, since they appear to me as so much politically correct twaddle and just an excuse for a party.

If people want a community event, then let them raise funds and pay for it themselves.
Yes, I do! I rarely understand what so-called "community events" are and I never go near them, since they appear to me as so much politically correct twaddle and just an excuse for a party. If people want a community event, then let them raise funds and pay for it themselves. Roy Stockdill

6:56pm Tue 19 Feb 13

LSC says...

garston tony wrote:
If this was money given to a church to help it 'preach' then you might have a point but this is money to hold two community events.

If you oppose this then you oppose all community events getting public funding.
So you would support a BNP led community event?
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: If this was money given to a church to help it 'preach' then you might have a point but this is money to hold two community events. If you oppose this then you oppose all community events getting public funding.[/p][/quote]So you would support a BNP led community event? LSC

2:36pm Wed 20 Feb 13

garston tony says...

LSC if the event didnt have any BNP connotations to it then yes I would in principle.

Roy, you dont get community events because the only community you are interested in has a population of exactly one ie you

You moan about there being divisions in society and then moan about events that encourage unity. You dont care about anything apart from being given the opportunity to have a moan, something I notice many Yorkshire folk have in common with you
LSC if the event didnt have any BNP connotations to it then yes I would in principle. Roy, you dont get community events because the only community you are interested in has a population of exactly one ie you You moan about there being divisions in society and then moan about events that encourage unity. You dont care about anything apart from being given the opportunity to have a moan, something I notice many Yorkshire folk have in common with you garston tony

7:17pm Wed 20 Feb 13

LSC says...

But how could it not? Why would an organisation bother unless they benefited in some way? Perhaps not direct recruitment, but good PR.

If the council or government gave ANY of MY money to the BNP for any reason whatsoever, be it feeding the starving, housing the homeless or just a fun day, I would object. The End does not justify the Means.
And just because you like churches and I don't, the principal is still the same.
But how could it not? Why would an organisation bother unless they benefited in some way? Perhaps not direct recruitment, but good PR. If the council or government gave ANY of MY money to the BNP for any reason whatsoever, be it feeding the starving, housing the homeless or just a fun day, I would object. The End does not justify the Means. And just because you like churches and I don't, the principal is still the same. LSC

1:06am Thu 21 Feb 13

Su Murray says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Yes, I do! I rarely understand what so-called "community events" are and I never go near them, since they appear to me as so much politically correct twaddle and just an excuse for a party.

If people want a community event, then let them raise funds and pay for it themselves.
So, what's wrong with having a 'party'? I arranged a community party last year. Basically, it was run, organised, and paid for, by local people giving time, and/or goods. To be honest, we did get given a grant of £50 (that we hadn't even asked for), much to our surprise. So, we're using that towards another event.

It was a non political, non religious, free event. What's not to like?
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: Yes, I do! I rarely understand what so-called "community events" are and I never go near them, since they appear to me as so much politically correct twaddle and just an excuse for a party. If people want a community event, then let them raise funds and pay for it themselves.[/p][/quote]So, what's wrong with having a 'party'? I arranged a community party last year. Basically, it was run, organised, and paid for, by local people giving time, and/or goods. To be honest, we did get given a grant of £50 (that we hadn't even asked for), much to our surprise. So, we're using that towards another event. It was a non political, non religious, free event. What's not to like? Su Murray

8:11am Thu 21 Feb 13

Roy Stockdill says...

I enjoy a good party myself! We always have an annual Christmas party at the Society of Genealogists, where I am on the Board of Trustees, for the volunteers who help in the library and in other roles throughout the year as a thank-you for their efforts.

However, that is an event for like-minded people who share a common interest. And we pay for it out of our own funds, quite rightly.

My problem with a "community" party is that I would be mixing with all kinds of people I don't know and who I will very probably have nothing whatsoever in common with. And if you think that is a somewhat snobbish viewpoint, well, fine, I can live with that!

Nor do I see why it should be paid for out of our taxes.
I enjoy a good party myself! We always have an annual Christmas party at the Society of Genealogists, where I am on the Board of Trustees, for the volunteers who help in the library and in other roles throughout the year as a thank-you for their efforts. However, that is an event for like-minded people who share a common interest. And we pay for it out of our own funds, quite rightly. My problem with a "community" party is that I would be mixing with all kinds of people I don't know and who I will very probably have nothing whatsoever in common with. And if you think that is a somewhat snobbish viewpoint, well, fine, I can live with that! Nor do I see why it should be paid for out of our taxes. Roy Stockdill

12:27pm Thu 21 Feb 13

garston tony says...

LSC, it IS possible to do something and not expect to gain anything from it! The central message of Christianity is love for all those around us, as much as many people being fallible humans find it difficult sometimes to do that if a church wishes to hold community events its perfectly possible that they are doing so purely because of the warm fuzzy feeling they'll get seeing the people of their community gathering together and getting along doing so fun activities etc.

As much as I don’t like the BNP if they were organising an event which was going to promote community cohesion and therefore be a positive experience and there was no BNP connotations to the event and if they are not benefitting financially from it either then why not?

Thank you Roy for explaining precisely why community events are such a good thing, its precisely because it’s a group of people who don’t necessarily have anything in common that they should happen. In this day and age we have neighbours who don’t talk to each other and who pass on by or ignore things because they don’t want to get involved. That does nobody any good and we now have increase in anti social behaviour and stories of people passing away and not being found for months or even years sometimes. All this would change if people got to know each other and looked out for each other, doesn’t mean you have to be best mates or anything Roy but having a community spirit benefits everyone.

Seeing as the problems above cost the tax payer money to deal with then a little money spent promoting community spirit could save a lot more further down the line. That is why tax money should be spent on it, have you not heard of prevention being better than cure Roy?
LSC, it IS possible to do something and not expect to gain anything from it! The central message of Christianity is love for all those around us, as much as many people being fallible humans find it difficult sometimes to do that if a church wishes to hold community events its perfectly possible that they are doing so purely because of the warm fuzzy feeling they'll get seeing the people of their community gathering together and getting along doing so fun activities etc. As much as I don’t like the BNP if they were organising an event which was going to promote community cohesion and therefore be a positive experience and there was no BNP connotations to the event and if they are not benefitting financially from it either then why not? Thank you Roy for explaining precisely why community events are such a good thing, its precisely because it’s a group of people who don’t necessarily have anything in common that they should happen. In this day and age we have neighbours who don’t talk to each other and who pass on by or ignore things because they don’t want to get involved. That does nobody any good and we now have increase in anti social behaviour and stories of people passing away and not being found for months or even years sometimes. All this would change if people got to know each other and looked out for each other, doesn’t mean you have to be best mates or anything Roy but having a community spirit benefits everyone. Seeing as the problems above cost the tax payer money to deal with then a little money spent promoting community spirit could save a lot more further down the line. That is why tax money should be spent on it, have you not heard of prevention being better than cure Roy? garston tony

1:06pm Thu 21 Feb 13

LSC says...

"LSC, it IS possible to do something and not expect to gain anything from it!"

Of course it is. It has just emerged that the late Amy Winehouse gave huge amounts of her money away to charity. She did not want the public to know, so kept it a secret. She might have organised or financed a thousand fun days for all we know.

But I know right away this is a church organised fun day. Because the church told me so. Why would they do that unless to say 'look how nice we are, and the good things we do?'

Now that is fine. But don't do that with MY money.
"LSC, it IS possible to do something and not expect to gain anything from it!" Of course it is. It has just emerged that the late Amy Winehouse gave huge amounts of her money away to charity. She did not want the public to know, so kept it a secret. She might have organised or financed a thousand fun days for all we know. But I know right away this is a church organised fun day. Because the church told me so. Why would they do that unless to say 'look how nice we are, and the good things we do?' Now that is fine. But don't do that with MY money. LSC

1:16pm Thu 21 Feb 13

Roy Stockdill says...

Oh dear, Tony, I do wish you wouldn't use those awful, stilted PC phrases like "community cohesion"!!! It's one of the things that make me shy right away from such events!

I prefer to choose my own company and events from people who are of my class and type and interests. But I don't expect others to pay for things we might organise.

Actually, some years ago I did make an effort to do my bit for the community in that I was persuaded to join the committee of a residents' association and edit a newsletter for them. This lasted for a while but there was nobody on the committee who was below about 60 and we found it impossible to get younger people interested because they were all far too busy with their own lives, so the association eventually folded. That was my last interference in "community cohesion".
Oh dear, Tony, I do wish you wouldn't use those awful, stilted PC phrases like "community cohesion"!!! It's one of the things that make me shy right away from such events! I prefer to choose my own company and events from people who are of my class and type and interests. But I don't expect others to pay for things we might organise. Actually, some years ago I did make an effort to do my bit for the community in that I was persuaded to join the committee of a residents' association and edit a newsletter for them. This lasted for a while but there was nobody on the committee who was below about 60 and we found it impossible to get younger people interested because they were all far too busy with their own lives, so the association eventually folded. That was my last interference in "community cohesion". Roy Stockdill

1:46pm Thu 21 Feb 13

Su Murray says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
I enjoy a good party myself! We always have an annual Christmas party at the Society of Genealogists, where I am on the Board of Trustees, for the volunteers who help in the library and in other roles throughout the year as a thank-you for their efforts.

However, that is an event for like-minded people who share a common interest. And we pay for it out of our own funds, quite rightly.

My problem with a "community" party is that I would be mixing with all kinds of people I don't know and who I will very probably have nothing whatsoever in common with. And if you think that is a somewhat snobbish viewpoint, well, fine, I can live with that!

Nor do I see why it should be paid for out of our taxes.
No I don't necessarily see it as snobbish on your part Roy. But I do think you are closing yourself off to other areas of entertainment, enjoyment, and knowledge and that's sad. If you lived in Central, and had attended our party, you would have met me. A reason to be thankful you didn't attend, you might say. Except I too have an interest in genealogy. In fact, I attended one of your talks at the Newton Price Centre many years ago when I was just starting out. I'm stuck with one particular area of research, so I would have asked your advice. Helpful to me, but I'm sure you enjoy sharing your knowledge?

You may well have also talked with Flo, who attended Central Primary over 70 years ago. A walking, talking, living, breathing, history lesson. Fascinating. Who knows who else you would have met, and found you have lots in common with.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: I enjoy a good party myself! We always have an annual Christmas party at the Society of Genealogists, where I am on the Board of Trustees, for the volunteers who help in the library and in other roles throughout the year as a thank-you for their efforts. However, that is an event for like-minded people who share a common interest. And we pay for it out of our own funds, quite rightly. My problem with a "community" party is that I would be mixing with all kinds of people I don't know and who I will very probably have nothing whatsoever in common with. And if you think that is a somewhat snobbish viewpoint, well, fine, I can live with that! Nor do I see why it should be paid for out of our taxes.[/p][/quote]No I don't necessarily see it as snobbish on your part Roy. But I do think you are closing yourself off to other areas of entertainment, enjoyment, and knowledge and that's sad. If you lived in Central, and had attended our party, you would have met me. A reason to be thankful you didn't attend, you might say. Except I too have an interest in genealogy. In fact, I attended one of your talks at the Newton Price Centre many years ago when I was just starting out. I'm stuck with one particular area of research, so I would have asked your advice. Helpful to me, but I'm sure you enjoy sharing your knowledge? You may well have also talked with Flo, who attended Central Primary over 70 years ago. A walking, talking, living, breathing, history lesson. Fascinating. Who knows who else you would have met, and found you have lots in common with. Su Murray

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