'Mañana syndrome' over 20's Plenty campaign

Hertfordshire County Council has been accused of putting off the debate on bringing down traffic speeds in Watford's residential roads.

A "special meeting" was held at county hall today, attended by 20s Plenty campaigners, but it soon transpired the issue would not actually be discussed at all.

The issue surrounds a difference between the way the Department for Transport and the county council qualify which roads can be made 20mph zones - something campaigners claim stopping the traffic measure being brought into residential roads.

Instead, select members of the overview and scrutiny committee met and decided the issue would need to be brought before a full meeting in the autumn.

Allan Witherick, vice chairman of the overview and scrutiny committee, accused the council of putting this issue off, due to "Mañana syndrome".

He added: "I was a council officer in 2001 when 20mph zones were first on the agenda. What can we do to bring this forward? It’s ridiculous this is still dragging on after more than a decade.

"We were trying to get the issue moved forward and looked at before the end of March. Unfortunately this has turned into a meeting about having a meeting."

The current Department for Transport guidelines recommends that 20mph limits are considered in roads where the average speed is 24mph or below.

However, the county council uses a different measure in its speed policy, which only allows roads to be reduced to 20mph if "the 85th percentile speeds are at 24mph or below".

This difference in qualification criteria means some residential roads, which under the DfT’s guidelines could be reduced to 20mph, cannot because a small minority of drivers push up the average speed.

Alan Searing, committee chairman, said: "It is totally unrealistic to get all the interested parties together. This will be considered by the whole committee rather than by a topic group."

On March 21, Watford Borough Council unanimously agreed that "the mayor should request that Hertfordshire County Council should investigate the feasibility of implementing a 20 mph limit on all residential roads in Watford, excluding major routes, as appropriate."

The national speed limit on lit roads is 30mph, and but this can be reduced if there are, or could be, a significant number of journeys on foot or bike.

There are already many 20mph areas in towns and village centres, or near to schools, and in St Albans a wide-area trial has been undertaken, where more than 50 roads have been reduced to 20mph.

Tom Hawkyard, head of scrutiny, said: "There is a lot of interest in this and if we tried to do it quickly lots of people wouldn’t be able to attend."

Comments(11)

G_Whiz says...
2:09pm Fri 22 Mar 13

It's not really a big issue to the people of Watford going by the last Q and A's.
Maybe they should ask for a meeting about something the voters deem more important?

cameluk says...
2:55pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Getting fed up with these people banging on about something that people don't want, and not enforceable. Feel like setting up a group called 30s Fine

S/O man says...
3:07pm Fri 22 Mar 13

do dooo do do do, manana, do do do do, manana etc

Mohandas says...
4:05pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Before launching into another policy, can we not at least consider whether the basics are being done.

Any chance of the pot holes being filled,pavements repaired, lights working when they should, the tons of litter being removed from verges, unwanted and damaged signs removed, how about salt bins strategically placed in side streets when snow fall is anticipated so we can move to work at hopefully 20MPH, etc.

Wacko Jacko says...
4:59pm Fri 22 Mar 13

cameluk wrote:
Getting fed up with these people banging on about something that people don't want, and not enforceable. Feel like setting up a group called 30s Fine
I'm fed up with people peddling the myth that 20 is not enforceable. Get your facts straight, all legally implemented speed limits are enforceable.
Mohandas has a point, but filling holes shouldn't get in the way of deciding on a policy for safer roads.

LSC says...
4:03pm Sat 23 Mar 13

Wacko Jacko wrote:
cameluk wrote:
Getting fed up with these people banging on about something that people don't want, and not enforceable. Feel like setting up a group called 30s Fine
I'm fed up with people peddling the myth that 20 is not enforceable. Get your facts straight, all legally implemented speed limits are enforceable.
Mohandas has a point, but filling holes shouldn't get in the way of deciding on a policy for safer roads.
How would you enforce them?
It would be interesting to know how many people have been caught doing over 30 (and plenty of people do) in the last year in residential streets without cameras.

My guess would be in single figures, if any at all.

Wacko Jacko says...
6:03pm Sat 23 Mar 13

LSC wrote:
Wacko Jacko wrote:
cameluk wrote:
Getting fed up with these people banging on about something that people don't want, and not enforceable. Feel like setting up a group called 30s Fine
I'm fed up with people peddling the myth that 20 is not enforceable. Get your facts straight, all legally implemented speed limits are enforceable.
Mohandas has a point, but filling holes shouldn't get in the way of deciding on a policy for safer roads.
How would you enforce them?
It would be interesting to know how many people have been caught doing over 30 (and plenty of people do) in the last year in residential streets without cameras.

My guess would be in single figures, if any at all.
LSC you raise a good point. Enforcement is a police matter and the don'r routinely enforce 30 in built up areas. However where there is a known problem they will target it. There is an alternative for residents - see: http://www.hertscomm
issioner.org/news/la
test_news/121212.asp
x

LSC says...
10:23pm Sat 23 Mar 13

I'm not sure I like the look of that Wacko. It says 'Award winning scheme' but fails to say who actually gave the award, what it was, and were they the only people to enter?

I just awarded myself the most handsome person in this room.

I am alone and you are the first to hear about the competition, but it is over now so don't all rush round, I won it.

Meaningless.

The article also completely fails to say how the scheme works, apart from it relies on private finance and volunteers. Good luck securing convictions with that.

"He looked like he was going a bit fast, M'lud' said Doris, 87.
"GUILTY! Take him down!" screamed the judge....

LSC says...
10:36pm Sat 23 Mar 13

"LSC you raise a good point. Enforcement is a police matter and the don'r routinely enforce 30 in built up areas. However where there is a known problem they will target it."

And that is my point. After all these meetings, and minutes, and memos, and votes, and surveys, and more meetings, and studies, and focus groups, and consultants, and sign changes, and road marking changes, and then informing the police, the DVLA, the magistrates, the judges, the solicitors of the new law:

What difference will it make to one single resident in Watford if they can't enforce it?

Not a jot. But it did make a lot of people look like they were doing something. At my expense, of course.

Wacko Jacko says...
5:03pm Sun 24 Mar 13

LSC wrote:
I'm not sure I like the look of that Wacko. It says 'Award winning scheme' but fails to say who actually gave the award, what it was, and were they the only people to enter?

I just awarded myself the most handsome person in this room.

I am alone and you are the first to hear about the competition, but it is over now so don't all rush round, I won it.

Meaningless.

The article also completely fails to say how the scheme works, apart from it relies on private finance and volunteers. Good luck securing convictions with that.

"He looked like he was going a bit fast, M'lud' said Doris, 87.
"GUILTY! Take him down!" screamed the judge....
LSC, if you really want to find out how these schemes work, do a Google search on community speed watch, there are lots of examples around the country and plenty of info about how they work. The fact is they do and they are effective in bringing down speeds.

LSC says...
11:40pm Sun 24 Mar 13

I have seen how they work on villages on A roads, or even busy B roads. But they won't work in Watford residential side roads. I did Google it.
Quote:
"Local volunteers join together and monitor traffic speeds at identified road locations in the community, Information is recorded and passed to the police, which result in a warning letter being sent to the registered keeper."

First of all, how do they monitor? Who pays for the RADAR that has to be calibrated to an official standard to stand up in any court?

Second, I'm a boy racer driving a car I borrowed from my girlfriend's cousin.
So someone, somewhere, gets a letter. Wooooooo! Scary, that'll stop me driving at 24 mph.

Thirdly: what local volunteers? Most of us are at work or dealing with childcare. Who is going to stand in the street 'just in case'?
And if you do have time to stand in the street, use it to warn people not to step in front of cars, no matter what the limit is.

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