Watford General Hospital's plea to stay away from A&E

Watford Observer: Plea to stay away from hospital's A&E Plea to stay away from hospital's A&E

Doctors at Watford General Hospital are asking people to stay away from the A&E department unless they absolutely need to go.

The hospital is very busy and dealing with a large number of older people with multiple or complex conditions.

Ambulances are still taking patients to the A&E department.

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10:04am Tue 3 Dec 13

Hornets number 12 fan says...

My God! who goes to A&E unless they need to!
My God! who goes to A&E unless they need to! Hornets number 12 fan

10:43am Tue 3 Dec 13

Mrs Droftaw says...

Perhaps GP surgeries need to make it easier to see a Dr!! Suthergrey House used to be great - now it Is impossible! Unless they sort it out people will go to A&E!
Perhaps GP surgeries need to make it easier to see a Dr!! Suthergrey House used to be great - now it Is impossible! Unless they sort it out people will go to A&E! Mrs Droftaw

10:46am Tue 3 Dec 13

angryangryangry says...

Hornets number 12 fan wrote:
My God! who goes to A&E unless they need to!
Many people do, that is the problem! A lot of people also call Ambulances when they could manage to get to hospital by other means....unfortunate
ly they don't want to put the effort in and want everything done for them!
[quote][p][bold]Hornets number 12 fan[/bold] wrote: My God! who goes to A&E unless they need to![/p][/quote]Many people do, that is the problem! A lot of people also call Ambulances when they could manage to get to hospital by other means....unfortunate ly they don't want to put the effort in and want everything done for them! angryangryangry

10:49am Tue 3 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it.

If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse.

A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose?

I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense.

No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money.

The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.
I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen. Phil Cox (UKIP)

12:16pm Tue 3 Dec 13

watford2099 says...

Broken Britain
Broken Britain watford2099

3:21pm Tue 3 Dec 13

smalon says...

"If you need to open more A&Es in the catchment area, do it".

Are you for real?
The government is closing them all to save money, it is not possible to just open up a new one on a whim.
We have been left with just two A&E departments in Hertfordshire and unfortunately it will result in some people losing their lives.

I was in a car accident earlier in the year and while the staff at Watford General were excellent, the stress they were under due to lack of staff/ over-working was palpable.
"If you need to open more A&Es in the catchment area, do it". Are you for real? The government is closing them all to save money, it is not possible to just open up a new one on a whim. We have been left with just two A&E departments in Hertfordshire and unfortunately it will result in some people losing their lives. I was in a car accident earlier in the year and while the staff at Watford General were excellent, the stress they were under due to lack of staff/ over-working was palpable. smalon

3:44pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

smalon wrote:
"If you need to open more A&Es in the catchment area, do it". Are you for real? The government is closing them all to save money, it is not possible to just open up a new one on a whim. We have been left with just two A&E departments in Hertfordshire and unfortunately it will result in some people losing their lives. I was in a car accident earlier in the year and while the staff at Watford General were excellent, the stress they were under due to lack of staff/ over-working was palpable.
I know they cannot be opened on a whim, which is why they need to evaluate the situation and fix it pronto.

They can close them easily enough and then wonder why what remains cannot cope. It's incredible how they remove capacity and then ask people not to use what's left becasue they can't cope.

Clearly "Plan A" isn't working. We need a "Plan B" and we need it now. People will die as a result of this lack of capacity. We pay a huge amount for the NHS - I think we are entitled to have one that works.

£11 billion on foreign aid.

Can anyone tell me why we have an NHS that doesn't work and the Police are having to make cuts, the Armed Forces are being slashed, all to make savings, so we can dish it out on Foreign Aid, much of which is stolen or abused and never reaches the sort of people you imagine it should?

Something is severely wrong with our priorities in the country.

I would suggest voting UKIP to restore some common sense. More and more people are realising this and joining UKIP.
[quote][p][bold]smalon[/bold] wrote: "If you need to open more A&Es in the catchment area, do it". Are you for real? The government is closing them all to save money, it is not possible to just open up a new one on a whim. We have been left with just two A&E departments in Hertfordshire and unfortunately it will result in some people losing their lives. I was in a car accident earlier in the year and while the staff at Watford General were excellent, the stress they were under due to lack of staff/ over-working was palpable.[/p][/quote]I know they cannot be opened on a whim, which is why they need to evaluate the situation and fix it pronto. They can close them easily enough and then wonder why what remains cannot cope. It's incredible how they remove capacity and then ask people not to use what's left becasue they can't cope. Clearly "Plan A" isn't working. We need a "Plan B" and we need it now. People will die as a result of this lack of capacity. We pay a huge amount for the NHS - I think we are entitled to have one that works. £11 billion on foreign aid. Can anyone tell me why we have an NHS that doesn't work and the Police are having to make cuts, the Armed Forces are being slashed, all to make savings, so we can dish it out on Foreign Aid, much of which is stolen or abused and never reaches the sort of people you imagine it should? Something is severely wrong with our priorities in the country. I would suggest voting UKIP to restore some common sense. More and more people are realising this and joining UKIP. Phil Cox (UKIP)

4:04pm Tue 3 Dec 13

mc77 says...

Phil Cox (UKIP) wrote:
I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it.

If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse.

A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose?

I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense.

No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money.

The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.
Your 1st two paragraphs are just so astoundingly ridiculous I don't know where to start....
"If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them".
Wow. Just how dis-connected and ill-informed are you??
Do you even have the slightest knowledge of how the NHS is run?
2 A+Es in Hertfordshire. 2!!!
Who do you think is closing services? It certainly isn't WGH.
I suggest you direct your vexation to Jeremy Hunt. Mind you, last time I saw him on television, he was being calmly informed of what an injection actually is, so I'm not really sure he has the capability of opening an email.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox (UKIP)[/bold] wrote: I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.[/p][/quote]Your 1st two paragraphs are just so astoundingly ridiculous I don't know where to start.... "If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them". Wow. Just how dis-connected and ill-informed are you?? Do you even have the slightest knowledge of how the NHS is run? 2 A+Es in Hertfordshire. 2!!! Who do you think is closing services? It certainly isn't WGH. I suggest you direct your vexation to Jeremy Hunt. Mind you, last time I saw him on television, he was being calmly informed of what an injection actually is, so I'm not really sure he has the capability of opening an email. mc77

4:30pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

mc77 wrote:
Phil Cox (UKIP) wrote: I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.
Your 1st two paragraphs are just so astoundingly ridiculous I don't know where to start.... "If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them". Wow. Just how dis-connected and ill-informed are you?? Do you even have the slightest knowledge of how the NHS is run? 2 A+Es in Hertfordshire. 2!!! Who do you think is closing services? It certainly isn't WGH. I suggest you direct your vexation to Jeremy Hunt. Mind you, last time I saw him on television, he was being calmly informed of what an injection actually is, so I'm not really sure he has the capability of opening an email.
MC77

mine was a general comment aimed at all those who are responsible for NHS planning and delivery who have failed the people in this area. Not the workers on the ground, but the planners and organisers whose ideas have failed.

I am not privy to the working of WGH, but I would imagine at some point in time the trust running WGH would have been informed of the provision of A&E's for the area and would have had an opportunity to argue the point of concentrating so much into two A&E's and what facilities would be available.

The fact it is now failing shows a lack of ability in all concerned who plan such services. I would imagine that is Mr Hunt, planners at the health trust and many in-between.

We accept failure far too easily in this country. It is about time we complained about it and then maybe something would be done.
[quote][p][bold]mc77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox (UKIP)[/bold] wrote: I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.[/p][/quote]Your 1st two paragraphs are just so astoundingly ridiculous I don't know where to start.... "If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them". Wow. Just how dis-connected and ill-informed are you?? Do you even have the slightest knowledge of how the NHS is run? 2 A+Es in Hertfordshire. 2!!! Who do you think is closing services? It certainly isn't WGH. I suggest you direct your vexation to Jeremy Hunt. Mind you, last time I saw him on television, he was being calmly informed of what an injection actually is, so I'm not really sure he has the capability of opening an email.[/p][/quote]MC77 mine was a general comment aimed at all those who are responsible for NHS planning and delivery who have failed the people in this area. Not the workers on the ground, but the planners and organisers whose ideas have failed. I am not privy to the working of WGH, but I would imagine at some point in time the trust running WGH would have been informed of the provision of A&E's for the area and would have had an opportunity to argue the point of concentrating so much into two A&E's and what facilities would be available. The fact it is now failing shows a lack of ability in all concerned who plan such services. I would imagine that is Mr Hunt, planners at the health trust and many in-between. We accept failure far too easily in this country. It is about time we complained about it and then maybe something would be done. Phil Cox (UKIP)

6:28pm Tue 3 Dec 13

pr76uk says...

Luckily, the NHS accepts good doctors and nurses from Romania. Once we open our borders to our EU friends, we will be able to get the staff that Phil UKIP cries out for.
Luckily, the NHS accepts good doctors and nurses from Romania. Once we open our borders to our EU friends, we will be able to get the staff that Phil UKIP cries out for. pr76uk

10:33pm Tue 3 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

pr76uk wrote:
Luckily, the NHS accepts good doctors and nurses from Romania. Once we open our borders to our EU friends, we will be able to get the staff that Phil UKIP cries out for.
We do not need to open our borders to the whole population of the EU in order to fill our nursing and doctor vacancies. We have always had people from the rest of the world come to visit, work or move to our country and we have welcomed them. The difference was that in the past we could control the borders and therefore how many people we took in. Now we have almost no say in it whatsoever. It is no longer a UK competency, it is controlled by the EU. Our politicians gave it away. along with so much else.

I would prefer to live in a democratic independent country, like the UK used to be before we got conned into joining the EU by Heath and all those that came after him, with the honourable exception of Margaret Thatcher.
[quote][p][bold]pr76uk[/bold] wrote: Luckily, the NHS accepts good doctors and nurses from Romania. Once we open our borders to our EU friends, we will be able to get the staff that Phil UKIP cries out for.[/p][/quote]We do not need to open our borders to the whole population of the EU in order to fill our nursing and doctor vacancies. We have always had people from the rest of the world come to visit, work or move to our country and we have welcomed them. The difference was that in the past we could control the borders and therefore how many people we took in. Now we have almost no say in it whatsoever. It is no longer a UK competency, it is controlled by the EU. Our politicians gave it away. along with so much else. I would prefer to live in a democratic independent country, like the UK used to be before we got conned into joining the EU by Heath and all those that came after him, with the honourable exception of Margaret Thatcher. Phil Cox (UKIP)

11:22am Wed 4 Dec 13

garston tony says...

Phil Cox (UKIP) wrote:
I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.
Hows about making a plea to support the hospitals calls for people who dont need to go to a&e to stay away.

As much as they may or may not need more staff and resources it doesnt help that a significant amount of people do burden a&e (and the NHS as a whole) with stuff they dont need to.

Of course, you're a politician so would rather jump on a bandwagon that critisise people that you want to vote for you.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox (UKIP)[/bold] wrote: I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.[/p][/quote]Hows about making a plea to support the hospitals calls for people who dont need to go to a&e to stay away. As much as they may or may not need more staff and resources it doesnt help that a significant amount of people do burden a&e (and the NHS as a whole) with stuff they dont need to. Of course, you're a politician so would rather jump on a bandwagon that critisise people that you want to vote for you. garston tony

11:45am Wed 4 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

garston tony wrote:
Phil Cox (UKIP) wrote: I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.
Hows about making a plea to support the hospitals calls for people who dont need to go to a&e to stay away. As much as they may or may not need more staff and resources it doesnt help that a significant amount of people do burden a&e (and the NHS as a whole) with stuff they dont need to. Of course, you're a politician so would rather jump on a bandwagon that critisise people that you want to vote for you.
No Tony, that's not correct. I would rather provide the service that people need, want and ultimately pay for, I feel no need for jumping on bandwagons.

People are not medically trained. If they feel a need to get something checked out urgently then they need to go to A&E in many cases. That's what it is there for, isn't it?

We pay a fortune in this country for the NHS, not all of which is spent wisely in my opinion. We spend £11billion pounds on foreign aid, much of which is stolen or misused. So why can't we have an A&E service that is available to all, whether they are in need of A&E services or just think they are. I believe it is better to be safe than sorry.

At the end of the day, the planning and delivery of this service at Watford is inadequate, it cannot cope. We are just entering winter, so it will likely get worse as winter progresses.

I am not critical of the staff manning A&E, I am critical of those who believe the current system is adequate, who closed other A&E's, and who got it wrong. It's time they got their finger out and started getting it right.

There are few areas of government spending where I am willing to pay for a degree of overmanning, to allow for a better service and contingency. Fire services, Police, Ambulance and A&E are some of those areas, they are our emergency sevices.

So it's principles, not bandwagons. There's a huge difference. Other parties join bandwagons. The LibDems, Greens and Labour locally jumped aboard the 20's Plenty which really is a bandwagon (with only three wheels by all accounts) and it would have been so easy for UKIP to have said "Us too", but we took a principled stance, examined the facts and made up our own minds. In this case we have raised serious issues with the 20's Plenty argument. If you want bandwagon jumpers, look elsewhere, you will not find them in UKIP.

We want everyone to vote UKIP, but that will not exclude us from pointing out where things are not working as they should. Fair criticism should not put people off voting for UKIP. Pretending the problem is not there and doing nothing about it is far more likely to put people off voting UKIP in my opinion. We leave that sort of behaviour to other parties.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox (UKIP)[/bold] wrote: I make a plea for the hospital, which now services a far bigger area than it used to since other A&E's were closed, to man up and meet the demands of the people who need it. If you need more staff, find them. If you need more beds, get them. If you need to pass patients on to other services quicker, make it happen. If you need to open more A&E's in the catchment area, do it. But whatever you do, do it now. Winter is coming and that will only make things worse. A&E is not fit for purpose or it would not need to make such pleas. Who is responsible? Why has this happened? Are they fit for purpose? I recently had call to visit the hospital. Management was extremely poor and I ended up making a formal complaint. At 11:45 they had only just admitted a 9:25 appointment. They only opened the appointments at 9. How can they get so far behind so quickly? 20 minutes of appointments in 2 and three quarter hours? Something is seriously wrong. Even when we were seen we were told we needed to see the consultant, so come back in three months. It seems the appointment was not only unbelievably delayed on the day but when we were seen it was by the wrong person who could do nothing but delay us by a further three months. No doubt boxes were ticked and targets met, but for me it was a waste of everyone's time. If we needed to see the consultant, then why wasn't he the one seeing us? It's just common sense. No doubt the people who run the hospital are busy patting themselves on the back and awarding bonuses to themselves, but on the ground it's a mess. The appointment I attended was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and money. The one bright side? The car park attendant was very helpful when I went out to buy more time to compensate for the delay in being seen.[/p][/quote]Hows about making a plea to support the hospitals calls for people who dont need to go to a&e to stay away. As much as they may or may not need more staff and resources it doesnt help that a significant amount of people do burden a&e (and the NHS as a whole) with stuff they dont need to. Of course, you're a politician so would rather jump on a bandwagon that critisise people that you want to vote for you.[/p][/quote]No Tony, that's not correct. I would rather provide the service that people need, want and ultimately pay for, I feel no need for jumping on bandwagons. People are not medically trained. If they feel a need to get something checked out urgently then they need to go to A&E in many cases. That's what it is there for, isn't it? We pay a fortune in this country for the NHS, not all of which is spent wisely in my opinion. We spend £11billion pounds on foreign aid, much of which is stolen or misused. So why can't we have an A&E service that is available to all, whether they are in need of A&E services or just think they are. I believe it is better to be safe than sorry. At the end of the day, the planning and delivery of this service at Watford is inadequate, it cannot cope. We are just entering winter, so it will likely get worse as winter progresses. I am not critical of the staff manning A&E, I am critical of those who believe the current system is adequate, who closed other A&E's, and who got it wrong. It's time they got their finger out and started getting it right. There are few areas of government spending where I am willing to pay for a degree of overmanning, to allow for a better service and contingency. Fire services, Police, Ambulance and A&E are some of those areas, they are our emergency sevices. So it's principles, not bandwagons. There's a huge difference. Other parties join bandwagons. The LibDems, Greens and Labour locally jumped aboard the 20's Plenty which really is a bandwagon (with only three wheels by all accounts) and it would have been so easy for UKIP to have said "Us too", but we took a principled stance, examined the facts and made up our own minds. In this case we have raised serious issues with the 20's Plenty argument. If you want bandwagon jumpers, look elsewhere, you will not find them in UKIP. We want everyone to vote UKIP, but that will not exclude us from pointing out where things are not working as they should. Fair criticism should not put people off voting for UKIP. Pretending the problem is not there and doing nothing about it is far more likely to put people off voting UKIP in my opinion. We leave that sort of behaviour to other parties. Phil Cox (UKIP)

11:21am Thu 5 Dec 13

garston tony says...

No people are not medically trained, but there are somethings you dont need to go to a&e or even a doctor for for instance if you have a common cold. Yes people should be able to see a GP, but if they cant then they are still wrong to take minor complaints to a&e. Both of these things happen. Yes if in doubt it is best to get something checked out, but some people know they are not in need of a&e attention yet still attend it.

People like that are preventing others with actual genuine need of emergency attention from getting it in a timely manner. I make my point again, you wont critisise them as they are potential voters. Your comments are not about fair criticism, they are about saying whatever you need to to get a popular vote.


On a tangent why oh why arent people who are taken to a&e because they have drunk too much or taken drugs not charged for the cost of their care? These people are a huge burden on the system and they are so because of wilfull over indulgence in substances that they know could lead to them need medical treatment. Fine them £500 the first time it happens, double it every time after that up to say four times at which point you're up before a judge who has the authority to ban you from town centres, pubs, clubs etc and even ultimately drinking altogether.

I would imagine pretty quickly a&e would stop being filled so often with drunks and druggies and the knock on effect would be a better atmosphere in town/drinking centres with less anti social behaviour all round. Just a thought
No people are not medically trained, but there are somethings you dont need to go to a&e or even a doctor for for instance if you have a common cold. Yes people should be able to see a GP, but if they cant then they are still wrong to take minor complaints to a&e. Both of these things happen. Yes if in doubt it is best to get something checked out, but some people know they are not in need of a&e attention yet still attend it. People like that are preventing others with actual genuine need of emergency attention from getting it in a timely manner. I make my point again, you wont critisise them as they are potential voters. Your comments are not about fair criticism, they are about saying whatever you need to to get a popular vote. On a tangent why oh why arent people who are taken to a&e because they have drunk too much or taken drugs not charged for the cost of their care? These people are a huge burden on the system and they are so because of wilfull over indulgence in substances that they know could lead to them need medical treatment. Fine them £500 the first time it happens, double it every time after that up to say four times at which point you're up before a judge who has the authority to ban you from town centres, pubs, clubs etc and even ultimately drinking altogether. I would imagine pretty quickly a&e would stop being filled so often with drunks and druggies and the knock on effect would be a better atmosphere in town/drinking centres with less anti social behaviour all round. Just a thought garston tony

12:22pm Thu 5 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

Tony,

Better sit down.

Thismight shock you but I am going to agree with you in principle and criticise people, some of whom might vote UKIP.

If people are going to A&E knowing what is wrong with them and knowing it is not appropriate to A&E treatment then I agree with you 100%, they should not be there and what's more they should not be treated at A&E.

I am more concerned for those who are genuinely worried, who do not know what is wrong with them or how serious an ailment is, or who are fretting over their child or other relative or friend who is suffering. These people must be seen even if it turns out later they did not warrant A&E treatment. Better a false alarm that a tragedy.

I hope you would agree with that general principal.

On a side note, presumably A&E's have been getting the same cross-section of patients year on year and yet now, after all the cuts, they cannot cope. If this is correct, it still points to a lack of planning and/or funding for the needs of the population.


On your tangent about why are people who are taken to A&E are not charged if their ailments are self-inflicted through either drink or drugs. It is undoubtedly a burden on the NHS and the public purse, one we could all do without.

That is an interesting point and I am personally in two minds about it.

On the one hand, you could agree with that quite easily, after all "it is their fault" so to speak. But where do you stop?

What about lifestyle-related injuries or ailments? What about people who were doing DIY at home? What about people who have accidents at work? Playing sports? Where would you draw the line? Wouldn't we just end up charging everyone and in effect privatising the NHS?

And that's the other thought, should the NHS be privatised or part privatised and everyone charged something towards what they use? It's a valid argument.

But then, through taxation, do we not already pay for the NHS?

Again I'll go back to my earlier point. If we don't have enough money for the NHS then we should look at transferring money from elsewhere. My first target would be the bloated aid budget. £11 billion a year. For those who find it hard to visuallise such a huge amount of cash, it equates to £21,000 for every second of every day or £1.25 million pounds every single minute.

I am a fan of the NHS in principle. It's too expensive and not perfect by any means, there is huge room for improvement, but it's the best we've got and as we own it we can insist on it being improved.

From my little dealings with it, it's already better in some ways than it was. It could be made to work well and be cost-effective.

Personally I rather like the idea of having medical treatment for all without additional cost to the person. It's rather civilised and reassuring. I have hardly ever used the NHS, but it's nice to know it's there when I need it and I don't need to worry about whether I could afford it or not or to remember to bring my credit card.

The UK would be a poorer place without it.
Tony, Better sit down. Thismight shock you but I am going to agree with you in principle and criticise people, some of whom might vote UKIP. If people are going to A&E knowing what is wrong with them and knowing it is not appropriate to A&E treatment then I agree with you 100%, they should not be there and what's more they should not be treated at A&E. I am more concerned for those who are genuinely worried, who do not know what is wrong with them or how serious an ailment is, or who are fretting over their child or other relative or friend who is suffering. These people must be seen even if it turns out later they did not warrant A&E treatment. Better a false alarm that a tragedy. I hope you would agree with that general principal. On a side note, presumably A&E's have been getting the same cross-section of patients year on year and yet now, after all the cuts, they cannot cope. If this is correct, it still points to a lack of planning and/or funding for the needs of the population. On your tangent about why are people who are taken to A&E are not charged if their ailments are self-inflicted through either drink or drugs. It is undoubtedly a burden on the NHS and the public purse, one we could all do without. That is an interesting point and I am personally in two minds about it. On the one hand, you could agree with that quite easily, after all "it is their fault" so to speak. But where do you stop? What about lifestyle-related injuries or ailments? What about people who were doing DIY at home? What about people who have accidents at work? Playing sports? Where would you draw the line? Wouldn't we just end up charging everyone and in effect privatising the NHS? And that's the other thought, should the NHS be privatised or part privatised and everyone charged something towards what they use? It's a valid argument. But then, through taxation, do we not already pay for the NHS? Again I'll go back to my earlier point. If we don't have enough money for the NHS then we should look at transferring money from elsewhere. My first target would be the bloated aid budget. £11 billion a year. For those who find it hard to visuallise such a huge amount of cash, it equates to £21,000 for every second of every day or £1.25 million pounds every single minute. I am a fan of the NHS in principle. It's too expensive and not perfect by any means, there is huge room for improvement, but it's the best we've got and as we own it we can insist on it being improved. From my little dealings with it, it's already better in some ways than it was. It could be made to work well and be cost-effective. Personally I rather like the idea of having medical treatment for all without additional cost to the person. It's rather civilised and reassuring. I have hardly ever used the NHS, but it's nice to know it's there when I need it and I don't need to worry about whether I could afford it or not or to remember to bring my credit card. The UK would be a poorer place without it. Phil Cox (UKIP)

1:24pm Thu 5 Dec 13

garry.armstrong232@btinternet.com says...

OPEN BACK UP ALL THE OTHER HOSPITAL THE GOVERMENT CLOSED DOWN .THEN WATFORD WOULD NOT HAVE TO PUT THIS PLEE OUT IV BEEN GOING THERE YEARS AN SEEN IT GO UP AN DOWN SINCE CAMROON GOT IN AN CLOSED MOST OF THE HOSPITALS DOWN AS IN AND E DEPARTMENTS WATFORD IS PUSHED TO THE LIMIT AN IT NOT THERE FALT DO NOT BLAME NURSES AN DOCTORS BLAME DAVID CAMROON
OPEN BACK UP ALL THE OTHER HOSPITAL THE GOVERMENT CLOSED DOWN .THEN WATFORD WOULD NOT HAVE TO PUT THIS PLEE OUT IV BEEN GOING THERE YEARS AN SEEN IT GO UP AN DOWN SINCE CAMROON GOT IN AN CLOSED MOST OF THE HOSPITALS DOWN AS IN AND E DEPARTMENTS WATFORD IS PUSHED TO THE LIMIT AN IT NOT THERE FALT DO NOT BLAME NURSES AN DOCTORS BLAME DAVID CAMROON garry.armstrong232@btinternet.com

5:39pm Thu 5 Dec 13

Lady Phillippa Of Staines says...

Ive Munchausens & let me tell you, its for more difficult since the cuts to get the help I need
Ive Munchausens & let me tell you, its for more difficult since the cuts to get the help I need Lady Phillippa Of Staines

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