New hospital road will lead to job creation, says Watford's elected mayor Dorothy Thornhill

Watford Observer: Watford elected mayor Dorothy Thornhill Watford elected mayor Dorothy Thornhill

Watford’s elected mayor has said the new link road to Watford General Hospital will help provide more jobs for the town.

Dorothy Thornhill said as well as improving access to the hospital the scheme will pave the way for regeneration of the land around Cardiff Road.

Her comments come after Watford Borough Council agreed plans to build the road from Dalton Way to Willow Lane on Thursday.

Following the meeting, Mayor Thornhill said: “The roads will help reduce traffic congestion in this part of Watford and improve access to the hospital, so I’m very pleased that we have been able to work with local residents and park users to get the better design solution we wanted.

Watford Observer: Map of the new hospital road.

“The plans being worked up for the Health Campus site will also see new employment units for companies to move into. This will lead to more jobs, so these new roads are really crucial to the local economy and the job situation for years to come.”

The new road is the first step in the long-awaited Watford health campus project, which promises to develop the land behind Vicarage Road with 600 new homes and a new hospital.

The road will go through the Oxhey Park playing fields, across Wiggenhall Road, and through the Cardiff Road Industrial Estate, before connecting with Willow Lane.

The overall cost of the new roads is estimated at £18.5million. West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust is providing £7million towards the cost, with the Hertfordshire Local Enterprise Partnership contributing a further £6million.

John Gourd, Chair of Hertfordshire partnership said: “This new road infrastructure is important to the area. Of course, hundreds of local people are currently employed at Watford Hospital but the plans being developed for the Health Campus site will also see derelict land regenerated to provide good quality employment space.

"We see this as a key area to provide future economic growth and many new jobs, which will benefit local people.”

Comments (21)

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4:27pm Mon 16 Dec 13

not a regular says...

My back-of-the-napkin calculations based on ~2km of new roads comes to approximately £4m including all drainage provisions, and I've added quite a few contingencies. Doesn't include utilities although the utilities should be funding that themselves.

Add £100k for each signalised junction or roundabout.

If £18.5m is the lowest sum they can come up with for a PR point of view, that is ridiculous. Obviously including future maintenance and inspection liabilities to Herts Highways will increase that figure somewhat.
My back-of-the-napkin calculations based on ~2km of new roads comes to approximately £4m including all drainage provisions, and I've added quite a few contingencies. Doesn't include utilities although the utilities should be funding that themselves. Add £100k for each signalised junction or roundabout. If £18.5m is the lowest sum they can come up with for a PR point of view, that is ridiculous. Obviously including future maintenance and inspection liabilities to Herts Highways will increase that figure somewhat. not a regular

5:20pm Mon 16 Dec 13

phil mitchel says...

More jobs = less recreation, this road goes right through Oxhey Park therebye further reducing the amount of green open space in Watford. Interestingly her husband Cllr Sharpe was once listed as a friend of Oxhey Park but is no longer. It's typical of politicians to dump a friend if it gets in the way of political ambition, its known as no principles.
More jobs = less recreation, this road goes right through Oxhey Park therebye further reducing the amount of green open space in Watford. Interestingly her husband Cllr Sharpe was once listed as a friend of Oxhey Park but is no longer. It's typical of politicians to dump a friend if it gets in the way of political ambition, its known as no principles. phil mitchel

5:49pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Andrew1963 says...

If it regenerates the area it will generate more traffic. If it is not simply going to be an access road to the Watford General AAU for people who in the past would have gone to Hemel A&E, they might as well plan now to link it up to Greenhill crescent and Tolpitrs Lane to take traffic off of Hagden Lane, Whippendell Road and Rickmansworth Road. Otherwise all those perople driving to the new jobs will end up coming through West Watford and down Wiggenhall Road
If it regenerates the area it will generate more traffic. If it is not simply going to be an access road to the Watford General AAU for people who in the past would have gone to Hemel A&E, they might as well plan now to link it up to Greenhill crescent and Tolpitrs Lane to take traffic off of Hagden Lane, Whippendell Road and Rickmansworth Road. Otherwise all those perople driving to the new jobs will end up coming through West Watford and down Wiggenhall Road Andrew1963

5:53pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

There is no money for a hospital as I understand it.

If there was no hospital, would people in Watford accept this road being built for industrial use only? Isn't Watford built-up already? Would they accept the building over of protected allotments?

I'm just wondering if the LibDems are building a scar and developments across Watford using a new hospital as an excuse no-one can stand in the way of.

Can the LibDem politicians be trusted? (Ask a student)
There is no money for a hospital as I understand it. If there was no hospital, would people in Watford accept this road being built for industrial use only? Isn't Watford built-up already? Would they accept the building over of protected allotments? I'm just wondering if the LibDems are building a scar and developments across Watford using a new hospital as an excuse no-one can stand in the way of. Can the LibDem politicians be trusted? (Ask a student) Phil Cox (UKIP)

6:37pm Mon 16 Dec 13

not a regular says...

Phil Cox (UKIP) wrote:
There is no money for a hospital as I understand it.

If there was no hospital, would people in Watford accept this road being built for industrial use only? Isn't Watford built-up already? Would they accept the building over of protected allotments?

I'm just wondering if the LibDems are building a scar and developments across Watford using a new hospital as an excuse no-one can stand in the way of.

Can the LibDem politicians be trusted? (Ask a student)
Fair enough there may not be a hospital, which would be a huge shame.

However, you act as though industry in the town is bad. God forbid we as a country do something other to produce wealth than sell overpriced houses to eachother.

If a road can bring new businesses into the town then that is nothing to scoff at. Or are you just happy with Watford becoming a town for commuting and vomiting in the high street?

I don't get the opinions on the allotments either, it's not as though it's a public space. It's a glorified garden that isn't next to a house.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox (UKIP)[/bold] wrote: There is no money for a hospital as I understand it. If there was no hospital, would people in Watford accept this road being built for industrial use only? Isn't Watford built-up already? Would they accept the building over of protected allotments? I'm just wondering if the LibDems are building a scar and developments across Watford using a new hospital as an excuse no-one can stand in the way of. Can the LibDem politicians be trusted? (Ask a student)[/p][/quote]Fair enough there may not be a hospital, which would be a huge shame. However, you act as though industry in the town is bad. God forbid we as a country do something other to produce wealth than sell overpriced houses to eachother. If a road can bring new businesses into the town then that is nothing to scoff at. Or are you just happy with Watford becoming a town for commuting and vomiting in the high street? I don't get the opinions on the allotments either, it's not as though it's a public space. It's a glorified garden that isn't next to a house. not a regular

11:30pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

Industry is good, in fact essential, in its place.

Overcrowding one of the most overcrowded parts of Hertfordshire by building more houses does not seem very clever, and I am against driving roads through parks full stop. Allotments are open air and green, therefore generally a good thing.

Watford has seen a lot of development over the years, it's about time we tried to preserve those things that are still good about Watford and not just build over them.

We have to live in Watford as well as just work in Watford. A balance needs to be found and this may not be on balance in the best interests of the town.
Industry is good, in fact essential, in its place. Overcrowding one of the most overcrowded parts of Hertfordshire by building more houses does not seem very clever, and I am against driving roads through parks full stop. Allotments are open air and green, therefore generally a good thing. Watford has seen a lot of development over the years, it's about time we tried to preserve those things that are still good about Watford and not just build over them. We have to live in Watford as well as just work in Watford. A balance needs to be found and this may not be on balance in the best interests of the town. Phil Cox (UKIP)

10:35am Tue 17 Dec 13

TRT says...

This road is a travesty. More green space destroyed. Look at the map... there's brownfield ex-industrial land and a barely viable retail park that could be used for this access with only the railway in the way. They could tunnel that and leave the playing fields as they are. Why don't they? Cost, pure and simple. As has been so rightly pointed out, (1) the hospital is not a done deal (2) if it does go ahead, it'll be serving Hemel as well, so why put the whole thing in South Watford? (3) it wouldn't be accepted if it were only industrial units being served (4) it'll do nothing for traffic relief due to the junction signalling proposed.

HOLD OFF ON THE ROAD. It needs to be parcelled with the hospital plan - the way it's going they are going to build it anyway. And the football pitches that they are going to leave are going to be small, unsuitable for large numbers of spectators, and no doubt penned in by high wire fences to stop balls going into the road. Visually intrusive, inner city recreation style pitches replacing open, green and pleasant fields.
This road is a travesty. More green space destroyed. Look at the map... there's brownfield ex-industrial land and a barely viable retail park that could be used for this access with only the railway in the way. They could tunnel that and leave the playing fields as they are. Why don't they? Cost, pure and simple. As has been so rightly pointed out, (1) the hospital is not a done deal (2) if it does go ahead, it'll be serving Hemel as well, so why put the whole thing in South Watford? (3) it wouldn't be accepted if it were only industrial units being served (4) it'll do nothing for traffic relief due to the junction signalling proposed. HOLD OFF ON THE ROAD. It needs to be parcelled with the hospital plan - the way it's going they are going to build it anyway. And the football pitches that they are going to leave are going to be small, unsuitable for large numbers of spectators, and no doubt penned in by high wire fences to stop balls going into the road. Visually intrusive, inner city recreation style pitches replacing open, green and pleasant fields. TRT

11:10am Tue 17 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

TRT wrote:
This road is a travesty. More green space destroyed. Look at the map... there's brownfield ex-industrial land and a barely viable retail park that could be used for this access with only the railway in the way. They could tunnel that and leave the playing fields as they are. Why don't they? Cost, pure and simple. As has been so rightly pointed out, (1) the hospital is not a done deal (2) if it does go ahead, it'll be serving Hemel as well, so why put the whole thing in South Watford? (3) it wouldn't be accepted if it were only industrial units being served (4) it'll do nothing for traffic relief due to the junction signalling proposed. HOLD OFF ON THE ROAD. It needs to be parcelled with the hospital plan - the way it's going they are going to build it anyway. And the football pitches that they are going to leave are going to be small, unsuitable for large numbers of spectators, and no doubt penned in by high wire fences to stop balls going into the road. Visually intrusive, inner city recreation style pitches replacing open, green and pleasant fields.
Have you thought of standing for council?

By the sounds of it you would do a far better job of it than our current ones and we could do with some common sense in council, particularly when it comes to things like this.
[quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: This road is a travesty. More green space destroyed. Look at the map... there's brownfield ex-industrial land and a barely viable retail park that could be used for this access with only the railway in the way. They could tunnel that and leave the playing fields as they are. Why don't they? Cost, pure and simple. As has been so rightly pointed out, (1) the hospital is not a done deal (2) if it does go ahead, it'll be serving Hemel as well, so why put the whole thing in South Watford? (3) it wouldn't be accepted if it were only industrial units being served (4) it'll do nothing for traffic relief due to the junction signalling proposed. HOLD OFF ON THE ROAD. It needs to be parcelled with the hospital plan - the way it's going they are going to build it anyway. And the football pitches that they are going to leave are going to be small, unsuitable for large numbers of spectators, and no doubt penned in by high wire fences to stop balls going into the road. Visually intrusive, inner city recreation style pitches replacing open, green and pleasant fields.[/p][/quote]Have you thought of standing for council? By the sounds of it you would do a far better job of it than our current ones and we could do with some common sense in council, particularly when it comes to things like this. Phil Cox (UKIP)

1:35pm Tue 17 Dec 13

G_Whiz says...

BLIMEY!

One minute the Lib-Dems lecture us all on the benefits of mass-immigration, and building over Watford. The next we get lectures about the lack of jobs and traffic congestion.

I wish they would make their minds up!
BLIMEY! One minute the Lib-Dems lecture us all on the benefits of mass-immigration, and building over Watford. The next we get lectures about the lack of jobs and traffic congestion. I wish they would make their minds up! G_Whiz

1:50pm Tue 17 Dec 13

EU_OUT_NOW says...

This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.
This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though. EU_OUT_NOW

3:44pm Tue 17 Dec 13

TRT says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.
It will serve only the hospital.
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.[/p][/quote]It will serve only the hospital. TRT

3:59pm Tue 17 Dec 13

EU_OUT_NOW says...

TRT wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.
It will serve only the hospital.
Could it be that it will help the industrial estate "Watford Business Park" in west Watford to reach the M1 easier? or hasn't Dotty thought that far ahead?
[quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.[/p][/quote]It will serve only the hospital.[/p][/quote]Could it be that it will help the industrial estate "Watford Business Park" in west Watford to reach the M1 easier? or hasn't Dotty thought that far ahead? EU_OUT_NOW

4:15pm Tue 17 Dec 13

TRT says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
TRT wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.
It will serve only the hospital.
Could it be that it will help the industrial estate "Watford Business Park" in west Watford to reach the M1 easier? or hasn't Dotty thought that far ahead?
Deliberately designed so as to be for the hospital only to prevent the "West Watford congestion" from blocking the access to their flagship project. The regular Waterfields congestion will do that job just as well.
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: This road, which as far as I understand will link up west Watford to as near as **** it the M1 is well over due and much needed. I believe it was planned some years ago? Friends of Oxhey Park won't be pleased though.[/p][/quote]It will serve only the hospital.[/p][/quote]Could it be that it will help the industrial estate "Watford Business Park" in west Watford to reach the M1 easier? or hasn't Dotty thought that far ahead?[/p][/quote]Deliberately designed so as to be for the hospital only to prevent the "West Watford congestion" from blocking the access to their flagship project. The regular Waterfields congestion will do that job just as well. TRT

4:26pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Phil Cox (UKIP) says...

If there's no hospital it would be a shame to waste it, so it can then be used for all other purposes.

I doubt that has escaped the developers and politicians minds.
If there's no hospital it would be a shame to waste it, so it can then be used for all other purposes. I doubt that has escaped the developers and politicians minds. Phil Cox (UKIP)

4:58pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Boosey says...

Might need a lollipop person, that's one new job!
Might need a lollipop person, that's one new job! Boosey

9:02pm Tue 17 Dec 13

TRT says...

When you say 'original plan' you're talking about a scheme that was scrapped donkeys years ago along with the Ricky Road widening scheme that blighted I don't know how many properties and led to the loss of a historic building much regretted. There's a history of this kind of thing. Dozens of roundabouts with dead end turn offs, super wide roads serving nothing in particular, infrastructure needlessly put in place draining funds from other sources, eg the Parade revamp as opposed to tidying up Lower High Street which is virtually a ghost town. Noone minds too much if it's an odd looking roundabout or a brownfield site that bombs, but this is taking away something that's green, alive and very much in use. If they must build a road, build the Cardiff Road bit first, not the playing fields. I'm not convinced the hospital plan will go ahead, but I do know the existing plans put the service in the wrong place for Hertfordshire.
When you say 'original plan' you're talking about a scheme that was scrapped donkeys years ago along with the Ricky Road widening scheme that blighted I don't know how many properties and led to the loss of a historic building much regretted. There's a history of this kind of thing. Dozens of roundabouts with dead end turn offs, super wide roads serving nothing in particular, infrastructure needlessly put in place draining funds from other sources, eg the Parade revamp as opposed to tidying up Lower High Street which is virtually a ghost town. Noone minds too much if it's an odd looking roundabout or a brownfield site that bombs, but this is taking away something that's green, alive and very much in use. If they must build a road, build the Cardiff Road bit first, not the playing fields. I'm not convinced the hospital plan will go ahead, but I do know the existing plans put the service in the wrong place for Hertfordshire. TRT

11:09pm Tue 17 Dec 13

Andrew1963 says...

What the Mayor fails to say is that the hospital can't afford its contribution, so she has agreed to give them millions in an unsecured interest free loan, using Watford Council money to get the thing built. Amazing, central NHS capital money is given to build the road and the hospital is so skint it is using the money to fund its day to day operations. Whatever the merits of the road and it's interesting that 18 months ago the mayor was saying it was for the hospital - now it's about jobs (Watford by the way is a net importer of workers with more jobs in the borough than the number of residents in work or seeking work) . At least everyone now knows all the redevelopment of Cardiff Road industrial estate and Farm Terrace allotments is about is making profits for the development partners
What the Mayor fails to say is that the hospital can't afford its contribution, so she has agreed to give them millions in an unsecured interest free loan, using Watford Council money to get the thing built. Amazing, central NHS capital money is given to build the road and the hospital is so skint it is using the money to fund its day to day operations. Whatever the merits of the road and it's interesting that 18 months ago the mayor was saying it was for the hospital - now it's about jobs (Watford by the way is a net importer of workers with more jobs in the borough than the number of residents in work or seeking work) . At least everyone now knows all the redevelopment of Cardiff Road industrial estate and Farm Terrace allotments is about is making profits for the development partners Andrew1963

1:44pm Wed 18 Dec 13

Sara says...

Sadly there are still going to be problems accessing the hospital from many locations. When out daughter was in Special Care after her birth, I visited three times a day. On a number of occasions, we had problems getting to the hospital because of traffic gridlock. On one occasion, we were not allowed to drive anywhere near the hospital, due to match night.

If the hospital is to serve all of West Herts, we need to make sure we can all get there.
Sadly there are still going to be problems accessing the hospital from many locations. When out daughter was in Special Care after her birth, I visited three times a day. On a number of occasions, we had problems getting to the hospital because of traffic gridlock. On one occasion, we were not allowed to drive anywhere near the hospital, due to match night. If the hospital is to serve all of West Herts, we need to make sure we can all get there. Sara

1:29pm Thu 19 Dec 13

G_Whiz says...

Sara wrote:
Sadly there are still going to be problems accessing the hospital from many locations. When out daughter was in Special Care after her birth, I visited three times a day. On a number of occasions, we had problems getting to the hospital because of traffic gridlock. On one occasion, we were not allowed to drive anywhere near the hospital, due to match night.

If the hospital is to serve all of West Herts, we need to make sure we can all get there.
Surely that's the whole point of this road, cut's all that gridlock out - Probably a very good thing! check the map again!
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: Sadly there are still going to be problems accessing the hospital from many locations. When out daughter was in Special Care after her birth, I visited three times a day. On a number of occasions, we had problems getting to the hospital because of traffic gridlock. On one occasion, we were not allowed to drive anywhere near the hospital, due to match night. If the hospital is to serve all of West Herts, we need to make sure we can all get there.[/p][/quote]Surely that's the whole point of this road, cut's all that gridlock out - Probably a very good thing! check the map again! G_Whiz

2:49pm Thu 19 Dec 13

TRT says...

I did check the map. My map has Google traffic superimposed on it, as derived from average speeds recorded by GPS-enabled Android devices (or Apple run a similar system). And it shows... quite a lot of red on Waterfields Way, south-bound most of the time. The new road's not going to cut that out. And quite a lot of red on Eastbury Road / around Bushey arches. The new road isn't going to sort that out either, in fact it will make it worse. And there's often a lot of red on Wiggenhall Road too, backing up from Vicarage Road or the Vicarage Road triangle. It's not going to help that much. In fact, there's a very good chance that the junction will be blocked by it. And there's quite a bit of red around The Dome, Rickmansworth Road, Station Road etc etc.
Don't forget that this health campus plan is part of a replacement plan for Hemel and St Albans emergency medical care. Is this really the best solution to the problem? A road which is going to shave off a minute at best from ambulance transit to hospital times which are set to increase by 10 - 15 minutes? Is it really worth it? Or are they going to build it anyway, the health campus plans get cut back or scrapped and then it's a white elephant?

There are plenty of precedents. And whilst you might pass these concerns off as doom-mongering and speculative, do they really need to start bulldozing playing fields before they've even turfed out the companies operating from the ex-Croxley Sheds yard?
I did check the map. My map has Google traffic superimposed on it, as derived from average speeds recorded by GPS-enabled Android devices (or Apple run a similar system). And it shows... quite a lot of red on Waterfields Way, south-bound most of the time. The new road's not going to cut that out. And quite a lot of red on Eastbury Road / around Bushey arches. The new road isn't going to sort that out either, in fact it will make it worse. And there's often a lot of red on Wiggenhall Road too, backing up from Vicarage Road or the Vicarage Road triangle. It's not going to help that much. In fact, there's a very good chance that the junction will be blocked by it. And there's quite a bit of red around The Dome, Rickmansworth Road, Station Road etc etc. Don't forget that this health campus plan is part of a replacement plan for Hemel and St Albans emergency medical care. Is this really the best solution to the problem? A road which is going to shave off a minute at best from ambulance transit to hospital times which are set to increase by 10 - 15 minutes? Is it really worth it? Or are they going to build it anyway, the health campus plans get cut back or scrapped and then it's a white elephant? There are plenty of precedents. And whilst you might pass these concerns off as doom-mongering and speculative, do they really need to start bulldozing playing fields before they've even turfed out the companies operating from the ex-Croxley Sheds yard? TRT

3:21pm Thu 19 Dec 13

EU_OUT_NOW says...

TRT wrote:
I did check the map. My map has Google traffic superimposed on it, as derived from average speeds recorded by GPS-enabled Android devices (or Apple run a similar system). And it shows... quite a lot of red on Waterfields Way, south-bound most of the time. The new road's not going to cut that out. And quite a lot of red on Eastbury Road / around Bushey arches. The new road isn't going to sort that out either, in fact it will make it worse. And there's often a lot of red on Wiggenhall Road too, backing up from Vicarage Road or the Vicarage Road triangle. It's not going to help that much. In fact, there's a very good chance that the junction will be blocked by it. And there's quite a bit of red around The Dome, Rickmansworth Road, Station Road etc etc.
Don't forget that this health campus plan is part of a replacement plan for Hemel and St Albans emergency medical care. Is this really the best solution to the problem? A road which is going to shave off a minute at best from ambulance transit to hospital times which are set to increase by 10 - 15 minutes? Is it really worth it? Or are they going to build it anyway, the health campus plans get cut back or scrapped and then it's a white elephant?

There are plenty of precedents. And whilst you might pass these concerns off as doom-mongering and speculative, do they really need to start bulldozing playing fields before they've even turfed out the companies operating from the ex-Croxley Sheds yard?
Wow!!!! must get me one of these toys.... red cars, white elephants? whatever next?
[quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: I did check the map. My map has Google traffic superimposed on it, as derived from average speeds recorded by GPS-enabled Android devices (or Apple run a similar system). And it shows... quite a lot of red on Waterfields Way, south-bound most of the time. The new road's not going to cut that out. And quite a lot of red on Eastbury Road / around Bushey arches. The new road isn't going to sort that out either, in fact it will make it worse. And there's often a lot of red on Wiggenhall Road too, backing up from Vicarage Road or the Vicarage Road triangle. It's not going to help that much. In fact, there's a very good chance that the junction will be blocked by it. And there's quite a bit of red around The Dome, Rickmansworth Road, Station Road etc etc. Don't forget that this health campus plan is part of a replacement plan for Hemel and St Albans emergency medical care. Is this really the best solution to the problem? A road which is going to shave off a minute at best from ambulance transit to hospital times which are set to increase by 10 - 15 minutes? Is it really worth it? Or are they going to build it anyway, the health campus plans get cut back or scrapped and then it's a white elephant? There are plenty of precedents. And whilst you might pass these concerns off as doom-mongering and speculative, do they really need to start bulldozing playing fields before they've even turfed out the companies operating from the ex-Croxley Sheds yard?[/p][/quote]Wow!!!! must get me one of these toys.... red cars, white elephants? whatever next? EU_OUT_NOW

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