Plymouth Brethren Christian Church seeks permission to turn Balls Pond Farm, Kings Langley, into gospel halls

Plymouth Brethren church seeks permission to turn farm into gospel halls

Plymouth Brethren church seeks permission to turn farm into gospel halls

First published in News Watford Observer: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter

A Christian church that describes radio and television as "pipelines of filth" has put in an application to convert equestrian buildings at a Kings Langley farm into a place of worship.

The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church already has a base in Leverstock Green but has submitted a formal planning application for the transformation of equestrian buildings at Balls Pond Farm, in Chipperfield Road, into a gospel hall, complete with car parking for 24 vehicles.

The farm is currently under the ownership of Dacorum Borough Council.

The strict Christian church, which requires women to wear headscarves to worship, has its own schools and puts a strong emphasis on the importance of family. They describe radio and television as "pipelines of filth" and believe they have begun "intruding into households and disrupting family life".

Kings Langley parish council discussed the application at their Planning and Licensing Committee meeting on Tuesday evening.

Ron Smith, chairman of the parish council, said the committee would mark the item as "noted", as the farm does not belong to the applicants.

If the church is granted permission, services would be held in the farm every Sunday from 5.45am to 7am and fortnightly on Sundays from 3pm to 3.45pm. There would also be weekly Monday meetings from 6.30pm to 7.15pm.

The hall would be used for worship only, with social and recreational uses not permitted, and musical instruments would not be used during services.

There would be no sub-letting of the venue and marriages and funeral services would not be conducted here as these are held at the church’s larger location in Hemel Hempstead.

During peak times up to 60 people are expected to visit the gospel hall.

The news of this application comes while a project group, which is not linked to the Brethren Church, has announced its plans to raise nearly £2 million to buy Balls Pond Farm and turn it into a community space.

Kings Langley Community Benefit Society (CBS) is looking to turn it into a Biodynamic Farm with an education centre to be used as a teaching resource for the wider community. The group also plans to build a shop, cafe and create a space for events.

Dacorum Borough Council’s Development Control committee aims to make a decision on the application by February 12.

Comments (46)

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4:35am Fri 10 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

I strongly oppose this application. These extremist cults should never be encouraged. While I am second to none in tolerating many strange beliefs, this particular bunch have a record of mentally distorting the families they exert their malign influence over. The reason they oppose their cult members having access to public media is because this would open up their bizarre beliefs up to proper scrutiny. These extreme forms of family and individual control are designed to achieve unquestioning obedience from their robot-like followers. These people are extremely dangerous and should never receive any form of encouragement.
I strongly oppose this application. These extremist cults should never be encouraged. While I am second to none in tolerating many strange beliefs, this particular bunch have a record of mentally distorting the families they exert their malign influence over. The reason they oppose their cult members having access to public media is because this would open up their bizarre beliefs up to proper scrutiny. These extreme forms of family and individual control are designed to achieve unquestioning obedience from their robot-like followers. These people are extremely dangerous and should never receive any form of encouragement. John Dowdle
  • Score: -5

8:09am Fri 10 Jan 14

andyandyandy says...

These crazies need banning
These crazies need banning andyandyandy
  • Score: -3

10:23am Fri 10 Jan 14

garston tony says...

Cults and crazies hey. There speaketh the ignorant....

I used to have some near neighbours who were Plymouth Brethren and I got to know them fairly well over the years. They were ordinary folk who wanted as much as possible to lead a simple life which included doing without what they felt where the negative influence of electronic media.

Seeing as there is plenty to support the idea that media etc has had and does have a negative impact on both individuals and society
we could probably all take a leaf out of their book and be more careful about what we let into our lives. Calling television a pipeline for filth is hardly controvertial and indeed even a cursory glance at a tv listings shows its a rather accurate description.

I also had several discussions with them over the years about how some of our Christian beliefs differed from one another, you probably wont understand this but if a group was so concerned about control of its members then such discussions would have been totally out of the questions as we were discussing view points that directly challenged some of their beliefs.

Its rather sad that we live in a day and age when even old codgers like JD believe TV and internet to be the font of all knowledge and that it does nothing but good, its even sadder that just because someone chooses not to use those things that they are viewed on as different, 'crazies' and that their abstinence is a form of control. There are others sources of information, books for instance, which I'm pretty sure they dont have a problem with at all and they were well educated people.

I also recall a few years ago watching a documentary about Plymouth Brethren where they had allowed cameras into their lives briefly in the hope that people would understand them better. I recall distinctively being informed that whilst the adults involved where in two minds about the idea they were swayed into doing it by their children who were very enthusiastic, again hardly the actions JD of a group who are trying to exert total control over its members.

If you want to find people who want to exert total control and want robot like obedience then look no further than those that work in media and those that become slaves to what is put out. I say good on anyone who doesnt want to become a slave to television and who chooses not to allow it to tell them how to live their lives.
Cults and crazies hey. There speaketh the ignorant.... I used to have some near neighbours who were Plymouth Brethren and I got to know them fairly well over the years. They were ordinary folk who wanted as much as possible to lead a simple life which included doing without what they felt where the negative influence of electronic media. Seeing as there is plenty to support the idea that media etc has had and does have a negative impact on both individuals and society we could probably all take a leaf out of their book and be more careful about what we let into our lives. Calling television a pipeline for filth is hardly controvertial and indeed even a cursory glance at a tv listings shows its a rather accurate description. I also had several discussions with them over the years about how some of our Christian beliefs differed from one another, you probably wont understand this but if a group was so concerned about control of its members then such discussions would have been totally out of the questions as we were discussing view points that directly challenged some of their beliefs. Its rather sad that we live in a day and age when even old codgers like JD believe TV and internet to be the font of all knowledge and that it does nothing but good, its even sadder that just because someone chooses not to use those things that they are viewed on as different, 'crazies' and that their abstinence is a form of control. There are others sources of information, books for instance, which I'm pretty sure they dont have a problem with at all and they were well educated people. I also recall a few years ago watching a documentary about Plymouth Brethren where they had allowed cameras into their lives briefly in the hope that people would understand them better. I recall distinctively being informed that whilst the adults involved where in two minds about the idea they were swayed into doing it by their children who were very enthusiastic, again hardly the actions JD of a group who are trying to exert total control over its members. If you want to find people who want to exert total control and want robot like obedience then look no further than those that work in media and those that become slaves to what is put out. I say good on anyone who doesnt want to become a slave to television and who chooses not to allow it to tell them how to live their lives. garston tony
  • Score: 2

12:13pm Fri 10 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

I once worked for a company where the board of directors were all Plymouth Brethren (so I was told, possibly "Exclusive Brethren".) I came to regard them as intolerant, strict and was duly sacked for not bending to their controlling regime. I wouldn't call them a cult, but they do run a tight evangelical Christian style ship, should you become a congregation member. I can't see any harm in turning the property into a gospel hall, just love gospel music!. It would also suggest that the hall will be used by "Open Brethren" So there is nothing to fear. They believe absolutely in the bible and believe in clean living (something that wouldn't go amiss in our society today) TV is the pipeline of filth? Well the WO has to sell news, so dwelling on the absolute negative is bound to provoke a response! There are other Christian denominations who call door to door I regard as more threatening, especially as they are almost impossible to get rid of. We have two mosque's, so why not a gospel hall?
I once worked for a company where the board of directors were all Plymouth Brethren (so I was told, possibly "Exclusive Brethren".) I came to regard them as intolerant, strict and was duly sacked for not bending to their controlling regime. I wouldn't call them a cult, but they do run a tight evangelical Christian style ship, should you become a congregation member. I can't see any harm in turning the property into a gospel hall, just love gospel music!. It would also suggest that the hall will be used by "Open Brethren" So there is nothing to fear. They believe absolutely in the bible and believe in clean living (something that wouldn't go amiss in our society today) TV is the pipeline of filth? Well the WO has to sell news, so dwelling on the absolute negative is bound to provoke a response! There are other Christian denominations who call door to door I regard as more threatening, especially as they are almost impossible to get rid of. We have two mosque's, so why not a gospel hall? EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 0

1:27pm Fri 10 Jan 14

andyandyandy says...

Like most of christianity and indeed all religions they are highly contradictory.
TV, Social media is a 'pipeline of filth', oh really? That will be why they have their own web site and facebook page will it..
Time these bronze age myths were resigned to history where they belong.
Like most of christianity and indeed all religions they are highly contradictory. TV, Social media is a 'pipeline of filth', oh really? That will be why they have their own web site and facebook page will it.. Time these bronze age myths were resigned to history where they belong. andyandyandy
  • Score: 0

2:00pm Fri 10 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

andyandyandy wrote:
Like most of christianity and indeed all religions they are highly contradictory.
TV, Social media is a 'pipeline of filth', oh really? That will be why they have their own web site and facebook page will it..
Time these bronze age myths were resigned to history where they belong.
Note for you here "Claire Maxwell, Reporter"

"Time these bronze age myths were resigned to history where they belong."
[quote][p][bold]andyandyandy[/bold] wrote: Like most of christianity and indeed all religions they are highly contradictory. TV, Social media is a 'pipeline of filth', oh really? That will be why they have their own web site and facebook page will it.. Time these bronze age myths were resigned to history where they belong.[/p][/quote]Note for you here "Claire Maxwell, Reporter" "Time these bronze age myths were resigned to history where they belong." EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 0

9:43pm Fri 10 Jan 14

2Timothy says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
I once worked for a company where the board of directors were all Plymouth Brethren (so I was told, possibly "Exclusive Brethren".) I came to regard them as intolerant, strict and was duly sacked for not bending to their controlling regime. I wouldn't call them a cult, but they do run a tight evangelical Christian style ship, should you become a congregation member. I can't see any harm in turning the property into a gospel hall, just love gospel music!. It would also suggest that the hall will be used by "Open Brethren" So there is nothing to fear. They believe absolutely in the bible and believe in clean living (something that wouldn't go amiss in our society today) TV is the pipeline of filth? Well the WO has to sell news, so dwelling on the absolute negative is bound to provoke a response! There are other Christian denominations who call door to door I regard as more threatening, especially as they are almost impossible to get rid of. We have two mosque's, so why not a gospel hall?
" I can't see any harm in turning the property into a gospel hall, just love gospel music!. It would also suggest that the hall will be used by "Open Brethren" So there is nothing to fear."

Sadly this lot are not the open brethren, nor do they do gospel music - it's all without accompaniment and from another century.

This lot are indeed the Exclusive Brethren, recently re-branded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, while simultaneously renaming their meeting rooms as gospel halls - all it seems to make them a bit more 'touchy feely' and not like the bad reputation they had/have.
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: I once worked for a company where the board of directors were all Plymouth Brethren (so I was told, possibly "Exclusive Brethren".) I came to regard them as intolerant, strict and was duly sacked for not bending to their controlling regime. I wouldn't call them a cult, but they do run a tight evangelical Christian style ship, should you become a congregation member. I can't see any harm in turning the property into a gospel hall, just love gospel music!. It would also suggest that the hall will be used by "Open Brethren" So there is nothing to fear. They believe absolutely in the bible and believe in clean living (something that wouldn't go amiss in our society today) TV is the pipeline of filth? Well the WO has to sell news, so dwelling on the absolute negative is bound to provoke a response! There are other Christian denominations who call door to door I regard as more threatening, especially as they are almost impossible to get rid of. We have two mosque's, so why not a gospel hall?[/p][/quote]" I can't see any harm in turning the property into a gospel hall, just love gospel music!. It would also suggest that the hall will be used by "Open Brethren" So there is nothing to fear." Sadly this lot are not the open brethren, nor do they do gospel music - it's all without accompaniment and from another century. This lot are indeed the Exclusive Brethren, recently re-branded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, while simultaneously renaming their meeting rooms as gospel halls - all it seems to make them a bit more 'touchy feely' and not like the bad reputation they had/have. 2Timothy
  • Score: 4

10:45pm Fri 10 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

2Timothy says...

Sadly this lot are not the open brethren, nor do they do gospel music - it's all without accompaniment and from another century.

This lot are indeed the Exclusive Brethren, recently re-branded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, while simultaneously renaming their meeting rooms as gospel halls - all it seems to make them a bit more 'touchy feely' and not like the bad reputation they had/have.

Oh dear, Is this your opinion or do you know more than most? Sounds as though you do. It sounds a bit like the Shakers
2Timothy says... Sadly this lot are not the open brethren, nor do they do gospel music - it's all without accompaniment and from another century. This lot are indeed the Exclusive Brethren, recently re-branded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, while simultaneously renaming their meeting rooms as gospel halls - all it seems to make them a bit more 'touchy feely' and not like the bad reputation they had/have. Oh dear, Is this your opinion or do you know more than most? Sounds as though you do. It sounds a bit like the Shakers EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: -1

11:15pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LSC says...

To condemn television the way they do and then take part in a television documentary is rather typical of the hypocrisy of religions.
They are happy to break their own self-imposed rules if it suits their purpose.

Like when Moses got the very clear instruction: Thou shall not kill. But then he later saw some-one gathering sticks on a sabbath and had him stoned to death.

Like the muslims who are also not allowed to kill, but then it turns out non-believers don't count. Or children who bring shame on your family.

Or the catholics who can sin all they want as long as they say sorry afterwards and say a few hail Mary's, they will still go upstairs ok.

Religion is rife with it, and it is all about control.This lot in the report are worse than many, but it is all just a sliding scale of the same cancer on society.
I don't particularly object to a group of like minded adults singing songs in a hut. Hope they enjoy. But lay off the children. I wonder how many brethren converted to it compared to how many were born into it?
And that should tell you something.
As we know, that horrible and evil Westboro baptist church in the USA are all pretty much one family. They quite clearly indoctrinate their children (although some have now escaped) and all religions operate the same way to a greater or lesser degree. The evidence is undeniable.
To condemn television the way they do and then take part in a television documentary is rather typical of the hypocrisy of religions. They are happy to break their own self-imposed rules if it suits their purpose. Like when Moses got the very clear instruction: Thou shall not kill. But then he later saw some-one gathering sticks on a sabbath and had him stoned to death. Like the muslims who are also not allowed to kill, but then it turns out non-believers don't count. Or children who bring shame on your family. Or the catholics who can sin all they want as long as they say sorry afterwards and say a few hail Mary's, they will still go upstairs ok. Religion is rife with it, and it is all about control.This lot in the report are worse than many, but it is all just a sliding scale of the same cancer on society. I don't particularly object to a group of like minded adults singing songs in a hut. Hope they enjoy. But lay off the children. I wonder how many brethren converted to it compared to how many were born into it? And that should tell you something. As we know, that horrible and evil Westboro baptist church in the USA are all pretty much one family. They quite clearly indoctrinate their children (although some have now escaped) and all religions operate the same way to a greater or lesser degree. The evidence is undeniable. LSC
  • Score: -3

10:07am Sat 11 Jan 14

2Timothy says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
2Timothy says...

Sadly this lot are not the open brethren, nor do they do gospel music - it's all without accompaniment and from another century.

This lot are indeed the Exclusive Brethren, recently re-branded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, while simultaneously renaming their meeting rooms as gospel halls - all it seems to make them a bit more 'touchy feely' and not like the bad reputation they had/have.

Oh dear, Is this your opinion or do you know more than most? Sounds as though you do. It sounds a bit like the Shakers
I've been watching their dispute with the Charity Commissioners where they have just this week scraped through being allowed to be a charity - but they've got to stop being nasty and continue their recent trend of being nicer. Ex-exclusive brethren have not been allowed to see family once they've left and other cruel regulations like this. One interesting website examining the detriment and harm caused by this group is: http://laurencemoffi
tt.blogspot.co.uk/ or go on Facebook and search for the group Ex-exclusive brethren where former members meet together to discuss their past and current difficulties with this group. Or fresh from the house of lords, Baroness Berridge: http://www.baronessb
erridge.com/charity-
commission-forces-a-
detrimental-religion
-to-change-its-ways/
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: 2Timothy says... Sadly this lot are not the open brethren, nor do they do gospel music - it's all without accompaniment and from another century. This lot are indeed the Exclusive Brethren, recently re-branded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, while simultaneously renaming their meeting rooms as gospel halls - all it seems to make them a bit more 'touchy feely' and not like the bad reputation they had/have. Oh dear, Is this your opinion or do you know more than most? Sounds as though you do. It sounds a bit like the Shakers[/p][/quote]I've been watching their dispute with the Charity Commissioners where they have just this week scraped through being allowed to be a charity - but they've got to stop being nasty and continue their recent trend of being nicer. Ex-exclusive brethren have not been allowed to see family once they've left and other cruel regulations like this. One interesting website examining the detriment and harm caused by this group is: http://laurencemoffi tt.blogspot.co.uk/ or go on Facebook and search for the group Ex-exclusive brethren where former members meet together to discuss their past and current difficulties with this group. Or fresh from the house of lords, Baroness Berridge: http://www.baronessb erridge.com/charity- commission-forces-a- detrimental-religion -to-change-its-ways/ 2Timothy
  • Score: 5

11:37am Sat 11 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

2Timothy says...

I looked at the websites you suggested, what an eye opener! No wonder I was sacked..):):):) The sub heading on the site made a very profound statement, as below :-

This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world!

Goodness me!
2Timothy says... I looked at the websites you suggested, what an eye opener! No wonder I was sacked..):):):) The sub heading on the site made a very profound statement, as below :- This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world! Goodness me! EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 4

6:11pm Sat 11 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future.
I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe.
Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?
So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future. I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe. Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not? John Dowdle
  • Score: -1

8:53pm Sat 11 Jan 14

pepsiman says...

Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion pepsiman
  • Score: -4

10:48pm Sat 11 Jan 14

LSC says...

pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
But don't under estimate them. Because of some of the things I have written on this site against organised religion, one particular group managed to find out who I was. Which shouldn't be THAT easy.
Did they confront me? No.
They went to my employer and questioned whether they should payroll someone such as myself, and used pages of out of context and edited quotes which they must have been saving for months, as evidence. They went to a lot of trouble.

Nothing they said was inaccurate, I said it all and stand by it. But they were quotes from larger discussions. Even Tony, who I cross swords with often enough on this subject wouldn't want to see me out of a job because of my views. But these people did, and tried hard.

So beware people; not all religions turn the other cheek and loves their neighbours. Some will hunt you down and attempt to make you jobless and therefore homeless. They won't even talk to you face to face. Cowards and bullies. All for having my own opinion and posting it in a comments section of the Watford Observer website.

What do you make of that, Tony?
[quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]But don't under estimate them. Because of some of the things I have written on this site against organised religion, one particular group managed to find out who I was. Which shouldn't be THAT easy. Did they confront me? No. They went to my employer and questioned whether they should payroll someone such as myself, and used pages of out of context and edited quotes which they must have been saving for months, as evidence. They went to a lot of trouble. Nothing they said was inaccurate, I said it all and stand by it. But they were quotes from larger discussions. Even Tony, who I cross swords with often enough on this subject wouldn't want to see me out of a job because of my views. But these people did, and tried hard. So beware people; not all religions turn the other cheek and loves their neighbours. Some will hunt you down and attempt to make you jobless and therefore homeless. They won't even talk to you face to face. Cowards and bullies. All for having my own opinion and posting it in a comments section of the Watford Observer website. What do you make of that, Tony? LSC
  • Score: 2

11:37pm Sat 11 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

LSC: have you reported their activities to the Charities Commission and asked that they investigate this outfit and their use of charitable funds for inappropriate purposes?
I would.
As a registered charity, they have restrictions placed on their use of their charity's funds.
LSC: have you reported their activities to the Charities Commission and asked that they investigate this outfit and their use of charitable funds for inappropriate purposes? I would. As a registered charity, they have restrictions placed on their use of their charity's funds. John Dowdle
  • Score: 4

11:42pm Sat 11 Jan 14

LSC says...

John Dowdle wrote:
LSC: have you reported their activities to the Charities Commission and asked that they investigate this outfit and their use of charitable funds for inappropriate purposes?
I would.
As a registered charity, they have restrictions placed on their use of their charity's funds.
I'm not sure the lot I'm referring to are even a charity as such John, although they no doubt enjoy all the tax breaks etc. It was NOT the brethren, but I can't say too much, I'm being watched and one typo or glass of wine too many is going to land me in big trouble.
Besides, no doubt they looked into me in their free time.
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: LSC: have you reported their activities to the Charities Commission and asked that they investigate this outfit and their use of charitable funds for inappropriate purposes? I would. As a registered charity, they have restrictions placed on their use of their charity's funds.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure the lot I'm referring to are even a charity as such John, although they no doubt enjoy all the tax breaks etc. It was NOT the brethren, but I can't say too much, I'm being watched and one typo or glass of wine too many is going to land me in big trouble. Besides, no doubt they looked into me in their free time. LSC
  • Score: 0

12:05am Sun 12 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
[quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist. EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 0

9:35am Sun 12 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

LSC wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
LSC: have you reported their activities to the Charities Commission and asked that they investigate this outfit and their use of charitable funds for inappropriate purposes?
I would.
As a registered charity, they have restrictions placed on their use of their charity's funds.
I'm not sure the lot I'm referring to are even a charity as such John, although they no doubt enjoy all the tax breaks etc. It was NOT the brethren, but I can't say too much, I'm being watched and one typo or glass of wine too many is going to land me in big trouble.
Besides, no doubt they looked into me in their free time.
Another possibility is to contact the Planning Department at Dacorum District Council and provide them with the facts, and ask if this sort of ad hominem attack behaviour is what they wish to encourage locally?
This form of behaviour suggests to me - and, I am sure, most reasonable people - that they are not the sort of organisation that Dacorum would want to encourage to base themselves in their area.
This petty, malicious and vindictive behaviour cannot surely be something that anyone would want to encourage?
Even if it is only the result of an individual behaving in this way, this must surely suggest that they are representative of the organisation?
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: LSC: have you reported their activities to the Charities Commission and asked that they investigate this outfit and their use of charitable funds for inappropriate purposes? I would. As a registered charity, they have restrictions placed on their use of their charity's funds.[/p][/quote]I'm not sure the lot I'm referring to are even a charity as such John, although they no doubt enjoy all the tax breaks etc. It was NOT the brethren, but I can't say too much, I'm being watched and one typo or glass of wine too many is going to land me in big trouble. Besides, no doubt they looked into me in their free time.[/p][/quote]Another possibility is to contact the Planning Department at Dacorum District Council and provide them with the facts, and ask if this sort of ad hominem attack behaviour is what they wish to encourage locally? This form of behaviour suggests to me - and, I am sure, most reasonable people - that they are not the sort of organisation that Dacorum would want to encourage to base themselves in their area. This petty, malicious and vindictive behaviour cannot surely be something that anyone would want to encourage? Even if it is only the result of an individual behaving in this way, this must surely suggest that they are representative of the organisation? John Dowdle
  • Score: 2

12:57pm Sun 12 Jan 14

pepsiman says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight! pepsiman
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Sun 12 Jan 14

LSC says...

I've said as much as I dare John. These people have friends in high places, including Hertsmere Council, which is my borough.
I've said as much as I dare John. These people have friends in high places, including Hertsmere Council, which is my borough. LSC
  • Score: 0

4:56pm Sun 12 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
[quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand. EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 0

7:13pm Sun 12 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law".
In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them.
See http://www.nobeliefs
.com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this.
We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too. John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

11:44am Mon 13 Jan 14

garston tony says...

AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is!


2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century....



LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them?

I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.
AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others. garston tony
  • Score: 1

11:46am Mon 13 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy. garston tony
  • Score: 3

12:28pm Mon 13 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law".
In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them.
See http://www.nobeliefs

.com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this.
We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
Firstly, you have started to become offensive, secondly, you have gone so far off topic and are so ill informed as you have now introduced Islam Sunni/Shiite and WW1/WW2 that I can only assume that you have Deists confused with aggressive revealed religions which we are not!. So I cannot engage in your extremists views.
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]Firstly, you have started to become offensive, secondly, you have gone so far off topic and are so ill informed as you have now introduced Islam Sunni/Shiite and WW1/WW2 that I can only assume that you have Deists confused with aggressive revealed religions which we are not!. So I cannot engage in your extremists views. EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 0

8:53pm Mon 13 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.
Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate...........
.....Please!
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.[/p][/quote]Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please! John Dowdle
  • Score: -3

9:01pm Mon 13 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law".
In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them.
See http://www.nobeliefs


.com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this.
We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
Firstly, you have started to become offensive, secondly, you have gone so far off topic and are so ill informed as you have now introduced Islam Sunni/Shiite and WW1/WW2 that I can only assume that you have Deists confused with aggressive revealed religions which we are not!. So I cannot engage in your extremists views.
I am not being offensive; I am being realistic - something you may find hard to understand. I am not a deist and consequently I am not an extremist - I leave that to others such as yourself.
I am an ignostic humanist, i.e. I base my beliefs on real knowledge not outdated books or fanciful philosophies. Deism was a 16th and 17th Century movement which attempted to provide non-realistic explanations for the existence of a non-existent god in the world.
This was, of course, complete nonsense, as there are no gods.
It is truly tragic to see stupid people killing one another in the name of non-existent gods, whether based on theistic or deistic beliefs.
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]Firstly, you have started to become offensive, secondly, you have gone so far off topic and are so ill informed as you have now introduced Islam Sunni/Shiite and WW1/WW2 that I can only assume that you have Deists confused with aggressive revealed religions which we are not!. So I cannot engage in your extremists views.[/p][/quote]I am not being offensive; I am being realistic - something you may find hard to understand. I am not a deist and consequently I am not an extremist - I leave that to others such as yourself. I am an ignostic humanist, i.e. I base my beliefs on real knowledge not outdated books or fanciful philosophies. Deism was a 16th and 17th Century movement which attempted to provide non-realistic explanations for the existence of a non-existent god in the world. This was, of course, complete nonsense, as there are no gods. It is truly tragic to see stupid people killing one another in the name of non-existent gods, whether based on theistic or deistic beliefs. John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

9:09pm Mon 13 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

garston tony wrote:
AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is!


2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century....



LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them?

I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.
Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.[/p][/quote]Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others. John Dowdle
  • Score: -3

9:37pm Mon 13 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

John Dowdle says...

WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous!
John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous! EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 1

10:03pm Mon 13 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
John Dowdle says...

WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous!
Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists.
To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook.
Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.
[quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous![/p][/quote]Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform. John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

11:37am Tue 14 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.
Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please!
JD, its a civil war where you have Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians, Christians fighting alongside Muslims, neighbour fighting neighbour. Only they are not fighting each other because of a difference in religious views, or because they are fed up with their neighbour partying all night and causing them to lose sleep.

They are fighting because there has not been a democracy in that country for decades and along with the many other countries that had a revolution in recent years many Syrians, of all faiths, have decided they want that to change and are willing to fight and die for it. This is a political war not a religious one.

I would point out for all that was wrong in that country Syria before the revolution had a society where there was absolutely no tension between people of different faiths. People were allowed to follow whatever religion they wanted freely and openly with no issue at all. Something that can not be said of this country. Now that there is fighting the divide is not you believe this or that the divide is group one want democracy group two want to maintain the dictatorship.

Stop stirring the poo, your obvious and obviously wrong
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.[/p][/quote]Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please![/p][/quote]JD, its a civil war where you have Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians, Christians fighting alongside Muslims, neighbour fighting neighbour. Only they are not fighting each other because of a difference in religious views, or because they are fed up with their neighbour partying all night and causing them to lose sleep. They are fighting because there has not been a democracy in that country for decades and along with the many other countries that had a revolution in recent years many Syrians, of all faiths, have decided they want that to change and are willing to fight and die for it. This is a political war not a religious one. I would point out for all that was wrong in that country Syria before the revolution had a society where there was absolutely no tension between people of different faiths. People were allowed to follow whatever religion they wanted freely and openly with no issue at all. Something that can not be said of this country. Now that there is fighting the divide is not you believe this or that the divide is group one want democracy group two want to maintain the dictatorship. Stop stirring the poo, your obvious and obviously wrong garston tony
  • Score: 2

11:45am Tue 14 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.
Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.
JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist.

A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them.

You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.[/p][/quote]Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.[/p][/quote]JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist. A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them. You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others garston tony
  • Score: 3

11:47am Tue 14 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous!
Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.
But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself.

What a hypocrite
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous![/p][/quote]Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.[/p][/quote]But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself. What a hypocrite garston tony
  • Score: 3

1:46pm Tue 14 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.
Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please!
JD, its a civil war where you have Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians, Christians fighting alongside Muslims, neighbour fighting neighbour. Only they are not fighting each other because of a difference in religious views, or because they are fed up with their neighbour partying all night and causing them to lose sleep.

They are fighting because there has not been a democracy in that country for decades and along with the many other countries that had a revolution in recent years many Syrians, of all faiths, have decided they want that to change and are willing to fight and die for it. This is a political war not a religious one.

I would point out for all that was wrong in that country Syria before the revolution had a society where there was absolutely no tension between people of different faiths. People were allowed to follow whatever religion they wanted freely and openly with no issue at all. Something that can not be said of this country. Now that there is fighting the divide is not you believe this or that the divide is group one want democracy group two want to maintain the dictatorship.

Stop stirring the poo, your obvious and obviously wrong
Tony: you're right about one thing - before the recent conflict, Syria was a relative haven of tranquility, particularly for Palestinian refugees forced out of their historic lands by racist/religious Zionist forces. Note that the Palestinians included Muslims, Christians and secularists too.
It was religious extremism which drove them out of the "Holy Land" and it is religious extremism which has sparked off the current conflict, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of new refugees.
In essence, it is Saudi and Turkish Sunni extremism - aided and abetted by US and British Christian Zionist extremists, supported by other European racist regimes like France - who are behind the current conflict in Syria, ranged against the Shia forces in Syria, Iran and Lebanon.
On all sides, religious extremism is what is motivating this conflict, which is a literal fight to the death and remarkably similar to the religious wars that Europe experienced in the past for savagery and ferocity.
Of course, our "leaders" think they are so smart that they can encourage this sort of behaviour in order to benefit Israel but we may all end up paying the price for this encouragement of religious extremism when former combatants return back to this country with their newly acquired skills in using bombs and bullets. Ain't our "leaders" real smart?
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.[/p][/quote]Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please![/p][/quote]JD, its a civil war where you have Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians, Christians fighting alongside Muslims, neighbour fighting neighbour. Only they are not fighting each other because of a difference in religious views, or because they are fed up with their neighbour partying all night and causing them to lose sleep. They are fighting because there has not been a democracy in that country for decades and along with the many other countries that had a revolution in recent years many Syrians, of all faiths, have decided they want that to change and are willing to fight and die for it. This is a political war not a religious one. I would point out for all that was wrong in that country Syria before the revolution had a society where there was absolutely no tension between people of different faiths. People were allowed to follow whatever religion they wanted freely and openly with no issue at all. Something that can not be said of this country. Now that there is fighting the divide is not you believe this or that the divide is group one want democracy group two want to maintain the dictatorship. Stop stirring the poo, your obvious and obviously wrong[/p][/quote]Tony: you're right about one thing - before the recent conflict, Syria was a relative haven of tranquility, particularly for Palestinian refugees forced out of their historic lands by racist/religious Zionist forces. Note that the Palestinians included Muslims, Christians and secularists too. It was religious extremism which drove them out of the "Holy Land" and it is religious extremism which has sparked off the current conflict, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of new refugees. In essence, it is Saudi and Turkish Sunni extremism - aided and abetted by US and British Christian Zionist extremists, supported by other European racist regimes like France - who are behind the current conflict in Syria, ranged against the Shia forces in Syria, Iran and Lebanon. On all sides, religious extremism is what is motivating this conflict, which is a literal fight to the death and remarkably similar to the religious wars that Europe experienced in the past for savagery and ferocity. Of course, our "leaders" think they are so smart that they can encourage this sort of behaviour in order to benefit Israel but we may all end up paying the price for this encouragement of religious extremism when former combatants return back to this country with their newly acquired skills in using bombs and bullets. Ain't our "leaders" real smart? John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

1:51pm Tue 14 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous!
Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.
But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself.

What a hypocrite
Firstly, I am not a hypocrite as I am always consistent in my beliefs.
Secondly, I am not an atheist.
Thirdly, I do not spit venom - or anything else for that matter.
Fourthly, I oppose any form of extremist ideology as I prefer the Golden Mean.
It seems you cannot get anything right, does it not?
Perhaps you need to go and lie down in a darkened room until such time as your sanity returns fully - if it ever does, that is.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous![/p][/quote]Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.[/p][/quote]But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself. What a hypocrite[/p][/quote]Firstly, I am not a hypocrite as I am always consistent in my beliefs. Secondly, I am not an atheist. Thirdly, I do not spit venom - or anything else for that matter. Fourthly, I oppose any form of extremist ideology as I prefer the Golden Mean. It seems you cannot get anything right, does it not? Perhaps you need to go and lie down in a darkened room until such time as your sanity returns fully - if it ever does, that is. John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

2:00pm Tue 14 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote:
pepsiman wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion
Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.
And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight!
They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.
Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.
JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.
Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please!
JD, its a civil war where you have Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians, Christians fighting alongside Muslims, neighbour fighting neighbour. Only they are not fighting each other because of a difference in religious views, or because they are fed up with their neighbour partying all night and causing them to lose sleep. They are fighting because there has not been a democracy in that country for decades and along with the many other countries that had a revolution in recent years many Syrians, of all faiths, have decided they want that to change and are willing to fight and die for it. This is a political war not a religious one. I would point out for all that was wrong in that country Syria before the revolution had a society where there was absolutely no tension between people of different faiths. People were allowed to follow whatever religion they wanted freely and openly with no issue at all. Something that can not be said of this country. Now that there is fighting the divide is not you believe this or that the divide is group one want democracy group two want to maintain the dictatorship. Stop stirring the poo, your obvious and obviously wrong
Tony: you're right about one thing - before the recent conflict, Syria was a relative haven of tranquility, particularly for Palestinian refugees forced out of their historic lands by racist/religious Zionist forces. Note that the Palestinians included Muslims, Christians and secularists too. It was religious extremism which drove them out of the "Holy Land" and it is religious extremism which has sparked off the current conflict, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of new refugees. In essence, it is Saudi and Turkish Sunni extremism - aided and abetted by US and British Christian Zionist extremists, supported by other European racist regimes like France - who are behind the current conflict in Syria, ranged against the Shia forces in Syria, Iran and Lebanon. On all sides, religious extremism is what is motivating this conflict, which is a literal fight to the death and remarkably similar to the religious wars that Europe experienced in the past for savagery and ferocity. Of course, our "leaders" think they are so smart that they can encourage this sort of behaviour in order to benefit Israel but we may all end up paying the price for this encouragement of religious extremism when former combatants return back to this country with their newly acquired skills in using bombs and bullets. Ain't our "leaders" real smart?
I dont know what news you have been watching but its blatently from a different planet! Simpleton tv for the doddery and prejudiced

Country after country the populations came out against what they felt where undemocratic leaders, some managed to get the democracy that they wanted without bloodshed, some had to fight for it as they are in Syria.

Just because these are mostly Muslim countries does not make any conflict a religious one, the conflicts were not about one branch of Islam not liking another branch of Islam it is wholly and totally about people wanting democracy. Even today you have people of different faiths or branches of faiths fighting on the same side, you havent a clue do you
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pepsiman[/bold] wrote: Don't encourage them.....the world would be a wonderful place without any religion[/p][/quote]Now that I agree whole heartedly with! That's why I became a Deist.[/p][/quote]And even the Diests have Theists wanting to disagree - result - fight![/p][/quote]They might, I don't!. Disagreement is fine. Healthy debate is fine. War is not!. I don't think you will see Deists and Theists going to war! No do either impose cult style obedience and reprimand.[/p][/quote]Are you for real? Have you taken not notice of what is happening in Syria and places like Iraq? Those people are all deists and theists, and they are killing one another on a daily basis. As for not imposing cult-style obedience and reprimand, they are cold-bloodedly murdering people to ensure exactly that, i.e. that people adhere to so-called sharia "law". In the First and Second World Wars, German soldiers wore belt buckles with the words Gott Mit Uns (meaning God With Us) inscribed on them. See http://www.nobeliefs .com/Hitler1.htm for more information on this. We are all very fortunate that we nowadays live in an increasingly secular world. It is not that long ago that people holding the "wrong" religious beliefs were burned to death publicly in this country too.[/p][/quote]JD you'll find that the conflicts in Syria and Iraq and many other places are not to do with religion but to do with some people wanting to keep power and control and others wanting democracy.[/p][/quote]Tony: you are so off the ball on this issue it is laughable, except that there is a great deal of tragedy associated with it. Can you comment on the extent to which the Turkish and Saudi Wahabist regimes are involved in the conflict and still maintain that extremist religious ideologies are not involved? Can you explain how the Sunni and Shia sects are behind this conflict and how that represents historic movements dating back to the Roman and Persian empires? Yes? Do elaborate........... .....Please![/p][/quote]JD, its a civil war where you have Muslims fighting Muslims, Christians fighting Christians, Christians fighting alongside Muslims, neighbour fighting neighbour. Only they are not fighting each other because of a difference in religious views, or because they are fed up with their neighbour partying all night and causing them to lose sleep. They are fighting because there has not been a democracy in that country for decades and along with the many other countries that had a revolution in recent years many Syrians, of all faiths, have decided they want that to change and are willing to fight and die for it. This is a political war not a religious one. I would point out for all that was wrong in that country Syria before the revolution had a society where there was absolutely no tension between people of different faiths. People were allowed to follow whatever religion they wanted freely and openly with no issue at all. Something that can not be said of this country. Now that there is fighting the divide is not you believe this or that the divide is group one want democracy group two want to maintain the dictatorship. Stop stirring the poo, your obvious and obviously wrong[/p][/quote]Tony: you're right about one thing - before the recent conflict, Syria was a relative haven of tranquility, particularly for Palestinian refugees forced out of their historic lands by racist/religious Zionist forces. Note that the Palestinians included Muslims, Christians and secularists too. It was religious extremism which drove them out of the "Holy Land" and it is religious extremism which has sparked off the current conflict, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of new refugees. In essence, it is Saudi and Turkish Sunni extremism - aided and abetted by US and British Christian Zionist extremists, supported by other European racist regimes like France - who are behind the current conflict in Syria, ranged against the Shia forces in Syria, Iran and Lebanon. On all sides, religious extremism is what is motivating this conflict, which is a literal fight to the death and remarkably similar to the religious wars that Europe experienced in the past for savagery and ferocity. Of course, our "leaders" think they are so smart that they can encourage this sort of behaviour in order to benefit Israel but we may all end up paying the price for this encouragement of religious extremism when former combatants return back to this country with their newly acquired skills in using bombs and bullets. Ain't our "leaders" real smart?[/p][/quote]I dont know what news you have been watching but its blatently from a different planet! Simpleton tv for the doddery and prejudiced Country after country the populations came out against what they felt where undemocratic leaders, some managed to get the democracy that they wanted without bloodshed, some had to fight for it as they are in Syria. Just because these are mostly Muslim countries does not make any conflict a religious one, the conflicts were not about one branch of Islam not liking another branch of Islam it is wholly and totally about people wanting democracy. Even today you have people of different faiths or branches of faiths fighting on the same side, you havent a clue do you garston tony
  • Score: 4

2:06pm Tue 14 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous!
Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.
But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself. What a hypocrite
Firstly, I am not a hypocrite as I am always consistent in my beliefs. Secondly, I am not an atheist. Thirdly, I do not spit venom - or anything else for that matter. Fourthly, I oppose any form of extremist ideology as I prefer the Golden Mean. It seems you cannot get anything right, does it not? Perhaps you need to go and lie down in a darkened room until such time as your sanity returns fully - if it ever does, that is.
JD your comments are consistently full of extreme (wrong) atheist view points and you are most insistent in making them known. It seems its okay in your book to be extremist if youre an atheist.

Also more than one person thinks you spit venom, isnt not being able to see your actions for what they are also potentially a sign of extremism?

You consistently ignore the mainstream religious people of faith who wouldnt say boo to a goose, focus solely on the extremes (which exists in all areas of life not just religion) claim that all people of faith are like that yet quite often act in the same manner yourself. If that isnt hypocrisy what is please?

As to not getting things right, do you understand now that its not the Plymouth Brethren that were pursuing LSC? You do have a habit of running with false claims LONG after they have been disproved
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous![/p][/quote]Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.[/p][/quote]But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself. What a hypocrite[/p][/quote]Firstly, I am not a hypocrite as I am always consistent in my beliefs. Secondly, I am not an atheist. Thirdly, I do not spit venom - or anything else for that matter. Fourthly, I oppose any form of extremist ideology as I prefer the Golden Mean. It seems you cannot get anything right, does it not? Perhaps you need to go and lie down in a darkened room until such time as your sanity returns fully - if it ever does, that is.[/p][/quote]JD your comments are consistently full of extreme (wrong) atheist view points and you are most insistent in making them known. It seems its okay in your book to be extremist if youre an atheist. Also more than one person thinks you spit venom, isnt not being able to see your actions for what they are also potentially a sign of extremism? You consistently ignore the mainstream religious people of faith who wouldnt say boo to a goose, focus solely on the extremes (which exists in all areas of life not just religion) claim that all people of faith are like that yet quite often act in the same manner yourself. If that isnt hypocrisy what is please? As to not getting things right, do you understand now that its not the Plymouth Brethren that were pursuing LSC? You do have a habit of running with false claims LONG after they have been disproved garston tony
  • Score: 3

2:08pm Tue 14 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.
Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.
JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist.

A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them.

You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others
Their claims that the media represents so-called "pipelines of filth" is all part and parcel of an extremist religious cult which attempts to exercise rigid controls over their own "followers" or - as I perceive them - consumers of their particular brand of extremist religion.
They are determined to maintain control over the individuals and families involved, regardless of the harm they cause to them.
If any of their "followers" ever attempt to leave their cult and live a life in the real world, they condemn them and insist that their existing family members ostracise them completely, thus wrecking the family relationships.
They truly are extremists and are properly nasty in character and actions.
Why Dacorum Council should want to encourage such people in their extremism is completely beyond me but - as we have seen with the eruv movement in Hertsmere - extremism seems to have become fashionable locally in recent times - a practice you apparently support wholeheartedly.
Perhaps you are as nasty as they all are?
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.[/p][/quote]Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.[/p][/quote]JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist. A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them. You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others[/p][/quote]Their claims that the media represents so-called "pipelines of filth" is all part and parcel of an extremist religious cult which attempts to exercise rigid controls over their own "followers" or - as I perceive them - consumers of their particular brand of extremist religion. They are determined to maintain control over the individuals and families involved, regardless of the harm they cause to them. If any of their "followers" ever attempt to leave their cult and live a life in the real world, they condemn them and insist that their existing family members ostracise them completely, thus wrecking the family relationships. They truly are extremists and are properly nasty in character and actions. Why Dacorum Council should want to encourage such people in their extremism is completely beyond me but - as we have seen with the eruv movement in Hertsmere - extremism seems to have become fashionable locally in recent times - a practice you apparently support wholeheartedly. Perhaps you are as nasty as they all are? John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

8:46pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
EU_OUT_NOW wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous!
Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.
But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself.

What a hypocrite
To Tony G, EU out now and LSC fancy joining in?

http://www.thebolton
news.co.uk/news/1093
5056.Bolton_Council_
could_get_cash_to_le
t_fracking_companies
_into_borough

sort of turned this into a cannabis debate
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EU_OUT_NOW[/bold] wrote: John Dowdle says... WOW! You just spit venom at everything and every one on here. You sound seriously dangerous![/p][/quote]Only to seriously extremist religious and other ideological activists. To every one else, I have a fairly laid back outlook. Incidentally, I do support the people of Britain having a say on whether or not this country should remain in the EU, provided the debate preceding the referendum is properly informed, unlike the referendum on voting reform.[/p][/quote]But you're obviously okay with extremist atheists, otherwise your days would be filled with spitting venom at yourself. What a hypocrite[/p][/quote]To Tony G, EU out now and LSC fancy joining in? http://www.thebolton news.co.uk/news/1093 5056.Bolton_Council_ could_get_cash_to_le t_fracking_companies _into_borough sort of turned this into a cannabis debate Dr Martin
  • Score: 0

2:45pm Wed 15 Jan 14

garston tony says...

John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.
Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.
JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist. A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them. You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others
Their claims that the media represents so-called "pipelines of filth" is all part and parcel of an extremist religious cult which attempts to exercise rigid controls over their own "followers" or - as I perceive them - consumers of their particular brand of extremist religion. They are determined to maintain control over the individuals and families involved, regardless of the harm they cause to them. If any of their "followers" ever attempt to leave their cult and live a life in the real world, they condemn them and insist that their existing family members ostracise them completely, thus wrecking the family relationships. They truly are extremists and are properly nasty in character and actions. Why Dacorum Council should want to encourage such people in their extremism is completely beyond me but - as we have seen with the eruv movement in Hertsmere - extremism seems to have become fashionable locally in recent times - a practice you apparently support wholeheartedly. Perhaps you are as nasty as they all are?
JD your characterisation of this group does not fit with my own first hand experience of them. Some may have the controlling tendancies (and once again control freaks are not by any stretch of the imagination the preserve of the religious) that you claim, but certainly not all and once again you are tarring the whole with the same brush. You only look at the extremes and by doing that show your own extremist position to all and sundry. Its not me being nasty JD, you are by claiming all sorts about all people of faith

As to their claim about media being a pipeline of filth are you really contesting that? Please say you are because that'll just prove how deluded you are, you only have to take a cursory glance at the tv listings to see programs that are full of filth and promote low moral standards and not just after the watershed either. For all the great programs on tv there are many more awful ones and I say fair play to anyone who chooses not to allow that into their homes.
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.[/p][/quote]Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.[/p][/quote]JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist. A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them. You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others[/p][/quote]Their claims that the media represents so-called "pipelines of filth" is all part and parcel of an extremist religious cult which attempts to exercise rigid controls over their own "followers" or - as I perceive them - consumers of their particular brand of extremist religion. They are determined to maintain control over the individuals and families involved, regardless of the harm they cause to them. If any of their "followers" ever attempt to leave their cult and live a life in the real world, they condemn them and insist that their existing family members ostracise them completely, thus wrecking the family relationships. They truly are extremists and are properly nasty in character and actions. Why Dacorum Council should want to encourage such people in their extremism is completely beyond me but - as we have seen with the eruv movement in Hertsmere - extremism seems to have become fashionable locally in recent times - a practice you apparently support wholeheartedly. Perhaps you are as nasty as they all are?[/p][/quote]JD your characterisation of this group does not fit with my own first hand experience of them. Some may have the controlling tendancies (and once again control freaks are not by any stretch of the imagination the preserve of the religious) that you claim, but certainly not all and once again you are tarring the whole with the same brush. You only look at the extremes and by doing that show your own extremist position to all and sundry. Its not me being nasty JD, you are by claiming all sorts about all people of faith As to their claim about media being a pipeline of filth are you really contesting that? Please say you are because that'll just prove how deluded you are, you only have to take a cursory glance at the tv listings to see programs that are full of filth and promote low moral standards and not just after the watershed either. For all the great programs on tv there are many more awful ones and I say fair play to anyone who chooses not to allow that into their homes. garston tony
  • Score: 3

3:10pm Wed 15 Jan 14

CaptainPC says...

John Dowdle wrote:
So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future.
I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe.
Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?
Dowdle hates religion. Also bears sh!t in the woods.

Do you ever look at your own intolerance and question that?
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future. I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe. Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?[/p][/quote]Dowdle hates religion. Also bears sh!t in the woods. Do you ever look at your own intolerance and question that? CaptainPC
  • Score: 2

11:32pm Wed 15 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

CaptainPC wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future.
I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe.
Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?
Dowdle hates religion. Also bears sh!t in the woods.

Do you ever look at your own intolerance and question that?
You write nonsense: when have you ever witnessed any bears doing anything in any woods? Stick to what you know, not what you think you know.
[quote][p][bold]CaptainPC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future. I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe. Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?[/p][/quote]Dowdle hates religion. Also bears sh!t in the woods. Do you ever look at your own intolerance and question that?[/p][/quote]You write nonsense: when have you ever witnessed any bears doing anything in any woods? Stick to what you know, not what you think you know. John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

12:21am Thu 16 Jan 14

John Dowdle says...

garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
garston tony wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.
Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.
JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist. A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them. You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others
Their claims that the media represents so-called "pipelines of filth" is all part and parcel of an extremist religious cult which attempts to exercise rigid controls over their own "followers" or - as I perceive them - consumers of their particular brand of extremist religion. They are determined to maintain control over the individuals and families involved, regardless of the harm they cause to them. If any of their "followers" ever attempt to leave their cult and live a life in the real world, they condemn them and insist that their existing family members ostracise them completely, thus wrecking the family relationships. They truly are extremists and are properly nasty in character and actions. Why Dacorum Council should want to encourage such people in their extremism is completely beyond me but - as we have seen with the eruv movement in Hertsmere - extremism seems to have become fashionable locally in recent times - a practice you apparently support wholeheartedly. Perhaps you are as nasty as they all are?
JD your characterisation of this group does not fit with my own first hand experience of them. Some may have the controlling tendancies (and once again control freaks are not by any stretch of the imagination the preserve of the religious) that you claim, but certainly not all and once again you are tarring the whole with the same brush. You only look at the extremes and by doing that show your own extremist position to all and sundry. Its not me being nasty JD, you are by claiming all sorts about all people of faith

As to their claim about media being a pipeline of filth are you really contesting that? Please say you are because that'll just prove how deluded you are, you only have to take a cursory glance at the tv listings to see programs that are full of filth and promote low moral standards and not just after the watershed either. For all the great programs on tv there are many more awful ones and I say fair play to anyone who chooses not to allow that into their homes.
Check out http://paulflynnmp.t
ypepad.com/my_weblog
/2012/11/exclusive-b
rethren-the-whole-tr
uth.html and plenty of other sources for details of the true nature of the extremist Brethren.
No one claims that all media are wholesome. However, there is such a thing as an "off" button on all radios and TVs. There are a range of press media which can be chosen which provide decent coverage.
Parents should be the ones to decide what is suitable for their children.
The truth is that claims about so-called "pipelines of filth" simply represent a strategy of control over what people see, think and believe. This cultish sect wants to control their "followers" and keep them constrained within the sect. They are prepared to pursue Mammon and to use their wealth in pursuit of lawfare against anyone they perceive as constituting a threat to their commercial and ideological interests.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: AAA just as they did with the television program I mentioned they probably have a web page to provide information about themselves to those that might be interested in finding out more about them. Can you blame them when people form and propogate an ignorant view of them? How else are they to respond to people who put negative things about them online also? That doesnt really contradict their belief that television and the internet is full of filth, which it is! 2 Timothy, forgive me if i'm wrong but arent the origins of gospel music also without accompaniment and from another century.... LSC, you would similarly denounce this group if they made no attempt at 'PR' for want of a better way of putting it. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They take part in a tv documentory in the hope that people understand their beliefs and way of life better and they are hypocrites, they dont do that and dont have a web page and they'll be accused of being secretive blah blah. Are they hypocrites or are they forced into doing something they dont necessarily want to to counter misconceptions about them? I get that you have to be careful of what you say but I think I can guess which group went after you. I'm also pretty sure that what this group did is not Biblically (or other holy book) sound, which comes back to a point I make often. I totally get why people form a negative impression of religion, they see person x who claims to be y doing something negative and as that is often all they 'know' about a faith they understandably think everyone is like that. The reality is more often than not the total opposite and the actions of the few are not representative of what that faith is about. Hence why i've said many a time people need to find out for themselves about something before making a judgement, because as sad as it is that people give their faiths a bad impressions its equally sad to go through life holding quite ignorant opinions on others.[/p][/quote]Unlike you, Tony, I have no hesitation in condemning the actions of these religious extremists. I do not know LSC personally but he has always been a reasonable blogger and debater. To now witness the fact that these nasty, spiteful, petty-minded, malicious and vindictive individuals have pursued him personally in order to stifle his reasoned criticisms provides food for thought for all those who believe that religion can only ever be considered beneficial. This group clearly has a malignant tendency in its midst. The local council should not be encouraging them to extend out their tentacles of hatred and malignancy towards others.[/p][/quote]JD you should pay more attention because I have denounced extremism many times before on discussions we have had befoe. As per usual you only see and remember what you want to see and remember and are extremely selective. You are an atheist extremist. A prime example of the above is that you are still accusing the Plymouth Brethren of going after LSC despite the fact he has quite clearly stated what TWICE now that it is not them. You are clearly not interested in facts as you are incapable of taking notice of fact when it is slapped in your face. You have your blinkered view and regardless of what evidence to the contrary you are given you plough on regardless. This has been a trait of your comments since the dawn of time and is rather reflective of someone who is full of hate and malignacy towards others[/p][/quote]Their claims that the media represents so-called "pipelines of filth" is all part and parcel of an extremist religious cult which attempts to exercise rigid controls over their own "followers" or - as I perceive them - consumers of their particular brand of extremist religion. They are determined to maintain control over the individuals and families involved, regardless of the harm they cause to them. If any of their "followers" ever attempt to leave their cult and live a life in the real world, they condemn them and insist that their existing family members ostracise them completely, thus wrecking the family relationships. They truly are extremists and are properly nasty in character and actions. Why Dacorum Council should want to encourage such people in their extremism is completely beyond me but - as we have seen with the eruv movement in Hertsmere - extremism seems to have become fashionable locally in recent times - a practice you apparently support wholeheartedly. Perhaps you are as nasty as they all are?[/p][/quote]JD your characterisation of this group does not fit with my own first hand experience of them. Some may have the controlling tendancies (and once again control freaks are not by any stretch of the imagination the preserve of the religious) that you claim, but certainly not all and once again you are tarring the whole with the same brush. You only look at the extremes and by doing that show your own extremist position to all and sundry. Its not me being nasty JD, you are by claiming all sorts about all people of faith As to their claim about media being a pipeline of filth are you really contesting that? Please say you are because that'll just prove how deluded you are, you only have to take a cursory glance at the tv listings to see programs that are full of filth and promote low moral standards and not just after the watershed either. For all the great programs on tv there are many more awful ones and I say fair play to anyone who chooses not to allow that into their homes.[/p][/quote]Check out http://paulflynnmp.t ypepad.com/my_weblog /2012/11/exclusive-b rethren-the-whole-tr uth.html and plenty of other sources for details of the true nature of the extremist Brethren. No one claims that all media are wholesome. However, there is such a thing as an "off" button on all radios and TVs. There are a range of press media which can be chosen which provide decent coverage. Parents should be the ones to decide what is suitable for their children. The truth is that claims about so-called "pipelines of filth" simply represent a strategy of control over what people see, think and believe. This cultish sect wants to control their "followers" and keep them constrained within the sect. They are prepared to pursue Mammon and to use their wealth in pursuit of lawfare against anyone they perceive as constituting a threat to their commercial and ideological interests. John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

8:49am Thu 16 Jan 14

CaptainPC says...

John Dowdle wrote:
CaptainPC wrote:
John Dowdle wrote:
So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future.
I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe.
Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?
Dowdle hates religion. Also bears sh!t in the woods.

Do you ever look at your own intolerance and question that?
You write nonsense: when have you ever witnessed any bears doing anything in any woods? Stick to what you know, not what you think you know.
Erm Banf national park I saw a bear sh1t. It was in the woods.

Do you ever question your own intolerance?
[quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaptainPC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John Dowdle[/bold] wrote: So this outfit - like the scientologists - are being accepted for registration as a charity on the basis that they promise to behave better in future. I am sure Tony will be only too happy to see his tax payments being used to subsidise outfits like this which wreck families in the event of one of their members exercising free choice over what they want to believe. Like all other religions and "religions", this one too is parasitic upon its own dupes as well as on society generally. It would be nice to think that Mr Hales lives a life of poverty, chastity and fidelity but these "religious" leaders are so often found wanting, are they not?[/p][/quote]Dowdle hates religion. Also bears sh!t in the woods. Do you ever look at your own intolerance and question that?[/p][/quote]You write nonsense: when have you ever witnessed any bears doing anything in any woods? Stick to what you know, not what you think you know.[/p][/quote]Erm Banf national park I saw a bear sh1t. It was in the woods. Do you ever question your own intolerance? CaptainPC
  • Score: 0

9:55pm Sat 18 Jan 14

John Wallis says...

A wealth of information about the applicants can be found at www.wikipeebia.com
A wealth of information about the applicants can be found at www.wikipeebia.com John Wallis
  • Score: 2

10:18pm Sat 18 Jan 14

EU_OUT_NOW says...

John Wallis wrote:
A wealth of information about the applicants can be found at www.wikipeebia.com
Definitely trying hard to re-market themselves, aren't they? From their website.

"Emergency Contact

If you want to escape the Exclusive Brethren, this is an excellent place to start. There is a large Helper Network specifically designed to help you. We will not judge you!"
[quote][p][bold]John Wallis[/bold] wrote: A wealth of information about the applicants can be found at www.wikipeebia.com[/p][/quote]Definitely trying hard to re-market themselves, aren't they? From their website. "Emergency Contact If you want to escape the Exclusive Brethren, this is an excellent place to start. There is a large Helper Network specifically designed to help you. We will not judge you!" EU_OUT_NOW
  • Score: 1

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