Watford Junction Station traffic study to take place after London Midland admits redesign 'issues'

Watford Observer: Watford MP Richard Harrington: pleased London Midland and the council are now accepting that something has to be done. Watford MP Richard Harrington: pleased London Midland and the council are now accepting that something has to be done.

A traffic study is due to be taken at Watford Junction station as London Midland has admitted its redesign has caused "issues".

Watford MP, Richard Harrington, said a video study of traffic movements around the station is due to start next week as the train company considers changes to the contentious layout.

London Midland has come under fire from residents and politicians in the town since it finished a £1.3 million redesign of the station last year.

The revamp saw the station’s drop-off bays were removed from the Station Road entrance and a new short stay car park created off Woodford Road. However the new arrangement has seen drivers dumping passengers off in front of the station in moving traffic rather than using the new car park.

The redesign also saw the taxi rank removed from the front of the station so it could be pedestrianised and repositioned along the access road to the station’s car park.

Mr Harrington said he had been in correspondence with Patrick Verwer, the chief executive of London Midland, over the problems and he had agreed the that "both the current taxi process and drop off situation are issues following the station development."

The Conservative MP also said he was due to speak to the Department for Transport regarding National Stations Improvement Project funding to build an exit road from the back of Watford Junction on to St Albans Road.

Richard Harrington added: "After months of hard work and an awful lot of pressure I am pleased that London Midland and the council are now accepting that something has to be done to improve access to Watford Junction Station.

"I have received numerous complaints and feel very strongly that a station design which requires people to drive away from the entrance to access the drop off area, and a bus forecourt with an entrance too narrow for many buses, is clearly not right and has to be rectified.

"Whilst I did hope that this could have been done sooner, I would like to thank the Hackney Carriage Association for their help with the trial, and am glad that we are now one step close to improvements being made."

Comments (31)

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10:01am Thu 27 Feb 14

TRT says...

And do something about the bus station guide whilst you're at it. It disappears into the visual clutter, and when you do find it, it's next to useless at night as it isn't illuminated and has no direct light shining on it.
And do something about the bus station guide whilst you're at it. It disappears into the visual clutter, and when you do find it, it's next to useless at night as it isn't illuminated and has no direct light shining on it. TRT

10:01am Thu 27 Feb 14

TRT says...

I also like that the picture used for the article shows the old (perfectly acceptable and workable!) station frontage.
I also like that the picture used for the article shows the old (perfectly acceptable and workable!) station frontage. TRT

10:27am Thu 27 Feb 14

The Rover says...

An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.
An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road. The Rover

10:31am Thu 27 Feb 14

Shortcake Biscuit says...

Why does it even need a 'traffic study' - just get it changed !!!!!
Why does it even need a 'traffic study' - just get it changed !!!!! Shortcake Biscuit

10:34am Thu 27 Feb 14

TRT says...

The Rover wrote:
An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.
There's been an entrance there for years, it's just rarely used because they keep the gates padlocked. It doesn't, however, help the situation that it could only ever be a one-way entrance.
[quote][p][bold]The Rover[/bold] wrote: An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.[/p][/quote]There's been an entrance there for years, it's just rarely used because they keep the gates padlocked. It doesn't, however, help the situation that it could only ever be a one-way entrance. TRT

10:39am Thu 27 Feb 14

Watford Voice of reason says...

Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks.

Has he even been near the station lately?
Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks. Has he even been near the station lately? Watford Voice of reason

10:53am Thu 27 Feb 14

TRT says...

Watford Voice of reason wrote:
Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks.

Has he even been near the station lately?
If he'd worked a bit harder, he might have persuaded them not to make such a **** up of the job in the first place. The changes cost over £1m and took almost a year . The actual result? Certainly not worth the investment.
[quote][p][bold]Watford Voice of reason[/bold] wrote: Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks. Has he even been near the station lately?[/p][/quote]If he'd worked a bit harder, he might have persuaded them not to make such a **** up of the job in the first place. The changes cost over £1m and took almost a year . The actual result? Certainly not worth the investment. TRT

11:53am Thu 27 Feb 14

Bernard says...

Sorry by our MP is jumping on a bandwagon and had had nothing to do with the video survey etc he clearly read our local leaflet that went out to residents last weekend telling them about the surveys etc.

Mayor Dorothy Thornhill, I and other local councilors have been complain about this layout - imposed on the junction by London Midland the Network Rail since day one (indeed we said before it was built that it would not work ell- again reported in the Observer!

Let us s not forget that no planning permission was needed for this forecourt and it’s not on Watford Council land and Watford Council did not design it!

We were so fed up with issues here this that Dorothy called a meeting with the Directors of both complaints on 15th January .As a result a small working party which I was asked to chair as the local county councilor involving London Midland , Network Rail, Transport for London , Watford Council and Herts County Council was set up. We meet on 13th Feb.

We, not Harrington, agreed – after some pushing of the companies a number of things.

Have all the buses in the forecourt: TfL have resisted this saying there is not enough space for all their buses. This is now to be > tested on site to see if can work and changes can be made.
A ‘drop off’ needed: Dropping off in the main road is dangerous. Video surveys are to be undertaken to assess the problems- these are being done next week . We are pressing for some form of ‘drop-off zone’
closer to the station- maybe even change traffic flows in part of Woodford Road or a further revamp of the forecourt to allow for this.
Taxi ranking- Network Rail land: A problem in the slip road and in Westland Road. A pilot of ranking inside the station car park is being assessed to help resolve this.
More cycle racks needed: This has been agreed!
Another entrance to remove congestion and give better access: This is still being looked and is ‘on the cards’ but may require a lot of funding. Bringing cars in from St Albans Road is one possibility- and that could solve the drop-off issue by giving easy access to platform nine.
The other longer term possibility is access via Colonial Way.

This was only some of things discussed and I am pressing with others for money for a general redesign outline to be looked at – could we bring cars into the station forecourt again for example- could the county or Network Rail fund that design work?.

Whilst major changes are unlikely in the short term they are going to trial some possible
Changes. At last London Midland and Network Rail do accept that its not working s it should and that is no small measures to the pressure from Dorothy and rest of us. Because its not public land both companies could just ignore us I am glad they have not and accented its got to change!

County Councillor Stephen Giles-Medhurst
Lib Dem Central Wattord and Oxhey
Sorry by our MP is jumping on a bandwagon and had had nothing to do with the video survey etc he clearly read our local leaflet that went out to residents last weekend telling them about the surveys etc. Mayor Dorothy Thornhill, I and other local councilors have been complain about this layout - imposed on the junction by London Midland the Network Rail since day one (indeed we said before it was built that it would not work ell- again reported in the Observer! Let us s not forget that no planning permission was needed for this forecourt and it’s not on Watford Council land and Watford Council did not design it! We were so fed up with issues here this that Dorothy called a meeting with the Directors of both complaints on 15th January .As a result a small working party which I was asked to chair as the local county councilor involving London Midland , Network Rail, Transport for London , Watford Council and Herts County Council was set up. We meet on 13th Feb. We, not Harrington, agreed – after some pushing of the companies a number of things. Have all the buses in the forecourt: TfL have resisted this saying there is not enough space for all their buses. This is now to be > tested on site to see if can work and changes can be made. A ‘drop off’ needed: Dropping off in the main road is dangerous. Video surveys are to be undertaken to assess the problems- these are being done next week . We are pressing for some form of ‘drop-off zone’ closer to the station- maybe even change traffic flows in part of Woodford Road or a further revamp of the forecourt to allow for this. Taxi ranking- Network Rail land: A problem in the slip road and in Westland Road. A pilot of ranking inside the station car park is being assessed to help resolve this. More cycle racks needed: This has been agreed! Another entrance to remove congestion and give better access: This is still being looked and is ‘on the cards’ but may require a lot of funding. Bringing cars in from St Albans Road is one possibility- and that could solve the drop-off issue by giving easy access to platform nine. The other longer term possibility is access via Colonial Way. This was only some of things discussed and I am pressing with others for money for a general redesign outline to be looked at – could we bring cars into the station forecourt again for example- could the county or Network Rail fund that design work?. Whilst major changes are unlikely in the short term they are going to trial some possible Changes. At last London Midland and Network Rail do accept that its not working s it should and that is no small measures to the pressure from Dorothy and rest of us. Because its not public land both companies could just ignore us I am glad they have not and accented its got to change! County Councillor Stephen Giles-Medhurst Lib Dem Central Wattord and Oxhey Bernard

12:14pm Thu 27 Feb 14

vickyt34 says...

Seems like our MP is again jumping on a bandwagon. I don’t suppose living in Hampstead he is a frequent user of the station. Not the most direct route Hampstead-Watford-We
stminster. I can’t imagine when he is in his constituency he travels to Watford by train.

Just like the flat he owns in Watford to give the impression he lives in Watford. With a housing crisis no property should be left unoccupied just to hide the fact that the local MP isn't so local.
Seems like our MP is again jumping on a bandwagon. I don’t suppose living in Hampstead he is a frequent user of the station. Not the most direct route Hampstead-Watford-We stminster. I can’t imagine when he is in his constituency he travels to Watford by train. Just like the flat he owns in Watford to give the impression he lives in Watford. With a housing crisis no property should be left unoccupied just to hide the fact that the local MP isn't so local. vickyt34

12:24pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Cuetip says...

TRT wrote:
Watford Voice of reason wrote:
Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks.

Has he even been near the station lately?
If he'd worked a bit harder, he might have persuaded them not to make such a **** up of the job in the first place. The changes cost over £1m and took almost a year . The actual result? Certainly not worth the investment.
Everuyone seems to be claiming credit but it was the long suffering users of the Junction who kept the isue alive with the absurdity of the new arrangements.

Let's hope action is quickly taken and not raising false hope as with common poltical phrases 'we're taking action' as flood levels rose.
[quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Watford Voice of reason[/bold] wrote: Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks. Has he even been near the station lately?[/p][/quote]If he'd worked a bit harder, he might have persuaded them not to make such a **** up of the job in the first place. The changes cost over £1m and took almost a year . The actual result? Certainly not worth the investment.[/p][/quote]Everuyone seems to be claiming credit but it was the long suffering users of the Junction who kept the isue alive with the absurdity of the new arrangements. Let's hope action is quickly taken and not raising false hope as with common poltical phrases 'we're taking action' as flood levels rose. Cuetip

12:26pm Thu 27 Feb 14

pstannard4 says...

I'd say leave it alone.. I think in my own opinion its far better than it was with the taxis too near the entrance
I'd say leave it alone.. I think in my own opinion its far better than it was with the taxis too near the entrance pstannard4

12:27pm Thu 27 Feb 14

vickyt34 says...

vickyt34 wrote:
Seems like our MP is again jumping on a bandwagon. I don’t suppose living in Hampstead he is a frequent user of the station. Not the most direct route Hampstead-Watford-We

stminster. I can’t imagine when he is in his constituency he travels to Watford by train.

Just like the flat he owns in Watford to give the impression he lives in Watford. With a housing crisis no property should be left unoccupied just to hide the fact that the local MP isn't so local.
I wonder who provided the information to Wikipedia that Harrington;
“Has been married for 26 years to Jessie. They have two sons James and Daniel. They live in Watford”

Surely the Harrington camp wouldn't mislead readers into thinking he lives in Watford?
[quote][p][bold]vickyt34[/bold] wrote: Seems like our MP is again jumping on a bandwagon. I don’t suppose living in Hampstead he is a frequent user of the station. Not the most direct route Hampstead-Watford-We stminster. I can’t imagine when he is in his constituency he travels to Watford by train. Just like the flat he owns in Watford to give the impression he lives in Watford. With a housing crisis no property should be left unoccupied just to hide the fact that the local MP isn't so local.[/p][/quote]I wonder who provided the information to Wikipedia that Harrington; “Has been married for 26 years to Jessie. They have two sons James and Daniel. They live in Watford” Surely the Harrington camp wouldn't mislead readers into thinking he lives in Watford? vickyt34

1:39pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Andrew1963 says...

Bernard wrote:
Sorry by our MP is jumping on a bandwagon and had had nothing to do with the video survey etc he clearly read our local leaflet that went out to residents last weekend telling them about the surveys etc.

Mayor Dorothy Thornhill, I and other local councilors have been complain about this layout - imposed on the junction by London Midland the Network Rail since day one (indeed we said before it was built that it would not work ell- again reported in the Observer!

Let us s not forget that no planning permission was needed for this forecourt and it’s not on Watford Council land and Watford Council did not design it!

We were so fed up with issues here this that Dorothy called a meeting with the Directors of both complaints on 15th January .As a result a small working party which I was asked to chair as the local county councilor involving London Midland , Network Rail, Transport for London , Watford Council and Herts County Council was set up. We meet on 13th Feb.

We, not Harrington, agreed – after some pushing of the companies a number of things.

Have all the buses in the forecourt: TfL have resisted this saying there is not enough space for all their buses. This is now to be > tested on site to see if can work and changes can be made.
A ‘drop off’ needed: Dropping off in the main road is dangerous. Video surveys are to be undertaken to assess the problems- these are being done next week . We are pressing for some form of ‘drop-off zone’
closer to the station- maybe even change traffic flows in part of Woodford Road or a further revamp of the forecourt to allow for this.
Taxi ranking- Network Rail land: A problem in the slip road and in Westland Road. A pilot of ranking inside the station car park is being assessed to help resolve this.
More cycle racks needed: This has been agreed!
Another entrance to remove congestion and give better access: This is still being looked and is ‘on the cards’ but may require a lot of funding. Bringing cars in from St Albans Road is one possibility- and that could solve the drop-off issue by giving easy access to platform nine.
The other longer term possibility is access via Colonial Way.

This was only some of things discussed and I am pressing with others for money for a general redesign outline to be looked at – could we bring cars into the station forecourt again for example- could the county or Network Rail fund that design work?.

Whilst major changes are unlikely in the short term they are going to trial some possible
Changes. At last London Midland and Network Rail do accept that its not working s it should and that is no small measures to the pressure from Dorothy and rest of us. Because its not public land both companies could just ignore us I am glad they have not and accented its got to change!

County Councillor Stephen Giles-Medhurst
Lib Dem Central Wattord and Oxhey
I think the issue that needs addressing in the short term is how cars approaching from Clarendon Road and Sttation road can set down passengers safely. Bearing in mind how little space is used by buses couldn't cars simply enter the bus area and set down in a marked off area? Long term solutions like a new back door accessed from Homebase are a long way off. Rather selfishly as i approach WJ from Radlett Road end of Woodford Road, the new short term car park works for me as a drop off, so that could remain and compliment a car set down point in the bus area.
[quote][p][bold]Bernard[/bold] wrote: Sorry by our MP is jumping on a bandwagon and had had nothing to do with the video survey etc he clearly read our local leaflet that went out to residents last weekend telling them about the surveys etc. Mayor Dorothy Thornhill, I and other local councilors have been complain about this layout - imposed on the junction by London Midland the Network Rail since day one (indeed we said before it was built that it would not work ell- again reported in the Observer! Let us s not forget that no planning permission was needed for this forecourt and it’s not on Watford Council land and Watford Council did not design it! We were so fed up with issues here this that Dorothy called a meeting with the Directors of both complaints on 15th January .As a result a small working party which I was asked to chair as the local county councilor involving London Midland , Network Rail, Transport for London , Watford Council and Herts County Council was set up. We meet on 13th Feb. We, not Harrington, agreed – after some pushing of the companies a number of things. Have all the buses in the forecourt: TfL have resisted this saying there is not enough space for all their buses. This is now to be > tested on site to see if can work and changes can be made. A ‘drop off’ needed: Dropping off in the main road is dangerous. Video surveys are to be undertaken to assess the problems- these are being done next week . We are pressing for some form of ‘drop-off zone’ closer to the station- maybe even change traffic flows in part of Woodford Road or a further revamp of the forecourt to allow for this. Taxi ranking- Network Rail land: A problem in the slip road and in Westland Road. A pilot of ranking inside the station car park is being assessed to help resolve this. More cycle racks needed: This has been agreed! Another entrance to remove congestion and give better access: This is still being looked and is ‘on the cards’ but may require a lot of funding. Bringing cars in from St Albans Road is one possibility- and that could solve the drop-off issue by giving easy access to platform nine. The other longer term possibility is access via Colonial Way. This was only some of things discussed and I am pressing with others for money for a general redesign outline to be looked at – could we bring cars into the station forecourt again for example- could the county or Network Rail fund that design work?. Whilst major changes are unlikely in the short term they are going to trial some possible Changes. At last London Midland and Network Rail do accept that its not working s it should and that is no small measures to the pressure from Dorothy and rest of us. Because its not public land both companies could just ignore us I am glad they have not and accented its got to change! County Councillor Stephen Giles-Medhurst Lib Dem Central Wattord and Oxhey[/p][/quote]I think the issue that needs addressing in the short term is how cars approaching from Clarendon Road and Sttation road can set down passengers safely. Bearing in mind how little space is used by buses couldn't cars simply enter the bus area and set down in a marked off area? Long term solutions like a new back door accessed from Homebase are a long way off. Rather selfishly as i approach WJ from Radlett Road end of Woodford Road, the new short term car park works for me as a drop off, so that could remain and compliment a car set down point in the bus area. Andrew1963

1:59pm Thu 27 Feb 14

TRT says...

The state of Woodford Road is shocking. Large dips, uneven surfacing, poor lighting, overparking, bus stands (why do buses insist on standing with hazards on? If another bus pulls up behind them, they look like they are indicating to pull out!).

It's clear to me that whoever studied the area (if that actually happened!) in order to design the new frontage only ever visited there for an hour or so at midday on a week day. They clearly never considered how it works at night, how varying traffic volumes on the approach roads change the behaviour of pedestrians and drivers, the vulnerability of lone night workers or lone female travellers.

The managed to engineer in an extra pedestrian/vehicle interface!
The state of Woodford Road is shocking. Large dips, uneven surfacing, poor lighting, overparking, bus stands (why do buses insist on standing with hazards on? If another bus pulls up behind them, they look like they are indicating to pull out!). It's clear to me that whoever studied the area (if that actually happened!) in order to design the new frontage only ever visited there for an hour or so at midday on a week day. They clearly never considered how it works at night, how varying traffic volumes on the approach roads change the behaviour of pedestrians and drivers, the vulnerability of lone night workers or lone female travellers. The managed to engineer in an extra pedestrian/vehicle interface! TRT

2:26pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Arthur says...

Watford Voice of reason wrote:
Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks.

Has he even been near the station lately?
He lives in NW3 so probably rarely uses Watford Junction Station, more likely Swiss Cottage which is much nearer to his home
[quote][p][bold]Watford Voice of reason[/bold] wrote: Think our MP should invest in some professional PR advice. I he wishes to claim the credit for making London Midland start to see sense, you would think he would want us to see a photo of him at the station as it now looks. Has he even been near the station lately?[/p][/quote]He lives in NW3 so probably rarely uses Watford Junction Station, more likely Swiss Cottage which is much nearer to his home Arthur

2:35pm Thu 27 Feb 14

croxley46 says...

Should NEVER have changed it in the first place.
Should NEVER have changed it in the first place. croxley46

2:42pm Thu 27 Feb 14

CaptainPC says...

This is what happens when you start letting Romanians come in.
This is what happens when you start letting Romanians come in. CaptainPC

3:12pm Thu 27 Feb 14

WessexLad says...

Whatever they decide to do, can it be adequately signed? I'm thinking of the driver who is unfamiliar with the layout arriving at the station during the hours of darkness. It's no wonder people stop to set down in the carriageway because the signage that tells them what they ought to do is almost non-existant.
Whatever they decide to do, can it be adequately signed? I'm thinking of the driver who is unfamiliar with the layout arriving at the station during the hours of darkness. It's no wonder people stop to set down in the carriageway because the signage that tells them what they ought to do is almost non-existant. WessexLad

3:35pm Thu 27 Feb 14

davidhornet says...

This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.
This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust. davidhornet

3:40pm Thu 27 Feb 14

gusgreen says...

Bernard wrote:
Sorry by our MP is jumping on a bandwagon and had had nothing to do with the video survey etc he clearly read our local leaflet that went out to residents last weekend telling them about the surveys etc.

Mayor Dorothy Thornhill, I and other local councilors have been complain about this layout - imposed on the junction by London Midland the Network Rail since day one (indeed we said before it was built that it would not work ell- again reported in the Observer!

Let us s not forget that no planning permission was needed for this forecourt and it’s not on Watford Council land and Watford Council did not design it!

We were so fed up with issues here this that Dorothy called a meeting with the Directors of both complaints on 15th January .As a result a small working party which I was asked to chair as the local county councilor involving London Midland , Network Rail, Transport for London , Watford Council and Herts County Council was set up. We meet on 13th Feb.

We, not Harrington, agreed – after some pushing of the companies a number of things.

Have all the buses in the forecourt: TfL have resisted this saying there is not enough space for all their buses. This is now to be > tested on site to see if can work and changes can be made.
A ‘drop off’ needed: Dropping off in the main road is dangerous. Video surveys are to be undertaken to assess the problems- these are being done next week . We are pressing for some form of ‘drop-off zone’
closer to the station- maybe even change traffic flows in part of Woodford Road or a further revamp of the forecourt to allow for this.
Taxi ranking- Network Rail land: A problem in the slip road and in Westland Road. A pilot of ranking inside the station car park is being assessed to help resolve this.
More cycle racks needed: This has been agreed!
Another entrance to remove congestion and give better access: This is still being looked and is ‘on the cards’ but may require a lot of funding. Bringing cars in from St Albans Road is one possibility- and that could solve the drop-off issue by giving easy access to platform nine.
The other longer term possibility is access via Colonial Way.

This was only some of things discussed and I am pressing with others for money for a general redesign outline to be looked at – could we bring cars into the station forecourt again for example- could the county or Network Rail fund that design work?.

Whilst major changes are unlikely in the short term they are going to trial some possible
Changes. At last London Midland and Network Rail do accept that its not working s it should and that is no small measures to the pressure from Dorothy and rest of us. Because its not public land both companies could just ignore us I am glad they have not and accented its got to change!

County Councillor Stephen Giles-Medhurst
Lib Dem Central Wattord and Oxhey
Spin by the fib dems

Thornhill actually welcomed the changes as a "good" thing for Watford but that was when the election was a long way off are but its now due in a couple of months so let spin another untruth!
[quote][p][bold]Bernard[/bold] wrote: Sorry by our MP is jumping on a bandwagon and had had nothing to do with the video survey etc he clearly read our local leaflet that went out to residents last weekend telling them about the surveys etc. Mayor Dorothy Thornhill, I and other local councilors have been complain about this layout - imposed on the junction by London Midland the Network Rail since day one (indeed we said before it was built that it would not work ell- again reported in the Observer! Let us s not forget that no planning permission was needed for this forecourt and it’s not on Watford Council land and Watford Council did not design it! We were so fed up with issues here this that Dorothy called a meeting with the Directors of both complaints on 15th January .As a result a small working party which I was asked to chair as the local county councilor involving London Midland , Network Rail, Transport for London , Watford Council and Herts County Council was set up. We meet on 13th Feb. We, not Harrington, agreed – after some pushing of the companies a number of things. Have all the buses in the forecourt: TfL have resisted this saying there is not enough space for all their buses. This is now to be > tested on site to see if can work and changes can be made. A ‘drop off’ needed: Dropping off in the main road is dangerous. Video surveys are to be undertaken to assess the problems- these are being done next week . We are pressing for some form of ‘drop-off zone’ closer to the station- maybe even change traffic flows in part of Woodford Road or a further revamp of the forecourt to allow for this. Taxi ranking- Network Rail land: A problem in the slip road and in Westland Road. A pilot of ranking inside the station car park is being assessed to help resolve this. More cycle racks needed: This has been agreed! Another entrance to remove congestion and give better access: This is still being looked and is ‘on the cards’ but may require a lot of funding. Bringing cars in from St Albans Road is one possibility- and that could solve the drop-off issue by giving easy access to platform nine. The other longer term possibility is access via Colonial Way. This was only some of things discussed and I am pressing with others for money for a general redesign outline to be looked at – could we bring cars into the station forecourt again for example- could the county or Network Rail fund that design work?. Whilst major changes are unlikely in the short term they are going to trial some possible Changes. At last London Midland and Network Rail do accept that its not working s it should and that is no small measures to the pressure from Dorothy and rest of us. Because its not public land both companies could just ignore us I am glad they have not and accented its got to change! County Councillor Stephen Giles-Medhurst Lib Dem Central Wattord and Oxhey[/p][/quote]Spin by the fib dems Thornhill actually welcomed the changes as a "good" thing for Watford but that was when the election was a long way off are but its now due in a couple of months so let spin another untruth! gusgreen

4:09pm Thu 27 Feb 14

CaptainPC says...

davidhornet wrote:
This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.
Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic."

Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist.

Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun?

This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.
[quote][p][bold]davidhornet[/bold] wrote: This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.[/p][/quote]Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic." Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist. Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun? This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate. CaptainPC

5:02pm Thu 27 Feb 14

davidhornet says...

CaptainPC wrote:
davidhornet wrote:
This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.
Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic."

Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist.

Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun?

This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.
Lunatic? Troll? Politician?
[quote][p][bold]CaptainPC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davidhornet[/bold] wrote: This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.[/p][/quote]Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic." Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist. Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun? This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.[/p][/quote]Lunatic? Troll? Politician? davidhornet

5:39pm Thu 27 Feb 14

yellow hornet says...

vickyt34 wrote:
Seems like our MP is again jumping on a bandwagon. I don’t suppose living in Hampstead he is a frequent user of the station. Not the most direct route Hampstead-Watford-We

stminster. I can’t imagine when he is in his constituency he travels to Watford by train.

Just like the flat he owns in Watford to give the impression he lives in Watford. With a housing crisis no property should be left unoccupied just to hide the fact that the local MP isn't so local.
This politician makes you feel sick with his false concern. If this man couldn't move to our town after being elected as our MP he certainly won’t get my vote again.

Does he really own a flat in Watford just to make out he lives here?
[quote][p][bold]vickyt34[/bold] wrote: Seems like our MP is again jumping on a bandwagon. I don’t suppose living in Hampstead he is a frequent user of the station. Not the most direct route Hampstead-Watford-We stminster. I can’t imagine when he is in his constituency he travels to Watford by train. Just like the flat he owns in Watford to give the impression he lives in Watford. With a housing crisis no property should be left unoccupied just to hide the fact that the local MP isn't so local.[/p][/quote]This politician makes you feel sick with his false concern. If this man couldn't move to our town after being elected as our MP he certainly won’t get my vote again. Does he really own a flat in Watford just to make out he lives here? yellow hornet

5:56pm Thu 27 Feb 14

D_Penn says...

I'm concerned by this announcement because I'm not sure what a video study of traffic movements will achieve. It's already abundantly clear to us all what the problems are.

There needs to be a simple drop off/pick up facility that does not take twenty minutes to get to in the rush hour; the taxi access needs improving and buses have to be able to get in and out.

No amount of traffic watching is going to solve these problems and the study will just be another typically expensive bureaucratic exercise in spotting the bleedin' obvious.

We can all appreciate that there are conflicting requirements for the limited space available but professional planners really should be able to come up with a good working compromise.

London Midland need to roll up their sleeves, put together a considerably more competent team than the previous failures and this time, get it right.
I'm concerned by this announcement because I'm not sure what a video study of traffic movements will achieve. It's already abundantly clear to us all what the problems are. There needs to be a simple drop off/pick up facility that does not take twenty minutes to get to in the rush hour; the taxi access needs improving and buses have to be able to get in and out. No amount of traffic watching is going to solve these problems and the study will just be another typically expensive bureaucratic exercise in spotting the bleedin' obvious. We can all appreciate that there are conflicting requirements for the limited space available but professional planners really should be able to come up with a good working compromise. London Midland need to roll up their sleeves, put together a considerably more competent team than the previous failures and this time, get it right. D_Penn

8:47pm Thu 27 Feb 14

watford gal says...

Using the buses in and out of the Junction is an absolute shambles. Going to town from Garston isn't too bad. You drive into the bus bit and out the other side. But travelling back in the evenings after work, I can only describe it as having to do a loop the loop....twice ! You drive in, go around in a complete circle, drop off and pick up and then have to do a further loop to get out the exit. The whole thing descends into further chaos when some drivers can't do this manoeuvre and have to reverse back as they've not done the turn properly, and some of us passengers just end up laughing with disbelief and shaking our heads.... What an absolutely blinding piece of town planning ! You couldn't make it up :-) You have to laugh or else you're stuffed !
Using the buses in and out of the Junction is an absolute shambles. Going to town from Garston isn't too bad. You drive into the bus bit and out the other side. But travelling back in the evenings after work, I can only describe it as having to do a loop the loop....twice ! You drive in, go around in a complete circle, drop off and pick up and then have to do a further loop to get out the exit. The whole thing descends into further chaos when some drivers can't do this manoeuvre and have to reverse back as they've not done the turn properly, and some of us passengers just end up laughing with disbelief and shaking our heads.... What an absolutely blinding piece of town planning ! You couldn't make it up :-) You have to laugh or else you're stuffed ! watford gal

10:14pm Thu 27 Feb 14

Maclanx says...

The taxi rank 'issue' cannot be solved without the co-operation of the taxi drivers - unfortunately as a whole they are selfish and disrespectful to all other users. The taxi layout is fine but they can't help parking and driving illegally and discourteously. I would love so much for the law to be upheld and public figures say something but they won't because of the fear of being branded 'racist'.
The taxi rank 'issue' cannot be solved without the co-operation of the taxi drivers - unfortunately as a whole they are selfish and disrespectful to all other users. The taxi layout is fine but they can't help parking and driving illegally and discourteously. I would love so much for the law to be upheld and public figures say something but they won't because of the fear of being branded 'racist'. Maclanx

1:27am Fri 28 Feb 14

Honest Rog says...

The Rover wrote:
An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.
There were outline plans 20 years ago for the building of a road to be built from St Albans Road to link up with Radlett Road. It makes perfect sense on so many levels but politicians have sat on their hands and issued weasel words whilst traffic in the Junction area has ground to a choking, pollution filled halt.
Briefly; the new road, shall we call it Peel Road, would T off St Albans Rd at the traffic lights by Homebase/ TK Max. It would go under/over the St Albans branch railway line and join with Colonial Way then merge with the M1 link road at the Radlett Road roundabout. There would be a spur to accommodate traffic dropping off/parking at the rear of Watford Junction.
No housing or green land would be affected in the project. The only engineering problem would be the crossing of the railway line and the straightening of a kink in Colonial Way which shouldn't present too much hassle as the units on much of this road were built far from the road, maybe with this plan in mind.
Come on Richard, lobby London Midland, HCC and DOE! you know it makes sense.
[quote][p][bold]The Rover[/bold] wrote: An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.[/p][/quote]There were outline plans 20 years ago for the building of a road to be built from St Albans Road to link up with Radlett Road. It makes perfect sense on so many levels but politicians have sat on their hands and issued weasel words whilst traffic in the Junction area has ground to a choking, pollution filled halt. Briefly; the new road, shall we call it Peel Road, would T off St Albans Rd at the traffic lights by Homebase/ TK Max. It would go under/over the St Albans branch railway line and join with Colonial Way then merge with the M1 link road at the Radlett Road roundabout. There would be a spur to accommodate traffic dropping off/parking at the rear of Watford Junction. No housing or green land would be affected in the project. The only engineering problem would be the crossing of the railway line and the straightening of a kink in Colonial Way which shouldn't present too much hassle as the units on much of this road were built far from the road, maybe with this plan in mind. Come on Richard, lobby London Midland, HCC and DOE! you know it makes sense. Honest Rog

11:26am Fri 28 Feb 14

CaptainPC says...

davidhornet wrote:
CaptainPC wrote:
davidhornet wrote:
This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.
Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic."

Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist.

Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun?

This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.
Lunatic? Troll? Politician?
Ah, name calling. I like that. Traffic wtaching plum.
[quote][p][bold]davidhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaptainPC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davidhornet[/bold] wrote: This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.[/p][/quote]Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic." Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist. Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun? This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.[/p][/quote]Lunatic? Troll? Politician?[/p][/quote]Ah, name calling. I like that. Traffic wtaching plum. CaptainPC

11:41am Fri 28 Feb 14

TRT says...

Honest Rog wrote:
The Rover wrote:
An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.
There were outline plans 20 years ago for the building of a road to be built from St Albans Road to link up with Radlett Road. It makes perfect sense on so many levels but politicians have sat on their hands and issued weasel words whilst traffic in the Junction area has ground to a choking, pollution filled halt.
Briefly; the new road, shall we call it Peel Road, would T off St Albans Rd at the traffic lights by Homebase/ TK Max. It would go under/over the St Albans branch railway line and join with Colonial Way then merge with the M1 link road at the Radlett Road roundabout. There would be a spur to accommodate traffic dropping off/parking at the rear of Watford Junction.
No housing or green land would be affected in the project. The only engineering problem would be the crossing of the railway line and the straightening of a kink in Colonial Way which shouldn't present too much hassle as the units on much of this road were built far from the road, maybe with this plan in mind.
Come on Richard, lobby London Midland, HCC and DOE! you know it makes sense.
That plan was part of the regeneration scheme for the concrete batching plant. It was axed by the government spending review a few years ago. It was a grand scheme which saw the regeneration of the whole of the Penn Road industrial estate including Homebase, the concrete batching plant, the sidings etc.
It would have split the bus station between the front and the back of the Junction, a move which I felt would have been confusing for new visitors to Watford, not knowing if they would need to turn left or right at the bottom of the stairs from platforms 6 & 8 if they wanted to go on by bus.
I would have located all the onward transport at the rear of the station with easy access to St. Albans Road and Colonial Way. There wouldn't be an issue with the current bus drop off then!
[quote][p][bold]Honest Rog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Rover[/bold] wrote: An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.[/p][/quote]There were outline plans 20 years ago for the building of a road to be built from St Albans Road to link up with Radlett Road. It makes perfect sense on so many levels but politicians have sat on their hands and issued weasel words whilst traffic in the Junction area has ground to a choking, pollution filled halt. Briefly; the new road, shall we call it Peel Road, would T off St Albans Rd at the traffic lights by Homebase/ TK Max. It would go under/over the St Albans branch railway line and join with Colonial Way then merge with the M1 link road at the Radlett Road roundabout. There would be a spur to accommodate traffic dropping off/parking at the rear of Watford Junction. No housing or green land would be affected in the project. The only engineering problem would be the crossing of the railway line and the straightening of a kink in Colonial Way which shouldn't present too much hassle as the units on much of this road were built far from the road, maybe with this plan in mind. Come on Richard, lobby London Midland, HCC and DOE! you know it makes sense.[/p][/quote]That plan was part of the regeneration scheme for the concrete batching plant. It was axed by the government spending review a few years ago. It was a grand scheme which saw the regeneration of the whole of the Penn Road industrial estate including Homebase, the concrete batching plant, the sidings etc. It would have split the bus station between the front and the back of the Junction, a move which I felt would have been confusing for new visitors to Watford, not knowing if they would need to turn left or right at the bottom of the stairs from platforms 6 & 8 if they wanted to go on by bus. I would have located all the onward transport at the rear of the station with easy access to St. Albans Road and Colonial Way. There wouldn't be an issue with the current bus drop off then! TRT

11:58am Fri 28 Feb 14

D_Penn says...

Honest Rog wrote:
The Rover wrote: An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.
There were outline plans 20 years ago for the building of a road to be built from St Albans Road to link up with Radlett Road. It makes perfect sense on so many levels but politicians have sat on their hands and issued weasel words whilst traffic in the Junction area has ground to a choking, pollution filled halt. Briefly; the new road, shall we call it Peel Road, would T off St Albans Rd at the traffic lights by Homebase/ TK Max. It would go under/over the St Albans branch railway line and join with Colonial Way then merge with the M1 link road at the Radlett Road roundabout. There would be a spur to accommodate traffic dropping off/parking at the rear of Watford Junction. No housing or green land would be affected in the project. The only engineering problem would be the crossing of the railway line and the straightening of a kink in Colonial Way which shouldn't present too much hassle as the units on much of this road were built far from the road, maybe with this plan in mind. Come on Richard, lobby London Midland, HCC and DOE! you know it makes sense.
I like the plan you suggest.

It would help alleviate the problem discussed and, with a few extra details, could help regenerate North Watford which, because of regular and appalling traffic snarl ups, has become known by drivers as a part of town to be avoided if at all possible.

The T junction at Homebase (it's actually Penn Road) should be replaced with a mini-roundabout, as should the junction of St Albans Road/Balmoral Road. Watford Junction traffic has never moved better since the lights were removed and that is a scheme that needs repeating at many junctions across Watford, particularly now that we have so many more flats and houses crammed into the town putting huge pressure on traffic.

Together with the scheme you suggest, it would get the traffic flowing and reduce the endemic traffic queues along St Albans Road. It might help attract people back to using the local shops which is much needed to keep local amenities for those who live in the surrounding area.
[quote][p][bold]Honest Rog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Rover[/bold] wrote: An entrance to the rear of the station from Station Road is a great idea. It will reduce the traffic turning left into Station Road from St Albans Road, and stop so many cars having to do a U-turn outside the station to get back to St Albans Road.[/p][/quote]There were outline plans 20 years ago for the building of a road to be built from St Albans Road to link up with Radlett Road. It makes perfect sense on so many levels but politicians have sat on their hands and issued weasel words whilst traffic in the Junction area has ground to a choking, pollution filled halt. Briefly; the new road, shall we call it Peel Road, would T off St Albans Rd at the traffic lights by Homebase/ TK Max. It would go under/over the St Albans branch railway line and join with Colonial Way then merge with the M1 link road at the Radlett Road roundabout. There would be a spur to accommodate traffic dropping off/parking at the rear of Watford Junction. No housing or green land would be affected in the project. The only engineering problem would be the crossing of the railway line and the straightening of a kink in Colonial Way which shouldn't present too much hassle as the units on much of this road were built far from the road, maybe with this plan in mind. Come on Richard, lobby London Midland, HCC and DOE! you know it makes sense.[/p][/quote]I like the plan you suggest. It would help alleviate the problem discussed and, with a few extra details, could help regenerate North Watford which, because of regular and appalling traffic snarl ups, has become known by drivers as a part of town to be avoided if at all possible. The T junction at Homebase (it's actually Penn Road) should be replaced with a mini-roundabout, as should the junction of St Albans Road/Balmoral Road. Watford Junction traffic has never moved better since the lights were removed and that is a scheme that needs repeating at many junctions across Watford, particularly now that we have so many more flats and houses crammed into the town putting huge pressure on traffic. Together with the scheme you suggest, it would get the traffic flowing and reduce the endemic traffic queues along St Albans Road. It might help attract people back to using the local shops which is much needed to keep local amenities for those who live in the surrounding area. D_Penn

12:02pm Fri 28 Feb 14

Harry's Bar says...

CaptainPC wrote:
davidhornet wrote:
CaptainPC wrote:
davidhornet wrote:
This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.
Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic."

Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist.

Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun?

This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.
Lunatic? Troll? Politician?
Ah, name calling. I like that. Traffic wtaching plum.
Dyslexics of the world, untie!
[quote][p][bold]CaptainPC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davidhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaptainPC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davidhornet[/bold] wrote: This is just the fame hungry and witless (Local politicians) telling the clueless (London Midland) what anyone using the station even once would find blindingly obvious. It has descended into a political argument over who can take the lead and improve their public image, while everyone and anyone who was involved at any stage in the "planning" of this waste of money, accident waiting to happen scheme, ran for cover ages ago. Why did we have to wait for local politicians to start making a noise about this for London Midland to begin to listen? I spent 5 minutes watching the traffic very soon after this "improvement" was done to see the obvious problems and tried to make contact with the organisation but was told that this had to be put in writing and there was no phone number I could call to voice my disgust.[/p][/quote]Please be careful when you are "watching the traffic." Due to the nature of the road surface and the current weather conditions, you may well be soaked to the skin by a hapless motorist. Also if it's so onerous to put your opinions in writing, why are you doing it here for fun? This is what happens when there's a mayoral election with a UKIP candidate.[/p][/quote]Lunatic? Troll? Politician?[/p][/quote]Ah, name calling. I like that. Traffic wtaching plum.[/p][/quote]Dyslexics of the world, untie! Harry's Bar

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