Police to look at sharing role with other emergency services

Watford Observer: Police to look at sharing role with other emergency services Police to look at sharing role with other emergency services

Hertfordshire’s police and crime commissioner said he is looking at "joined-up" functions between the emergency services when he spoke at a national conference on Wednesday.

David Lloyd addressed the conference, organised by the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA), to discuss the integration between blue light services, including how police and fire can work closer together.

Mr Lloyd said that there could be greater cooperation and savings between the emergency services.

He said: "Police and Crime Commissioners across the country, as well as the service chiefs that they work with, will be starting to look at where they sit and where they are heading. Whether you’re looking at service re-engineering or running a more efficient fleet and estate it clearly make business sense to consider the options.

"When it comes to the outcomes we have in mind, I am pretty confident that these are something we can all get behind as well: better service to residents; shorter response times; joined-up and coherent services; reduced cost to the public purse."

He added: "There are also opportunities to have a radical look at how we do business, as well as how we hit our financial targets."

Hertfordshire Constabulary already shares some of its services and back-office functions with neighbouring counties, Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire.

These departments include finance, fleet, estates and facilities, legal services, human resources, professional standards, training, ICT, firearms licensing, custody and crime recording.

Comments (14)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

5:52pm Sat 8 Mar 14

LSC says...

If I'm reading this right, he is suggesting that if I ran a Cheese shop, I could combine it with a local Shoe shop owner and therefore we would both save money.
I suppose we would on the rent of the premises, although my shelf space would be halved. My expert cheese sellers could, I suppose, also sell shoes and vice versa so we could cut down on staff. But for staff to be skilled in both diverse areas might detract from the skill level in either.
We could share an accountant, but as we have different suppliers and customers, we wouldn't gain anything; they'd just work twice as long.

The only thing the emergency services have in common is that they are called the emergency services and all use blue lights.
You cannot make savings by 'bulk buying' vehicles or uniforms or equipment. They all come from different suppliers because they perform completely different functions.

The savings would be peanuts.
If I'm reading this right, he is suggesting that if I ran a Cheese shop, I could combine it with a local Shoe shop owner and therefore we would both save money. I suppose we would on the rent of the premises, although my shelf space would be halved. My expert cheese sellers could, I suppose, also sell shoes and vice versa so we could cut down on staff. But for staff to be skilled in both diverse areas might detract from the skill level in either. We could share an accountant, but as we have different suppliers and customers, we wouldn't gain anything; they'd just work twice as long. The only thing the emergency services have in common is that they are called the emergency services and all use blue lights. You cannot make savings by 'bulk buying' vehicles or uniforms or equipment. They all come from different suppliers because they perform completely different functions. The savings would be peanuts. LSC
  • Score: 9

6:18pm Sat 8 Mar 14

Wacko Jacko says...

LSC wrote:
If I'm reading this right, he is suggesting that if I ran a Cheese shop, I could combine it with a local Shoe shop owner and therefore we would both save money.
I suppose we would on the rent of the premises, although my shelf space would be halved. My expert cheese sellers could, I suppose, also sell shoes and vice versa so we could cut down on staff. But for staff to be skilled in both diverse areas might detract from the skill level in either.
We could share an accountant, but as we have different suppliers and customers, we wouldn't gain anything; they'd just work twice as long.

The only thing the emergency services have in common is that they are called the emergency services and all use blue lights.
You cannot make savings by 'bulk buying' vehicles or uniforms or equipment. They all come from different suppliers because they perform completely different functions.

The savings would be peanuts.
LSC your wisdom never fails to impress me. After all who has ever heard of a shop that sells cheese and shoes, that would be plain daft. You might as wellgo even more silly and add in a butcher, a fishmonger, a clothes shop, a newsagent, a grocer, an electrical appliances shop and a cafe...can't see that lot working together. After all shops like Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury and Morrisons are all failing businesses, right? Doh.
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: If I'm reading this right, he is suggesting that if I ran a Cheese shop, I could combine it with a local Shoe shop owner and therefore we would both save money. I suppose we would on the rent of the premises, although my shelf space would be halved. My expert cheese sellers could, I suppose, also sell shoes and vice versa so we could cut down on staff. But for staff to be skilled in both diverse areas might detract from the skill level in either. We could share an accountant, but as we have different suppliers and customers, we wouldn't gain anything; they'd just work twice as long. The only thing the emergency services have in common is that they are called the emergency services and all use blue lights. You cannot make savings by 'bulk buying' vehicles or uniforms or equipment. They all come from different suppliers because they perform completely different functions. The savings would be peanuts.[/p][/quote]LSC your wisdom never fails to impress me. After all who has ever heard of a shop that sells cheese and shoes, that would be plain daft. You might as wellgo even more silly and add in a butcher, a fishmonger, a clothes shop, a newsagent, a grocer, an electrical appliances shop and a cafe...can't see that lot working together. After all shops like Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury and Morrisons are all failing businesses, right? Doh. Wacko Jacko
  • Score: -2

8:25pm Sat 8 Mar 14

pr76uk says...

LSC, if you are ever unlucky enough to have a car accident or a house fire, make sure you dial 999 three times, once for each emergency service!
LSC, if you are ever unlucky enough to have a car accident or a house fire, make sure you dial 999 three times, once for each emergency service! pr76uk
  • Score: -3

10:33pm Sat 8 Mar 14

LSC says...

To address the above two points. Tescos may well not be a failing retailer, but are they the best retailer with the best product?
The simple answer is No.
If I want a fine suit, I go to Saville Row thanks, but Tescos do sell suits. Perhaps you don't see the difference.
That is because people, for convenience or finance reasons (or because they just don't care) are willing to settle for less than the best when it comes to suits.
When it comes to the emergency services, I will not settle for less than the best. I don't understand anyone that, without going to extremes like a copper on every corner, is willing to.

No, I don't dial 999 three times, I dial once, who then puts me through to an expert capable of assessing priority. In the case of a car accident where someone is injured I am then put through to someone in the ambulance dispatch team able to talk me through CPR, while they press a button or two to summon police and the fire service, if they think they are required from what I report. This has happened to me personally.
The emergency services are not Tescos, although if there is any money in it expect to see Tesco ambulances any day now, and watch the quality decline.
To address the above two points. Tescos may well not be a failing retailer, but are they the best retailer with the best product? The simple answer is No. If I want a fine suit, I go to Saville Row thanks, but Tescos do sell suits. Perhaps you don't see the difference. That is because people, for convenience or finance reasons (or because they just don't care) are willing to settle for less than the best when it comes to suits. When it comes to the emergency services, I will not settle for less than the best. I don't understand anyone that, without going to extremes like a copper on every corner, is willing to. No, I don't dial 999 three times, I dial once, who then puts me through to an expert capable of assessing priority. In the case of a car accident where someone is injured I am then put through to someone in the ambulance dispatch team able to talk me through CPR, while they press a button or two to summon police and the fire service, if they think they are required from what I report. This has happened to me personally. The emergency services are not Tescos, although if there is any money in it expect to see Tesco ambulances any day now, and watch the quality decline. LSC
  • Score: 3

10:54pm Sat 8 Mar 14

LSC says...

To expand the analogy, this police commisioner is a bean-counter, not an expert.
Tescos have some excellent butchers in house, on the shop floor, I can't deny that. But it is bean-counters who run the place, and that is why you were being served horse meat for the sake of profit over service.
To expand the analogy, this police commisioner is a bean-counter, not an expert. Tescos have some excellent butchers in house, on the shop floor, I can't deny that. But it is bean-counters who run the place, and that is why you were being served horse meat for the sake of profit over service. LSC
  • Score: 2

10:11am Sun 9 Mar 14

Harry Caine says...

LSC wrote:
To expand the analogy, this police commisioner is a bean-counter, not an expert.
Tescos have some excellent butchers in house, on the shop floor, I can't deny that. But it is bean-counters who run the place, and that is why you were being served horse meat for the sake of profit over service.
That's why he ran in to trouble with Bedfordshire's PPC when he wanted G4S and Serco involved in police work. Nice piece of blockwork Olly!!
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: To expand the analogy, this police commisioner is a bean-counter, not an expert. Tescos have some excellent butchers in house, on the shop floor, I can't deny that. But it is bean-counters who run the place, and that is why you were being served horse meat for the sake of profit over service.[/p][/quote]That's why he ran in to trouble with Bedfordshire's PPC when he wanted G4S and Serco involved in police work. Nice piece of blockwork Olly!! Harry Caine
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Sun 9 Mar 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Well, I suppose it would be a lot cheaper sending out a Panda car rather than a fire engine to do a locksmiths job... Yes? Not sure how they would get a cat out of a tree? Yes I do. A taser gun, sorted..):):):):
Well, I suppose it would be a lot cheaper sending out a Panda car rather than a fire engine to do a locksmiths job... Yes? Not sure how they would get a cat out of a tree? Yes I do. A taser gun, sorted..):):):): LocalBoy1
  • Score: 0

3:54pm Sun 9 Mar 14

John Dowdle says...

I am prepared to have an open mind on this issue.
We could have a public emergency service with specialist branches.
The use of PCSOs in place of police officers, teachers' assistants in place of teachers, and the use of nurse practitioners in place of doctors provides an existing example of this already taking place.
Arguably, using lower-skilled workers for lower-skill procedures may be acceptable but we all need to insist that where higher-level skills are required that these are publicly funded to the requisite level.
If all public emergency workers are trained in basic first aid skills and the ability to use technology such as breathing apparatus and defibrillators, I think it a good thing. Routine training in the use of fire-fighting technology would also be a good thing for all public emergency workers to have too.
Where I have a reservation, of course, is where this ends up becoming yet another business opportunity for the private security industry to take over our public services, removing democratic accountability in the process.
Over and over again, we have seen private companies asset-strip our public services such as health and education, and they are nowadays making an absolute fortune out of the courts and penal systems.
Ultimately, we all end up paying twice for privately-owned provision.
Once in the form of council tax directly to pay privately-owned companies and their shareholders and huge bonus-receiving company bosses.
Secondly, in the form of central government subsidies to private companies, garnered through our payments of income tax, national insurance contributions and indirect taxation such as VAT, etc.
So, while I have an open mind on this issue, I think we all need to remain vigilant in order to ensure that our futures and the futures of our children are not being mortgaged to a bunch of privateers and asset-strippers.
I am prepared to have an open mind on this issue. We could have a public emergency service with specialist branches. The use of PCSOs in place of police officers, teachers' assistants in place of teachers, and the use of nurse practitioners in place of doctors provides an existing example of this already taking place. Arguably, using lower-skilled workers for lower-skill procedures may be acceptable but we all need to insist that where higher-level skills are required that these are publicly funded to the requisite level. If all public emergency workers are trained in basic first aid skills and the ability to use technology such as breathing apparatus and defibrillators, I think it a good thing. Routine training in the use of fire-fighting technology would also be a good thing for all public emergency workers to have too. Where I have a reservation, of course, is where this ends up becoming yet another business opportunity for the private security industry to take over our public services, removing democratic accountability in the process. Over and over again, we have seen private companies asset-strip our public services such as health and education, and they are nowadays making an absolute fortune out of the courts and penal systems. Ultimately, we all end up paying twice for privately-owned provision. Once in the form of council tax directly to pay privately-owned companies and their shareholders and huge bonus-receiving company bosses. Secondly, in the form of central government subsidies to private companies, garnered through our payments of income tax, national insurance contributions and indirect taxation such as VAT, etc. So, while I have an open mind on this issue, I think we all need to remain vigilant in order to ensure that our futures and the futures of our children are not being mortgaged to a bunch of privateers and asset-strippers. John Dowdle
  • Score: -2

6:30pm Sun 9 Mar 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Whooops!... JD's back, and look, he's written a new book... ):):):):)
Whooops!... JD's back, and look, he's written a new book... ):):):):) LocalBoy1
  • Score: 2

6:36pm Sun 9 Mar 14

John Dowdle says...

Take a look at http://www.opendemoc
racy.net/ourkingdom/
clare-sambrook/fail-
and-prosper-how-priv
atisation-really-wor
ks
Take a look at http://www.opendemoc racy.net/ourkingdom/ clare-sambrook/fail- and-prosper-how-priv atisation-really-wor ks John Dowdle
  • Score: 0

12:06pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Paul Barbara says...

One thing I believe the 'Blue Light' services already share one very dangerous thing in common - the BT Airwave TETRA communication system; I know the police use them, and I believe the Fire and Ambulance services use them too.
The thing about TETRA is that it is extremely dangerous, and the Home Office is fully aware of the fact; when complaints were made to a Home Office doctor about the number of police getting sick because of TETRA, she said 'I do not believe they are sick: they are not sick enough to stop TETRA.'
'Watch 25-minute video Barrie Trower - Danger - Tetra - Microwave Radiation - Cancer ', and/or read the Community Press Group's interview with Barrie 'Wi-Fi – A Thalidomide in the Making. Who Cares?'
It is not only the Emergency Services that are under attack from microwave transmissions.
One thing I believe the 'Blue Light' services already share one very dangerous thing in common - the BT Airwave TETRA communication system; I know the police use them, and I believe the Fire and Ambulance services use them too. The thing about TETRA is that it is extremely dangerous, and the Home Office is fully aware of the fact; when complaints were made to a Home Office doctor about the number of police getting sick because of TETRA, she said 'I do not believe they are sick: they are not sick enough to stop TETRA.' 'Watch 25-minute video Barrie Trower - Danger - Tetra - Microwave Radiation - Cancer ', and/or read the Community Press Group's interview with Barrie 'Wi-Fi – A Thalidomide in the Making. Who Cares?' It is not only the Emergency Services that are under attack from microwave transmissions. Paul Barbara
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Mon 10 Mar 14

garston tony says...

Maybe you wouldnt want a police officer dealing with something that is a firemans area of expertise or vice versa but you could make savings by say the services sharing an HR department or combining to get better deals when purchasing items or sharing other resources. Savings could be made that could mean more spent on the front line or in these times of cuts less cuts to the front line. Whats wrong with that?
Maybe you wouldnt want a police officer dealing with something that is a firemans area of expertise or vice versa but you could make savings by say the services sharing an HR department or combining to get better deals when purchasing items or sharing other resources. Savings could be made that could mean more spent on the front line or in these times of cuts less cuts to the front line. Whats wrong with that? garston tony
  • Score: 3

3:51pm Mon 10 Mar 14

LSC says...

garston tony wrote:
Maybe you wouldnt want a police officer dealing with something that is a firemans area of expertise or vice versa but you could make savings by say the services sharing an HR department or combining to get better deals when purchasing items or sharing other resources. Savings could be made that could mean more spent on the front line or in these times of cuts less cuts to the front line. Whats wrong with that?
Nothing is wrong with that if it is managed correctly, but my fear is that it won't be.
Perhaps Volkswagen make a van that can be a perfect ambulance OR a perfect police van when kitted out and money could be saved by buying in bulk for both services at once. But I suspect that isn't the case. It is more likely that the VW makes an ok ambulance, but a Ford would be better, and an ok police van, although a Mercedes would be perfect for that role.
And thus we enter the world of compromise and buy the VWs because of the savings, meaning we settle for adequate rather than brilliant.

If I'm stuck upside down in a car that is on fire and I have a broken neck, I want brilliant, not adequate thanks!
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: Maybe you wouldnt want a police officer dealing with something that is a firemans area of expertise or vice versa but you could make savings by say the services sharing an HR department or combining to get better deals when purchasing items or sharing other resources. Savings could be made that could mean more spent on the front line or in these times of cuts less cuts to the front line. Whats wrong with that?[/p][/quote]Nothing is wrong with that if it is managed correctly, but my fear is that it won't be. Perhaps Volkswagen make a van that can be a perfect ambulance OR a perfect police van when kitted out and money could be saved by buying in bulk for both services at once. But I suspect that isn't the case. It is more likely that the VW makes an ok ambulance, but a Ford would be better, and an ok police van, although a Mercedes would be perfect for that role. And thus we enter the world of compromise and buy the VWs because of the savings, meaning we settle for adequate rather than brilliant. If I'm stuck upside down in a car that is on fire and I have a broken neck, I want brilliant, not adequate thanks! LSC
  • Score: -1

8:21pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Paul Barbara says...

Hopefully someone will bring to the attention of a police officer, fireman/woman or ambulanceman/woman my comment at 12.06, as it really is likely to impact their or their families lives.
Hopefully someone will bring to the attention of a police officer, fireman/woman or ambulanceman/woman my comment at 12.06, as it really is likely to impact their or their families lives. Paul Barbara
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree