What will it take to get people interested in democracy?

What will it take to get people interested in democracy?

What will it take to get people interested in democracy?

First published in News
Last updated
Watford Observer: Photograph of the Author by , Chief Reporter

There are a few tedious rituals journalists brace themselves for whenever local election season comes around. First off are the habitual accusations of bias from various parties allegedly towards their rivals as the electoral battle ratchets up.

Thankfully, in my career, I have been accused of being "pro" pretty much every party there is. Which I presume brings me full circle back to neutrality. In reality, journalists should treat all political parties with scepticism afforded any group aiming to exert power and control over their fellow citizens.

Second, is the inevitable editorial discussion about how hardly anyone cares about local elections. Reporters who take an interest in local politics (and I include myself in this masochistic demographic) tend to develop an inflated sense of its importance to the wider public. The routinely dire turnouts give a stark account of how unmoved voters are by these ballots.
Fair enough, bin collections and gutter maintenance are hardly stirring political themes.
So perhaps local politicians should tap into more unorthodox initiatives to try to infuse a greater share of the electorate with enough enthusiasm to amble down to the polling booth come May 22.

Having conducted a micro-poll of colleagues and friends, here are a few suggestions of potentially populist measures to dangle before apathetic voters.

Near the top of this list would be reinstalling tills in the intu Watford Apple shop.

For decades, Britons have become used to having a designated place to take and pay for items. It’s an uncomplicated procedure that lends shopping trips a comforting routine. Yet to the trailblazing innovators at Apple, this simplistic affair was an anachronism that needed overhauling and now all their sales assistants carry devices that take payment.

The problem is, that often these wide-eyed Apple aficionados are too busy sermonising to other shoppers about the messianic benefits their products will bestow on those willing to stump up the premium price. The result is the traditional shopper, who just wants to purchase something and leave, has to loiter forlornly trying to catch the eye of the itinerant human tills.

For anyone who struggled to find a partner at a school dance, this process can’t dredge up discomforting memories. Okay, this is hardly the most pressing concern in the town - but it seems to be one that gets people animated.

Another populist measure mooted was making the ring road anti-clockwise. This would mean anyone heading to intu Watford from the M1 would not have to traverse the majority of the ring road to alight at their designation.

Admittedly, it’s an unsexy initiative, but one that would pander to the indolent demographic who find the annual walk to the polling station prohibitively onerous.

One of the more radical suggestions was turning the pond into a ball pond. This would give parents a place to let fractious offspring burn off excess energy before dragging them around the town centre.

Likewise it could also be used to distract the inebriated hordes when they are kicked out of Oceana et al. More aggressive clubbers could be kettled by police in the ball pond to prevent them from starting brawls in kebab shops. Like a sin bin.

Sadly, I doubt these initiatives would survive the rigorous costing and feasibility process to which any serious party would subject them.

But anything aimed at improving our increasingly embarrassing election turnouts can’t be bad. We are looking more and more like a country that has grown bored of democracy.

Comments (133)

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6:45pm Fri 11 Apr 14

Cuetip says...

The problem is that voters have grown used to the way politicians use words to disguise and not to illuminate and in the increasingly diminished poll, people are left so confused that they are surprised that they may have even vote against their own interests.

Truth is rarely seen as an objective as they auction promises simply designed to win on the day. As a result, many regard broken election promises as a severe issue that disaffects people from the entire political process.

This increases apathy and lowering the tribal voter turnout by the parties. Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country.
The problem is that voters have grown used to the way politicians use words to disguise and not to illuminate and in the increasingly diminished poll, people are left so confused that they are surprised that they may have even vote against their own interests. Truth is rarely seen as an objective as they auction promises simply designed to win on the day. As a result, many regard broken election promises as a severe issue that disaffects people from the entire political process. This increases apathy and lowering the tribal voter turnout by the parties. Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country. Cuetip
  • Score: 0

7:52pm Fri 11 Apr 14

phil mitchel says...

' Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country' we've got on of those as Mayor
' Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country' we've got on of those as Mayor phil mitchel
  • Score: 5

12:17am Sat 12 Apr 14

Mike Ribble says...

The main reason for voter apathy is that voting doesn't make any difference. If it did, as the old saying goes, it would have been banned long since.

But if we want to increase the turnout perhaps the answer is to give a free lottery ticket to each person who votes. It doesn't have to be the national lotto; it could be a local scheme with prizes with local connections such as first prize a week on holiday with the Mayor, second prize two weeks holiday with the Mayor etc.
None of the above
I abstain
I only came for the lottery ticket.
The main reason for voter apathy is that voting doesn't make any difference. If it did, as the old saying goes, it would have been banned long since. But if we want to increase the turnout perhaps the answer is to give a free lottery ticket to each person who votes. It doesn't have to be the national lotto; it could be a local scheme with prizes with local connections such as first prize a week on holiday with the Mayor, second prize two weeks holiday with the Mayor etc. None of the above I abstain I only came for the lottery ticket. Mike Ribble
  • Score: 0

12:25pm Sat 12 Apr 14

E.Coli says...

Cuetip wrote:
The problem is that voters have grown used to the way politicians use words to disguise and not to illuminate and in the increasingly diminished poll, people are left so confused that they are surprised that they may have even vote against their own interests.

Truth is rarely seen as an objective as they auction promises simply designed to win on the day. As a result, many regard broken election promises as a severe issue that disaffects people from the entire political process.

This increases apathy and lowering the tribal voter turnout by the parties. Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country.
So you will not be voting then
[quote][p][bold]Cuetip[/bold] wrote: The problem is that voters have grown used to the way politicians use words to disguise and not to illuminate and in the increasingly diminished poll, people are left so confused that they are surprised that they may have even vote against their own interests. Truth is rarely seen as an objective as they auction promises simply designed to win on the day. As a result, many regard broken election promises as a severe issue that disaffects people from the entire political process. This increases apathy and lowering the tribal voter turnout by the parties. Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country.[/p][/quote]So you will not be voting then E.Coli
  • Score: 1

12:29pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

"We are looking more and more like a country that has grown bored of democracy". NO, that is not the case at all, we have grown tired of pointless voting. Our government right down to local authorities including the Lib Dem run WBC just doesn't listen to the people. This country is being trashed by outside forces emanating from Brussels and not one party, with the exception of UKIP, will stand up to the dictators in Brussels. Your all too **** scared! So, yes we are apathetic because the people of this country have been ignored and bullied into submission by career politicians.
"We are looking more and more like a country that has grown bored of democracy". NO, that is not the case at all, we have grown tired of pointless voting. Our government right down to local authorities including the Lib Dem run WBC just doesn't listen to the people. This country is being trashed by outside forces emanating from Brussels and not one party, with the exception of UKIP, will stand up to the dictators in Brussels. Your all too **** scared! So, yes we are apathetic because the people of this country have been ignored and bullied into submission by career politicians. LocalBoy1
  • Score: -2

2:16pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LSC says...

I think local politics does itself no favours by labeling themselves with the national party names. I know people who would never vote (say) Labour on principal. And yet on a local level, the Labour candidate might be the one offering to deliver exactly what that area needs. So they vote for the wrong person for the job or don't vote at all.
I know that 'branding' can carry a lot of weight, but it works both ways. I think regular commenter Phil Cox talks quite a bit of sense in his intentions, should he become mayor.
But I always have in the back of my mind that he is UKIP, a party whose primary policy is to wrestle power from Brussels. Now whether or not I agree with that stance is irrelevant because he won't be doing much of that from Watford Town Hall.
Most of the people on here who challenge him seem to mention the national policies of his party, not the things he actually says about what he would do in Watford.

I'm not singling him out, it goes for them all. Some people will never vote Con because of what Thatcher did to industry, or Labour for taking us into Iraq, or Lib Dem because of tuition fees. All nothing to do with local level politics.

We need more independents; Local people campaigning on Local issues for Local reasons and for the benefit of the majority of Local people.
They are the ones who can count on my vote.
But if you wear a badge that suggests you have the same moral standards as Thatcher, Blair or Clegg, I'll just stay home thanks.
I think local politics does itself no favours by labeling themselves with the national party names. I know people who would never vote (say) Labour on principal. And yet on a local level, the Labour candidate might be the one offering to deliver exactly what that area needs. So they vote for the wrong person for the job or don't vote at all. I know that 'branding' can carry a lot of weight, but it works both ways. I think regular commenter Phil Cox talks quite a bit of sense in his intentions, should he become mayor. But I always have in the back of my mind that he is UKIP, a party whose primary policy is to wrestle power from Brussels. Now whether or not I agree with that stance is irrelevant because he won't be doing much of that from Watford Town Hall. Most of the people on here who challenge him seem to mention the national policies of his party, not the things he actually says about what he would do in Watford. I'm not singling him out, it goes for them all. Some people will never vote Con because of what Thatcher did to industry, or Labour for taking us into Iraq, or Lib Dem because of tuition fees. All nothing to do with local level politics. We need more independents; Local people campaigning on Local issues for Local reasons and for the benefit of the majority of Local people. They are the ones who can count on my vote. But if you wear a badge that suggests you have the same moral standards as Thatcher, Blair or Clegg, I'll just stay home thanks. LSC
  • Score: 3

2:47pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

LSC wrote:
I think local politics does itself no favours by labeling themselves with the national party names. I know people who would never vote (say) Labour on principal. And yet on a local level, the Labour candidate might be the one offering to deliver exactly what that area needs. So they vote for the wrong person for the job or don't vote at all.
I know that 'branding' can carry a lot of weight, but it works both ways. I think regular commenter Phil Cox talks quite a bit of sense in his intentions, should he become mayor.
But I always have in the back of my mind that he is UKIP, a party whose primary policy is to wrestle power from Brussels. Now whether or not I agree with that stance is irrelevant because he won't be doing much of that from Watford Town Hall.
Most of the people on here who challenge him seem to mention the national policies of his party, not the things he actually says about what he would do in Watford.

I'm not singling him out, it goes for them all. Some people will never vote Con because of what Thatcher did to industry, or Labour for taking us into Iraq, or Lib Dem because of tuition fees. All nothing to do with local level politics.

We need more independents; Local people campaigning on Local issues for Local reasons and for the benefit of the majority of Local people.
They are the ones who can count on my vote.
But if you wear a badge that suggests you have the same moral standards as Thatcher, Blair or Clegg, I'll just stay home thanks.
Do you know? This has to be one of the most sensible and profound political comments I have ever seen on the WO. So true!
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: I think local politics does itself no favours by labeling themselves with the national party names. I know people who would never vote (say) Labour on principal. And yet on a local level, the Labour candidate might be the one offering to deliver exactly what that area needs. So they vote for the wrong person for the job or don't vote at all. I know that 'branding' can carry a lot of weight, but it works both ways. I think regular commenter Phil Cox talks quite a bit of sense in his intentions, should he become mayor. But I always have in the back of my mind that he is UKIP, a party whose primary policy is to wrestle power from Brussels. Now whether or not I agree with that stance is irrelevant because he won't be doing much of that from Watford Town Hall. Most of the people on here who challenge him seem to mention the national policies of his party, not the things he actually says about what he would do in Watford. I'm not singling him out, it goes for them all. Some people will never vote Con because of what Thatcher did to industry, or Labour for taking us into Iraq, or Lib Dem because of tuition fees. All nothing to do with local level politics. We need more independents; Local people campaigning on Local issues for Local reasons and for the benefit of the majority of Local people. They are the ones who can count on my vote. But if you wear a badge that suggests you have the same moral standards as Thatcher, Blair or Clegg, I'll just stay home thanks.[/p][/quote]Do you know? This has to be one of the most sensible and profound political comments I have ever seen on the WO. So true! LocalBoy1
  • Score: 3

3:51pm Sat 12 Apr 14

bettysenior says...

There is no such thing anymore as democracy only 'partyocracy', where the elite rule but do not carry out in the true sense of the meaning the wishes of the people - Now politics and corporate power are now running the system for themselves and not for the people - http://worldinnovati
onfoundation.blogspo
t.co.uk/2014/04/demo
cracy-died-death-whe
n-partyocracy.html

Dr David Hill
CEO
World Innovation Foundation
There is no such thing anymore as democracy only 'partyocracy', where the elite rule but do not carry out in the true sense of the meaning the wishes of the people - Now politics and corporate power are now running the system for themselves and not for the people - http://worldinnovati onfoundation.blogspo t.co.uk/2014/04/demo cracy-died-death-whe n-partyocracy.html Dr David Hill CEO World Innovation Foundation bettysenior
  • Score: 2

5:37pm Sat 12 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

Trouble is an independent who gets elected to any local authority which has political associated members will find themselves outvoted, common sense doesn't come into it, herd mentality exists, it doesn't even have to be political, it can also be, members associated with a group will outvote independent, most are scared of raising their head above the parapets, so vote with the rest to be the nice ones!
Trouble is an independent who gets elected to any local authority which has political associated members will find themselves outvoted, common sense doesn't come into it, herd mentality exists, it doesn't even have to be political, it can also be, members associated with a group[s] will outvote independent, most are scared of raising their head above the parapets, so vote with the rest to be the nice ones! cgpc Rob
  • Score: 1

5:39pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LSC says...

bettysenior wrote:
There is no such thing anymore as democracy only 'partyocracy', where the elite rule but do not carry out in the true sense of the meaning the wishes of the people - Now politics and corporate power are now running the system for themselves and not for the people - http://worldinnovati

onfoundation.blogspo

t.co.uk/2014/04/demo

cracy-died-death-whe

n-partyocracy.html

Dr David Hill
CEO
World Innovation Foundation
You need to re-design your website. After 20 minutes browsing it I still have no idea what point you are making or what you actually do, or want to do.
How about a summary for us thickos?
[quote][p][bold]bettysenior[/bold] wrote: There is no such thing anymore as democracy only 'partyocracy', where the elite rule but do not carry out in the true sense of the meaning the wishes of the people - Now politics and corporate power are now running the system for themselves and not for the people - http://worldinnovati onfoundation.blogspo t.co.uk/2014/04/demo cracy-died-death-whe n-partyocracy.html Dr David Hill CEO World Innovation Foundation[/p][/quote]You need to re-design your website. After 20 minutes browsing it I still have no idea what point you are making or what you actually do, or want to do. How about a summary for us thickos? LSC
  • Score: 1

5:52pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LSC says...

cgpc Rob wrote:
Trouble is an independent who gets elected to any local authority which has political associated members will find themselves outvoted, common sense doesn't come into it, herd mentality exists, it doesn't even have to be political, it can also be, members associated with a group will outvote independent, most are scared of raising their head above the parapets, so vote with the rest to be the nice ones!
Sadly very true. Religious groups, freemasons, the rotary club, the womens institute and so on. They will bind together in common interest which does not always mean the best for the ordinary people.
But one can dream...
[quote][p][bold]cgpc Rob[/bold] wrote: Trouble is an independent who gets elected to any local authority which has political associated members will find themselves outvoted, common sense doesn't come into it, herd mentality exists, it doesn't even have to be political, it can also be, members associated with a group[s] will outvote independent, most are scared of raising their head above the parapets, so vote with the rest to be the nice ones![/p][/quote]Sadly very true. Religious groups, freemasons, the rotary club, the womens institute and so on. They will bind together in common interest which does not always mean the best for the ordinary people. But one can dream... LSC
  • Score: -1

6:35pm Sat 12 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

How about anyone standing for an election, should have to declare all groups etc that they or a family member are affiliated to on the ballot paper, so that the electorate know prior to giving them the cross.
How about anyone standing for an election, should have to declare all groups etc that they or a family member are affiliated to on the ballot paper, so that the electorate know prior to giving them the cross. cgpc Rob
  • Score: 1

6:40pm Sat 12 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

I'm a member of the Federation of Small Businesses.

Also common sense on spending party! Which I have just started.
I'm a member of the Federation of Small Businesses. Also common sense on spending party! Which I have just started. cgpc Rob
  • Score: -1

8:00pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

I'm not a member of anything except UKIP.
I'm not a member of anything except UKIP. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

8:23pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

LSC wrote:
bettysenior wrote:
There is no such thing anymore as democracy only 'partyocracy', where the elite rule but do not carry out in the true sense of the meaning the wishes of the people - Now politics and corporate power are now running the system for themselves and not for the people - http://worldinnovati


onfoundation.blogspo


t.co.uk/2014/04/demo


cracy-died-death-whe


n-partyocracy.html

Dr David Hill
CEO
World Innovation Foundation
You need to re-design your website. After 20 minutes browsing it I still have no idea what point you are making or what you actually do, or want to do.
How about a summary for us thickos?
World Innovation Foundation Blog..... It made good sense to me, although if and when humanity ever realise that self destruction is our future. Human arrogance is such that it will be too late!
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bettysenior[/bold] wrote: There is no such thing anymore as democracy only 'partyocracy', where the elite rule but do not carry out in the true sense of the meaning the wishes of the people - Now politics and corporate power are now running the system for themselves and not for the people - http://worldinnovati onfoundation.blogspo t.co.uk/2014/04/demo cracy-died-death-whe n-partyocracy.html Dr David Hill CEO World Innovation Foundation[/p][/quote]You need to re-design your website. After 20 minutes browsing it I still have no idea what point you are making or what you actually do, or want to do. How about a summary for us thickos?[/p][/quote]World Innovation Foundation Blog..... It made good sense to me, although if and when humanity ever realise that self destruction is our future. Human arrogance is such that it will be too late! LocalBoy1
  • Score: 0

8:27pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Sara says...

I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.
I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared. Sara
  • Score: 1

8:35pm Sat 12 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Sara wrote:
I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.
I've got a B & Q pensioners club card, does that count?..):):):
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.[/p][/quote]I've got a B & Q pensioners club card, does that count?..):):): LocalBoy1
  • Score: 1

10:03pm Sat 12 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

I would hazard a guess that I am not the only one shocked at how brazenly Mayor Dorothy Thornhill uses council publications and therefore taxpayers money to promote her own LibDem party.

In my opinion it is morally totally wrong.

That sort of story would cause me to either give up on politics or try to find a party that is above all that.

As a UKIP Mayor I would put a stop to such abuses of power. I would also try to put in safeguards to stop it happening again in future if a future Mayor or administration tried to do the same thing. The council should not be political, it should be as neutral as possible and not open to abuse by any political party.

Some things are just wrong. This is one of them.

No wonder people are put off the politics. I don't know if the Tories or Labour would be any cleaner on this matter. Perhaps the other Mayoral candidates will comment and make an equal pledge.

Until then, vote UKIP.
I would hazard a guess that I am not the only one shocked at how brazenly Mayor Dorothy Thornhill uses council publications and therefore taxpayers money to promote her own LibDem party. In my opinion it is morally totally wrong. That sort of story would cause me to either give up on politics or try to find a party that is above all that. As a UKIP Mayor I would put a stop to such abuses of power. I would also try to put in safeguards to stop it happening again in future if a future Mayor or administration tried to do the same thing. The council should not be political, it should be as neutral as possible and not open to abuse by any political party. Some things are just wrong. This is one of them. No wonder people are put off the politics. I don't know if the Tories or Labour would be any cleaner on this matter. Perhaps the other Mayoral candidates will comment and make an equal pledge. Until then, vote UKIP. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -5

12:58am Sun 13 Apr 14

LSC says...

cgpc Rob wrote:
I'm a member of the Federation of Small Businesses.

Also common sense on spending party! Which I have just started.
That does not tell me enough. Small business is great. But so can be big business. A combination of the two is what I'm after.
I want to shop at a well stocked corner shop, not Tescos, but I want to fly British airways not Ryan Air.
[quote][p][bold]cgpc Rob[/bold] wrote: I'm a member of the Federation of Small Businesses. Also common sense on spending party! Which I have just started.[/p][/quote]That does not tell me enough. Small business is great. But so can be big business. A combination of the two is what I'm after. I want to shop at a well stocked corner shop, not Tescos, but I want to fly British airways not Ryan Air. LSC
  • Score: 0

7:31am Sun 13 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

Sara wrote:
I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.
Why only divulge after getting elected!
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.[/p][/quote]Why only divulge after getting elected! cgpc Rob
  • Score: -1

8:11am Sun 13 Apr 14

Sara says...

cgpc Rob wrote:
Sara wrote:
I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.
Why only divulge after getting elected!
Because I'm not sure very man Abbots Langley residents (if any) are particularly interested. They are interested in what I've done and what I'm going to do and they I expect like the fact that many of them do know me.

And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack.
[quote][p][bold]cgpc Rob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.[/p][/quote]Why only divulge after getting elected![/p][/quote]Because I'm not sure very man Abbots Langley residents (if any) are particularly interested. They are interested in what I've done and what I'm going to do and they I expect like the fact that many of them do know me. And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack. Sara
  • Score: 2

11:15am Sun 13 Apr 14

Popeonarope says...

I would like to see more accountability from those we elect with real transparency on spending. This also means declaring affiliations, personal relationships and business interests.
The Health Campus is an example of where this would be useful to see why Dotty is trying to sell it as a hospital amenity and not just more housing. Credibility is sadly lacking in most politicians at all levels these days.
Less spin, more common sense. Maintain the roads, dredge the rivers, fix the street lighting etc. A new pond and bridge..?

LSC is right; we need officials who are removed from any main party or are at least partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of the town.
I would like to see more accountability from those we elect with real transparency on spending. This also means declaring affiliations, personal relationships and business interests. The Health Campus is an example of where this would be useful to see why Dotty is trying to sell it as a hospital amenity and not just more housing. Credibility is sadly lacking in most politicians at all levels these days. Less spin, more common sense. Maintain the roads, dredge the rivers, fix the street lighting etc. A new pond and bridge..? LSC is right; we need officials who are removed from any main party or are at least partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of the town. Popeonarope
  • Score: 1

12:24pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Nascot says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
I would hazard a guess that I am not the only one shocked at how brazenly Mayor Dorothy Thornhill uses council publications and therefore taxpayers money to promote her own LibDem party.

In my opinion it is morally totally wrong.

That sort of story would cause me to either give up on politics or try to find a party that is above all that.

As a UKIP Mayor I would put a stop to such abuses of power. I would also try to put in safeguards to stop it happening again in future if a future Mayor or administration tried to do the same thing. The council should not be political, it should be as neutral as possible and not open to abuse by any political party.

Some things are just wrong. This is one of them.

No wonder people are put off the politics. I don't know if the Tories or Labour would be any cleaner on this matter. Perhaps the other Mayoral candidates will comment and make an equal pledge.

Until then, vote UKIP.
Seeing as you have a real bee in your bonnet about the council sending out newsletters, please tell us how you would let the people of Watford know of your achievements if you were mayor.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: I would hazard a guess that I am not the only one shocked at how brazenly Mayor Dorothy Thornhill uses council publications and therefore taxpayers money to promote her own LibDem party. In my opinion it is morally totally wrong. That sort of story would cause me to either give up on politics or try to find a party that is above all that. As a UKIP Mayor I would put a stop to such abuses of power. I would also try to put in safeguards to stop it happening again in future if a future Mayor or administration tried to do the same thing. The council should not be political, it should be as neutral as possible and not open to abuse by any political party. Some things are just wrong. This is one of them. No wonder people are put off the politics. I don't know if the Tories or Labour would be any cleaner on this matter. Perhaps the other Mayoral candidates will comment and make an equal pledge. Until then, vote UKIP.[/p][/quote]Seeing as you have a real bee in your bonnet about the council sending out newsletters, please tell us how you would let the people of Watford know of your achievements if you were mayor. Nascot
  • Score: 5

12:47pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Popeonarope wrote:
I would like to see more accountability from those we elect with real transparency on spending. This also means declaring affiliations, personal relationships and business interests.
The Health Campus is an example of where this would be useful to see why Dotty is trying to sell it as a hospital amenity and not just more housing. Credibility is sadly lacking in most politicians at all levels these days.
Less spin, more common sense. Maintain the roads, dredge the rivers, fix the street lighting etc. A new pond and bridge..?

LSC is right; we need officials who are removed from any main party or are at least partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of the town.
Funny you should say that. That's just the platform I am standing on.

It is very hard to get elected when you are standing against a party machine like the LibDems in Watford. It is made harder by their being able to use council literature which should be politically neutral for their own publicity. An independent stands very little chance unless they have deep pockets. Producing enough leaflets to cover the whole of Watford and distributing them to homes is a gargantuan task for an independent.

The next best thing, I believe, is a party that allows their local politicians to do what they need to do to put their constituents first and party second.

This means UKIP politicians in council can and will work in the best interests of the town.

Incidentally, if elected Mayor I have pledged to make Watford a beacon of openness and transparency.

I personally am certainly partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of this town. Please come to our public meeting on 22nd April at the Town and Country Club. You can ask us anything you like. We have Patrick O'Flynn coming along and he is top of our list in this region to become an MEP in the May election. I will also be speaking.

All are welcome.
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more accountability from those we elect with real transparency on spending. This also means declaring affiliations, personal relationships and business interests. The Health Campus is an example of where this would be useful to see why Dotty is trying to sell it as a hospital amenity and not just more housing. Credibility is sadly lacking in most politicians at all levels these days. Less spin, more common sense. Maintain the roads, dredge the rivers, fix the street lighting etc. A new pond and bridge..? LSC is right; we need officials who are removed from any main party or are at least partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of the town.[/p][/quote]Funny you should say that. That's just the platform I am standing on. It is very hard to get elected when you are standing against a party machine like the LibDems in Watford. It is made harder by their being able to use council literature which should be politically neutral for their own publicity. An independent stands very little chance unless they have deep pockets. Producing enough leaflets to cover the whole of Watford and distributing them to homes is a gargantuan task for an independent. The next best thing, I believe, is a party that allows their local politicians to do what they need to do to put their constituents first and party second. This means UKIP politicians in council can and will work in the best interests of the town. Incidentally, if elected Mayor I have pledged to make Watford a beacon of openness and transparency. I personally am certainly partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of this town. Please come to our public meeting on 22nd April at the Town and Country Club. You can ask us anything you like. We have Patrick O'Flynn coming along and he is top of our list in this region to become an MEP in the May election. I will also be speaking. All are welcome. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

1:36pm Sun 13 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

Sara wrote:
cgpc Rob wrote:
Sara wrote:
I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.
Why only divulge after getting elected!
Because I'm not sure very man Abbots Langley residents (if any) are particularly interested. They are interested in what I've done and what I'm going to do and they I expect like the fact that many of them do know me.

And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack.
If you are going to award those organisations public monies through grants etc, then yes, declaration of close family members affiliations might be needed!

Would most cllrs declare an interest if they or a close family member were associated with any group etc requesting funding from local authorities and not take part in any debate or vote which awarded such groups public monies

Is your sister embarrassed by your political views?
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cgpc Rob[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: I'm not sure my memberships and affiliations to groups as diverse as English Heritage and the 92 Club are really going to change anyone's mind. Of course once elected, all such interests must be formally declared.[/p][/quote]Why only divulge after getting elected![/p][/quote]Because I'm not sure very man Abbots Langley residents (if any) are particularly interested. They are interested in what I've done and what I'm going to do and they I expect like the fact that many of them do know me. And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack.[/p][/quote]If you are going to award those organisations public monies through grants etc, then yes, declaration of close family members affiliations might be needed! Would most cllrs declare an interest if they or a close family member were associated with any group etc requesting funding from local authorities and not take part in any debate or vote which awarded such groups public monies Is your sister embarrassed by your political views? cgpc Rob
  • Score: -2

2:59pm Sun 13 Apr 14

LSC says...

"It is very hard to get elected when you are standing against a party machine like the LibDems in Watford. It is made harder by their being able to use council literature which should be politically neutral for their own publicity. An independent stands very little chance unless they have deep pockets. Producing enough leaflets to cover the whole of Watford and distributing them to homes is a gargantuan task for an independent. "

And this is my point. Suppose Watford would benefit from some scheme that happens to clash with your core, National party values. Would you go ahead with it anyway, and risk being cast adrift and losing funding and backing from head office?
The general feeling about politicians is that you wouldn't.

Suppose your party, Nationally, decided that the solution to the housing problem was to build flats on Tennis courts. Tennis courts, they say, benefit only 4 people at a time at most, and because of the length of games, 12 people a day. None in winter. You could get six flats on there. Makes sense.
But suppose Watford had the biggest Tennis ball factory in the world, employing hundreds of people.
Would you put the factory workers out of a job, or lose the party support for defying them and therefore be unable to send out the information that you saved all the jobs and therefore probably be out of a job yourself?

That is where the system falls down.
"It is very hard to get elected when you are standing against a party machine like the LibDems in Watford. It is made harder by their being able to use council literature which should be politically neutral for their own publicity. An independent stands very little chance unless they have deep pockets. Producing enough leaflets to cover the whole of Watford and distributing them to homes is a gargantuan task for an independent. " And this is my point. Suppose Watford would benefit from some scheme that happens to clash with your core, National party values. Would you go ahead with it anyway, and risk being cast adrift and losing funding and backing from head office? The general feeling about politicians is that you wouldn't. Suppose your party, Nationally, decided that the solution to the housing problem was to build flats on Tennis courts. Tennis courts, they say, benefit only 4 people at a time at most, and because of the length of games, 12 people a day. None in winter. You could get six flats on there. Makes sense. But suppose Watford had the biggest Tennis ball factory in the world, employing hundreds of people. Would you put the factory workers out of a job, or lose the party support for defying them and therefore be unable to send out the information that you saved all the jobs and therefore probably be out of a job yourself? That is where the system falls down. LSC
  • Score: -1

3:06pm Sun 13 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

"And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack"........... Do you know? Just for a moment I thought I was on Facebook???
"And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack"........... Do you know? Just for a moment I thought I was on Facebook??? LocalBoy1
  • Score: 1

3:17pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Sara says...

Rob and Phil,
I have already stated that once elected Councillors have to list organisations where they have certain affiliations or control, or where they or family members gave a pecuniary interest.

If there is any possible interest, you must declare, and neither speak, nor vote. On such occasions, most Councillors leave the room. I do exactly that when Three Rivers discusses a grant for the charity Watford & Three Rivers Hone-Start. My only link is that I am a family volunteer. I draw no expenses or other gain, but I find it better to declare in that way.
Rob and Phil, I have already stated that once elected Councillors have to list organisations where they have certain affiliations or control, or where they or family members gave a pecuniary interest. If there is any possible interest, you must declare, and neither speak, nor vote. On such occasions, most Councillors leave the room. I do exactly that when Three Rivers discusses a grant for the charity Watford & Three Rivers Hone-Start. My only link is that I am a family volunteer. I draw no expenses or other gain, but I find it better to declare in that way. Sara
  • Score: 0

3:20pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Sara says...

LocalBoy1 wrote:
"And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack"........... Do you know? Just for a moment I thought I was on Facebook???
You really don't do irony very well... :)
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: "And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack"........... Do you know? Just for a moment I thought I was on Facebook???[/p][/quote]You really don't do irony very well... :) Sara
  • Score: 1

3:30pm Sun 13 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Sara wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
"And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack"........... Do you know? Just for a moment I thought I was on Facebook???
You really don't do irony very well... :)
I can iron very well actually, I am especially good at ironying shirts.. ):):):)
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: "And where does it stop? You want it to extend to close family members. My mother is a member of two Townswomen's Guilds, a Flower Arranging Society and a Poetry Reading Group. My sister, rather embarrassingly, is a member of the Conservative Party (nowhere near here!). I believe my sister in law is a member of the school PTA committee, and my nephew's wife used to run the local Cub pack"........... Do you know? Just for a moment I thought I was on Facebook???[/p][/quote]You really don't do irony very well... :)[/p][/quote]I can iron very well actually, I am especially good at ironying shirts.. ):):):) LocalBoy1
  • Score: 6

5:59pm Sun 13 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

LSC wrote:
I think local politics does itself no favours by labeling themselves with the national party names. I know people who would never vote (say) Labour on principal. And yet on a local level, the Labour candidate might be the one offering to deliver exactly what that area needs. So they vote for the wrong person for the job or don't vote at all.
I know that 'branding' can carry a lot of weight, but it works both ways. I think regular commenter Phil Cox talks quite a bit of sense in his intentions, should he become mayor.
But I always have in the back of my mind that he is UKIP, a party whose primary policy is to wrestle power from Brussels. Now whether or not I agree with that stance is irrelevant because he won't be doing much of that from Watford Town Hall.
Most of the people on here who challenge him seem to mention the national policies of his party, not the things he actually says about what he would do in Watford.

I'm not singling him out, it goes for them all. Some people will never vote Con because of what Thatcher did to industry, or Labour for taking us into Iraq, or Lib Dem because of tuition fees. All nothing to do with local level politics.

We need more independents; Local people campaigning on Local issues for Local reasons and for the benefit of the majority of Local people.
They are the ones who can count on my vote.
But if you wear a badge that suggests you have the same moral standards as Thatcher, Blair or Clegg, I'll just stay home thanks.
I disagree with the separation of national and local, yes it may be an ideal but I don't think it ever happens.
I constantly see the local Libdem administration linking themselves to the national Libdems in Gov, it could be getting Clegg down to the newly opened college, or quoting Laws in Council meetings on the Budget or Baroness Brinton sucking up to her mate Shirley Williams, it could be her former Aide falling out with Lord Rennard over gropegate, or the stance on food banks.
I would say the same with UKIP it does matter that they stand by the local UKIP MEP and he voted against equal ops proposals in the euro parliament, it does matter that the party has other MEPs who think muslims should sign a special register, or that the party has adopted a climate change denial policy, or that it does not like windfarms, it matters because these things feed into local policy. It matters because on issues such as flooding we need to be at the table participating with a whole river solution with the environment agency. It matters because we have a reasonably sized Muslim population in Watford.
As for the credibility of Mr Cox I am still waiting for him to produce a manifesto, and his comments about parking were just silly the ex Councillor spoon fed him the answer and he still did not get it.I dont know why anyone would vote for him, but am sure some will.
In Watford at present the only party that stands a chance of changing things does seem to be the Labour party it could get into double figures this time round and with the GE in 2015 will likely be close to the 17 they need for control of the council.UKIP on the other hand will likely have no cllrs.
The realty is that the best chance of getting rid of the Libdem in Watford is for the anti vote to go to Labour not UKIP therefore if you vote UKIP you get Libdem
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: I think local politics does itself no favours by labeling themselves with the national party names. I know people who would never vote (say) Labour on principal. And yet on a local level, the Labour candidate might be the one offering to deliver exactly what that area needs. So they vote for the wrong person for the job or don't vote at all. I know that 'branding' can carry a lot of weight, but it works both ways. I think regular commenter Phil Cox talks quite a bit of sense in his intentions, should he become mayor. But I always have in the back of my mind that he is UKIP, a party whose primary policy is to wrestle power from Brussels. Now whether or not I agree with that stance is irrelevant because he won't be doing much of that from Watford Town Hall. Most of the people on here who challenge him seem to mention the national policies of his party, not the things he actually says about what he would do in Watford. I'm not singling him out, it goes for them all. Some people will never vote Con because of what Thatcher did to industry, or Labour for taking us into Iraq, or Lib Dem because of tuition fees. All nothing to do with local level politics. We need more independents; Local people campaigning on Local issues for Local reasons and for the benefit of the majority of Local people. They are the ones who can count on my vote. But if you wear a badge that suggests you have the same moral standards as Thatcher, Blair or Clegg, I'll just stay home thanks.[/p][/quote]I disagree with the separation of national and local, yes it may be an ideal but I don't think it ever happens. I constantly see the local Libdem administration linking themselves to the national Libdems in Gov, it could be getting Clegg down to the newly opened college, or quoting Laws in Council meetings on the Budget or Baroness Brinton sucking up to her mate Shirley Williams, it could be her former Aide falling out with Lord Rennard over gropegate, or the stance on food banks. I would say the same with UKIP it does matter that they stand by the local UKIP MEP and he voted against equal ops proposals in the euro parliament, it does matter that the party has other MEPs who think muslims should sign a special register, or that the party has adopted a climate change denial policy, or that it does not like windfarms, it matters because these things feed into local policy. It matters because on issues such as flooding we need to be at the table participating with a whole river solution with the environment agency. It matters because we have a reasonably sized Muslim population in Watford. As for the credibility of Mr Cox I am still waiting for him to produce a manifesto, and his comments about parking were just silly the ex Councillor spoon fed him the answer and he still did not get it.I dont know why anyone would vote for him, but am sure some will. In Watford at present the only party that stands a chance of changing things does seem to be the Labour party it could get into double figures this time round and with the GE in 2015 will likely be close to the 17 they need for control of the council.UKIP on the other hand will likely have no cllrs. The realty is that the best chance of getting rid of the Libdem in Watford is for the anti vote to go to Labour not UKIP therefore if you vote UKIP you get Libdem ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

6:35pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

LSC wrote:
"It is very hard to get elected when you are standing against a party machine like the LibDems in Watford. It is made harder by their being able to use council literature which should be politically neutral for their own publicity. An independent stands very little chance unless they have deep pockets. Producing enough leaflets to cover the whole of Watford and distributing them to homes is a gargantuan task for an independent. "

And this is my point. Suppose Watford would benefit from some scheme that happens to clash with your core, National party values. Would you go ahead with it anyway, and risk being cast adrift and losing funding and backing from head office?
The general feeling about politicians is that you wouldn't.

Suppose your party, Nationally, decided that the solution to the housing problem was to build flats on Tennis courts. Tennis courts, they say, benefit only 4 people at a time at most, and because of the length of games, 12 people a day. None in winter. You could get six flats on there. Makes sense.
But suppose Watford had the biggest Tennis ball factory in the world, employing hundreds of people.
Would you put the factory workers out of a job, or lose the party support for defying them and therefore be unable to send out the information that you saved all the jobs and therefore probably be out of a job yourself?

That is where the system falls down.
This town needs a Mayor who can do good for the town of Watford.

I see myself doing one term only. That could change but I think I can make the difference in that time and I would happily walk away in four years time, job done.

Despite the mischiefmakers comments I am not doing it for the money but for the job that needs to be done.

I am on a mission. A mission to turn this town around, to get the council to become open and transparent, particularly in its financial dealings, and to make this council a council to be proud of and make Watford a town to be proud of.

I want this council to remember who it works for. NOT the LibDem party, but the people of Watford.

WE pay their wages, not Dorothy Thornhill and the sooner the council remembers that the better for the residents of this town.

I have said formally that I would put Watford first and foremost in every decision I make.

My loyalty as Mayor would be to Watford first, party second.

I have promised that and I am a man of my word and I value integrity highly.

It is an honest promise. It's up to the electorate if they want that sort of politician or just more of the same from the other parties.

The feedback I am getting from knocking on doors is that the people of Watford are ready for a positive change.
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: "It is very hard to get elected when you are standing against a party machine like the LibDems in Watford. It is made harder by their being able to use council literature which should be politically neutral for their own publicity. An independent stands very little chance unless they have deep pockets. Producing enough leaflets to cover the whole of Watford and distributing them to homes is a gargantuan task for an independent. " And this is my point. Suppose Watford would benefit from some scheme that happens to clash with your core, National party values. Would you go ahead with it anyway, and risk being cast adrift and losing funding and backing from head office? The general feeling about politicians is that you wouldn't. Suppose your party, Nationally, decided that the solution to the housing problem was to build flats on Tennis courts. Tennis courts, they say, benefit only 4 people at a time at most, and because of the length of games, 12 people a day. None in winter. You could get six flats on there. Makes sense. But suppose Watford had the biggest Tennis ball factory in the world, employing hundreds of people. Would you put the factory workers out of a job, or lose the party support for defying them and therefore be unable to send out the information that you saved all the jobs and therefore probably be out of a job yourself? That is where the system falls down.[/p][/quote]This town needs a Mayor who can do good for the town of Watford. I see myself doing one term only. That could change but I think I can make the difference in that time and I would happily walk away in four years time, job done. Despite the mischiefmakers comments I am not doing it for the money but for the job that needs to be done. I am on a mission. A mission to turn this town around, to get the council to become open and transparent, particularly in its financial dealings, and to make this council a council to be proud of and make Watford a town to be proud of. I want this council to remember who it works for. NOT the LibDem party, but the people of Watford. WE pay their wages, not Dorothy Thornhill and the sooner the council remembers that the better for the residents of this town. I have said formally that I would put Watford first and foremost in every decision I make. My loyalty as Mayor would be to Watford first, party second. I have promised that and I am a man of my word and I value integrity highly. It is an honest promise. It's up to the electorate if they want that sort of politician or just more of the same from the other parties. The feedback I am getting from knocking on doors is that the people of Watford are ready for a positive change. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -3

7:01pm Sun 13 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

Sara wrote:
Rob and Phil,
I have already stated that once elected Councillors have to list organisations where they have certain affiliations or control, or where they or family members gave a pecuniary interest.

If there is any possible interest, you must declare, and neither speak, nor vote. On such occasions, most Councillors leave the room. I do exactly that when Three Rivers discusses a grant for the charity Watford & Three Rivers Hone-Start. My only link is that I am a family volunteer. I draw no expenses or other gain, but I find it better to declare in that way.
Non pecuniary isn't the same as possible prejudicial interest, one is to possibly obtain a financial gain the other is to be able to sway debate/votes in away that might benefit a group requesting funding.

We have a dandy at the moment at CGPC, our esteemed chair cllr mitchell presented a motion requiring cllrs to vote through £450 of public money which is allowed for him to use in his official capacity as chair on official duty or which involved him using his own money and required remuneration!

He stated he wanted to reward volunteers, which he wouldn't inform us of who they were or what they had done in the form of 6x£75 vouchers, I couldn't vote for it but the others did!

Is that how democracy works!!!

It is minuted that cllrs could ask after the vote and the office would inform us!!
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: Rob and Phil, I have already stated that once elected Councillors have to list organisations where they have certain affiliations or control, or where they or family members gave a pecuniary interest. If there is any possible interest, you must declare, and neither speak, nor vote. On such occasions, most Councillors leave the room. I do exactly that when Three Rivers discusses a grant for the charity Watford & Three Rivers Hone-Start. My only link is that I am a family volunteer. I draw no expenses or other gain, but I find it better to declare in that way.[/p][/quote]Non pecuniary isn't the same as possible prejudicial interest, one is to possibly obtain a financial gain the other is to be able to sway debate/votes in away that might benefit a group requesting funding. We have a dandy at the moment at CGPC, our esteemed chair cllr mitchell presented a motion requiring cllrs to vote through £450 of public money which is allowed for him to use in his official capacity as chair on official duty or which involved him using his own money and required remuneration! He stated he wanted to reward volunteers, which he wouldn't inform us of who they were or what they had done in the form of 6x£75 vouchers, I couldn't vote for it but the others did! Is that how democracy works!!! It is minuted that cllrs could ask after the vote and the office would inform us!! cgpc Rob
  • Score: 1

7:02pm Sun 13 Apr 14

cgpc Rob says...

Listed Lid/dems and tories voted for it!!!
Listed Lid/dems and tories voted for it!!! cgpc Rob
  • Score: -1

7:05pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Nascot says...

Nascot wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
I would hazard a guess that I am not the only one shocked at how brazenly Mayor Dorothy Thornhill uses council publications and therefore taxpayers money to promote her own LibDem party.

In my opinion it is morally totally wrong.

That sort of story would cause me to either give up on politics or try to find a party that is above all that.

As a UKIP Mayor I would put a stop to such abuses of power. I would also try to put in safeguards to stop it happening again in future if a future Mayor or administration tried to do the same thing. The council should not be political, it should be as neutral as possible and not open to abuse by any political party.

Some things are just wrong. This is one of them.

No wonder people are put off the politics. I don't know if the Tories or Labour would be any cleaner on this matter. Perhaps the other Mayoral candidates will comment and make an equal pledge.

Until then, vote UKIP.
Seeing as you have a real bee in your bonnet about the council sending out newsletters, please tell us how you would let the people of Watford know of your achievements if you were mayor.
Strangely quiet from Cox to this direct question. Perhaps he is too quick to criticise but has no alternative to the system he is so up in arms about. Again I ask you to respond and let us all know exactly how he would. Over to you Mr UKIP
[quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: I would hazard a guess that I am not the only one shocked at how brazenly Mayor Dorothy Thornhill uses council publications and therefore taxpayers money to promote her own LibDem party. In my opinion it is morally totally wrong. That sort of story would cause me to either give up on politics or try to find a party that is above all that. As a UKIP Mayor I would put a stop to such abuses of power. I would also try to put in safeguards to stop it happening again in future if a future Mayor or administration tried to do the same thing. The council should not be political, it should be as neutral as possible and not open to abuse by any political party. Some things are just wrong. This is one of them. No wonder people are put off the politics. I don't know if the Tories or Labour would be any cleaner on this matter. Perhaps the other Mayoral candidates will comment and make an equal pledge. Until then, vote UKIP.[/p][/quote]Seeing as you have a real bee in your bonnet about the council sending out newsletters, please tell us how you would let the people of Watford know of your achievements if you were mayor.[/p][/quote]Strangely quiet from Cox to this direct question. Perhaps he is too quick to criticise but has no alternative to the system he is so up in arms about. Again I ask you to respond and let us all know exactly how he would. Over to you Mr UKIP Nascot
  • Score: 3

7:46pm Sun 13 Apr 14

D_Penn says...

The Liberal Democrats win in Watford because they are very good at self-promotion and are well funded. Unfortunately, because of voter apathy, that formula is what is most likely to generates electoral success these days and has helped them to hold on to power up till now..

As we have all seen around the democratic world, career politicians muliply, increasingly resembling smiling clones of each other. They live in a world where image and political correctness is everything. Then they get elected and we all discover that there is no substance and often very little in the way of morality either.

Locally the problem is less so, but there is still the question of competence. The Liberal Democrats in Watford have been in power too long and have lost persepective. Spending millions of taxpayers money is now routine. Ignoring local opinion has become second nature.

I believe that voters are sick to the back teeth of all the old parties nationally and locally treating them with contempt and desperately want a new and fresh approach. As a result, we have seen UKIP soar in the polls as more and more recognise that at last there is a real alternative - a party who is not frightened to talk straight and act decisively. UKIP's popularity with ordinary people will inevitably be translated into bucket loads of votes for UKIP right across Watford this May and happily, it terrifies other parties. Good!

Vote UKIP - Get UKIP.
The Liberal Democrats win in Watford because they are very good at self-promotion and are well funded. Unfortunately, because of voter apathy, that formula is what is most likely to generates electoral success these days and has helped them to hold on to power up till now.. As we have all seen around the democratic world, career politicians muliply, increasingly resembling smiling clones of each other. They live in a world where image and political correctness is everything. Then they get elected and we all discover that there is no substance and often very little in the way of morality either. Locally the problem is less so, but there is still the question of competence. The Liberal Democrats in Watford have been in power too long and have lost persepective. Spending millions of taxpayers money is now routine. Ignoring local opinion has become second nature. I believe that voters are sick to the back teeth of all the old parties nationally and locally treating them with contempt and desperately want a new and fresh approach. As a result, we have seen UKIP soar in the polls as more and more recognise that at last there is a real alternative - a party who is not frightened to talk straight and act decisively. UKIP's popularity with ordinary people will inevitably be translated into bucket loads of votes for UKIP right across Watford this May and happily, it terrifies other parties. Good! Vote UKIP - Get UKIP. D_Penn
  • Score: -2

7:49pm Sun 13 Apr 14

LSC says...

"I have said formally that I would put Watford first and foremost in every decision I make. "

I actually think I believe you, but a lot won't. We aren't used to politicians with integrity 'round these parts, although I do know one or two.

But would you really defy the party line and risk unemployment by the withdrawal of funding and support for the sake of some people who didn't even vote, let alone for vote for you if they did? Risk your mortgage, feeding your family, for political principal?

You have a LONG way to go before people believe it, especially when history and current events say politicians simply don't do that.

I wish you luck though; perhaps you are what you say you are.
"I have said formally that I would put Watford first and foremost in every decision I make. " I actually think I believe you, but a lot won't. We aren't used to politicians with integrity 'round these parts, although I do know one or two. But would you really defy the party line and risk unemployment by the withdrawal of funding and support for the sake of some people who didn't even vote, let alone for vote for you if they did? Risk your mortgage, feeding your family, for political principal? You have a LONG way to go before people believe it, especially when history and current events say politicians simply don't do that. I wish you luck though; perhaps you are what you say you are. LSC
  • Score: -1

7:51pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

I will look at the costs before a final decision, but my thinking is going along these lines.

To be honest I would like to see the back of council-funded party political self-promotion in terms of publications delivered to every household in Watford.

Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction.

The savings will be worthwhile and can be used better elsewhere.

Also, any publishing by the council, either online or paper-based should be as independent of political influence as possible. I would like to see this written into the council constitution to make it difficult for future politicians to change. Perhaps we can find some way of making it subject to a referendum if a change is desired so that the voters know about future local politicians getting up to their tricks again.

This time it is the LibDems using public money to promote their brand but who is to say that if presented with the same opportunity the Labour or Conservative party would not do the same?
I will look at the costs before a final decision, but my thinking is going along these lines. To be honest I would like to see the back of council-funded party political self-promotion in terms of publications delivered to every household in Watford. Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction. The savings will be worthwhile and can be used better elsewhere. Also, any publishing by the council, either online or paper-based should be as independent of political influence as possible. I would like to see this written into the council constitution to make it difficult for future politicians to change. Perhaps we can find some way of making it subject to a referendum if a change is desired so that the voters know about future local politicians getting up to their tricks again. This time it is the LibDems using public money to promote their brand but who is to say that if presented with the same opportunity the Labour or Conservative party would not do the same? Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -4

10:01pm Sun 13 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

@phil Cox you are deluded if you think any incoming mayor will be able to do any of the things you say whilst the Libdems maintain a majority on the council and the one thing that is certain is that they will, that is with 24 cllrs and defending 7 or 8 seats they only have to hold onto Oxhey and Stanbourough to maintain a comfortable absolute majority. That is a fact.
Now you will not win in my opinion, nor will you get any cllrs, but you kknow what I could be wrong ( I very much doubt it), lets say you win and get 2 cllrs what will you be able to do nowt.
On the other hand if labour do well and end up with ten or eleven cllrs, that is within touching distance of a majority in 2015, and enough cllrs to hold the ruling group to account in a real and meaningful way.
If you vote UKIP in the local and Mayor election the outcome will be a Libdem council, that is the political reality in Watford

Vote UKIP get Libdem
@phil Cox you are deluded if you think any incoming mayor will be able to do any of the things you say whilst the Libdems maintain a majority on the council and the one thing that is certain is that they will, that is with 24 cllrs and defending 7 or 8 seats they only have to hold onto Oxhey and Stanbourough to maintain a comfortable absolute majority. That is a fact. Now you will not win in my opinion, nor will you get any cllrs, but you kknow what I could be wrong ( I very much doubt it), lets say you win and get 2 cllrs what will you be able to do nowt. On the other hand if labour do well and end up with ten or eleven cllrs, that is within touching distance of a majority in 2015, and enough cllrs to hold the ruling group to account in a real and meaningful way. If you vote UKIP in the local and Mayor election the outcome will be a Libdem council, that is the political reality in Watford Vote UKIP get Libdem ancientandageing
  • Score: -2

10:26pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

LSC wrote:
"I have said formally that I would put Watford first and foremost in every decision I make. "

I actually think I believe you, but a lot won't. We aren't used to politicians with integrity 'round these parts, although I do know one or two.

But would you really defy the party line and risk unemployment by the withdrawal of funding and support for the sake of some people who didn't even vote, let alone for vote for you if they did? Risk your mortgage, feeding your family, for political principal?

You have a LONG way to go before people believe it, especially when history and current events say politicians simply don't do that.

I wish you luck though; perhaps you are what you say you are.
LSC,

I am in the very fortunate position of being largely insulated from such worries. I am not the sort of person who remains unemployed and there are plenty of interesting projects ahead for me if I do not become Mayor. Getting the job of Mayor or losing it is of no great consequence to me.

Therefore finding myself in the position of choosing Watford over UKIP has no consequence for me either.

I intend to become the Mayor of Watford, not the Mayor of UKIP.

That said, I agree with UKIP philosophy on the whole and I can see the benefits such an approach could bring to a town like Watford.

I want the job of Mayor, don't get me wrong. I want the opportunity to show how a council should be run in an honest and open way, running efficiently with a real emphasis on customer service.

I can deliver that for Watford.

For the others it's not even on their agenda.

Maybe other politicians simply don't do that. I am most certainly not other politicians.
[quote][p][bold]LSC[/bold] wrote: "I have said formally that I would put Watford first and foremost in every decision I make. " I actually think I believe you, but a lot won't. We aren't used to politicians with integrity 'round these parts, although I do know one or two. But would you really defy the party line and risk unemployment by the withdrawal of funding and support for the sake of some people who didn't even vote, let alone for vote for you if they did? Risk your mortgage, feeding your family, for political principal? You have a LONG way to go before people believe it, especially when history and current events say politicians simply don't do that. I wish you luck though; perhaps you are what you say you are.[/p][/quote]LSC, I am in the very fortunate position of being largely insulated from such worries. I am not the sort of person who remains unemployed and there are plenty of interesting projects ahead for me if I do not become Mayor. Getting the job of Mayor or losing it is of no great consequence to me. Therefore finding myself in the position of choosing Watford over UKIP has no consequence for me either. I intend to become the Mayor of Watford, not the Mayor of UKIP. That said, I agree with UKIP philosophy on the whole and I can see the benefits such an approach could bring to a town like Watford. I want the job of Mayor, don't get me wrong. I want the opportunity to show how a council should be run in an honest and open way, running efficiently with a real emphasis on customer service. I can deliver that for Watford. For the others it's not even on their agenda. Maybe other politicians simply don't do that. I am most certainly not other politicians. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

10:42pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?"

My answer is this.

It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well.

It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected.

Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off.

Maria Miller and her greed.

Nick Clegg and his blatant lies.

Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times.

The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government.

These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy.

It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy.

Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy.

UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP.

There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.
Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?" My answer is this. It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well. It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected. Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off. Maria Miller and her greed. Nick Clegg and his blatant lies. Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times. The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government. These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy. It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy. Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy. UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP. There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

10:43pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Nascot says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
I will look at the costs before a final decision, but my thinking is going along these lines.

To be honest I would like to see the back of council-funded party political self-promotion in terms of publications delivered to every household in Watford.

Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction.

The savings will be worthwhile and can be used better elsewhere.

Also, any publishing by the council, either online or paper-based should be as independent of political influence as possible. I would like to see this written into the council constitution to make it difficult for future politicians to change. Perhaps we can find some way of making it subject to a referendum if a change is desired so that the voters know about future local politicians getting up to their tricks again.

This time it is the LibDems using public money to promote their brand but who is to say that if presented with the same opportunity the Labour or Conservative party would not do the same?
Another referendum! How much will all this voting cost us?
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: I will look at the costs before a final decision, but my thinking is going along these lines. To be honest I would like to see the back of council-funded party political self-promotion in terms of publications delivered to every household in Watford. Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction. The savings will be worthwhile and can be used better elsewhere. Also, any publishing by the council, either online or paper-based should be as independent of political influence as possible. I would like to see this written into the council constitution to make it difficult for future politicians to change. Perhaps we can find some way of making it subject to a referendum if a change is desired so that the voters know about future local politicians getting up to their tricks again. This time it is the LibDems using public money to promote their brand but who is to say that if presented with the same opportunity the Labour or Conservative party would not do the same?[/p][/quote]Another referendum! How much will all this voting cost us? Nascot
  • Score: 3

10:54pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox you are deluded if you think any incoming mayor will be able to do any of the things you say whilst the Libdems maintain a majority on the council and the one thing that is certain is that they will, that is with 24 cllrs and defending 7 or 8 seats they only have to hold onto Oxhey and Stanbourough to maintain a comfortable absolute majority. That is a fact.
Now you will not win in my opinion, nor will you get any cllrs, but you kknow what I could be wrong ( I very much doubt it), lets say you win and get 2 cllrs what will you be able to do nowt.
On the other hand if labour do well and end up with ten or eleven cllrs, that is within touching distance of a majority in 2015, and enough cllrs to hold the ruling group to account in a real and meaningful way.
If you vote UKIP in the local and Mayor election the outcome will be a Libdem council, that is the political reality in Watford

Vote UKIP get Libdem
The more councillors UKIP gets the better it will be for Watford, but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is.

I intend to work with all parties in the interests of Watford and I will make sure common sense is brought to bear in council matters.

A UKIP Mayor is the best solution for Watford. Feedback on the doorsteps has been excellent.

I am ready for the challenge of bringing the parties together in the interests of Watford. It's what councillors will be elected for. The winners will be the people and the town of Watford.

You will probably know from your own canvassing the effect we are having on Labour voters. That is probably why you are saying vote UKIP, get LibDem.

I think you are mistaken. It is now a case of vote Labour, get LibDem

Labour are splitting our vote in certain wards. Labour is losing support.

Vote UKIP, get UKIP.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox you are deluded if you think any incoming mayor will be able to do any of the things you say whilst the Libdems maintain a majority on the council and the one thing that is certain is that they will, that is with 24 cllrs and defending 7 or 8 seats they only have to hold onto Oxhey and Stanbourough to maintain a comfortable absolute majority. That is a fact. Now you will not win in my opinion, nor will you get any cllrs, but you kknow what I could be wrong ( I very much doubt it), lets say you win and get 2 cllrs what will you be able to do nowt. On the other hand if labour do well and end up with ten or eleven cllrs, that is within touching distance of a majority in 2015, and enough cllrs to hold the ruling group to account in a real and meaningful way. If you vote UKIP in the local and Mayor election the outcome will be a Libdem council, that is the political reality in Watford Vote UKIP get Libdem[/p][/quote]The more councillors UKIP gets the better it will be for Watford, but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is. I intend to work with all parties in the interests of Watford and I will make sure common sense is brought to bear in council matters. A UKIP Mayor is the best solution for Watford. Feedback on the doorsteps has been excellent. I am ready for the challenge of bringing the parties together in the interests of Watford. It's what councillors will be elected for. The winners will be the people and the town of Watford. You will probably know from your own canvassing the effect we are having on Labour voters. That is probably why you are saying vote UKIP, get LibDem. I think you are mistaken. It is now a case of vote Labour, get LibDem Labour are splitting our vote in certain wards. Labour is losing support. Vote UKIP, get UKIP. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

11:02pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Nascot wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
I will look at the costs before a final decision, but my thinking is going along these lines.

To be honest I would like to see the back of council-funded party political self-promotion in terms of publications delivered to every household in Watford.

Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction.

The savings will be worthwhile and can be used better elsewhere.

Also, any publishing by the council, either online or paper-based should be as independent of political influence as possible. I would like to see this written into the council constitution to make it difficult for future politicians to change. Perhaps we can find some way of making it subject to a referendum if a change is desired so that the voters know about future local politicians getting up to their tricks again.

This time it is the LibDems using public money to promote their brand but who is to say that if presented with the same opportunity the Labour or Conservative party would not do the same?
Another referendum! How much will all this voting cost us?
You see a problem where others may see a benefit. I suppose it depends what your viewpoint is.

The title of this article is appropriate. You would like to remove democratic accountability that may stop expensive mistakes being made and will allow the people to believe the council acts in the interests of the town.

It will cost less than the sort of mistakes a LibDem administration makes would cost us. How much has the council spent on defending the land grab for Farm Terrace allotments that may be illegal? It's still rising, isn't it?

What price democracy, Nascot?
[quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: I will look at the costs before a final decision, but my thinking is going along these lines. To be honest I would like to see the back of council-funded party political self-promotion in terms of publications delivered to every household in Watford. Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction. The savings will be worthwhile and can be used better elsewhere. Also, any publishing by the council, either online or paper-based should be as independent of political influence as possible. I would like to see this written into the council constitution to make it difficult for future politicians to change. Perhaps we can find some way of making it subject to a referendum if a change is desired so that the voters know about future local politicians getting up to their tricks again. This time it is the LibDems using public money to promote their brand but who is to say that if presented with the same opportunity the Labour or Conservative party would not do the same?[/p][/quote]Another referendum! How much will all this voting cost us?[/p][/quote]You see a problem where others may see a benefit. I suppose it depends what your viewpoint is. The title of this article is appropriate. You would like to remove democratic accountability that may stop expensive mistakes being made and will allow the people to believe the council acts in the interests of the town. It will cost less than the sort of mistakes a LibDem administration makes would cost us. How much has the council spent on defending the land grab for Farm Terrace allotments that may be illegal? It's still rising, isn't it? What price democracy, Nascot? Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -3

11:41pm Sun 13 Apr 14

Nascot says...

Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction.

Ah, but still at the Council's expense. Hypocrite
Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction. Ah, but still at the Council's expense. Hypocrite Nascot
  • Score: 0

12:00am Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Nascot wrote:
Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction.

Ah, but still at the Council's expense. Hypocrite
What planet are you on Nascot?

I am proposing an idea that will save 99% of not inconsiderable council costs spent on producing such council publicity that is little more than a LibDem publicity brochure.

Such openness, honesty and desire to cut frivolous council spending should be welcomed. Instead, you try to find fault. I ask myself, why would a reasonable person do that?

Readers will have to make up their own minds on whether your posts are reasoned or reasonable.
[quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: Any relevant information can be put on the website at a fraction of the cost and that is probably the best use of council funds in that direction. Ah, but still at the Council's expense. Hypocrite[/p][/quote]What planet are you on Nascot? I am proposing an idea that will save 99% of not inconsiderable council costs spent on producing such council publicity that is little more than a LibDem publicity brochure. Such openness, honesty and desire to cut frivolous council spending should be welcomed. Instead, you try to find fault. I ask myself, why would a reasonable person do that? Readers will have to make up their own minds on whether your posts are reasoned or reasonable. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -6

7:51am Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

@phil cox
, "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is."

what absolute rot!!!

The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts.

Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???
@phil cox , "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is." what absolute rot!!! The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts. Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has??? ancientandageing
  • Score: 5

8:14am Mon 14 Apr 14

Nascot says...

What planet are you on Nascot?

The one that knows not everyone uses the Internet. So they would not be able to access the website.

Paper may be old fashioned, but it is still the best way to reach all
What planet are you on Nascot? The one that knows not everyone uses the Internet. So they would not be able to access the website. Paper may be old fashioned, but it is still the best way to reach all Nascot
  • Score: 3

8:33am Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Nascot wrote:
What planet are you on Nascot?

The one that knows not everyone uses the Internet. So they would not be able to access the website.

Paper may be old fashioned, but it is still the best way to reach all
True, so we could have an opt-in scheme for those that want a paper copy. Still a huge cost saving.

I wonder how many people actually care enough to want a copy at all and how many people would just prefer the council to save the money and spend it on something more useful or use it to reduce taxes.

Publicising the LibDems at council expense is not one of my priorities for the council as a taxpayer. I find it rather obscene.
[quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: What planet are you on Nascot? The one that knows not everyone uses the Internet. So they would not be able to access the website. Paper may be old fashioned, but it is still the best way to reach all[/p][/quote]True, so we could have an opt-in scheme for those that want a paper copy. Still a huge cost saving. I wonder how many people actually care enough to want a copy at all and how many people would just prefer the council to save the money and spend it on something more useful or use it to reduce taxes. Publicising the LibDems at council expense is not one of my priorities for the council as a taxpayer. I find it rather obscene. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -3

8:43am Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
@phil cox
, "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is."

what absolute rot!!!

The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts.

Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???
I have no intention of dictating anything, that's not the way I work.

I have every intention of bringing together the councillors to work in the interests of Watford.

What Watford needs is a Mayor who will act as an independent to do the best for Watford, not in their own narrow party interests.

Your own argument is that unless Labour gets a majority it is not worth having a Labour Mayor.

I can think of better reasons not to have a Labour Mayor and really you are arguing for people not to vote Labour for Mayor as you are unlikely to have a majority after this election.

So, on that I agree with you - Do not vote Labour for Mayor.

Vote UKIP instead. Many Labour voters are doing this already.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil cox , "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is." what absolute rot!!! The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts. Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???[/p][/quote]I have no intention of dictating anything, that's not the way I work. I have every intention of bringing together the councillors to work in the interests of Watford. What Watford needs is a Mayor who will act as an independent to do the best for Watford, not in their own narrow party interests. Your own argument is that unless Labour gets a majority it is not worth having a Labour Mayor. I can think of better reasons not to have a Labour Mayor and really you are arguing for people not to vote Labour for Mayor as you are unlikely to have a majority after this election. So, on that I agree with you - Do not vote Labour for Mayor. Vote UKIP instead. Many Labour voters are doing this already. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

9:22am Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
@phil cox
, "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is."

what absolute rot!!!

The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts.

Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???
I have no intention of dictating anything, that's not the way I work.

I have every intention of bringing together the councillors to work in the interests of Watford.

What Watford needs is a Mayor who will act as an independent to do the best for Watford, not in their own narrow party interests.

Your own argument is that unless Labour gets a majority it is not worth having a Labour Mayor.

I can think of better reasons not to have a Labour Mayor and really you are arguing for people not to vote Labour for Mayor as you are unlikely to have a majority after this election.

So, on that I agree with you - Do not vote Labour for Mayor.

Vote UKIP instead. Many Labour voters are doing this already.
nonsense, you really do have a problem with comprehension!!!

How can saying that if Labour get 11 cllrs in total this year they will be within touching distance of getting a majority next year saying anything of the sort.
Your party at best can be in the position of the greens that is totally irrelevant on the council, Labour have a team of cllrs doing casework and holding the council to account.

You have floated this idea that you can bring harmony in the council, it is utter nonsense to copy our Labour MEP and qoute from the life of Brian "you are not the Messiah your a very naughty Boy", Your [party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist partys in Europe.

Now on the subject of Mayor what actual power will you have, please answer the Question, becouse in context you will NEVER get a majority on the council, whereas Labour may well by the end of the Mayoral term.

And the danger of UKIP is that they will attract second preference protest votes in the Mayor election and that they will attract protest votes in the wards all of which will do one thing only ensure that the Libdems get back in

Vote UKIP get Libdem
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil cox , "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is." what absolute rot!!! The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts. Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???[/p][/quote]I have no intention of dictating anything, that's not the way I work. I have every intention of bringing together the councillors to work in the interests of Watford. What Watford needs is a Mayor who will act as an independent to do the best for Watford, not in their own narrow party interests. Your own argument is that unless Labour gets a majority it is not worth having a Labour Mayor. I can think of better reasons not to have a Labour Mayor and really you are arguing for people not to vote Labour for Mayor as you are unlikely to have a majority after this election. So, on that I agree with you - Do not vote Labour for Mayor. Vote UKIP instead. Many Labour voters are doing this already.[/p][/quote]nonsense, you really do have a problem with comprehension!!! How can saying that if Labour get 11 cllrs in total this year they will be within touching distance of getting a majority next year saying anything of the sort. Your party at best can be in the position of the greens that is totally irrelevant on the council, Labour have a team of cllrs doing casework and holding the council to account. You have floated this idea that you can bring harmony in the council, it is utter nonsense to copy our Labour MEP and qoute from the life of Brian "you are not the Messiah your a very naughty Boy", Your [party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist partys in Europe. Now on the subject of Mayor what actual power will you have, please answer the Question, becouse in context you will NEVER get a majority on the council, whereas Labour may well by the end of the Mayoral term. And the danger of UKIP is that they will attract second preference protest votes in the Mayor election and that they will attract protest votes in the wards all of which will do one thing only ensure that the Libdems get back in Vote UKIP get Libdem ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

9:41am Mon 14 Apr 14

Nascot says...

http://www.theguardi
an.com/politics/2014
/feb/04/ukip-mep-ger
ard-batten-muslims-s
ign-charter-rejectin
g-violence
http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /feb/04/ukip-mep-ger ard-batten-muslims-s ign-charter-rejectin g-violence Nascot
  • Score: 0

11:04am Mon 14 Apr 14

Cuetip says...

E.Coli wrote:
Cuetip wrote:
The problem is that voters have grown used to the way politicians use words to disguise and not to illuminate and in the increasingly diminished poll, people are left so confused that they are surprised that they may have even vote against their own interests.

Truth is rarely seen as an objective as they auction promises simply designed to win on the day. As a result, many regard broken election promises as a severe issue that disaffects people from the entire political process.

This increases apathy and lowering the tribal voter turnout by the parties. Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country.
So you will not be voting then
Ecoli as you of all people know from your close involvement in shoddy local politics that the intestines of parties are being poisoned from the inflated and bigoted egos inside and driving out any one who puts residents.

Find me the local person who is prepared to stand up to the bullying nature of parties and puts residents and social justice first and I’ll vote for that person which is what locals want.
[quote][p][bold]E.Coli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cuetip[/bold] wrote: The problem is that voters have grown used to the way politicians use words to disguise and not to illuminate and in the increasingly diminished poll, people are left so confused that they are surprised that they may have even vote against their own interests. Truth is rarely seen as an objective as they auction promises simply designed to win on the day. As a result, many regard broken election promises as a severe issue that disaffects people from the entire political process. This increases apathy and lowering the tribal voter turnout by the parties. Far too many inexperienced career politicians are simply egocentric and slavishly feather their own personal ambitions as opposed to serving the people of this country.[/p][/quote]So you will not be voting then[/p][/quote]Ecoli as you of all people know from your close involvement in shoddy local politics that the intestines of parties are being poisoned from the inflated and bigoted egos inside and driving out any one who puts residents. Find me the local person who is prepared to stand up to the bullying nature of parties and puts residents and social justice first and I’ll vote for that person which is what locals want. Cuetip
  • Score: 1

11:08am Mon 14 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

@ancientandageing...
...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
@ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it.... LocalBoy1
  • Score: -1

11:16am Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
@phil cox
, "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is."

what absolute rot!!!

The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts.

Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???
I have no intention of dictating anything, that's not the way I work.

I have every intention of bringing together the councillors to work in the interests of Watford.

What Watford needs is a Mayor who will act as an independent to do the best for Watford, not in their own narrow party interests.

Your own argument is that unless Labour gets a majority it is not worth having a Labour Mayor.

I can think of better reasons not to have a Labour Mayor and really you are arguing for people not to vote Labour for Mayor as you are unlikely to have a majority after this election.

So, on that I agree with you - Do not vote Labour for Mayor.

Vote UKIP instead. Many Labour voters are doing this already.
nonsense, you really do have a problem with comprehension!!!

How can saying that if Labour get 11 cllrs in total this year they will be within touching distance of getting a majority next year saying anything of the sort.
Your party at best can be in the position of the greens that is totally irrelevant on the council, Labour have a team of cllrs doing casework and holding the council to account.

You have floated this idea that you can bring harmony in the council, it is utter nonsense to copy our Labour MEP and qoute from the life of Brian "you are not the Messiah your a very naughty Boy", Your
Our success is really worrying you isn't it?

You are probably talking to the same people we are on the doorsteps, and I hope they are telling you the same thing they are telling us.

Smear all you like, people are not listening any more. They are finding out for themselves the truth about UKIP and they are liking what they hear.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil cox , "but as Mayor it doesn't matter what the makeup of the council is." what absolute rot!!! The post of Mayor is NOT an elected dictator,it IS a majority in the council that counts. Just exactly what powers do you think the Mayor has???[/p][/quote]I have no intention of dictating anything, that's not the way I work. I have every intention of bringing together the councillors to work in the interests of Watford. What Watford needs is a Mayor who will act as an independent to do the best for Watford, not in their own narrow party interests. Your own argument is that unless Labour gets a majority it is not worth having a Labour Mayor. I can think of better reasons not to have a Labour Mayor and really you are arguing for people not to vote Labour for Mayor as you are unlikely to have a majority after this election. So, on that I agree with you - Do not vote Labour for Mayor. Vote UKIP instead. Many Labour voters are doing this already.[/p][/quote]nonsense, you really do have a problem with comprehension!!! How can saying that if Labour get 11 cllrs in total this year they will be within touching distance of getting a majority next year saying anything of the sort. Your party at best can be in the position of the greens that is totally irrelevant on the council, Labour have a team of cllrs doing casework and holding the council to account. You have floated this idea that you can bring harmony in the council, it is utter nonsense to copy our Labour MEP and qoute from the life of Brian "you are not the Messiah your a very naughty Boy", Your [party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist partys in Europe. Now on the subject of Mayor what actual power will you have, please answer the Question, becouse in context you will NEVER get a majority on the council, whereas Labour may well by the end of the Mayoral term. And the danger of UKIP is that they will attract second preference protest votes in the Mayor election and that they will attract protest votes in the wards all of which will do one thing only ensure that the Libdems get back in Vote UKIP get Libdem[/p][/quote]Our success is really worrying you isn't it? You are probably talking to the same people we are on the doorsteps, and I hope they are telling you the same thing they are telling us. Smear all you like, people are not listening any more. They are finding out for themselves the truth about UKIP and they are liking what they hear. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

11:18am Mon 14 Apr 14

Cuetip says...

Popeonarope wrote:
I would like to see more accountability from those we elect with real transparency on spending. This also means declaring affiliations, personal relationships and business interests.
The Health Campus is an example of where this would be useful to see why Dotty is trying to sell it as a hospital amenity and not just more housing. Credibility is sadly lacking in most politicians at all levels these days.
Less spin, more common sense. Maintain the roads, dredge the rivers, fix the street lighting etc. A new pond and bridge..?

LSC is right; we need officials who are removed from any main party or are at least partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of the town.
Check the attendance record of Cllrs who in their election leaflets promised to assiduously work for their residents as shown by their many photo ops.

Once safely elected by some party machine, they quitely disappear .
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: I would like to see more accountability from those we elect with real transparency on spending. This also means declaring affiliations, personal relationships and business interests. The Health Campus is an example of where this would be useful to see why Dotty is trying to sell it as a hospital amenity and not just more housing. Credibility is sadly lacking in most politicians at all levels these days. Less spin, more common sense. Maintain the roads, dredge the rivers, fix the street lighting etc. A new pond and bridge..? LSC is right; we need officials who are removed from any main party or are at least partisan enough to act independently in the best interests of the town.[/p][/quote]Check the attendance record of Cllrs who in their election leaflets promised to assiduously work for their residents as shown by their many photo ops. Once safely elected by some party machine, they quitely disappear . Cuetip
  • Score: 3

11:36am Mon 14 Apr 14

Sara says...

Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis.

It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.
Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis. It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere. Sara
  • Score: 2

11:50am Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Sara wrote:
Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis.

It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.
Some councillors are clearly not attending meetings. That is a big part of their job, an important part one might have thought. Standing up for their constituents.

Cuetip is right. Some councillors are not worth having if they don't do anything. All they are doing is making up the numbers and keeping someone who cares from representing their constituents.

Shoddy.

Whilst what you say may be true for some of the councillors some of the time, please do not try to fool all of the people all of the time. You know this goes on yet you try to excuse it. You are therefore part of the problem even if it is just by trying to cover it up.
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis. It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.[/p][/quote]Some councillors are clearly not attending meetings. That is a big part of their job, an important part one might have thought. Standing up for their constituents. Cuetip is right. Some councillors are not worth having if they don't do anything. All they are doing is making up the numbers and keeping someone who cares from representing their constituents. Shoddy. Whilst what you say may be true for some of the councillors some of the time, please do not try to fool all of the people all of the time. You know this goes on yet you try to excuse it. You are therefore part of the problem even if it is just by trying to cover it up. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -4

11:55am Mon 14 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Sara wrote:
Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis.

It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.
WOW, so much information. We really needed know all this... It's like a social website. Twitter? Facebook?
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis. It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.[/p][/quote]WOW, so much information. We really needed know all this... It's like a social website. Twitter? Facebook? LocalBoy1
  • Score: -1

12:19pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Sara says...

Judging by some of the moments on here, I think that's exactly what you (collectively) need. It can be difficult to understand the full role of a local councillor when you are not one. Attending formal meetings is a very small part.
Judging by some of the moments on here, I think that's exactly what you (collectively) need. It can be difficult to understand the full role of a local councillor when you are not one. Attending formal meetings is a very small part. Sara
  • Score: 1

12:41pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Sara says...

I used to think that @Phil Cox was pretending not to understand for political capital, now I think he just doesn't understand.

Formal meetings may be simply procedural.they may be ones where all Councillors of all parties and none agree on what is to be done, there jus t needs to be a formal meeting to agree it.

Informal meetings or formal meetings of other agencies are often ones where local issues can be influenced or decided. These can involve issues close to local residents' hearts, such as school expansion, a large planning application, a wish by a local business to change operating hours, visiting a residents association to address their concerns, attending three local coffee mornings or similar to meet residents, talking to the bus company about time tabling issues, separately meting two local headteacher to discuss school facilities, attending two meetings with local highways officers, meeting residents to discuss the possible adoption of their road, talking to the police about what can be done regarding antisocial behaviour emanating from a couple of houses, visiting sheltered housing to discuss council changes to activities for senior citizens, and not least visiting individual residents who have a distressing private issue. There are just some of the things that I have done outside formal meetings in the last month.

Residents on the whole aren't interested in whether you attended a council sub committee. They want to know will their local councillor be there batting and battling for them on the issues that affect their day to day lives.
I used to think that @Phil Cox was pretending not to understand for political capital, now I think he just doesn't understand. Formal meetings may be simply procedural.they may be ones where all Councillors of all parties and none agree on what is to be done, there jus t needs to be a formal meeting to agree it. Informal meetings or formal meetings of other agencies are often ones where local issues can be influenced or decided. These can involve issues close to local residents' hearts, such as school expansion, a large planning application, a wish by a local business to change operating hours, visiting a residents association to address their concerns, attending three local coffee mornings or similar to meet residents, talking to the bus company about time tabling issues, separately meting two local headteacher to discuss school facilities, attending two meetings with local highways officers, meeting residents to discuss the possible adoption of their road, talking to the police about what can be done regarding antisocial behaviour emanating from a couple of houses, visiting sheltered housing to discuss council changes to activities for senior citizens, and not least visiting individual residents who have a distressing private issue. There are just some of the things that I have done outside formal meetings in the last month. Residents on the whole aren't interested in whether you attended a council sub committee. They want to know will their local councillor be there batting and battling for them on the issues that affect their day to day lives. Sara
  • Score: 4

12:55pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Cuetip says...

Sara wrote:
Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis.

It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.
It really is unacceptable for someone in your position, does not have the strenght of character to at least acknowledge that there some cllrs even in your own party don't do very much despite all the posed electioneering photo ops.

It's no wonder that politicians - and other power groups believe that they are untouchable because they can depend on the party machinery to protect them eg Cyril Smith and people like Hitler came to power for you can't even deal with minor questions. Look at the fight that Doreen Lawrence and others have had to go through by your mistaken slavish belief that to cover up the indefensible is always accpetable.

Phil Cox 'Some councillors are clearly not attending meetings. That is a big part of their job, an important part one might have thought. Standing up for their constituents'.
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis. It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.[/p][/quote]It really is unacceptable for someone in your position, does not have the strenght of character to at least acknowledge that there some cllrs even in your own party don't do very much despite all the posed electioneering photo ops. It's no wonder that politicians - and other power groups believe that they are untouchable because they can depend on the party machinery to protect them eg Cyril Smith and people like Hitler came to power for you can't even deal with minor questions. Look at the fight that Doreen Lawrence and others have had to go through by your mistaken slavish belief that to cover up the indefensible is always accpetable. Phil Cox 'Some councillors are clearly not attending meetings. That is a big part of their job, an important part one might have thought. Standing up for their constituents'. Cuetip
  • Score: 1

1:12pm Mon 14 Apr 14

D_Penn says...

@Sara

You said: 'Formal meetings may be simply procedural.they may be ones where all Councillors of all parties and none agree on what is to be done, there just needs to be a formal meeting to agree it.'

Therein lies part of the problem. The Lib Dems have such a strong dominance of Council that they have no need to take account of dissenting voices from other parties. Decisions on what is to happen is taken by Lib Dems outside of formal meetings and then majority voting in the formal process ensures it happens.

From what you are saying, Council might as well abandon formal meetings and just ask the Lib Dem party what's going to happen. When nobody listens to counter arguments and then decides to vote based on all the debated evidence it is terrible for local democracy.

Yet that is clearly what you have confirmed is happening.

The formal Council meeting on the future of Farm Terrace allotments was a case in point. I was in the public section watching as several good arguments were presented against using the allotments as part of the health campus. Dorothy argued the Lib Dems view, but was weak. Virtually all of the rest of the Libdems councillors offered nothing, either for or against. If anything they looked somewhat bored, many doodling, not really listening and just waiting for the call to hit their voting button.

Then the vote was called and it was all over in a second - goodbye allotments. Despite the good arguments against and a public section bursting with those supporting the allotments it was a done deal.

So Sara, you may talk about 'batting and battling for residents on the issues that affect their day to day lives.' but I saw precious little of it that day.
@Sara You said: 'Formal meetings may be simply procedural.they may be ones where all Councillors of all parties and none agree on what is to be done, there just needs to be a formal meeting to agree it.' Therein lies part of the problem. The Lib Dems have such a strong dominance of Council that they have no need to take account of dissenting voices from other parties. Decisions on what is to happen is taken by Lib Dems outside of formal meetings and then majority voting in the formal process ensures it happens. From what you are saying, Council might as well abandon formal meetings and just ask the Lib Dem party what's going to happen. When nobody listens to counter arguments and then decides to vote based on all the debated evidence it is terrible for local democracy. Yet that is clearly what you have confirmed is happening. The formal Council meeting on the future of Farm Terrace allotments was a case in point. I was in the public section watching as several good arguments were presented against using the allotments as part of the health campus. Dorothy argued the Lib Dems view, but was weak. Virtually all of the rest of the Libdems councillors offered nothing, either for or against. If anything they looked somewhat bored, many doodling, not really listening and just waiting for the call to hit their voting button. Then the vote was called and it was all over in a second - goodbye allotments. Despite the good arguments against and a public section bursting with those supporting the allotments it was a done deal. So Sara, you may talk about 'batting and battling for residents on the issues that affect their day to day lives.' but I saw precious little of it that day. D_Penn
  • Score: -2

1:19pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Sara says...

I have never had anything to do with the issues that you quote above, nor do I know anyone who has. In my experience 99% of people serving on local councils are decent, honest people. In any group of people there are rotten aples and local government is no exception.

I don't defend the bad uns, bit I don't think it's reasonable to attack those who are working effectively for residents.
I have never had anything to do with the issues that you quote above, nor do I know anyone who has. In my experience 99% of people serving on local councils are decent, honest people. In any group of people there are rotten aples and local government is no exception. I don't defend the bad uns, bit I don't think it's reasonable to attack those who are working effectively for residents. Sara
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Sara says...

@DPenn I said all parties and none. That means all parties, not just the Lib Dems. In any case I am not a Watford councillor.

Often things are decided quickly at Full Council because they have been debated several times beforehand at other meetings. I spend a lot of time advising residents and businesses of the best way to influence councils and other decision making bodies, because waiting until the final meeting is often too late. A decision is rarely black and white and it usually does not stand alone, so there will be other decisions intertwined.

You have also missed the main point of my last few posts - most work on behalf of residents is done outside council chamber meetings.
@DPenn I said all parties and none. That means all parties, not just the Lib Dems. In any case I am not a Watford councillor. Often things are decided quickly at Full Council because they have been debated several times beforehand at other meetings. I spend a lot of time advising residents and businesses of the best way to influence councils and other decision making bodies, because waiting until the final meeting is often too late. A decision is rarely black and white and it usually does not stand alone, so there will be other decisions intertwined. You have also missed the main point of my last few posts - most work on behalf of residents is done outside council chamber meetings. Sara
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Mon 14 Apr 14

LSC says...

The attendance thing brings me back to an earlier point I made. Who cares if Cllrs attend a debate if they are going to vote on Party lines anyway?
It always makes me laugh when parliament has a 'free vote' and everyone gets all excited about it. Every vote should be a free vote, with the representative of a constituency putting forward the views and best interests of the people in it.
But if they do stand up for the people, they are condemned to the back benches and might well be replaced at the next election by someone more willing to do what they are told by the party.
That is basically dictatorship, not democracy. What the majority party wants, it gets. 99 times out of 100 the debates that preclude a vote are a complete waste of time, because the MPs are told how to vote anyway, and if they buck the system they can say goodbye to that fact finding trip to Barbados next year.

It's the same at local level too often sadly. Phil Cox appears to say he is aware of this and intends to change it. Geography says I can't vote for him, but I probably would give him a go.
The attendance thing brings me back to an earlier point I made. Who cares if Cllrs attend a debate if they are going to vote on Party lines anyway? It always makes me laugh when parliament has a 'free vote' and everyone gets all excited about it. Every vote should be a free vote, with the representative of a constituency putting forward the views and best interests of the people in it. But if they do stand up for the people, they are condemned to the back benches and might well be replaced at the next election by someone more willing to do what they are told by the party. That is basically dictatorship, not democracy. What the majority party wants, it gets. 99 times out of 100 the debates that preclude a vote are a complete waste of time, because the MPs are told how to vote anyway, and if they buck the system they can say goodbye to that fact finding trip to Barbados next year. It's the same at local level too often sadly. Phil Cox appears to say he is aware of this and intends to change it. Geography says I can't vote for him, but I probably would give him a go. LSC
  • Score: 1

1:50pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Harry's Bar says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?"

My answer is this.

It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well.

It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected.

Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off.

Maria Miller and her greed.

Nick Clegg and his blatant lies.

Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times.

The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government.

These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy.

It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy.

Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy.

UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP.

There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.
You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?" My answer is this. It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well. It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected. Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off. Maria Miller and her greed. Nick Clegg and his blatant lies. Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times. The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government. These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy. It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy. Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy. UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP. There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.[/p][/quote]You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that. Harry's Bar
  • Score: 1

2:08pm Mon 14 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

@Harry's Bar

"You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that". Oh, come on! Is that the sum total of your ability to engage in political debate?
@Harry's Bar "You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that". Oh, come on! Is that the sum total of your ability to engage in political debate? LocalBoy1
  • Score: -1

2:17pm Mon 14 Apr 14

D_Penn says...

Sara wrote:
@DPenn I said all parties and none. That means all parties, not just the Lib Dems. In any case I am not a Watford councillor. Often things are decided quickly at Full Council because they have been debated several times beforehand at other meetings. I spend a lot of time advising residents and businesses of the best way to influence councils and other decision making bodies, because waiting until the final meeting is often too late. A decision is rarely black and white and it usually does not stand alone, so there will be other decisions intertwined. You have also missed the main point of my last few posts - most work on behalf of residents is done outside council chamber meetings.
I understood all that.

The article that generated these comments was on the question of local democracy. The point I was trying to make is that at local level, party politics should not dominate, but it does.

The Council chamber and formal meetings is the one place where all the elected representatives can gather and be monitored by the public. For proof that democracy is in action, this is where all relevant arguments should be brought together and debated openly. Residents can then hear for themselves who is truly fighting their corner and who is against.

Instead, most of the discussions are had beforehand and the dominant party then all agree to vote as a block, pressing a little button so nobody can see who voted which way. That makes the arguments put forward at the formal meeting a sham, no more than a performance where the minority parties get to have a say which will then be ignored no matter how effective. So often it seems that self-promotion, political philosophy and slavish adherence to guidelines that is the true driving factor behind decisions rather than the use of basic common sense and a true urge to save taxpayers money.

The reason so many people have given up voting is because they know it changes nothing. I want to see a Council that listens to people, acts on their views, openly debates the issues and finally visibly votes on the balance of arguments presented by assenters and dissenters across the board rather than on party lines.

UKIP is trying to break this stranglehold. The party gives its councillors the freedom to vote on what their electorate want, even if it is against policy. Every UKIP councillor is like an independent who can vote according to conscience and what the people their ward are saying. To me, that is the honest way to give true democratic representation to the people.
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: @DPenn I said all parties and none. That means all parties, not just the Lib Dems. In any case I am not a Watford councillor. Often things are decided quickly at Full Council because they have been debated several times beforehand at other meetings. I spend a lot of time advising residents and businesses of the best way to influence councils and other decision making bodies, because waiting until the final meeting is often too late. A decision is rarely black and white and it usually does not stand alone, so there will be other decisions intertwined. You have also missed the main point of my last few posts - most work on behalf of residents is done outside council chamber meetings.[/p][/quote]I understood all that. The article that generated these comments was on the question of local democracy. The point I was trying to make is that at local level, party politics should not dominate, but it does. The Council chamber and formal meetings is the one place where all the elected representatives can gather and be monitored by the public. For proof that democracy is in action, this is where all relevant arguments should be brought together and debated openly. Residents can then hear for themselves who is truly fighting their corner and who is against. Instead, most of the discussions are had beforehand and the dominant party then all agree to vote as a block, pressing a little button so nobody can see who voted which way. That makes the arguments put forward at the formal meeting a sham, no more than a performance where the minority parties get to have a say which will then be ignored no matter how effective. So often it seems that self-promotion, political philosophy and slavish adherence to guidelines that is the true driving factor behind decisions rather than the use of basic common sense and a true urge to save taxpayers money. The reason so many people have given up voting is because they know it changes nothing. I want to see a Council that listens to people, acts on their views, openly debates the issues and finally visibly votes on the balance of arguments presented by assenters and dissenters across the board rather than on party lines. UKIP is trying to break this stranglehold. The party gives its councillors the freedom to vote on what their electorate want, even if it is against policy. Every UKIP councillor is like an independent who can vote according to conscience and what the people their ward are saying. To me, that is the honest way to give true democratic representation to the people. D_Penn
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing...

...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
The thing is Local boy that
One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean.
UKIP take a climate change denial stance
The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV
UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage
Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently.
THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick.

So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....[/p][/quote]The thing is Local boy that One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean. UKIP take a climate change denial stance The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently. THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick. So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party??? ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Sara wrote:
Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis.

It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.
Strange that UKIPers put such emphases on attending meetings, still they like the EU gravy train and Phil Cox is hoping to jump on board a different one.
[quote][p][bold]Sara[/bold] wrote: Attendance at meetings is not the best judge of what Councillors are doing for their residents. If I have two things on the same night, I make a judgement as to where I can get the most for residents. It may be attending a formal committee meeting. It may be attending a school governors meeting, a residents' association meeting or simply visiting an individual resident or family who has a crisis. It also means acting as a team with colleagues. Those of us representing the same area will ensure that the case is put by another councillor if one of us has to be elsewhere.[/p][/quote]Strange that UKIPers put such emphases on attending meetings, still they like the EU gravy train and Phil Cox is hoping to jump on board a different one. ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

2:33pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Harry's Bar wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?"

My answer is this.

It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well.

It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected.

Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off.

Maria Miller and her greed.

Nick Clegg and his blatant lies.

Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times.

The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government.

These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy.

It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy.

Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy.

UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP.

There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.
You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that.
he is not the messiah he is a very naughty boy
[quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?" My answer is this. It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well. It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected. Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off. Maria Miller and her greed. Nick Clegg and his blatant lies. Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times. The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government. These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy. It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy. Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy. UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP. There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.[/p][/quote]You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that.[/p][/quote]he is not the messiah he is a very naughty boy ancientandageing
  • Score: 2

2:34pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Nascot wrote:
http://www.theguardi

an.com/politics/2014

/feb/04/ukip-mep-ger

ard-batten-muslims-s

ign-charter-rejectin

g-violence
thanks
[quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /feb/04/ukip-mep-ger ard-batten-muslims-s ign-charter-rejectin g-violence[/p][/quote]thanks ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

3:10pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Harry's Bar wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?"

My answer is this.

It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well.

It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected.

Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off.

Maria Miller and her greed.

Nick Clegg and his blatant lies.

Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times.

The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government.

These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy.

It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy.

Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy.

UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP.

There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.
You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that.
The end of world of the cosy three-party cartel that dominates British politics is nigh.

Beware the ides of May (give or take a week)!

Vote UKIP
[quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike's question in the article was about "What will it take to get people interested in democracy?" My answer is this. It will take honest politicians, people of intelligence, vision, character and integrity, to show how a politicians job could be done well. It will also take the removal of all those self-serving politicians who believe it doesn't matter what you say or do so long as it looks good and that if you repeat a lie often enough then enough people will believe it for you to be re-elected. Dishonest politicians, those that fill their boots at the taxpayers expense on some gravy train or other, are the ones that really put people off. Maria Miller and her greed. Nick Clegg and his blatant lies. Labour "rubbing our noses in diversity" by instigating the largest immigration rush into the UK in modern times. The EU making rules and laws for the UK that cannot be changed by our own government. These are the things that destroy a belief in democracy. It is time for honest men and women to stand up for what they believe in and sweep the dishonest and useless politicians from power. We must also leave the EU to regain our democracy. Then, and only then, will we regain our democracy and our respect for democracy. UKIP is a party that is already doing this. People who have given up on voting are now voting again - for UKIP. Good people from the other parties are leaving and joining UKIP. There's a long way to go but at least we have made a good start. Well done UKIP.[/p][/quote]You should be in Hyde Park reading quotes from the Bible and telling us the end of the world is nigh. You'd be good at that.[/p][/quote]The end of world of the cosy three-party cartel that dominates British politics is nigh. Beware the ides of May (give or take a week)! Vote UKIP Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Mon 14 Apr 14

not a regular says...

76 comments and counting, most of them highlighting exactly why I've lost faith in democracy (rather than being not interested in democracy).

The issue for most I'd imagine is that no matter how few promises are kept during a term, there is no rebuttal or consequence. Ensure manifestos are quantifiable with timescales.

You want fairness in politics and the voters to return? Introduce a better mechanism whereby if 50% of the electorate (that actually voted, rather than total electorate) sign a petition to have their MP or councillor's seat put up for election again every year, or maybe even worse.

There is no deterrent. You can get into a decision making position and be safe for long enough that doing a bad job will still provide you with a decent salary and enough brown envelopes and expense claims to make any bad press worthwhile. You think Maria Miller cares?
76 comments and counting, most of them highlighting exactly why I've lost faith in democracy (rather than being not interested in democracy). The issue for most I'd imagine is that no matter how few promises are kept during a term, there is no rebuttal or consequence. Ensure manifestos are quantifiable with timescales. You want fairness in politics and the voters to return? Introduce a better mechanism whereby if 50% of the electorate (that actually voted, rather than total electorate) sign a petition to have their MP or councillor's seat put up for election again every year, or maybe even worse. There is no deterrent. You can get into a decision making position and be safe for long enough that doing a bad job will still provide you with a decent salary and enough brown envelopes and expense claims to make any bad press worthwhile. You think Maria Miller cares? not a regular
  • Score: 1

5:04pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
@phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

5:26pm Mon 14 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
Luvly Jubbly.... Really got you on the run now!!...):):):): Vote UKIP you know it makes sense!
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]Luvly Jubbly.... Really got you on the run now!!...):):):): Vote UKIP you know it makes sense! LocalBoy1
  • Score: -1

5:41pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
You don't highlight policy though, do you?

You pick and choose snippets of anything you can find or make up and portray them as UKIP policy. It is rather dishonest of you and morally wrong.

It says more about you than it does about UKIP.

You are losing support to UKIP. Do you think that lying to people is going to improve things for Labour?
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]You don't highlight policy though, do you? You pick and choose snippets of anything you can find or make up and portray them as UKIP policy. It is rather dishonest of you and morally wrong. It says more about you than it does about UKIP. You are losing support to UKIP. Do you think that lying to people is going to improve things for Labour? Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -1

5:57pm Mon 14 Apr 14

Popeonarope says...

ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move.
Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will.
It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups.
I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move. Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will. It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups. I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests. Popeonarope
  • Score: 2

7:06pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
You don't highlight policy though, do you?

You pick and choose snippets of anything you can find or make up and portray them as UKIP policy. It is rather dishonest of you and morally wrong.

It says more about you than it does about UKIP.

You are losing support to UKIP. Do you think that lying to people is going to improve things for Labour?
Again you try and turn the Table in line with UKIP media manipulation, the problem is you will not state your policy you will not provide your promised Manifesto you, and you don't even understand your own partys policys, so lets get started how about this local referendum just exactly how will that work, and how will the existing petition rights be affected???
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]You don't highlight policy though, do you? You pick and choose snippets of anything you can find or make up and portray them as UKIP policy. It is rather dishonest of you and morally wrong. It says more about you than it does about UKIP. You are losing support to UKIP. Do you think that lying to people is going to improve things for Labour?[/p][/quote]Again you try and turn the Table in line with UKIP media manipulation, the problem is you will not state your policy you will not provide your promised Manifesto you, and you don't even understand your own partys policys, so lets get started how about this local referendum just exactly how will that work, and how will the existing petition rights be affected??? ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

7:29pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing...


...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
The thing is Local boy that
One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean.
UKIP take a climate change denial stance
The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV
UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage
Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently.
THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick.

So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???
you have sort of ducked the issue here
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....[/p][/quote]The thing is Local boy that One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean. UKIP take a climate change denial stance The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently. THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick. So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???[/p][/quote]you have sort of ducked the issue here ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

8:26pm Mon 14 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

ancientandageing wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing...



...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
The thing is Local boy that
One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean.
UKIP take a climate change denial stance
The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV
UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage
Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently.
THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick.

So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???
you have sort of ducked the issue here
No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....[/p][/quote]The thing is Local boy that One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean. UKIP take a climate change denial stance The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently. THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick. So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???[/p][/quote]you have sort of ducked the issue here[/p][/quote]No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry. LocalBoy1
  • Score: 0

9:12pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

LocalBoy1 wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing...




...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
The thing is Local boy that
One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean.
UKIP take a climate change denial stance
The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV
UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage
Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently.
THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick.

So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???
you have sort of ducked the issue here
No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.
there you go again have you been taking lessons of David Penn and Phil Cox in avoiding questions, it certainly looks like it to me!
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....[/p][/quote]The thing is Local boy that One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean. UKIP take a climate change denial stance The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently. THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick. So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???[/p][/quote]you have sort of ducked the issue here[/p][/quote]No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.[/p][/quote]there you go again have you been taking lessons of David Penn and Phil Cox in avoiding questions, it certainly looks like it to me! ancientandageing
  • Score: 3

9:30pm Mon 14 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing...





...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
The thing is Local boy that
One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean.
UKIP take a climate change denial stance
The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV
UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage
Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently.
THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick.

So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???
you have sort of ducked the issue here
No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.
there you go again have you been taking lessons of David Penn and Phil Cox in avoiding questions, it certainly looks like it to me!
NO, this is completely self taught, it's how to avoid antagonistic trolls like you!
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....[/p][/quote]The thing is Local boy that One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean. UKIP take a climate change denial stance The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently. THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick. So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???[/p][/quote]you have sort of ducked the issue here[/p][/quote]No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.[/p][/quote]there you go again have you been taking lessons of David Penn and Phil Cox in avoiding questions, it certainly looks like it to me![/p][/quote]NO, this is completely self taught, it's how to avoid antagonistic trolls like you! LocalBoy1
  • Score: 0

11:46pm Mon 14 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

LocalBoy1 wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing...






...

Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....
The thing is Local boy that
One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean.
UKIP take a climate change denial stance
The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV
UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage
Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently.
THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick.

So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???
you have sort of ducked the issue here
No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.
there you go again have you been taking lessons of David Penn and Phil Cox in avoiding questions, it certainly looks like it to me!
NO, this is completely self taught, it's how to avoid antagonistic trolls like you!
I am honoured a full blown troll now as opposed to a Psch patient or speakers corner preacher
You kind have lost the plot here I think
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing... ... Do you know?. I didn't think it was possible for another human being to spit out such ill informed bile on here. But you have just won a gold medal. God what state must your mind be in?....... "Your party seems to be inherently racist homophobic and sexist with its racist dog whistles appealing to the "white working class" its stance on gay marriage, its sexist comments from this regions MEP, its Muslim register proposals by another MEP, its climate change denial and its alliance with Racist parties in Europe". Your user name suggests maturity. I can't see it....[/p][/quote]The thing is Local boy that One of the UKIP MEP's has proposed that Muslims should have to sign a special register stating that they are opposed to certain interpretations of the Korean. UKIP take a climate change denial stance The leader of UKIP has sought to apeal to "white working class" on TV UKIP is oppssed to Gay marrage Stuart Agnew has come up with comments opposing sex equalty, anf voted against more sex equality in the Euro parlimant recently. THat it is aligned to a racist group that has among it admirers of the mass murderer Bravick. So please could you explain to me if Phil cox and David Penn say vote UKIP get UKIP I should not judge them on their party???[/p][/quote]you have sort of ducked the issue here[/p][/quote]No I haven't. I am well aware of the issues you have!. But I am not a psychotherapist, so I really can't help you. Sorry.[/p][/quote]there you go again have you been taking lessons of David Penn and Phil Cox in avoiding questions, it certainly looks like it to me![/p][/quote]NO, this is completely self taught, it's how to avoid antagonistic trolls like you![/p][/quote]I am honoured a full blown troll now as opposed to a Psch patient or speakers corner preacher You kind have lost the plot here I think ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

7:44am Tue 15 Apr 14

Nascot says...

Nigel Farage 'facing expenses complaint' over UKIP office costs
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-politics-27
030660
Nigel Farage 'facing expenses complaint' over UKIP office costs http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-politics-27 030660 Nascot
  • Score: 2

8:59am Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Nascot wrote:
Nigel Farage 'facing expenses complaint' over UKIP office costs
http://www.bbc.co.uk

/news/uk-politics-27

030660
whilst in general I have concerns about UKIP MEP's riding the gravy train and not doing the job they undertake, I take these allegations which are clearly timed to cause max embarrassment with more skepticism than normal, that said Farrage, cox and Penn are big (well they think they are) enough and ugly (well there policies are) enough to fight their own corner.
[quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: Nigel Farage 'facing expenses complaint' over UKIP office costs http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-politics-27 030660[/p][/quote]whilst in general I have concerns about UKIP MEP's riding the gravy train and not doing the job they undertake, I take these allegations which are clearly timed to cause max embarrassment with more skepticism than normal, that said Farrage, cox and Penn are big (well they think they are) enough and ugly (well there policies are) enough to fight their own corner. ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

9:46am Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Popeonarope wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move.
Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will.
It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups.
I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/world-europe-1
4315108
The link shows that UKIP are in the same group as extremist supporters of Bravik, as I have said. They have chosen to remain in this group and will be tainted by it as long as that is the case.

As to your assertion that "there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests" its an interesting one, and somewhat of a dangerous stance if by "you" you mean "your race".
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move. Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will. It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups. I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.[/p][/quote]http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/world-europe-1 4315108 The link shows that UKIP are in the same group as extremist supporters of Bravik, as I have said. They have chosen to remain in this group and will be tainted by it as long as that is the case. As to your assertion that "there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests" its an interesting one, and somewhat of a dangerous stance if by "you" you mean "your race". ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

10:44am Tue 15 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Desperate posts by desperate parties trying to smear UKIP.

They really are getting worried.

Vote UKIP and show them that their smears are not working.
Desperate posts by desperate parties trying to smear UKIP. They really are getting worried. Vote UKIP and show them that their smears are not working. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -1

11:00am Tue 15 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics.

It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians.

For instance,

Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages.

The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue

Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it

The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry

The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen
ts?

The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town.

The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter.

I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us.

I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean.

Vote UKIP
Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics. It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians. For instance, Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages. The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen ts? The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town. The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter. I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us. I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean. Vote UKIP Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -1

11:09am Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Nascot wrote:
Nigel Farage 'facing expenses complaint' over UKIP office costs
http://www.bbc.co.uk


/news/uk-politics-27


030660
whilst in general I have concerns about UKIP MEP's riding the gravy train and not doing the job they undertake, I take these allegations which are clearly timed to cause max embarrassment with more skepticism than normal, that said Farrage, cox and Penn are big (well they think they are) enough and ugly (well there policies are) enough to fight their own corner.
hardly a desperate smear!!!
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nascot[/bold] wrote: Nigel Farage 'facing expenses complaint' over UKIP office costs http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-politics-27 030660[/p][/quote]whilst in general I have concerns about UKIP MEP's riding the gravy train and not doing the job they undertake, I take these allegations which are clearly timed to cause max embarrassment with more skepticism than normal, that said Farrage, cox and Penn are big (well they think they are) enough and ugly (well there policies are) enough to fight their own corner.[/p][/quote]hardly a desperate smear!!! ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

11:13am Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics.

It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians.

For instance,

Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages.

The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue

Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it

The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry

The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen

ts?

The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town.

The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter.

I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us.

I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean.

Vote UKIP
So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics. It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians. For instance, Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages. The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen ts? The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town. The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter. I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us. I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean. Vote UKIP[/p][/quote]So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way??? ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

11:43am Tue 15 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

@ancientandageing

So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???
@ancientandageing So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter??? LocalBoy1
  • Score: 1

11:51am Tue 15 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics.

It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians.

For instance,

Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages.

The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue

Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it

The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry

The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen


ts?

The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town.

The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter.

I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us.

I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean.

Vote UKIP
So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???
ancientandageing

I would like you to answer a very simple question.

Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics. It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians. For instance, Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages. The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen ts? The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town. The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter. I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us. I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean. Vote UKIP[/p][/quote]So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???[/p][/quote]ancientandageing I would like you to answer a very simple question. Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot? Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

11:53am Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing

So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???
does it really Golly
still Local boy just wondering what is your connection to UKIP?
Don't be shy please be open and honest here. Kindred spirit of Farrage is what you appear to be to me. Yes the ancient one percieves that you are a UKIP activist of some sort, he could be wrong thou so won't accuse you of being a cllr, or maybe that is because UKIP have no local cllrs. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with supporters or candidates posting anon, it is after all a tactic in keeping with the published techniques in UKIP Daily
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???[/p][/quote]does it really Golly still Local boy just wondering what is your connection to UKIP? Don't be shy please be open and honest here. Kindred spirit of Farrage is what you appear to be to me. Yes the ancient one percieves that you are a UKIP activist of some sort, he could be wrong thou so won't accuse you of being a cllr, or maybe that is because UKIP have no local cllrs. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with supporters or candidates posting anon, it is after all a tactic in keeping with the published techniques in UKIP Daily ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

12:04pm Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics.

It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians.

For instance,

Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages.

The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue

Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it

The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry

The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen



ts?

The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town.

The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter.

I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us.

I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean.

Vote UKIP
So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???
ancientandageing

I would like you to answer a very simple question.

Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?
Yawn
and I Should answer this question because you candidly answer questions, should I, So I will answer I think I am ancientandageing therefore I am ancientandageing. Now who exactly is DKYN well you tell me openly and candidly who he/she is and I will consider you request.
I would also say that you are in danger of becoming obsessive about this DKYN and might want to get some help from Localboy
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics. It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians. For instance, Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages. The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen ts? The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town. The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter. I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us. I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean. Vote UKIP[/p][/quote]So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???[/p][/quote]ancientandageing I would like you to answer a very simple question. Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?[/p][/quote]Yawn and I Should answer this question because you candidly answer questions, should I, So I will answer I think I am ancientandageing therefore I am ancientandageing. Now who exactly is DKYN well you tell me openly and candidly who he/she is and I will consider you request. I would also say that you are in danger of becoming obsessive about this DKYN and might want to get some help from Localboy ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

12:16pm Tue 15 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing

So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???
does it really Golly
still Local boy just wondering what is your connection to UKIP?
Don't be shy please be open and honest here. Kindred spirit of Farrage is what you appear to be to me. Yes the ancient one percieves that you are a UKIP activist of some sort, he could be wrong thou so won't accuse you of being a cllr, or maybe that is because UKIP have no local cllrs. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with supporters or candidates posting anon, it is after all a tactic in keeping with the published techniques in UKIP Daily
Having read you comment, you talk so much contradictory rubbish that it doesn't justify an in depth answer. Golly? seriously! Golly? men don't say Golly, do they?
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???[/p][/quote]does it really Golly still Local boy just wondering what is your connection to UKIP? Don't be shy please be open and honest here. Kindred spirit of Farrage is what you appear to be to me. Yes the ancient one percieves that you are a UKIP activist of some sort, he could be wrong thou so won't accuse you of being a cllr, or maybe that is because UKIP have no local cllrs. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with supporters or candidates posting anon, it is after all a tactic in keeping with the published techniques in UKIP Daily[/p][/quote]Having read you comment, you talk so much contradictory rubbish that it doesn't justify an in depth answer. Golly? seriously! Golly? men don't say Golly, do they? LocalBoy1
  • Score: -1

12:33pm Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

LocalBoy1 wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
LocalBoy1 wrote:
@ancientandageing

So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???
does it really Golly
still Local boy just wondering what is your connection to UKIP?
Don't be shy please be open and honest here. Kindred spirit of Farrage is what you appear to be to me. Yes the ancient one percieves that you are a UKIP activist of some sort, he could be wrong thou so won't accuse you of being a cllr, or maybe that is because UKIP have no local cllrs. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with supporters or candidates posting anon, it is after all a tactic in keeping with the published techniques in UKIP Daily
Having read you comment, you talk so much contradictory rubbish that it doesn't justify an in depth answer. Golly? seriously! Golly? men don't say Golly, do they?
or indeed any answer it would appear
[quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LocalBoy1[/bold] wrote: @ancientandageing So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???............. This sounds just like another commenter who used to post on here constantly who also just HAD to have an answer, never stopped raking up old muck, so much so in fact, that OCD comes to mind yet again for this commenter???[/p][/quote]does it really Golly still Local boy just wondering what is your connection to UKIP? Don't be shy please be open and honest here. Kindred spirit of Farrage is what you appear to be to me. Yes the ancient one percieves that you are a UKIP activist of some sort, he could be wrong thou so won't accuse you of being a cllr, or maybe that is because UKIP have no local cllrs. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with supporters or candidates posting anon, it is after all a tactic in keeping with the published techniques in UKIP Daily[/p][/quote]Having read you comment, you talk so much contradictory rubbish that it doesn't justify an in depth answer. Golly? seriously! Golly? men don't say Golly, do they?[/p][/quote]or indeed any answer it would appear ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

2:00pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics.

It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians.

For instance,

Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages.

The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue

Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it

The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry

The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen




ts?

The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town.

The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter.

I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us.

I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean.

Vote UKIP
So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???
ancientandageing

I would like you to answer a very simple question.

Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?
Yawn
and I Should answer this question because you candidly answer questions, should I, So I will answer I think I am ancientandageing therefore I am ancientandageing. Now who exactly is DKYN well you tell me openly and candidly who he/she is and I will consider you request.
I would also say that you are in danger of becoming obsessive about this DKYN and might want to get some help from Localboy
A yes or a no would have done.

Instead you have quite predictably evaded the question.

So Labour
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics. It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians. For instance, Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages. The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen ts? The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town. The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter. I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us. I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean. Vote UKIP[/p][/quote]So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???[/p][/quote]ancientandageing I would like you to answer a very simple question. Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?[/p][/quote]Yawn and I Should answer this question because you candidly answer questions, should I, So I will answer I think I am ancientandageing therefore I am ancientandageing. Now who exactly is DKYN well you tell me openly and candidly who he/she is and I will consider you request. I would also say that you are in danger of becoming obsessive about this DKYN and might want to get some help from Localboy[/p][/quote]A yes or a no would have done. Instead you have quite predictably evaded the question. So Labour Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -1

3:09pm Tue 15 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics.

It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians.

For instance,

Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages.

The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue

Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it

The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry

The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen





ts?

The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town.

The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter.

I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us.

I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean.

Vote UKIP
So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???
ancientandageing

I would like you to answer a very simple question.

Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?
Yawn
and I Should answer this question because you candidly answer questions, should I, So I will answer I think I am ancientandageing therefore I am ancientandageing. Now who exactly is DKYN well you tell me openly and candidly who he/she is and I will consider you request.
I would also say that you are in danger of becoming obsessive about this DKYN and might want to get some help from Localboy
A yes or a no would have done.

Instead you have quite predictably evaded the question.

So Labour
oh the Irony
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Mike asks why people are getting turned off democracy and politics. It is down to politicians smearing others without foundation and a feeling of being powerless in the face of beaurocracy and politicians. For instance, Prominent Labour supporter and alleged local councillor DKYN's constant and rather dishonest smears on these pages. The use of council camera cars to catch as many people as possible for minor traffic offences just to raise revenue Politicians fiddling their expenses and getting away with it The LibDems washing their hands of their ex-MP Cyril Smiths long-term sexual abuse of young boys, covered up also by the establishment and Nick Cleggs recent mealy mouthed decision not to hold an enquiry The local LibDems decision to build on allotments that are protected by law and using the false promise of a new hospital to push through this dense housing development. Meanwhile their leader Nick Clegg calls for three new towns based around......would you believe.....allotmen ts? The utter contempt politicians from the LibLabCon heap on the people of this country and of this town. The unaccountable EU that makes most of our laws and which cannot be influenced by the UK where we implement those laws to the letter. I could go on but I am worried about putting myself off politics and that would never do. In fact, if you want to know why I got involved in politics instead of walking away, it's because I never lost hope despite all the abuses of power from those that we elect to govern us. I believe in a better way and if elected I will show you exactly what I mean. Vote UKIP[/p][/quote]So Phil when exactly did DKYN post on hear and just exactly who accusing DKYN of being a County Cllr or would that be you trying to smear a county cllr, which one is it please have the courage actually to say it rather than smear by Innuendo, or is that not the UKIP way???[/p][/quote]ancientandageing I would like you to answer a very simple question. Have you ever posted on this site as dontknowynot?[/p][/quote]Yawn and I Should answer this question because you candidly answer questions, should I, So I will answer I think I am ancientandageing therefore I am ancientandageing. Now who exactly is DKYN well you tell me openly and candidly who he/she is and I will consider you request. I would also say that you are in danger of becoming obsessive about this DKYN and might want to get some help from Localboy[/p][/quote]A yes or a no would have done. Instead you have quite predictably evaded the question. So Labour[/p][/quote]oh the Irony ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

11:53pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Popeonarope says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Popeonarope wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move.
Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will.
It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups.
I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk

/news/world-europe-1

4315108
The link shows that UKIP are in the same group as extremist supporters of Bravik, as I have said. They have chosen to remain in this group and will be tainted by it as long as that is the case.

As to your assertion that "there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests" its an interesting one, and somewhat of a dangerous stance if by "you" you mean "your race".
"Mr Borghezio's reported comments are shocking and, if accurately reported, reprehensible. They are in no way reflective of UKIP's position or that of the EFD Group," said a UKIP spokesman.

Im not reading what you are implying.

As for what i asserted, it is normal for countries to look after their own interests, for every culture to resist change and all individuals ensure their own comforts are met. I believe that while the UK is a open and accommodating society, some groups have taken advantage of this freedom not to coexist but to try and effect change to their own advantage / preferences. In the first and most obvious instance, religion seems to be a catalyst that requires me to take a stand against misinformation, indoctrination and state funded dogma.

I dont know if UKIP are the answer, but Labour's Blair introduced faith schools, committed us to a unjust war and sunk us into so much debt we are still feeling it. The other two parties have no credibility either, so as an alternative I am willing to back a outsider, even when such as yourself insisting they a up there with Europes worst, i dont agree.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move. Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will. It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups. I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.[/p][/quote]http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/world-europe-1 4315108 The link shows that UKIP are in the same group as extremist supporters of Bravik, as I have said. They have chosen to remain in this group and will be tainted by it as long as that is the case. As to your assertion that "there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests" its an interesting one, and somewhat of a dangerous stance if by "you" you mean "your race".[/p][/quote]"Mr Borghezio's reported comments are shocking and, if accurately reported, reprehensible. They are in no way reflective of UKIP's position or that of the EFD Group," said a UKIP spokesman. Im not reading what you are implying. As for what i asserted, it is normal for countries to look after their own interests, for every culture to resist change and all individuals ensure their own comforts are met. I believe that while the UK is a open and accommodating society, some groups have taken advantage of this freedom not to coexist but to try and effect change to their own advantage / preferences. In the first and most obvious instance, religion seems to be a catalyst that requires me to take a stand against misinformation, indoctrination and state funded dogma. I dont know if UKIP are the answer, but Labour's Blair introduced faith schools, committed us to a unjust war and sunk us into so much debt we are still feeling it. The other two parties have no credibility either, so as an alternative I am willing to back a outsider, even when such as yourself insisting they a up there with Europes worst, i dont agree. Popeonarope
  • Score: 1

10:30am Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Popeonarope wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Popeonarope wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
@phil Cox
would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today.
Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's?

Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website
Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move.
Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will.
It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups.
I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk


/news/world-europe-1


4315108
The link shows that UKIP are in the same group as extremist supporters of Bravik, as I have said. They have chosen to remain in this group and will be tainted by it as long as that is the case.

As to your assertion that "there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests" its an interesting one, and somewhat of a dangerous stance if by "you" you mean "your race".
"Mr Borghezio's reported comments are shocking and, if accurately reported, reprehensible. They are in no way reflective of UKIP's position or that of the EFD Group," said a UKIP spokesman.

Im not reading what you are implying.

As for what i asserted, it is normal for countries to look after their own interests, for every culture to resist change and all individuals ensure their own comforts are met. I believe that while the UK is a open and accommodating society, some groups have taken advantage of this freedom not to coexist but to try and effect change to their own advantage / preferences. In the first and most obvious instance, religion seems to be a catalyst that requires me to take a stand against misinformation, indoctrination and state funded dogma.

I dont know if UKIP are the answer, but Labour's Blair introduced faith schools, committed us to a unjust war and sunk us into so much debt we are still feeling it. The other two parties have no credibility either, so as an alternative I am willing to back a outsider, even when such as yourself insisting they a up there with Europes worst, i dont agree.
The thing is UKIP went further and demanded that he retract, he did not indeed he re-amplified and they did nowt!! This year UKIP remain in the same group and are seeking our votes. Read into it what you will.
Whilst Blaire may have introduced the "faith School" brand unless he has been borrowing the Doctors Tardis he hardly introduced faith schools. On the subject of debt you are just wrong when Blair left office UK national Debt was in no way problematic. As for the second gulf war it was parliament or rarther half the Lab party all the Tory Party and Blair twisting the truth that resulted in us supporting the US in its war.
Back to debt it was incurred in and after 2008 (with Brown as PM and has increased under this gov). The primary cause being the GLOBAL economic crises whose roots were in the US, this is not the 1920's and the economic decisions made here do not have the same global impact as they did ninety years ago.
As for backing UKIP on an anti religeon basis, whilst they do seem to be anti Muslim at times, I fail to see that they are anti religion, my impression is they are pro christian.
A vote for UKIP is, looking at thier policies, a vote for a Tory type party firmly routed in a Christian tradition with traditional Christian values, if that is what you want, go for it provided that you can trust them on racism , sexism and homophobia (or that you don't care about these things)
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @phil Cox would like to know as you say vote UKIP get UKIP why you and your followers take exception to me highlighting UKIP policy as it stands today. Also why you take exception to highlighting the ideas and deads of your present UKIP MEP's? Please could you answer the question and not revert to the published UKIP media manipulation technique of "putting others on the defensive" as published on the UKIP Daily website[/p][/quote]Maybe because you jump on the racist bandwagon without really understanding what you mean by racist. Associating all UKIP supports to Bravick probably wasn't your best move. Regardless of your politics the racist card is played so often now it has little meaning at most levels; the UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting cultures in the world and lets minority groups celebrate their own cultures in many ways and rightly so. Many of these groups enjoy freedoms they do not receive in their own countries yet here they have a platform and funding to do and say (within reason) what they will. It wasnt so long ago in Watford that funding was cut to 13 groups including 3 'single interest' groups by the council after 30 years, due to the financial deficits. Did the Labour Councillor Jagtar Singh Dhindsa jump up and say "Thanks for all the free cash for the last 30 years?", no, he played the race card despite knowing the cuts were across many communities and groups. I have been called a racist on several occasions due to my stance on religion. It seems to be the most often used attack when the argument has run dry, but there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests.[/p][/quote]http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/world-europe-1 4315108 The link shows that UKIP are in the same group as extremist supporters of Bravik, as I have said. They have chosen to remain in this group and will be tainted by it as long as that is the case. As to your assertion that "there is a difference in being hostile to other races and looking after your own interests" its an interesting one, and somewhat of a dangerous stance if by "you" you mean "your race".[/p][/quote]"Mr Borghezio's reported comments are shocking and, if accurately reported, reprehensible. They are in no way reflective of UKIP's position or that of the EFD Group," said a UKIP spokesman. Im not reading what you are implying. As for what i asserted, it is normal for countries to look after their own interests, for every culture to resist change and all individuals ensure their own comforts are met. I believe that while the UK is a open and accommodating society, some groups have taken advantage of this freedom not to coexist but to try and effect change to their own advantage / preferences. In the first and most obvious instance, religion seems to be a catalyst that requires me to take a stand against misinformation, indoctrination and state funded dogma. I dont know if UKIP are the answer, but Labour's Blair introduced faith schools, committed us to a unjust war and sunk us into so much debt we are still feeling it. The other two parties have no credibility either, so as an alternative I am willing to back a outsider, even when such as yourself insisting they a up there with Europes worst, i dont agree.[/p][/quote]The thing is UKIP went further and demanded that he retract, he did not indeed he re-amplified and they did nowt!! This year UKIP remain in the same group and are seeking our votes. Read into it what you will. Whilst Blaire may have introduced the "faith School" brand unless he has been borrowing the Doctors Tardis he hardly introduced faith schools. On the subject of debt you are just wrong when Blair left office UK national Debt was in no way problematic. As for the second gulf war it was parliament or rarther half the Lab party all the Tory Party and Blair twisting the truth that resulted in us supporting the US in its war. Back to debt it was incurred in and after 2008 (with Brown as PM and has increased under this gov). The primary cause being the GLOBAL economic crises whose roots were in the US, this is not the 1920's and the economic decisions made here do not have the same global impact as they did ninety years ago. As for backing UKIP on an anti religeon basis, whilst they do seem to be anti Muslim at times, I fail to see that they are anti religion, my impression is they are pro christian. A vote for UKIP is, looking at thier policies, a vote for a Tory type party firmly routed in a Christian tradition with traditional Christian values, if that is what you want, go for it provided that you can trust them on racism , sexism and homophobia (or that you don't care about these things) ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

11:13am Wed 16 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

UKIP are not anti any religious group. That's a statement of fact.

I personally and the party as a whole believe in religious tolerance. Live and let live in peace and security.

To say otherwise is to stir up racial and religious intolerance and hatred.

I am surprised that the Labour party locally would stoop so low as to try to use religious hatred to smear UKIP. I hope this backfires spectacularly when religious people of all faiths recognise what Labour is trying to do and vote UKIP.

Yet another reason why people are put off politics - all these baseless smears by political opponents and they don't care what they are stirring up in their quest for power.

It's shallow in the extreme to risk racial or religious tensions just to smear an opponent particularly when you know what you are saying is untrue.

AA (DKYN), you have a lot to answer for and should stop this dangerous nonsense. Act a bit more responsibly for you are playing with fire for your own political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed of you. I think all good people would be.

One final point. UKIP has muslim members. They know the truth about UKIP.
UKIP are not anti any religious group. That's a statement of fact. I personally and the party as a whole believe in religious tolerance. Live and let live in peace and security. To say otherwise is to stir up racial and religious intolerance and hatred. I am surprised that the Labour party locally would stoop so low as to try to use religious hatred to smear UKIP. I hope this backfires spectacularly when religious people of all faiths recognise what Labour is trying to do and vote UKIP. Yet another reason why people are put off politics - all these baseless smears by political opponents and they don't care what they are stirring up in their quest for power. It's shallow in the extreme to risk racial or religious tensions just to smear an opponent particularly when you know what you are saying is untrue. AA (DKYN), you have a lot to answer for and should stop this dangerous nonsense. Act a bit more responsibly for you are playing with fire for your own political ends. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed of you. I think all good people would be. One final point. UKIP has muslim members. They know the truth about UKIP. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 1

11:41am Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
UKIP are not anti any religious group. That's a statement of fact.

I personally and the party as a whole believe in religious tolerance. Live and let live in peace and security.

To say otherwise is to stir up racial and religious intolerance and hatred.

I am surprised that the Labour party locally would stoop so low as to try to use religious hatred to smear UKIP. I hope this backfires spectacularly when religious people of all faiths recognise what Labour is trying to do and vote UKIP.

Yet another reason why people are put off politics - all these baseless smears by political opponents and they don't care what they are stirring up in their quest for power.

It's shallow in the extreme to risk racial or religious tensions just to smear an opponent particularly when you know what you are saying is untrue.

AA (DKYN), you have a lot to answer for and should stop this dangerous nonsense. Act a bit more responsibly for you are playing with fire for your own political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed of you. I think all good people would be.

One final point. UKIP has muslim members. They know the truth about UKIP.
http://www.theguardi
an.com/politics/2014
/feb/04/ukip-mep-ger
ard-batten-muslims-s
ign-charter-rejectin
g-violence
I said that Ukip at times appear anti Muslim
Clearly this article backs that up, images of yellow stars come to mind!!
It is a concern why do you not address it, why does your party still remain in the same group as overtly racist/sexist/homoph
obic parties?
opps acting on it or actually addressing the issue would not be in keeping with UKIP local media manipulation techniques as published in UKIP daily.
On another point why do you say I am Labour, yes I vote Labour but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: UKIP are not anti any religious group. That's a statement of fact. I personally and the party as a whole believe in religious tolerance. Live and let live in peace and security. To say otherwise is to stir up racial and religious intolerance and hatred. I am surprised that the Labour party locally would stoop so low as to try to use religious hatred to smear UKIP. I hope this backfires spectacularly when religious people of all faiths recognise what Labour is trying to do and vote UKIP. Yet another reason why people are put off politics - all these baseless smears by political opponents and they don't care what they are stirring up in their quest for power. It's shallow in the extreme to risk racial or religious tensions just to smear an opponent particularly when you know what you are saying is untrue. AA (DKYN), you have a lot to answer for and should stop this dangerous nonsense. Act a bit more responsibly for you are playing with fire for your own political ends. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed of you. I think all good people would be. One final point. UKIP has muslim members. They know the truth about UKIP.[/p][/quote]http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /feb/04/ukip-mep-ger ard-batten-muslims-s ign-charter-rejectin g-violence I said that Ukip at times appear anti Muslim Clearly this article backs that up, images of yellow stars come to mind!! It is a concern why do you not address it, why does your party still remain in the same group as overtly racist/sexist/homoph obic parties? opps acting on it or actually addressing the issue would not be in keeping with UKIP local media manipulation techniques as published in UKIP daily. On another point why do you say I am Labour, yes I vote Labour but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour ancientandageing
  • Score: -4

11:49am Wed 16 Apr 14

D_Penn says...

ancientandageing said:
" ...but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour"

...and for that they must be truly grateful :)
ancientandageing said: " ...but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour" ...and for that they must be truly grateful :) D_Penn
  • Score: 3

12:05pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

D_Penn wrote:
ancientandageing said:
" ...but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour"

...and for that they must be truly grateful :)
oh my sides are splitting Geppetto returns what you been upto reading maybe; what was it:-The Evolution of the Gospel by Enoch Powell?
[quote][p][bold]D_Penn[/bold] wrote: ancientandageing said: " ...but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour" ...and for that they must be truly grateful :)[/p][/quote]oh my sides are splitting Geppetto returns what you been upto reading maybe; what was it:-The Evolution of the Gospel by Enoch Powell? ancientandageing
  • Score: -3

12:28pm Wed 16 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
UKIP are not anti any religious group. That's a statement of fact.

I personally and the party as a whole believe in religious tolerance. Live and let live in peace and security.

To say otherwise is to stir up racial and religious intolerance and hatred.

I am surprised that the Labour party locally would stoop so low as to try to use religious hatred to smear UKIP. I hope this backfires spectacularly when religious people of all faiths recognise what Labour is trying to do and vote UKIP.

Yet another reason why people are put off politics - all these baseless smears by political opponents and they don't care what they are stirring up in their quest for power.

It's shallow in the extreme to risk racial or religious tensions just to smear an opponent particularly when you know what you are saying is untrue.

AA (DKYN), you have a lot to answer for and should stop this dangerous nonsense. Act a bit more responsibly for you are playing with fire for your own political ends.

You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed of you. I think all good people would be.

One final point. UKIP has muslim members. They know the truth about UKIP.
http://www.theguardi

an.com/politics/2014

/feb/04/ukip-mep-ger

ard-batten-muslims-s

ign-charter-rejectin

g-violence
I said that Ukip at times appear anti Muslim
Clearly this article backs that up, images of yellow stars come to mind!!
It is a concern why do you not address it, why does your party still remain in the same group as overtly racist/sexist/homoph

obic parties?
opps acting on it or actually addressing the issue would not be in keeping with UKIP local media manipulation techniques as published in UKIP daily.
On another point why do you say I am Labour, yes I vote Labour but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour
What a sad mind you have to associate UKIP with the Nazi holocaust. I can't believe you are serious.

Are you genuine in your misplaced fears or jusrt stirring up racial and religious hatred for political advantage?

I will let other readers decide.

I am still ashamed you would stoop to this level of smears to try to gain political advantage whilst you know that what you say and imply is untrue.

It's a truly sad day for politics when you have to stoop so low. I hope you are known to Mike Jackson who seems a decent person and I hope he puts a stop to these antics of yours. They are dangerous and foolhardy.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: UKIP are not anti any religious group. That's a statement of fact. I personally and the party as a whole believe in religious tolerance. Live and let live in peace and security. To say otherwise is to stir up racial and religious intolerance and hatred. I am surprised that the Labour party locally would stoop so low as to try to use religious hatred to smear UKIP. I hope this backfires spectacularly when religious people of all faiths recognise what Labour is trying to do and vote UKIP. Yet another reason why people are put off politics - all these baseless smears by political opponents and they don't care what they are stirring up in their quest for power. It's shallow in the extreme to risk racial or religious tensions just to smear an opponent particularly when you know what you are saying is untrue. AA (DKYN), you have a lot to answer for and should stop this dangerous nonsense. Act a bit more responsibly for you are playing with fire for your own political ends. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed of you. I think all good people would be. One final point. UKIP has muslim members. They know the truth about UKIP.[/p][/quote]http://www.theguardi an.com/politics/2014 /feb/04/ukip-mep-ger ard-batten-muslims-s ign-charter-rejectin g-violence I said that Ukip at times appear anti Muslim Clearly this article backs that up, images of yellow stars come to mind!! It is a concern why do you not address it, why does your party still remain in the same group as overtly racist/sexist/homoph obic parties? opps acting on it or actually addressing the issue would not be in keeping with UKIP local media manipulation techniques as published in UKIP daily. On another point why do you say I am Labour, yes I vote Labour but I am hardly a spokesman or Representative of Labour[/p][/quote]What a sad mind you have to associate UKIP with the Nazi holocaust. I can't believe you are serious. Are you genuine in your misplaced fears or jusrt stirring up racial and religious hatred for political advantage? I will let other readers decide. I am still ashamed you would stoop to this level of smears to try to gain political advantage whilst you know that what you say and imply is untrue. It's a truly sad day for politics when you have to stoop so low. I hope you are known to Mike Jackson who seems a decent person and I hope he puts a stop to these antics of yours. They are dangerous and foolhardy. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 1

12:55pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

@ david penn it is not me that is associating UKIP with the Nazi party is it,
It is a UKIP MEP who proposes this charter!
it is your pals in the EDM.

I would recomend you look at Enoch Powell and ask was he an out and out vile racist (as he is portrayed today), or did he primarily pander to racists?

Both clearly wrong,but also clearly different, I would say he was racist in that he held our culture to be superior and was prepared to impose it on others, but that he had other more progress ideas as demonstrated in late 50's and his stance on equal treatment in the colonies.
Controversially I would say "rivers of Blood" was pandering to racists.
Now whilst I can accept that individual UKIP members are not overtly racist I hold that in the sense of "rivers of Blood" your party does at the very least pander to racists, that such things as this Muslim register are "naziesque" if you like and that there is a very real danger in the way that your party is seeking the vote of the BNP.
That this danger is pandering to racism, that it is reinforced by your partys continued membership of the EDM group in Europe.
So maybe look at Enoch and how he was turned into a racist icon, maybe then look at your own partys direction of traval and reflect upon what it could so easily become.
@ david penn it is not me that is associating UKIP with the Nazi party is it, It is a UKIP MEP who proposes this charter! it is your pals in the EDM. I would recomend you look at Enoch Powell and ask was he an out and out vile racist (as he is portrayed today), or did he primarily pander to racists? Both clearly wrong,but also clearly different, I would say he was racist in that he held our culture to be superior and was prepared to impose it on others, but that he had other more progress ideas as demonstrated in late 50's and his stance on equal treatment in the colonies. Controversially I would say "rivers of Blood" was pandering to racists. Now whilst I can accept that individual UKIP members are not overtly racist I hold that in the sense of "rivers of Blood" your party does at the very least pander to racists, that such things as this Muslim register are "naziesque" if you like and that there is a very real danger in the way that your party is seeking the vote of the BNP. That this danger is pandering to racism, that it is reinforced by your partys continued membership of the EDM group in Europe. So maybe look at Enoch and how he was turned into a racist icon, maybe then look at your own partys direction of traval and reflect upon what it could so easily become. ancientandageing
  • Score: -2

1:00pm Wed 16 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Well, I take my hat of to Mike Wright, Chief Reporter WO. If there is little news, then create it. A very thought provoking and politically stimulating article... 107 comments and still climbing. The usual muck slinging crowd are thriving on it of course all 40/50 of them out of a Watford population of around 90.000. not bad!
Well, I take my hat of to Mike Wright, Chief Reporter WO. If there is little news, then create it. A very thought provoking and politically stimulating article... 107 comments and still climbing. The usual muck slinging crowd are thriving on it of course all 40/50 of them out of a Watford population of around 90.000. not bad! LocalBoy1
  • Score: 1

1:07pm Wed 16 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Racial and religious hatred.

As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.
Racial and religious hatred. As stirred by the Watford Labour Party. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

1:08pm Wed 16 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

So sad to see
So sad to see Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Wed 16 Apr 14

D_Penn says...

ancientandageing wrote:
@ david penn it is not me that is associating UKIP with the Nazi party is it, It is a UKIP MEP who proposes this charter! it is your pals in the EDM. I would recomend you look at Enoch Powell and ask was he an out and out vile racist (as he is portrayed today), or did he primarily pander to racists? Both clearly wrong,but also clearly different, I would say he was racist in that he held our culture to be superior and was prepared to impose it on others, but that he had other more progress ideas as demonstrated in late 50's and his stance on equal treatment in the colonies. Controversially I would say "rivers of Blood" was pandering to racists. Now whilst I can accept that individual UKIP members are not overtly racist I hold that in the sense of "rivers of Blood" your party does at the very least pander to racists, that such things as this Muslim register are "naziesque" if you like and that there is a very real danger in the way that your party is seeking the vote of the BNP. That this danger is pandering to racism, that it is reinforced by your partys continued membership of the EDM group in Europe. So maybe look at Enoch and how he was turned into a racist icon, maybe then look at your own partys direction of traval and reflect upon what it could so easily become.
You are responding to the wrong person since your 'Nazi' debate was with someone else.

Your increasingly desperate and delusional rantings over minor side-issues confirms that you know that UKIP has won all the important arguments and now all you have left to throw is the shameless mud pies you invent as you go along. Sad.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: @ david penn it is not me that is associating UKIP with the Nazi party is it, It is a UKIP MEP who proposes this charter! it is your pals in the EDM. I would recomend you look at Enoch Powell and ask was he an out and out vile racist (as he is portrayed today), or did he primarily pander to racists? Both clearly wrong,but also clearly different, I would say he was racist in that he held our culture to be superior and was prepared to impose it on others, but that he had other more progress ideas as demonstrated in late 50's and his stance on equal treatment in the colonies. Controversially I would say "rivers of Blood" was pandering to racists. Now whilst I can accept that individual UKIP members are not overtly racist I hold that in the sense of "rivers of Blood" your party does at the very least pander to racists, that such things as this Muslim register are "naziesque" if you like and that there is a very real danger in the way that your party is seeking the vote of the BNP. That this danger is pandering to racism, that it is reinforced by your partys continued membership of the EDM group in Europe. So maybe look at Enoch and how he was turned into a racist icon, maybe then look at your own partys direction of traval and reflect upon what it could so easily become.[/p][/quote]You are responding to the wrong person since your 'Nazi' debate was with someone else. Your increasingly desperate and delusional rantings over minor side-issues confirms that you know that UKIP has won all the important arguments and now all you have left to throw is the shameless mud pies you invent as you go along. Sad. D_Penn
  • Score: 1

1:29pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

but Anton we both know that is not true
but Anton we both know that is not true ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

3:10pm Wed 16 Apr 14

CaptainPC says...

Is it wrong to want to live on your own....?
Is it wrong to want to live on your own....? CaptainPC
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Racial and religious hatred.

As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.
SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES

1) no racial hatred has been stirred
2) no religious hatred has been stirred
3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway)

all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe

SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!!
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Racial and religious hatred. As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.[/p][/quote]SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES 1) no racial hatred has been stirred 2) no religious hatred has been stirred 3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway) all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!! ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

4:32pm Wed 16 Apr 14

Popeonarope says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Racial and religious hatred.

As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.
SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES

1) no racial hatred has been stirred
2) no religious hatred has been stirred
3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway)

all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe

SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!!
Pathetic. Youre the only one making it an issue.
Maybe if you examine your own prejudices you will understand why.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Racial and religious hatred. As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.[/p][/quote]SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES 1) no racial hatred has been stirred 2) no religious hatred has been stirred 3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway) all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!![/p][/quote]Pathetic. Youre the only one making it an issue. Maybe if you examine your own prejudices you will understand why. Popeonarope
  • Score: 2

5:32pm Wed 16 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Racial and religious hatred.

As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.
SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES

1) no racial hatred has been stirred
2) no religious hatred has been stirred
3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway)

all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe

SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!!
You are the sort of person that would give a political party a bad name.

If you were in UKIP I would track you down and throw you out of the party for amongst other things stirring religious tensions and hatred.

The Labour party should disown you. The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue but now even your own party must be feeling quite embarrassed by your posts, no matter what position you hold in the party.

You do UKIP no end of good with your crazy posts but really I would rather not have your unintentional support if it means stirring racial and religious tensions in our wonderful town.

You are too fruitcake even for UKIP! No wonder the WO stopped you posting. I hope they do it again.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Racial and religious hatred. As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.[/p][/quote]SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES 1) no racial hatred has been stirred 2) no religious hatred has been stirred 3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway) all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!![/p][/quote]You are the sort of person that would give a political party a bad name. If you were in UKIP I would track you down and throw you out of the party for amongst other things stirring religious tensions and hatred. The Labour party should disown you. The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue but now even your own party must be feeling quite embarrassed by your posts, no matter what position you hold in the party. You do UKIP no end of good with your crazy posts but really I would rather not have your unintentional support if it means stirring racial and religious tensions in our wonderful town. You are too fruitcake even for UKIP! No wonder the WO stopped you posting. I hope they do it again. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 1

6:19pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Popeonarope wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
Racial and religious hatred.

As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.
SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES

1) no racial hatred has been stirred
2) no religious hatred has been stirred
3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway)

all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe

SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!!
Pathetic. Youre the only one making it an issue.
Maybe if you examine your own prejudices you will understand why.
ok then lets get started

first clear up the facts what exactly have I said that is so pathetic in your opinion.
Also what justification has Phil Cox got for saying that Watford Labour Party is steering up race and religious hate
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: Racial and religious hatred. As stirred by the Watford Labour Party.[/p][/quote]SO PHIL COX YOU ARE NOW THE PURVEYOR OF BARE FACED LIES 1) no racial hatred has been stirred 2) no religious hatred has been stirred 3) There is no member of the Watford Labour Party on posting on this thread (to my knowledge anyway) all that I have done is look at UKIP MEP's and what they have said, that and the connection to the EDM group in Europe SO i CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN SHOULD YOU ENGAGE THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE LAND, YOU WOULD LOSS THAT YOU ARE AN OUT AND OUT LIAR MR PHIL COX UKIP CANDIDATE, FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN!![/p][/quote]Pathetic. Youre the only one making it an issue. Maybe if you examine your own prejudices you will understand why.[/p][/quote]ok then lets get started first clear up the facts what exactly have I said that is so pathetic in your opinion. Also what justification has Phil Cox got for saying that Watford Labour Party is steering up race and religious hate ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

6:50pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox the ukip liar says

"The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue"

ROTFLMAO
I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!!
THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???
Phil Cox the ukip liar says "The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue" ROTFLMAO I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!! THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT??? ancientandageing
  • Score: -2

11:18pm Wed 16 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox the ukip liar says

"The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue"

ROTFLMAO
I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!!
THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???
BTW I can't bear this right wing Blairite come Tory, but he is right here:-

http://blogs.telegra
ph.co.uk/news/danhod
ges/100261889/ukip-a
re-now-a-racist-part
y/

plus of course it is the Torygraph,

but he says it plain and simple "Ukip is now a racist party"
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: Phil Cox the ukip liar says "The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue" ROTFLMAO I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!! THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???[/p][/quote]BTW I can't bear this right wing Blairite come Tory, but he is right here:- http://blogs.telegra ph.co.uk/news/danhod ges/100261889/ukip-a re-now-a-racist-part y/ plus of course it is the Torygraph, but he says it plain and simple "Ukip is now a racist party" ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

11:37pm Wed 16 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

ancientandageing wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox the ukip liar says

"The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue"

ROTFLMAO
I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!!
THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???
BTW I can't bear this right wing Blairite come Tory, but he is right here:-

http://blogs.telegra

ph.co.uk/news/danhod

ges/100261889/ukip-a

re-now-a-racist-part

y/

plus of course it is the Torygraph,

but he says it plain and simple "Ukip is now a racist party"
Now, why has Dan Hodges said such a thing? And who is Dan Hodges?

This is what Dan Hodges says about himself in the Telegraph....

Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges.

---- Clearly there might be a bit of left-wing Labour bias there, don't you think?

UKIP is anti-racist. All political parties should sign up to the same ideal.
[quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: Phil Cox the ukip liar says "The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue" ROTFLMAO I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!! THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???[/p][/quote]BTW I can't bear this right wing Blairite come Tory, but he is right here:- http://blogs.telegra ph.co.uk/news/danhod ges/100261889/ukip-a re-now-a-racist-part y/ plus of course it is the Torygraph, but he says it plain and simple "Ukip is now a racist party"[/p][/quote]Now, why has Dan Hodges said such a thing? And who is Dan Hodges? This is what Dan Hodges says about himself in the Telegraph.... Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges. ---- Clearly there might be a bit of left-wing Labour bias there, don't you think? UKIP is anti-racist. All political parties should sign up to the same ideal. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 2

7:22am Thu 17 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
ancientandageing wrote:
Phil Cox the ukip liar says

"The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue"

ROTFLMAO
I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!!
THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???
BTW I can't bear this right wing Blairite come Tory, but he is right here:-

http://blogs.telegra


ph.co.uk/news/danhod


ges/100261889/ukip-a


re-now-a-racist-part


y/

plus of course it is the Torygraph,

but he says it plain and simple "Ukip is now a racist party"
Now, why has Dan Hodges said such a thing? And who is Dan Hodges?

This is what Dan Hodges says about himself in the Telegraph....

Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges.

---- Clearly there might be a bit of left-wing Labour bias there, don't you think?

UKIP is anti-racist. All political parties should sign up to the same ideal.
Dan Hodges Left Wing ohh stop it please, I am not to sure my bladder can take much more of this.
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ancientandageing[/bold] wrote: Phil Cox the ukip liar says "The rumours of who you really are may explain why you have been allowed to continue" ROTFLMAO I mean you just could not make it up, well I suppose you did!! THAT WOULD BE THE "RUMOURS" YOU AND YOUR PARTY FAITHFUL HAVE MADE UP WOULD IT???[/p][/quote]BTW I can't bear this right wing Blairite come Tory, but he is right here:- http://blogs.telegra ph.co.uk/news/danhod ges/100261889/ukip-a re-now-a-racist-part y/ plus of course it is the Torygraph, but he says it plain and simple "Ukip is now a racist party"[/p][/quote]Now, why has Dan Hodges said such a thing? And who is Dan Hodges? This is what Dan Hodges says about himself in the Telegraph.... Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges. ---- Clearly there might be a bit of left-wing Labour bias there, don't you think? UKIP is anti-racist. All political parties should sign up to the same ideal.[/p][/quote]Dan Hodges Left Wing ohh stop it please, I am not to sure my bladder can take much more of this. ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

7:50am Thu 17 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

A labour party supporter, with tribal loyalty, lying about UKIP.

Who would have thought it?
A labour party supporter, with tribal loyalty, lying about UKIP. Who would have thought it? Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -1

8:01am Thu 17 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
A labour party supporter, with tribal loyalty, lying about UKIP.

Who would have thought it?
Phil cox the Liar says Dan Hodges is lying about UKIP, now that would be defamatory, oh hang on its Phil Cox the Liar saying it, and he has no credibility ergo won't be believed and no damage done .

What is revealing thou is your utter distaste for the Left the way you use the term "left wing" is as an insult, why would that be???

Oh I forgot you don't do Answers do you? (that is rhetorical you don't need to answer)
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: A labour party supporter, with tribal loyalty, lying about UKIP. Who would have thought it?[/p][/quote]Phil cox the Liar says Dan Hodges is lying about UKIP, now that would be defamatory, oh hang on its Phil Cox the Liar saying it, and he has no credibility ergo won't be believed and no damage done . What is revealing thou is your utter distaste for the Left the way you use the term "left wing" is as an insult, why would that be??? Oh I forgot you don't do Answers do you? (that is rhetorical you don't need to answer) ancientandageing
  • Score: -1

8:11am Thu 17 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

UKIP is not a racist party. We are the only party that refuses to accept people who have been members of racist organisations in the past.

The Labour party accepts that.

The Conservative party accepts that.

The LibDems accept that.

Why do you not accept that?

Are you trying to illuminate the truth or cause the fog of confusion?

Any reader of your comments will know the answer.
UKIP is not a racist party. We are the only party that refuses to accept people who have been members of racist organisations in the past. The Labour party accepts that. The Conservative party accepts that. The LibDems accept that. Why do you not accept that? Are you trying to illuminate the truth or cause the fog of confusion? Any reader of your comments will know the answer. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

8:15am Thu 17 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

I have no more distaste for extreme left-wingers than I have for extreme right-wingers. I do not like extremists as they tend not to care about the truth, honesty or decency. They care only about winning. At any cost.

Tribal describes a mindset that ignores logic and reason. Would you describe yourself as tribal labour?
I have no more distaste for extreme left-wingers than I have for extreme right-wingers. I do not like extremists as they tend not to care about the truth, honesty or decency. They care only about winning. At any cost. Tribal describes a mindset that ignores logic and reason. Would you describe yourself as tribal labour? Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

9:16am Thu 17 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
I have no more distaste for extreme left-wingers than I have for extreme right-wingers. I do not like extremists as they tend not to care about the truth, honesty or decency. They care only about winning. At any cost.

Tribal describes a mindset that ignores logic and reason. Would you describe yourself as tribal labour?
just listen to yourself

extreme left wing- oh look there are left wing bogeymen, don't leave a chink in the curtain, the militant communistic Dan Hodges is going to get thro the window and brand you a racist.

BTW in a newspaper if it says:-
"Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges." that would be an editorial statement and not a statement by the columnist wouldn't it? (again you don't have to answer)
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: I have no more distaste for extreme left-wingers than I have for extreme right-wingers. I do not like extremists as they tend not to care about the truth, honesty or decency. They care only about winning. At any cost. Tribal describes a mindset that ignores logic and reason. Would you describe yourself as tribal labour?[/p][/quote]just listen to yourself extreme left wing- oh look there are left wing bogeymen, don't leave a chink in the curtain, the militant communistic Dan Hodges is going to get thro the window and brand you a racist. BTW in a newspaper if it says:- "Dan Hodges is a former Labour Party and GMB trade union official, and has managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation. He is on Twitter at @dpjhodges." that would be an editorial statement and not a statement by the columnist wouldn't it? (again you don't have to answer) ancientandageing
  • Score: 1

12:44pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

It would be ridiculous to think that any such statement did not have the approval of the columnist involved.
It would be ridiculous to think that any such statement did not have the approval of the columnist involved. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Thu 17 Apr 14

ancientandageing says...

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford wrote:
It would be ridiculous to think that any such statement did not have the approval of the columnist involved.
I am sure he might be flattered by the Editors description of him, he is no more a member of the Labour party than I am (but for different reasons) Tribal Labour I doubt thou in his mind he is, Tribal "new Labour, Blairite" is closer to the mark.

In no way can he be described as an "extreme left winger", he is firmly in the center ground and he is calling YOUR PARTY RACIST,

VOTE UKIP GET A RACIST PARTY
(according to the headline writer for Dan Hodges(and I suppose Dan Hodges who must of approved it))
[quote][p][bold]Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford[/bold] wrote: It would be ridiculous to think that any such statement did not have the approval of the columnist involved.[/p][/quote]I am sure he might be flattered by the Editors description of him, he is no more a member of the Labour party than I am (but for different reasons) Tribal Labour I doubt thou in his mind he is, Tribal "new Labour, Blairite" is closer to the mark. In no way can he be described as an "extreme left winger", he is firmly in the center ground and he is calling YOUR PARTY RACIST, VOTE UKIP GET A RACIST PARTY (according to the headline writer for Dan Hodges(and I suppose Dan Hodges who must of approved it)) ancientandageing
  • Score: 0

2:23pm Thu 17 Apr 14

Popeonarope says...

What started as a good piece has deteriorated into a boring repetitive monologue exactly in the same way as the subjects commented on by the overbearing, tedious DKYN used to be. Wonder why that is?
What started as a good piece has deteriorated into a boring repetitive monologue exactly in the same way as the subjects commented on by the overbearing, tedious DKYN used to be. Wonder why that is? Popeonarope
  • Score: 2

3:06pm Thu 17 Apr 14

LocalBoy1 says...

Popeonarope wrote:
What started as a good piece has deteriorated into a boring repetitive monologue exactly in the same way as the subjects commented on by the overbearing, tedious DKYN used to be. Wonder why that is?
I agree with you.... Mike Wright wrote a good article, just at the right time. Now look at the state of the comments. Two people going at each other hammer and tongs constantly. I am unfamiliar with DKYN, but I do
remember "dontyouknownot" or something like that. This "ancientandaging" is sounding just the same.
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: What started as a good piece has deteriorated into a boring repetitive monologue exactly in the same way as the subjects commented on by the overbearing, tedious DKYN used to be. Wonder why that is?[/p][/quote]I agree with you.... Mike Wright wrote a good article, just at the right time. Now look at the state of the comments. Two people going at each other hammer and tongs constantly. I am unfamiliar with DKYN, but I do remember "dontyouknownot" or something like that. This "ancientandaging" is sounding just the same. LocalBoy1
  • Score: 2

12:50pm Fri 18 Apr 14

D_Penn says...

Direct from the UKIP constitution...

"The Party shall conduct itself and its affairs in such a way that it does not discriminate against or in favour of any person on the grounds of their race, religion, ethnic origin, education, beliefs, sexual orientation, class, social status, sectarianism or any other basis prescribed by law."
Direct from the UKIP constitution... "The Party shall conduct itself and its affairs in such a way that it does not discriminate against or in favour of any person on the grounds of their race, religion, ethnic origin, education, beliefs, sexual orientation, class, social status, sectarianism or any other basis prescribed by law." D_Penn
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Fri 18 Apr 14

Cuetip says...

Popeonarope wrote:
What started as a good piece has deteriorated into a boring repetitive monologue exactly in the same way as the subjects commented on by the overbearing, tedious DKYN used to be. Wonder why that is?
Tedious Yes

The main question which is continually being asked, do any of the main stream parties really practice what they preach as regards broadening their appeal in terms of gender, class and ethnicity.

Are some groups like turkeys merely voting for Christmas as once the election is over their concerns about jobs, housing, services quietly pushed aside?

This leaves a growing number alienated from politics as they see MPs busy themselves filling in expense forms as yet more expense scandals emerge.

The 2010 general election, analysis of the 650 MPs shows 503 are male and 27 are from an ethnic minority background. I feel that the overwhelmingly male-dominated make-up of parliament members speaks for itself as regards any party playing the race card.

Compare this with the ethnicity statistic of the 2011 census figures. This reveals that the percentage of Britons born outside of the UK is 13 per cent of the population, not taking into account second or third generation migrants who have family members who remember the days of Enoch Powell and the vile 1964 Conservative slogan used in Smethwick that ran, “If you want a n****r neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour.”

But the evidence clearly shows the average politician from Labour, Liberal or Conservative would be as follows: a white British male, from a fairly affluent background, privately educated and if not an Oxbridge graduate then almost certainly a university graduate. What happened to eg sexism?

With an ever burgeoning immigrant population and an ever diversifying society, political leaders are fully aware - regardless of what they truly believe - that it's all about playing lip service to attracting a diverse range of voters to guarantee success in the polls.
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: What started as a good piece has deteriorated into a boring repetitive monologue exactly in the same way as the subjects commented on by the overbearing, tedious DKYN used to be. Wonder why that is?[/p][/quote]Tedious Yes The main question which is continually being asked, do any of the main stream parties really practice what they preach as regards broadening their appeal in terms of gender, class and ethnicity. Are some groups like turkeys merely voting for Christmas as once the election is over their concerns about jobs, housing, services quietly pushed aside? This leaves a growing number alienated from politics as they see MPs busy themselves filling in expense forms as yet more expense scandals emerge. The 2010 general election, analysis of the 650 MPs shows 503 are male and 27 are from an ethnic minority background. I feel that the overwhelmingly male-dominated make-up of parliament members speaks for itself as regards any party playing the race card. Compare this with the ethnicity statistic of the 2011 census figures. This reveals that the percentage of Britons born outside of the UK is 13 per cent of the population, not taking into account second or third generation migrants who have family members who remember the days of Enoch Powell and the vile 1964 Conservative slogan used in Smethwick that ran, “If you want a n****r neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour.” But the evidence clearly shows the average politician from Labour, Liberal or Conservative would be as follows: a white British male, from a fairly affluent background, privately educated and if not an Oxbridge graduate then almost certainly a university graduate. What happened to eg sexism? With an ever burgeoning immigrant population and an ever diversifying society, political leaders are fully aware - regardless of what they truly believe - that it's all about playing lip service to attracting a diverse range of voters to guarantee success in the polls. Cuetip
  • Score: 0

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