Police investigating 'draw Muhammad day' posters

Watford Observer: Police investigating "draw Muhammad day" posters Police investigating "draw Muhammad day" posters

Police are investigating a series of hand-drawn posters put up around West Watford depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

Hertfordshire Constabulary is appealing for information about the posters, which had for "draw Muhammad day" written on them.

The posters, which also carried slogans such as "death to those who insult free speech", appear to be linked to a campaign that started in 2010 relating to the censorship of an episode of the cartoon South Park.

Police Inspector Nick Lillitou said: "We have been made aware of these posters and are investigating their origin. If anyone has information about who put these up they are asked to contact police via the non-emergency number, 101. I’d also urge anyone who has concerns to contact PC Pat Davey, who is Watford’s dedicated Hate Crime Officer on 01923 472085."  

The police appeal comes after the posters became an issue in Monday night’s mayoral hustings debate in Watford.

Elected mayor, Dorothy Thornhill, said she felt it was "no coincidence" the posters had appeared at the same time that UK Independence Party was standing in the mayoral elections for the first time.

Yesterday the UKIP candidate, Phil Cox, accused the mayor of using the posters for "political ends".

He added he had been around West Watford yesterday taking down the posters himself before handing them into the police.

Comments (75)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

1:32pm Wed 21 May 14

G_Whiz says...

Why can't we ban all religions and just get along eh!
Why can't we ban all religions and just get along eh! G_Whiz
  • Score: 6

2:02pm Wed 21 May 14

D_Penn says...

What is wrong with some warped people that they enjoy spending their time going around with the deliberate aim of upsetting and annoying people?

I really hope the police find those responsible.
What is wrong with some warped people that they enjoy spending their time going around with the deliberate aim of upsetting and annoying people? I really hope the police find those responsible. D_Penn
  • Score: 8

2:15pm Wed 21 May 14

garston tony says...

If these posters are worthy of investigation why where they not dealt with prior to Monday? How long have they been up with seemingly no one bothered about it?

I'd be interested to hear from Muslims as to their opinion of the posters. If they've been up a few days says a lot if non one reported it to the police prior to Phil Cox when they have been up in an area in which a lot of Muslims live. Are they really offended by them?
If these posters are worthy of investigation why where they not dealt with prior to Monday? How long have they been up with seemingly no one bothered about it? I'd be interested to hear from Muslims as to their opinion of the posters. If they've been up a few days says a lot if non one reported it to the police prior to Phil Cox when they have been up in an area in which a lot of Muslims live. Are they really offended by them? garston tony
  • Score: 8

3:58pm Wed 21 May 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Good point Tony and that puzzled me a little too.

Until Monday night I had not heard of the racist posters until it was thrown up as a question. Clearly some people knew about them, but those people had decided to do nothing about it. Let's call it political games.

Their discovery was used to back a question trying to paint UKIP as racist.

Why didn't they report it to the police first? Or even afterwards?

That is what is so strange.

Instead, they left them up on the lamposts.

Was it to make some political point? If so, shame on them.

At about 9 the next morning I set off on a bike into West Watford. I asked people in the street whether they had seen any racist posters on lamposts. At that time I didn't know exactly what I was looking for. No-one had noticed anything. Not even the shopkeeper near where I had later found one.

In the end I started to find them, removed them and took them to the police as evidence where they reported it as a crime.

So, clearly a number of local people had not seen them despite most likely walking past them several times. It makes you wonder what really is going on.

Who stands to gain at election time keeps ringing through my head. Why did some people see them and do nothing but bring it up at a political hustings?

Too many questions, too few answers. Not enough honesty and decency.

A vote in the right box tomorrow could change all that.
Good point Tony and that puzzled me a little too. Until Monday night I had not heard of the racist posters until it was thrown up as a question. Clearly some people knew about them, but those people had decided to do nothing about it. Let's call it political games. Their discovery was used to back a question trying to paint UKIP as racist. Why didn't they report it to the police first? Or even afterwards? That is what is so strange. Instead, they left them up on the lamposts. Was it to make some political point? If so, shame on them. At about 9 the next morning I set off on a bike into West Watford. I asked people in the street whether they had seen any racist posters on lamposts. At that time I didn't know exactly what I was looking for. No-one had noticed anything. Not even the shopkeeper near where I had later found one. In the end I started to find them, removed them and took them to the police as evidence where they reported it as a crime. So, clearly a number of local people had not seen them despite most likely walking past them several times. It makes you wonder what really is going on. Who stands to gain at election time keeps ringing through my head. Why did some people see them and do nothing but bring it up at a political hustings? Too many questions, too few answers. Not enough honesty and decency. A vote in the right box tomorrow could change all that. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: 0

4:03pm Wed 21 May 14

angryangryangry says...

Didnt see them myself......or Mr Cox taking them down either! Nobody in the area seems to be aware of them either!

I did see the Alien UFO landing in the street though.....but they flew away again in case they were accused of being racist or immigrants!
Didnt see them myself......or Mr Cox taking them down either! Nobody in the area seems to be aware of them either! I did see the Alien UFO landing in the street though.....but they flew away again in case they were accused of being racist or immigrants! angryangryangry
  • Score: 1

4:12pm Wed 21 May 14

Playa says...

Actually these were first spotted on Sunday and reported to both the Mayor Dorothy and to the police. All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them. They have also been taken down to prevent tensions within the community.

What is most shameful is that all the political parties have been using this for their own political ends by blaming each other. Rather it is the whole system that is to blame.

We thank the police who have taken the matter seriously and have been patrolling the area.
Actually these were first spotted on Sunday and reported to both the Mayor Dorothy and to the police. All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them. They have also been taken down to prevent tensions within the community. What is most shameful is that all the political parties have been using this for their own political ends by blaming each other. Rather it is the whole system that is to blame. We thank the police who have taken the matter seriously and have been patrolling the area. Playa
  • Score: 12

4:47pm Wed 21 May 14

Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford says...

Playa wrote:
Actually these were first spotted on Sunday and reported to both the Mayor Dorothy and to the police. All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them. They have also been taken down to prevent tensions within the community.

What is most shameful is that all the political parties have been using this for their own political ends by blaming each other. Rather it is the whole system that is to blame.

We thank the police who have taken the matter seriously and have been patrolling the area.
That's not what the police told me.

I have no idea who Playa is, however when I reported the incident to the police on Tuesday morning they told me that the issue had not previously been reported by a member of the public.

I was the member of the public that reported the crime and the crime was created from my complaint, on Tuesday morning, as reported.

Playa, what is the crime number or the incident number? I would like to check out why the police ignored your reporting this crime.

You don't have to give any details, just the police number they gave you when you reported the crime.
[quote][p][bold]Playa[/bold] wrote: Actually these were first spotted on Sunday and reported to both the Mayor Dorothy and to the police. All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them. They have also been taken down to prevent tensions within the community. What is most shameful is that all the political parties have been using this for their own political ends by blaming each other. Rather it is the whole system that is to blame. We thank the police who have taken the matter seriously and have been patrolling the area.[/p][/quote]That's not what the police told me. I have no idea who Playa is, however when I reported the incident to the police on Tuesday morning they told me that the issue had not previously been reported by a member of the public. I was the member of the public that reported the crime and the crime was created from my complaint, on Tuesday morning, as reported. Playa, what is the crime number or the incident number? I would like to check out why the police ignored your reporting this crime. You don't have to give any details, just the police number they gave you when you reported the crime. Phil Cox - UKIP Mayoral candidate for Watford
  • Score: -2

10:32am Thu 22 May 14

garston tony says...

Playa wrote:
Actually these were first spotted on Sunday and reported to both the Mayor Dorothy and to the police. All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them. They have also been taken down to prevent tensions within the community. What is most shameful is that all the political parties have been using this for their own political ends by blaming each other. Rather it is the whole system that is to blame. We thank the police who have taken the matter seriously and have been patrolling the area.
Thank you Playa for giving us the perspective of a Muslim, I dont think anyone is saying you are not right to be offended by the posters either.

But you are right it is disgusting that politicians are trying to make a gain from this, although to be fair it does seem Phil Cox is defending himself and his party from allegations and its really good old Dotty who is trying to use them to her benefit.
[quote][p][bold]Playa[/bold] wrote: Actually these were first spotted on Sunday and reported to both the Mayor Dorothy and to the police. All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them. They have also been taken down to prevent tensions within the community. What is most shameful is that all the political parties have been using this for their own political ends by blaming each other. Rather it is the whole system that is to blame. We thank the police who have taken the matter seriously and have been patrolling the area.[/p][/quote]Thank you Playa for giving us the perspective of a Muslim, I dont think anyone is saying you are not right to be offended by the posters either. But you are right it is disgusting that politicians are trying to make a gain from this, although to be fair it does seem Phil Cox is defending himself and his party from allegations and its really good old Dotty who is trying to use them to her benefit. garston tony
  • Score: 4

2:00pm Thu 22 May 14

Hertfordshire Constabulary says...

Police were informed of this matter by several different people at around about the same time. Those details have been collated and the matter is being investigated by the Watford Safer Neighbourhood Team. Our investigation continues and anyone who witnessed the posters being put up or has any information is urged to contact us on the non-emergency number 101 or PC Pat Davey on 01923 472085.
Police were informed of this matter by several different people at around about the same time. Those details have been collated and the matter is being investigated by the Watford Safer Neighbourhood Team. Our investigation continues and anyone who witnessed the posters being put up or has any information is urged to contact us on the non-emergency number 101 or PC Pat Davey on 01923 472085. Hertfordshire Constabulary
  • Score: 4

2:09pm Thu 22 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

>All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them.<

Is there anything at all in our country or British society that Muslims AREN'T offended by? They seem to take offence at just about anything and everything!
Perhaps it's about time they stopped being so hypersensitive and developed a thicker skin and, above all, a sense of humour.
>All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them.< Is there anything at all in our country or British society that Muslims AREN'T offended by? They seem to take offence at just about anything and everything! Perhaps it's about time they stopped being so hypersensitive and developed a thicker skin and, above all, a sense of humour. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -4

3:01pm Thu 22 May 14

D_Penn says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
&gt;All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them.&lt; Is there anything at all in our country or British society that Muslims AREN'T offended by? They seem to take offence at just about anything and everything! Perhaps it's about time they stopped being so hypersensitive and developed a thicker skin and, above all, a sense of humour.
Roy, you should be aware that this was not some an incident of some drawings innocently being put up. This was somebody deliberately setting out to annoy and upset people by deliberately producing images designed to be as offensive as possible.

People should respect the beliefs of others because, if we were all to go out and deliberately do something we knew would make our neighbours angry, it's pretty obvious that soon there would be fights everywhere and the country would be in total chaos.

You should be condemning the person or persons who did this because they are the trouble makers, not their Muslim targets.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: >All posters were taken down immediately mostly by the Muslim community because we are offended by these and have every right to be offended by them.< Is there anything at all in our country or British society that Muslims AREN'T offended by? They seem to take offence at just about anything and everything! Perhaps it's about time they stopped being so hypersensitive and developed a thicker skin and, above all, a sense of humour.[/p][/quote]Roy, you should be aware that this was not some an incident of some drawings innocently being put up. This was somebody deliberately setting out to annoy and upset people by deliberately producing images designed to be as offensive as possible. People should respect the beliefs of others because, if we were all to go out and deliberately do something we knew would make our neighbours angry, it's pretty obvious that soon there would be fights everywhere and the country would be in total chaos. You should be condemning the person or persons who did this because they are the trouble makers, not their Muslim targets. D_Penn
  • Score: 2

3:38pm Thu 22 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

And we, the indigenous British who can establish our ancestry back to the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, of course, are not allowed to be offended by aggressive, fundamentalist Muslims attempting to force their backward culture onto us, challenging our entire culture and way of life and refusing to integrate and become British? Nobody asked them to come here in such numbers and try to bring about the Islamification of Britain, as the more radical appear to want.

I respect the right of people to believe in something, but as a well-known opponent of ALL religions I cannot respect the belief itself, since I consider Islam to be feudal and medieval and totally alien to British culture. Respecting someone's right to follow a belief is NOT the same thing at all as actually respecting the belief itself. The trouble with Muslims is, they seem to be offended by just about everything, as I said, and I know I am far from being the only one fed up with their complaints and moans.
And we, the indigenous British who can establish our ancestry back to the Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, of course, are not allowed to be offended by aggressive, fundamentalist Muslims attempting to force their backward culture onto us, challenging our entire culture and way of life and refusing to integrate and become British? Nobody asked them to come here in such numbers and try to bring about the Islamification of Britain, as the more radical appear to want. I respect the right of people to believe in something, but as a well-known opponent of ALL religions I cannot respect the belief itself, since I consider Islam to be feudal and medieval and totally alien to British culture. Respecting someone's right to follow a belief is NOT the same thing at all as actually respecting the belief itself. The trouble with Muslims is, they seem to be offended by just about everything, as I said, and I know I am far from being the only one fed up with their complaints and moans. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

6:40pm Thu 22 May 14

Popeonarope says...

These posters were designed to insult and raise temperatures and as a result they should be investigated by the police as it is incitement but there is very little that does not raise criticism from Muslims.

However, I am offended regularly by this religion but no one cares about that. From its pedophile prophet to its treatment of women to its fatwa on Sir Salman Rushdie, the list goes on.
The vast majority of Muslims in the UK are moderates but having recently worked in UAE, Qatar and Saudi Arabia i can honestly see why they are here and not under the Islamic Caliphate.
Anjem Choudary and his Islam4UK associates have made it very clear what they are offended by; which is everything that does not devote itself to Islam.
From faith schools, to sharia to halal meat, the religion is rarely out of the news for all the wrong reasons. For example it is one year to the day that two Muslims murdered Lee Rigby in the middle of the street in London.

Islam is another seditious and dangerous religion that is at the center of some of the worlds worse crimes against humanity, miscarriages of justice and retardation of science and free inquiry. So if some idiot put up some posters that were offensive i would have to suggest the obvious response would be "so what...?".
These posters were designed to insult and raise temperatures and as a result they should be investigated by the police as it is incitement but there is very little that does not raise criticism from Muslims. However, I am offended regularly by this religion but no one cares about that. From its pedophile prophet to its treatment of women to its fatwa on Sir Salman Rushdie, the list goes on. The vast majority of Muslims in the UK are moderates but having recently worked in UAE, Qatar and Saudi Arabia i can honestly see why they are here and not under the Islamic Caliphate. Anjem Choudary and his Islam4UK associates have made it very clear what they are offended by; which is everything that does not devote itself to Islam. From faith schools, to sharia to halal meat, the religion is rarely out of the news for all the wrong reasons. For example it is one year to the day that two Muslims murdered Lee Rigby in the middle of the street in London. Islam is another seditious and dangerous religion that is at the center of some of the worlds worse crimes against humanity, miscarriages of justice and retardation of science and free inquiry. So if some idiot put up some posters that were offensive i would have to suggest the obvious response would be "so what...?". Popeonarope
  • Score: 3

6:50pm Thu 22 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

I agree with just about every word Popeonarope says.

As he says, why shouldn't ordinary, decent British people be offended by Islam, which in its worst and most fundamental form is a virulent and pernicious disease, a cancer in our midst. In the last few days an Islamic court in Somalia has sentenced a young married woman who's expecting a baby to death, simply for refusing to change her religion. Can anyone seriously believe such barbarism in the 21st century and not be offended? And thanks for reminding us that it was just a year ago today that two mad Muslim savages hacked off Lee Rigby's head.

Yes, many British Muslims are moderate and don't go along with the worst atrocities. However, they appear to be willing to do very little about it because it is up to them to root out the cancer in Islam, we can't do it by ourselves. Therefore, I agree that it is the barbaric aspects of Islam itself that is the fundamental problem, not as Popeonarope says, some idiot sticking up a few posters. Extremist movements will inevitably provoke an extreme reaction.
I agree with just about every word Popeonarope says. As he says, why shouldn't ordinary, decent British people be offended by Islam, which in its worst and most fundamental form is a virulent and pernicious disease, a cancer in our midst. In the last few days an Islamic court in Somalia has sentenced a young married woman who's expecting a baby to death, simply for refusing to change her religion. Can anyone seriously believe such barbarism in the 21st century and not be offended? And thanks for reminding us that it was just a year ago today that two mad Muslim savages hacked off Lee Rigby's head. Yes, many British Muslims are moderate and don't go along with the worst atrocities. However, they appear to be willing to do very little about it because it is up to them to root out the cancer in Islam, we can't do it by ourselves. Therefore, I agree that it is the barbaric aspects of Islam itself that is the fundamental problem, not as Popeonarope says, some idiot sticking up a few posters. Extremist movements will inevitably provoke an extreme reaction. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -4

10:41pm Thu 22 May 14

Enoch Powell says...

I probably agree that the posters were designed to be provocative.

However, Islam, like any other religion should be allowed to be subject to the same scrutiny as any other religion, especially where there is an adjoining legal system called Shariah Law.

I can only refer to the words of Khalid Mahmood Labour MP who said that you cannot cherry pick Shariah Law as it is all or nothing.

It is not racist to forensically look at Islam as some of its high profile converts are white such as Samantha Lethwaite, Richard Dart and Jordan Horner.
I probably agree that the posters were designed to be provocative. However, Islam, like any other religion should be allowed to be subject to the same scrutiny as any other religion, especially where there is an adjoining legal system called Shariah Law. I can only refer to the words of Khalid Mahmood Labour MP who said that you cannot cherry pick Shariah Law as it is all or nothing. It is not racist to forensically look at Islam as some of its high profile converts are white such as Samantha Lethwaite, Richard Dart and Jordan Horner. Enoch Powell
  • Score: -4

11:17pm Thu 22 May 14

Playa says...

Typical response from Roy. How about you lot stop reading what the Daily Mail and The Sun tell you and actually think for yourselves for a change.

Take some time, if you are sincere, to actually learn the truth about Islam:

http://www.knowmuham
mad.co.uk/

By the way Roy, that offer for a public debate still stands.
Typical response from Roy. How about you lot stop reading what the Daily Mail and The Sun tell you and actually think for yourselves for a change. Take some time, if you are sincere, to actually learn the truth about Islam: http://www.knowmuham mad.co.uk/ By the way Roy, that offer for a public debate still stands. Playa
  • Score: 6

11:45pm Thu 22 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

There is only ONE truth about fundamentalist Islam! It's backward, barbaric, feudal, medieval, is the cause of 99 per cent of the troubles in the world and has no place in the 21st century.

If Muslims don't like our country and our way of life, then there is a very simple solution. And No, I am not interested in any public debate.
There is only ONE truth about fundamentalist Islam! It's backward, barbaric, feudal, medieval, is the cause of 99 per cent of the troubles in the world and has no place in the 21st century. If Muslims don't like our country and our way of life, then there is a very simple solution. And No, I am not interested in any public debate. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -2

12:00am Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Sentenced to death for 'apostasy' because she wouldn't renounce her faith. Sentenced to 100 lashes for 'adultery' for marrying her Christian husband.
Take action: http://amn.st/1mATaw
s. Stand up for Meriam Yehya Ibrahim.

This is backward, barbaric Islam in action.
Sentenced to death for 'apostasy' because she wouldn't renounce her faith. Sentenced to 100 lashes for 'adultery' for marrying her Christian husband. Take action: http://amn.st/1mATaw s. Stand up for Meriam Yehya Ibrahim. This is backward, barbaric Islam in action. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -1

12:01am Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Sentenced to death for 'apostasy' because she wouldn't renounce her faith. Sentenced to 100 lashes for 'adultery' for marrying her Christian husband.
Take action: http://amn.st/1mATaw
s. Stand up for Meriam Yehya Ibrahim.

This is backward, barbaric Islam in action.
Sentenced to death for 'apostasy' because she wouldn't renounce her faith. Sentenced to 100 lashes for 'adultery' for marrying her Christian husband. Take action: http://amn.st/1mATaw s. Stand up for Meriam Yehya Ibrahim. This is backward, barbaric Islam in action. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -4

12:52am Fri 23 May 14

IkkieH says...

99% of the troubles in the world? Only the ones that are publicised by the media here. Roy, were you also one of the few that did a madman rain dance when you found out that chicken in Pizza Express was halal?

Open your eyes and don't tar us all with the same brush. It's obvious someone was trying to get a reaction out of the Muslim community with those actions. Funnily, I haven't heard of crazy Islamic Ray Gun wielding bearded nutters running along the streets threatening random people.

The irony of some of the responses here is that you are talking about a minority of individuals who make the headlines that you see about how extremism has filtered its way into this country. Yet some responses here are quite extreme themselves. Article is about offensive posters and suddenly it has moved onto Barbaric Muslims and "if they don't like it" style comments.

Much in the way this conversation has headed, do you think it would be right for me to picture you as a Jimmy Saville lookalike kiddy fiddler? I didn't think so.

I wish for this issue to be resolved in the quietest possible way, ensuring issues like this do not crop up in the future. We're a lovely bunch really.
99% of the troubles in the world? Only the ones that are publicised by the media here. Roy, were you also one of the few that did a madman rain dance when you found out that chicken in Pizza Express was halal? Open your eyes and don't tar us all with the same brush. It's obvious someone was trying to get a reaction out of the Muslim community with those actions. Funnily, I haven't heard of crazy Islamic Ray Gun wielding bearded nutters running along the streets threatening random people. The irony of some of the responses here is that you are talking about a minority of individuals who make the headlines that you see about how extremism has filtered its way into this country. Yet some responses here are quite extreme themselves. Article is about offensive posters and suddenly it has moved onto Barbaric Muslims and "if they don't like it" style comments. Much in the way this conversation has headed, do you think it would be right for me to picture you as a Jimmy Saville lookalike kiddy fiddler? I didn't think so. I wish for this issue to be resolved in the quietest possible way, ensuring issues like this do not crop up in the future. We're a lovely bunch really. IkkieH
  • Score: 7

2:53am Fri 23 May 14

Traveller Tom McD says...

It always amuses me when the belligerant old **** Roy Stockdill puts in an unwelcome appearance. Roy, I understand you are bored but change the record. As a has been bit part journalist you probably crave attention and this is the best action you get. Give the man a public debate instead of
sniping with your rubbish. You are an unpleasant old man and if anyone should leave our shores it should be you. Britain will be a
better place.
P.S I would love to see how you traced back
your roots to when one of your ancestors was raped by a Viking, do enlighten us....
It always amuses me when the belligerant old **** Roy Stockdill puts in an unwelcome appearance. Roy, I understand you are bored but change the record. As a has been bit part journalist you probably crave attention and this is the best action you get. Give the man a public debate instead of sniping with your rubbish. You are an unpleasant old man and if anyone should leave our shores it should be you. Britain will be a better place. P.S I would love to see how you traced back your roots to when one of your ancestors was raped by a Viking, do enlighten us.... Traveller Tom McD
  • Score: 6

7:34am Fri 23 May 14

garston tony says...

Oh Roy, no one is saying you cant be offended by what you see as Muslims trying to force their way of life on you but it is ironic that you hark back to Vikings and what have you as i'm pretty sure the locals in this country at that time would rather not have had their way of life affected by those Nordic pillagers, murderers etc. But according to you raping and plundering Vikings were okay, Muslims trying to lead their life peacefully are not. Twisted or what.
Oh Roy, no one is saying you cant be offended by what you see as Muslims trying to force their way of life on you but it is ironic that you hark back to Vikings and what have you as i'm pretty sure the locals in this country at that time would rather not have had their way of life affected by those Nordic pillagers, murderers etc. But according to you raping and plundering Vikings were okay, Muslims trying to lead their life peacefully are not. Twisted or what. garston tony
  • Score: 8

7:35am Fri 23 May 14

garston tony says...

As D_Penn points out this wasnt something where offence was taken over something that was a way of life in this country prior to this community arriving it was someone deliberately setting out to be offensive to them and there is no way of defending that.

Pope your post is confused, you admit that most Muslims are moderate yet then point out the extreme side to justify calling the whole religion seditious and dangerous. Your own words defeat you, its like saying the majority of football supporters are well behaved people but because a small number like fighting football itself is dangerous! Nonsense

Playa, you cant ask Roy to stop reading the Daily Mail. He IS the daily mail in living form!
As D_Penn points out this wasnt something where offence was taken over something that was a way of life in this country prior to this community arriving it was someone deliberately setting out to be offensive to them and there is no way of defending that. Pope your post is confused, you admit that most Muslims are moderate yet then point out the extreme side to justify calling the whole religion seditious and dangerous. Your own words defeat you, its like saying the majority of football supporters are well behaved people but because a small number like fighting football itself is dangerous! Nonsense Playa, you cant ask Roy to stop reading the Daily Mail. He IS the daily mail in living form! garston tony
  • Score: 7

8:18am Fri 23 May 14

WatfordBandB says...

Traveller Tom McD wrote:
It always amuses me when the belligerant old **** Roy Stockdill puts in an unwelcome appearance. Roy, I understand you are bored but change the record. As a has been bit part journalist you probably crave attention and this is the best action you get. Give the man a public debate instead of
sniping with your rubbish. You are an unpleasant old man and if anyone should leave our shores it should be you. Britain will be a
better place.
P.S I would love to see how you traced back
your roots to when one of your ancestors was raped by a Viking, do enlighten us....
Here here!! Well said Tom! You have described Roy Cockdilll perfectly, he is a has been old timer knocking on Heavens door...
[quote][p][bold]Traveller Tom McD[/bold] wrote: It always amuses me when the belligerant old **** Roy Stockdill puts in an unwelcome appearance. Roy, I understand you are bored but change the record. As a has been bit part journalist you probably crave attention and this is the best action you get. Give the man a public debate instead of sniping with your rubbish. You are an unpleasant old man and if anyone should leave our shores it should be you. Britain will be a better place. P.S I would love to see how you traced back your roots to when one of your ancestors was raped by a Viking, do enlighten us....[/p][/quote]Here here!! Well said Tom! You have described Roy Cockdilll perfectly, he is a has been old timer knocking on Heavens door... WatfordBandB
  • Score: 4

9:09am Fri 23 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

The people who noticed the work of a moron sticking posters up did report it. It is very ironic to direct freedom of expression to the right to offend a faith of two billion or so people world wide a large section of humanity. It is also ironic for a sad old man who blows the viking trumpet to label others as barbarians when it was his own proud ancestors greatest asset. So if anything not just brittain the whole world would be better of without the likes of "roy" and anjam chaudry, extremism is condemned in all shapes and forms. The actions of a few cannot be genralised on all.

As for the link etc its a isolated case in a country governed by there own laws not applicable to muslims in the west, as such stories happen far more on the other side. I find it really funny to label Islam as barbaric or backwards, any objective mind can discover the greatest contributions by Islam to science development, maths and medicine, almost every field of life by Islamic culture when europe was in the dark ages, so quite a pathetic rant really. As for the paedophile rant, by popeondope ;) read the definition of the term then see where it applies. Stop reading hate material from websites with no knowledge of the actual sources. The prophets (pbuh) marriage was legal by all standards be it social or religious with not a single objection raised at the time nor centuries later only until now, Suprisingly however marriages in europe including england just over a hundred years ago would occur with young teenage girls, besides you dont see us labeling people when we see young girls in street corners offering oral stimulation for a pack of cigs or poor choir boys subject to frustrated old priests, all are individual cases and to label a complete people on the actions of few is Absurd.

On the mr rushdie rant, have you read his book, have you read what he sees english people as, or what he considers the "white woman" as he puts it good for only one thing if you really researched his atrocious book and then addressed him as Sir, id actually laugh.

Islam gave women rights when they had none when medievel europe was burning them as witches and doing modesty tests and acusing them of the original sin and nowadays sex objects, it is no wonder tens of thousands of women in the west from all academic and professional way of lives are adapting Islam as a way of life. Bottom line is everyone has the right to live there life within the boundaries of the law of the land as they wish and whoever be it mr chaoudry or mr griffin tries to impose their way of life onto another is a biggot and a extremeist. And no person has the right to offend another in the guise of freedom, its not freedom its opression, British muslims
are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.
The people who noticed the work of a moron sticking posters up did report it. It is very ironic to direct freedom of expression to the right to offend a faith of two billion or so people world wide a large section of humanity. It is also ironic for a sad old man who blows the viking trumpet to label others as barbarians when it was his own proud ancestors greatest asset. So if anything not just brittain the whole world would be better of without the likes of "roy" and anjam chaudry, extremism is condemned in all shapes and forms. The actions of a few cannot be genralised on all. As for the link etc its a isolated case in a country governed by there own laws not applicable to muslims in the west, as such stories happen far more on the other side. I find it really funny to label Islam as barbaric or backwards, any objective mind can discover the greatest contributions by Islam to science development, maths and medicine, almost every field of life by Islamic culture when europe was in the dark ages, so quite a pathetic rant really. As for the paedophile rant, by popeondope ;) read the definition of the term then see where it applies. Stop reading hate material from websites with no knowledge of the actual sources. The prophets (pbuh) marriage was legal by all standards be it social or religious with not a single objection raised at the time nor centuries later only until now, Suprisingly however marriages in europe including england just over a hundred years ago would occur with young teenage girls, besides you dont see us labeling people when we see young girls in street corners offering oral stimulation for a pack of cigs or poor choir boys subject to frustrated old priests, all are individual cases and to label a complete people on the actions of few is Absurd. On the mr rushdie rant, have you read his book, have you read what he sees english people as, or what he considers the "white woman" as he puts it good for only one thing if you really researched his atrocious book and then addressed him as Sir, id actually laugh. Islam gave women rights when they had none when medievel europe was burning them as witches and doing modesty tests and acusing them of the original sin and nowadays sex objects, it is no wonder tens of thousands of women in the west from all academic and professional way of lives are adapting Islam as a way of life. Bottom line is everyone has the right to live there life within the boundaries of the law of the land as they wish and whoever be it mr chaoudry or mr griffin tries to impose their way of life onto another is a biggot and a extremeist. And no person has the right to offend another in the guise of freedom, its not freedom its opression, British muslims are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british. johnny_english1
  • Score: 6

10:31am Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

>British muslims
are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.<

Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, hero of Waterloo and twice prime minister, when somebody sneered that he was Irish, supposedly remarked: "Just because you're born in a stable it doesn't make you a horse."

As to ancestry, I have traced my direct male line in Yorkshire back to 1718 and to my great great great grandfather, with a potential but as yet unproven link back to the 1670s, all from documented sources. I have a line on a female side that takes me back to a marriage in Yorkshire in 1580 in the time of Elizabeth I and links me (very distantly) to Sir Ernest Shackleton, the great Antarctic explorer. However, my surname is a variant of STOCKDALE, which derives from two Norse elements, i.e. "stoc", a tree stump, and "dael", a valley, hence it means a clearing where the trees had been cut down, no doubt to make a settlement. The name is first recorded in 1332 but my researches derive the surname from Norse origins. I am a professional genealogist and have been researching for over 40 years, so I know what I am talking about - and NO, I do not and cannot and will not accept that foreigners who have been in this country about five minutes, and probably don't even know who their grandfather was, are as British as I am.

Interestingly, I haven't seen any condemnation by Watford Muslims of the abduction of 200-plus schoolgirls in Nigeria by Muslim fanatics or of the death sentence on a young married woman in Sudan for refusing to change her religion from Christian to Islam. Did Watford Muslims express regrets over the barbaric murder of Lee Rigby, I confess I don't remember. But I will say it again without apology - I am offended by these acts of barbarism carried out in the name of Islam and I would welcome a statement from moderate Muslins condemning them.

As to Islamic contributions to science etc,, that last happened about 1500 years ago. Virtually everything since then that has moved the world on has come out of Europe. You have only to look at virtually the whole of the Middle East and the Islamic parts of Africa, plus Asia, and you see political chaos everywhere and oppressive regimes. Ask yourselves whether the root cause is Islam or perhaps a perversion of Islam that has been adopted by the more fanatical fundamentalists.
>British muslims are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.< Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, hero of Waterloo and twice prime minister, when somebody sneered that he was Irish, supposedly remarked: "Just because you're born in a stable it doesn't make you a horse." As to ancestry, I have traced my direct male line in Yorkshire back to 1718 and to my great great great grandfather, with a potential but as yet unproven link back to the 1670s, all from documented sources. I have a line on a female side that takes me back to a marriage in Yorkshire in 1580 in the time of Elizabeth I and links me (very distantly) to Sir Ernest Shackleton, the great Antarctic explorer. However, my surname is a variant of STOCKDALE, which derives from two Norse elements, i.e. "stoc", a tree stump, and "dael", a valley, hence it means a clearing where the trees had been cut down, no doubt to make a settlement. The name is first recorded in 1332 but my researches derive the surname from Norse origins. I am a professional genealogist and have been researching for over 40 years, so I know what I am talking about - and NO, I do not and cannot and will not accept that foreigners who have been in this country about five minutes, and probably don't even know who their grandfather was, are as British as I am. Interestingly, I haven't seen any condemnation by Watford Muslims of the abduction of 200-plus schoolgirls in Nigeria by Muslim fanatics or of the death sentence on a young married woman in Sudan for refusing to change her religion from Christian to Islam. Did Watford Muslims express regrets over the barbaric murder of Lee Rigby, I confess I don't remember. But I will say it again without apology - I am offended by these acts of barbarism carried out in the name of Islam and I would welcome a statement from moderate Muslins condemning them. As to Islamic contributions to science etc,, that last happened about 1500 years ago. Virtually everything since then that has moved the world on has come out of Europe. You have only to look at virtually the whole of the Middle East and the Islamic parts of Africa, plus Asia, and you see political chaos everywhere and oppressive regimes. Ask yourselves whether the root cause is Islam or perhaps a perversion of Islam that has been adopted by the more fanatical fundamentalists. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -1

11:34am Fri 23 May 14

Traveller Tom McD says...

Roy, crawl back under that rock until you can provide tangible evidence of your blood line, 'potential' is not good enough, a spin on your surname is not good enough, being linked distantly to some marriage in 1580 is not good enough so using your surname as instruction. Take your tree stump i.e stoc and disappear in a valley i.e dael....dael could also link you to indians and their culinary dish Daal...so you are potentially Indian therefore have Indian or
Muslim bloodlines. Can you prove your ancestor in the 12th century wasn't black...which would explain your orange tinge?
Roy, crawl back under that rock until you can provide tangible evidence of your blood line, 'potential' is not good enough, a spin on your surname is not good enough, being linked distantly to some marriage in 1580 is not good enough so using your surname as instruction. Take your tree stump i.e stoc and disappear in a valley i.e dael....dael could also link you to indians and their culinary dish Daal...so you are potentially Indian therefore have Indian or Muslim bloodlines. Can you prove your ancestor in the 12th century wasn't black...which would explain your orange tinge? Traveller Tom McD
  • Score: 1

11:50am Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Unlike most posters here, I am virtually the only one who has the courage constantly to put his head above the barricade and post in my own name. Most of the others, including you old boy, are COWARDS and crackpot Loony Lefties from the School of Armchair Marxism.

I do not have to justify my ancestry to you or anyone else because I am an expert in genealogy and can show documentary evidence of my descent from at least 1580 - not, of course, that I would have anyone like you in my house to see it.

Your views are of about as much importance to me as are 17th century Peruvian wood carvings! You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a monkeys what you or anyone else thinks of me. I will stick to my views and not be afraid to post them. Now I suggest you crawl back into your gypsy caravan, give your stockpot a stir and hit the high road to the Appleby Horse Fair or wherever it is you're headed for at the moment.
Unlike most posters here, I am virtually the only one who has the courage constantly to put his head above the barricade and post in my own name. Most of the others, including you old boy, are COWARDS and crackpot Loony Lefties from the School of Armchair Marxism. I do not have to justify my ancestry to you or anyone else because I am an expert in genealogy and can show documentary evidence of my descent from at least 1580 - not, of course, that I would have anyone like you in my house to see it. Your views are of about as much importance to me as are 17th century Peruvian wood carvings! You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a monkeys what you or anyone else thinks of me. I will stick to my views and not be afraid to post them. Now I suggest you crawl back into your gypsy caravan, give your stockpot a stir and hit the high road to the Appleby Horse Fair or wherever it is you're headed for at the moment. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -1

12:21pm Fri 23 May 14

IkkieH says...

So Roy, with that last post, you say you have no regrets airing your opinions, even if they are racist? That last bit seemed to be an incredibly ignorant and arrogant post.

You talk about being British. Or is it English you meant? Anyone born here would be classed as British. Passports prove that.

Considering your nose loves the smell of your own manure so much, I'm surprised you wonder if any of the Muslim community around Watford condemn the actions of extremity.

You've already had Muslims on here, of which I am one, condemning extremist actions but you don't seem to see that. You are quite a character. You've actively cherry picked publicised negativity towards Islam and are borderline trolling now.

How's about sticking to the subject and not bellowing about your ancestry, it doesn't make you any more British than me I'm afraid.
So Roy, with that last post, you say you have no regrets airing your opinions, even if they are racist? That last bit seemed to be an incredibly ignorant and arrogant post. You talk about being British. Or is it English you meant? Anyone born here would be classed as British. Passports prove that. Considering your nose loves the smell of your own manure so much, I'm surprised you wonder if any of the Muslim community around Watford condemn the actions of extremity. You've already had Muslims on here, of which I am one, condemning extremist actions but you don't seem to see that. You are quite a character. You've actively cherry picked publicised negativity towards Islam and are borderline trolling now. How's about sticking to the subject and not bellowing about your ancestry, it doesn't make you any more British than me I'm afraid. IkkieH
  • Score: 2

12:27pm Fri 23 May 14

WatfordBandB says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Unlike most posters here, I am virtually the only one who has the courage constantly to put his head above the barricade and post in my own name. Most of the others, including you old boy, are COWARDS and crackpot Loony Lefties from the School of Armchair Marxism.

I do not have to justify my ancestry to you or anyone else because I am an expert in genealogy and can show documentary evidence of my descent from at least 1580 - not, of course, that I would have anyone like you in my house to see it.

Your views are of about as much importance to me as are 17th century Peruvian wood carvings! You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a monkeys what you or anyone else thinks of me. I will stick to my views and not be afraid to post them. Now I suggest you crawl back into your gypsy caravan, give your stockpot a stir and hit the high road to the Appleby Horse Fair or wherever it is you're headed for at the moment.
Brilliant, top Roy input. Yes Roy, it takes great courage to sit on a PC and write risky comments, you are a true Knight of the Realm!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: Unlike most posters here, I am virtually the only one who has the courage constantly to put his head above the barricade and post in my own name. Most of the others, including you old boy, are COWARDS and crackpot Loony Lefties from the School of Armchair Marxism. I do not have to justify my ancestry to you or anyone else because I am an expert in genealogy and can show documentary evidence of my descent from at least 1580 - not, of course, that I would have anyone like you in my house to see it. Your views are of about as much importance to me as are 17th century Peruvian wood carvings! You don't get it do you? I couldn't give a monkeys what you or anyone else thinks of me. I will stick to my views and not be afraid to post them. Now I suggest you crawl back into your gypsy caravan, give your stockpot a stir and hit the high road to the Appleby Horse Fair or wherever it is you're headed for at the moment.[/p][/quote]Brilliant, top Roy input. Yes Roy, it takes great courage to sit on a PC and write risky comments, you are a true Knight of the Realm!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! WatfordBandB
  • Score: -1

12:51pm Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

>You talk about being British. Or is it English you meant? Anyone born here would be classed as British. Passports prove that.<

A passport proves nothing. My mother was born in Dublin but she never for a moment considered herself to be Irish because both her parents were from Bradford going back several generations and her father, my grandfather, happened to be in Dublin playing in a theatre orchestra at the time of her birth, so her parents were living there. Although she didn't actually come to England until she was about 14, she never considered herself to be anything other than Yorkshire. Her birth in Ireland was just an accident.

Likewise, someone born in Britain but of, say, Pakistani parents, may have a piece of paper that says they are British but their true origins and ethnicity are Asian.

Some very famous Britons were born abroad - Florence Nightingale in Italy, Ted Dexter also was born in Italy, Colin Cowdrey in India, Cliff Richard in India, also Spike Milligan, born in India but of dual British/Irish nationality. In every case they were considered British by parentage.

However, you are right in one sense in that I consider myself English, NOT British, because I do not wish to be lumped in with the Scots, Welsh and Irish! However, lunatic political correctness decrees that we English are not allowed to call ourselves as such, even though we still form by far the largest percentage of the population. In actual fact, if I had to state a nationality I would prefer to put "Yorkshire" because that is where the majority of my ancestors came from for as far back as I can trace, with others coming in from the West Country counties of Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Somerset, Cheshire and Northumberland, but they all ended up in Bradford which is the melting pot of my ancestry. The only ancestor I have so far found who could be called remotely foreign is a Scottish great-great-grandmot
her who was born in Edinburgh but who also ended up in Yorkshire, the largest and greatest county in Britain.

In my book, people of foreign ancestry have to become British by integration, assimilation of the British way of life and adoption of our ways, not by clinging to their original cultures.
>You talk about being British. Or is it English you meant? Anyone born here would be classed as British. Passports prove that.< A passport proves nothing. My mother was born in Dublin but she never for a moment considered herself to be Irish because both her parents were from Bradford going back several generations and her father, my grandfather, happened to be in Dublin playing in a theatre orchestra at the time of her birth, so her parents were living there. Although she didn't actually come to England until she was about 14, she never considered herself to be anything other than Yorkshire. Her birth in Ireland was just an accident. Likewise, someone born in Britain but of, say, Pakistani parents, may have a piece of paper that says they are British but their true origins and ethnicity are Asian. Some very famous Britons were born abroad - Florence Nightingale in Italy, Ted Dexter also was born in Italy, Colin Cowdrey in India, Cliff Richard in India, also Spike Milligan, born in India but of dual British/Irish nationality. In every case they were considered British by parentage. However, you are right in one sense in that I consider myself English, NOT British, because I do not wish to be lumped in with the Scots, Welsh and Irish! However, lunatic political correctness decrees that we English are not allowed to call ourselves as such, even though we still form by far the largest percentage of the population. In actual fact, if I had to state a nationality I would prefer to put "Yorkshire" because that is where the majority of my ancestors came from for as far back as I can trace, with others coming in from the West Country counties of Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Somerset, Cheshire and Northumberland, but they all ended up in Bradford which is the melting pot of my ancestry. The only ancestor I have so far found who could be called remotely foreign is a Scottish great-great-grandmot her who was born in Edinburgh but who also ended up in Yorkshire, the largest and greatest county in Britain. In my book, people of foreign ancestry have to become British by integration, assimilation of the British way of life and adoption of our ways, not by clinging to their original cultures. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -1

12:56pm Fri 23 May 14

WatfordBandB says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
&gt;You talk about being British. Or is it English you meant? Anyone born here would be classed as British. Passports prove that.&lt;

A passport proves nothing. My mother was born in Dublin but she never for a moment considered herself to be Irish because both her parents were from Bradford going back several generations and her father, my grandfather, happened to be in Dublin playing in a theatre orchestra at the time of her birth, so her parents were living there. Although she didn't actually come to England until she was about 14, she never considered herself to be anything other than Yorkshire. Her birth in Ireland was just an accident.

Likewise, someone born in Britain but of, say, Pakistani parents, may have a piece of paper that says they are British but their true origins and ethnicity are Asian.

Some very famous Britons were born abroad - Florence Nightingale in Italy, Ted Dexter also was born in Italy, Colin Cowdrey in India, Cliff Richard in India, also Spike Milligan, born in India but of dual British/Irish nationality. In every case they were considered British by parentage.

However, you are right in one sense in that I consider myself English, NOT British, because I do not wish to be lumped in with the Scots, Welsh and Irish! However, lunatic political correctness decrees that we English are not allowed to call ourselves as such, even though we still form by far the largest percentage of the population. In actual fact, if I had to state a nationality I would prefer to put &quot;Yorkshire" because that is where the majority of my ancestors came from for as far back as I can trace, with others coming in from the West Country counties of Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Somerset, Cheshire and Northumberland, but they all ended up in Bradford which is the melting pot of my ancestry. The only ancestor I have so far found who could be called remotely foreign is a Scottish great-great-grandmot

her who was born in Edinburgh but who also ended up in Yorkshire, the largest and greatest county in Britain.

In my book, people of foreign ancestry have to become British by integration, assimilation of the British way of life and adoption of our ways, not by clinging to their original cultures.
Well I was feeling sleeply before, now I am ready for a full 24 hours Kip, thanks for boring us all to death with your very very uninteresting rubbish
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: >You talk about being British. Or is it English you meant? Anyone born here would be classed as British. Passports prove that.< A passport proves nothing. My mother was born in Dublin but she never for a moment considered herself to be Irish because both her parents were from Bradford going back several generations and her father, my grandfather, happened to be in Dublin playing in a theatre orchestra at the time of her birth, so her parents were living there. Although she didn't actually come to England until she was about 14, she never considered herself to be anything other than Yorkshire. Her birth in Ireland was just an accident. Likewise, someone born in Britain but of, say, Pakistani parents, may have a piece of paper that says they are British but their true origins and ethnicity are Asian. Some very famous Britons were born abroad - Florence Nightingale in Italy, Ted Dexter also was born in Italy, Colin Cowdrey in India, Cliff Richard in India, also Spike Milligan, born in India but of dual British/Irish nationality. In every case they were considered British by parentage. However, you are right in one sense in that I consider myself English, NOT British, because I do not wish to be lumped in with the Scots, Welsh and Irish! However, lunatic political correctness decrees that we English are not allowed to call ourselves as such, even though we still form by far the largest percentage of the population. In actual fact, if I had to state a nationality I would prefer to put "Yorkshire" because that is where the majority of my ancestors came from for as far back as I can trace, with others coming in from the West Country counties of Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Somerset, Cheshire and Northumberland, but they all ended up in Bradford which is the melting pot of my ancestry. The only ancestor I have so far found who could be called remotely foreign is a Scottish great-great-grandmot her who was born in Edinburgh but who also ended up in Yorkshire, the largest and greatest county in Britain. In my book, people of foreign ancestry have to become British by integration, assimilation of the British way of life and adoption of our ways, not by clinging to their original cultures.[/p][/quote]Well I was feeling sleeply before, now I am ready for a full 24 hours Kip, thanks for boring us all to death with your very very uninteresting rubbish WatfordBandB
  • Score: 0

12:59pm Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Thank you Traveller Tom, you have given me cause to report your offensive comments to the Administrator.

As it happens my wife and I celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary last October, we have two homes and I commute regularly between them. Not that it's any business of yours, but my wife has to have kidney dialysis and therefore has to live in one place most of the time. I am not remotely lonely because I have two sons and a great many friends and colleagues in the genealogical world. I go into London quite often on business for meetings, go to conferences and lecture around the country. And for the record, I have never been to Thailand or the Philippines or, indeed, anywhere in Asia because I doubt I could stand the appalling extremes of wealth and poverty in those countries, not to mention the lack of hygiene.

BTW, I know many people who do agree with my views but they are afraid to voice them publicly for fear of being terrorised by Lefty Loonies and politically correct neo-fascist communists!
Thank you Traveller Tom, you have given me cause to report your offensive comments to the Administrator. As it happens my wife and I celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary last October, we have two homes and I commute regularly between them. Not that it's any business of yours, but my wife has to have kidney dialysis and therefore has to live in one place most of the time. I am not remotely lonely because I have two sons and a great many friends and colleagues in the genealogical world. I go into London quite often on business for meetings, go to conferences and lecture around the country. And for the record, I have never been to Thailand or the Philippines or, indeed, anywhere in Asia because I doubt I could stand the appalling extremes of wealth and poverty in those countries, not to mention the lack of hygiene. BTW, I know many people who do agree with my views but they are afraid to voice them publicly for fear of being terrorised by Lefty Loonies and politically correct neo-fascist communists! Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 1

1:02pm Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

>Well I was feeling sleeply before, now I am ready for a full 24 hours Kip, thanks for boring us all to death with your very very uninteresting rubbish<

It is of not the slightest consequence to me that you find my comments uninteresting. Probably you haven't had the education or knowledge of history that I possess to understand or appreciate them.
>Well I was feeling sleeply before, now I am ready for a full 24 hours Kip, thanks for boring us all to death with your very very uninteresting rubbish< It is of not the slightest consequence to me that you find my comments uninteresting. Probably you haven't had the education or knowledge of history that I possess to understand or appreciate them. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

2:05pm Fri 23 May 14

WatfordBandB says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
&gt;Well I was feeling sleeply before, now I am ready for a full 24 hours Kip, thanks for boring us all to death with your very very uninteresting rubbish&lt;

It is of not the slightest consequence to me that you find my comments uninteresting. Probably you haven't had the education or knowledge of history that I possess to understand or appreciate them.
Hey, I am just delighted that some one on here has offended you x
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: >Well I was feeling sleeply before, now I am ready for a full 24 hours Kip, thanks for boring us all to death with your very very uninteresting rubbish< It is of not the slightest consequence to me that you find my comments uninteresting. Probably you haven't had the education or knowledge of history that I possess to understand or appreciate them.[/p][/quote]Hey, I am just delighted that some one on here has offended you x WatfordBandB
  • Score: 0

6:53pm Fri 23 May 14

IkkieH says...

An answer if ever there was one for you Roy:

http://www.watfordob
server.co.uk/news/11
233829.Muslim_busine
ss_owner_condemns_pr
ovocative_posters_de
picting_Prophet_Muha
mmad/#commentsList
An answer if ever there was one for you Roy: http://www.watfordob server.co.uk/news/11 233829.Muslim_busine ss_owner_condemns_pr ovocative_posters_de picting_Prophet_Muha mmad/#commentsList IkkieH
  • Score: 0

7:11pm Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

I see Ukip have done extremely well in Rotherham in the local elections, taking 7 seats from Labour and 3 from the Tories and becoming the official opposition. This is being linked by commentators to the former deputy leader of the council, a Labour Muslim, allegedly being involved in the cover-up scandal of a gang of Asians grooming young girls for sex.

Interesting.
I see Ukip have done extremely well in Rotherham in the local elections, taking 7 seats from Labour and 3 from the Tories and becoming the official opposition. This is being linked by commentators to the former deputy leader of the council, a Labour Muslim, allegedly being involved in the cover-up scandal of a gang of Asians grooming young girls for sex. Interesting. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

7:44pm Fri 23 May 14

Traveller Tom McD says...

People, you saw me take down Roy Stockdill, the guy who doesnt care what people think of him!
Roy, it gives me great pleasure that I offended you enough for you to report my comments and get them removed. No matter what you say or do, there is no coming back from that one, haha. Thats all I wanted to do.
On another note, that woman you claim is your wife spent 50 years married to you? Either she is insane, unpleasant just like you or has the patience of a saint, im guessing a bit of all 3. Report this too, I already made you my B**ch once. Haha
People, you saw me take down Roy Stockdill, the guy who doesnt care what people think of him! Roy, it gives me great pleasure that I offended you enough for you to report my comments and get them removed. No matter what you say or do, there is no coming back from that one, haha. Thats all I wanted to do. On another note, that woman you claim is your wife spent 50 years married to you? Either she is insane, unpleasant just like you or has the patience of a saint, im guessing a bit of all 3. Report this too, I already made you my B**ch once. Haha Traveller Tom McD
  • Score: 0

8:09pm Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

I couldn't be bothered reporting you again, Traveller Tom, since you are just a pathetic, small-minded cretin.

I can always tell when the Loony Lefties know they are losing a debate because they lose the plot as well and resort to common abuse, having no arguments left. They're always the same, nazis and fascists of the Left.

I hope a wheel doesn't fall off your wagon when you're on the road, otherwise you'll be spending the night under a hedge.
I couldn't be bothered reporting you again, Traveller Tom, since you are just a pathetic, small-minded cretin. I can always tell when the Loony Lefties know they are losing a debate because they lose the plot as well and resort to common abuse, having no arguments left. They're always the same, nazis and fascists of the Left. I hope a wheel doesn't fall off your wagon when you're on the road, otherwise you'll be spending the night under a hedge. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

8:26pm Fri 23 May 14

Popeonarope says...

garston tony wrote:
As D_Penn points out this wasnt something where offence was taken over something that was a way of life in this country prior to this community arriving it was someone deliberately setting out to be offensive to them and there is no way of defending that.

Pope your post is confused, you admit that most Muslims are moderate yet then point out the extreme side to justify calling the whole religion seditious and dangerous. Your own words defeat you, its like saying the majority of football supporters are well behaved people but because a small number like fighting football itself is dangerous! Nonsense

Playa, you cant ask Roy to stop reading the Daily Mail. He IS the daily mail in living form!
Once again you see only what you want to see. Try reading it again as i wrote: "The vast majority of Muslims in the UK are moderates".
The fundamentalist elements of this religion in most counties in the Middle East, North Africa and Pakistan are not moderates. The infighting between the various groups have bought war and horror with uncountable deaths, all for the same reasons as it does with your own christian religion... a different interpretation of a book written in ages past, supposedly being the infallible words of god. Of course it is not that simple but the fact that some groups are willing to bomb, massacre and gas entire subgroups of fellow human beings due to a difference in opinion of the Koran proves beyond doubt to me that all religion is a horror that needs to be curtailed at every opportunity.

I have a vested interest in the UK. I was born here, I live here as do my friends and family for as far back as records go. I have no problem with anyone living here and adopting my culture but when i see religious groups wanting to build more places of worship, teach religion dogma in state schools, make ritual slaughter of animals normal and insisting their religious law is allowed to run within British law i have to say enough is enough. I see this as sedition, by a surreptitious undermining of my cultural heritage and laws, some groups want to impose a religion and way of life alien to my own morals, ethics and experience that which i consider makes this country what it is. By taking advantage of the UKs democracy, freedom of speech and financial stability they are promoting a way of life that they cannot enjoy in the countries where there religion is prevalent.
[quote][p][bold]garston tony[/bold] wrote: As D_Penn points out this wasnt something where offence was taken over something that was a way of life in this country prior to this community arriving it was someone deliberately setting out to be offensive to them and there is no way of defending that. Pope your post is confused, you admit that most Muslims are moderate yet then point out the extreme side to justify calling the whole religion seditious and dangerous. Your own words defeat you, its like saying the majority of football supporters are well behaved people but because a small number like fighting football itself is dangerous! Nonsense Playa, you cant ask Roy to stop reading the Daily Mail. He IS the daily mail in living form![/p][/quote]Once again you see only what you want to see. Try reading it again as i wrote: "The vast majority of Muslims in the UK are moderates". The fundamentalist elements of this religion in most counties in the Middle East, North Africa and Pakistan are not moderates. The infighting between the various groups have bought war and horror with uncountable deaths, all for the same reasons as it does with your own christian religion... a different interpretation of a book written in ages past, supposedly being the infallible words of god. Of course it is not that simple but the fact that some groups are willing to bomb, massacre and gas entire subgroups of fellow human beings due to a difference in opinion of the Koran proves beyond doubt to me that all religion is a horror that needs to be curtailed at every opportunity. I have a vested interest in the UK. I was born here, I live here as do my friends and family for as far back as records go. I have no problem with anyone living here and adopting my culture but when i see religious groups wanting to build more places of worship, teach religion dogma in state schools, make ritual slaughter of animals normal and insisting their religious law is allowed to run within British law i have to say enough is enough. I see this as sedition, by a surreptitious undermining of my cultural heritage and laws, some groups want to impose a religion and way of life alien to my own morals, ethics and experience that which i consider makes this country what it is. By taking advantage of the UKs democracy, freedom of speech and financial stability they are promoting a way of life that they cannot enjoy in the countries where there religion is prevalent. Popeonarope
  • Score: 2

9:52pm Fri 23 May 14

Popeonarope says...

johnny_english1 wrote:
The people who noticed the work of a moron sticking posters up did report it. It is very ironic to direct freedom of expression to the right to offend a faith of two billion or so people world wide a large section of humanity. It is also ironic for a sad old man who blows the viking trumpet to label others as barbarians when it was his own proud ancestors greatest asset. So if anything not just brittain the whole world would be better of without the likes of &quot;roy" and anjam chaudry, extremism is condemned in all shapes and forms. The actions of a few cannot be genralised on all.

As for the link etc its a isolated case in a country governed by there own laws not applicable to muslims in the west, as such stories happen far more on the other side. I find it really funny to label Islam as barbaric or backwards, any objective mind can discover the greatest contributions by Islam to science development, maths and medicine, almost every field of life by Islamic culture when europe was in the dark ages, so quite a pathetic rant really. As for the paedophile rant, by popeondope ;) read the definition of the term then see where it applies. Stop reading hate material from websites with no knowledge of the actual sources. The prophets (pbuh) marriage was legal by all standards be it social or religious with not a single objection raised at the time nor centuries later only until now, Suprisingly however marriages in europe including england just over a hundred years ago would occur with young teenage girls, besides you dont see us labeling people when we see young girls in street corners offering oral stimulation for a pack of cigs or poor choir boys subject to frustrated old priests, all are individual cases and to label a complete people on the actions of few is Absurd.

On the mr rushdie rant, have you read his book, have you read what he sees english people as, or what he considers the "white woman" as he puts it good for only one thing if you really researched his atrocious book and then addressed him as Sir, id actually laugh.

Islam gave women rights when they had none when medievel europe was burning them as witches and doing modesty tests and acusing them of the original sin and nowadays sex objects, it is no wonder tens of thousands of women in the west from all academic and professional way of lives are adapting Islam as a way of life. Bottom line is everyone has the right to live there life within the boundaries of the law of the land as they wish and whoever be it mr chaoudry or mr griffin tries to impose their way of life onto another is a biggot and a extremeist. And no person has the right to offend another in the guise of freedom, its not freedom its opression, British muslims
are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.
"The actions of a few cannot be generalized on all." (sic)
It can when that extremism derives from the same religious teachings supported by the majority of the faith who are incapable or unwilling to curtail behavior that is offensive, dangerous or knowingly divisive.

Baghdad was the center of science for a long time and was dictated by culture, political will and economic wealth. Incredible discoveries were documented and translated from captured texts and i am in awe of the scientists that made them, but where are they now? What has happened to this vaunted education in Pakistan? In Iraq? In Iran? In Somalia? In Palestine ?In any country that has a strong affiliation with Islam?

The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the Prophet Muhammad - That's pushing it by anyone's standards. We also used to allow people do do terrible things but we don't hold them up as shining examples and venerate them as prophets in a major religion.
Ironically after your remarks i do see grooming gangs of mostly Muslim men
taking advantage of vulnerable teenage girls, raping and indoctrinating them to be servile and obedient. Is this because of the strict rules about women in Islam encourages them to treat non-Muslim females with contempt?
I always thought is was strange that for a religion that prohibits so much between the sexes, the reward for a martyr in paradise is XX amount of virgins.

Salman Rushdie wrote a work of fiction exploring the relationship between holy writ and literature. His death sentence by the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran contravened every human rights and international law in the modern world. I walked past a pack of very upset Muslim men in London at the time who were protesting outside the large Books Etc shop and remember thinking i that i bet none of them had read the book that they were burning in front of me. Another example how religion can be used to fire emotions to elicit a response as required. Is Islam so insecure that it cannot cope with criticism and free inquiry? It seems so.

I completely agree that there has been a deterioration of morals and respect in the UK but i insist religion of any kind is not the answer. Education free of indoctrination is the answer and religion has always hampered free thought and expression. I welcome anyone who wishes to be here and hope they settle and integrate but this is not happening so i have to ask a sincere question - why are you here and not in a country that is controlled by the clerics of Islam that you venerate. I think i know the answer.
[quote][p][bold]johnny_english1[/bold] wrote: The people who noticed the work of a moron sticking posters up did report it. It is very ironic to direct freedom of expression to the right to offend a faith of two billion or so people world wide a large section of humanity. It is also ironic for a sad old man who blows the viking trumpet to label others as barbarians when it was his own proud ancestors greatest asset. So if anything not just brittain the whole world would be better of without the likes of "roy" and anjam chaudry, extremism is condemned in all shapes and forms. The actions of a few cannot be genralised on all. As for the link etc its a isolated case in a country governed by there own laws not applicable to muslims in the west, as such stories happen far more on the other side. I find it really funny to label Islam as barbaric or backwards, any objective mind can discover the greatest contributions by Islam to science development, maths and medicine, almost every field of life by Islamic culture when europe was in the dark ages, so quite a pathetic rant really. As for the paedophile rant, by popeondope ;) read the definition of the term then see where it applies. Stop reading hate material from websites with no knowledge of the actual sources. The prophets (pbuh) marriage was legal by all standards be it social or religious with not a single objection raised at the time nor centuries later only until now, Suprisingly however marriages in europe including england just over a hundred years ago would occur with young teenage girls, besides you dont see us labeling people when we see young girls in street corners offering oral stimulation for a pack of cigs or poor choir boys subject to frustrated old priests, all are individual cases and to label a complete people on the actions of few is Absurd. On the mr rushdie rant, have you read his book, have you read what he sees english people as, or what he considers the "white woman" as he puts it good for only one thing if you really researched his atrocious book and then addressed him as Sir, id actually laugh. Islam gave women rights when they had none when medievel europe was burning them as witches and doing modesty tests and acusing them of the original sin and nowadays sex objects, it is no wonder tens of thousands of women in the west from all academic and professional way of lives are adapting Islam as a way of life. Bottom line is everyone has the right to live there life within the boundaries of the law of the land as they wish and whoever be it mr chaoudry or mr griffin tries to impose their way of life onto another is a biggot and a extremeist. And no person has the right to offend another in the guise of freedom, its not freedom its opression, British muslims are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.[/p][/quote]"The actions of a few cannot be generalized on all." (sic) It can when that extremism derives from the same religious teachings supported by the majority of the faith who are incapable or unwilling to curtail behavior that is offensive, dangerous or knowingly divisive. Baghdad was the center of science for a long time and was dictated by culture, political will and economic wealth. Incredible discoveries were documented and translated from captured texts and i am in awe of the scientists that made them, but where are they now? What has happened to this vaunted education in Pakistan? In Iraq? In Iran? In Somalia? In Palestine ?In any country that has a strong affiliation with Islam? The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the Prophet Muhammad - That's pushing it by anyone's standards. We also used to allow people do do terrible things but we don't hold them up as shining examples and venerate them as prophets in a major religion. Ironically after your remarks i do see grooming gangs of mostly Muslim men taking advantage of vulnerable teenage girls, raping and indoctrinating them to be servile and obedient. Is this because of the strict rules about women in Islam encourages them to treat non-Muslim females with contempt? I always thought is was strange that for a religion that prohibits so much between the sexes, the reward for a martyr in paradise is XX amount of virgins. Salman Rushdie wrote a work of fiction exploring the relationship between holy writ and literature. His death sentence by the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran contravened every human rights and international law in the modern world. I walked past a pack of very upset Muslim men in London at the time who were protesting outside the large Books Etc shop and remember thinking i that i bet none of them had read the book that they were burning in front of me. Another example how religion can be used to fire emotions to elicit a response as required. Is Islam so insecure that it cannot cope with criticism and free inquiry? It seems so. I completely agree that there has been a deterioration of morals and respect in the UK but i insist religion of any kind is not the answer. Education free of indoctrination is the answer and religion has always hampered free thought and expression. I welcome anyone who wishes to be here and hope they settle and integrate but this is not happening so i have to ask a sincere question - why are you here and not in a country that is controlled by the clerics of Islam that you venerate. I think i know the answer. Popeonarope
  • Score: 3

11:37pm Fri 23 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Superb comments, Popeonarope, whoever you are! As you so rightly say, Islam is an insecure and paranoid culture that finds itself unable to cope with criticism, analysis and inquiry. It has become perverted by fanatics and as a result the Islamic world has fallen behind the West by many centuries.

The grooming of under-age girls by gangs of backward, macho Muslim men is indicative of a culture towards women that emanates from some ignorant, medieval stinkpot of a village in the remote depths of rural Pakistan, not modern Britain.

I can't help wondering whether the Muslims you saw protesting about Salman Rushdie's book could even read at all, never mind whether they had read it! This is the problem you get when religious fanaticism, the result of centuries of propaganda and inculcation of simple and pliable minds, is allowed to run unfettered and unchallenged because there is so much ignorance in the Islamic world.

I never thought I'd say this but I am becoming an admirer of Russia's President Putin, who has apparently ordered a clampdown on the building of any more mosques. Russia too, like Britain, has had more than its share of problems with fundamentalist Muslims. We could also follow France and ban the wearing of that hideous garment, the burka, in public.
Superb comments, Popeonarope, whoever you are! As you so rightly say, Islam is an insecure and paranoid culture that finds itself unable to cope with criticism, analysis and inquiry. It has become perverted by fanatics and as a result the Islamic world has fallen behind the West by many centuries. The grooming of under-age girls by gangs of backward, macho Muslim men is indicative of a culture towards women that emanates from some ignorant, medieval stinkpot of a village in the remote depths of rural Pakistan, not modern Britain. I can't help wondering whether the Muslims you saw protesting about Salman Rushdie's book could even read at all, never mind whether they had read it! This is the problem you get when religious fanaticism, the result of centuries of propaganda and inculcation of simple and pliable minds, is allowed to run unfettered and unchallenged because there is so much ignorance in the Islamic world. I never thought I'd say this but I am becoming an admirer of Russia's President Putin, who has apparently ordered a clampdown on the building of any more mosques. Russia too, like Britain, has had more than its share of problems with fundamentalist Muslims. We could also follow France and ban the wearing of that hideous garment, the burka, in public. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

11:59pm Fri 23 May 14

Popeonarope says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Superb comments, Popeonarope, whoever you are! As you so rightly say, Islam is an insecure and paranoid culture that finds itself unable to cope with criticism, analysis and inquiry. It has become perverted by fanatics and as a result the Islamic world has fallen behind the West by many centuries.

The grooming of under-age girls by gangs of backward, macho Muslim men is indicative of a culture towards women that emanates from some ignorant, medieval stinkpot of a village in the remote depths of rural Pakistan, not modern Britain.

I can't help wondering whether the Muslims you saw protesting about Salman Rushdie's book could even read at all, never mind whether they had read it! This is the problem you get when religious fanaticism, the result of centuries of propaganda and inculcation of simple and pliable minds, is allowed to run unfettered and unchallenged because there is so much ignorance in the Islamic world.

I never thought I'd say this but I am becoming an admirer of Russia's President Putin, who has apparently ordered a clampdown on the building of any more mosques. Russia too, like Britain, has had more than its share of problems with fundamentalist Muslims. We could also follow France and ban the wearing of that hideous garment, the burka, in public.
Thanks, i think.
I would have to disagree with you Roy. Im sure the fellas I saw could read, its just they were probably told they were not allowed to. That offends me as much as the actions of the clerics and those that went after an author for his work of fiction.
As for Putin, he has set back equal rights in Russia by 50 years. His anti gay laws show he has no understanding of civil rights or gender equality.
Mr Putin also signed a bill imposing jail terms and fines on those who offend religious believers. It sounds more like he is sucking up to those who have temporal influence and is swayed by the orthodox Russian clergy, who are another bunch of shriveled old men who spend to much time worrying about sin.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: Superb comments, Popeonarope, whoever you are! As you so rightly say, Islam is an insecure and paranoid culture that finds itself unable to cope with criticism, analysis and inquiry. It has become perverted by fanatics and as a result the Islamic world has fallen behind the West by many centuries. The grooming of under-age girls by gangs of backward, macho Muslim men is indicative of a culture towards women that emanates from some ignorant, medieval stinkpot of a village in the remote depths of rural Pakistan, not modern Britain. I can't help wondering whether the Muslims you saw protesting about Salman Rushdie's book could even read at all, never mind whether they had read it! This is the problem you get when religious fanaticism, the result of centuries of propaganda and inculcation of simple and pliable minds, is allowed to run unfettered and unchallenged because there is so much ignorance in the Islamic world. I never thought I'd say this but I am becoming an admirer of Russia's President Putin, who has apparently ordered a clampdown on the building of any more mosques. Russia too, like Britain, has had more than its share of problems with fundamentalist Muslims. We could also follow France and ban the wearing of that hideous garment, the burka, in public.[/p][/quote]Thanks, i think. I would have to disagree with you Roy. Im sure the fellas I saw could read, its just they were probably told they were not allowed to. That offends me as much as the actions of the clerics and those that went after an author for his work of fiction. As for Putin, he has set back equal rights in Russia by 50 years. His anti gay laws show he has no understanding of civil rights or gender equality. Mr Putin also signed a bill imposing jail terms and fines on those who offend religious believers. It sounds more like he is sucking up to those who have temporal influence and is swayed by the orthodox Russian clergy, who are another bunch of shriveled old men who spend to much time worrying about sin. Popeonarope
  • Score: 1

12:37am Sat 24 May 14

Popeonarope says...

IkkieH wrote:
99% of the troubles in the world? Only the ones that are publicised by the media here. Roy, were you also one of the few that did a madman rain dance when you found out that chicken in Pizza Express was halal?

Open your eyes and don't tar us all with the same brush. It's obvious someone was trying to get a reaction out of the Muslim community with those actions. Funnily, I haven't heard of crazy Islamic Ray Gun wielding bearded nutters running along the streets threatening random people.

The irony of some of the responses here is that you are talking about a minority of individuals who make the headlines that you see about how extremism has filtered its way into this country. Yet some responses here are quite extreme themselves. Article is about offensive posters and suddenly it has moved onto Barbaric Muslims and &quot;if they don't like it" style comments.

Much in the way this conversation has headed, do you think it would be right for me to picture you as a Jimmy Saville lookalike kiddy fiddler? I didn't think so.

I wish for this issue to be resolved in the quietest possible way, ensuring issues like this do not crop up in the future. We're a lovely bunch really.
Yes, the media does indeed love to promote stories that sell papers / airtime.
I don't have a problem with Muslims in the UK, just with their religion as i do with all religions. My neighbor is devout and we have agreed to disagree about Islam and religion but i couldn't ask for a better neighbor even with his choice of football teams. His wife is lovely and his kids are friendly, confident and happy.
I know UK Muslims contribute a significant amount to the UK economy, its culture and work across the board in many vocations they same as British Blacks and British Asians, but i still have strong reservations when i consider British Muslims as they identify themselves by their faith.
A lovely bunch seems a fair assessment which is all more of a reason for you act as a group to reduce the occurrences of radicalisation of kids, to ensure Anjem Choudary and his ilk are not taken seriously and appreciate that some aspects of your faith that impact directly on me such as halal meat i do find offensive as its is the result of religious conditioning and ritual.
[quote][p][bold]IkkieH[/bold] wrote: 99% of the troubles in the world? Only the ones that are publicised by the media here. Roy, were you also one of the few that did a madman rain dance when you found out that chicken in Pizza Express was halal? Open your eyes and don't tar us all with the same brush. It's obvious someone was trying to get a reaction out of the Muslim community with those actions. Funnily, I haven't heard of crazy Islamic Ray Gun wielding bearded nutters running along the streets threatening random people. The irony of some of the responses here is that you are talking about a minority of individuals who make the headlines that you see about how extremism has filtered its way into this country. Yet some responses here are quite extreme themselves. Article is about offensive posters and suddenly it has moved onto Barbaric Muslims and "if they don't like it" style comments. Much in the way this conversation has headed, do you think it would be right for me to picture you as a Jimmy Saville lookalike kiddy fiddler? I didn't think so. I wish for this issue to be resolved in the quietest possible way, ensuring issues like this do not crop up in the future. We're a lovely bunch really.[/p][/quote]Yes, the media does indeed love to promote stories that sell papers / airtime. I don't have a problem with Muslims in the UK, just with their religion as i do with all religions. My neighbor is devout and we have agreed to disagree about Islam and religion but i couldn't ask for a better neighbor even with his choice of football teams. His wife is lovely and his kids are friendly, confident and happy. I know UK Muslims contribute a significant amount to the UK economy, its culture and work across the board in many vocations they same as British Blacks and British Asians, but i still have strong reservations when i consider British Muslims as they identify themselves by their faith. A lovely bunch seems a fair assessment which is all more of a reason for you act as a group to reduce the occurrences of radicalisation of kids, to ensure Anjem Choudary and his ilk are not taken seriously and appreciate that some aspects of your faith that impact directly on me such as halal meat i do find offensive as its is the result of religious conditioning and ritual. Popeonarope
  • Score: 0

1:08am Sat 24 May 14

IkkieH says...

So the grooming of teenage girls in this country and the kiddie touching was only done by a bunch of guys who all happened to be "Muslim"? I could pick out a bag full of examples of Christian/White gangs who have done the same, not in a stinkpot Pakistani village but in urban dwellings in this country.

Ignorance really is bliss.
So the grooming of teenage girls in this country and the kiddie touching was only done by a bunch of guys who all happened to be "Muslim"? I could pick out a bag full of examples of Christian/White gangs who have done the same, not in a stinkpot Pakistani village but in urban dwellings in this country. Ignorance really is bliss. IkkieH
  • Score: 1

10:33am Sat 24 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Talking of halal meat, the British Veterinary Association, RSPCA and other bodies have called for the ritual slaughter of animals without being stunned beforehand to be outlawed by law, as it is deemed cruel and causes unnecessary suffering to the animal. It's a minority of animals that are killed in this way but still a sizeable number, if you believe the quoted figures.

The question is, why should millions of people who agree with this approach be forced to eat halal meat just to satisfy the religious whims of Muslims? The vast majority of people in Britain are not yet Muslims (fortunately, at least not yet), so why should they be compelled to kowtow to this religious nonsense?

According to a report in the Independent: "Between 84 and 90 per cent of animals killed for halal meat in the UK are processed by one of the large number of halal slaughterhouses which do use electric stunning beforehand. This does, however, leave a significant minority of animals which are killed without being stunned first, at one of a reported 12 slaughterhouses in the UK which still perform the more traditional practice, endorsed by Islamic scholars, of keeping the animal conscious when its throat is cut."

The mere idea of slaughtering helpless animals while they are still conscious and capable of feeling pain, merely to satisfy the whims of a few Islamic scholars confirms what a barbaric practice it is.

Earlier this year the Danish government decided to remove the exemption and said that “animal rights come before religion”. It joined Switzerland, Sweden, Norway and Iceland in banning the religious slaughter. Isn't it about time Britain followed suit and banned all offensive practices based on medieval rituals that have absolutely no place in the 21st century?
Talking of halal meat, the British Veterinary Association, RSPCA and other bodies have called for the ritual slaughter of animals without being stunned beforehand to be outlawed by law, as it is deemed cruel and causes unnecessary suffering to the animal. It's a minority of animals that are killed in this way but still a sizeable number, if you believe the quoted figures. The question is, why should millions of people who agree with this approach be forced to eat halal meat just to satisfy the religious whims of Muslims? The vast majority of people in Britain are not yet Muslims (fortunately, at least not yet), so why should they be compelled to kowtow to this religious nonsense? According to a report in the Independent: "Between 84 and 90 per cent of animals killed for halal meat in the UK are processed by one of the large number of halal slaughterhouses which do use electric stunning beforehand. This does, however, leave a significant minority of animals which are killed without being stunned first, at one of a reported 12 slaughterhouses in the UK which still perform the more traditional practice, endorsed by Islamic scholars, of keeping the animal conscious when its throat is cut." The mere idea of slaughtering helpless animals while they are still conscious and capable of feeling pain, merely to satisfy the whims of a few Islamic scholars confirms what a barbaric practice it is. Earlier this year the Danish government decided to remove the exemption and said that “animal rights come before religion”. It joined Switzerland, Sweden, Norway and Iceland in banning the religious slaughter. Isn't it about time Britain followed suit and banned all offensive practices based on medieval rituals that have absolutely no place in the 21st century? Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 1

11:08am Sat 24 May 14

IkkieH says...

Roy, why do you go off on tangents?

Most halal meat is slaughtered after electrocution anyway. I believe HFA certified meat does this, which is the vast majority of the halal meat produced. HMC meat is not electrocuted but the minority of places that use it are labeled so.

I notice you completely overlooked what I wrote before your post and decided to troll some more by talking about halal meat. Coincidentally, you are making noises about halal meat much in the same way as I described in my first post.

If you feel that strongly for the animal, just become vegetarian.

Stop cherry picking points to throw at your screen because its frankly pathetic from someone of your age.
Roy, why do you go off on tangents? Most halal meat is slaughtered after electrocution anyway. I believe HFA certified meat does this, which is the vast majority of the halal meat produced. HMC meat is not electrocuted but the minority of places that use it are labeled so. I notice you completely overlooked what I wrote before your post and decided to troll some more by talking about halal meat. Coincidentally, you are making noises about halal meat much in the same way as I described in my first post. If you feel that strongly for the animal, just become vegetarian. Stop cherry picking points to throw at your screen because its frankly pathetic from someone of your age. IkkieH
  • Score: 2

6:02pm Sat 24 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

Popeonarope wrote:
johnny_english1 wrote:
The people who noticed the work of a moron sticking posters up did report it. It is very ironic to direct freedom of expression to the right to offend a faith of two billion or so people world wide a large section of humanity. It is also ironic for a sad old man who blows the viking trumpet to label others as barbarians when it was his own proud ancestors greatest asset. So if anything not just brittain the whole world would be better of without the likes of &quot;roy" and anjam chaudry, extremism is condemned in all shapes and forms. The actions of a few cannot be genralised on all.

As for the link etc its a isolated case in a country governed by there own laws not applicable to muslims in the west, as such stories happen far more on the other side. I find it really funny to label Islam as barbaric or backwards, any objective mind can discover the greatest contributions by Islam to science development, maths and medicine, almost every field of life by Islamic culture when europe was in the dark ages, so quite a pathetic rant really. As for the paedophile rant, by popeondope ;) read the definition of the term then see where it applies. Stop reading hate material from websites with no knowledge of the actual sources. The prophets (pbuh) marriage was legal by all standards be it social or religious with not a single objection raised at the time nor centuries later only until now, Suprisingly however marriages in europe including england just over a hundred years ago would occur with young teenage girls, besides you dont see us labeling people when we see young girls in street corners offering oral stimulation for a pack of cigs or poor choir boys subject to frustrated old priests, all are individual cases and to label a complete people on the actions of few is Absurd.

On the mr rushdie rant, have you read his book, have you read what he sees english people as, or what he considers the "white woman" as he puts it good for only one thing if you really researched his atrocious book and then addressed him as Sir, id actually laugh.

Islam gave women rights when they had none when medievel europe was burning them as witches and doing modesty tests and acusing them of the original sin and nowadays sex objects, it is no wonder tens of thousands of women in the west from all academic and professional way of lives are adapting Islam as a way of life. Bottom line is everyone has the right to live there life within the boundaries of the law of the land as they wish and whoever be it mr chaoudry or mr griffin tries to impose their way of life onto another is a biggot and a extremeist. And no person has the right to offend another in the guise of freedom, its not freedom its opression, British muslims
are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.
"The actions of a few cannot be generalized on all." (sic)
It can when that extremism derives from the same religious teachings supported by the majority of the faith who are incapable or unwilling to curtail behavior that is offensive, dangerous or knowingly divisive.

Baghdad was the center of science for a long time and was dictated by culture, political will and economic wealth. Incredible discoveries were documented and translated from captured texts and i am in awe of the scientists that made them, but where are they now? What has happened to this vaunted education in Pakistan? In Iraq? In Iran? In Somalia? In Palestine ?In any country that has a strong affiliation with Islam?

The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the Prophet Muhammad - That's pushing it by anyone's standards. We also used to allow people do do terrible things but we don't hold them up as shining examples and venerate them as prophets in a major religion.
Ironically after your remarks i do see grooming gangs of mostly Muslim men
taking advantage of vulnerable teenage girls, raping and indoctrinating them to be servile and obedient. Is this because of the strict rules about women in Islam encourages them to treat non-Muslim females with contempt?
I always thought is was strange that for a religion that prohibits so much between the sexes, the reward for a martyr in paradise is XX amount of virgins.

Salman Rushdie wrote a work of fiction exploring the relationship between holy writ and literature. His death sentence by the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran contravened every human rights and international law in the modern world. I walked past a pack of very upset Muslim men in London at the time who were protesting outside the large Books Etc shop and remember thinking i that i bet none of them had read the book that they were burning in front of me. Another example how religion can be used to fire emotions to elicit a response as required. Is Islam so insecure that it cannot cope with criticism and free inquiry? It seems so.

I completely agree that there has been a deterioration of morals and respect in the UK but i insist religion of any kind is not the answer. Education free of indoctrination is the answer and religion has always hampered free thought and expression. I welcome anyone who wishes to be here and hope they settle and integrate but this is not happening so i have to ask a sincere question - why are you here and not in a country that is controlled by the clerics of Islam that you venerate. I think i know the answer.
Have you read anything of these so called sources or as usual just reading of random websites, and then trying to come across as some expert. It is in fact quite laughable as it is something I have seen over and over again change the **** record pick up a book then try and lecture on it. Oh pope on the dope seems like you've made a fan in the form of Mr Roy who brags about "His culture" I wonder what culture that is LOL. A man who knows his great grandmothers ancestry but not his fathers, ;) need I say anymore. Now on Your rants, First of can you prove that the age of consent in Iran is 9, show me a proof from Iranian constitution, in order for it to be a state recognised marriage. In Iran according to pay and is 18 for men 16 for women. Now Open your trap and prove the state source. Yes young marriages happened in all societies even English hundreds of years ago. But they were marriages, Times when life expectancy was far lower, had parental involvement and were blissful lasting marriages. Not Saturday night romps or young teenage girls getting up the dove and not knowing who the father is as happens here even now in the west. The first has dignified aspects the second is ehum a norm nowadays in the west.

"Incredible discoveries were documented and translated from captured texts and i am in awe of the scientists that made them, but where are they now? What has happened to this vaunted education in Pakistan? In Iraq? In Iran? In Somalia? In Palestine ?"

Incredible discoveries were made in the Islamic empire all over not just the countries you named, what happened you ask? The colonist certain bunch of people in the guise of freedoms the people of those lands gave them went there causing internal strife anarchy and mass lootings of the great riches many of these countries like India had. A universal fact only a blind man would deny, as for Palestine, do you see it on the map? , what happened to it Einstein you tell me.

"The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the Prophet Muhammad -" I answered that above show the source of iran allowing that? As for fundamentalist Iran far as history tells me it wa sthe people of iran who kicked out the shah and made their own right of self determination, it is not your lunch box to throw labels. as for the prophets marriage it was legal by all standards all faiths, and no objection at the time was raised, it was initiated by her own parents, and she always remained a loyal wife and never married another man. As for her age, the reports that give her age as below 16 is by a weak narrator who suffered loss of memory and never MET HER, we have a complete science of narration in hadith it is not once upon a time stories people are accustomed to here, Historical accounts prove her age to be 16-19 at the time. The new advent bible online under section of joseph says, Mary married the carpenter joseph when she was 12 and he some 90 or so, now is it valid for a person to draw your conclusions here? , it was a custom of the time. I don’t think you are at the scholarly level for me to give you a detailed response. In fact such marriages happened not so long ago in Victorian England, so if your English , your ancestors.

"Ironically after your remarks i do see grooming gangs of mostly Muslim men taking advantage of vulnerable teenage girls, raping and indoctrinating them to be servile and obedient. Is this because of the strict rules about women in Islam encourages them to treat non-Muslim females with contempt? I always thought it was strange that for a religion that prohibits so much between the sexes, the reward for a martyr in paradise is XX amount of virgins."

I see that amongst white men far more in the west look at the lost hostages kidnapped young girls coming forward being held for years by products of your society as you love to defend, as for those men, you would have an argument had they had any scriptural backing for their actions, But that you will never get because there isn't any, those men live in England not in some Islamic state they get there influences from our British society, you know the women is a sex object one, the jimmy saville one, the get the choir boy one, the page 3 one, the rampant **** industry one. SO that although despicable, is a few evil men don't bring their supposed faith into it. As for strict rules?, which rules and strict to whom? You or me? I don’t see any restriction oh news flash such strict rules but the fastest growing faith on the face of the planet with a vast amount of women given up a western way of life and adopting Islam, Oh so strict, right so because you can’t perv on a women who wishes to guard her modesty, so this becomes strict, well poor you. As for the reward of a martyr it’s from a tradition or report it is not scripture and it is NOT referring to romps, its authenticity can be questioned it is talk of heavenly beings as wives, that is no motivation for despicable deeds as terrorism, and those who qpoute it doen even know its origin or true context.

“Salman Rushdie wrote a work of fiction exploring the relationship between holy writ and literature.”

Are you insulting your own intelligence or mine? Tell me oh professor in a book of fiction do you use names of real men? Not any old men but famous and religiously revered men, and then take narratives from their lives and twist them and add your perverted interior deign to them and mock such personalities is that fiction? Do you even know the definition of fiction? Stop your absurd conclusions, without any common sense.
“Why are you here and not in a country that is controlled by the clerics of Islam that you venerate. I think i know the answer.”
I am here because I am born here like yourself or probably not I don’t know where you’re from, I am here from immigrants parents who came to this country seeking a better life because there countries had been raped and plundered by colonists , who stole their wealth, as for your second assertion there is no country controlled by clerics of Islam, in its truest form, Saudi Arabia are installed puppets everyone knows that. I am here because i Love this country , it is home, as for your thinking " of go home" let me tell you it aint happeneing. Asking questions is good, infact faith encourages that, I am against mocking people out of ignorance and hurting peoples sentiments due to a sick bigoted mindset hiding in the disguise of freedom of speech.
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnny_english1[/bold] wrote: The people who noticed the work of a moron sticking posters up did report it. It is very ironic to direct freedom of expression to the right to offend a faith of two billion or so people world wide a large section of humanity. It is also ironic for a sad old man who blows the viking trumpet to label others as barbarians when it was his own proud ancestors greatest asset. So if anything not just brittain the whole world would be better of without the likes of "roy" and anjam chaudry, extremism is condemned in all shapes and forms. The actions of a few cannot be genralised on all. As for the link etc its a isolated case in a country governed by there own laws not applicable to muslims in the west, as such stories happen far more on the other side. I find it really funny to label Islam as barbaric or backwards, any objective mind can discover the greatest contributions by Islam to science development, maths and medicine, almost every field of life by Islamic culture when europe was in the dark ages, so quite a pathetic rant really. As for the paedophile rant, by popeondope ;) read the definition of the term then see where it applies. Stop reading hate material from websites with no knowledge of the actual sources. The prophets (pbuh) marriage was legal by all standards be it social or religious with not a single objection raised at the time nor centuries later only until now, Suprisingly however marriages in europe including england just over a hundred years ago would occur with young teenage girls, besides you dont see us labeling people when we see young girls in street corners offering oral stimulation for a pack of cigs or poor choir boys subject to frustrated old priests, all are individual cases and to label a complete people on the actions of few is Absurd. On the mr rushdie rant, have you read his book, have you read what he sees english people as, or what he considers the "white woman" as he puts it good for only one thing if you really researched his atrocious book and then addressed him as Sir, id actually laugh. Islam gave women rights when they had none when medievel europe was burning them as witches and doing modesty tests and acusing them of the original sin and nowadays sex objects, it is no wonder tens of thousands of women in the west from all academic and professional way of lives are adapting Islam as a way of life. Bottom line is everyone has the right to live there life within the boundaries of the law of the land as they wish and whoever be it mr chaoudry or mr griffin tries to impose their way of life onto another is a biggot and a extremeist. And no person has the right to offend another in the guise of freedom, its not freedom its opression, British muslims are as british as anyone else, and i dnt see how people redraining from pubs clubs or not eating certain foods makes anyone less british.[/p][/quote]"The actions of a few cannot be generalized on all." (sic) It can when that extremism derives from the same religious teachings supported by the majority of the faith who are incapable or unwilling to curtail behavior that is offensive, dangerous or knowingly divisive. Baghdad was the center of science for a long time and was dictated by culture, political will and economic wealth. Incredible discoveries were documented and translated from captured texts and i am in awe of the scientists that made them, but where are they now? What has happened to this vaunted education in Pakistan? In Iraq? In Iran? In Somalia? In Palestine ?In any country that has a strong affiliation with Islam? The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the Prophet Muhammad - That's pushing it by anyone's standards. We also used to allow people do do terrible things but we don't hold them up as shining examples and venerate them as prophets in a major religion. Ironically after your remarks i do see grooming gangs of mostly Muslim men taking advantage of vulnerable teenage girls, raping and indoctrinating them to be servile and obedient. Is this because of the strict rules about women in Islam encourages them to treat non-Muslim females with contempt? I always thought is was strange that for a religion that prohibits so much between the sexes, the reward for a martyr in paradise is XX amount of virgins. Salman Rushdie wrote a work of fiction exploring the relationship between holy writ and literature. His death sentence by the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran contravened every human rights and international law in the modern world. I walked past a pack of very upset Muslim men in London at the time who were protesting outside the large Books Etc shop and remember thinking i that i bet none of them had read the book that they were burning in front of me. Another example how religion can be used to fire emotions to elicit a response as required. Is Islam so insecure that it cannot cope with criticism and free inquiry? It seems so. I completely agree that there has been a deterioration of morals and respect in the UK but i insist religion of any kind is not the answer. Education free of indoctrination is the answer and religion has always hampered free thought and expression. I welcome anyone who wishes to be here and hope they settle and integrate but this is not happening so i have to ask a sincere question - why are you here and not in a country that is controlled by the clerics of Islam that you venerate. I think i know the answer.[/p][/quote]Have you read anything of these so called sources or as usual just reading of random websites, and then trying to come across as some expert. It is in fact quite laughable as it is something I have seen over and over again change the **** record pick up a book then try and lecture on it. Oh pope on the dope seems like you've made a fan in the form of Mr Roy who brags about "His culture" I wonder what culture that is LOL. A man who knows his great grandmothers ancestry but not his fathers, ;) need I say anymore. Now on Your rants, First of can you prove that the age of consent in Iran is 9, show me a proof from Iranian constitution, in order for it to be a state recognised marriage. In Iran according to pay and is 18 for men 16 for women. Now Open your trap and prove the state source. Yes young marriages happened in all societies even English hundreds of years ago. But they were marriages, Times when life expectancy was far lower, had parental involvement and were blissful lasting marriages. Not Saturday night romps or young teenage girls getting up the dove and not knowing who the father is as happens here even now in the west. The first has dignified aspects the second is ehum a norm nowadays in the west. "Incredible discoveries were documented and translated from captured texts and i am in awe of the scientists that made them, but where are they now? What has happened to this vaunted education in Pakistan? In Iraq? In Iran? In Somalia? In Palestine ?" Incredible discoveries were made in the Islamic empire all over not just the countries you named, what happened you ask? The colonist certain bunch of people in the guise of freedoms the people of those lands gave them went there causing internal strife anarchy and mass lootings of the great riches many of these countries like India had. A universal fact only a blind man would deny, as for Palestine, do you see it on the map? , what happened to it Einstein you tell me. "The Shia fundamentalists in Iran lowered the age of "consent" to nine, perhaps in admiring emulation of the age of the youngest "wife" of the Prophet Muhammad -" I answered that above show the source of iran allowing that? As for fundamentalist Iran far as history tells me it wa sthe people of iran who kicked out the shah and made their own right of self determination, it is not your lunch box to throw labels. as for the prophets marriage it was legal by all standards all faiths, and no objection at the time was raised, it was initiated by her own parents, and she always remained a loyal wife and never married another man. As for her age, the reports that give her age as below 16 is by a weak narrator who suffered loss of memory and never MET HER, we have a complete science of narration in hadith it is not once upon a time stories people are accustomed to here, Historical accounts prove her age to be 16-19 at the time. The new advent bible online under section of joseph says, Mary married the carpenter joseph when she was 12 and he some 90 or so, now is it valid for a person to draw your conclusions here? , it was a custom of the time. I don’t think you are at the scholarly level for me to give you a detailed response. In fact such marriages happened not so long ago in Victorian England, so if your English , your ancestors. "Ironically after your remarks i do see grooming gangs of mostly Muslim men taking advantage of vulnerable teenage girls, raping and indoctrinating them to be servile and obedient. Is this because of the strict rules about women in Islam encourages them to treat non-Muslim females with contempt? I always thought it was strange that for a religion that prohibits so much between the sexes, the reward for a martyr in paradise is XX amount of virgins." I see that amongst white men far more in the west look at the lost hostages kidnapped young girls coming forward being held for years by products of your society as you love to defend, as for those men, you would have an argument had they had any scriptural backing for their actions, But that you will never get because there isn't any, those men live in England not in some Islamic state they get there influences from our British society, you know the women is a sex object one, the jimmy saville one, the get the choir boy one, the page 3 one, the rampant **** industry one. SO that although despicable, is a few evil men don't bring their supposed faith into it. As for strict rules?, which rules and strict to whom? You or me? I don’t see any restriction oh news flash such strict rules but the fastest growing faith on the face of the planet with a vast amount of women given up a western way of life and adopting Islam, Oh so strict, right so because you can’t perv on a women who wishes to guard her modesty, so this becomes strict, well poor you. As for the reward of a martyr it’s from a tradition or report it is not scripture and it is NOT referring to romps, its authenticity can be questioned it is talk of heavenly beings as wives, that is no motivation for despicable deeds as terrorism, and those who qpoute it doen even know its origin or true context. “Salman Rushdie wrote a work of fiction exploring the relationship between holy writ and literature.” Are you insulting your own intelligence or mine? Tell me oh professor in a book of fiction do you use names of real men? Not any old men but famous and religiously revered men, and then take narratives from their lives and twist them and add your perverted interior deign to them and mock such personalities is that fiction? Do you even know the definition of fiction? Stop your absurd conclusions, without any common sense. “Why are you here and not in a country that is controlled by the clerics of Islam that you venerate. I think i know the answer.” I am here because I am born here like yourself or probably not I don’t know where you’re from, I am here from immigrants parents who came to this country seeking a better life because there countries had been raped and plundered by colonists , who stole their wealth, as for your second assertion there is no country controlled by clerics of Islam, in its truest form, Saudi Arabia are installed puppets everyone knows that. I am here because i Love this country , it is home, as for your thinking " of go home" let me tell you it aint happeneing. Asking questions is good, infact faith encourages that, I am against mocking people out of ignorance and hurting peoples sentiments due to a sick bigoted mindset hiding in the disguise of freedom of speech. johnny_english1
  • Score: 1

6:37pm Sat 24 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

If you are going for a prize for the longest and most boring post ever seen on a newspaper website, don't worry, you've won it! Your rambling diatribe is a good reason why I reckon Muslims are the most boring, tedious, dreary little people on the planet. You seem to be against just about everything, and I wonder if you ever have any fun in life other than banging on about your religious twaddle?

>Oh pope on the dope seems like you've made a fan in the form of Mr Roy who brags about "His culture" I wonder what culture that is LOL. A man who knows his great grandmothers ancestry but not his fathers,<

I am a total loss to understand this comment! I know precisely who my father was, moreover I can trace my ancestry in Yorkshire in the direct male line back six generations to 1718 - in the direct male line, not a female line. I wonder how far you can trace your ancestry back? I'm glad to hear you love Britain, I only wish some of your fellow Muslims felt the same and didn't keep trying to force their culture onto us because WE DON'T WANT IT.

I will say it again, one more time, and finally: ALL religions without exception are simply a load of superstitious rubbish and nonsense, a product of centuries of brainwashing and propaganda afflicting the minds of simple, gullible people who are either not sufficiently educated or perhaps not brave enough to question it. The world will see the truth, finally, one day and eradicate the disease that is religion and come to see that there are no gods, no allahs, no prophets, no heaven and hell, no vestal virgins waiting to serve you in the after life because there is NO after life. We are here only once as a result of evolution over many millions of years, that we are here at all was probably the result of some gigantic chemical accident many aeons ago, not by the hand of some unseen deity or supernatural being. We only get one life and it's up to us to make the best we can of it!
If you are going for a prize for the longest and most boring post ever seen on a newspaper website, don't worry, you've won it! Your rambling diatribe is a good reason why I reckon Muslims are the most boring, tedious, dreary little people on the planet. You seem to be against just about everything, and I wonder if you ever have any fun in life other than banging on about your religious twaddle? >Oh pope on the dope seems like you've made a fan in the form of Mr Roy who brags about "His culture" I wonder what culture that is LOL. A man who knows his great grandmothers ancestry but not his fathers,< I am a total loss to understand this comment! I know precisely who my father was, moreover I can trace my ancestry in Yorkshire in the direct male line back six generations to 1718 - in the direct male line, not a female line. I wonder how far you can trace your ancestry back? I'm glad to hear you love Britain, I only wish some of your fellow Muslims felt the same and didn't keep trying to force their culture onto us because WE DON'T WANT IT. I will say it again, one more time, and finally: ALL religions without exception are simply a load of superstitious rubbish and nonsense, a product of centuries of brainwashing and propaganda afflicting the minds of simple, gullible people who are either not sufficiently educated or perhaps not brave enough to question it. The world will see the truth, finally, one day and eradicate the disease that is religion and come to see that there are no gods, no allahs, no prophets, no heaven and hell, no vestal virgins waiting to serve you in the after life because there is NO after life. We are here only once as a result of evolution over many millions of years, that we are here at all was probably the result of some gigantic chemical accident many aeons ago, not by the hand of some unseen deity or supernatural being. We only get one life and it's up to us to make the best we can of it! Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

10:28pm Sat 24 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
If you are going for a prize for the longest and most boring post ever seen on a newspaper website, don't worry, you've won it! Your rambling diatribe is a good reason why I reckon Muslims are the most boring, tedious, dreary little people on the planet. You seem to be against just about everything, and I wonder if you ever have any fun in life other than banging on about your religious twaddle?

&gt;Oh pope on the dope seems like you've made a fan in the form of Mr Roy who brags about &quot;His culture" I wonder what culture that is LOL. A man who knows his great grandmothers ancestry but not his fathers,&lt;

I am a total loss to understand this comment! I know precisely who my father was, moreover I can trace my ancestry in Yorkshire in the direct male line back six generations to 1718 - in the direct male line, not a female line. I wonder how far you can trace your ancestry back? I'm glad to hear you love Britain, I only wish some of your fellow Muslims felt the same and didn't keep trying to force their culture onto us because WE DON'T WANT IT.

I will say it again, one more time, and finally: ALL religions without exception are simply a load of superstitious rubbish and nonsense, a product of centuries of brainwashing and propaganda afflicting the minds of simple, gullible people who are either not sufficiently educated or perhaps not brave enough to question it. The world will see the truth, finally, one day and eradicate the disease that is religion and come to see that there are no gods, no allahs, no prophets, no heaven and hell, no vestal virgins waiting to serve you in the after life because there is NO after life. We are here only once as a result of evolution over many millions of years, that we are here at all was probably the result of some gigantic chemical accident many aeons ago, not by the hand of some unseen deity or supernatural being. We only get one life and it's up to us to make the best we can of it!
In Reply to Your question, yes i have a family tree and can trace my linage back over 15 centuries ago, my ancestors include reputable men of honour heritage , valour and charchter all born through lawful wedlock not saturday night fevers. Secondly i find atheism backward absurd yet i can tolerate them im not a fanatic like you. Im not going on about my faith i just feel "truth is manifest from erorr" . You can wishful think and console youre self about chemical acidents as much as you like deep down even u know its b*ll ;). I do enjoy alot of my time thank you very much, why u want a football match? lol. As for forcing culture on you thats pure cr** its you guys that try and force your lifestyle on us and we say and we repeat NO THANKS. you live as u wish and we have our own way of life. To you yours to us ours can it be any simpler.
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: If you are going for a prize for the longest and most boring post ever seen on a newspaper website, don't worry, you've won it! Your rambling diatribe is a good reason why I reckon Muslims are the most boring, tedious, dreary little people on the planet. You seem to be against just about everything, and I wonder if you ever have any fun in life other than banging on about your religious twaddle? >Oh pope on the dope seems like you've made a fan in the form of Mr Roy who brags about "His culture" I wonder what culture that is LOL. A man who knows his great grandmothers ancestry but not his fathers,< I am a total loss to understand this comment! I know precisely who my father was, moreover I can trace my ancestry in Yorkshire in the direct male line back six generations to 1718 - in the direct male line, not a female line. I wonder how far you can trace your ancestry back? I'm glad to hear you love Britain, I only wish some of your fellow Muslims felt the same and didn't keep trying to force their culture onto us because WE DON'T WANT IT. I will say it again, one more time, and finally: ALL religions without exception are simply a load of superstitious rubbish and nonsense, a product of centuries of brainwashing and propaganda afflicting the minds of simple, gullible people who are either not sufficiently educated or perhaps not brave enough to question it. The world will see the truth, finally, one day and eradicate the disease that is religion and come to see that there are no gods, no allahs, no prophets, no heaven and hell, no vestal virgins waiting to serve you in the after life because there is NO after life. We are here only once as a result of evolution over many millions of years, that we are here at all was probably the result of some gigantic chemical accident many aeons ago, not by the hand of some unseen deity or supernatural being. We only get one life and it's up to us to make the best we can of it![/p][/quote]In Reply to Your question, yes i have a family tree and can trace my linage back over 15 centuries ago, my ancestors include reputable men of honour heritage , valour and charchter all born through lawful wedlock not saturday night fevers. Secondly i find atheism backward absurd yet i can tolerate them im not a fanatic like you. Im not going on about my faith i just feel "truth is manifest from erorr" . You can wishful think and console youre self about chemical acidents as much as you like deep down even u know its b*ll ;). I do enjoy alot of my time thank you very much, why u want a football match? lol. As for forcing culture on you thats pure cr** its you guys that try and force your lifestyle on us and we say and we repeat NO THANKS. you live as u wish and we have our own way of life. To you yours to us ours can it be any simpler. johnny_english1
  • Score: 0

10:44pm Sat 24 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?

Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?

I look forward to your posting your family tree with, of course, full source references.
Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***? Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all? I look forward to your posting your family tree with, of course, full source references. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

11:09pm Sat 24 May 14

Popeonarope says...

I am not asking anyone to go home. I am asking that what is needed from the supporters of your very confident faith is more self-criticism and less self-pity and self-righteousness.

Okay, i need to abbreviate some of the context as i dont have all night but here you go.

http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/worldnew
s/middleeast/iran/95
00484/Alarm-as-hundr
eds-of-children-unde
r-age-of-10-married-
in-Iran.html

http://www.examiner.
com/article/tens-of-
thousands-worldwide-
petition-iran-to-end
-child-marriages

There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now!
"...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence.

I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today. It seems that these factions murderous intent can still be seen today with suicide bombings, murders, kidnappings and executions prevalent between not only those of other faiths but between those who follows the Koran as well. Religion is still the cause of the majority of the horrors in the world today as it has always been. Uneducated people fed a constant dogma by priests, clerics and other religious leaders in the poorest nations facilitate their own dependency as they have very limited alternatives or opportunities to break of of this circle of control.

"Not any old men but famous and religiously revered men, and then take narratives from their lives and twist them and add your perverted interior design to them and mock such personalities is that fiction? Do you even know the definition of fiction?" (sic)
Hmm, just because something is printed does not make it true. The literal mind does not understand the ironic mind, and sees it always as a source of danger. I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.
Whatever he wrote, for which he later apologized, resulted in a death sentence from a ruler of a foreign nation. This should have resulted in condemnation from every civilized person on the planet but instead mass capitulation followed and people were murdered in the circus that ensued. Islam means Peace only when applied to your requirements and standards?

Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.
Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.

I dont want to row about why you are here. The UK is a cosmopolitan culture founded on equality and tolerant of many customs and people and i would defend your rights to be here along with anyone else who chooses to make this country their home. I happen to think it in some respects it is too tolerant but that is a political argument against political correctness being used to defeat the wishes of the majority.
Charity, love and respect are inherent in all healthy people. Religion can both help and hinder these virtues but i will never accept that they are the seed of them.
Good without god is perfectly possible and proven.
I am not asking anyone to go home. I am asking that what is needed from the supporters of your very confident faith is more self-criticism and less self-pity and self-righteousness. Okay, i need to abbreviate some of the context as i dont have all night but here you go. http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/worldnew s/middleeast/iran/95 00484/Alarm-as-hundr eds-of-children-unde r-age-of-10-married- in-Iran.html http://www.examiner. com/article/tens-of- thousands-worldwide- petition-iran-to-end -child-marriages There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now! "...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence. I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today. It seems that these factions murderous intent can still be seen today with suicide bombings, murders, kidnappings and executions prevalent between not only those of other faiths but between those who follows the Koran as well. Religion is still the cause of the majority of the horrors in the world today as it has always been. Uneducated people fed a constant dogma by priests, clerics and other religious leaders in the poorest nations facilitate their own dependency as they have very limited alternatives or opportunities to break of of this circle of control. "Not any old men but famous and religiously revered men, and then take narratives from their lives and twist them and add your perverted interior design to them and mock such personalities is that fiction? Do you even know the definition of fiction?" (sic) Hmm, just because something is printed does not make it true. The literal mind does not understand the ironic mind, and sees it always as a source of danger. I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull. Whatever he wrote, for which he later apologized, resulted in a death sentence from a ruler of a foreign nation. This should have resulted in condemnation from every civilized person on the planet but instead mass capitulation followed and people were murdered in the circus that ensued. Islam means Peace only when applied to your requirements and standards? Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in. Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change. I dont want to row about why you are here. The UK is a cosmopolitan culture founded on equality and tolerant of many customs and people and i would defend your rights to be here along with anyone else who chooses to make this country their home. I happen to think it in some respects it is too tolerant but that is a political argument against political correctness being used to defeat the wishes of the majority. Charity, love and respect are inherent in all healthy people. Religion can both help and hinder these virtues but i will never accept that they are the seed of them. Good without god is perfectly possible and proven. Popeonarope
  • Score: 1

11:41am Sun 25 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

I wonder what will happen to johnny-english1 (and is his pseudonym a joke?) when he gets to Paradise and is terribly disappointed to find there are no vestal virgins waiting to service his every wish? Except, of course, he'll never know about it because there is no such place!

How anyone in the 21st century can believe the superstitious mumbo jumbo of a book written 1500-1600 years ago in the Dark Ages, when the world was even more full of ignorant and backward people than it is today, by someone whose very existence is questioned by some historians, is beyond my understanding. Both the Bible and the Koran, indeed all religious books, are works of fiction and should be read as such, perhaps for entertainment but certainly not for enlightenment.
I wonder what will happen to johnny-english1 (and is his pseudonym a joke?) when he gets to Paradise and is terribly disappointed to find there are no vestal virgins waiting to service his every wish? Except, of course, he'll never know about it because there is no such place! How anyone in the 21st century can believe the superstitious mumbo jumbo of a book written 1500-1600 years ago in the Dark Ages, when the world was even more full of ignorant and backward people than it is today, by someone whose very existence is questioned by some historians, is beyond my understanding. Both the Bible and the Koran, indeed all religious books, are works of fiction and should be read as such, perhaps for entertainment but certainly not for enlightenment. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

4:35pm Sun 25 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

Roy wrote, “Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?”

Yes I can and I have no need to prove that to you or to post my personal information on a comment section of a newspaper, as if you are some kind of authority. I am not claiming descent from the Prophet (Pbuh), so stop making assumptions.

Roy “Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?”

Historians like yourself?. This is the most absurd and ridiculously stupid statement I ever read. Its pure gibberish coming out from your mouth now. There’s thousands of historians/ authors, muslim or non who have documented almost every aspect of the prophets life, his birth, his marriages, his children, his place of burial a great landmark today, his mission the great phenomena in the entire world as a result of his mission. There are people alive today going back father to son who met the prophet in their thousands, there are many legitimate descendants of the prophet alive today with well-known documented family trees to the Prophet recorded by the expert genealogists, from almost every century. What a few bigoted jealous racist minds think who gives a monkeys. Through almost every century after the Prophet each of his descendant’s were well known famous People. NO HUMAN LIFE IS AS DOCUMENTED FROM THE PAST AS THE PROPHET’S, AND THAT’S A CHALLENGE. HIS MIRACLE OF THE Quran compiled in his very life term preserved both through memory and writing by many many scribes in the Prophets lifetime, and the thousands of companions who saw him and recounted their experiences is undeniable evidence no Human life has as much evidence for existence as does the PROPHETS, so stop your dust bin jargon.

To The POPEONALOTOFDOPE: I don’t need your approval for anything think as you wish, can’t be said any simpler. As for your sources, wow newspaper articles? Is this academic? Journalist that hail from an islamaphobic society just like you enjoy demonization of a people. Like I said show something from the constitution. Even so for arguments sake were talking of marriages, through legal guardian consent, not child single parent pregnancies we see in our very own society here in England.

POPEONDADOPE: “There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now!
"...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”

LOL Mr. academic you just contradicted yourself. First you make the assumption the prophet married a six year old based on a historical inaccurate report, Because that is all it is and I challenge you to show it in anything but a report in something you yourself said, POPEONDOPE “" Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”.

To this I say “ duhhhhh” so it doesn’t constitute proof nor counter arguments, the hadith compilation is just stories compiled years after events, and unreliable yet you are the one trying to quote it, LoL genius , For your information, hadith is way far more complex and sophisticated for you to understand, every narrators life birth, death, whom he met, narrated from, is documented, every hadith has classification, strong , weak, reliable, acceptable etc., Hence why I pointed out what you mention is from a single narrator whom never met neither parties mentioned and for whom the biographers mention suffered from memory loss in old age , from where this story originates. IF you have common sense you would admit your flawed argument, in fact You shot your own foot here. By discrediting the very evidence you are presenting, CLASSIC.

POPE wrote; “I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The Mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today"

I didn’t even mention the decline of caliphate or Mongol invaders; I think Dr Google is giving you random articles to quote at once. The discoveries in all fields of life were before the Mongol invasions and after, oh and let’s not forget these very Mongols not shortly after as the barbarians they were became civilized accepted the faith they came to Attack and established a flourishing empire. Again had you known that you would consulted professor Google more adequately. Then You say “but between those who follows the Koran as well” That is doubted , show me a single verse which says go and kill men women and children , without no reason, willy nilly as you claim,” argument finished. So when you do reply rather then throw more red herrings let’s see your knowledge I know you will go to some random site copy and paste a mistranslated out of context verse maybe , ill happily comeback and show the true picture with great pleasure. Great marketing keep it up. Oh and what infighting as a result of the mongol invasions resulted in infighting until today, I think you just let one rip their lol.

On Mr Rushdie you had to admit whilst criticizing others that you haven’t even read his book, yet you defend him why? Oh because he attacked Islam, oh what great sense of justice and dignity your atheist mind of chance teaches you. BRAVO. POPE wrote “I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.” You say he apologized, was he apologizing for fiction?, will you stick to one line of argument,? Because it was planned he knew what he was doing. It’s really funny that freedom of speech has its limit to in the Law as you simply cannot talk about anything, read up on it. You say people were murdered as a result of a foreign fatwa, who was murdered; I’m just intrigued to know.

POPE WROTE: Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.”

Ok I challenge you to show me a single verse line or quote in our holy scripture which supports, random kidnappings, rape, murder, and that women are not equal to men, (we taught they are before anyone else, proud of it ). A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so. So once again I’m afraid this is another white lie. Oh and what religious places have you worked in I’m really interested. Because if this is your condition after having done so, what of the common man, writing article’s in the press,;).

ROY: You don’t need to wonder about what will happen to me, as that depends on my own deeds, worry about yourself, what will happen when your eyes shut, but then again open? What will your condition be oh Viking internet warrior? Maybe a confused look and a worry of what awaits. As for the Book it was revealed 1400 years ago, not 1500 not 1600, why do you comment on a fact you have no knowledge of, just marvels me.
Roy wrote, “Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?” Yes I can and I have no need to prove that to you or to post my personal information on a comment section of a newspaper, as if you are some kind of authority. I am not claiming descent from the Prophet (Pbuh), so stop making assumptions. Roy “Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?” Historians like yourself?. This is the most absurd and ridiculously stupid statement I ever read. Its pure gibberish coming out from your mouth now. There’s thousands of historians/ authors, muslim or non who have documented almost every aspect of the prophets life, his birth, his marriages, his children, his place of burial a great landmark today, his mission the great phenomena in the entire world as a result of his mission. There are people alive today going back father to son who met the prophet in their thousands, there are many legitimate descendants of the prophet alive today with well-known documented family trees to the Prophet recorded by the expert genealogists, from almost every century. What a few bigoted jealous racist minds think who gives a monkeys. Through almost every century after the Prophet each of his descendant’s were well known famous People. NO HUMAN LIFE IS AS DOCUMENTED FROM THE PAST AS THE PROPHET’S, AND THAT’S A CHALLENGE. HIS MIRACLE OF THE Quran compiled in his very life term preserved both through memory and writing by many many scribes in the Prophets lifetime, and the thousands of companions who saw him and recounted their experiences is undeniable evidence no Human life has as much evidence for existence as does the PROPHETS, so stop your dust bin jargon. To The POPEONALOTOFDOPE: I don’t need your approval for anything think as you wish, can’t be said any simpler. As for your sources, wow newspaper articles? Is this academic? Journalist that hail from an islamaphobic society just like you enjoy demonization of a people. Like I said show something from the constitution. Even so for arguments sake were talking of marriages, through legal guardian consent, not child single parent pregnancies we see in our very own society here in England. POPEONDADOPE: “There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now! "...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence” LOL Mr. academic you just contradicted yourself. First you make the assumption the prophet married a six year old based on a historical inaccurate report, Because that is all it is and I challenge you to show it in anything but a report in something you yourself said, POPEONDOPE “" Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”. To this I say “ duhhhhh” so it doesn’t constitute proof nor counter arguments, the hadith compilation is just stories compiled years after events, and unreliable yet you are the one trying to quote it, LoL genius , For your information, hadith is way far more complex and sophisticated for you to understand, every narrators life birth, death, whom he met, narrated from, is documented, every hadith has classification, strong , weak, reliable, acceptable etc., Hence why I pointed out what you mention is from a single narrator whom never met neither parties mentioned and for whom the biographers mention suffered from memory loss in old age , from where this story originates. IF you have common sense you would admit your flawed argument, in fact You shot your own foot here. By discrediting the very evidence you are presenting, CLASSIC. POPE wrote; “I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The Mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today" I didn’t even mention the decline of caliphate or Mongol invaders; I think Dr Google is giving you random articles to quote at once. The discoveries in all fields of life were before the Mongol invasions and after, oh and let’s not forget these very Mongols not shortly after as the barbarians they were became civilized accepted the faith they came to Attack and established a flourishing empire. Again had you known that you would consulted professor Google more adequately. Then You say “but between those who follows the Koran as well” That is doubted , show me a single verse which says go and kill men women and children , without no reason, willy nilly as you claim,” argument finished. So when you do reply rather then throw more red herrings let’s see your knowledge I know you will go to some random site copy and paste a mistranslated out of context verse maybe , ill happily comeback and show the true picture with great pleasure. Great marketing keep it up. Oh and what infighting as a result of the mongol invasions resulted in infighting until today, I think you just let one rip their lol. On Mr Rushdie you had to admit whilst criticizing others that you haven’t even read his book, yet you defend him why? Oh because he attacked Islam, oh what great sense of justice and dignity your atheist mind of chance teaches you. BRAVO. POPE wrote “I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.” You say he apologized, was he apologizing for fiction?, will you stick to one line of argument,? Because it was planned he knew what he was doing. It’s really funny that freedom of speech has its limit to in the Law as you simply cannot talk about anything, read up on it. You say people were murdered as a result of a foreign fatwa, who was murdered; I’m just intrigued to know. POPE WROTE: Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.” Ok I challenge you to show me a single verse line or quote in our holy scripture which supports, random kidnappings, rape, murder, and that women are not equal to men, (we taught they are before anyone else, proud of it ). A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so. So once again I’m afraid this is another white lie. Oh and what religious places have you worked in I’m really interested. Because if this is your condition after having done so, what of the common man, writing article’s in the press,;). ROY: You don’t need to wonder about what will happen to me, as that depends on my own deeds, worry about yourself, what will happen when your eyes shut, but then again open? What will your condition be oh Viking internet warrior? Maybe a confused look and a worry of what awaits. As for the Book it was revealed 1400 years ago, not 1500 not 1600, why do you comment on a fact you have no knowledge of, just marvels me. johnny_english1
  • Score: 3

4:47pm Sun 25 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Whether it was written 1400 years ago, rather than 1500-1600, doesn't prevent it from being superstitious medieval twaddle.

I wouldn't dream of working in any religious movement because I regard them all as a load of backward nonsense. I have, however, been in many churches and chapels because my ancestors were either Church of England or Nonconformists such as Methodists and Quakers and I like to look at their tombstones and find the records. I've only ever been in a Catholic church a couple of times and the stink of incense almost made me throw up. I've never been inside a synagogue or mosque and haven't the slightest desire to because both cultures are completely alien to me.
Whether it was written 1400 years ago, rather than 1500-1600, doesn't prevent it from being superstitious medieval twaddle. I wouldn't dream of working in any religious movement because I regard them all as a load of backward nonsense. I have, however, been in many churches and chapels because my ancestors were either Church of England or Nonconformists such as Methodists and Quakers and I like to look at their tombstones and find the records. I've only ever been in a Catholic church a couple of times and the stink of incense almost made me throw up. I've never been inside a synagogue or mosque and haven't the slightest desire to because both cultures are completely alien to me. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

10:39pm Mon 26 May 14

Popeonarope says...

johnny_english1 wrote:
Roy wrote, “Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?”

Yes I can and I have no need to prove that to you or to post my personal information on a comment section of a newspaper, as if you are some kind of authority. I am not claiming descent from the Prophet (Pbuh), so stop making assumptions.

Roy “Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?”

Historians like yourself?. This is the most absurd and ridiculously stupid statement I ever read. Its pure gibberish coming out from your mouth now. There’s thousands of historians/ authors, muslim or non who have documented almost every aspect of the prophets life, his birth, his marriages, his children, his place of burial a great landmark today, his mission the great phenomena in the entire world as a result of his mission. There are people alive today going back father to son who met the prophet in their thousands, there are many legitimate descendants of the prophet alive today with well-known documented family trees to the Prophet recorded by the expert genealogists, from almost every century. What a few bigoted jealous racist minds think who gives a monkeys. Through almost every century after the Prophet each of his descendant’s were well known famous People. NO HUMAN LIFE IS AS DOCUMENTED FROM THE PAST AS THE PROPHET’S, AND THAT’S A CHALLENGE. HIS MIRACLE OF THE Quran compiled in his very life term preserved both through memory and writing by many many scribes in the Prophets lifetime, and the thousands of companions who saw him and recounted their experiences is undeniable evidence no Human life has as much evidence for existence as does the PROPHETS, so stop your dust bin jargon.

To The POPEONALOTOFDOPE: I don’t need your approval for anything think as you wish, can’t be said any simpler. As for your sources, wow newspaper articles? Is this academic? Journalist that hail from an islamaphobic society just like you enjoy demonization of a people. Like I said show something from the constitution. Even so for arguments sake were talking of marriages, through legal guardian consent, not child single parent pregnancies we see in our very own society here in England.

POPEONDADOPE: “There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now!
&quot;...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”

LOL Mr. academic you just contradicted yourself. First you make the assumption the prophet married a six year old based on a historical inaccurate report, Because that is all it is and I challenge you to show it in anything but a report in something you yourself said, POPEONDOPE “" Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”.

To this I say “ duhhhhh” so it doesn’t constitute proof nor counter arguments, the hadith compilation is just stories compiled years after events, and unreliable yet you are the one trying to quote it, LoL genius , For your information, hadith is way far more complex and sophisticated for you to understand, every narrators life birth, death, whom he met, narrated from, is documented, every hadith has classification, strong , weak, reliable, acceptable etc., Hence why I pointed out what you mention is from a single narrator whom never met neither parties mentioned and for whom the biographers mention suffered from memory loss in old age , from where this story originates. IF you have common sense you would admit your flawed argument, in fact You shot your own foot here. By discrediting the very evidence you are presenting, CLASSIC.

POPE wrote; “I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The Mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today"

I didn’t even mention the decline of caliphate or Mongol invaders; I think Dr Google is giving you random articles to quote at once. The discoveries in all fields of life were before the Mongol invasions and after, oh and let’s not forget these very Mongols not shortly after as the barbarians they were became civilized accepted the faith they came to Attack and established a flourishing empire. Again had you known that you would consulted professor Google more adequately. Then You say “but between those who follows the Koran as well” That is doubted , show me a single verse which says go and kill men women and children , without no reason, willy nilly as you claim,” argument finished. So when you do reply rather then throw more red herrings let’s see your knowledge I know you will go to some random site copy and paste a mistranslated out of context verse maybe , ill happily comeback and show the true picture with great pleasure. Great marketing keep it up. Oh and what infighting as a result of the mongol invasions resulted in infighting until today, I think you just let one rip their lol.

On Mr Rushdie you had to admit whilst criticizing others that you haven’t even read his book, yet you defend him why? Oh because he attacked Islam, oh what great sense of justice and dignity your atheist mind of chance teaches you. BRAVO. POPE wrote “I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.” You say he apologized, was he apologizing for fiction?, will you stick to one line of argument,? Because it was planned he knew what he was doing. It’s really funny that freedom of speech has its limit to in the Law as you simply cannot talk about anything, read up on it. You say people were murdered as a result of a foreign fatwa, who was murdered; I’m just intrigued to know.

POPE WROTE: Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.”

Ok I challenge you to show me a single verse line or quote in our holy scripture which supports, random kidnappings, rape, murder, and that women are not equal to men, (we taught they are before anyone else, proud of it ). A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so. So once again I’m afraid this is another white lie. Oh and what religious places have you worked in I’m really interested. Because if this is your condition after having done so, what of the common man, writing article’s in the press,;).

ROY: You don’t need to wonder about what will happen to me, as that depends on my own deeds, worry about yourself, what will happen when your eyes shut, but then again open? What will your condition be oh Viking internet warrior? Maybe a confused look and a worry of what awaits. As for the Book it was revealed 1400 years ago, not 1500 not 1600, why do you comment on a fact you have no knowledge of, just marvels me.
So much for being civil. You lost me the moment you start argument based on what is written in the book that we have already stated was man made and therefore flawed. Try thinking for yourself for once.
"A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so"
Of course religion is more prevalent in poverty stricken countries, don't be so naive. Religion has ALWAYS taken advantage of people when they are vulnerable. Get your hooks into them and they are more open to the lies and misinformation that comes with the control, tyranny and intimidation.
Salman Rushdie apologized for the insult caused, for writing a piece of fiction. He was advised to do so because the totalitarian, violent, fanatic zealots of your faith were going to kill him.
I dont speak or read Arabic so am unable even if i wanted to read the Koran. The actions of many of your followers is more than enough demonstration of the contents within, but then i dont need to read it to know that it is a very insecure, self righteous and xenophobic faith that suffers from the greatest failing of presumed infallibility. All religion is man made, it is the only explanation for the many religions in the world.
The murders, executions, suicide bombings, carried out against fellow human beings are being done in the name of Islam by Muslims who read the same book as you. Now this nonsense is in my country and Muslims are murdering soldiers on the streets in London by cutting their heads off in front of women and children! Without going into the vast other list of atrocities carried out by your fellow zealots in the name of your religion and the consequence is that i have to believe that your religion is a blight on society, not only for your blinkered and arrogant regard for everyone else but for future generations that will have to deal with your overbearing demands and potential for violence.
The Muslim counties i have worked in are UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Turkey and Syria, before they all started killing each other.
As for women being equal to men in your religion, i have seen to much for that to be considered anything but a blatant lie from a brainwashed fool; there are too many documented occurrences of inequality in this country alone for you to deny it.
"Traditional sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina..."
Yes, its from Google so i guess you will say its not true so explain her real age then as six or nine is disgusting in any argument.

Peace out, though i doubt it.
[quote][p][bold]johnny_english1[/bold] wrote: Roy wrote, “Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?” Yes I can and I have no need to prove that to you or to post my personal information on a comment section of a newspaper, as if you are some kind of authority. I am not claiming descent from the Prophet (Pbuh), so stop making assumptions. Roy “Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?” Historians like yourself?. This is the most absurd and ridiculously stupid statement I ever read. Its pure gibberish coming out from your mouth now. There’s thousands of historians/ authors, muslim or non who have documented almost every aspect of the prophets life, his birth, his marriages, his children, his place of burial a great landmark today, his mission the great phenomena in the entire world as a result of his mission. There are people alive today going back father to son who met the prophet in their thousands, there are many legitimate descendants of the prophet alive today with well-known documented family trees to the Prophet recorded by the expert genealogists, from almost every century. What a few bigoted jealous racist minds think who gives a monkeys. Through almost every century after the Prophet each of his descendant’s were well known famous People. NO HUMAN LIFE IS AS DOCUMENTED FROM THE PAST AS THE PROPHET’S, AND THAT’S A CHALLENGE. HIS MIRACLE OF THE Quran compiled in his very life term preserved both through memory and writing by many many scribes in the Prophets lifetime, and the thousands of companions who saw him and recounted their experiences is undeniable evidence no Human life has as much evidence for existence as does the PROPHETS, so stop your dust bin jargon. To The POPEONALOTOFDOPE: I don’t need your approval for anything think as you wish, can’t be said any simpler. As for your sources, wow newspaper articles? Is this academic? Journalist that hail from an islamaphobic society just like you enjoy demonization of a people. Like I said show something from the constitution. Even so for arguments sake were talking of marriages, through legal guardian consent, not child single parent pregnancies we see in our very own society here in England. POPEONDADOPE: “There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now! "...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence” LOL Mr. academic you just contradicted yourself. First you make the assumption the prophet married a six year old based on a historical inaccurate report, Because that is all it is and I challenge you to show it in anything but a report in something you yourself said, POPEONDOPE “" Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”. To this I say “ duhhhhh” so it doesn’t constitute proof nor counter arguments, the hadith compilation is just stories compiled years after events, and unreliable yet you are the one trying to quote it, LoL genius , For your information, hadith is way far more complex and sophisticated for you to understand, every narrators life birth, death, whom he met, narrated from, is documented, every hadith has classification, strong , weak, reliable, acceptable etc., Hence why I pointed out what you mention is from a single narrator whom never met neither parties mentioned and for whom the biographers mention suffered from memory loss in old age , from where this story originates. IF you have common sense you would admit your flawed argument, in fact You shot your own foot here. By discrediting the very evidence you are presenting, CLASSIC. POPE wrote; “I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The Mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today" I didn’t even mention the decline of caliphate or Mongol invaders; I think Dr Google is giving you random articles to quote at once. The discoveries in all fields of life were before the Mongol invasions and after, oh and let’s not forget these very Mongols not shortly after as the barbarians they were became civilized accepted the faith they came to Attack and established a flourishing empire. Again had you known that you would consulted professor Google more adequately. Then You say “but between those who follows the Koran as well” That is doubted , show me a single verse which says go and kill men women and children , without no reason, willy nilly as you claim,” argument finished. So when you do reply rather then throw more red herrings let’s see your knowledge I know you will go to some random site copy and paste a mistranslated out of context verse maybe , ill happily comeback and show the true picture with great pleasure. Great marketing keep it up. Oh and what infighting as a result of the mongol invasions resulted in infighting until today, I think you just let one rip their lol. On Mr Rushdie you had to admit whilst criticizing others that you haven’t even read his book, yet you defend him why? Oh because he attacked Islam, oh what great sense of justice and dignity your atheist mind of chance teaches you. BRAVO. POPE wrote “I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.” You say he apologized, was he apologizing for fiction?, will you stick to one line of argument,? Because it was planned he knew what he was doing. It’s really funny that freedom of speech has its limit to in the Law as you simply cannot talk about anything, read up on it. You say people were murdered as a result of a foreign fatwa, who was murdered; I’m just intrigued to know. POPE WROTE: Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.” Ok I challenge you to show me a single verse line or quote in our holy scripture which supports, random kidnappings, rape, murder, and that women are not equal to men, (we taught they are before anyone else, proud of it ). A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so. So once again I’m afraid this is another white lie. Oh and what religious places have you worked in I’m really interested. Because if this is your condition after having done so, what of the common man, writing article’s in the press,;). ROY: You don’t need to wonder about what will happen to me, as that depends on my own deeds, worry about yourself, what will happen when your eyes shut, but then again open? What will your condition be oh Viking internet warrior? Maybe a confused look and a worry of what awaits. As for the Book it was revealed 1400 years ago, not 1500 not 1600, why do you comment on a fact you have no knowledge of, just marvels me.[/p][/quote]So much for being civil. You lost me the moment you start argument based on what is written in the book that we have already stated was man made and therefore flawed. Try thinking for yourself for once. "A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so" Of course religion is more prevalent in poverty stricken countries, don't be so naive. Religion has ALWAYS taken advantage of people when they are vulnerable. Get your hooks into them and they are more open to the lies and misinformation that comes with the control, tyranny and intimidation. Salman Rushdie apologized for the insult caused, for writing a piece of fiction. He was advised to do so because the totalitarian, violent, fanatic zealots of your faith were going to kill him. I dont speak or read Arabic so am unable even if i wanted to read the Koran. The actions of many of your followers is more than enough demonstration of the contents within, but then i dont need to read it to know that it is a very insecure, self righteous and xenophobic faith that suffers from the greatest failing of presumed infallibility. All religion is man made, it is the only explanation for the many religions in the world. The murders, executions, suicide bombings, carried out against fellow human beings are being done in the name of Islam by Muslims who read the same book as you. Now this nonsense is in my country and Muslims are murdering soldiers on the streets in London by cutting their heads off in front of women and children! Without going into the vast other list of atrocities carried out by your fellow zealots in the name of your religion and the consequence is that i have to believe that your religion is a blight on society, not only for your blinkered and arrogant regard for everyone else but for future generations that will have to deal with your overbearing demands and potential for violence. The Muslim counties i have worked in are UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Turkey and Syria, before they all started killing each other. As for women being equal to men in your religion, i have seen to much for that to be considered anything but a blatant lie from a brainwashed fool; there are too many documented occurrences of inequality in this country alone for you to deny it. "Traditional sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina..." Yes, its from Google so i guess you will say its not true so explain her real age then as six or nine is disgusting in any argument. Peace out, though i doubt it. Popeonarope
  • Score: 1

10:50pm Mon 26 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Well said, Popeonaraope! Muslims are simply backward and medieval.
Well said, Popeonaraope! Muslims are simply backward and medieval. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

12:56am Tue 27 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

Popeonarope wrote:
johnny_english1 wrote:
Roy wrote, “Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?”

Yes I can and I have no need to prove that to you or to post my personal information on a comment section of a newspaper, as if you are some kind of authority. I am not claiming descent from the Prophet (Pbuh), so stop making assumptions.

Roy “Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?”

Historians like yourself?. This is the most absurd and ridiculously stupid statement I ever read. Its pure gibberish coming out from your mouth now. There’s thousands of historians/ authors, muslim or non who have documented almost every aspect of the prophets life, his birth, his marriages, his children, his place of burial a great landmark today, his mission the great phenomena in the entire world as a result of his mission. There are people alive today going back father to son who met the prophet in their thousands, there are many legitimate descendants of the prophet alive today with well-known documented family trees to the Prophet recorded by the expert genealogists, from almost every century. What a few bigoted jealous racist minds think who gives a monkeys. Through almost every century after the Prophet each of his descendant’s were well known famous People. NO HUMAN LIFE IS AS DOCUMENTED FROM THE PAST AS THE PROPHET’S, AND THAT’S A CHALLENGE. HIS MIRACLE OF THE Quran compiled in his very life term preserved both through memory and writing by many many scribes in the Prophets lifetime, and the thousands of companions who saw him and recounted their experiences is undeniable evidence no Human life has as much evidence for existence as does the PROPHETS, so stop your dust bin jargon.

To The POPEONALOTOFDOPE: I don’t need your approval for anything think as you wish, can’t be said any simpler. As for your sources, wow newspaper articles? Is this academic? Journalist that hail from an islamaphobic society just like you enjoy demonization of a people. Like I said show something from the constitution. Even so for arguments sake were talking of marriages, through legal guardian consent, not child single parent pregnancies we see in our very own society here in England.

POPEONDADOPE: “There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now!
&quot;...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”

LOL Mr. academic you just contradicted yourself. First you make the assumption the prophet married a six year old based on a historical inaccurate report, Because that is all it is and I challenge you to show it in anything but a report in something you yourself said, POPEONDOPE “" Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”.

To this I say “ duhhhhh” so it doesn’t constitute proof nor counter arguments, the hadith compilation is just stories compiled years after events, and unreliable yet you are the one trying to quote it, LoL genius , For your information, hadith is way far more complex and sophisticated for you to understand, every narrators life birth, death, whom he met, narrated from, is documented, every hadith has classification, strong , weak, reliable, acceptable etc., Hence why I pointed out what you mention is from a single narrator whom never met neither parties mentioned and for whom the biographers mention suffered from memory loss in old age , from where this story originates. IF you have common sense you would admit your flawed argument, in fact You shot your own foot here. By discrediting the very evidence you are presenting, CLASSIC.

POPE wrote; “I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The Mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today"

I didn’t even mention the decline of caliphate or Mongol invaders; I think Dr Google is giving you random articles to quote at once. The discoveries in all fields of life were before the Mongol invasions and after, oh and let’s not forget these very Mongols not shortly after as the barbarians they were became civilized accepted the faith they came to Attack and established a flourishing empire. Again had you known that you would consulted professor Google more adequately. Then You say “but between those who follows the Koran as well” That is doubted , show me a single verse which says go and kill men women and children , without no reason, willy nilly as you claim,” argument finished. So when you do reply rather then throw more red herrings let’s see your knowledge I know you will go to some random site copy and paste a mistranslated out of context verse maybe , ill happily comeback and show the true picture with great pleasure. Great marketing keep it up. Oh and what infighting as a result of the mongol invasions resulted in infighting until today, I think you just let one rip their lol.

On Mr Rushdie you had to admit whilst criticizing others that you haven’t even read his book, yet you defend him why? Oh because he attacked Islam, oh what great sense of justice and dignity your atheist mind of chance teaches you. BRAVO. POPE wrote “I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.” You say he apologized, was he apologizing for fiction?, will you stick to one line of argument,? Because it was planned he knew what he was doing. It’s really funny that freedom of speech has its limit to in the Law as you simply cannot talk about anything, read up on it. You say people were murdered as a result of a foreign fatwa, who was murdered; I’m just intrigued to know.

POPE WROTE: Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.”

Ok I challenge you to show me a single verse line or quote in our holy scripture which supports, random kidnappings, rape, murder, and that women are not equal to men, (we taught they are before anyone else, proud of it ). A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so. So once again I’m afraid this is another white lie. Oh and what religious places have you worked in I’m really interested. Because if this is your condition after having done so, what of the common man, writing article’s in the press,;).

ROY: You don’t need to wonder about what will happen to me, as that depends on my own deeds, worry about yourself, what will happen when your eyes shut, but then again open? What will your condition be oh Viking internet warrior? Maybe a confused look and a worry of what awaits. As for the Book it was revealed 1400 years ago, not 1500 not 1600, why do you comment on a fact you have no knowledge of, just marvels me.
So much for being civil. You lost me the moment you start argument based on what is written in the book that we have already stated was man made and therefore flawed. Try thinking for yourself for once.
"A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so"
Of course religion is more prevalent in poverty stricken countries, don't be so naive. Religion has ALWAYS taken advantage of people when they are vulnerable. Get your hooks into them and they are more open to the lies and misinformation that comes with the control, tyranny and intimidation.
Salman Rushdie apologized for the insult caused, for writing a piece of fiction. He was advised to do so because the totalitarian, violent, fanatic zealots of your faith were going to kill him.
I dont speak or read Arabic so am unable even if i wanted to read the Koran. The actions of many of your followers is more than enough demonstration of the contents within, but then i dont need to read it to know that it is a very insecure, self righteous and xenophobic faith that suffers from the greatest failing of presumed infallibility. All religion is man made, it is the only explanation for the many religions in the world.
The murders, executions, suicide bombings, carried out against fellow human beings are being done in the name of Islam by Muslims who read the same book as you. Now this nonsense is in my country and Muslims are murdering soldiers on the streets in London by cutting their heads off in front of women and children! Without going into the vast other list of atrocities carried out by your fellow zealots in the name of your religion and the consequence is that i have to believe that your religion is a blight on society, not only for your blinkered and arrogant regard for everyone else but for future generations that will have to deal with your overbearing demands and potential for violence.
The Muslim counties i have worked in are UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Turkey and Syria, before they all started killing each other.
As for women being equal to men in your religion, i have seen to much for that to be considered anything but a blatant lie from a brainwashed fool; there are too many documented occurrences of inequality in this country alone for you to deny it.
"Traditional sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina..."
Yes, its from Google so i guess you will say its not true so explain her real age then as six or nine is disgusting in any argument.

Peace out, though i doubt it.
Either you are completely stupid, or it is true that those posters we used to see a while back on billboards depicting the size of a pea sized brain that to be of a racist fascist. After a very long Google search you come back throw some questions then I give answers and your myth gets blown apart, then rather than admit that you was talking crap, You come back with the same jargon from another angle without ever answering the questions addressed to you. You seem to be applying I quoted bible to you, or other scripture I did not. In Your blind arrogance you can’t even read properly which is evident to any neutral observer here.

1) Regarding the prophets marriage, I showed you how it’s from hadith, written much after him by a narrator who never met any of the parties involved, whom the biographers of the narrators, a complex science to explain to you on a comment section, deemed weak in memory. Not forgetting that you also termed this very hadith system as flawed according to you and unreliable yet you are using it to criticize what suits you. I pointed that Hypocrisy out to you, as usual run and don't answer. I also showed you that Young marriages happened not so long ago in the entire western world, even England were it was a norm and you are referring to a time further back from a hundred years or so when it happened in England. Then I also told you that not a single known objection was ever raised by any person at the time be he, Christian Jew or pagan, of the communities that lived in Arabia at the time, showing that nothing against the norm was done. Again in reply no counter just silence. I also pointed out a fact it was marriage initiated by the ladies parents, and she always remained a faithful wife never married another man. I showed you a reality of today of your own atheist society, were you have girls as young as that getting pregnant with at times they don't remember by whom. What would your answer be to this oh civilised one?

2)Age of consent You showed newspaper articles as your research, LOL , I asked for a ruling from the constitution of Iran You was attacking based upon Your abundant ignorance and then I showed you the comparison in our cherished british society here, but again no reply.

3) Women’s rights, I rightfully pointed out, we gave women’s rights they enjoy today 1400 years ago, I was hoping for you to contradict that, show some evidence, again nothing in reply.

THEINFAMOUSPOPEONALO
TOFDOPE, WROTE “Of course religion is more prevalent in poverty stricken countries, don't be so naive. Religion has ALWAYS taken advantage of people when they are vulnerable.”

I can’t speak for everyone just my own faith, and I gave you a simple scenario that in order to point a finger at a faith you must show that its doctrine teaches so, Which after many times having asked you to show just one example shows that You are not any objective person but just someone reading online rubbish without any evidence and trying to lecture here pathetically. What a fool you are do you have any idea how vast faith or religion is expanding in the west, in Europe USA and UK, I think you are totally unaware and hence it’s why you make absurd statements.

Pope wrote: .” Salman Rushdie apologized for the insult caused, for writing a piece of fiction. He was advised to do so because the totalitarian, violent, fanatic zealots of your faith were going to kill him.”

HE knows he wrote a load of cr*P hate material, I think he is responsible for his own actions. I also pointed out that you don’t even know what he wrote or about what yet you comment on it like your some expert, so for the last time either educate yourself on the subject, or stop blowing your own trumpet.

Popeondadope wrote “I dont speak or read Arabic so am unable even if i wanted to read the Koran. The actions of many of your followers is more than enough demonstration of the contents within, but then i don’t need to read it to know that it is a very insecure, self-righteous and xenophobic faith that suffers from the greatest failing of presumed infallibility.”

The Quran is translated into many world languages, including many times into English, so here you are again criticizing a Pure Book you have never read, how on earth do you write the bs that you do without any backing proof or evidence its just amazes me. Oh and I don’t have any followers lol, well its not Muslims that are going around bombing the world or attacking sovereign nations, there’s a lot of facts that can be pointed out about your atheist society, but I don’t believe in tit for tat, and the actions of a few cannot be thrown at a people as a whole. I aint the one who sounds insecure here or we for that matter, in fact it’s great because ignorant people like you raise some questions based on nothing, people like me absolutely demolish your lies, and some objective observer discovers the truth, absolutely marvelous if you ask me.

POPE wrote, “Muslims who read the same book as you.” Like I said show me what they are reading and what promotes what you are accusing me of, but you can never show because it doesn’t exist, and you haven’t even read it. Again how on earth can you say that people who do such evil do so because they are instructed to do so?, Where I am openly saying there is no such instruction and no such writing. But you still persist, just like a brainwashed individual. The Soldiers murder was condemned by everyone and those two fruitcakes did it as a political statement they themselves claimed, not based on religion, It was a shameful disgusting thing to do, and absolutely evil, for whatever reason,. I say faith absolutely does not teach this.

Pope wrote: “As for women being equal to men in your religion, i have seen to much for that to be considered anything but a blatant lie from a brainwashed fool; there are too many documented occurrences of inequality in this country alone for you to deny it.”

What have you seen, and maybe your experience are based upon the way you live your life which I might find abhorrent , as you think of mine. In your last post you mentioned something about being to strict, I asked you strict to whom you or me? You never replied, what is this inequliaty, but I pointed out to you and it is free to see all around you that yearly tens of thousands of women in the west from all professional walks of life are freely adopting Islam, leaving your atheist society, it’s the fastest growing faith even amongst women, why is that? Isn’t that completely contradicting yourself made assessments, or maybe you’re not a woman so you probably dont understand. Portraying women as sex objects, thinking they get raped “ cos they asked for it “as western society teaches here, a rampant sex industry, an established page 3 and **** industry, oh this is liberation for you?.

POPE wrote: “"Traditional sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina..."
Yes, its from Google so i guess you will say its not true so explain her real age”

Lastly I have already explained this above refer to my earlier post and the beginning of this one, It is not traditional sources, it is just ONE REPORT, compiled a few hundred Years after the Prophet’s life. By a single narrator known to be suffering from weak memory who never met any of the parties involved. The age was by the same narrator is given as 6, then 9 and in one as 11. All by the same narrator who contradicts himself, or as rightfully pointed out the 9 was actually 19 but due to his weak memory narrated it as 9. But neither of these is accurate because it is well established from more reliable historical acounts and undeniable evidence that she was 19 and a fully grown woman, the sources are far to many to list here. And let’s not forget my earlier point you yourself criticized the method of such reporting yet you try and use it against me, isn’t this double standards or hypocrisy quite simply. There you go boy there was no need to doubt at all. So if you do reply address what we already discussed or leave it , because your boring me.
[quote][p][bold]Popeonarope[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]johnny_english1[/bold] wrote: Roy wrote, “Can you actually trace your ancestry back 15 centuries with serious documentary evidence or are you just claiming to be descended from Mohammed and all that s***?” Yes I can and I have no need to prove that to you or to post my personal information on a comment section of a newspaper, as if you are some kind of authority. I am not claiming descent from the Prophet (Pbuh), so stop making assumptions. Roy “Don't you know that there are many serious western historians who dispute that Mohammed (however you spell it) ever existed at all?” Historians like yourself?. This is the most absurd and ridiculously stupid statement I ever read. Its pure gibberish coming out from your mouth now. There’s thousands of historians/ authors, muslim or non who have documented almost every aspect of the prophets life, his birth, his marriages, his children, his place of burial a great landmark today, his mission the great phenomena in the entire world as a result of his mission. There are people alive today going back father to son who met the prophet in their thousands, there are many legitimate descendants of the prophet alive today with well-known documented family trees to the Prophet recorded by the expert genealogists, from almost every century. What a few bigoted jealous racist minds think who gives a monkeys. Through almost every century after the Prophet each of his descendant’s were well known famous People. NO HUMAN LIFE IS AS DOCUMENTED FROM THE PAST AS THE PROPHET’S, AND THAT’S A CHALLENGE. HIS MIRACLE OF THE Quran compiled in his very life term preserved both through memory and writing by many many scribes in the Prophets lifetime, and the thousands of companions who saw him and recounted their experiences is undeniable evidence no Human life has as much evidence for existence as does the PROPHETS, so stop your dust bin jargon. To The POPEONALOTOFDOPE: I don’t need your approval for anything think as you wish, can’t be said any simpler. As for your sources, wow newspaper articles? Is this academic? Journalist that hail from an islamaphobic society just like you enjoy demonization of a people. Like I said show something from the constitution. Even so for arguments sake were talking of marriages, through legal guardian consent, not child single parent pregnancies we see in our very own society here in England. POPEONDADOPE: “There is no shortage of this available online and while i am sure all moderate Muslims feel the same abhorrence at what is reported, the reason and excuse for it among tribal groups comes from your prophets marrying a six year old in the 7th century and therefore its alright now! "...we have a complete science of narration in hadith..." Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence” LOL Mr. academic you just contradicted yourself. First you make the assumption the prophet married a six year old based on a historical inaccurate report, Because that is all it is and I challenge you to show it in anything but a report in something you yourself said, POPEONDOPE “" Does not constitute proof and raising counter arguments from the bible cuts no ice. The hadith is a collection of stories compiled years after the events by multiple contributors and are therefore unreliable as any kind of proof or evidence”. To this I say “ duhhhhh” so it doesn’t constitute proof nor counter arguments, the hadith compilation is just stories compiled years after events, and unreliable yet you are the one trying to quote it, LoL genius , For your information, hadith is way far more complex and sophisticated for you to understand, every narrators life birth, death, whom he met, narrated from, is documented, every hadith has classification, strong , weak, reliable, acceptable etc., Hence why I pointed out what you mention is from a single narrator whom never met neither parties mentioned and for whom the biographers mention suffered from memory loss in old age , from where this story originates. IF you have common sense you would admit your flawed argument, in fact You shot your own foot here. By discrediting the very evidence you are presenting, CLASSIC. POPE wrote; “I am not sure i understand what you are saying about the decline of science and reason under the caliphate? The Mongol invaders ransacked Baghdad in 1258 and the subsequent infighting between the factions resulted in deep divides still seen today" I didn’t even mention the decline of caliphate or Mongol invaders; I think Dr Google is giving you random articles to quote at once. The discoveries in all fields of life were before the Mongol invasions and after, oh and let’s not forget these very Mongols not shortly after as the barbarians they were became civilized accepted the faith they came to Attack and established a flourishing empire. Again had you known that you would consulted professor Google more adequately. Then You say “but between those who follows the Koran as well” That is doubted , show me a single verse which says go and kill men women and children , without no reason, willy nilly as you claim,” argument finished. So when you do reply rather then throw more red herrings let’s see your knowledge I know you will go to some random site copy and paste a mistranslated out of context verse maybe , ill happily comeback and show the true picture with great pleasure. Great marketing keep it up. Oh and what infighting as a result of the mongol invasions resulted in infighting until today, I think you just let one rip their lol. On Mr Rushdie you had to admit whilst criticizing others that you haven’t even read his book, yet you defend him why? Oh because he attacked Islam, oh what great sense of justice and dignity your atheist mind of chance teaches you. BRAVO. POPE wrote “I tied to read it a few years ago but lost interest part way through as i found it quite dull.” You say he apologized, was he apologizing for fiction?, will you stick to one line of argument,? Because it was planned he knew what he was doing. It’s really funny that freedom of speech has its limit to in the Law as you simply cannot talk about anything, read up on it. You say people were murdered as a result of a foreign fatwa, who was murdered; I’m just intrigued to know. POPE WROTE: Many of the crimes in society come from social and environmental failures in making people aware of each others rights to respect and freedom. Others come from religious teachings that give permission to act as they want as a higher authority allows them to do as they want. The groomers were bad men, i understand that and probably were not considered Muslims by their peers but the way they targeted and abused these women shows a terrible lack of respect for women that seems to fit with what i have seen in the very religious places i have worked in.Until all women are given the respect they deserve as human beings and empowered to choose their own fates, have access to equal education and freedom from servitude nothing will change. Religion is the prime reason why this does not happen and Islam is at the top of that list. Maybe not so much in this country but without any doubt in Asian and African countries and in the Middle East much needs to change.” Ok I challenge you to show me a single verse line or quote in our holy scripture which supports, random kidnappings, rape, murder, and that women are not equal to men, (we taught they are before anyone else, proud of it ). A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so. So once again I’m afraid this is another white lie. Oh and what religious places have you worked in I’m really interested. Because if this is your condition after having done so, what of the common man, writing article’s in the press,;). ROY: You don’t need to wonder about what will happen to me, as that depends on my own deeds, worry about yourself, what will happen when your eyes shut, but then again open? What will your condition be oh Viking internet warrior? Maybe a confused look and a worry of what awaits. As for the Book it was revealed 1400 years ago, not 1500 not 1600, why do you comment on a fact you have no knowledge of, just marvels me.[/p][/quote]So much for being civil. You lost me the moment you start argument based on what is written in the book that we have already stated was man made and therefore flawed. Try thinking for yourself for once. "A Miracle in itself Both man and women are addressed in The Quran Equally the same number of times, Yes 1400 years ago. You are criticizing culture and in poverty stricken countries, it has nothing to do with faith, or religion, You would only have such an argument if doctrine taught so" Of course religion is more prevalent in poverty stricken countries, don't be so naive. Religion has ALWAYS taken advantage of people when they are vulnerable. Get your hooks into them and they are more open to the lies and misinformation that comes with the control, tyranny and intimidation. Salman Rushdie apologized for the insult caused, for writing a piece of fiction. He was advised to do so because the totalitarian, violent, fanatic zealots of your faith were going to kill him. I dont speak or read Arabic so am unable even if i wanted to read the Koran. The actions of many of your followers is more than enough demonstration of the contents within, but then i dont need to read it to know that it is a very insecure, self righteous and xenophobic faith that suffers from the greatest failing of presumed infallibility. All religion is man made, it is the only explanation for the many religions in the world. The murders, executions, suicide bombings, carried out against fellow human beings are being done in the name of Islam by Muslims who read the same book as you. Now this nonsense is in my country and Muslims are murdering soldiers on the streets in London by cutting their heads off in front of women and children! Without going into the vast other list of atrocities carried out by your fellow zealots in the name of your religion and the consequence is that i have to believe that your religion is a blight on society, not only for your blinkered and arrogant regard for everyone else but for future generations that will have to deal with your overbearing demands and potential for violence. The Muslim counties i have worked in are UAE, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Turkey and Syria, before they all started killing each other. As for women being equal to men in your religion, i have seen to much for that to be considered anything but a blatant lie from a brainwashed fool; there are too many documented occurrences of inequality in this country alone for you to deny it. "Traditional sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina..." Yes, its from Google so i guess you will say its not true so explain her real age then as six or nine is disgusting in any argument. Peace out, though i doubt it.[/p][/quote]Either you are completely stupid, or it is true that those posters we used to see a while back on billboards depicting the size of a pea sized brain that to be of a racist fascist. After a very long Google search you come back throw some questions then I give answers and your myth gets blown apart, then rather than admit that you was talking crap, You come back with the same jargon from another angle without ever answering the questions addressed to you. You seem to be applying I quoted bible to you, or other scripture I did not. In Your blind arrogance you can’t even read properly which is evident to any neutral observer here. 1) Regarding the prophets marriage, I showed you how it’s from hadith, written much after him by a narrator who never met any of the parties involved, whom the biographers of the narrators, a complex science to explain to you on a comment section, deemed weak in memory. Not forgetting that you also termed this very hadith system as flawed according to you and unreliable yet you are using it to criticize what suits you. I pointed that Hypocrisy out to you, as usual run and don't answer. I also showed you that Young marriages happened not so long ago in the entire western world, even England were it was a norm and you are referring to a time further back from a hundred years or so when it happened in England. Then I also told you that not a single known objection was ever raised by any person at the time be he, Christian Jew or pagan, of the communities that lived in Arabia at the time, showing that nothing against the norm was done. Again in reply no counter just silence. I also pointed out a fact it was marriage initiated by the ladies parents, and she always remained a faithful wife never married another man. I showed you a reality of today of your own atheist society, were you have girls as young as that getting pregnant with at times they don't remember by whom. What would your answer be to this oh civilised one? 2)Age of consent You showed newspaper articles as your research, LOL , I asked for a ruling from the constitution of Iran You was attacking based upon Your abundant ignorance and then I showed you the comparison in our cherished british society here, but again no reply. 3) Women’s rights, I rightfully pointed out, we gave women’s rights they enjoy today 1400 years ago, I was hoping for you to contradict that, show some evidence, again nothing in reply. THEINFAMOUSPOPEONALO TOFDOPE, WROTE “Of course religion is more prevalent in poverty stricken countries, don't be so naive. Religion has ALWAYS taken advantage of people when they are vulnerable.” I can’t speak for everyone just my own faith, and I gave you a simple scenario that in order to point a finger at a faith you must show that its doctrine teaches so, Which after many times having asked you to show just one example shows that You are not any objective person but just someone reading online rubbish without any evidence and trying to lecture here pathetically. What a fool you are do you have any idea how vast faith or religion is expanding in the west, in Europe USA and UK, I think you are totally unaware and hence it’s why you make absurd statements. Pope wrote: .” Salman Rushdie apologized for the insult caused, for writing a piece of fiction. He was advised to do so because the totalitarian, violent, fanatic zealots of your faith were going to kill him.” HE knows he wrote a load of cr*P hate material, I think he is responsible for his own actions. I also pointed out that you don’t even know what he wrote or about what yet you comment on it like your some expert, so for the last time either educate yourself on the subject, or stop blowing your own trumpet. Popeondadope wrote “I dont speak or read Arabic so am unable even if i wanted to read the Koran. The actions of many of your followers is more than enough demonstration of the contents within, but then i don’t need to read it to know that it is a very insecure, self-righteous and xenophobic faith that suffers from the greatest failing of presumed infallibility.” The Quran is translated into many world languages, including many times into English, so here you are again criticizing a Pure Book you have never read, how on earth do you write the bs that you do without any backing proof or evidence its just amazes me. Oh and I don’t have any followers lol, well its not Muslims that are going around bombing the world or attacking sovereign nations, there’s a lot of facts that can be pointed out about your atheist society, but I don’t believe in tit for tat, and the actions of a few cannot be thrown at a people as a whole. I aint the one who sounds insecure here or we for that matter, in fact it’s great because ignorant people like you raise some questions based on nothing, people like me absolutely demolish your lies, and some objective observer discovers the truth, absolutely marvelous if you ask me. POPE wrote, “Muslims who read the same book as you.” Like I said show me what they are reading and what promotes what you are accusing me of, but you can never show because it doesn’t exist, and you haven’t even read it. Again how on earth can you say that people who do such evil do so because they are instructed to do so?, Where I am openly saying there is no such instruction and no such writing. But you still persist, just like a brainwashed individual. The Soldiers murder was condemned by everyone and those two fruitcakes did it as a political statement they themselves claimed, not based on religion, It was a shameful disgusting thing to do, and absolutely evil, for whatever reason,. I say faith absolutely does not teach this. Pope wrote: “As for women being equal to men in your religion, i have seen to much for that to be considered anything but a blatant lie from a brainwashed fool; there are too many documented occurrences of inequality in this country alone for you to deny it.” What have you seen, and maybe your experience are based upon the way you live your life which I might find abhorrent , as you think of mine. In your last post you mentioned something about being to strict, I asked you strict to whom you or me? You never replied, what is this inequliaty, but I pointed out to you and it is free to see all around you that yearly tens of thousands of women in the west from all professional walks of life are freely adopting Islam, leaving your atheist society, it’s the fastest growing faith even amongst women, why is that? Isn’t that completely contradicting yourself made assessments, or maybe you’re not a woman so you probably dont understand. Portraying women as sex objects, thinking they get raped “ cos they asked for it “as western society teaches here, a rampant sex industry, an established page 3 and **** industry, oh this is liberation for you?. POPE wrote: “"Traditional sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina..." Yes, its from Google so i guess you will say its not true so explain her real age” Lastly I have already explained this above refer to my earlier post and the beginning of this one, It is not traditional sources, it is just ONE REPORT, compiled a few hundred Years after the Prophet’s life. By a single narrator known to be suffering from weak memory who never met any of the parties involved. The age was by the same narrator is given as 6, then 9 and in one as 11. All by the same narrator who contradicts himself, or as rightfully pointed out the 9 was actually 19 but due to his weak memory narrated it as 9. But neither of these is accurate because it is well established from more reliable historical acounts and undeniable evidence that she was 19 and a fully grown woman, the sources are far to many to list here. And let’s not forget my earlier point you yourself criticized the method of such reporting yet you try and use it against me, isn’t this double standards or hypocrisy quite simply. There you go boy there was no need to doubt at all. So if you do reply address what we already discussed or leave it , because your boring me. johnny_english1
  • Score: 1

1:02am Tue 27 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

I forgot to say.

peace out
I forgot to say. peace out johnny_english1
  • Score: 1

7:40am Tue 27 May 14

garston tony says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Well said, Popeonaraope! Muslims are simply backward and medieval.
If that were true you'd fit right in
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: Well said, Popeonaraope! Muslims are simply backward and medieval.[/p][/quote]If that were true you'd fit right in garston tony
  • Score: 0

10:37am Tue 27 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

As I've told you before, Tony, I've seen what Asian Muslims have done to my native city of Bradford, the city where I was born and where I can trace my ancestry back into the 18th century. Once it was the world centre of the woollen and textile trade and one of the richest towns in Britain. The area my ancestors lived in was once a fashionable suburb, more of a village really, with fine old houses and populated by good, decent, honest, working class Yorkshire folks. Today it's more like Islamabad and a stinkhole of a slum, due to gross over-immigration by Asians. I feel like weeping for it when I go there, which is rarely these days. Not for nothing has it acquired the nickname "Bradfordistan". I am filled with horror and dismay when I see Muslim women in their hideous black bin liners with only their eyes showing pushing prams in the street and in supermarkets. Other towns in the north like Rotherham, Rochdale and Oldham have been equally over-run. Why do you think Ukip did so well in the European elections? Many indigenous British people are sick to the back teeth of seeing OUR country taken over by immigrants. I am sure many immigrants are genuine and come here seeking a better life and are prepared to knuckle down and do a decent job, but there are also many who are here purely for our welfare benefits and what they can get out of us. How many Asian Muslims who call themselves British are actually screwing us and sending money back to Pakistan?
As I've told you before, Tony, I've seen what Asian Muslims have done to my native city of Bradford, the city where I was born and where I can trace my ancestry back into the 18th century. Once it was the world centre of the woollen and textile trade and one of the richest towns in Britain. The area my ancestors lived in was once a fashionable suburb, more of a village really, with fine old houses and populated by good, decent, honest, working class Yorkshire folks. Today it's more like Islamabad and a stinkhole of a slum, due to gross over-immigration by Asians. I feel like weeping for it when I go there, which is rarely these days. Not for nothing has it acquired the nickname "Bradfordistan". I am filled with horror and dismay when I see Muslim women in their hideous black bin liners with only their eyes showing pushing prams in the street and in supermarkets. Other towns in the north like Rotherham, Rochdale and Oldham have been equally over-run. Why do you think Ukip did so well in the European elections? Many indigenous British people are sick to the back teeth of seeing OUR country taken over by immigrants. I am sure many immigrants are genuine and come here seeking a better life and are prepared to knuckle down and do a decent job, but there are also many who are here purely for our welfare benefits and what they can get out of us. How many Asian Muslims who call themselves British are actually screwing us and sending money back to Pakistan? Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -3

2:15pm Tue 27 May 14

Playa says...

Stockdill.

You're a hypocrite of the worst kind. You claim you're from the indigenous people of this country and Muslims are taking over. How about the indigenous people of Australia, Americas etc who your ancestors wiped out and took over their country? You previously claimed that was all OK because your ancestors were helping them?!

Well maybe Muslims do have an alternative and better system to help you and this country.

After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in:

1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2
2. Adultery and broken families
3. Teenage pregnancies
4. Fornication like wild animals
5. Corrupt banking systems
6. ****
7. Rampant **** available to young children
8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities)
9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence
10. Rape
11. Drug abuse
12. Violent crime
13. Racism
14. Anti-Semitism
15. Sexism
17. Prostitution
18. Murder

The list could go on Roy ....

This is what FREEDOM gives you.

Tell me how rampant this is in Muslim countries compared to your beloved country? Although Muslims are not perfect the systems and faith we follow is.

It will solve all of your problems Roy. I invite you to Islam.

Before you claim what are we Muslims doing here if the country along with the rest of the non-Muslim world is in the gutter, let me answer. We have a right to be here Roy, it’s God’s earth and not yours and OUR choice.
Stockdill. You're a hypocrite of the worst kind. You claim you're from the indigenous people of this country and Muslims are taking over. How about the indigenous people of Australia, Americas etc who your ancestors wiped out and took over their country? You previously claimed that was all OK because your ancestors were helping them?! Well maybe Muslims do have an alternative and better system to help you and this country. After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in: 1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2 2. Adultery and broken families 3. Teenage pregnancies 4. Fornication like wild animals 5. Corrupt banking systems 6. **** 7. Rampant **** available to young children 8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities) 9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence 10. Rape 11. Drug abuse 12. Violent crime 13. Racism 14. Anti-Semitism 15. Sexism 17. Prostitution 18. Murder The list could go on Roy .... This is what FREEDOM gives you. Tell me how rampant this is in Muslim countries compared to your beloved country? Although Muslims are not perfect the systems and faith we follow is. It will solve all of your problems Roy. I invite you to Islam. Before you claim what are we Muslims doing here if the country along with the rest of the non-Muslim world is in the gutter, let me answer. We have a right to be here Roy, it’s God’s earth and not yours and OUR choice. Playa
  • Score: 2

2:41pm Tue 27 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

It must be a coincidence that wherever you look in the Third World, i.e. Africa, Asia and South America, everywhere there is starvation, poverty, disease, genocide, political upheaval, wars and corrupt regimes, and that in those countries billions of ignorant, unthinking, untutored, simple-minded people are held in thrall by the two great religions of the world, Roman Catholicism and Islam.

It's not God's earth because there is no such being and never has been. All so-called gods and supernatural beings are simply the product of backward, superstitious minds. And thanks for the invitation, but I would never dream of entering a mosque because Islam is totally alien to the British way of life. If you love it so much, then why not go and follow it in your own country of origin, rather than inflict it upon us?

As for Britain and other European colonial nations invading other countries, why wasn't it the other way round? Why were there no great armies and navies coming from Africa and Asia to invade us? Answer: because the white European colonial nations of Britain, France and Spain, and to a lesser degree Holland and Belgium, were superior and more powerful in every way and exported their civilisation to the more ignorant and backward parts of the world.
It must be a coincidence that wherever you look in the Third World, i.e. Africa, Asia and South America, everywhere there is starvation, poverty, disease, genocide, political upheaval, wars and corrupt regimes, and that in those countries billions of ignorant, unthinking, untutored, simple-minded people are held in thrall by the two great religions of the world, Roman Catholicism and Islam. It's not God's earth because there is no such being and never has been. All so-called gods and supernatural beings are simply the product of backward, superstitious minds. And thanks for the invitation, but I would never dream of entering a mosque because Islam is totally alien to the British way of life. If you love it so much, then why not go and follow it in your own country of origin, rather than inflict it upon us? As for Britain and other European colonial nations invading other countries, why wasn't it the other way round? Why were there no great armies and navies coming from Africa and Asia to invade us? Answer: because the white European colonial nations of Britain, France and Spain, and to a lesser degree Holland and Belgium, were superior and more powerful in every way and exported their civilisation to the more ignorant and backward parts of the world. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Tue 27 May 14

Playa says...

Poor old Stockdill can never answer what is addressed in a post. without going on a tangent like a broken record.

You're soooo BORING!!!!!
Poor old Stockdill can never answer what is addressed in a post. without going on a tangent like a broken record. You're soooo BORING!!!!! Playa
  • Score: 0

7:26pm Tue 27 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

Roy Stockdill wrote:
It must be a coincidence that wherever you look in the Third World, i.e. Africa, Asia and South America, everywhere there is starvation, poverty, disease, genocide, political upheaval, wars and corrupt regimes, and that in those countries billions of ignorant, unthinking, untutored, simple-minded people are held in thrall by the two great religions of the world, Roman Catholicism and Islam.

It's not God's earth because there is no such being and never has been. All so-called gods and supernatural beings are simply the product of backward, superstitious minds. And thanks for the invitation, but I would never dream of entering a mosque because Islam is totally alien to the British way of life. If you love it so much, then why not go and follow it in your own country of origin, rather than inflict it upon us?

As for Britain and other European colonial nations invading other countries, why wasn't it the other way round? Why were there no great armies and navies coming from Africa and Asia to invade us? Answer: because the white European colonial nations of Britain, France and Spain, and to a lesser degree Holland and Belgium, were superior and more powerful in every way and exported their civilisation to the more ignorant and backward parts of the world.
Lol You were never superior on the battlefield just look at how your expansion was done compared to other empires it wasn't because you fought like men, it was because you connived and plotted like snakes, divide and rule turned one against the other like you did in India, as for you military might, these very third world countries many a times kicked the colonist a** like in Afghanistan, read up on a little history. The atheist west or previous Christians have done more conquests for murder plunder, and mass chaos then then entire world combined put together, dare you refute that.

Let me tell you what your tactics are, if we were to act in your manner, this is what we would do. Criticize any half naked woman as a product of atheist society. Pinpoint the young adolescent girls on street corners providing oral stimulation as a product of your society. Looking at the pissheads that roam the streets singing awful songs intimidating young children or women or any decent folk as " oh you only live once” pathetic atheists, or the jimmy Savills derive as much pleasure as you can cos you only live once style atheist, that are afraid of any higher authority and what frightens them most About God is their own sins. Maybe we should go around commenting on the thousands of media reports of crimes and start labelling all of them as the product of a Godless hopeless society in ruins. As for people sending their money abroad or wherever it’s their money keep your nose out of it. Who boast of civilisation and talk of hygiene yet after great wonders in science and technology which Good people from all walks of life have discovered, you and your type still don’t wash you’re a*** and hence the stink of **** effects your thinking power. LOL
[quote][p][bold]Roy Stockdill[/bold] wrote: It must be a coincidence that wherever you look in the Third World, i.e. Africa, Asia and South America, everywhere there is starvation, poverty, disease, genocide, political upheaval, wars and corrupt regimes, and that in those countries billions of ignorant, unthinking, untutored, simple-minded people are held in thrall by the two great religions of the world, Roman Catholicism and Islam. It's not God's earth because there is no such being and never has been. All so-called gods and supernatural beings are simply the product of backward, superstitious minds. And thanks for the invitation, but I would never dream of entering a mosque because Islam is totally alien to the British way of life. If you love it so much, then why not go and follow it in your own country of origin, rather than inflict it upon us? As for Britain and other European colonial nations invading other countries, why wasn't it the other way round? Why were there no great armies and navies coming from Africa and Asia to invade us? Answer: because the white European colonial nations of Britain, France and Spain, and to a lesser degree Holland and Belgium, were superior and more powerful in every way and exported their civilisation to the more ignorant and backward parts of the world.[/p][/quote]Lol You were never superior on the battlefield just look at how your expansion was done compared to other empires it wasn't because you fought like men, it was because you connived and plotted like snakes, divide and rule turned one against the other like you did in India, as for you military might, these very third world countries many a times kicked the colonist a** like in Afghanistan, read up on a little history. The atheist west or previous Christians have done more conquests for murder plunder, and mass chaos then then entire world combined put together, dare you refute that. Let me tell you what your tactics are, if we were to act in your manner, this is what we would do. Criticize any half naked woman as a product of atheist society. Pinpoint the young adolescent girls on street corners providing oral stimulation as a product of your society. Looking at the pissheads that roam the streets singing awful songs intimidating young children or women or any decent folk as " oh you only live once” pathetic atheists, or the jimmy Savills derive as much pleasure as you can cos you only live once style atheist, that are afraid of any higher authority and what frightens them most About God is their own sins. Maybe we should go around commenting on the thousands of media reports of crimes and start labelling all of them as the product of a Godless hopeless society in ruins. As for people sending their money abroad or wherever it’s their money keep your nose out of it. Who boast of civilisation and talk of hygiene yet after great wonders in science and technology which Good people from all walks of life have discovered, you and your type still don’t wash you’re a*** and hence the stink of **** effects your thinking power. LOL johnny_english1
  • Score: 1

7:39pm Tue 27 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Will the Watford Muslim community issue a statement condemning unequivocally the horrific, barbaric stoning to death of a young 25-year-old woman in Pakistan for apparently marrying the wrong man? (See press reports). I doubt it.

The reports say at least 1,000 women are murdered in Pakistan every year, mostly by their own families, in so-called "honour killings".

Barbarity beyond belief and committed by Muslims.

BTW, the British forces beat Napoleon and Hitler and beat the French and Germans in just about every battle since the Middle Ages. Where were Muslims then? Were there any at Agincourt, Crecy, Waterloo or the Somme?
Will the Watford Muslim community issue a statement condemning unequivocally the horrific, barbaric stoning to death of a young 25-year-old woman in Pakistan for apparently marrying the wrong man? (See press reports). I doubt it. The reports say at least 1,000 women are murdered in Pakistan every year, mostly by their own families, in so-called "honour killings". Barbarity beyond belief and committed by Muslims. BTW, the British forces beat Napoleon and Hitler and beat the French and Germans in just about every battle since the Middle Ages. Where were Muslims then? Were there any at Agincourt, Crecy, Waterloo or the Somme? Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -1

8:45pm Tue 27 May 14

IkkieH says...

To be honest Roy, I think you're pathetic.

Answer the questions.

We answer yours but you seem to have a superiority complex to try and look better than Muslims by posting your diatribe in the most animalistic way possible. You come across as an angry old man who, so far in every post, has quite a vile mouth by calling other places that are maybe not as wealthy or clean as stinkpots.

To be honest, some if your posts are report worthy. Ironically, you got annoyed at someone taking a light jab earlier on in the conversation.

Shameful.
To be honest Roy, I think you're pathetic. Answer the questions. We answer yours but you seem to have a superiority complex to try and look better than Muslims by posting your diatribe in the most animalistic way possible. You come across as an angry old man who, so far in every post, has quite a vile mouth by calling other places that are maybe not as wealthy or clean as stinkpots. To be honest, some if your posts are report worthy. Ironically, you got annoyed at someone taking a light jab earlier on in the conversation. Shameful. IkkieH
  • Score: 2

8:58pm Tue 27 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

Well, perhaps you would care to answer my question! Will Watford's Muslim community be issuing a statement deploring the stoning to death in Pakistan of an innocent 25-year-old married woman by her own family in a barbaric, so-called "honour killing"? Is that what Islam is really about?
Well, perhaps you would care to answer my question! Will Watford's Muslim community be issuing a statement deploring the stoning to death in Pakistan of an innocent 25-year-old married woman by her own family in a barbaric, so-called "honour killing"? Is that what Islam is really about? Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -2

10:25pm Tue 27 May 14

Playa says...

The only thing to deplore and apologise is for Watford having to put up with you Stockdill!
The only thing to deplore and apologise is for Watford having to put up with you Stockdill! Playa
  • Score: 1

10:55pm Tue 27 May 14

Popeonarope says...

johnny_not_english1 -
"After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in:

1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2
2. Adultery and broken families
3. Teenage pregnancies
4. Fornication like wild animals
5. Corrupt banking systems
6. ****
7. Rampant **** available to young children
8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities)
9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence
10. Rape
11. Drug abuse
12. Violent crime
13. Racism
14. Anti-Semitism
15. Sexism
17. Prostitution
18. Murder
The list could go on Roy ....
This is what FREEDOM gives you."

All of the above can be found in all countries and you know it.
We know its not perfect yet here you are! Where you get the benefits of:

1. Free health service
2. Free education
3. Freedom of speech
4. Religious freedom
5. Democracy
6. Benefit System
7. Open borders
8. Stable environment
9. Clean water
10. Center of commerce
11. Temperate weather
12. Honest police service
13. Regional stability
14. Stable infrastructure

Here you are in a country that you hate, in a culture you consider broken and a people you detest, true colours shine brightest my misguided friend and you dare call me a hypocrite.
johnny_not_english1 - "After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in: 1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2 2. Adultery and broken families 3. Teenage pregnancies 4. Fornication like wild animals 5. Corrupt banking systems 6. **** 7. Rampant **** available to young children 8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities) 9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence 10. Rape 11. Drug abuse 12. Violent crime 13. Racism 14. Anti-Semitism 15. Sexism 17. Prostitution 18. Murder The list could go on Roy .... This is what FREEDOM gives you." All of the above can be found in all countries and you know it. We know its not perfect yet here you are! Where you get the benefits of: 1. Free health service 2. Free education 3. Freedom of speech 4. Religious freedom 5. Democracy 6. Benefit System 7. Open borders 8. Stable environment 9. Clean water 10. Center of commerce 11. Temperate weather 12. Honest police service 13. Regional stability 14. Stable infrastructure Here you are in a country that you hate, in a culture you consider broken and a people you detest, true colours shine brightest my misguided friend and you dare call me a hypocrite. Popeonarope
  • Score: 2

11:44am Wed 28 May 14

Playa says...

Of those on the list that are relevant I thank God and God alone for
Of those on the list that are relevant I thank God and God alone for Playa
  • Score: 0

12:05pm Wed 28 May 14

Roy Stockdill says...

I wonder why Playa, Johnny_English1 and IkkieH are here at all if they hate this country so much? They could toddle off to Pakistan and take part in stoning a few women to death.
I wonder why Playa, Johnny_English1 and IkkieH are here at all if they hate this country so much? They could toddle off to Pakistan and take part in stoning a few women to death. Roy Stockdill
  • Score: -2

6:29pm Wed 28 May 14

IkkieH says...

Quote me where I say I hate this country you stupid single celled creature.

There has been no hate spread on here bar your words. In fact, almost every other poster bar yourself Roy is civilised. You are a properly disgraceful character.

I was born and grew up here so have every right to be here. A majority of us follow the system and take pride in tje fact we are Muslim. Screw you and your stupid idiotic hate filled responses.

Everyone has a right to their opinions on here and I respect the fact that others are debating. It's healthy. What isn't healthy is your addition to this conversation.

You wanted answers to your questions? Answer some of the ones we pose and we'll move on from there.

You want a response on the Yemeni ladies issue? It's not right, clearly, but the answer is a little longer and more in depth than a simple yes/no answer.
Quote me where I say I hate this country you stupid single celled creature. There has been no hate spread on here bar your words. In fact, almost every other poster bar yourself Roy is civilised. You are a properly disgraceful character. I was born and grew up here so have every right to be here. A majority of us follow the system and take pride in tje fact we are Muslim. Screw you and your stupid idiotic hate filled responses. Everyone has a right to their opinions on here and I respect the fact that others are debating. It's healthy. What isn't healthy is your addition to this conversation. You wanted answers to your questions? Answer some of the ones we pose and we'll move on from there. You want a response on the Yemeni ladies issue? It's not right, clearly, but the answer is a little longer and more in depth than a simple yes/no answer. IkkieH
  • Score: 0

12:33pm Thu 29 May 14

johnny_english1 says...

THEAVILPOPEONHELLOFA
LOTOFDOPE, lol wrote
"johnny_not_english1 -
"After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in:

1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2
2. Adultery and broken families
3. Teenage pregnancies
4. Fornication like wild animals
5. Corrupt banking systems
6. ****
7. Rampant **** available to young children
8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities)
9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence
10. Rape
11. Drug abuse
12. Violent crime
13. Racism
14. Anti-Semitism
15. Sexism
17. Prostitution
18. Murder
The list could go on Roy ....
This is what FREEDOM gives you."”

Welcome back after many lonely hours of biased bigoted research on dr Google you finally return and as usual you and British bulldog Roy never ever answer any of my rebuttals instead come back with more red herrings. First Of the above wasn’t written by me. I think you are fascinated by me, hence im always on your mind LOL. Although I completely agree with the above, your evils far outweigh any other community COMBINED. The difference is with us you look and strain and find a few rare examples, but with you, it’s the story every one.

THEEVILPOPEONAHELLOF
ALOTOFDOPE, pheww wrote,
“All of the above can be found in all countries and you know it.
We know it’s not perfect yet here you are! Where you get the benefits of:

1. Free health service
2. Free education
3. Freedom of speech
4. Religious freedom
5. Democracy
6. Benefit System
7. Open borders
8. Stable environment
9. Clean water
10. Center of commerce
11. Temperate weather
12. Honest police service
13. Regional stability
14. Stable infrastructure

Here you are in a country that you hate, in a culture you consider broken and a people you detest, true colours shine brightest my misguided friend and you dare call me a hypocrite.””

We enjoyed all that hundreds of years before you even thought of it; in fact we can prove that it was from the Then Flourishing Islamic communities that you got many of these ideas from. It would have continued without the constant scheming, backstabbing, interfering, and installing puppet dictators.

Let me clarify something for you, and I hope you understand it read it and comprehend it well, although I do doubt you and Roy would be able to do such a decent and straight forward thing. I/We do not hate this country, infact I love it, and there is many good things here not available elsewhere. What I am against is you trying to throw your bigoted views down my throat in what You call integration, hence when being fed up I answer back with what I wrote above , what is it that you want me to integrate into?, hence I provided examples. Yes I consider what you call culture is in fact backwards, so hence I don’t consider it mine. Because England is a multicultural society, this is my home, wither you like it or not, I shall be quite frank, I will condemn the evil priest who attacks the choir boy, I will despise people like jimmy saville, I shall not be a p*ss head and roam the streets singing awful songs, and I do not have a liking towards porky pig, I do however support freedom of belief , of choice and speech without causing offence to others, I support the rule of law , of a worthy justice system we have in this country, But people like you should also accept my choice and how I conduct myself is entirely my choice, and you have no right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot do as long as I do not break the law of my country ENGLAND. Capiche?

I condemn all actions of violence against innocence, be it done any part of the world no matter by what people or what culture, But I cannot applogise for something I do not promote or uphold nor applogise for the ignorance of people who may adhere to the same faith of mine, whilst the very same faith in no unambiguous terms condemns such people in the strongest terms. Like I said earlier just like the atheist world doesn’t apologize for killing tens of thousands of women and children yearly through using cluster bombs, nor is shameful of promoting women as sex objects, nor many other social evils, which some are considered normal by them. I cannot apologize for something I abhor and condemn in the strongest terms anyway. Which just represent a state of mind of a few uneducated ignorant people, with a different culture, in a country yes even in Pakistan there are different cultures, and there are different immigrant communities their also. I Go for justice , which is simple the people do not represent a ideology, find fault with the system if you can, not the people as man is bound to err and make mistakes, were human, this formula can be applied anywhere.

Oh and I don't like peppa pig either, I think Super ted is cool though, is that blameworthy?.
THEAVILPOPEONHELLOFA LOTOFDOPE, lol wrote "johnny_not_english1 - "After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in: 1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2 2. Adultery and broken families 3. Teenage pregnancies 4. Fornication like wild animals 5. Corrupt banking systems 6. **** 7. Rampant **** available to young children 8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities) 9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence 10. Rape 11. Drug abuse 12. Violent crime 13. Racism 14. Anti-Semitism 15. Sexism 17. Prostitution 18. Murder The list could go on Roy .... This is what FREEDOM gives you."” Welcome back after many lonely hours of biased bigoted research on dr Google you finally return and as usual you and British bulldog Roy never ever answer any of my rebuttals instead come back with more red herrings. First Of the above wasn’t written by me. I think you are fascinated by me, hence im always on your mind LOL. Although I completely agree with the above, your evils far outweigh any other community COMBINED. The difference is with us you look and strain and find a few rare examples, but with you, it’s the story every one. THEEVILPOPEONAHELLOF ALOTOFDOPE, pheww wrote, “All of the above can be found in all countries and you know it. We know it’s not perfect yet here you are! Where you get the benefits of: 1. Free health service 2. Free education 3. Freedom of speech 4. Religious freedom 5. Democracy 6. Benefit System 7. Open borders 8. Stable environment 9. Clean water 10. Center of commerce 11. Temperate weather 12. Honest police service 13. Regional stability 14. Stable infrastructure Here you are in a country that you hate, in a culture you consider broken and a people you detest, true colours shine brightest my misguided friend and you dare call me a hypocrite.”” We enjoyed all that hundreds of years before you even thought of it; in fact we can prove that it was from the Then Flourishing Islamic communities that you got many of these ideas from. It would have continued without the constant scheming, backstabbing, interfering, and installing puppet dictators. Let me clarify something for you, and I hope you understand it read it and comprehend it well, although I do doubt you and Roy would be able to do such a decent and straight forward thing. I/We do not hate this country, infact I love it, and there is many good things here not available elsewhere. What I am against is you trying to throw your bigoted views down my throat in what You call integration, hence when being fed up I answer back with what I wrote above , what is it that you want me to integrate into?, hence I provided examples. Yes I consider what you call culture is in fact backwards, so hence I don’t consider it mine. Because England is a multicultural society, this is my home, wither you like it or not, I shall be quite frank, I will condemn the evil priest who attacks the choir boy, I will despise people like jimmy saville, I shall not be a p*ss head and roam the streets singing awful songs, and I do not have a liking towards porky pig, I do however support freedom of belief , of choice and speech without causing offence to others, I support the rule of law , of a worthy justice system we have in this country, But people like you should also accept my choice and how I conduct myself is entirely my choice, and you have no right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot do as long as I do not break the law of my country ENGLAND. Capiche? I condemn all actions of violence against innocence, be it done any part of the world no matter by what people or what culture, But I cannot applogise for something I do not promote or uphold nor applogise for the ignorance of people who may adhere to the same faith of mine, whilst the very same faith in no unambiguous terms condemns such people in the strongest terms. Like I said earlier just like the atheist world doesn’t apologize for killing tens of thousands of women and children yearly through using cluster bombs, nor is shameful of promoting women as sex objects, nor many other social evils, which some are considered normal by them. I cannot apologize for something I abhor and condemn in the strongest terms anyway. Which just represent a state of mind of a few uneducated ignorant people, with a different culture, in a country yes even in Pakistan there are different cultures, and there are different immigrant communities their also. I Go for justice , which is simple the people do not represent a ideology, find fault with the system if you can, not the people as man is bound to err and make mistakes, were human, this formula can be applied anywhere. Oh and I don't like peppa pig either, I think Super ted is cool though, is that blameworthy?. johnny_english1
  • Score: 2

7:25pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Popeonarope says...

johnny_english1 wrote:
THEAVILPOPEONHELLOFA

LOTOFDOPE, lol wrote
&quot;johnny_not_eng
lish1 -
"After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in:

1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2
2. Adultery and broken families
3. Teenage pregnancies
4. Fornication like wild animals
5. Corrupt banking systems
6. ****
7. Rampant **** available to young children
8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities)
9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence
10. Rape
11. Drug abuse
12. Violent crime
13. Racism
14. Anti-Semitism
15. Sexism
17. Prostitution
18. Murder
The list could go on Roy ....
This is what FREEDOM gives you."”

Welcome back after many lonely hours of biased bigoted research on dr Google you finally return and as usual you and British bulldog Roy never ever answer any of my rebuttals instead come back with more red herrings. First Of the above wasn’t written by me. I think you are fascinated by me, hence im always on your mind LOL. Although I completely agree with the above, your evils far outweigh any other community COMBINED. The difference is with us you look and strain and find a few rare examples, but with you, it’s the story every one.

THEEVILPOPEONAHELLOF

ALOTOFDOPE, pheww wrote,
“All of the above can be found in all countries and you know it.
We know it’s not perfect yet here you are! Where you get the benefits of:

1. Free health service
2. Free education
3. Freedom of speech
4. Religious freedom
5. Democracy
6. Benefit System
7. Open borders
8. Stable environment
9. Clean water
10. Center of commerce
11. Temperate weather
12. Honest police service
13. Regional stability
14. Stable infrastructure

Here you are in a country that you hate, in a culture you consider broken and a people you detest, true colours shine brightest my misguided friend and you dare call me a hypocrite.””

We enjoyed all that hundreds of years before you even thought of it; in fact we can prove that it was from the Then Flourishing Islamic communities that you got many of these ideas from. It would have continued without the constant scheming, backstabbing, interfering, and installing puppet dictators.

Let me clarify something for you, and I hope you understand it read it and comprehend it well, although I do doubt you and Roy would be able to do such a decent and straight forward thing. I/We do not hate this country, infact I love it, and there is many good things here not available elsewhere. What I am against is you trying to throw your bigoted views down my throat in what You call integration, hence when being fed up I answer back with what I wrote above , what is it that you want me to integrate into?, hence I provided examples. Yes I consider what you call culture is in fact backwards, so hence I don’t consider it mine. Because England is a multicultural society, this is my home, wither you like it or not, I shall be quite frank, I will condemn the evil priest who attacks the choir boy, I will despise people like jimmy saville, I shall not be a p*ss head and roam the streets singing awful songs, and I do not have a liking towards porky pig, I do however support freedom of belief , of choice and speech without causing offence to others, I support the rule of law , of a worthy justice system we have in this country, But people like you should also accept my choice and how I conduct myself is entirely my choice, and you have no right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot do as long as I do not break the law of my country ENGLAND. Capiche?

I condemn all actions of violence against innocence, be it done any part of the world no matter by what people or what culture, But I cannot applogise for something I do not promote or uphold nor applogise for the ignorance of people who may adhere to the same faith of mine, whilst the very same faith in no unambiguous terms condemns such people in the strongest terms. Like I said earlier just like the atheist world doesn’t apologize for killing tens of thousands of women and children yearly through using cluster bombs, nor is shameful of promoting women as sex objects, nor many other social evils, which some are considered normal by them. I cannot apologize for something I abhor and condemn in the strongest terms anyway. Which just represent a state of mind of a few uneducated ignorant people, with a different culture, in a country yes even in Pakistan there are different cultures, and there are different immigrant communities their also. I Go for justice , which is simple the people do not represent a ideology, find fault with the system if you can, not the people as man is bound to err and make mistakes, were human, this formula can be applied anywhere.

Oh and I don't like peppa pig either, I think Super ted is cool though, is that blameworthy?.
Your hypocrisy truly astounds me - How many billions have died in religious wars over the years. All stemming from who has the best sky fairy.
Your religion teaches fiction as fact and indoctrinates children before they have minds of their own; the same for all religions.
All religions are based on wish thinking and promotion of dogma. I dont expect you to understand, your part of the problem. Maybe in time we will be able to reach common ground but currently until you get over your bigoted views things will never change.
[quote][p][bold]johnny_english1[/bold] wrote: THEAVILPOPEONHELLOFA LOTOFDOPE, lol wrote "johnny_not_eng lish1 - "After all the non-Muslim Western World has a few problems of its own, is morally and financially bankrupt and leads the world in: 1. Warmongering - more Christians have killed fellow Christians than in any other religion. You know your history and should know who was killing who during WW1 and WW2 2. Adultery and broken families 3. Teenage pregnancies 4. Fornication like wild animals 5. Corrupt banking systems 6. **** 7. Rampant **** available to young children 8. Paedophilia (even within the Church and your beloved celebrities) 9. Alcohol abuse and related domestic violence 10. Rape 11. Drug abuse 12. Violent crime 13. Racism 14. Anti-Semitism 15. Sexism 17. Prostitution 18. Murder The list could go on Roy .... This is what FREEDOM gives you."” Welcome back after many lonely hours of biased bigoted research on dr Google you finally return and as usual you and British bulldog Roy never ever answer any of my rebuttals instead come back with more red herrings. First Of the above wasn’t written by me. I think you are fascinated by me, hence im always on your mind LOL. Although I completely agree with the above, your evils far outweigh any other community COMBINED. The difference is with us you look and strain and find a few rare examples, but with you, it’s the story every one. THEEVILPOPEONAHELLOF ALOTOFDOPE, pheww wrote, “All of the above can be found in all countries and you know it. We know it’s not perfect yet here you are! Where you get the benefits of: 1. Free health service 2. Free education 3. Freedom of speech 4. Religious freedom 5. Democracy 6. Benefit System 7. Open borders 8. Stable environment 9. Clean water 10. Center of commerce 11. Temperate weather 12. Honest police service 13. Regional stability 14. Stable infrastructure Here you are in a country that you hate, in a culture you consider broken and a people you detest, true colours shine brightest my misguided friend and you dare call me a hypocrite.”” We enjoyed all that hundreds of years before you even thought of it; in fact we can prove that it was from the Then Flourishing Islamic communities that you got many of these ideas from. It would have continued without the constant scheming, backstabbing, interfering, and installing puppet dictators. Let me clarify something for you, and I hope you understand it read it and comprehend it well, although I do doubt you and Roy would be able to do such a decent and straight forward thing. I/We do not hate this country, infact I love it, and there is many good things here not available elsewhere. What I am against is you trying to throw your bigoted views down my throat in what You call integration, hence when being fed up I answer back with what I wrote above , what is it that you want me to integrate into?, hence I provided examples. Yes I consider what you call culture is in fact backwards, so hence I don’t consider it mine. Because England is a multicultural society, this is my home, wither you like it or not, I shall be quite frank, I will condemn the evil priest who attacks the choir boy, I will despise people like jimmy saville, I shall not be a p*ss head and roam the streets singing awful songs, and I do not have a liking towards porky pig, I do however support freedom of belief , of choice and speech without causing offence to others, I support the rule of law , of a worthy justice system we have in this country, But people like you should also accept my choice and how I conduct myself is entirely my choice, and you have no right whatsoever to tell me what I can or cannot do as long as I do not break the law of my country ENGLAND. Capiche? I condemn all actions of violence against innocence, be it done any part of the world no matter by what people or what culture, But I cannot applogise for something I do not promote or uphold nor applogise for the ignorance of people who may adhere to the same faith of mine, whilst the very same faith in no unambiguous terms condemns such people in the strongest terms. Like I said earlier just like the atheist world doesn’t apologize for killing tens of thousands of women and children yearly through using cluster bombs, nor is shameful of promoting women as sex objects, nor many other social evils, which some are considered normal by them. I cannot apologize for something I abhor and condemn in the strongest terms anyway. Which just represent a state of mind of a few uneducated ignorant people, with a different culture, in a country yes even in Pakistan there are different cultures, and there are different immigrant communities their also. I Go for justice , which is simple the people do not represent a ideology, find fault with the system if you can, not the people as man is bound to err and make mistakes, were human, this formula can be applied anywhere. Oh and I don't like peppa pig either, I think Super ted is cool though, is that blameworthy?.[/p][/quote]Your hypocrisy truly astounds me - How many billions have died in religious wars over the years. All stemming from who has the best sky fairy. Your religion teaches fiction as fact and indoctrinates children before they have minds of their own; the same for all religions. All religions are based on wish thinking and promotion of dogma. I dont expect you to understand, your part of the problem. Maybe in time we will be able to reach common ground but currently until you get over your bigoted views things will never change. Popeonarope
  • Score: 3

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree