All change at Watford Junction

11:03am Monday 12th November 2007 in News Photograph of the Author By Filip Hnizdo

Commuters face major changes today after yesterday's handover of Silverlink train services.

Services from Watford Junction to London Euston are now run by two new operators, London Midland, a branch of Govia Transport, and London Overground, owned by Transport for London.

Passengers using the stopping service from Watford Junction to London Euston will be able to use Oyster cards and enjoy reduced fares.

However those using the fast service from Watford to London - the majority of commuters - will have to continue using paper tickets at Silverlink rates.

A spokesperson for London Midland, the firm which will run the fast service from Watford Junction to London Euston, said it was in talks to introduce Oyster cards or another smart card by 2010.

When interviewing commuters at Watford Junction station this morning, The Watford Observer was thrown out by London Midland staff.

Are you affected by the service changes? Do you think Oyster cards should be valid on all services from Watford Junction? Fill out the form below or telephone 01923 216 295 to speak with one of our reporters.

Comments(45)

Ian says...
11:54am Fri 9 Nov 07

How can the train route be non Oyster yet the overground route be Oyster - all other train services within the TFL zones are Oyster no matter whether fast services or not. Fast services from and to Watford are impossible to enforce non Oyster at peak times due to amount of passengers - just stupidity on Midlane's part not to allow Oyster straight away.

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John 23 says...
5:29pm Fri 9 Nov 07

Everyone should either boycott or not pay the full fare on London Midland services into Euston!! It is disgusting that they will be issuing penalty fares on their services despite running parallel to London Overground services. It is a shambles how the government allowed the franchise to not have its fares in line with TFL.

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James says...
9:14pm Fri 9 Nov 07

This is a complete joke. The amount of problems this is going to cause is unbelievable. They haven't even taken over yet and already they've left a bad impression.

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John Pannell says...
8:52am Sun 11 Nov 07

I use the service every weekday plus weekends and I was looking forward to using an Oyster card to get around London with ease.

I start at an unmanned station and then pass through at least TFL 6 barriers during the day. The paper cards are useless. They wear out after a few months and need replacing. One lasted only a week. They often get stuck in the barriers.

It would make much more sense if us "Overlanders" can use Oyster for both financial and convenience benefit. The train operators can also save on operating costs with paper-ticket less travel.

Also a fellow traveller who takes the slow line with an Oyster card can benefit from all the 2 for 1 and other Oyster card offers at theatres, restaurants, etc. Whilst I can only get a discount for a coffee at some station cafes!!

I wonder if they will wake up to this and provide easier travelling Overland and Underland?

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F Edup says...
11:34am Sun 11 Nov 07

The best news yet! I got told this morning at Watford Junction that in order to use the Oyster tickets you have to get off the train at Harrow to swipe your ticket and then wait for the next train!!!!!!!!!
Apparently London Midland have vowed to increase profits which can only mean one thing for the commuters...
Animals can't be transported the way communters are in carriages.
We want - more trains during peak periods and one flat charge for people who wish to use Oyster - easy!
(I am sure the moeny can be found if they cut a few salaries from the peoplle at the top! I sure Mr Livingston could have his salary halved)

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Phil says...
1:32pm Sun 11 Nov 07

There seems to be much confusion about who is responsible for this 'dual fare' arrangement.

TfL cannot force a private rail company to accept Oyster. Ken Livingstone is trying to set up a network of commuter / metro services for London using Oyster and under the 'London Overground' banner.

This should be welcomed, not criticised because some are not yet benefiting today. There are lots of places where private rail companies operate alongside LUL but TfL does not have the kind of control over these companies that people seem to think they do. In fact these companies work under the Netwrok Rail operator and the track is owned by NR out to Watford.

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F Edup says...
3:21pm Sun 11 Nov 07

Phil - you obviously don't have to cough up £14 a day to commute cattle class into London! We were excited about this new phase until we discovered only the slow trains into London will benefit from a lower price on the Oyster ticket!
All is seems that most commuters using London Midland have to look forward too is a price hike!
So excuse us for not welcoming the changes!

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Richard Merritt says...
6:07pm Sun 11 Nov 07

I quote from a TFL advert in Watford Observer page 21.
From 11 November, London Overground will take over the running of services on the North London, West London, Gospel Oak to Barking and Watford Junction Euston lines. From day one London Overground stations will be staffed, regularly cleaned and Oyster pay as you go will be valid on all services.
This contradicts what the Watford Observer says, however, it would be interesting to see what happens if an Inspector tries to impose a fine.

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Mike Briggs says...
7:01pm Sun 11 Nov 07

This is just plain stupid - there are some routes in other places which don't take OYSTER because gates and readers are not installed but to prevent us using OYSTER on the London Midland express trains when Euston and Watford have all the necessary equipment is just plain daft! It shows how stupid this new franchise is if they don't even want a share of the money up for grabs! I bet loads of people will use the LM trains on OYSTER pre-pay anyway - the gates won't know which train people have caught and the trains are just too busy for Revenue Inspectors to get through.

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Jon Crescent says...
7:04pm Sun 11 Nov 07

Let's start a protest now. Oyster pre-pay is a great product. London Midland cannot be allowed to get awya with this! How are they possibly going to enforce this anyway. I knew it would be stupid to let a company based in Birmingham run commuter services from Watford to London! Can the Watford Observer turn this into a proper campaign?

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Louise Strange says...
7:08pm Sun 11 Nov 07

If the new train company get away with this it will be the only exmaple in London area where TFL and National Rail on parallel routes are allowed to accept different ticket products. I agree - let's get this up and running as a proper protest and stop this new company making profits are our expense. Oyster Pre-Pay from Watford and Bushey now!

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Nick Miles says...
9:50pm Sun 11 Nov 07

This is an outrage. Cant you just buy a paper travelcard that covers zones 1-A. What is the arrangement for people traveling from Harrow & Wealdstone, on the fast train? Is their travelcard on oyster or on paper?

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F Edup says...
8:04am Mon 12 Nov 07

Jon Crescent wrote:
Let's start a protest now. Oyster pre-pay is a great product. London Midland cannot be allowed to get awya with this! How are they possibly going to enforce this anyway. I knew it would be stupid to let a company based in Birmingham run commuter services from Watford to London! Can the Watford Observer turn this into a proper campaign?
I'm in!

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Gareth says...
2:01pm Mon 12 Nov 07

They had 5 or so inspectors at Bushey this morning making sure no scamps were coming though with their dastardly Oyster cards onto the "fast" service.

And the thought that these tickets are going to get EVEN more expensive will simply drive people to try their luck / plead ignorance with the Oyster card anyway.

And the ticket guys at Bushey now spend most of their days apologisisng for things out of their control.

Madness.


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carl says...
4:18pm Mon 12 Nov 07

Does anyone actually know what the fares (and zones) are for stations north for Hatch End for travelcards and PAYG and have they fallen? According to Watfrod High Street Station, its the same expensive price. Seems ironic that Southern (the same company as London Midland) allows Oyster on its fast services into Clapham Junction. How will the oyster barriers know if you travelled on a fast or slow service into Euston. It is an utter shambles for London Midland and London Overground. All Watford and Bushey train users should RISE UP AGAINST PROFITEERS and boycott London Midland until they bow down to our demands!!

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Graham says...
4:31pm Mon 12 Nov 07

Just entered Watford Junction to Liverpool Street on TFL Journey Planner. Says to use London Midland to Euston then tube, rush hour fare is £5.50 each way using Oyster. Suggest we all use Oyster and refer London Midland to TFL Journey Planner, if challenged say your name's Ken Livingstone etc and let them bill you for any penalty fare.......

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andy says...
6:51pm Mon 12 Nov 07

Do you all know that Southern accept Oyster pay as you go on its service between Watford Junction and Clapham Junction? It seems only London Midland are out of step - makes their decision even more absurd!

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Richard says...
7:32pm Mon 12 Nov 07

I travel into London Euston from Berkhamsted on a Silverlink ticket/pass.

First change I noticed this morning was that they have posters up around the platform banning cyclists from taking their bikes on trains during the peak hours. I don't cycle myself personally though.

The main thing I'd like to know is whether there will be another strike this Friday? I'm getting pretty fed up of them now, has this new company resolved the issues?

During the strike I've been going from Amersham station. There you can pay with Oyster and use either the Metropolitan Line or use the faster Chiltern Trains into Marylebone. I can't see why they don't do the same with the former Silverlink trains.

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davidf says...
7:50pm Mon 12 Nov 07

As an observer who hopes to buy his first Oyster card tomorrow two thoughts arise:
1)managing the fast and slow services with multiple entry points and ticket systems may be a logical nightmare but "do not upset the customers" should be the prime driver,
2)Who would run a train system without making a profit? The discussion can only be about the distribution of costs, service and returns between investors and users. (remaining inhabitants of any socialist paradise yet to be rescued please note that their political experiment was cancelled in the late C20 after extensive field trials)

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Chris says...
8:03pm Mon 12 Nov 07

I commute from London to Watford, and was pleased about the introduction of the Oyster card to Watford Junction. I did want to check it worked on the fast trains, and found no official and unambiguous statements on the situation from either tfl or London Midland, so assumed it was ok. I even checked at the station before boarding that my Oyster card was valid and got the thumbs up. However on the train I got pulled by an over-zealous conductor, explained how 'a plastic blue wallet is not a ticket', and I was forced to buy one, as it apparently clearly states Oyster cards are not valid on the faster route. (Ive done this journey more than a few times, and conductors are a rare occurance, so Im guessing they anticipated my confusion.) Please, someone show me this clear stating is, or agree with me that its not really on.

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F Edup says...
9:36pm Mon 12 Nov 07

My husband said this morning was chaos at Watford Junction. People are not happy!
The trouble is what can we do - commuters can't strike!!!!!!
The Wafrod Observer wanted to interview commuters but suprise suprise London Midland refused to let them into the station!
So if anyone hears disgruntled commuters tomorrow - tell them to contact the Watford Observer - they want to fight this case!!!!

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NeilB says...
7:41am Tue 13 Nov 07

It would be interesting to see the reaction of LM staff, by pointing out that in the front cover of the new London Overground time table it (mis) quotes that Oyster prepay can be used between Watford Junction and London Euston on London Midland!

Everyone email WO, Claire Ward, and London Travelwatch to put the pressure on LM to accept oyster!

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Anonymous says...
10:32am Tue 13 Nov 07

Check out this document:
http://www.tfl.gov.u
k/assets/downloads/b
usinessandpartners/F
ranchisesWM-EM-XC-re
sponse.pdf

From August 2006, TfL advised the DfT that there would be confusion if Watford Junction wasn't addressed and that there should be a zonal change in the London Midland franchise document.

What a waste of time.

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mark Griffin says...
11:21am Tue 13 Nov 07

I too was looking forward to being able to use Oyster on fast services to/from Watford Junction, but this is a complete shambles. I thought I would be able to buy a travelcard on Oyster between Zones 5&6 and Watford Junction but I can't! Back to a paper ticket again! And to top it all off, I saw a new zonal map at Harrow & Wealdstone this morning with the A-D zones replaced by zones 7, 8 & 9. Carpenders Park was in zone 7 , same as Watford Met, Bushey and Watford High St were in zone 8, but Watford Junc was STILL outside the zones!!! When will this madness end???

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James says...
1:16pm Tue 13 Nov 07

i quizzed a member of staff at the station last night and he had no real answer, agreed it was a total shambles. this morning there were about 10 station staff checking everyones tickets going onto platforms 7 & 9 for the fast trains. utter joke. I intend to buy a pay as you go oyster for the time being. if london midlands prices were more reasonable then it would not be a problem but there is a £500 difference

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Richard says...
2:38pm Tue 13 Nov 07

Another problem I've seen so far is that this only day two of London Midland running the county service and already I've suffered canceled trains both yesterday and this morning. I was hoping this new company would be better than Silverlink, so far looks like I was wrong.

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Paul Ryan says...
3:01pm Tue 13 Nov 07

There seems to have been a last minute hitch regarding Oyster card use on the London Midland line. Prior to changeover of franchises Tfl & other press agencies were stating that oyster cards could be used on the fast line from Watford Junction & Euston. Why install oyster readers on platform 7&9 if they were never to be used & why wasn't it part of the agreement prior to changeover that Wikipedia are stating. Also it wasn't all about reduced fares, its also about freedom to pay online rather than standing in queues & wasting valuable time. London Midland need to look at their customer requirements - More space on trains and Oyster are a priority for us at Watford. I currently considering using Thameslink.

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Bill says...
4:12pm Tue 13 Nov 07

Well done to the WO for their petition to allow Oyster cards. Shame they've missed the point though. The petition reads "I, the undersigned, petition London Mainline to allow commuters to use Oyster cards on trains." Using Oyster cards on trains is already a well established concept, it's using them on fast trains between Wat Junc and Euston that's the issue.

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biffo says...
4:23pm Tue 13 Nov 07

why dont u lot stop
moaning and pay your
fares

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Peter White says...
7:21pm Tue 13 Nov 07

Hello,
There is chaos today on the trains between Euston and Watford Junction. The new franchise holder, Midland, seems to have changed the rolling stock on the second day. The new trains have little standing rooms and as a result the commuters cannot get onto the trains. My son took nealy one and a half houres to do a journey usually taking 20 mins. Just could not get to or off the platform to travel ?

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adman says...
7:29pm Tue 13 Nov 07

If LM keep ripping us off, why doesn't Ken cash in by operating a, "fast," overground service between WFJ & H&W that coinsides with the LM trains between H&W and Euston? Therefore we can all use Oyster to WFJ and pay TFL prices.

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David says...
12:24pm Wed 14 Nov 07

Paul Ryan, the readers on Platforms 7,9 will have been installed to allow those travelling out on the Overground to Touch Out before continuing on with their journey using a paper ticket they'll have already bought (any station can sell any normal ticket between any two points), and those travelling toward London to touch in.

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Dan says...
9:40pm Wed 14 Nov 07

We were promised that the line would operate in the same way as ALL other London lines, but no. Watford, as usual, is given third rate status.

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Lewis says...
1:48pm Thu 15 Nov 07

If you look at the front page of the London Overground timetable, it says:

"Oyster Pay As You Go is also valid on Southern services between Clapham
Junction and Willesden Junction, and on London Midland services between
London Euston and Watford Junction".

This is surely at odds with what London Midland is actually doing? I have never known a new company make such a bad mark so quickly.

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Andrew says...
2:11pm Thu 15 Nov 07

London Midland are barely into their new contract, and already they are showing an utter contempt for their customers. It is a complete joke!

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a user says...
2:19pm Thu 15 Nov 07

It's very easy for Red Ken to offer all these wonderful things - he's subsidising it with London taxpayers money! London Midland are doing nothing different from what Silverlink used to do. We do live in Herts not London!!

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James says...
7:01pm Thu 15 Nov 07

For Overground purposes, Watford Junction is now classified as Zone 6 (verified by several calls to Oyster Helpline) so the fares are much cheaper. Everyone can join in with these savings (just £43 for a Zone 1-6 travelcard that inludes Watford Junction) if you just get on the Southern train services between Watford Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone and the change on to Midland there and vice-versa. If everyone deprives London Midland of their revenue, they will soon have a change of heart...

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James says...
7:06pm Thu 15 Nov 07

a user wrote:
It's very easy for Red Ken to offer all these wonderful things - he's subsidising it with London taxpayers money! London Midland are doing nothing different from what Silverlink used to do. We do live in Herts not London!!
As for Watford Junction being in Herts - Richmond is in Surrey, Harrow & Wealdstone is in Middlesex, Chigwell is in Essex and yet they are all within Zone 6.

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Nick says...
11:00am Fri 16 Nov 07

James wrote:
For Overground purposes, Watford Junction is now classified as Zone 6 (verified by several calls to Oyster Helpline) so the fares are much cheaper. Everyone can join in with these savings (just £43 for a Zone 1-6 travelcard that inludes Watford Junction) if you just get on the Southern train services between Watford Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone and the change on to Midland there and vice-versa. If everyone deprives London Midland of their revenue, they will soon have a change of heart...
Hi James,
Are you saying I can get a normal 1-6 board on the Southern and as long as I change at Harrow there is no probs? I thought Watford J was going to be in Zone A like Watford Met.

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Andy says...
11:43am Fri 16 Nov 07

Watford Junction is and will not be in zone 6. As this change has occurred in mid fare rounds. From Jan 08 new zones 7,8,9 and a special zone W for Watford Junction will apply for Travelcards. Zone 6 Travelcards are only valid as far as Hatch End. The Oyster PAYG fare that you can use on London Overground to Watford Junction is capped to a similar amount as the Zone 6 equivalent, but again this is subject to change from January. PLUS PAYG fares will be subject to peak time prices if you travel back to Watford between 16.00 - 19.00 on a weekday

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adman says...
1:49pm Fri 16 Nov 07

Andy, where did you get this information? Will it apply to London Midland trains to WFJ?

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Rebecca says...
9:58am Wed 21 Nov 07

I have a gold card zones 1-4, when I have travelled to and from Watford Junction to Euston, I have always been able to get a extension from/to Kenton. This morning I was followed by a ticket inspector and forced to but a single from Watford to Euston, even though my gold card covers me from Kenton. This cost £11.40. I dont live in Watford, I live in SE London hence why I have a 1-4, why this is not valid when these stations are still inccuded in the zone map??!!

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Jo says...
10:58am Tue 27 Nov 07

Looks like even TFL thought Watford Junction was going to be in Zone 6a...
http://www.tfl.gov.u

k/assets/downloads/c

reating-london-overg

round.pdf
It would have made everything much easier if they could have stuck to the original plan!

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David says...
1:24pm Fri 30 Nov 07

For those who aren't aware the confusion has ended ... http://www.londonmid
land.com/index.php/n
ews/news_items/view/
16

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Helen says...
10:08pm Sat 1 Dec 07

I called LondonMidland on friday 30 Nov afternoon and the girl (who sounded confused) quoted me the annual underground price of just over £1800 for Watford Junction to Euston. When I got to Watford Junction and asked in the evening, the girl behind the counter was very dismissive saying that she heard nothing of Watford J being a new zone, and that Oyster card is prepay only and they don't do Oyster annual ticket. I am so confused (& angry)!

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