London Midland admits error (From Watford Observer)

London Midland admits error

9:07am Thursday 15th November 2007 in News Photograph of the Author By Filip Hnizdo

Train bosses have now backtracked on their promise to allow consumers to use Oyster on fast services between London and Watford Junction.

A written statement from London Midland, sent to the Watford Observer today, reads: "Oyster has never been valid on the former Silverlink County services prior to 11th November 2007 and this remains the case for all of the former Silverlink County services which became part of the London Midland franchise on 11th November.

"I am sorry for any confusion, but my colleague made a genuine error earlier when researching your enquiry. Thank you for checking back with us. We will of couse (sic) asdvise (sic) you as sonas (sic) there is any chnage (sic) in the situation with Oyster cards."

Yesterday, a member of London Midland's press office blamed the confusion on poorly briefed staff at Watford Junction.

However, today's revelations demonstrate London Midland's own confusion over the issue.

The Watford Observer launched a petition earlier this week calling for commuters to be able to use Oyster on all London-bound services from Watford Junction - not just the slow services.

Read the stories below and then add your name to the petition to send a clear message to train bosses.

Related links

Comments(24)

Dom says...
2:36pm Thu 15 Nov 07

I'm a train driver on the tube and I'm also not able to use my staff pass on the fast services which I was able to do a week ago.

As a result, when I'm on very early or late duties, I have to get to work 45 mins early or come in late and I get home far far later.

So apologies to all Northern Line passengers for the delays and cancelled trains caused if I'm not able to get into work on time!

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Ian says...
3:07pm Thu 15 Nov 07

What we need is a written statement from the chief exec at London Midland explaining exactly what the situation is regarding Oyster on their faset services both for now and in the future. At the moment, commuters genuinley don't know if Oyster is avaliable at Watford J or Harrow & Weald. The statement needs to be clear and unambigious - I wonder what London Midland told the Watford Train group and Cllr Andy Wylie as they are the ones who statutory need to know what the train situation is at Watford J.

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Robster says...
3:16pm Thu 15 Nov 07

It's not very surprising to see that the spelling on London Midland's statement is in keeping with the rest of this affair.

The paying public deserve better than this. The various authorities involved need to use their common sense to resolve the issue.

Watford Junction to Euston needs to be fully Oyster compatible regardless of the train.

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Steve Rackett says...
4:33pm Thu 15 Nov 07

Firstly, when I traveled through Watford Junction this morning, I felt London Midlands attitude very odd. After passing through the ticket barrier I had to show my ticket again almost right away to an army of revenue protection staff.

What other business would make customers feel like potential criminals?

I was on my way to a meeting of Hertfordshire County Councils Transport Panel, where I raised this issue.

Ian above mentions Councillor Andy Wylie. He is a Watford Borough Council and Watford Council has no say over transport matters. The transport authority is Hertfordshire County Council.

I am pleased to say that my questions today led to a very robust response from Councillor Stuart Pile, who is the politician responsible in the County. He will be meeting with the various operators and the GLA/London Transport soon and his attitude was that its time some heads were knocked together. Hes another person (like Clare Ward) we need on our side I am Green Party councillor and he is Conservative but I do have confidence he will do what it takes. In his answer he also indicated that London Midland will probably have no choice but to comply eventually. Ken Livingstone has the power to make them.

London Midland had months and months to consider this issue. Simply saying theyve just taken over is not good enough. They should have been prepared and they just havent considered passengers at all.

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Richard says...
5:32pm Thu 15 Nov 07

I travelled into London in rush hour this morning and was confronted, after the ticket barrier, by numerous ticket inspectors with their entourage of security. Either J-Lo was coming to town or London Midland was cashing in on the Oyster confusion. How customer friendly of LM to treat us like criminals. My timing became more inappropriate as the tunnel filled with arriving passengers. You have to question the safety of so many trying to exit with hiding in wait inspectors not letting a single passenger pass without showing a suitable ticket, irrespective of any inconvenience. LM are certainly making an impression but no friends. Lets hope they put the additional revenue raised this week into staff customer care courses.

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Andrew Chilcott says...
7:08pm Thu 15 Nov 07

Dom - your TfL staff pass IS still valid on the AC services between Euston/Watford Junction. If you have been told otherwise by LM TOC staff, this indicates further confusion on their part. Advise your staff travel facilities team of the problem. So far as public fares are concerned, the real villains are the DfT, who negotiated the franchise without compelling Govia to accept Oyster from 11/2007 despite knowing that it would be valid on the parallel DC line taken over by TfL from the same date. apc

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Mark says...
8:01pm Thu 15 Nov 07

I used my Oyster card to gain access through the barriers this afternoon with the intent of getting on the SOUTHERN train to Clapham which accepts Oyster, only to have my progress blocked by several over zealous, intimidating and unreasonable London Midland ticket inspectors who refused to let me past. Depsite explaining to them Oyster was accepted on Southern, they refused to let me through, so I had to 'touch out' again with my Oyster which got charged, and then by a paper ticket to Clapham. When will someone reign in these London Midland guys and explain to them that they are only ticket inspectors (and not Military Police) and that customers of other train companies should be allowed to legimately board trains! London Midland are a disgrace and should be recommended for ASBO's for anti social behaviour, disturbing the peace.

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Cllr Andy Wylie says...
8:30pm Thu 15 Nov 07

Andrew Chilcott is spot on. The DfT seem to have made a right mess of this one. TfL warned them and they didn't heed the message, probably because the WJ-Euston revenue flow is too important for them to lose to Kens coffers.
All because TfL let their routes as concessions, the revenue going direct to TfL. The DfT let their franchises on the basis of the franchisee taking the revenue.
The DfT let franchises under strict conditions and these can be quite Stalinist. As someone who is involved in rail bidding (for another company!)I cannot imagine London Midland would have signed up to a franchise without this revenue risk being subject to a DfT risk assumption or bid direction.
All rail franchises have a clause in them that says if there is a material change to the bid that is out of the franchisees control that, by DfT agreement, they can get compensated for it.
So the ball really is in the DfTs court to agree that LM accepting Oyster now is compensatable and
request them to remove the subway stasi while they, TfL and LM sort out a deal.
Steve Rackett is right too - Watford Borough Council isn't the transport authority and I have to say rail companies usually only jump to the tune of their paymaster - the DfT.
The DfT could sort this out tomorrow if they so wished.

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Roy Stockdill says...
8:54pm Thu 15 Nov 07

Richard wrote:
I travelled into London in rush hour this morning and was confronted, after the ticket barrier, by numerous ticket inspectors with their entourage of security. Either J-Lo was coming to town or London Midland was cashing in on the Oyster confusion. How customer friendly of LM to treat us like criminals. My timing became more inappropriate as the tunnel filled with arriving passengers. You have to question the safety of so many trying to exit with hiding in wait inspectors not letting a single passenger pass without showing a suitable ticket, irrespective of any inconvenience. LM are certainly making an impression but no friends. Lets hope they put the additional revenue raised this week into staff customer care courses.

Is anyone seriously surprised by this reaction on the part of over-zealous LM inspectors? We are talking here about thick, ignorant morons who think totally in straight lines, i.e. narrow tunnels, and who would probably have extreme difficulty getting a job anywhere else. These are the kind of people who, if Hitler and the Nazis had won WWII, would have been first in line for the jackboots! They just love bullying others and throwing their weight around. I expect they go home and beat their wives and children up for light entertainment. If they weren't ticket inspectors they'd be traffic wardens, immigration and customs officers or security guards swaggering around The Harlequin wih their caps over their eyes and a ravenous alsation at their side, looking to swoop on anyone they feel they can bully. Sending them to "charm school", i.e. "customer care" courses, is almost certainly a total waste of time since they will not have the brain capacity to understand what customer care is about. These are the sort of brain-dead people who stood by and either did nothing or applauded when Hitler came to power in Germany and, given, half a chance, they would do it in this country as well. We are talking about zombies who love wearing uniforms and oppressing others!

[quote][bold]Richard[/bold] wrote: I travelled into London in rush hour this morning and was confronted, after the ticket barrier, by numerous ticket inspectors with their entourage of security. Either J-Lo was coming to town or London Midland was cashing in on the Oyster confusion. How customer friendly of LM to treat us like criminals. My timing became more inappropriate as the tunnel filled with arriving passengers. You have to question the safety of so many trying to exit with hiding in wait inspectors not letting a single passenger pass without showing a suitable ticket, irrespective of any inconvenience. LM are certainly making an impression but no friends. Lets hope they put the additional revenue raised this week into staff customer care courses.[/quote] Is anyone seriously surprised by this reaction on the part of over-zealous LM inspectors? We are talking here about thick, ignorant morons who think totally in straight lines, i.e. narrow tunnels, and who would probably have extreme difficulty getting a job anywhere else. These are the kind of people who, if Hitler and the Nazis had won WWII, would have been first in line for the jackboots! They just love bullying others and throwing their weight around. I expect they go home and beat their wives and children up for light entertainment. If they weren't ticket inspectors they'd be traffic wardens, immigration and customs officers or security guards swaggering around The Harlequin wih their caps over their eyes and a ravenous alsation at their side, looking to swoop on anyone they feel they can bully. Sending them to "charm school", i.e. "customer care" courses, is almost certainly a total waste of time since they will not have the brain capacity to understand what customer care is about. These are the sort of brain-dead people who stood by and either did nothing or applauded when Hitler came to power in Germany and, given, half a chance, they would do it in this country as well. We are talking about zombies who love wearing uniforms and oppressing others! Roy Stockdill

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James says...
9:33pm Thu 15 Nov 07

Bring back Silverlink!!!

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Lou says...
10:20pm Thu 15 Nov 07

The action of the DfT and the refusal of London Midland to accept Oyster is an example of disintegrated transport.

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Seamus says...
9:13am Fri 16 Nov 07

As far as I know, there is only one other route where rival TOCs operate in parallel with different fares and that is the London-Victoria Gatwick route. However, Gatwick Express will shortly transfer to Southern which will leave the Watford farce as the only example of this paricular kind of privatisation idiocy.
One reader says Oyster is valid on Southern from WJ - this highlights further confusion. According to the National Rail Oyster PAYG validity map the only excluded service is LL between H+W and WJ. However the map for the Freedom Pass (another variety of Oyster)excludes LM and Southern north of H+W!

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Nick says...
10:54am Fri 16 Nov 07

Why doesn't DfT just sort this issue out. I dread getting back to work next week with all this confusion. What I though was going to be a simple changeover, i.e. Watford Junction going into Zone A and Oyster being allowed in all shape and forms has completely been miscalculated. This is ruining Watford's image and is a nightmare for families wanting access to public transport on the weekends. So much more for looking forward to family days out in Central London with affordable prices. I am getting into a car from next year...

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Andy says...
11:35am Fri 16 Nov 07

Just wait to the fares change in January when the cheap day return fares are withdrawn and replaced by Oyster Pay as you go. From Bushey the choice will be £15.00 cash fare on the fast train or £3 Oyster PAYG on the slow line. Of course people will try to use the Oyster on the fast line train - wouldn't you to save £12 !

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Disbelieving! says...
1:05pm Fri 16 Nov 07

Noticed yesterday the Silverlink exemption from being fined for travelling in a 1st class compartment without a 1st class ticket on the Abbey Flyer between Wat Jn & St Albans has been removed by LM. Interesting to note they pay scrupulous attention to that level of detail but forget the blooming obvious with regard to the rest of the setup. I'm just glad my ST renewal was last week not in a few months when they decide to add who-knows-what % increase to pay for the extra inspectors & security staff at Euston who are merely delaying & annoying their long-term (and long-suffering!) customers.
Be even better to get the Abbey service to arrive at Watford Jn in time for fast trains during the "leaf fall" timetable. Why it takes 5 mins to travel from Watford North to the Junction but only 2 mins for the return journey along the same single track 10 mins later is a real mystery. Are these "special" leaves that only fall when trains are travelling toward the Junction.....?

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Disbelieving! says...
5:00pm Fri 16 Nov 07

Hmm! Just got home & there's a notice board at the stairs up to platforms 10 & 11 with a message saying London Midland will "accept Oyster Pay As You Go cards on all LM journeys between Watford Jn & Euston from Sunday 18th November". Nothing on their website, TfL or Wat Obs as far as I cna see. As usual, noone at Wat Jn able to confirm anything or whether Osyter wil be valid on the Abbey Line. At least they're consistently inconsistent ...

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Preety says...
10:58am Mon 19 Nov 07

I agree with, and have experienced all the above in the last week!
There was a notice at Watford Junction this morning stating that you CAN now use Oyster on London Midland lines between Watford Junction and Euston. Is this true? Were my eyes deceiving me? I didn't have time to confirm it with a memeber of staff, but don't believe it till I hear it!

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Robin Jordan says...
7:39am Tue 20 Nov 07

Confirmation can now be found on the LM website in the 'News' section!

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Sarah Dookhun says...
7:33pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Does anyone know if it true that London Midland is cancelling the 8.09am fast service from Bushey to London Euston? If this service is completely cancelled won't most us either be really early or very late to work? And that's if we are able to get on the trains which no doubt will be completely packed!

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David Wright says...
10:31am Wed 21 Nov 07

With regards to Sarah's last comment, I've picked up a copy of the new timetable this morning and we've been turned over by LM. The 0806 service from Watford Junction (the 0809 from Bushey) has been completely withdrawn. This leaves a huge gap in the timetable - from Watford Junction there are no trains between the 0757 and the 0816, if you are travelling from Bushey your trains are now an hour apart - 0749 and 0850. Two further services appear to have gone - the 0826 and the 0847. I don't know if anyone at the Observer is aware of this but they should be all over this, demanding answers from LM. A 19 minute gap in the middle of the rush hour is just not on - how crowded is the platform at the Junction going to be, never mind the trains themselves. A recipe for disaster I think.

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Bring Back Silverlink! says...
5:34pm Mon 10 Dec 07

According to LM website:

Some editions of the new printed timetable did not include the 0734 and 0756 Bletchley to Euston Monday-Friday services, calling at Watford Junction. In fact, there is no change to these services and London Midland has amended the printed timetable to include them. Posters are up at the relevant stations explaining the situation, and telephone and online booking services have the correct information.

So at least the 8.06 and 8.26 will be running, but what about the 8.47 from Watford Junction? this seems to have been scrapped so no fast trains from WJ to EUS from 8.34 until 9.03 - what a disgrace!

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cOnFuSeD says...
5:36pm Tue 11 Dec 07

Hi, was wondering if you guys could help me out....im a relative newbie to travelling by trains but now travel to london bridge every weekday by getting a weekly season ticket which costs me £62-00. If I were to get a pay -as-you-go Oyster card, could I travle on the fast train departing from platform 9 at Watford Junction? Plus would it cost me less than I am currently paying since I pay for a whole week, but with oyster I'd only be travelling 4 or 5 weekdays? Sorry for all the questions but the staff at the station are so uninformed and don't provide me with answers! I dont think they have a clue whats happening either! Who would think travelling to work or uni each morning would be so freaking confusing! :s

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Tim Stevenson says...
1:46pm Fri 4 Jan 08

I've just checked the LM website and it definitely says Oyster PAYG is valid (http://www.londonmi
dland.com/index.php/
cms/pages/view/76). 1st day travelling to WJ on the 7th - look out for some fireworks if the inspectors cause trouble!!

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John Sheldon says...
3:40am Sun 6 Jan 08

The Freedom Pass site clearly does not get updated very often, and when it does, not thoroughly. I suspect the map ought to have reflected the Novemeber 18th changes to validity between Watford Junction and Euston. Can anyone confirm?

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