Watford Muslim school debated by councillors (From Watford Observer)
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Watford Muslim school debated by councillors
10:47am Thursday 22nd July 2010 in
Plans for a Muslim primary school in Watford were again discussed by councillors last night.
Campaigners have been fighting to build the school, on a council-owned site in Tolpits Lane, for more than five years.
The Watford Muslim School Trust, set up to plan, fund and deliver the project, has now cleared most administrative hurdles, having secured planning permission, county council support and a land agreement with Watford Borough Council.
The Trust, however, is still working to secure funding, and is currently examining the potential benefits of the new coalition’s government’s free schools programme.
The subject was again discussed at a Watford Borough Council meeting last night, when local GP Dr Riffat Majeed stressed the need for the school – supported by new petition of more than 300 parents.
She argued Muslim children would perform better in a specialist faith school, adding that: “Muslim parents want the same choices that are available to other parents; to send their children to a faith school of their choice.”
Dorothy Thornhill, who believes the school could be up and running in as little as two years, agreed. She said: “Faith schools are legal. It should be no different for the Muslim community, the Jewish community, or any other community.
“We don’t believe that the Muslim community should be treated any differently. This is about choice and we are also 90 places short this year already – so this will help towards the shortage.”
Mayor Thornhill warned, however, that a private school would not be tolerated on the site, stressing that any development had to be open to all.
Councillor George Derbyshire also welcomed the principle of the school, but rejected any suggestion that schools in West Watford were failing Muslim children in any way.
Councillor Andrew Mortimer, meanwhile, warned against funding and services being diverted from other schools in the area.
Comments(40)
Reader (R)
says...
11:35am Thu 22 Jul 10
The Rover
says...
11:50am Thu 22 Jul 10
Garston Tony
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12:31pm Thu 22 Jul 10
crazyfrog
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1:25pm Thu 22 Jul 10
Garston Tony wrote:yes and caused by people like you Tony !
Mention the word Muslim and what a suprise (not), all the usual ignorance, prejudice and bigotry is spouted. It has already been stressed that this will NOT be a private school and therefore WILL be open to all not just Muslims. But just like Joan of Ark has a Christian slant this school will have a Muslim one. What is wrong with that? The ignorance and quite frankly blatant racism of Stacy, Reader and the Rover seeps out and smells like an overflowing portaloo at Glastonbury. And by the way, I am white, Christian and born in this country to a long long line of people born in this country. I used to be proud of this country despite all its faults, but whilst some of the problems we face can be attributed to too many immigrants being allowed into the country by far the majority of what is wrong with Britain is caused by WHITE BRITISH so call INDIGENOUS people.
This is wrong wrong wrong !
this is self inflicted apartheid, how can young muslims intergrate with this country if they are brought up in seperate schools?
it is quite outrageous that the council are even entertaining the idea
watfordboy3
says...
1:28pm Thu 22 Jul 10
Garston Tony
says...
2:45pm Thu 22 Jul 10
I say it again, the ONLY reason people are against this school is because of the Muslim connection and not an eyelid would be bat if it was going to be a Christian school for instance.
As a Christian I have faced a lot of bigotry over the years from my fellow Brits, but it isnt a patch on what the Muslim community gets and quite frankly I dont blame them for wanting to keep themselves to themselves if thats what some of them want to do.
And Crazyfrog the fact that you think those who are open minded, fair and not prejudiced are also to blame for social ills just goes to prove my point that many Brits should look at themselves before they blame anyone else for their problems.
The Rover
says...
3:19pm Thu 22 Jul 10
Garston Tony wrote:Tony, I would consider wanting a Muslim only school to be racist, not voicing my opinion in opposing it. I am all for equal opportunities and integration, rather than segregation. How can that be racist?
Mention the word Muslim and what a suprise (not), all the usual ignorance, prejudice and bigotry is spouted. It has already been stressed that this will NOT be a private school and therefore WILL be open to all not just Muslims. But just like Joan of Ark has a Christian slant this school will have a Muslim one. What is wrong with that? The ignorance and quite frankly blatant racism of Stacy, Reader and the Rover seeps out and smells like an overflowing portaloo at Glastonbury. And by the way, I am white, Christian and born in this country to a long long line of people born in this country. I used to be proud of this country despite all its faults, but whilst some of the problems we face can be attributed to too many immigrants being allowed into the country by far the majority of what is wrong with Britain is caused by WHITE BRITISH so call INDIGENOUS people.
Toshhorn
says...
4:02pm Thu 22 Jul 10
It is not racist to express opinions against other races or faiths, it only becomes so if you are abusive or rude.
Lets have it said, the majority of non muslem folk in this country are sick to death of them always getting their own way and crying racism when they don't.
Go to Mecca in a short skirt, see what happens, kiss a girl in public in Saudi Arabia, see what happens, try and marry an Muslim girl ,see what happens.
Go down the tube blow up and kill many innocent people then expect you faith to be repected???
After being blown up on trains and buses, is it racist to be wary of Asian people with ruck sacks or wearing Burka's (bearing in mind this is how one of the london bombers escaped).
Go to North Watford cemetary on a Friday afternoon and ask the Muslims why they are parking there then crossing the road to go to the Mosque, they cry racism but how are we supposed to visit our loved ones when they fill up the car park?
No not racism, just ordinary folk who have had enough and yes I know some smart thinking free spirits look down their noses at us but we are in the majority , so we should be listened to.
Stacy Hart
says...
7:37pm Thu 22 Jul 10
Stacy Hart
says...
9:57pm Thu 22 Jul 10
Therraw Ankers
says...
1:01am Fri 23 Jul 10
croxleyone
says...
7:44am Fri 23 Jul 10
Therraw Ankers
says...
8:19am Fri 23 Jul 10
croxleyone wrote:The land has a market value of around 1- 1.5 Million, if sold as a development site.
In the article there is no mention of cost, how much is the land worth that WBC are allowing to be used, is the land open space at the moment, how much will the build cost? Anyone out there know and will the cost come out of the WBC education budget. How many pupils are expected to go there?
As mentioned by in a recently deleted comment, this school trust is broke, so you can bet your bottom dollar that the money will eventually be given to Dorothys' chosen few, regardless of the fact that even though 300 Muslim parents want this school, another petition shows that over 1,000 people who live in the area are against this proposed development.
Therraw Ankers
says...
9:27am Fri 23 Jul 10
Garston Tony wrote:Would you send your kids to such a 'school', Tony?...
Mention the word Muslim and what a suprise (not), all the usual ignorance, prejudice and bigotry is spouted. It has already been stressed that this will NOT be a private school and therefore WILL be open to all not just Muslims. But just like Joan of Ark has a Christian slant this school will have a Muslim one. What is wrong with that? The ignorance and quite frankly blatant racism of Stacy, Reader and the Rover seeps out and smells like an overflowing portaloo at Glastonbury. And by the way, I am white, Christian and born in this country to a long long line of people born in this country. I used to be proud of this country despite all its faults, but whilst some of the problems we face can be attributed to too many immigrants being allowed into the country by far the majority of what is wrong with Britain is caused by WHITE BRITISH so call INDIGENOUS people.
Thought not....
croxleyone
says...
9:29am Fri 23 Jul 10
Garston Tony
says...
10:01am Fri 23 Jul 10
jesus loves you
says...
1:51pm Fri 23 Jul 10
I’m now waiting for the “racist” post afterwards…… That’s such an easy and pointless remark to make.
Enoch Powell
says...
10:19pm Fri 23 Jul 10
'Like a country busily engaged heaping up its own funeral pyre' Successive politicians' Mass Immigration Policies.
'Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population.' Successive politicians' Mass Immigration Policies.
Thank you Labour. Thank you Conservatives and mostly thank you former Labour Government advisor Andrew Neather, after honestly claiming that the Labour Party from 2001 onwards, set about a deliberate policy of encouraging mass third world immigration, to socially engineer a multicultural society. All done without a vote, referendum or mandate from the people. Part of the result, the advent of a Muslim Faith School. Thank you.
Garston Tony
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9:01am Sat 24 Jul 10
earth_chylde
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12:58pm Sat 24 Jul 10
Stacy Hart
says...
2:04pm Sat 24 Jul 10
earth_chylde wrote:Agree with you wholeheartedly earth-chylde...as for Tony,you keep spouting the word rascist at every opportunity alongside mine and a few others names on here who simply have a different opinion than yours,, a very serious and dangerous allegation to make and which sadly a minority of people like yourself make purely when people dont agree with you.As i've clearly stated before this article is about a muslim school so it would be pointless in talking about a malaysian school, but i'll do so anyway, i would say the same thing be it a jewish school (my grandads jewish by the way), or any other single faith school. whether your born here or you come here from abroad then you should live by that countries way and not try to force it to your own.Which is why i'm against English people flocking to spain and various other countries forming communities and opening up british pubs and chip shops, its wrong, just my opinion. Back to Schools, they should not be about faith, practice faith at home by all means, practice faith at your place of worship by all means but school should be for ALL children of all nationalities to be educated maths english, p.e etc full stop. When religeon is bought into anything it often causes trouble as previous & continuing wars have shown. We can all learn from each other and i have many friends of all nationalties that i'm able to share and learn many things from, they love going back to visit their homeland but they also share a belief that out of respect when your in rome you do as the romans do. :) xxx
Martin Luther King fought long and hard to stop segrigation... what a waste of his time.. we are going backwards!
Enoch Powell
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3:47pm Sat 24 Jul 10
jesus loves you
says...
9:01pm Sun 25 Jul 10
CallowlandChris
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10:33pm Sun 25 Jul 10
As someone who went to a good Church of England state school and a good secular state school, I can see the appeal of both approaches. On balance, I'd agree with most of what Tony has said (not sure there are more practising Muslims than Christians in this country though).
Enoch Powell's comments about Islam are desperately deluded. I'd say it's the aim of all religions to be the number one in any country - that goes without saying. However, the idea that it will become the largest religion in Britain is laughable. Over 95% of people in this country are white and the level of Islamic conversion amongst that demographic is tiny. You can scaremonger all you like but facts are not your friend.
Stacy: You said: "When religeon is bought into anything it often causes trouble as previous & continuing wars have shown."
I'm not going to defend al religious people, as many of them are nuts, but that is a desperately ignorant thing to say. The vast majority of wars and war fatalities of the past hundred years had jack all to do with religion: World War I and II, the various wars that made up the Cold War. Cambodia, communist china etc etc.
You might dislike something, but to blame it for all the world's problems is daft...
Enoch Powell
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10:52pm Sun 25 Jul 10
croxleyone
says...
8:32am Mon 26 Jul 10
Garston Tony
says...
1:04pm Mon 26 Jul 10
But that is by the by, the issue is about schools and if one faith group has the right to have schools of their faith then every faith should have that right. You can argue that there should be no faith schools but not that one group should be allowed them and another not. And I have used the word racist because some of the opinions and statements made HAVE been of that inclination.
On the note of religious wars, most religions abhor wars and violence and those wars, conflicts and attrocities that have and do take place in their name are against what does religions teach and are usually more to do with the very human goals of those that start them.
croxleyone
says...
3:11pm Mon 26 Jul 10
The Rover
says...
4:18pm Mon 26 Jul 10
Garston Tony wrote:Tony, I have not said that I oppose a Muslim school, I oppose any school which encourages segregation, and I consider wanting a Muslin-only school to be racist, rather than opposing it.
We are known as a Christian country but surely that is in name only now, as I said there are only around 1million people who attend a Christian church on regular basis out of a population of around 65 million. Many people would class themselves as Christian but you cant be a Christian if you don’t practise the faith as it is practising the faith that makes you a Christian in the first place and the vast majority of the population does not practise any religion. There are around 1.6 million practising Muslims making them the largest practising faith in this country.
But that is by the by, the issue is about schools and if one faith group has the right to have schools of their faith then every faith should have that right. You can argue that there should be no faith schools but not that one group should be allowed them and another not. And I have used the word racist because some of the opinions and statements made HAVE been of that inclination.
On the note of religious wars, most religions abhor wars and violence and those wars, conflicts and attrocities that have and do take place in their name are against what does religions teach and are usually more to do with the very human goals of those that start them.
I have been to mosques on numerous occasions and I am amazed at the number of people praying, and have even seen mosques so full that they are praying in the car park. You would never see that at a church in Watford. Without doubt Muslins follow their belief more closely than Christians. I am a Christian but do not go to church on a regular basis (unless you consider about once a year to be regular).
None of my comments have been racist, but I do disapprove of a state-funded Muslin School. That is not a racist comment.
CallowlandChris
says...
11:35pm Mon 26 Jul 10
The Rover wrote:Fair play - not racist. I have been to churches before that are very full. The more 'happy clappy' sort can be very popular in particular. Plus they are building a new church in Watford at the moment, despite the town already having more than I can count - so there clearly are a lot of Christians in the town. Regardles, there are clearly more christians (71.8%) in this country than muslims (2.8%).
Garston Tony wrote: We are known as a Christian country but surely that is in name only now, as I said there are only around 1million people who attend a Christian church on regular basis out of a population of around 65 million. Many people would class themselves as Christian but you cant be a Christian if you don’t practise the faith as it is practising the faith that makes you a Christian in the first place and the vast majority of the population does not practise any religion. There are around 1.6 million practising Muslims making them the largest practising faith in this country. But that is by the by, the issue is about schools and if one faith group has the right to have schools of their faith then every faith should have that right. You can argue that there should be no faith schools but not that one group should be allowed them and another not. And I have used the word racist because some of the opinions and statements made HAVE been of that inclination. On the note of religious wars, most religions abhor wars and violence and those wars, conflicts and attrocities that have and do take place in their name are against what does religions teach and are usually more to do with the very human goals of those that start them.Tony, I have not said that I oppose a Muslim school, I oppose any school which encourages segregation, and I consider wanting a Muslin-only school to be racist, rather than opposing it. I have been to mosques on numerous occasions and I am amazed at the number of people praying, and have even seen mosques so full that they are praying in the car park. You would never see that at a church in Watford. Without doubt Muslins follow their belief more closely than Christians. I am a Christian but do not go to church on a regular basis (unless you consider about once a year to be regular). None of my comments have been racist, but I do disapprove of a state-funded Muslin School. That is not a racist comment.
CallowlandChris
says...
11:42pm Mon 26 Jul 10
Enoch Powell wrote:Yes, i'll hold my hands up for that mistake. Only 4.8% of the population are asian, but that does not mean that over 95% are white, as there are other groupings. My general point stands though: only 2.8% of the population are muslim. That might have since crept up to 3%, but these are miniscule figures and to suggest otherwise is just racist scaremongering by our BNP friends.
Callowland Chris says my remarks about the Islamic demograhic in this County are deluded. I think he is having a laugh. Most Muslims in the Uk have circa 4 children on average if not more, and the demographic for the White British is 1.7. That is not racism but a statistical fact. Add in Mass Immigration, arranged marriages etc and my 'scaremongering' will become reality more quickly than you can imagine. He says 95% of people in the UK are white. It didn't say that in the 2001 census (91.8%) and that was before Labour embarked on their plan to rub people's noses into diversity through Mass Immigration from the thirld world as former Labour speech writer Andrew Neather has admitted. Therefore, it is Callowland Chris who has got his facts wrong. He says it is the desire of all religions to be the majority in a country and he is actually right. I am happy with the status quo with Christians in the ascendency and have not asked for that to change. I would like to know if Chris agrees with me as far as the act of consent is concerned.
Two quick points:
1) Even though Muslim Brits have a higher birthrate than non-Muslim Brits, the rate is insufficient to make the kind of fundmental demographic changes that Enoch is trying to delude people with.
2) Their birthrate is likely to fall over time - as all birthrates have done in the West (look at Catholics in Italy if you don't believe me).
Garston Tony
says...
9:34am Tue 27 Jul 10
The Rover fair enough if you are against all faith schools that is consistent, my point was that in your original post you said a line had to be drawn and you were drawing it in that post at Muslim schools, not at all faith schools.
croxleyone
says...
3:17pm Tue 27 Jul 10
Enoch Powell
says...
9:38pm Tue 27 Jul 10
CallowlandChris
says...
11:05pm Tue 27 Jul 10
Given how opposed the other big countries in Europe are to Turkey joining the EU, you need to worry about that one.
Tower Hamlets is one extreme. Go to Cornwall and you may see that I have a point!
The only people exaggerating the 'Islamic demographic' are racists and fascists!
Labour tightened up immigration on their way out and the ConDem coalition are tightening it up even more, so Enoch you can chill out!
croxleyone
says...
10:49am Wed 28 Jul 10
Enoch Powell
says...
7:36pm Wed 28 Jul 10
CallowlandChris
says...
10:17pm Wed 28 Jul 10
If you are too paranoid to believe the census figures then that's your problem.
The 'racist and fascist' comment was in response to your 'Asian journalists and liberals' quip. However, if your agenda is to whip up resentment about people who look different from you by exaggerating the rate of population growth then yes - that does make you a racist.
No, Tower Hamlets is an extreme example. Just as rural Cornwall is the other way. In response to your list: rural England, Wales, Scotland (excluding the big cities), east anglia, Harrogate, York etc etc. You get the idea. That over 90% of the population are white suggests that a lot of places are very white indeed!
I'd agree with your analysis of Northern Ireland, but the ratio was closer to 50:50 anyway.
Sorry Enoch, I have already won this argument. The fact you may be a racist hard-right type is but an incidental footnote!
Enoch Powell
says...
7:49am Thu 29 Jul 10
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Stacy Hart says...
11:33am Thu 22 Jul 10