Pub releases CCTV footage of apparition seen by radio presenter (From Watford Observer)

What a load of rubbish! Ghosts dont even exist, let alone in that video

Watched the CCTV five times now and still cant see anything.

inayellowshirt wrote:
Watched the CCTV five times now and still cant see anything.

How spooky is that? Cars in a car park!

cant watch any CCTV, only a load of adverts!

Awful... a little help where to look and when wouldnt go a miss, I've just watched the whole thing and seen nothing! :-|

Wrighty_Hornet wrote:
Awful... a little help where to look and when wouldnt go a miss, I've just watched the whole thing and seen nothing! :-|

I agree. Would like to know where and when to look.

This just goes to prove that only "certain" people see ghosts !!!!

Reminds me of the Headless Horsemen in 'Ask a policeman' He was used to scare people away from a smuggling gang!

Are they trying to scare us away from the pub....... Or scare us into it??????

Still nice pub, nice ale and nice atmosphere! Always had a drink in there when my mate was getting his 356 serviced!

Though it doesn't seem to mention it in the story, Darren Fernando is a presenter on Vibe107.6FM, which only launched in Watford last August and, I suspect, probably has about 14 listeners and a dog.

Methinks perhaps the station could do with a bit of publicity? Hmmmmmmm...!

Darren's profile on the station's website also indicates in his replies to a number of questions that he is not averse to a drink or three - AND it was 4.02. a.m.

I've looked at the video with a magnifying glass and all my (admittedly elderly) eyes can see are a couple of parked cars, what looks like three damp patches on the car park surface and what COULD be a bit of mist or something moving in the centre of the camera lens, which is very probably just a fault in a dodgy CCTV camera.

As for the comments by the spokesman for the Abbots Langley paranormal group (whatever that is) about the village having a rich history, just about every village in the country goes back hundreds of years and millions of people will have lived and died in them over the centuries, so why aren't there more ghost sightings than there are people alive today?

Can't believe I read the comments here and STILL too at look at the video! What a waste of time!

At that time of the morning it was probably Trigger pulling Ernie`s milk cart.

Sounds like he needs to lay off the crack.

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Though it doesn't seem to mention it in the story, Darren Fernando is a presenter on Vibe107.6FM, which only launched in Watford last August and, I suspect, probably has about 14 listeners and a dog. Methinks perhaps the station could do with a bit of publicity? Hmmmmmmm...! Darren's profile on the station's website also indicates in his replies to a number of questions that he is not averse to a drink or three - AND it was 4.02. a.m. I've looked at the video with a magnifying glass and all my (admittedly elderly) eyes can see are a couple of parked cars, what looks like three damp patches on the car park surface and what COULD be a bit of mist or something moving in the centre of the camera lens, which is very probably just a fault in a dodgy CCTV camera. As for the comments by the spokesman for the Abbots Langley paranormal group (whatever that is) about the village having a rich history, just about every village in the country goes back hundreds of years and millions of people will have lived and died in them over the centuries, so why aren't there more ghost sightings than there are people alive today?

Total publicity stunt not only for this "Radio Presenter" but of course the pub will say, "hey yes we have ghosts" its free publicity for them too!!!
In my opinion this guy needs to STFU and get his eyes sorted out.... and thats FOR REAL (have a look?!)

I suspect the only spirits he saw came out of a bottle

Roy after reading his profile he seems a real idiot reading his profile... and 35 on a youth radio station, where is the "youth" in that (other than the "odd" and immoral sort!!!!!) A definate eye test for this guy and maybe a LOT more is needed!!!!

Seriously, did no one at the WO look at the video before putting it on the site? Thats a couple of minutes i'm not going to get back (yes despite all the posts saying nothing there I still looked at it myself).

Was this video all about the 26seconds of advert at the beginning rather than the 91secs of nothing?

Its hard to say what I saw but whatever it was its freaking scary and I want no more part of this..

I watched the video, then read the comments - wish I'd done it the other way round. This isn't journalism, you should be ashamed of this piece Amie. The ramblings of some desperate-for-public
ity DJ and a video showing a pub car park are NOT the bedrock upon which Pulitzer Prizes are won (or upon which jobs are kept).

Well, you must have seen something that nobody else saw! Or you are just trying to wind people up.

BTW, the paid-for Watford Observer devoted two-thirds of a page (page 22) yesterday to the story and even published a mock-up of Mr Fernando looking out of his window at an artist's drawing of a ghostly coach and horses.

It seems to me that Mr Fernando has done pretty well out of the publicity so far and perhaps it's time to pull the plug.

The WO team admitted at the end of the story that they couldn't see anything in the video, either, but asked readers to look at it. Pity they didn't say that above.

The only flaw in this story was that the pub was called the Royal Oak and not the Coach and Horses. Now, if I had been responsible for it I would have claimed I'd seen not a ghostly horse and carriage but Charles II climbing up to hide in his oak tree after the Battle of Worcester!

Just to point out that my comments were directed at watfordrick and not The Not-so-enlightened one, who must have just beaten me to the post (so to speak).

As a final comment, can I just add that in over 40 years on local and national newspapers I investigated a number of reports of ghosts and other alleged phenomena such as poltergeists and never found one that stood up to serious scrutiny. I think I can say I know a "creatively manufactured" story when I see one!

As a Professional Paranormal Investigator with NLPI, My job is to investigate any reported Paranormal Activity or UFO sightings. We do not attempt to convince others of any existence of either. WE DO interview in detail any witnesses and examine in great detail any evidence presented to us. Once we are satisfied that a case merits an Investigation, we asemble a team of Experienced Professionals and using a host of specialist High Tech equipment attempt to gather our own CLEAR evidence to support the report. All the evidence is examined for days and by various team members. Our findings are then published to an online paranormal database and our website.
The Radio Presenter may indeed seek publicity or indeed the pub but from experience, Both parties are in a position to have created something a bid more interesting.
Everyone is entitled to their own views. Some believe in ghost and some don't! Some see things and some don't, Some of us like football and some don't. We all accept the "air" that we breathe but we can't see it. So do we have to see something to believe it? My personal view is that I have experienced so many things in my life that I am just seeking an explanation for. I have seen things, Witnessed things, Heard things and most of these have been recorded and documented.
We regularly conduct private and public Investigations and suggest that one should attend a public investigation or "Ghost hunt"! This should put one in the right Location, Time, Conditions and atmosphere to experience something unexplained although there is no guarantee of seeing a "Ghost", The experience of a "Ghost Hunt" can be "Eye opening".
We come across many people from all walks of life. Many who can be classed as Professional People, who have reported sightings and experiences to us! All of them believed that have witnessed something.
People make claims to have investigated reports over so many years. It is my view that its not how long you have been investigating but the quality of the investigation and the professionalism that can only come with experience. We have a whole network of Paranormal Investigators available to assist us with our investigations, such as Historians, Archaelogists, National Archives etc. So we do a proper job! Technology has changed in 40 years and Unless one has access to Paranormal Equipment freely, I doubt very much that, unless the Paranormal is your field, that one would not invest in the cost of such equipment and therefore not provide a comprehensive and accurate conclusion.
ADVICE: Please do not be put off by claims that "ghosts don't exist". if you have experienced something and you wish to report it then do so! NLPI as a group treat all genuine reporting s to us seriously, We only Investigate after examining any evidence, Witness statements and a visit to the Location if the case merits it!

I don't intend to answer the above lengthy post point by point, but I will make a couple of observations.

1) As a former journalist, as I said above, I think I have a fairly open mind on most things and I also have a small but varied library of books on the paranormal acquired over the years because I used to be a book reviewer. But I also have the journalist's natural cynicism and it has always seemed significant to me that the great majority of alleged ghost sightings and what might be termed "unusual incidents" seem to centre on old houses with a colourful history or on stately homes, pubs and historic sites open to the paying public that have an inevitable interest in encouraging such tales. We don't seem to hear many ghostly stories about haunted council houses, semis, modern flats,, supermarkets and coffee shops!

2) I recall a number of stories I worked on about supposed poltergeists hurling things around the room, causing chaos by moving furniture and other bizarre events. Almost always, there turned out to be a disturbed child or teenager in the family who was behind it all.

BTW, as a matter of interest, how does a Professional Paranormal Investigator make a living? Who pays you?

Paranormal Investigators mainly work Part time Voluntarily. They usually have a full time job. Some of our investigators are: a female lead singer of a band, A former Police officer and Close protection officer and a Pub Landlord. We don't get paid! BUT if we are asked by a Private individual to conduct any sort of work that involves costs then we ask for the costs to be paid.
We have only recently decided to run "Ghost Hunts" for the public but again the cost of the tickets covers the Hire of the Venue and staff.
Quote: "We don't seem to hear many ghostly stories about haunted council houses, semis, modern flats,, supermarkets and coffee shops!"
Thats correct! But why is that? We also don't hear about the Domestic Violence that our neighbours engage in behind closed doors. Because violent Incidents are report to the Police and not generally Publicised. As Paranormal Investigators "Ghostbusters" ;) We get all sorts of reports from clients who wish to remain anonymous and I guess come to the professional first for advice and support as opposed to going to the newspapers!
It was only three weeks ago that we received an urgent call from the Mother of a young family who was experiencing Poltergeist Activity. She , along with her partner were concerned for the safety of the children. AGED 7 months and 2 years. So the NLPI Team attended at her request and were able to "Stop" the activity. She reports that her children have slept peaceful since. Her house was an 18 years old Council House. but as we did a Proper Investigation we were able to establish what the land was used for previously.
The Famous Enfield Poltergeist case occurred in a council house. A LARGE supermarket in Knutsford Cheshire reports to be haunted. it is beside the Police station and build on the site of a former Prison. Barclays Bank in Wood Green - The staff always report to me activity. Halifax Bank in wood green is also active as it was the site of the Former WOOD GREEN EMPIRE. As you Know, Experience and knowledge is second to none and I would be happy for you to join us on an investigation.

This is the biggest load of tosh ever! Darren Fernando, the 35 year old so-called Radio Presenter on a "youth" radio station is clearly in a good position to have an experience like this... Well Done!

North London Paranormal Investigations wrote:
Paranormal Investigators mainly work Part time Voluntarily. They usually have a full time job. Some of our investigators are: a female lead singer of a band, A former Police officer and Close protection officer and a Pub Landlord. We don't get paid! BUT if we are asked by a Private individual to conduct any sort of work that involves costs then we ask for the costs to be paid.
We have only recently decided to run "Ghost Hunts" for the public but again the cost of the tickets covers the Hire of the Venue and staff.
Quote: "We don't seem to hear many ghostly stories about haunted council houses, semis, modern flats,, supermarkets and coffee shops!"
Thats correct! But why is that? We also don't hear about the Domestic Violence that our neighbours engage in behind closed doors. Because violent Incidents are report to the Police and not generally Publicised. As Paranormal Investigators "Ghostbusters" ;) We get all sorts of reports from clients who wish to remain anonymous and I guess come to the professional first for advice and support as opposed to going to the newspapers!
It was only three weeks ago that we received an urgent call from the Mother of a young family who was experiencing Poltergeist Activity. She , along with her partner were concerned for the safety of the children. AGED 7 months and 2 years. So the NLPI Team attended at her request and were able to "Stop" the activity. She reports that her children have slept peaceful since. Her house was an 18 years old Council House. but as we did a Proper Investigation we were able to establish what the land was used for previously.
The Famous Enfield Poltergeist case occurred in a council house. A LARGE supermarket in Knutsford Cheshire reports to be haunted. it is beside the Police station and build on the site of a former Prison. Barclays Bank in Wood Green - The staff always report to me activity. Halifax Bank in wood green is also active as it was the site of the Former WOOD GREEN EMPIRE. As you Know, Experience and knowledge is second to none and I would be happy for you to join us on an investigation.

So you are not professional by any definition i.e earning a living by your expertise... you appear to be trying to prove the existance and I quote from your own website

"Paranormal Activity, The Dark, Ghosts and spirits. Demons and Witches, Werewolves and Vampires. UFO's and Aliens. The unknown makes us all fear and fear well!

The objective of the North London Paranormal Investigations Team of volunteers is to investigate the unknown with a view to providing evidence of phenomena"

SO if its not the Radio presenter looking for publicity, or the Pub, it must be you.... Or are you going to do a 'Proper Investigation' (Your Caps)

North London Paranormal Investigations wrote:
Paranormal Investigators mainly work Part time Voluntarily. They usually have a full time job. Some of our investigators are: a female lead singer of a band, A former Police officer and Close protection officer and a Pub Landlord. We don't get paid! BUT if we are asked by a Private individual to conduct any sort of work that involves costs then we ask for the costs to be paid.
We have only recently decided to run "Ghost Hunts" for the public but again the cost of the tickets covers the Hire of the Venue and staff.
Quote: "We don't seem to hear many ghostly stories about haunted council houses, semis, modern flats,, supermarkets and coffee shops!"
Thats correct! But why is that? We also don't hear about the Domestic Violence that our neighbours engage in behind closed doors. Because violent Incidents are report to the Police and not generally Publicised. As Paranormal Investigators "Ghostbusters" ;) We get all sorts of reports from clients who wish to remain anonymous and I guess come to the professional first for advice and support as opposed to going to the newspapers!
It was only three weeks ago that we received an urgent call from the Mother of a young family who was experiencing Poltergeist Activity. She , along with her partner were concerned for the safety of the children. AGED 7 months and 2 years. So the NLPI Team attended at her request and were able to "Stop" the activity. She reports that her children have slept peaceful since. Her house was an 18 years old Council House. but as we did a Proper Investigation we were able to establish what the land was used for previously.
The Famous Enfield Poltergeist case occurred in a council house. A LARGE supermarket in Knutsford Cheshire reports to be haunted. it is beside the Police station and build on the site of a former Prison. Barclays Bank in Wood Green - The staff always report to me activity. Halifax Bank in wood green is also active as it was the site of the Former WOOD GREEN EMPIRE. As you Know, Experience and knowledge is second to none and I would be happy for you to join us on an investigation.

So you are not professional by any definition i.e earning a living by your expertise... you appear to be trying to prove the existance and I quote from your own website

"Paranormal Activity, The Dark, Ghosts and spirits. Demons and Witches, Werewolves and Vampires. UFO's and Aliens. The unknown makes us all fear and fear well!

The objective of the North London Paranormal Investigations Team of volunteers is to investigate the unknown with a view to providing evidence of phenomena"

SO if its not the Radio presenter looking for publicity, or the Pub, it must be you.... Or are you going to do a 'Proper Investigation' (Your Caps)

After all you are now advertising the story on your own website..

I saw it, I saw it, obviously the carriage wheels have been recently painted white and left two white stripes on the ground, must get wide to expain the 'damp patch' tho

I saw it, I saw it, obviously the carriage wheels have been recently painted white and left two white stripes on the ground, must get wide to expain the 'damp patch' tho

Even if you did believe in dead people coming back as ghosts etc what are the horses and carriage all about? Are there animals that feel they have somehow been wronged and feel the need to come back and haunt humans? And when not taking part in hauntings are the ghosts taking up woodwork in order to build other wordly carriages to transport them around?

Even if you did believe in dead people coming back as ghosts etc what are the horses and carriage all about? Are there animals that feel they have somehow been wronged and feel the need to come back and haunt humans? And when not taking part in hauntings are the ghosts taking up woodwork in order to build other wordly carriages to transport them around?

What a con.... I have watched it and all I can say is at least the cars are safe....

micromouse wrote:

North London Paranormal Investigations wrote:
Paranormal Investigators mainly work Part time Voluntarily. They usually have a full time job. Some of our investigators are: a female lead singer of a band, A former Police officer and Close protection officer and a Pub Landlord. We don't get paid! BUT if we are asked by a Private individual to conduct any sort of work that involves costs then we ask for the costs to be paid.
We have only recently decided to run "Ghost Hunts" for the public but again the cost of the tickets covers the Hire of the Venue and staff.
Quote: "We don't seem to hear many ghostly stories about haunted council houses, semis, modern flats,, supermarkets and coffee shops!"
Thats correct! But why is that? We also don't hear about the Domestic Violence that our neighbours engage in behind closed doors. Because violent Incidents are report to the Police and not generally Publicised. As Paranormal Investigators "Ghostbusters" ;) We get all sorts of reports from clients who wish to remain anonymous and I guess come to the professional first for advice and support as opposed to going to the newspapers!
It was only three weeks ago that we received an urgent call from the Mother of a young family who was experiencing Poltergeist Activity. She , along with her partner were concerned for the safety of the children. AGED 7 months and 2 years. So the NLPI Team attended at her request and were able to "Stop" the activity. She reports that her children have slept peaceful since. Her house was an 18 years old Council House. but as we did a Proper Investigation we were able to establish what the land was used for previously.
The Famous Enfield Poltergeist case occurred in a council house. A LARGE supermarket in Knutsford Cheshire reports to be haunted. it is beside the Police station and build on the site of a former Prison. Barclays Bank in Wood Green - The staff always report to me activity. Halifax Bank in wood green is also active as it was the site of the Former WOOD GREEN EMPIRE. As you Know, Experience and knowledge is second to none and I would be happy for you to join us on an investigation.

So you are not professional by any definition i.e earning a living by your expertise... you appear to be trying to prove the existance and I quote from your own website

"Paranormal Activity, The Dark, Ghosts and spirits. Demons and Witches, Werewolves and Vampires. UFO's and Aliens. The unknown makes us all fear and fear well!

The objective of the North London Paranormal Investigations Team of volunteers is to investigate the unknown with a view to providing evidence of phenomena"

SO if its not the Radio presenter looking for publicity, or the Pub, it must be you.... Or are you going to do a 'Proper Investigation' (Your Caps)

After all you are now advertising the story on your own website..

micromouse wrote:So you are not professional by any definition i.e earning a living by your expertise...

Volunteer - "To do charitable or helpful work without pay". A Special Constable, St. Johns Ambulance, Volunteer firefighters, Teritorial Army, RNLI Volunteers and Advice workers all use their professional training and experience to help others. Are you saying that there are no sucn things as a Professional Volunteer?

micromouse wrote: you appear to be trying to prove the existance and I quote from your own website "Paranormal Activity, The Dark, Ghosts and spirits. Demons and Witches, Werewolves and Vampires. UFO's and Aliens. The unknown makes us all fear and fear well! The objective of the North London Paranormal Investigations Team of volunteers is to investigate the unknown with a view to providing evidence of phenomena"

We investigate the unknown and make public our findings. If we have evidence that we cannot explain then we report as such. Its up to the Individual to draw ones own conclusion. We as a group attempt to capture Evidence of Paranormal Existence by using apecialist equipment.

micromouse wrote: SO if its not the Radio presenter looking for publicity, or the Pub, it must be you.... Or are you going to do a 'Proper Investigation' (Your Caps) After all you are now advertising the story on your own website..

Are you Crazy? Of course I want Publicity. Or else I would not be here watching grown ups having a little dig at each other over ones beliefs and having to respond to Absolute pointless comments.

Its a shame that more people don't come forward and report their experiences. This is mainly due to the reactions and comments from people like yourself, With all due respect!

And why should I not publicise the story on my website? we publicise many current and relevant local experiences, UFO sightsing over Tottenham etc...

UFO sighting over Tottenham? That must have been Harry Redknapp paying a flying visit to his bank!

Roy Stockdill wrote:
UFO sighting over Tottenham? That must have been Harry Redknapp paying a flying visit to his bank!

LOL UFO's are now the new TAX exempt service for all

Roy Stockdill wrote:
UFO sighting over Tottenham? That must have been Harry Redknapp paying a flying visit to his bank!

FACT: The Bottom line is that People in the UK have been and are current reporting a record number of "UFOs" and "Paranormal incidents". On our website (Plug - Plug - Plug) we have UFO Reports 1997-2009 in the UK reported to the Ministry Of Defence. (Plug - Plug - Plug). I recommend having a look. Its makes interesting reading.. Whatever your Beliefs.
Next you'll be telling me that there's no Santa... ;)

Gullible people will always report something unusual, often to draw attention to themselves or because it's something they don't understand. I have a very simple philosophy of life - ALWAYS look for the simplest and most obvious solution before you start prattling on about UFOs and the paranormal, etc. My knowledge of the subject is, admittedly, probably not as extensive as yours, but it's my understanding that 99.9 per cent of UFO reports are usually explained away with a simple, physical causation.

The same theory applies to crop circles which some people claim are made by extra-terrestrials. They are, quite simply, the work of hoaxers.

Admittedly, there is nothing much to be seen in the video footage accompanying this article, and of course crop circles were shown be the work of hoaxers, but it still takes an incredible arrogance to assume that just because you haven't personally witnessed something unusual, it therefore can't exist. It's arrogant to assume that human forms are the only entity that can exist, either in the living universe, or otherwise. If you don't believe it's possible then that's fine, but you can't prove anything, one way or the other, no-body can, so each is entitled to their own beliefs without being told that they are wrong or stupid or gullible.

On a completely separate note, if half of the authors of the comments on this page actually wrote columns for the Watford Observer, it would be a far more interesting read - probably with better use of the english language, spelling and grammar to boot!

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Gullible people will always report something unusual, often to draw attention to themselves or because it's something they don't understand. I have a very simple philosophy of life - ALWAYS look for the simplest and most obvious solution before you start prattling on about UFOs and the paranormal, etc. My knowledge of the subject is, admittedly, probably not as extensive as yours, but it's my understanding that 99.9 per cent of UFO reports are usually explained away with a simple, physical causation.

The same theory applies to crop circles which some people claim are made by extra-terrestrials. They are, quite simply, the work of hoaxers.

Its Evident by your comments that you have no knowledge at all! If you did the smallest amount of research you would have answered differently! I Highly recommend that you at least watch 1 of the Videos that we have on the subject (Youtube). Or look at at least 1 of the UFO reports and be a little open minded! Lots of reports are made by UK Civilian airline pilots and police officers. SO I for one am very worried! Not by attack from aliens from outer space,but by the gullible people of this planet, Some with high profile professional Careers who have noting better to do that Complete pages and Pages of a UFO report! The reason we post Videos on our site is to make the general public a bit more aware of what may be happening! And where did you get 99.9% from!

And as for Crop circles.... I agree Most are fake! The fake crop circles are very good save for the fact that the crop is always damaged and appears squashed. A little known fact is that the Nodes of the crop of a "Genuine" Crop circle usually have exploded. Subjected to High Temp which causes the Node to Boil and produce steam. There are usually No pressure mark in the crop and they are undamaged with trace radiation detected.. Roy. It would give me the greatest of pleasure to continue our debate elsewhere. Maybe you'll attend one of our events and meet some Gullible people wishing to draw attention to themselves. On a serious note, I would rather have all the information and draw my Informed conclusions than to the join the flock of sheep!

miss_caz wrote:
What a con.... I have watched it and all I can say is at least the cars are safe....

Actually, the quality of the video was so poor that if a car was stolen you'd be unlikely to see any detail!

North London Paranormal Investigations wrote:

Roy Stockdill wrote: UFO sighting over Tottenham? That must have been Harry Redknapp paying a flying visit to his bank!

FACT: The Bottom line is that People in the UK have been and are current reporting a record number of "UFOs" and "Paranormal incidents". On our website (Plug - Plug - Plug) we have UFO Reports 1997-2009 in the UK reported to the Ministry Of Defence. (Plug - Plug - Plug). I recommend having a look. Its makes interesting reading.. Whatever your Beliefs. Next you'll be telling me that there's no Santa... ;)

FACT the abuse of drugs and alcohol is probably at an all time high in our society

FACT some people watch too much television and believe everything they see even when the program is 100% ficticious

FACT some people DO just want attention

I'm not saying that people dont genuinly believe to have seen ghosts and ufo's etc. however something NLPI said in their first post sums it up. They were talking about their ghost hunts and about how with the right location, atmosphere etc people are better tuned to see things.

I've seen enough research to know that given the right conditioning people WILL believe they have seen or felt a ghost or their presence when the reality is that there is either a rational explanation for an occurance or nothing actually happened.

Having said people watch too much television Derren Brown has done some excellent programs on this type of psychological phenomenon and how the mind can be tricked either through coincidence or by the design of someone else into believing all sorts including ghosts etc. when there is actually nothing there or a trick involved

There was also an episode of the gadget show where they showed how by controling temperature, using magnetic fields and other covert things (which could occur naturally) it was possibe to create a spooky atmosphere.

The existence of ghosts, aliens, life after death etc. still can't be disproved. You will have to be content with conceding that you have a viewpoint and an opinion but cannot tell everybody else that they are wrong and that no-body can experience these things.

Other than a few 'lights' moving across the car park there's nothing there out of the ordinary... But I'd be prepared to bet that they were nothing more than car lights from passing cars...

Many years ago, as a national newspaper journalist, I did a lengthy investigation into Spiritualism and went to a number of meetings where mediums supposedly gave messages to members of the audience from their loved ones from "beyond the grave". It didn't take me long to work out the techniques the mediums were using.

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of people attending these meetings were in a state of mind that made them wide open to gullibility, and they were desperate to receive a message, I noticed that the mediums employed a series of clever psychological tricks to extract information from their subjects without them realising it. The medium would start off by asking something very basic like "Does the name Harry mean anything to anyone here tonight?", at which a dozen or more would put their hands up. Gradually, the medium would eliminate most of the hopefuls until, by asking a further series of questions, he/she would "home in" on one particular person and give them what seemed to be a remarkably accurate message. Simple psychology, that's all, and certainly not evidence of life after death!

Probably not many folks will remember a very famous medium called Doris Stokes who long ago "passed over to the other side", as the saying goes. A little homely old lady and granny, she used to pack out halls throughout the country simply by sitting on the stage in a floral frock and chatting to her supposed "spirits" who she claimed were chattering in her ear. Many believers worshipped her and swore they'd received an incredibly accurate message through her from a loved one. Then I read an expose (not mine, sadly) in a newspaper that revealed how she did it: hundreds of people used to write to her telling her all about themselves and who they wanted to contact. Doris kept all the letters and would then send them free tickets if she was giving a performance in their area. She obviously had a good memory and was well primed in advance, because she would pick on this particular person and deliver an astonishingly accurate message, the subject often forgetting that they'd given her loads of information about themselves in advance.

Clever, clever! But not evidence of an afterlife.....(discu
ss).

Roy if you've not seen Derren Brown's programs on mediums etc. you should look out for them. Even in his stage shows he'll often replicate some of the tricks done by fake mediums when they were at their height of popularity. He's quite clear however that all that happens, no matter how astonishing it looks, is just a trick and on the few times that he reveals exactly how it works it is extremely clever. But still a trick, a con if someone is genuinely passing it off as a 'gift' they have.

Cathbal66, maybe the existence of ghosts, the afterlife, aliens etc can not be disproved but all too often sightings, mediums etc. have been proven to be myths, hoax's and hoaxers or tricks of the mind or have no evidence to back them up at all or there are genuine rational non other worldly explanations for what has taken place. Whenever there is a sighting or whatever there is ALWAYS doubt as to its validity and ALWAYS an absolute lack of evidence beyond the very tenuous. The above video being a great example.

garston tony wrote:
I'm not saying that people dont genuinly believe to have seen ghosts and ufo's etc. however something NLPI said in their first post sums it up. They were talking about their ghost hunts and about how with the right location, atmosphere etc people are better tuned to see things.

I've seen enough research to know that given the right conditioning people WILL believe they have seen or felt a ghost or their presence when the reality is that there is either a rational explanation for an occurance or nothing actually happened.

Having said people watch too much television Derren Brown has done some excellent programs on this type of psychological phenomenon and how the mind can be tricked either through coincidence or by the design of someone else into believing all sorts including ghosts etc. when there is actually nothing there or a trick involved

Thank you Garston Tony for an interesting response. NLPI have a number of videos that we stream on our site but originate from Youtube. One on the videos we host is "Derren brown investigates : THE GHOSTHUNTER. Derren meets Lou Gentile, a top American ghost hunter who for the last 20 years, has been helping people rid themselves of unwanted ghostly companions.

Lou not only claims that he can prove the existence of spirits, but that they are sometimes powerful enough to kill."

When you watch this it actually gives "Ghosthunters a bad name" It debunks the EVP recordings and proves how the mind can be deceived. The Ghosthunter was not very good at his job. We thought this was interesting as it shows how we can be decieved and how easy it is to believe "Suggestions".

As a group, We look at 100's of hours of evidence and you soon get used to what to look for. Our theory is, if it cannot be readily identified at first glance then its dismissed as Clear evidence of "Something". As a group, We just want to find out what the "Somethings" Are.

And by the way, I was a sceptic once.

Google - Derren Brown Investigates: The Ghosthunter

This is a great show and is worth watching as it actually proves how easy it is to "Suggest" and "Deceive". Another Spoon bender? I am sure you will enjoy this Roy as it proves there are fakes in our "Field".