Watford politicians split over fate of health campus allotments

Watford Health Campus embroiled in political row Watford Health Campus embroiled in political row

The Watford Health Campus became embroiled in a political row this week as borough councillors split over whether allotment land should be used in the project.

At a full Watford Borough Council meeting on Wednesday the opposition Labour party tabled a motion calling on the ruling Liberal Democrat group to protect the Farm Terrace Allotments.

However ruling Liberal Democrats rejected the idea, saying it would be tying their hands behind their back in the negotiations over the £1bn project.

The council is set to decide on a private developer to carry out the project, which will see a new hospital, hundreds of new homes and new businesses built on the land behind Vicarage Road .

Last month plot-holders were told the Farm Terrace Allotments, which were originally preserved in health campus, may need to be built on to make the scheme viable.

At the meeting Labour leader Nigel Bell said the allotments should be put above the profit margins of developers. He said: “Commercial developers are seeking to incorporate the Farm Terrace Allotments into the health campus project in order to gain greater financial profit for themselves.

The move provoked an angry response from the Liberal Democrats who accused Labour of playing politics with the £1bn scheme.

Liberal Democrat George Derbyshire said: “This motion is nothing more than a cynical attempt to use a localised issue to political advantage with complete disregard for the people of Watford.”

Other senior Liberal Demcrats accused Councillor Bell of “flip-flopping” saying he had not mentioned his concerns about the allotments when he first heard they may be used in the Health Campus at a private meeting.

Labour’s Asif Khan responded by saying the Liberal Democrats were “playing the man not the ball” with their attacks on Councillor Bell.

Extending the football analogy, Liberal Democrat cabinet member Derek Scudder compared Labour’s motion to tying the council’s hands behind its back in penalty shootout, when it came to negotiating the Health Campus.

Green Party councillors threw their weight behind the Labour motion, saying they opposed the loss of more green areas in the town.

Steve Rackett , the leader of the Green group, said he feared that green spaces had not been properly protected in the original health campus master plan.

He said: “I wasn’t satisfied this issue was being addressed and now that is coming home to roost.”

At end of the debate the Liberal Democrat elected mayor, Dorothy Thornhill, said the decision to allow the Farm Terrace Allotments to be used in the development had not been taken lightly.

She attack the Labour group saying: “Your knowledge of the project is appalling. I genuinely think you just don’t get it.”

In the end Labour, the Greens and an Independent voted in support of the motion, but it was defeated by the larger Liberal Democrat majority and a Conservative.

Comments(41)

pietas says...
11:06am Fri 20 Jul 12

If you are reading this you may also be interested in the comments re previous article from Tuesday 19th June, ‘West Watford allotments considered as part of Health Campus development’.
http://www.watfordob
server.co.uk/news/97
69043.Allotment_hold
ers_concerned_over_f
uture_of_plots/?ref=
rss
For some strange reason ‘comments are now closed on this article'.

kingofpop says...
11:28am Fri 20 Jul 12

how on earth are the roads, public transport and schools cope with an extra 600 homes?!?watford is like one big traffic jam most of the time as it is!!

Studholme Berkeley says...
11:44am Fri 20 Jul 12

So much for the pavement politics of the Leb Dims!

Can't they find a few more back gardens to buold on? Hw about moving it all to Mount Vernon, which used to be a damned good hospital?

Andrew1963 says...
12:33pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Still not sure why the redevelopment of the Cardiff Road Industrial estate is still called the 'Health Campus' when its a commercial development with offices and 600 houses. At a value averaging £250,000 per unit that will be £150 million of houses - probably £30 million profit for the builder. So you can see why the allotments are under threat. The Council owns all the land here, The power station site, Oxhey Park, Cardiff Road Industrial estate; Willow lane and Farm terrace allotments - So ultimately the Mayor has the decision on all this.

scarecrow says...
2:43pm Fri 20 Jul 12

"Liberal Democrat George Derbyshire said: “This motion is nothing more than a cynical attempt to use a localised issue to political advantage with complete disregard for the people of Watford.” .......... Well George Derbyshire you are quite wrong it's YOU and the rest of the LIB DEMS that have complete disregard for the people of Watford, especially West Watford!

pietas says...
4:11pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Can any one remember if there was a comment before mine at 11.06. I thought mine was the second post. What has happened to it?

scarecrow says...
5:03pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Yes Pietas, you are right, there was a comment before yours! Funny how it's disappeared !!!

phil mitchel says...
5:54pm Fri 20 Jul 12

There was a post of mine removed, you'll find this type of politicaly biased censur occurs when you hit the nail on the head.

Nascot says...
8:44pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Is Reg on holiday?

drunkenduck says...
9:29pm Fri 20 Jul 12

I thought allotments are protected by law

http://www.publicati
ons.parliament.uk/pa
/cm199798/cmselect/c
menvtra/560/56010.ht
m

If the allotment is on land owned by the local authority then it will either be classed a statutory or temporary site. Statutory sites are protected by law.

blah-blah says...
9:40pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Stop the closure of Farm Terrace Allotments. Sign the online petition at: http://38degrees.use
rvoice.com/forums/78
585-campaign-suggest
ions/suggestions/298
2132-stop-the-propos
ed-closure-of-farm-t
errace-allotmen

blah-blah says...
9:53pm Fri 20 Jul 12

It's well worth reading today's Watford Observer - fair reporting on the issues and good letters! No, I didn't get a backhander for saying this!

Reg Edit says...
10:35pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Nascot,

it appears a number of early posts have been removed. Mine was one of them.

In essence I praised the Labour chap for raising the question, no matter what his motive may have been. He did a good thing.

At present the Liberals can do as they please, but at least questions are being asked of them.

Too large a group on the council can lead to bad governance. Watford Council is an example of that.

Only the Liberal party would build on these allotments (or are the Tories, sorry, the Tory, in on this as well?), and you voted them in to power in Watford in such numbers that they can and will do just that.

No apologies or second thoughts, if you don't agree with them you "just don't get it". Totalitarian?

Nice of them to consider other people may hold other views and respect their positions.

Not such a nice party now, are they? Ask an allotment holder.

phil mitchel says...
9:56am Sat 21 Jul 12

If they do away with the allotments where are they going to get the vegetables that they can nurture into lib dem councillors ?

pietas says...
10:58am Sat 21 Jul 12

Watford Observer please can you:
a) Repost the comments that have been deleted. (I do not recall seeing any form of abuse when reading them.)
b) Give explanation as to why they were deleted.
If comments are going to be arbitrarily lost, people will give up reading and contributing to the website. Something your advertisers would not be very happy with.

drunkenduck says...
11:24am Sat 21 Jul 12

pietas wrote:
Watford Observer please can you:
a) Repost the comments that have been deleted. (I do not recall seeing any form of abuse when reading them.)
b) Give explanation as to why they were deleted.
If comments are going to be arbitrarily lost, people will give up reading and contributing to the website. Something your advertisers would not be very happy with.
Pietas, WO are worried that some comments could land them with legal problems and/or have abuse attached. Then again, doesn't everybody has a right to express their views, concerns about an issue, such as like this. Then how else would they be able to, if the council doesn't listen or care about the local residents.

Recall this: "Dorothy Thornhill, Mayor of Watford, receives the MBE “for services to local government in Watford". What a load of tosh.

That does NOT mean she has the right treated the local residents or others like dirt. If she doesn't be careful, she could lose her MBE!

scarecrow says...
11:43am Sat 21 Jul 12

Well said drunkenduck.....tota
lly agree!
Could never understand how she got the MBE anyway.... for doing her job and getting a very good salary for it too?

phil mitchel says...
12:48pm Sat 21 Jul 12

Don't forget whats going on when it's time to vote. Don't listen to their lies and distortions, don't take any notice of that rubbish they post through your door. Question every statement they make and demand they quantify it, pester them for evidence and the truth behind the propoganda they distribute and when the time comes vote this sorry shower out. Every year you get a chance to reduce their number...use it, before they take that away from us.

scarecrow says...
1:01pm Sat 21 Jul 12

drunkenduck I do believe that you are right!

Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908
www.legislation.gov.
uk

Reg Edit says...
1:17pm Sat 21 Jul 12

phil mitchel wrote:
Don't forget whats going on when it's time to vote. Don't listen to their lies and distortions, don't take any notice of that rubbish they post through your door. Question every statement they make and demand they quantify it, pester them for evidence and the truth behind the propoganda they distribute and when the time comes vote this sorry shower out. Every year you get a chance to reduce their number...use it, before they take that away from us.
Phil, you are right to be worried.

At the moment if we vote an MP in we can vote him out again within 5 years at the next election. Anyone can make a mistake and vote in a clown, and 5 years seems too long in my opinion to remove an elected politician who no longer has the support of his constituents.

The Libs want their elected senators in the house of lords to have 15 year terms. That is so anti-democratic, 15 years. In five years time there is a good chance the Libs will be finished as a political force in this country, yet they could still have a number of people sitting in the House of Lords with a further 10 years on their ticket. How could that possibly be democratic or reflecting the will of the people? It's just plain stupid.

Clegg has no interest in democracy, if he did he wouldn't be so insistent on selling this country out to the anti-democratic EU. He is just after personal power for himself and the remainder of his motley crew.

The Liberals are a disaster and this council is an example of what happens if you give them too much power - they abuse it and ride roughshod over the people of Watford.

But it's all our fault. You see, as Dotty puts it so well, "we just don't get it". There might be a reason for that Dotty, and that's because we are not as stupid as you would like to think we are, and we are not as dotty as you!

Next time, use your vote to clear out the Libs and re-introduce a little democracy to Watford.

E.Coli says...
11:00am Sun 22 Jul 12

I think the Mayor is doing a fantastic job putting the Watford council taxpayers first, and ignoring the land developers. Oooo must go as the nurse is coming back to the nurse’s station where I have been using the computer in the secure unit of St Cretins Psychiatric hospital

clarkie750 says...
2:35pm Sun 22 Jul 12

The usual suspects out in force again. The fact the lib dems have done a fine job in Watford really gets up their noses.

scarecrow says...
4:49pm Sun 22 Jul 12

There's nothing up my nose clarkie750......only the sweet smell of allotments and it's healthy life style! Shame the LibDems can only see loads of £'signs and nothing else!

clarkie750 says...
7:24pm Sun 22 Jul 12

Shame you would put that above a new hospital, among other benefits.

pietas says...
7:46pm Sun 22 Jul 12

Why cannot the people of Watford have both? No, this is not a naive proposal. Where there’s a will there’s a way. e.g. why cannot the developers be offered other parcel/parcels of land in Watford to build the houses on that will make it worth their while? If there is no other land available, then where do the council propose to resite the evicted allotment holders?
To try and make the tenants of Farm Terrace and others of Watford that support them feel guilty and selfish is just a typical ploy to attempt to diminish a very valid stand to keep the allotments for this and future generations.
The council should work harder and not just cave in to profiteering manipulations of developers. Sounds like the two favoured companies have hatched this demand up between them.

scarecrow says...
8:35pm Sun 22 Jul 12

Thats just where you are so wrong Clarkie750, of course we want the new Health Campus AND we want to keep the allotments, the first developer could do it, so why can't these two? I'll tell you... A BIGGER PROFITwith an extra 600 new houses!!

Veritas says...
10:14pm Sun 22 Jul 12

Ah Clarkie you stooge of Daft dotty, you are so quick to call us "Gaeth" Lol
yet you bable on as if you have some inside knowledge of Daft Dottys working!!

YOU talk utter rubbish, a costing was done when the project was being put together, if they now find that they are short of "profit" tough!!!

A big disappointment and concerning that the Hospital are also trying to blackmail people with rubbish about using temporary facilities being connected to the Allotments? They should blame the idiots who closed down Hemel A & E and other departments for the increase in numbers being admitted to Watford.
Also, I guess it is no coincidence that allotments around Watford are being run down and vacant, is it to make room for the Farm Terrace holders?
Also the allotment holders should ask how much they will have to pay for the new plots, as Daft Dotty has doubled the prices, will they have to pay the new increases? so they will get shafted both ways

blah-blah says...
12:47am Mon 23 Jul 12

LibDems, I'll spell this out in simple terms. By working an allotment plot you are keeping fit and by growing fresh produce to eat you are keeping yourself and your family well. By doing these things YOU ARE KEEPING OUT OF HOSPITAL AND SAVING THE NHS ££££s. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to make any sense at all to the current administration. It seems to prefer overcrowding (more housing), traffic jams (more cars on the road), pollution and stress (causing more health problems) and at the same time profit for developers and themselves. By ignoring the arguments for keeping the Farm Terrace Allotment site the administration are bound to lose ground with their own supporters. It's the LibDems who have lost the plot and will end up on the heap!

Veritas says...
3:32am Mon 23 Jul 12

Reality Check!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Daft Dotty and her Fib Cronies are in for themselves!!!
Councillors claiming expenses whilst not in the country, one happy Chappie even getting away with doing a two year doctorate, oh and leaving the country. Do you really think they are interested in Watford overcrowding or lack of allotments or school places? Or a Hospital come to think of it? LOL

clarkie750 says...
7:25am Mon 23 Jul 12

The usual suspects at it again. The Lib Dems have done a fine job in Watford and bringing a new hospital to the town, together with the regeneration of the derelict area around it is another example of that. If you don't think the allotments are needed to make it happen, then ask the hospital trust. They will tell you exactly what the council is saying about the allotments.

Reg Edit says...
2:07pm Mon 23 Jul 12

pietas wrote:
Why cannot the people of Watford have both? No, this is not a naive proposal. Where there’s a will there’s a way. e.g. why cannot the developers be offered other parcel/parcels of land in Watford to build the houses on that will make it worth their while? If there is no other land available, then where do the council propose to resite the evicted allotment holders?
To try and make the tenants of Farm Terrace and others of Watford that support them feel guilty and selfish is just a typical ploy to attempt to diminish a very valid stand to keep the allotments for this and future generations.
The council should work harder and not just cave in to profiteering manipulations of developers. Sounds like the two favoured companies have hatched this demand up between them.
Well said, and it needed saying.

Clarkie is right about the usual suspects though - he's popped up again to defend a very flaky Liberal council on a very flaky Liberal scheme that is against the interests of the local people.

There is no reason on earth why we can't have both the hospital and the allotments. It's just greed and horse-dealing by the Liberals.

What's in it for them?

Veritas says...
2:19pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Fell of the chair reading about Daft Dotty doing a Lady Gaga!!! Guess Drag suits her so no one recognises her, or does she want to be remembered as a Gaga?

Shame no comments allowed. lol

A bit like the previous article about the former Conservative councillor, speaking about about local issues and being told what to say?

Why no comments allowed?

Then you wonder why Politics is such a mess in Watford, when elected officials can't even deal with local issues from an opposite view?

clarkie750 says...
7:27pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Reg, the thing about life is that isn't always how you would like it to be, but how it is. That is why your statement about having the development and the allotments is wrong. Sorry but facts are facts
I won't comment on Gareth's usual ravings.

Veritas says...
8:27pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Clarkie you still try the same boring old tactics, deal with issues.

Oh, sorry your a Fib Demp councillor!!

You would'nt know a fact from fiction judging by your pathetic postings!! LOL

Harry Bee says...
11:30am Tue 24 Jul 12

Veritas says:
Also, I guess it is no coincidence that allotments around Watford are being run down and vacant, is it to make room for the Farm Terrace holders?

I ask:
Or is it to make it easier to offer the land to developers?

blah-blah says...
2:44pm Tue 24 Jul 12

Let's make this administration's attack on plot holders of Farm Terrace Allotment known to the whole country. There are already 488 votes on the 38 Degrees site. Vote (and ask your friends to vote) at: http://38degrees.use
rvoice.com/forums/78
585-campaign-suggest
ions/suggestions/298
2132-stop-the-propos
ed-closure-of-farm-t
errace-allotmen

Reg Edit says...
9:50am Wed 25 Jul 12

clarkie750 wrote:
Reg, the thing about life is that isn't always how you would like it to be, but how it is. That is why your statement about having the development and the allotments is wrong. Sorry but facts are facts
I won't comment on Gareth's usual ravings.
Yes Clarkie, facts are facts.

The question is, how would YOU know?

You just make stuff up when it suits you with no regard to facts.

Sorry, but it's difficult to take you and the rest of the Liberals-not-democra
ts seriously.

blah-blah says...
11:13am Thu 26 Jul 12

Very little battle of words going on here. Where are the LibDems and their supporters? Perhaps many of them actually support the plot holders of Farm Terrace Allotments in their fight against the developers but don't want to admit it! After all giving support to these developers means putting your thumbs up for more housing in an already overcrowded West Watford, more traffic on the roads and more pollution, traffic jams and stress.

lillylurcher says...
1:36pm Thu 26 Jul 12

We don't need more homes we need another primary school for all the children that have moved into all the new homes and flats that WBC have already allowed builders to build. The reason the hospital is so busy is because the population in the area has increased all because of WBC. WBC must stop before they make things worse than they already are! Allotment before housing anytime!

TRT says...
2:00pm Thu 26 Jul 12

So, are we going to start calling this scheme the Watford Wealth Campus?

WWOGAS says...
2:45pm Fri 27 Jul 12

We are pleased to see the Watford Health Campus web site has been taken down! It contained out of date, incorrect information. Protect Farm Terrace Allotments by signing the e-petition on www.38degrees.uservo
ice.com (ps 38 degrees is the angle at which a landslide starts)

click2find

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