Charter Place pay-off to rejected developer revealed (From Watford Observer)
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£540,000 was paid to Henry Boot Ltd
5:00pm Thursday 9th August 2012 in News
By Mike Wright, Chief Reporter
The developer kicked off a project to regenerate Watford's Charter Place shopping centre was paid more than £500,000 in compensation, the Watford Observer has learned.
Henry Boot Ltd received around £540,000, a large portion of which was shouldered by the taxpayer, after Watford Borough Council switched the project to the owners of the Harlequin.
The leaked figure can be revealed after Watford Borough Council kept it secret from the taxpayer, citing confidentiality reasons.
This week the council was attacked by opposition politicians for keeping Watford taxpayers in the dark over how their money was being spent.
Steve Rackett , the leader of the Green Party, said: "It is not good when the council cannot be open with the public about taxpayers’ money.
"It looks like the council is becoming increasingly secretive about how it spending large amounts of taxpayers’s money."
However, Watford’s Liberal Democrat mayor, Dorothy Thornhill, defended the council’s decision not to reveal the figure paid to Henry Boot, saying there had been a confidentiality agreement.
She said if the council had revealed the amount itself it could be sued by Henry Boot, which would cost the taxpayer more money.
Mayor Thornhill said: "All I will say to the Greens is if they held the mayoralty they would understand there are some things that you just can’t do.
"We are the open party, we have done more to open up town hall than Labour did in 30 years. My party is instinctively open.
"But when my solicitor tells me we can’t do this I take the advice. The last thing I want is the council in court."
The Charter Place figure has been leaked after bosses at the council blocked attempts by the Watford Observer to obtain it from the borough’s accounts.
This week council bosses denied a request for access to the agreement and invoices between Watford and Henry Boot, claiming they are commercially confidential.
The Watford Observer also tried to exercise a citizens’ rights, under the Audit Commission Act 1998, to inspect other contracts the council has with companies to see how public money is being spent.
However, council bosses redacted crucial parts of the contracts, again claiming commercial confidentiality, leaving the Watford taxpayer in the dark of how much deals negotiated on their behalf are costing.
The revelation of the Charter Place payoff figure has prompted calls for swift progress to be made over the project, which has been beset by problems and delays.
The council decided to end its agreement with Henry Boot in June and handed it to Capital Shopping Centres, owners of the Harlequin, after it expressed interest in the project. The scheme aims to totally redevelop the tatty shopping precinct with a new building and plans for a cinema.
Steve Johnson, a Conservative borough councillor, said: "They have got to get building the thing - at the end of the day that is the important thing.
"We need to see it realised. All we are doing at the moment is outlaying money with nothing happening there."
Mayor Thornhill said the deal negotiated with Capital was a much better deal for the taxpayer than the Henry Boot one and would recoup the money lost in the payoff within the first year.
Comments(26)
clarkie750
says...
6:41pm Thu 9 Aug 12
drunkenduck
says...
7:23pm Thu 9 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:Complete shambles once again. Well done WO and SHAME ON YOU, Lib Dems & the mayor, Dorothy Thornhill for hiding this payment from Watford taxpayers.
Is this the deal that will see this money recouped inside a year and will deliver a very much better development than Henry Boot were proposing?
It's time that ungrateful mayor steps down before she does any more damage to Watford.
TRT
says...
7:38pm Thu 9 Aug 12
Andrew1963
says...
10:31pm Thu 9 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:No one knows as the details of the deal have not been revealed. We do not know what CSC plan to do. All we do know is that they were so worried about the mismanagement of Watford town centre that they had to jump in, to protect their investment at the Harlequin, by taking Charter Place by the scruff of the neck to ensure it contributed to improving Harlequin proitability.
Is this the deal that will see this money recouped inside a year and will deliver a very much better development than Henry Boot were proposing?
Veritas
says...
4:12am Fri 10 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:Blunty you arrogant twit, aka Molly
Is this the deal that will see this money recouped inside a year and will deliver a very much better development than Henry Boot were proposing?
YOU and Dotty pay off a failed Developer with £500,000, try and keep it secret, and you have the cheek to tell us it will be recouped!
If they are proposing a much better deal why did did you not go with them in the first place?
We are told there are a few more freedom requests just waiting to be exposed, will you have a new Moniker by then. please include Incompetent in it, mind you does not matter what stupid moniker you use, we all know who you are, Just by the crap you waffle on about, Ha Ha
Better still flog off a few more allotments on the Holywell near the new train line, will hekp pay for more your screw ups.
clarkie750
says...
8:26am Fri 10 Aug 12
And Gareth your lack of understanding of commercial matters matches only your general incompetence in everything else.
Andrew1963
says...
1:02pm Fri 10 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:Where did you find this information. I ask Town Hall and they said it was not available? Mind you i am happy CSC are going to take charge of the scheme.
To answer my previous question - yes this is the money that will be recouped within a year and yes it will deliver a much better development than the one from Henry Boot. And Gareth your lack of understanding of commercial matters matches only your general incompetence in everything else.
bobbymac
says...
1:45pm Fri 10 Aug 12
placent and dreadfully inept.
Mike Watford
says...
2:35pm Fri 10 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:Yes! ...and more rental income than the pay-off in a year, so by the second year it more than pays for itself.
Is this the deal that will see this money recouped inside a year and will deliver a very much better development than Henry Boot were proposing?
...so seems the 'right' thing to do for us. Good that they got such a better new deal.
Nosmo-King
says...
5:26pm Fri 10 Aug 12
Mike Watford wrote:How do you know the details when it's not been released? Why cant the council tell us what rental they had 5 years ago, 3 years ago, and now they've done the deal, with the costs then let us know what they'll be getting in the future - then we can make a judgement on the state of play and is is such a good deal.
clarkie750 wrote:Yes! ...and more rental income than the pay-off in a year, so by the second year it more than pays for itself.
Is this the deal that will see this money recouped inside a year and will deliver a very much better development than Henry Boot were proposing?
...so seems the 'right' thing to do for us. Good that they got such a better new deal.
Dotty has been going at this for 10 years and not delievered, in growing property boom times and in recent harder times...
The waste of public money is astonishing, the sounds of despiration to push a deal through and get it off the Councils books at all costs is evident. What about the local businesses and the market....
If you're and Irish Club member, with an allotment at Occupation Road who runs a market stall..... this hasn't been a good summer!
clarkie750
says...
6:12pm Fri 10 Aug 12
But ongoing commercial negotiations aren't in the public domain. No organisation would do that. It would be very foolish.
Veritas
says...
4:50am Sat 11 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:"Sharpe" get out and watch the olympics
To answer my previous question - yes this is the money that will be recouped within a year and yes it will deliver a much better development than the one from Henry Boot. And Gareth your lack of understanding of commercial matters matches only your general incompetence in everything else.
you got nothing better to do during prime time tv, then waffle?????
your lack of commercial under understanding makes you the laughing stock at the council?
Only problem is the pair of you are causing real damage to Watford.
We are in a recession, who is going to want to pay increased rents?
Go down market st, Queens rd, ask the shop keepers, they are being hammered by high council rates, and parking problems.
You keep quoting figures, that even the paper can't verify, infact it looks like obstacles placed in their way, to questions asked.
We think you had better change you name to Walter Mitty.
Please don't go on about 10 years ago
it makes you look even more pathetic
Steve, Abbots Langley
says...
9:27am Sat 11 Aug 12
The LIb Dems are so open and transparent that they campaigned against a Tory VAT increase and then voted for it. They said they would abolish student tutiton fees, but then trebbled them instead and promised 3,000 extra police but for the disgraceful hat-trick actually cut the number of Bobbies on the beat!
You can't trust Nick Clegg's Lib Dems locally or nationally.
clarkie750
says...
1:39pm Sat 11 Aug 12
As for Gareth, the demented laughter he puts in some of his posts says it all.
Veritas
says...
3:30pm Sat 11 Aug 12
There is something morally wrong about that! It should be the other way around, sounds like you and Daft Dotty are not running things properly or this shady developer has taken YOU for a ride!!!
YOU like to try and name people Blunty, but you denied you were Molly, and now clarkie? What does that say about you
clarkie750
says...
5:18pm Sat 11 Aug 12
Dear oh dear, show some commonsense.
Arthur
says...
11:35am Sun 12 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:We're obviously in trouble when people running our council are so out-of-touch that that failed the notice the world-wide recession that hit in 2009 caused by banksters Until then the country's books balanced.
The almost local Labour hack Steve has forgotten that all of the above were forced on the governent by the shocking state in which Labour left the economy. And since then Labour have said they would have done/will do the same things as the government has done.
As for Gareth, the demented laughter he puts in some of his posts says it all.
We should also note that the steps taken by Gordon Brown to correct things were emulated round the world. Furthermore, during his last year in office, after this financial tsunami hit, Brown was achieving growth that the present Government, only kept in office by Lib Dem's propping them up, can only dream about.
Boy are we in trouble with PR/spin muppets like "Clarkie" run things
If there is such a fantastic deal to be had from the replacement developers, why on earth weren't they selected in the first place? However the Fib Dems wrap it up they've wasted £half a mil of our money. The so-called additional rental income that will off-set this waste should be going straight into the town hall coffers not to Boot's shareholders.
clarkie750
says...
11:44am Sun 12 Aug 12
As for Charter Place you obviously haven't been following this at all. The new developer approached the council with a stonkingly good offer. This was after they had first declined but then, after a change of management, realised they had made a mistake. Even Labour wouldn't have been stupid enough to have turned them down.
Arthur
says...
4:06pm Sun 12 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:Well Clarkie or should that be Sharpie?
Well Arthur you obviously didn't notice that when the economy was being run into the ground Labour were the government. Not only that they refused to increase bank regulation because it would hurt the economy. Oh dear how wrong can you be. All that at a time when the hapless Gordon Brown was saying he had put an end to boom and bust.
As for Charter Place you obviously haven't been following this at all. The new developer approached the council with a stonkingly good offer. This was after they had first declined but then, after a change of management, realised they had made a mistake. Even Labour wouldn't have been stupid enough to have turned them down.
According to official Government figures which clearly you never look at, the bank bailout cost £850 billion. Brown rolled his sleeves up and got on with it. The result was according to published figures GDP growth of 2.3%. In the ensuing 24 months since your lot seized control of the economy, GDP has decreased to wind up 0.6% less than it was two years ago under Brown
I suppose that's what we should expect when we have a couple of toffs in charge who reportedly don't even know the price of a pint of milk
As regards Charter Place; however you wrap it up you've cost Watford Council Tax payers £540,000 by your very obviously incompetent negotiation technique .
You should be ashamed of yourselves, but then that's asking a bit much of people who know "everything" isn't it?
clarkie750
says...
7:07pm Sun 12 Aug 12
And you simply o not understand the Charter Place situation. It's difficult trying to explain things to somebody so dense, but I'll have another go. The new developer wasn't interested in the project until they realised they had made a mistake. They then approached the council with a stonkingly good offer, which was impossible to turn down. The fact compensation is due to the previous developer is a by-product of that, but, however you cut it, Watford has got a very good deal.
garston tony
says...
9:28am Mon 13 Aug 12
Someone asked why not go with CSC in the first place, the answer seems quite simple CSC werent interested in the first place!
And I'm no fan of the mayor by the way but the attacks on her and the lib dem are not factual in this instance. That is if it is true that the money will be recouped.
Its time all contracts funded by public money were made public, the need for us to know how our money is being spent is greater than the need of a firm to hide its pubic contracts from competitors. These things invariably over run anyway. Not that knowing the details would change much maybe!
Mike Watford
says...
9:28am Mon 13 Aug 12
It's just that a better, outstanding deal has come along.
It's been reported in the press that the extraction deal is paid for in less than 12 months of the extra annual income the new deal presents.
All in all, great confidence in Watford by Capital Shopping Centres.
Andrew1963
says...
3:55pm Mon 13 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:So how do you know that the new offer from CSC will more than payback the £500,000+ in the first year?
There's nothing secret about income and expenditure from previous years. Its all in the accounts. Of course ten years ago you couldn't have worked much out from the acounts as they were so bad the auditors rejected them two years running. Sorting out the council's finances is one of the many good thigs the mayor has done. But ongoing commercial negotiations aren't in the public domain. No organisation would do that. It would be very foolish.
corbindallas
says...
7:35pm Wed 15 Aug 12
clarkie750 wrote:On going being the key here, commercial deals are secret during the bidding process but not after, transparency to bidders under conpetative law to understand why they lost the contract etc need to be exposed, what the Mayor states is rubbish and can only assume the legal team need a kick up the backside to understand what is available for disclosure, this is public funding and as such should be available for public scrutiny. Why state the company wanted it to be secret when they have to declare it in their own companies house tax returns is ridiculous and sounds like another blame someone else excuse from the Lib Dems.Also if you don't like the Mayor of 10 years you know what to do!
There's nothing secret about income and expenditure from previous years. Its all in the accounts. Of course ten years ago you couldn't have worked much out from the acounts as they were so bad the auditors rejected them two years running. Sorting out the council's finances is one of the many good thigs the mayor has done.
But ongoing commercial negotiations aren't in the public domain. No organisation would do that. It would be very foolish.
Mike Watford
says...
12:27pm Fri 24 Aug 12
Andrew1963 wrote:...er, it was reported in the paper a month ago!
clarkie750 wrote: There's nothing secret about income and expenditure from previous years. Its all in the accounts. Of course ten years ago you couldn't have worked much out from the acounts as they were so bad the auditors rejected them two years running. Sorting out the council's finances is one of the many good thigs the mayor has done. But ongoing commercial negotiations aren't in the public domain. No organisation would do that. It would be very foolish.So how do you know that the new offer from CSC will more than payback the £500,000+ in the first year?
It's all quite simple.
Councils up and down the country hope to get rental income from property. They also go out to legal, open/Europe-wide tender processes, but then if they enter a deal with a company (to get income for us), the company has a legal deal written in to contracts, that if things change they don't want things to affect their share-price adversely.
A new offer from CSC has come in (which shows confidence in Watford). It means the council/tax-payers get a better deal in less than a year, and continually over the next 900 years!
The council have been fortunate to get this extremely good new deal, and have acted in all our best interest.
It also means it's more likely that the redevelopment of Charter Place will actually happen - even in a recession. CSC will want to make it happen as owners of the Harlequinn
@SeamusTweeting says...
6:11pm Thu 9 Aug 12
All you do is lay off proper staff and then higher people to write your speeches, now this!
You talk of openness and transparency but can't deliver it. Our taxes are being spent on a company that is under performing and isnt providing jobs or growth in watford.
All your good for is a photo shoot thats it !!!!