Kings Langley drug dealer jailed after transporting 200 kilos of cannabis (From Watford Observer)

Who are these piece of **** lawyers that continue to defend these parasites, murderers, tax evaders etc?

(I know, Anthony Wyatt, James Martin and Chris Georgiou)

It's a good job Paul has had a wake up call, you know, like the rest of us have every day from our alarm clocks.

We need to stop this stupid and unwinnable war against cannabis. It is causing far more harm to our communities than it prevents. If we had a properly regulated system of production and supply we'd have no more illegal cannabis farms, instead we'd have thousands of new jobs. We'd have no more dealers on the streets. Cannabis would be available to adults only through licensed outlets and we'd have some control over the THC and CBD content.

Doctors would be able to prescribe one of the most effective medicines that has no serious side effects at all. At the moment the government has given GW Pharmaceuticals an illegal monopoly on cannabis so they make millions out of a medicine that you can grow in your greenhouse for virtually nothing.

If we introduced a legally regulated system we would solve nearly all the problems around cannabis. Science proves how much safer it is than tobacco, alcohol, prescription medicines and all other recreational drugs. If anyone does have a problem with it they could get help without having to confess to a crime.

CLEAR published independent, expert research last year which shows that a tax and regulate policy on cannabis would produce a net gain to the UK economy of up to £9.3 billion per annum.

It is a scandal that our government, our judges, our courts, our police and our newspapers keep misleading us about cannabis. Find out the truth for yourself and wake up to the lies you have been told.

Bringing cannabis into a regulated system will see drug use drop and age of first use rise. Associated crimes will decline along with the amount of dealers selling it. It would save the tax payer billions while enriching the economy from taxes, while the black market is delivered a serious blow. Prevention and therapy is cheaper and more effective than prohibition.

I dislike drug dealers and children using drugs or becoming enticed by gangsterism, so i say NO to prohibition and NOW to legal regulation.

The following risks are associated with cannabis use:

Even hardcore smokers can become anxious, panicky, suspicious or paranoid.
Cannabis affects your co-ordination, which is one of the reasons why drug driving, like drink driving, is illegal.
Some people think cannabis is harmless because it’s a plant, but it isn’t harmless. Cannabis, like tobacco, has lots of chemical 'nasties', which, with long-term or heavy use, can cause lung disease and possibly cancer. The risk is greater because cannabis is often mixed with tobacco and smoked without a filter. It can also make asthma worse, and cause wheezing in people without asthma.
Cannabis itself can affect many different systems in the body, including the heart. It increases the heart rate and can affect blood pressure.
If you have a history of mental health problems, taking cannabis is not a good idea. It can cause paranoia in the short term, but in those with a pre-existing psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia, it can contribute to relapse.
If you use cannabis and have a family background of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, you may be at increased risk of developing a psychotic illness.
It is reported that frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and reduce sperm motility. It can suppress ovulation in women and so may affect fertility.
If you’re pregnant, smoking cannabis frequently may increase the risk of the baby being born smaller than expected.
Regular, heavy use of cannabis makes it difficult to learn and concentrate. Some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
Some users buy strong herbal cannabis (also known as skunk) to get ‘a bigger high’. Unpleasant reactions can be more powerful when you use strong cannabis, and it is possible that using strong cannabis repeatedly could increase the risk of harmful effects such as dependence or developing mental health problems.

G_Whiz wrote:
The following risks are associated with cannabis use:

Even hardcore smokers can become anxious, panicky, suspicious or paranoid.
Cannabis affects your co-ordination, which is one of the reasons why drug driving, like drink driving, is illegal.
Some people think cannabis is harmless because it’s a plant, but it isn’t harmless. Cannabis, like tobacco, has lots of chemical 'nasties', which, with long-term or heavy use, can cause lung disease and possibly cancer. The risk is greater because cannabis is often mixed with tobacco and smoked without a filter. It can also make asthma worse, and cause wheezing in people without asthma.
Cannabis itself can affect many different systems in the body, including the heart. It increases the heart rate and can affect blood pressure.
If you have a history of mental health problems, taking cannabis is not a good idea. It can cause paranoia in the short term, but in those with a pre-existing psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia, it can contribute to relapse.
If you use cannabis and have a family background of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, you may be at increased risk of developing a psychotic illness.
It is reported that frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and reduce sperm motility. It can suppress ovulation in women and so may affect fertility.
If you’re pregnant, smoking cannabis frequently may increase the risk of the baby being born smaller than expected.
Regular, heavy use of cannabis makes it difficult to learn and concentrate. Some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
Some users buy strong herbal cannabis (also known as skunk) to get ‘a bigger high’. Unpleasant reactions can be more powerful when you use strong cannabis, and it is possible that using strong cannabis repeatedly could increase the risk of harmful effects such as dependence or developing mental health problems.

oh, still safer than alcohol then..

As Professor Terrie Moffitt of the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College London said just last month:

"Cannabis is safe for over 18s"

''Even hardcore smokers can become anxious, panicky, suspicious or paranoid''

- CBD is an anti psychotic cannabinoid in cannabis, yet under prohibition criminals dont sell CBD rich strains. Legal medicinal cannabis is known to reduce symptoms of anxiety, especially indica dominate strains, and paranoia comes with a lack in CBD and its legality.

''Some people think cannabis is harmless because it’s a plant, but it isn’t harmless. Cannabis, like tobacco, has lots of chemical 'nasties', which, with long-term or heavy use, can cause lung disease and possibly cancer''

Cannabis isnt harmless, but its safer than alcohol and tobacco, Chemical nasties? You mean THC and CBD? Or all cannabinoids? Those cannabinoids that are chemically identical to the ones we naturally have inside us?
As far as i know, tobacco doesnt contain cannabinoids which are protective, scientifically proven to be protective. Professor Terrie Moffitt, from the Institute of Psychiatry at King’s College London, said “I’m fairly confident that cannabis is safe for over-18 brains, but risky for under-18 brains.”

''If you have a history of mental health problems, taking cannabis is not a good idea.''

- I agree, but the same goes for alcohol, coffee and pharmaceutical drugs. Cannabis being prescribed to people with mental illness such as panic disorders, psychosis and schizophrenia, isit because CBD is an anti psychotic? Im not talking about synthesized versions of cannabis, the natural flower bud is sold as medicine for people with psychological problems in countries that legally regulate such as Israel, America, Canada, Holland, and so on.

''It is reported that frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and reduce sperm motility....''

-Certain cannabis strains are actually used as an aphrodisiac, and a documentary called 'super high me' which done studies on long term cannabis use, reported a higher sperm count after 30 days of heavy cannabis use, with a variety of strains..(how many kids did bob marley have?)

''Regular, heavy use of cannabis makes it difficult to learn and concentrate. Some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.''

- Thats anecdotal evidence, cannabis can be used as an aid for concentration for people who suffer from Autism, ADHD, Epilepsy and so on. For recreational smokers, different strains offer different effects, so the knowledgeable user would choose a sativa or a hybrid as opposed to indica.

''Some users buy strong herbal cannabis (also known as skunk) to get ‘a bigger high’.''

- Because while cannabis is still sold by criminals, only the strongest strains will be available.Weaker or CBD rich strains do exist, but only in countries that legally regulate. There is a huge market just in CBD rich cannabis. In the UK, smokers dont usually have a choice. By the way, Skunk is not slang for strong cannabis. Skunk is cannabis and cannabis is skunk! The term skunk is slang for non pollinated cannabis plant, and describes the separation of males from females when growing. It also describes a very specific strain of cannabis bred by the Dutch known as 'Skunk#1', this is a very specific strain, since then, hundreds of strains have been bred, not all of these are skunk or have skunk 1 genetics. Skunk is just the name of the strain, like 'white widow', and it describes non pollinated female flowers, sensimilla (without seeds). Calling all strong variants of cannabis 'skunk', makes no sense. Its like calling all strong booze, 'Jack Daniels'. Under prohibition dealers sell the strongest stuff for the most money, the media have misused the term skunk to further the demonization of this relatively harmless plant, comparing the side effects to all drugs including legal ones.

The truth is, you can type all the negative effects about cannabis all day, (even though the positives out weigh the negatives) your simply strengthening the argument for legal regulation. The demand wont go away simply because its illegal, therefore you are left with a choice, who would you prefer controlling the cannabis market? Government approved professionals, from lab testing to quality control, to growing and selling by extremely informed caring people. Or criminal drug dealers? Who dont even know what CBD is, and spray the cannabis up with glass particles or heroine to get their young clientèle hooked onto something that will destroy their life, all in the name of profits. Its a no brainer for those with a brain.

Professor Terrie Moffitt of the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College London said just last month, also said you loose 20% brain power. Another words the above two posters are getting stupidly by the minute.

drunkenduck wrote:
Professor Terrie Moffitt of the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College London said just last month, also said you loose 20% brain power. Another words the above two posters are getting stupidly by the minute.

That is completely false.

A very minor reduction in IQ was noted by those who had started using cannabis when very young and who had used it very heavily. Professor Moffitt said very clearly "Cannabis is safe for over 18s"

The country wastes a fortune trying to stop illegal dealing and growing of cannabis. They will never stop it. If someone wants to use cannabis they will always find a way of getting their supply, and rather than the government legalising it, the money goes to the dealers who continue to make a fortune.

Whether cannabis is legal or illegal people are going to use it, so why not legalise it and put billions of pounds into the economy.

It should be up to the users to decide if they feel it is safe to use or not, in the same way that tobacco and alcohol is. Some will argue that it would cost the NHS money, but it already does. It also costs the police, the courts and borders controls money, and takes billions away from HMRC.

The Rover; insert the word 'Herion' for 'cannabis' in your post and you could use the exact same argument without even changing the wording.

Ok, once again let us look at some facts, by looking at the two nearest countries to relax cannabis laws.

The Netherlands:
Higher murder rate per capita than France, China, Australia, Italy, Germany, Norway, Japan, Austria, Spain and many more.
Prison population: Higher per capita than Germany and any Scandanavian country.

So that is the reduction of crime argument put to rest, doesn't it?

The Netherlands has the 11th highest HIV rate in Europe, Portugal is no.8. That is out of 36 countries, including Russia and Ukraine who top the list and is NOT calculated per capita; it is actual people.

This suggests either there is a lot more unprotected fun going on, or there are more intravenous drug users. Perhaps both, but it isn't good considering the population of both countries is quite small in comparison to those higher ranked.

Russia has a population of about 142 million, Portugal about 10 million.

These FACTS speak for themselves.

LSC wrote:
Ok, once again let us look at some facts, by looking at the two nearest countries to relax cannabis laws.

The Netherlands:
Higher murder rate per capita than France, China, Australia, Italy, Germany, Norway, Japan, Austria, Spain and many more.
Prison population: Higher per capita than Germany and any Scandanavian country.

So that is the reduction of crime argument put to rest, doesn't it?

The Netherlands has the 11th highest HIV rate in Europe, Portugal is no.8. That is out of 36 countries, including Russia and Ukraine who top the list and is NOT calculated per capita; it is actual people.

This suggests either there is a lot more unprotected fun going on, or there are more intravenous drug users. Perhaps both, but it isn't good considering the population of both countries is quite small in comparison to those higher ranked.

Russia has a population of about 142 million, Portugal about 10 million.

These FACTS speak for themselves.

The Netherlands have the lowest hard drug use in Europe. Because cannabis isnt sold by street dealers. The Netherlands have a much higher age of first use than in the UK, and less people use cannabis in the Netherlands even thought its openly available to adults. Why are you trying to prove prohibition works? LOL are you a dealer? And you know legal regulation will put you out of business?

Sorry I dislike drug dealers and children using drugs or becoming enticed by gangsterism, so i say NO to prohibition and NOW to legal regulation.

"The lesson has already been learned with alcohol prohibition. We tried to engineer an alcohol-free society and ended up with huge criminal enterprises, government corruption, children lured into organized crime and random violence that took the lives of countless innocent people."
- Kurt Schmoke, Mayor of Baltimore

You keep quoting that Mayor, but I'd stop if I were you. He was part of the legal team who represented Roland Burris, of whom the Senate Ethics Committee said:

"The Committee found that you should have known that you were providing incorrect, inconsistent, misleading, or incomplete information to the public, the Senate and those conducting legitimate inquiries into your appointment to the Senate."

Nice trustworthy chap.

You and your friends keep trying to insult me; No, I'm not a drug dealer or a supporter of peadophiles. Any neutral reading this will see straight through what you are trying to do there. You can't discredit my argument, so you attack me personally.

Very poor debating skills.

"The Netherlands have the lowest hard drug use in Europe."

Source? I use the EMCDDA for my facts who say that simply is not true.

LSC wrote:
You keep quoting that Mayor, but I'd stop if I were you. He was part of the legal team who represented Roland Burris, of whom the Senate Ethics Committee said:

"The Committee found that you should have known that you were providing incorrect, inconsistent, misleading, or incomplete information to the public, the Senate and those conducting legitimate inquiries into your appointment to the Senate."

Nice trustworthy chap.

You and your friends keep trying to insult me; No, I'm not a drug dealer or a supporter of peadophiles. Any neutral reading this will see straight through what you are trying to do there. You can't discredit my argument, so you attack me personally.

Very poor debating skills.

When have I attacked you personally? Its no debate, all the arguments have been won. That quote from the mayor is very relevant regardless of who he was. Like i said, the demand for cannabis and the cannabis itself wont go away simply because its illegal....so there is a choice, who would you prefer to see controlling the market...drug dealers? Criminals? Or informed professionals selling under strict regulation? What about Portugal, decriminalised, 10 years later a 50% drop in drug use. Thats a success. Prohibition is a fail. Why are you happy with the current policy causing more harm than good?

The only rational explanation for LSC's comments is that he is a drug dealer.

LSC wrote:
The Rover; insert the word 'Herion' for 'cannabis' in your post and you could use the exact same argument without even changing the wording.

LSC, I agree, but I thought we were talking about cannabis. Can anyone else think of another word we could all replace cannabis with?

Babs Stanley wrote:
The only rational explanation for LSC's comments is that he is a drug dealer.

The only true prohibitionists are drug dealers and politicians. The rest are simply misinformed, or misguided. The fact is, the current policy is causing more harm than the cannabis itself...so why does it still exist? Its not about harm reduction, by that logic alcohol and tobacco would be class A drugs. The current ridiculous drug policy is only kept alive by the power of alcohol and tobacco companies, even pharmaceutical companies such as GW. Prohibition only exists has it keeps certain people in the job, such as drug dealers..and drug testing companies and front line police and...the list can go on and on. Some people dont realise why cannabis is illegal, and wont accept it has nothing to do with the effects from smoking it. Why keep such a useful medicine illegal? It only keeps drug dealers rich, and alcohol and tobacco companies happy. Its about profit, not our safety and harm reduction. Almost every non biased expert agrees it should be legally regulated. I would rather listen to a scientist, professor or expert than a politician, a judge or a misinformed prohibitionist.

LSC wrote:
The Rover; insert the word 'Herion' for 'cannabis' in your post and you could use the exact same argument without even changing the wording.

Cannabis is not heroine though, heroine is one of the most dangerous destructive addictive drugs on Earth. Cannabis is the safest non addictive on earth, although i recognize it has a potential for harm, as do burgers. But we dont prohibit junk food and jail unhealthy eaters to 'save them from themselves' so why cannabis? Or isit easier to call cannabis 'drugs' and group it together with all hard drugs? Alcohol is a drug, far more destructive than cannabis, yet when prohibited, the dangers where obvious and less than 10 years later the re legalized alcohol, and society became safer. Did it stop 100% of moonshiners? Nope, but compared to how it was there where hardly any left in comparison. Did it stop under age drinking, Nope...but it made alcohol MUCH harder for kids to obtain. Simply because it became regulated, and not left in the hands of criminals. Its the same with cannabis in 2012.

LSC wrote:
"The Netherlands have the lowest hard drug use in Europe."

Source? I use the EMCDDA for my facts who say that simply is not true.

Perhaps you have difficulty understanding the EMCDDA tables LSC?

This is the one you need. It shows that on a rate per 1000 of population the Netherlands has the lowest number of problematic drug users in Europe:

http://www.emcdda.eu
ropa.eu/stats12#disp
lay:/stats12/pdutab1
02a

Babs Stanley wrote:

drunkenduck wrote:
Professor Terrie Moffitt of the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College London said just last month, also said you loose 20% brain power. Another words the above two posters are getting stupidly by the minute.

That is completely false.

A very minor reduction in IQ was noted by those who had started using cannabis when very young and who had used it very heavily. Professor Moffitt said very clearly "Cannabis is safe for over 18s"

Why don't you listen to it AGAIN, word by word... Even the intro says your IQ drops.

http://soundcloud.co
m/markpalmer-1/canna
bis-use-professor-te
rrie

drunkenduck wrote:

Babs Stanley wrote:

drunkenduck wrote:
Professor Terrie Moffitt of the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College London said just last month, also said you loose 20% brain power. Another words the above two posters are getting stupidly by the minute.

That is completely false.

A very minor reduction in IQ was noted by those who had started using cannabis when very young and who had used it very heavily. Professor Moffitt said very clearly "Cannabis is safe for over 18s"

Why don't you listen to it AGAIN, word by word... Even the intro says your IQ drops.

http://soundcloud.co

m/markpalmer-1/canna

bis-use-professor-te

rrie

Yes, for young developing brains. In countries than legally regulate cannabis, age of first use is much higher, preventing kids and only accessible for over 21's making no difference to an adults IQ, which by the way does NOT describe the full intelligence of a human.
Also environmental factors have an effect on young peoples IQ. If the test was done for under age alcohol use, i guarantee you the effects on IQ would be much worse.

drunkenduck wrote:

Babs Stanley wrote:

drunkenduck wrote:
Professor Terrie Moffitt of the Institute of Psychiatry, Kings College London said just last month, also said you loose 20% brain power. Another words the above two posters are getting stupidly by the minute.

That is completely false.

A very minor reduction in IQ was noted by those who had started using cannabis when very young and who had used it very heavily. Professor Moffitt said very clearly "Cannabis is safe for over 18s"

Why don't you listen to it AGAIN, word by word... Even the intro says your IQ drops.

http://soundcloud.co

m/markpalmer-1/canna

bis-use-professor-te

rrie

I'm really not sure now whether it's your eyes or your brain.

Of course, any psychoactive substance can be harmful to the developing brain. So can any psychological trauma during childhood. Perhaps you had a difficult time when younger?

For adults, cannabis is safe. What else can you say that about?

Babs Stanley wrote:
The only rational explanation for LSC's comments is that he is a drug dealer.

Once again you let yourself down. It seems so pointless even trying to have a debate with you people.

For the record I tried cannabis a few times when I was younger. I personally found it over-rated for the money it cost and simply turned my brain to mush. The next morning I was a bit poorer and couldn't remember much of the night before. So a bit pointless really. I should have just had an early night and saved my money.

I now have a couple of degrees and run a medium sized charity (Which has nothing to do with drugs).

All you people actually seem to be arguing for is the chance to continue your addictions without being arrested.

Which is a little sad, really.

SuperSilverSourDiese
l wrote:

LSC wrote:
The Rover; insert the word 'Herion' for 'cannabis' in your post and you could use the exact same argument without even changing the wording.

Cannabis is not heroine though, heroine is one of the most dangerous destructive addictive drugs on Earth. Cannabis is the safest non addictive on earth, although i recognize it has a potential for harm, as do burgers. But we dont prohibit junk food and jail unhealthy eaters to 'save them from themselves' so why cannabis? Or isit easier to call cannabis 'drugs' and group it together with all hard drugs? Alcohol is a drug, far more destructive than cannabis, yet when prohibited, the dangers where obvious and less than 10 years later the re legalized alcohol, and society became safer. Did it stop 100% of moonshiners? Nope, but compared to how it was there where hardly any left in comparison. Did it stop under age drinking, Nope...but it made alcohol MUCH harder for kids to obtain. Simply because it became regulated, and not left in the hands of criminals. Its the same with cannabis in 2012.

Oh, will you shut up about alcohol comparisons, it is a complete red herring and you well know it.
I have already agreed alcohol is dangerous. So?
If Alcohol is a .357 Magnum and cannabis is only a .22, you still wouldn't want to be shot in the head by either.

The point is, you aren't here arguing about banning alcohol, the larger bullet. You are here arguing to legalise the smaller bullet.

Because you need that fix, don't you?

Babs Stanley wrote:

LSC wrote:
"The Netherlands have the lowest hard drug use in Europe."

Source? I use the EMCDDA for my facts who say that simply is not true.

Perhaps you have difficulty understanding the EMCDDA tables LSC?

This is the one you need. It shows that on a rate per 1000 of population the Netherlands has the lowest number of problematic drug users in Europe:

http://www.emcdda.eu

ropa.eu/stats12#disp

lay:/stats12/pdutab1

02a

I don't understand.
Why would you post something that completely supports my argument?

You people confuse me.

I also note you people never comment on other stories on this site. Only cannabis stories.
You have no opinion whatsoever on all the other diverse matters that effect our community, just drugs.

We have debates about parking, taxes, politics, planning, building, religion, litter, dog walking and many others.
But you only show up for the drugs debate.

So who has an agenda here, you lot or me?

I'm just chewing the fat. You lot either need drugs badly or stand to gain by them.
It is the only conclusion.

LSC wrote:

Babs Stanley wrote:

LSC wrote:
"The Netherlands have the lowest hard drug use in Europe."

Source? I use the EMCDDA for my facts who say that simply is not true.

Perhaps you have difficulty understanding the EMCDDA tables LSC?

This is the one you need. It shows that on a rate per 1000 of population the Netherlands has the lowest number of problematic drug users in Europe:

http://www.emcdda.eu


ropa.eu/stats12#disp


lay:/stats12/pdutab1


02a

I don't understand.
Why would you post something that completely supports my argument?

You people confuse me.

It's very evident that you are confused LSC. Your ideas support organised crime, violence, allowing children access to cannabis, maintaining a £6 billion pa black market. I mean I assume you're confused or do you actually really want these things?

It is you that are obviously confused.

You say that at the moment children are using it. So there are children who want to use it, right?
There is a MARKET there; people are making money from selling to children.
You are seriously suggesting that market would simply disappear?

What, for one second would stop some scum buying legal cannabis then selling it on to children for profit?
In fact this could be very lucrative and would be a black market that appealed to organised crime.

Your argument is more full of holes than your brain.

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:

LSC wrote:
The Rover; insert the word 'Herion' for 'cannabis' in your post and you could use the exact same argument without even changing the wording.

Cannabis is not heroine though, heroine is one of the most dangerous destructive addictive drugs on Earth. Cannabis is the safest non addictive on earth, although i recognize it has a potential for harm, as do burgers. But we dont prohibit junk food and jail unhealthy eaters to 'save them from themselves' so why cannabis? Or isit easier to call cannabis 'drugs' and group it together with all hard drugs? Alcohol is a drug, far more destructive than cannabis, yet when prohibited, the dangers where obvious and less than 10 years later the re legalized alcohol, and society became safer. Did it stop 100% of moonshiners? Nope, but compared to how it was there where hardly any left in comparison. Did it stop under age drinking, Nope...but it made alcohol MUCH harder for kids to obtain. Simply because it became regulated, and not left in the hands of criminals. Its the same with cannabis in 2012.

Oh, will you shut up about alcohol comparisons, it is a complete red herring and you well know it.
I have already agreed alcohol is dangerous. So?
If Alcohol is a .357 Magnum and cannabis is only a .22, you still wouldn't want to be shot in the head by either.

The point is, you aren't here arguing about banning alcohol, the larger bullet. You are here arguing to legalise the smaller bullet.

Because you need that fix, don't you?

If Alcohol is a .357 Magnum cannabis is a water pistol. And these harms have to be compared to put things in perspective. You think i want cannabis to be legalised so i can use it without fear of jail? LOL!!! How simplistic!!!! I will use cannabis (even though i dont) when ever I want regardless of its legality. You think the legal regulation of cannabis comes from a very selfish place, thinking we just want to be able to smoke/grow without fear of arrest and imprisonment. When that is but a minor factor in the grand scheme. Understand that prohibition is evil, and is causing far more problems than cannabis ever could. It effects everyone, cannabis user or not. Understand, the demand wont go away simply because its illegal, therefore you are left with a choice, who would you prefer controlling the cannabis market? Government approved professionals, from lab testing to quality control, to growing and selling by extremely informed caring people. Or criminal drug dealers? Who dont even know what CBD is, and spray the cannabis up with glass particles or heroine to get their young clientèle hooked onto something that will destroy their life, all in the name of profits. Its a no brainer for those with a brain.

LSC wrote:
It is you that are obviously confused.

You say that at the moment children are using it. So there are children who want to use it, right?
There is a MARKET there; people are making money from selling to children.
You are seriously suggesting that market would simply disappear?

What, for one second would stop some scum buying legal cannabis then selling it on to children for profit?
In fact this could be very lucrative and would be a black market that appealed to organised crime.

Your argument is more full of holes than your brain.

I think the idea is harm reduction, people like you are just fine with current situation and are scared of change. Kids find cannabis easier to obtain than alcohol and tobacco, even with those drugs regulated so poorly. The FACT is when a country legally regulates cannabis, the use goes down and age of first use goes up. Will regulation stop 100% of kids using cannabis, nope, but it would be MUCH better than it is now. Yes i understand when legalized there would still be a market for dealers to sell to kids. Yet we dont see that in Holland, Israel, Spain, Canada so why in the UK? Even if when legalized, a gap in the market for criminals to sell to teens still exists, then at-least police can focus on a real crime, as opposed to going after a responsible adult smoking or growing non problematically.

First of all, don't tell me what I think.
At no point did I ever say I was fine with the current situation. I'm not.
The organised crime that surrounds cannabis is appalling and has it's fingers in many far more serious pies.

Anyone who currently uses cannabis is aware of that. But they don't care.

Someone who is SO selfish that they will happily use a product that they KNOW is causing death, disease and misery is not a useful member of society, and therefore cannot be in the right.

My solution is to have the debate at Government level and make a choice. UNTIL THEN keep up the war on people doing illegal things and punish them properly.

You could halve the crime rate and free up police for major crime overnight if you legalised shoplifting of goods under £10. After all, nobody gets hurt by shoplifting and Tescos can afford it.

But that would be morally wrong and ridiculous.

By all means, campaign to legalise cannabis, put your case. But any person who uses it at the moment has no voice in my opinion because they are showing their true colours; they don't really care about the rest of the world or the consequences, they just want their drug.

And that, I propose, isn't healthy.

Your argument just makes NO SENSE.

You have stated many times that alcohol is dangerous. You also have stated that prohibition of alcohol was a bad idea that didn't work.

So by that argument, you must be in favour of legalising heroin. The same rules apply; it is bad for you and prohibition puts it in the hands of the underworld. Therefore, make it legal and only sold to consenting adults, yes?

You really think that is a good idea?

''Someone who is SO selfish that they will happily use a product that they KNOW is causing death, disease and misery is not a useful member of society, and therefore cannot be in the right.''

Cannabis doesnt cause death, disease and misery, prohibiting it does. So if i grow my own cannabis at the end of my garden whos the victim? Many many many non cannabis users such as myself know prohibition isnt working. You dont have to be a smoker to support legal regulation.

''UNTIL THEN keep up the war on people doing illegal things and punish them properly.''

I agree, but its an unjust law for people who need cannabis medicinally or want it recreationally as a safer alternative to alcohol. The law isnt always there to protect us, remember segregation? Also your fooling yourself if you believe it being illegal has anything to do with harm reduction.

''they don't really care about the rest of the world or the consequences, they just want their drug.''

A classic example of someone not being able to comprehend that it goes much further than personal freedoms. Forget the legality, the act of smoking cannabis is safer than smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol. Yet with cannabis, the government want to interfere and 'save us from ourselves'.
Some one using cannabis is a health issue ( if that ) not a criminal issue. The laws regarding cannabis are ridiculous and if they are based on a simplistic view like 'they just want their drug' then no wonder where in this mess. A drugs policy shouldnt be based on anecdotes, hear say and prejudices. More like expert advice and science. A cannabis user being able to smoke without fear of arrest is about 15% of why it should be legally regulated. I dont think you can see past the simplistic view of 'they just want their drug legally' and if thats the case then you may want to wake up.

LSC wrote:
Your argument just makes NO SENSE.

You have stated many times that alcohol is dangerous. You also have stated that prohibition of alcohol was a bad idea that didn't work.

So by that argument, you must be in favour of legalising heroin. The same rules apply; it is bad for you and prohibition puts it in the hands of the underworld. Therefore, make it legal and only sold to consenting adults, yes?

You really think that is a good idea?

You seem to always jump to hard drugs like heroine, where talking about cannabis, keep up please.

SuperSilverSourDiese
l wrote:

LSC wrote:
Your argument just makes NO SENSE.

You have stated many times that alcohol is dangerous. You also have stated that prohibition of alcohol was a bad idea that didn't work.

So by that argument, you must be in favour of legalising heroin. The same rules apply; it is bad for you and prohibition puts it in the hands of the underworld. Therefore, make it legal and only sold to consenting adults, yes?

You really think that is a good idea?

You seem to always jump to hard drugs like heroine, where talking about cannabis, keep up please.

If we are talking about cannabis, why do you keep bringing up alcohol?
Keep up please.

God, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:

LSC wrote:
Your argument just makes NO SENSE.

You have stated many times that alcohol is dangerous. You also have stated that prohibition of alcohol was a bad idea that didn't work.

So by that argument, you must be in favour of legalising heroin. The same rules apply; it is bad for you and prohibition puts it in the hands of the underworld. Therefore, make it legal and only sold to consenting adults, yes?

You really think that is a good idea?

You seem to always jump to hard drugs like heroine, where talking about cannabis, keep up please.

If we are talking about cannabis, why do you keep bringing up alcohol?
Keep up please.

Im bringing alcohol into it as a reference for a comparative of harms. Not grouping cannabis and alcohol together unable to differentiate between the two.

"Im bringing alcohol into it as a reference for a comparative of harms. Not grouping cannabis and alcohol together unable to differentiate between the two."

Ok that didn't actually make sense as a sentence, but it's late and, well you know, after a few smokes...

So what you are trying to say (badly) is that you can bring alcohol into the debate because it is more harmful than cannabis, but I can't bring herion into the debate because it is more harmful than cannabis.

I'm trying to think of a polite way of saying 'You are a moron', but can't.

Give me 5 minutes.


Got it. You appear to be... no that isn't it.

Nope. I cannot think of a sentence that is polite, so I will say nothing.

I am, by the way, now having this debate purely for amusement to see how much more stupid you can make yourself look.
You are doing very well so far.

But you still haven't mentioned the Nazis.
Get on with it.

LSC have to agree some of the pro cannabis posts are fantastic, but only in their stupidity! The only people who advocate legalising cannabis are surprise surprise those that use it and are it seems too befuddled to comprehend the negative impact this drug has on peoples lives.

I've seen first hand the effects long term use has on people (and sorry, did someone claim it wasn’t addictive? Maybe not for everyone, but it is for plenty of people) and it turns people into useless members of society

garston tony wrote:
LSC have to agree some of the pro cannabis posts are fantastic, but only in their stupidity! The only people who advocate legalising cannabis are surprise surprise those that use it and are it seems too befuddled to comprehend the negative impact this drug has on peoples lives.

I've seen first hand the effects long term use has on people (and sorry, did someone claim it wasn’t addictive? Maybe not for everyone, but it is for plenty of people) and it turns people into useless members of society

Debating with you Tony is rarely such fun. You tend to put forward sensible points that I don't happen to agree with, and then I have to think.
This is just a gigglefest.

On the serious side though, I too have seen many a bright young thing descend into a mono-sylable couch potato after using for a while, and sadly seen a few up the ante to harder drugs.
Many of these people are completely lawful in every other way, but they need their drug so badly they are suddenly willing to risk arrest for it.
That HAS to be the definition of dangerous!

Changing tack slightly but is it me or are people just getting stupider these days?

Its not just people kidding themselves about the effects of their drug taking, everywhere you look there are people being idiots left right and centre.

I blame the rise in the multi media culture and consumerism combined with the 'its never my fault' attitude prevelent everywhere and the decline in morals and consideration for others.

Oh, and the something for nothing culture too.

Not so long ago you had to work for what you had, now people who have never lifted a finger in their lives have new big tv's whilst people who work struggle to put food on their plates.

I heard a little of a radio 5 debate yesterday at the Lib Dem conference and this 17 yr old apprentice stood up and asked the mp's present why he should continue with his apprentership when he would be better off on the dole. I cant remember their answer because all I could think of was the reason why he should continue is because he'd have qualifications at the end of it, be in a trade that could be very well paid and have a better life in total. Yet here he was about to jack it in because right now he'd be better off on the dole.

Like hello, thats practically always been the case when you're young. You start off in low paid positions, get your training etc and then move on. Now even that motivation has gone.

Sorry venting off!! I'm sure this does have something to do with pot heads, something along the line of our culture allowing people to doss through life at everyone elses expense

I think there are a thousand reasons, Tony, but three that stand out for me are: Lack of Community, Identity, and Education.

These failings have re-defined the word Pride. People just aren't proud in the same way anymore.

Sitting down the Local and saying how well your kids are doing is infinatelty different to updating your Facebook page to say : Son gone to Uni LOL.

Most locals are gone. Local coppers are gone. The queues at the Greengrocers where everybody chatted are gone. The primary school gate huddle of mothers ready to walk the kids home is gone, now they sit in their cars on the yellow zig-zags.

It might sound all nostalgic but losing these things I think has had an effect. Succeeding through hard work is no longer so important because you so rarely have to look anyone else in the eye anymore.

Not well put but you get the idea.

This is something that has driven me insane for much of my life living outside of a tight-knit community. Watford is a place where you're not expected to know the person walking on the other side of the road (because of the size of the population, everyone not belonging to the same church etc). Because of this, we don't have the spirit, friendliness. Not even at a WFC match do I talk to the people sitting around me in the Rookery in a pleasant manner! There's no familiarity, no smiles, no happiness...just a willingness for everyone to keep themselves to themselves.

But anyway, back to the main subject, this LSC guy sounds like he's a man who understands traditional values. He has heard many facts and chosen to ignore them because this is what traditionalists, conservatives often choose to do. This is normal, liberalism is very unnerving for the programmed machine that is the resident of the UK. I do enjoy cannabis from time to time, it's a guilty pleasure of mine as a glass of wine or scotch for another. Not everyone gets addicted to cannabis, just as not everyone will become addicted to alcohol.

There are many youths who I have seen, as you have, who have become grounded in a bottomless pit with cannabis as they binge on copious amounts day after day trying to escape from the real world. Instead of spending government money on these people to allow them to do this, we should be educating them about the dangers from an early age. Cannabis can be helpful, but from my experience and viewing the experiences of others close to me it certainly isn't helpful 100% of the time, perhaps not even 50% of the time.

We need to stop separating these people from the system, labelling them as criminals. They are human beings just as we are. If we could decriminalise this medicine perhaps we wouldn't just make money through the taxation of the distribution and sales, we could also make money through the income tax of a large proportion of human beings who feel as if they're not detached from the majority of the country anymore! Win/win.

Wow, the first rational and honest argument I have witnessed on here.

I don't agree with you, but at least you aren't clutching at straws like the other posters.
Gems such as the guy talking about regulation then in the same breath wanting to grow his own in the back-garden. So that would be unregulated regulation then. A stupid argument.

I actually believe cannabis has it's place in the world; I have heard it does marvels for MS sufferers. Fine by me.

But what bothers me is when people are willing to break the current law to do something and then make up any excuse to justify it. ANY excuse.

I haven't 'chosen to ignore facts', I have listened to both sides of a debate for many years and made my personal conclusion.

My conclusion is that in order to get cannabis, people are willing to break the law, tell lies and make up statistics.
They are willing to put money into organised crime and do business with the underworld. They are willing to risk mental health, prosecution and relationships.

Does that sound like a harmless little past-time to you? I decided it wasn't.

I don't think that is a traditionalist, conservative or liberal point of view.

It is just logical.

Nuttenthusiast, the lack of community is not just in Watford or the south east but exists all over. I've plenty of in laws in Yorkshire and visit them regularly and it’s the same there, which I find ironic as I'm always being told how unfriendly people are down south but they complain about the same thing in their neck of the wood!

Your post about cannabis was far more realistic than all the other 'pro' smoking ones acknowledging that it can be detrimental but there was still a slight hypocracy to it (wrong word but its early) in the sense you seemed to want the drug legalised so that those adversly affected can get treatment but the fact that there are plenty of people who do suffer through using cannabis surely shows that its right that it is illegal?!?

LSC my top three would be lack of community, consumerism and media at the moment.

The thing about education is that despite the issues surrounding schools and exams etc. our education system is still pretty darn good and for the vast majority of students there is no excuse for them not making the most of it. Saddly too many don’t.

We're constantly bombarded with rubbish (through many mediums) that we are told is important, celebrity news often taking precedence over actual proper news such as what is happening in Syria etc, talent contests masquerading as top quality shows. Too many people think celebrity status is the be all and end all.

And also through media we're being told we're nobodies unless we have the best mobile, a big tv, a new car, trendy clothes eat this or drink that etc and people buy into and now we believe that these belongings are the most important in our lives (going back to children parents think they are doing the best for their children if they buy them stuff) but ultimately whats hot today is tomorrows landfill and it’s a vacuous pursuit. People get into debt or skew their priorities chasing emptiness.

I know this is nothing really specific to do with drugs, but then it is at the same time as taking drugs is another vacuous habit that people believe will fulfil them, give them enjoyment etc. when really it destroys them.

This is crossing over into another discussion we had recently but the happiest people I ever meet are those in countries Roy would call 'backward' . People who live on the whole a simple existence, whose life is full of purpose i.e. needing to grow or find food and who have a really strong sense of family and community spirit. People who are hospitable even to total strangers and who would given someone they have never met their last scrap of food. People who smile and laugh even though their life is not easy. They might not have nice cars, they might not wear designer gear or have tv's or games consoles but they are far far far happier than practically everyone I see in this country!