Murray Thompson's killer jailed for 21 years (From Watford Observer)

These dreadful crimes arise only because of the great immoral evil that is prohibition. Exactly the same sort of crime wave was started by alcohol prohibition in the US.

Are we so stupid that we cannot learn the lessons of history? If we prohibit something for which there is huge demand then the price rises and violent criminals become involved.

We need to stop this stupid and unwinnable war against cannabis. It is causing far more harm to our communities than it prevents. If we had a properly regulated system of production and supply we'd have no more illegal cannabis farms, instead we'd have thousands of new jobs. We'd have no more dealers on the streets. Cannabis would be available to adults only through licensed outlets and we'd have some control over the THC and CBD content.

Doctors would be able to prescribe one of the most effective medicines that has no serious side effects at all. At the moment the government has given GW Pharmaceuticals an illegal monopoly on cannabis so they make millions out of a medicine that you can grow in your greenhouse for virtually nothing.

If we introduced a legally regulated system we would solve nearly all the problems around cannabis. Science proves how much safer it is than tobacco, alcohol, prescription medicines and all other recreational drugs. If anyone does have a problem with it they could get help without having to confess to a crime.

CLEAR published independent, expert research last year which shows that a tax and regulate policy on cannabis would produce a net gain to the UK economy of up to £9.3 billion per annum.

It is a scandal that our government, our judges, our courts, our police and our newspapers keep misleading us about cannabis. Find out the truth for yourself and wake up to the lies you have been told.

To the family and friends of the lady, a terrible loss and my thoughts are with you...

To the media scum who perpetuate the demonization of cannabis, you are not helping.

The supporters of prohibition on cannabis are not concerned with the health of our nation - this is obvious, you don't see daily articles relating to tobacco fatalities?

The UK government claims "Cannabis has no medicinal value whatsoever, yet the UK government issues licence to GW Pharmaceutical to grow skunk???

Double-standards for the UK Gov.

While the the thieving royals, the bankers, the politicians run free with public money, the 'clever/conscious' police are out arresting cannabis citizens at an hourly rate....

The Police know cannabis is harmless, the crown prosecution knows cannabis is harmless, the Courts know that cannabis is harmless, yet still they arrest ordinary citizens.

The UK is rotten from the top down.

Grow your cannabis, sell it!! To hell with the bent coppers and their bent handlers!!

The UK Government wants all subversive elements in prison (those people who stand up to the real criminals) and arresting cannabis goes a fair way to achieving this end.

"A remorseless cannabis grower" He was a **** murderer!
What sort of insane "journalism" is this?
How often are murderers defined by their hobbies? Why do these "reporters" only insist on defining someone by their hobby when their hobby is smoking weed?
Most murders are actually commited under the influence of alcohol, but nooooo, they don't want to report that do they, they want to push alcohol as a safe harmless pass time to satisfy their sponsors! These people are so desperate to demonise cannabis while promoting the most dangerous drug in Britain, alcohol.
Utterly pathetic.

We are currently living the worst case scenario; hardcore gangsters, who think murder is just part of the job, making millions from cannabis, which of course gives them untold power.

Cannabis is itself hugely safe when compared with alcohol, so it's double madness that we hand sole supply to criminals like this, with the massive profits and huge power that goes with it.

Isn't it time we took this monopoly off these gangsters? That's the only way we'll ever stop them. The only way we can do that is with legalisation.

The truth is that society would be a far richer, happier, healthier, and more considerate place if we legalised cannabis. Those are just scientific facts.

Visit CLEAR to find out more. You can find us on Facebook.

You lot are quite funny really, in a cute sort of way.

morgansgoat wrote:
"A remorseless cannabis grower" He was a **** murderer!
What sort of insane "journalism" is this?
How often are murderers defined by their hobbies? Why do these "reporters" only insist on defining someone by their hobby when their hobby is smoking weed?
Most murders are actually commited under the influence of alcohol, but nooooo, they don't want to report that do they, they want to push alcohol as a safe harmless pass time to satisfy their sponsors! These people are so desperate to demonise cannabis while promoting the most dangerous drug in Britain, alcohol.
Utterly pathetic.

Lol - excellent points. They are certainly pushing the cannabis angle with this story - cannabis is the real crime here not murder!

Of course, the problem is when the police follow the same skewed thinking; de-prioritising much more serious crimes to target pot heads. Unfortunately that happens the length and breadth of the country too; expensive police raids for weed, whilst paedophiles, or groomers, or rapists, or violent thugs, or metal thieves, or many many more real criminals with very real victims, all deemed a less priority than cannabis, where there are no victims.

That's beyond utterly pathetic - it's actually a total disgrace.

LSC wrote:
You lot are quite funny really, in a cute sort of way.

Have you embraced science yet LSC, or are you still happily wallowing in your sea of ignorance?

I'm pretty sure that science and reason are here to stay, so you may as well jump on the bandwagon!

American taxpayers are being forced to pay $40 Billion a year for a prohibition that causes 10,000 brutal murders & 800,000 needless arrests each year, but which doesn't even stop CHILDREN getting marijuana.

After seventy years of prohibition, it's obvious that the federal marijuana prohibition causes FAR more harm than good and must END! Drug Dealers Don't Card, Supermarkets Do.

This is another example of the dangerous fail prohibition is. Gifting criminals control over the market...hmmm cant be too surprised when violence occurs. Bringing cannabis into a regulated system will see drug use go down, age of first use go up and associated crimes decline. The statistical evidence is too strong to say otherwise. The only reason why they dont regulate, allowing the violence to continue has nothing to do with the potential for harm in cannabis, as we see prohibiting it causes much more problems. They disallow regulation because of their vested interest, pressure from alcohol lobby and the jobs secured with prohibition in place. Cannabis being illegal has nothing to do with harm reduction, expert advice, scientific evidence or our health and safety. Prohibition is DANGEROUS. JUST SAY NO!!!

Jack Herer wrote:

LSC wrote:
You lot are quite funny really, in a cute sort of way.

Have you embraced science yet LSC, or are you still happily wallowing in your sea of ignorance?

I'm pretty sure that science and reason are here to stay, so you may as well jump on the bandwagon!

I'm fairly familiar with science thanks. I was on the design team for the wiring systems at Vauxhall, then went on to repair RADAR systems on Tornado fighters. You need a pretty clear head for that, so you need not apply.
I have two engineering degrees and now run a Charity full time, so my ignorance has seen me ok so far in life.

My argument is not really about cannabis; my argument is with your arguments. They make no sense, so instantly I get suspicious about motives.

You call for Regulation but also the right to grow your own in the garden. Eh?

You tell me not to bring Heroin into the arguement because we are talking about cannabis. Then you bang on about alcohol every five minutes.

You say it will stop sales to children but fail to tell me what would stop anyone selling it to them.

You say it will lower the crime rate when easily Googled facts state it doesn't.

You say it is a hobby. No, it is a crime. Is crime a hobby now?

You keep refering to it as 'prohibition' when the word 'banned' or 'illegal' would do perfectly well. But the word prohibition conjours up black and white films of Moonshine runners and Speakeasies in the roaring 20's.

You quote anyone, and I mean anyone, no matter how obscure (the ex mayor of Baltimore? Is that the best you could find?) who backs your cause. If you read this site more often, you might see that people don't always think mayors know everything.

When I bring these matters up, you resort to calling me names.

So on balance, I'm comfy with my opinion that you desperately need your drug of choice and are willing to use any argument, no matter how ridiculous to justify it. And then break the law of the land to get it.

QED.

LSC wrote:

Jack Herer wrote:

LSC wrote:
You lot are quite funny really, in a cute sort of way.

Have you embraced science yet LSC, or are you still happily wallowing in your sea of ignorance?

I'm pretty sure that science and reason are here to stay, so you may as well jump on the bandwagon!

I'm fairly familiar with science thanks. I was on the design team for the wiring systems at Vauxhall, then went on to repair RADAR systems on Tornado fighters. You need a pretty clear head for that, so you need not apply.
I have two engineering degrees and now run a Charity full time, so my ignorance has seen me ok so far in life.

My argument is not really about cannabis; my argument is with your arguments. They make no sense, so instantly I get suspicious about motives.

You call for Regulation but also the right to grow your own in the garden. Eh?

You tell me not to bring Heroin into the arguement because we are talking about cannabis. Then you bang on about alcohol every five minutes.

You say it will stop sales to children but fail to tell me what would stop anyone selling it to them.

You say it will lower the crime rate when easily Googled facts state it doesn't.

You say it is a hobby. No, it is a crime. Is crime a hobby now?

You keep refering to it as 'prohibition' when the word 'banned' or 'illegal' would do perfectly well. But the word prohibition conjours up black and white films of Moonshine runners and Speakeasies in the roaring 20's.

You quote anyone, and I mean anyone, no matter how obscure (the ex mayor of Baltimore? Is that the best you could find?) who backs your cause. If you read this site more often, you might see that people don't always think mayors know everything.

When I bring these matters up, you resort to calling me names.

So on balance, I'm comfy with my opinion that you desperately need your drug of choice and are willing to use any argument, no matter how ridiculous to justify it. And then break the law of the land to get it.

QED.

I have a degree in Physics thanks (from a time when going to university meant something; when uni's were uni's and poly's were poly's), I haven't just gained my scientific knowledge from a few meetings in an office about wiring systems.

My arguments aren't ridiculous, they are based on sound scientific reasoning.

I have no idea what you are on about with the "ex mayor of Baltimore", I'm guessing you have me mixed up someone else.

No disrespect, but your "googled" facts definitely sound suspect too.

No disrespect! You accused me of wallowing in a sea of ignorance! That counts as respectful now?

I am sure I do have you mixed up, as your crowd always turn up en masse whenever there is a cannabis story. I note you take no interest whatsoever with all the other stories on here that affect our community, just the drugs ones.
Which again, smacks of a selfish agenda revolving purely about your access to drugs.

Do you have an opinion about the revamp of the Town Centre? I doubt you are even local.

Will you answer my other points?

LSC wrote:
No disrespect! You accused me of wallowing in a sea of ignorance! That counts as respectful now?

I am sure I do have you mixed up, as your crowd always turn up en masse whenever there is a cannabis story. I note you take no interest whatsoever with all the other stories on here that affect our community, just the drugs ones.
Which again, smacks of a selfish agenda revolving purely about your access to drugs.

Do you have an opinion about the revamp of the Town Centre? I doubt you are even local.

Will you answer my other points?

Sorry but when alcohol is compared to cannabis, its to put harms in perspective. Why do you keep banging on about heroine?

SuperSilverSourDiese
l wrote:

LSC wrote:
No disrespect! You accused me of wallowing in a sea of ignorance! That counts as respectful now?

I am sure I do have you mixed up, as your crowd always turn up en masse whenever there is a cannabis story. I note you take no interest whatsoever with all the other stories on here that affect our community, just the drugs ones.
Which again, smacks of a selfish agenda revolving purely about your access to drugs.

Do you have an opinion about the revamp of the Town Centre? I doubt you are even local.

Will you answer my other points?

Sorry but when alcohol is compared to cannabis, its to put harms in perspective. Why do you keep banging on about heroine?

Ah, so you want to choose comparisons.
Alcohol, cannabis and heroin are all drugs which have an effect on the human body and the community they are found in.

But you only want to discuss two of them.

Interesting.

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:

LSC wrote:
No disrespect! You accused me of wallowing in a sea of ignorance! That counts as respectful now?

I am sure I do have you mixed up, as your crowd always turn up en masse whenever there is a cannabis story. I note you take no interest whatsoever with all the other stories on here that affect our community, just the drugs ones.
Which again, smacks of a selfish agenda revolving purely about your access to drugs.

Do you have an opinion about the revamp of the Town Centre? I doubt you are even local.

Will you answer my other points?

Sorry but when alcohol is compared to cannabis, its to put harms in perspective. Why do you keep banging on about heroine?

Ah, so you want to choose comparisons.
Alcohol, cannabis and heroin are all drugs which have an effect on the human body and the community they are found in.

But you only want to discuss two of them.

Interesting.

LOL so because cannabis and heroine are both drugs that means they are the same? Interesting, murder and theft are both crimes, does it mean they are they same thing? I could compare cannabis to aspirin, and cannabis is safer. So it goes without saying that its safer than alcohol and heroine. People like you group cannabis with hard drugs, why? Your not comparing it to heroine, your saying its the same thing because they are both drugs. One is proven to be the safest recreational drug/medicine we have on earth (cannabis) One is highly addictive and causes death and misery thought out the world, even as a medicine its extremely dangerous. Only because they are both 'drugs' doesnt mean they are the same thing. Cannabis is a plant, heroine is not, Heroine was a plant until man turned it in to the dangerous addictive powder that is sold on the streets. Understand the specifics instead of the easier option, grouping every drug together unable to tell the difference between Cannabis and Heroine.

“I’m fairly confident that cannabis is safe for over-18 brains, but risky for under-18 brains.” - Professor Terrie Moffitt, Institute of Psychiatry at King’s College London, 2012

THE SAME CANNOT BE SAID ABOUT HEROINE

What? That doesn't even make sense!
Go ahead, compare cannabis with asprin by all means. They are both drugs that effect the human body.
Compare it with any drug on the planet. But for some reason not herion?

Why's that then?

Are there a little too many comparisons and links you would prefer to avoid discussing?

Like the fact heroin users and cannabis users share the same morals by funding organised crime?
Which one of them dies first doesn't change that point much, does it?

LSC wrote:
What? That doesn't even make sense!
Go ahead, compare cannabis with asprin by all means. They are both drugs that effect the human body.
Compare it with any drug on the planet. But for some reason not herion?

Why's that then?

Are there a little too many comparisons and links you would prefer to avoid discussing?

Like the fact heroin users and cannabis users share the same morals by funding organised crime?
Which one of them dies first doesn't change that point much, does it?

There is simply no getting through to you, and instead of understanding the specifics you prefer to group cannabis with hard drugs like Heroine just because they both have an effect on the Human Body. Well so does coffee and sugar, going to compare that to heroine as well?
Or does the legality of the drug make a difference to your perception of its harms.

And your quote is priceless. Someone I've never heard of refuses to commit an opinion.

Is that seriously the best you can do?
Your friend accuses me of lacking in science then you pull out 'Fairly confident' and 'Risky' as EVIDENCE for your case.

Am I the victim of some Channel 4 comedy show here?

SuperSilverSourDiese
l wrote:

LSC wrote:
What? That doesn't even make sense!
Go ahead, compare cannabis with asprin by all means. They are both drugs that effect the human body.
Compare it with any drug on the planet. But for some reason not herion?

Why's that then?

Are there a little too many comparisons and links you would prefer to avoid discussing?

Like the fact heroin users and cannabis users share the same morals by funding organised crime?
Which one of them dies first doesn't change that point much, does it?

There is simply no getting through to you, and instead of understanding the specifics you prefer to group cannabis with hard drugs like Heroine just because they both have an effect on the Human Body. Well so does coffee and sugar, going to compare that to heroine as well?
Or does the legality of the drug make a difference to your perception of its harms.

I'm happy to compare sugar with heroin.

Sugar rots your teeth but is sweet and gives you some energy. It is legal.

Herion usually kills you. It is illegal.

There you go.

Why am I not allowed to do the same with cannabis?

Yes, the illegal part bugs me, did I not make that clear enough?
Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:

LSC wrote:
What? That doesn't even make sense!
Go ahead, compare cannabis with asprin by all means. They are both drugs that effect the human body.
Compare it with any drug on the planet. But for some reason not herion?

Why's that then?

Are there a little too many comparisons and links you would prefer to avoid discussing?

Like the fact heroin users and cannabis users share the same morals by funding organised crime?
Which one of them dies first doesn't change that point much, does it?

There is simply no getting through to you, and instead of understanding the specifics you prefer to group cannabis with hard drugs like Heroine just because they both have an effect on the Human Body. Well so does coffee and sugar, going to compare that to heroine as well?
Or does the legality of the drug make a difference to your perception of its harms.

I'm happy to compare sugar with heroin.

Sugar rots your teeth but is sweet and gives you some energy. It is legal.

Herion usually kills you. It is illegal.

There you go.

Why am I not allowed to do the same with cannabis?

Yes, the illegal part bugs me, did I not make that clear enough?
Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?

Mcdonalds is far from harmless, yet we dont introduce unjust laws that prohibit burgers and jail unhealthy eaters even though side effects could be obesity and death.

So when someone grows a few plants in their back garden, how is that supporting organised crime? If anything that is depriving the black market of their income. If everyone grew their own, organized crime would be delivered a serious blow.

Oh wait, GW pharma (who sell the most expensive skunk in the world) wouldnt like that would they, if everyone could grow the same medicine they grow for next to nothing, may pose a threat financially.

''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

"So when someone grows a few plants in their back garden, how is that supporting organised crime? If anything that is depriving the black market of their income. If everyone grew their own, organized crime would be delivered a serious blow."

Sorry, it gets confusing. So you are arguing for UNREGULATED cannabis use, while your friends on here want it REGULATED.
I have little problems if everybody grew their own. But do you think they would? Or would a few grow a bit more and sell it to the ones who can't be bothered? Would they declare that on their tax returns? Would all of them demand age ID before making a sale?

Oh, look, organised crime.

Stop wasting my time.

SuperSilverSourDiese
l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

Being allowed to grow you own for personal use has nothing to do with it not being regulated, so as you are able to brew your own beer as long as you don't sell it. People selling it without licence should still be prosecuted.

And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough.

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

I dont use cannabis, so how stupid do you feel. The fix? What a ****.. do you know what a cannabis high is like? Its not even as strong as the alcohol high. You fool cannabis and the demand for it wont go away simply because its illegal. Gifting the market to criminals has caused a dangerous situation, not the cannabis users. Blood on my hands, i would love you to say that to my face.

Pawel_Si wrote:

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese


l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

Being allowed to grow you own for personal use has nothing to do with it not being regulated, so as you are able to brew your own beer as long as you don't sell it. People selling it without licence should still be prosecuted.

And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough.

Imagine if every cannabis user stopped giving their dealers money, started giving their local gardening shop money. Because cannabis is the most popular drug, the black market is delivered a serious blow just by legalizing home growing. The government could even charge you a fixed rate per month, enriching the economy and pleasing the electricity companies. Anyone who grows without a license or grows more plants than allowed gets a big fine. Selling is still prohibited but people are encouraged to donate a few flowers from their plants to researchers. The only reason why people are not allowed to do this, is because the only people the home office allow to grow cannabis are the people at GW pharma who sell the worlds most expensive cannabis. Not cannabis 'based' medicine, pure cannabis oil stronger than any 'street skunk'. I guess if everyone was allowed to grow their own at home, especially people who need cannabis as medicine, that would pose a threat to GW pharma. Thats one reason why medicinal/recreation
al cannabis users are not allowed to grow at home.

Scumbag, pure evil. Let the family know where the body is.




The following risks are associated with cannabis use:

Even hardcore smokers can become anxious, panicky, suspicious or paranoid.
Cannabis affects your co-ordination, which is one of the reasons why drug driving, like drink driving, is illegal.
Some people think cannabis is harmless because it’s a plant, but it isn’t harmless. Cannabis, like tobacco, has lots of chemical 'nasties', which, with long-term or heavy use, can cause lung disease and possibly cancer. The risk is greater because cannabis is often mixed with tobacco and smoked without a filter. It can also make asthma worse, and cause wheezing in people without asthma.
Cannabis itself can affect many different systems in the body, including the heart. It increases the heart rate and can affect blood pressure.
If you have a history of mental health problems, taking cannabis is not a good idea. It can cause paranoia in the short term, but in those with a pre-existing psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia, it can contribute to relapse.
If you use cannabis and have a family background of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, you may be at increased risk of developing a psychotic illness.
It is reported that frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and reduce sperm motility. It can suppress ovulation in women and so may affect fertility.
If you’re pregnant, smoking cannabis frequently may increase the risk of the baby being born smaller than expected.
Regular, heavy use of cannabis makes it difficult to learn and concentrate. Some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
Some users buy strong herbal cannabis (also known as skunk) to get ‘a bigger high’. Unpleasant reactions can be more powerful when you use strong cannabis, and it is possible that using strong cannabis repeatedly could increase the risk of harmful effects such as dependence or developing mental health problems.

G_Whiz wrote:
Scumbag, pure evil. Let the family know where the body is.




The following risks are associated with cannabis use:

Even hardcore smokers can become anxious, panicky, suspicious or paranoid.
Cannabis affects your co-ordination, which is one of the reasons why drug driving, like drink driving, is illegal.
Some people think cannabis is harmless because it’s a plant, but it isn’t harmless. Cannabis, like tobacco, has lots of chemical 'nasties', which, with long-term or heavy use, can cause lung disease and possibly cancer. The risk is greater because cannabis is often mixed with tobacco and smoked without a filter. It can also make asthma worse, and cause wheezing in people without asthma.
Cannabis itself can affect many different systems in the body, including the heart. It increases the heart rate and can affect blood pressure.
If you have a history of mental health problems, taking cannabis is not a good idea. It can cause paranoia in the short term, but in those with a pre-existing psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia, it can contribute to relapse.
If you use cannabis and have a family background of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, you may be at increased risk of developing a psychotic illness.
It is reported that frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count and reduce sperm motility. It can suppress ovulation in women and so may affect fertility.
If you’re pregnant, smoking cannabis frequently may increase the risk of the baby being born smaller than expected.
Regular, heavy use of cannabis makes it difficult to learn and concentrate. Some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.
Some users buy strong herbal cannabis (also known as skunk) to get ‘a bigger high’. Unpleasant reactions can be more powerful when you use strong cannabis, and it is possible that using strong cannabis repeatedly could increase the risk of harmful effects such as dependence or developing mental health problems.

So still safer than alcohol, tobacco and aspirin then?

“I’m fairly confident that cannabis is safe for over-18 brains, but risky for under-18 brains.” - Professor Terrie Moffitt, Institute of Psychiatry at King’s College London, 2012

So professor said its safe for adults, as most informed professors will tell you its only harmful for children. Its not harmless for adults, but its safer than all the legal recreational drugs and all the medicine in your local pharmacy. Pure evil? Evil is disallowing regulation gifting the market to criminals, prohibition is evil you misguided person. By disallowing any type of regulation the government has placed the young and vulnerable in the worst case scenario. You have no idea of the dangers of prohibition obviously, but evil is arrested harmless people for using cannabis as the medicine it is, as its been used for over 10,000 years.

Dont call me scum, im not the one supporting a policy that keeps criminals rich.

Cannabis being against the law has nothing to do with harm reduction, scientific evidence, expert advice or to see dealers put out of business long term. Its all about money, greed, vested interest and personal prejudices. That is what our drugs policy is based on.

Your in favour of criminals controlling drugs with no regulation and quality control, as opposed to informed professionals selling lab tested cannabis in adult only licensed outlets??

Wow, sure your not a dealer? And you know prohibition keeps you paid and legal regulation may put you out of the job?

Sorry I dislike drug dealers and children using drugs or becoming enticed by gangsterism, so i say NO to prohibition and NOW to legal regulation.

SuperSilverSourDiese
l wrote:

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese


l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

I dont use cannabis, so how stupid do you feel. The fix? What a ****.. do you know what a cannabis high is like? Its not even as strong as the alcohol high. You fool cannabis and the demand for it wont go away simply because its illegal. Gifting the market to criminals has caused a dangerous situation, not the cannabis users. Blood on my hands, i would love you to say that to my face.

Perfect. You really are a gift to my side of the debate.

You don't use cannabis but know that the high isn't the same as alcohol?
Now, how would you know that?

Are you really basing your aggressive argument on hearsay?

Every neutral on here will conclude that you are telling a little porkie pie there.

So you are either a liar, or you don't know first hand what you are talking about.
Either option doesn't really help your case, does it?

As to your last sentence, is that some sort of threat? Have we moved on from insults to violence now? Is that just how weak your argument is?

Yes, I'd say it to your face. I'm in my 40's but fairly fit and not afraid to walk the streets at night.
I personally don't use or threaten violence, but druggies are druggies I suppose and if they can't use words they will resort to other means, I suppose.

Pawel_Si wrote:

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese


l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

Being allowed to grow you own for personal use has nothing to do with it not being regulated, so as you are able to brew your own beer as long as you don't sell it. People selling it without licence should still be prosecuted.

And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough.

Sorry, that kind of negates the 'Freeing up police for real crime' argument doesn't it? They would still have to spend huge amounts of time on regulating your proposal.

So your point is what?

"And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough."

Do the 'Mafia' care more about 'my blessing' or your money?
They hate me; I want them in prison. You pay their wages.

LSC wrote:

Jack Herer wrote:

LSC wrote:
You lot are quite funny really, in a cute sort of way.

Have you embraced science yet LSC, or are you still happily wallowing in your sea of ignorance?

I'm pretty sure that science and reason are here to stay, so you may as well jump on the bandwagon!

I'm fairly familiar with science thanks. I was on the design team for the wiring systems at Vauxhall, then went on to repair RADAR systems on Tornado fighters. You need a pretty clear head for that, so you need not apply.
I have two engineering degrees and now run a Charity full time, so my ignorance has seen me ok so far in life.

My argument is not really about cannabis; my argument is with your arguments. They make no sense, so instantly I get suspicious about motives.

You call for Regulation but also the right to grow your own in the garden. Eh?

You tell me not to bring Heroin into the arguement because we are talking about cannabis. Then you bang on about alcohol every five minutes.

You say it will stop sales to children but fail to tell me what would stop anyone selling it to them.

You say it will lower the crime rate when easily Googled facts state it doesn't.

You say it is a hobby. No, it is a crime. Is crime a hobby now?

You keep refering to it as 'prohibition' when the word 'banned' or 'illegal' would do perfectly well. But the word prohibition conjours up black and white films of Moonshine runners and Speakeasies in the roaring 20's.

You quote anyone, and I mean anyone, no matter how obscure (the ex mayor of Baltimore? Is that the best you could find?) who backs your cause. If you read this site more often, you might see that people don't always think mayors know everything.

When I bring these matters up, you resort to calling me names.

So on balance, I'm comfy with my opinion that you desperately need your drug of choice and are willing to use any argument, no matter how ridiculous to justify it. And then break the law of the land to get it.

QED.

I'm with you LSC!

LSC wrote:

Pawel_Si wrote:

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese



l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

Being allowed to grow you own for personal use has nothing to do with it not being regulated, so as you are able to brew your own beer as long as you don't sell it. People selling it without licence should still be prosecuted.

And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough.

Sorry, that kind of negates the 'Freeing up police for real crime' argument doesn't it? They would still have to spend huge amounts of time on regulating your proposal.

So your point is what?

Not really, at least no more than policing illegal sales of alcohol - mind you that cannabis is less popular.

LSC wrote:
"And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough."

Do the 'Mafia' care more about 'my blessing' or your money?
They hate me; I want them in prison. You pay their wages.

Yes, they do care about your blessing. The more police is tough on drugs, the more profit they get. They don't hate you, they love you.
I don't use drugs, so i am not paying anything, but your blessing makes them money.

Pawel_Si wrote:

LSC wrote:
"And oh, you have given them the whole market just by approving the prohibition. You don't need to buy anything, your blessing is enough."

Do the 'Mafia' care more about 'my blessing' or your money?
They hate me; I want them in prison. You pay their wages.

Yes, they do care about your blessing. The more police is tough on drugs, the more profit they get. They don't hate you, they love you.
I don't use drugs, so i am not paying anything, but your blessing makes them money.

Er, no, the more police are tough on drugs, the more they go to prison.
I wish the police and courts were even tougher on criminals, but you claim criminals like me for that?

Does that make any sense at all?

You don't use drugs but you campaign for them. What other worthy campaigns that don't affect you are you involved in, pray tell?

Do you write at length about the state of shrimp fishing in Arizona?

Do you post to websites about the plight of the wombat moth in Brazil?

Please share your musings on how to make the world a better place by using subjects that don't affect you in the slightest.

I also note nobody has yet addressed my points above timed at 5.13 on Friday.

If any neutral was wondering if cannabis really does affect your IQ, well, here is the thread. You decide.

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese

l wrote:

LSC wrote:

SuperSilverSourDiese



l wrote:
''Current users are killing people by knowingly supporting organised crime, but they don't seem to care, such is the lure of the drug.

Does that not make it dangerous?''

You have just pointed out one of the dangers of prohibition. It gifts the market to organized crime.

No, only buying it does that. I don't buy it so have given nothing to the the criminals. You do. You have.
The blood is on your hands, not mine.

Was the fix worth it? Really?

I dont use cannabis, so how stupid do you feel. The fix? What a ****.. do you know what a cannabis high is like? Its not even as strong as the alcohol high. You fool cannabis and the demand for it wont go away simply because its illegal. Gifting the market to criminals has caused a dangerous situation, not the cannabis users. Blood on my hands, i would love you to say that to my face.

Perfect. You really are a gift to my side of the debate.

You don't use cannabis but know that the high isn't the same as alcohol?
Now, how would you know that?

Are you really basing your aggressive argument on hearsay?

Every neutral on here will conclude that you are telling a little porkie pie there.

So you are either a liar, or you don't know first hand what you are talking about.
Either option doesn't really help your case, does it?

As to your last sentence, is that some sort of threat? Have we moved on from insults to violence now? Is that just how weak your argument is?

Yes, I'd say it to your face. I'm in my 40's but fairly fit and not afraid to walk the streets at night.
I personally don't use or threaten violence, but druggies are druggies I suppose and if they can't use words they will resort to other means, I suppose.

No you dont go round telling people they have blood on their hands even if its on the internet. I dont use cannabis, and the people i know who do use cannabis have no blood on their hands. In my opinion, disallowing regulation, gifting the market to dangerous criminals is not how to deal with the situation. When two pharmacists argue, they dont usually resort to gang violence like criminals do. Our leaders have blood on their hands by doing nothing to stop criminals controlling the market. Throwing people in jail doesnt make a difference, the demand and supply wont go away because its illegal and the police could focus on crimes that have victims, instead of 'protecting us from ourselves'. In countries that legally regulate cannabis, age of first use goes up and the cannabis use goes down along with associated crime. All these years of prohibition have been a fail. Punishing people for medicating or getting high for the fun of it is not the way forward. The amount of death and destruction caused by alcohol alone, yet prohibiting it wouldnt stop that, infact by disallowing regulation all it would do is hand the control to criminals, well, a short history lesson will teach you how well alcohol prohibition went.

So we are talking about alcohol again?

I thought we decided we were talking about cannabis, because I'm not allowed to mention heroin?

You are right that our leaders aren't doing enough; they should lock up users and dealers for longer.

But as for never stopping it, a biblical scholar might point out that Cane murdered Able. Therefore murder is one of the oldest crimes in history, and it still happens despite many different attempts to stop it.

By your reasoning murder is going to happen anyway so why waste police time on it? It won't go away no matter how many people we lock up. So what do you suggest, legalise it?

You might say murder has victims and cannabis does not. Well, you are wrong.

Under the present laws cannabis users fund organised crime which ruins lives.

But they don't care.

Of course, none of you on here are users. You honestly think we believe that? I'm the only person on the entire site to admit trying it!

So you start your whole argument as suspected liars, why would anyone believe anything else you say?

This thread has gone well off topic people, there will always be the pro/anti camp for legalisation, but the story was about a court case and a families dispair of not being able to give their lad a funeral. Maybe as a sign of respect to the family that people stop the mud slinging and one upmanship on their academic attainments and lock this thread from further postings. Just a thought.

theturpster wrote:
This thread has gone well off topic people, there will always be the pro/anti camp for legalisation, but the story was about a court case and a families dispair of not being able to give their lad a funeral. Maybe as a sign of respect to the family that people stop the mud slinging and one upmanship on their academic attainments and lock this thread from further postings. Just a thought.

Fair comment, I only responded as the pro-lot tried to use the story as a vehicle. I agree I should have shown more respect, and I apologise to anyone following this story on a personal level.

Aimed at both side LSC (I hold my hands up as well in some cases), happens too much on the comments of news items, there is a readers forum though, which seems to be under used. Maybe we should start debating topics in there?

theturpster wrote:
Aimed at both side LSC (I hold my hands up as well in some cases), happens too much on the comments of news items, there is a readers forum though, which seems to be under used. Maybe we should start debating topics in there?

No offence taken. Sadly I doubt they would take part in a debate elsewhere on the site. My belief is they are part of a national movement who scan local newspapers for cannabis stories and post their pre-written statements, and that gets my goat a bit.
I'm amazed I got a reaction at all, but they never did answer my points.

You will probably find the same statements by the same people on news sites all over the country.

They don't actually care about anything but the right to get stoned legally.

And when you are stoned, you don't care about anything anyway.

I was going to say I cant believe people are using this terrible murder to promote the legalisation of cannabis, but then having read through the comments its entirely obvious how stupid people are.

People also need to stop using the inconsistencies in the law as justification for making something legal. Just because alcohol is bad for people and society yet is legal does not mean cannabis or any other illegal drug you may care to mention should be made legal. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

If you buy something that is supplied by people who use crime including threats of and actual violence (including murder) to protect their position then you do have their crimes on your hands too. By buying something knowing what happens to get it into your hands then you are saying the suffering of others is less important than your own personal needs and wants. This is regardless of if you believe the product is harmless and should be legal.

Next time those of you who take cannabis are chilling out try to imagine the pain and suffering people like Murray Thompson went through so that you can have your fun.

garston tony wrote:
I was going to say I cant believe people are using this terrible murder to promote the legalisation of cannabis, but then having read through the comments its entirely obvious how stupid people are.

People also need to stop using the inconsistencies in the law as justification for making something legal. Just because alcohol is bad for people and society yet is legal does not mean cannabis or any other illegal drug you may care to mention should be made legal. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

If you buy something that is supplied by people who use crime including threats of and actual violence (including murder) to protect their position then you do have their crimes on your hands too. By buying something knowing what happens to get it into your hands then you are saying the suffering of others is less important than your own personal needs and wants. This is regardless of if you believe the product is harmless and should be legal.

Next time those of you who take cannabis are chilling out try to imagine the pain and suffering people like Murray Thompson went through so that you can have your fun.

Quite right Tony. - Wanting to legalise something because it might not be as bad as other bad stuff is just silly!

What a load of sanctimonious drivel from the prohibition lobby. Face it you guys stuck in your comfy little ruts, the only way forward is the de-crimilisation of all drugs. This would deliver 2 immediate benefits to society:
1/ Scumbag dealers would be out of business overnight.
2/ Quality control would ensure that e.g. heroin would not be adulterated with rat poison or harpic, as is the way of the dealers now.
Job done, choice is yours.
BTW, pure heroin does not kill.
Personally I can't see this happening because of all the hot air from the sactimonious prohibition lobby. But, hey, I didn't think I'd witness the collapse of capitalism in my lifetime but here we are going through the death throes.

No, scumbag dealers would not be out of business overnight, they would just have to target the market that it would still be illegal to sell to, like children and vulnerable adults.
These people are not known for their morals.
There is a whole illegal network in place of smuggling, storage, distribution and sales. These are people very aware that what they are currently doing is costing lives and causing misery, WORLDWIDE. But they don't care, because it is relatively easy money.

But you think these people will simply give up the BMW and get a job in a MacDonalds, right?

Wrong.

If you think capitalism is dead you're in for a shock! If thats the kind of conclusions you reach no wonder you believe decrimilisation of illegal drugs is a good thing.

Its highly debatable that legalising all drugs would get rid of the criminal element (from source to - and including - the end user) or rid the market of poor quality product but what isnt debatable is that drugs do damage to people and affects those around them and that doesnt change if the product is legal or not.

If thinking something that is extremely un healthy to people minds and bodies and un healthy to society in so many ways shouldnt be legal then i'll hold my hand up to being your definition of sanctimonious.

Oh, and BTW, pure (or purer) heroin kills quite frequently. Users are so used to the stuff that is cut that when they get purer goods they invariably overdose, and usually die.

LSC - spot on thoughout this thread.