Matty Whichelow cancels Watford contract

Watford Observer: Picture: Action Images Picture: Action Images

Matty Whichelow has left Watford after his contract was cancelled by mutual consent.

Whichelow made a superb impact during his debut season; scoring three goals in 21 appearances.

But the 21-year-old made just three more outings for the club last season under Sean Dyche and has not featured for the first team under Gianfranco Zola.

Whichelow made three appearances on loan at Exeter City during the 2011/12 campaign and also featured for Wycombe Wanderers four times last season.

The attacker, who can play in a number of positions, made two starts and two substitute appearances on loan at Acrrington Stanley earlier this season.

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11:07am Mon 4 Feb 13

T.O says...

Good!!!
Good!!! T.O

11:13am Mon 4 Feb 13

stevyweavy says...

How he has fallen. At one stage he was so promising and most of the fans were clammering for him to get more game time. Not anymore!
How he has fallen. At one stage he was so promising and most of the fans were clammering for him to get more game time. Not anymore! stevyweavy

11:13am Mon 4 Feb 13

Banjo says...

T.O wrote:
Good!!!
let us know if you ever lose your job so we can get a quick comment in.
[quote][p][bold]T.O[/bold] wrote: Good!!![/p][/quote]let us know if you ever lose your job so we can get a quick comment in. Banjo

11:20am Mon 4 Feb 13

McHornet says...

Another young player that had the initial adrenaline fuelled performances and looked a good player, probably thought he had made it and stopped working as hard as he should have.

He'll make himself a decent career in football, but one that will need to go down a few levels to come back again.

Good luck Matty!
Another young player that had the initial adrenaline fuelled performances and looked a good player, probably thought he had made it and stopped working as hard as he should have. He'll make himself a decent career in football, but one that will need to go down a few levels to come back again. Good luck Matty! McHornet

11:23am Mon 4 Feb 13

Hampshire hornet says...

Maybe mr Dyche had a point about our young players too much too soon.. Mr Murray take note
Maybe mr Dyche had a point about our young players too much too soon.. Mr Murray take note Hampshire hornet

11:24am Mon 4 Feb 13

Eastsussexhornet says...

I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly. Eastsussexhornet

11:28am Mon 4 Feb 13

jasonwatford says...

Shame really but we have moved levels and he hasnt made it anywhere else on loan. i guess he will drift into non league and have to get a real job !!!
Shame really but we have moved levels and he hasnt made it anywhere else on loan. i guess he will drift into non league and have to get a real job !!! jasonwatford

11:33am Mon 4 Feb 13

jasonwatford says...

Eastsussexhornet - You cant pay wages to someone who has nothing to offer you. If you ran a business and an employee turned up daily but offered you nothing and if you lent him out to other business and they sent him back because he offered them nothing what would you do ?
Eastsussexhornet - You cant pay wages to someone who has nothing to offer you. If you ran a business and an employee turned up daily but offered you nothing and if you lent him out to other business and they sent him back because he offered them nothing what would you do ? jasonwatford

11:40am Mon 4 Feb 13

holtonian says...

Wish Matty the best of luck. Be nice to see him make it at another club down the line. Sometimes a fresh start can help a player whos been in the backroom.
Wish Matty the best of luck. Be nice to see him make it at another club down the line. Sometimes a fresh start can help a player whos been in the backroom. holtonian

11:40am Mon 4 Feb 13

tonyevans22 says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you. tonyevans22

11:45am Mon 4 Feb 13

Boxhorn says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Bit OTT?
It was the two previous managers that sent him out on loan and by all accounts Matty didn't exactly set the world alight in the lower leagues.
Lets assume that 'mutal consent' is what it says and perhaps a change of club will help him reignite his career.
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Bit OTT? It was the two previous managers that sent him out on loan and by all accounts Matty didn't exactly set the world alight in the lower leagues. Lets assume that 'mutal consent' is what it says and perhaps a change of club will help him reignite his career. Boxhorn

11:46am Mon 4 Feb 13

Tynedale Hornet says...

What a shame he lost his way. Looked like he had a really bright future ahead of him. Hope he rolls his sleeves up and does everything he can to forge a career in the game.
All the best Matty.
What a shame he lost his way. Looked like he had a really bright future ahead of him. Hope he rolls his sleeves up and does everything he can to forge a career in the game. All the best Matty. Tynedale Hornet

12:06pm Mon 4 Feb 13

exeterhornet says...

Totally underwhelmed by his performances at Exeter City but I felt they played him too deep. Difference with Murray is he has just signed a long contract and can now sit back and light the old cigar. The attitude and/or lack of self discipline or ambition with these guys baffles me. Good luck Matty - get your head down son and come back a better player.
Totally underwhelmed by his performances at Exeter City but I felt they played him too deep. Difference with Murray is he has just signed a long contract and can now sit back and light the old cigar. The attitude and/or lack of self discipline or ambition with these guys baffles me. Good luck Matty - get your head down son and come back a better player. exeterhornet

12:09pm Mon 4 Feb 13

cliff46 says...

Sorry it didn't work out for the lad but if he can't get a regular place in a team like Accrington there wasn't much hope that he could make it in the championship.
Hope he manages to find a career at a lower level., perhaps forest green would like yet another youngster from watford.
Sorry it didn't work out for the lad but if he can't get a regular place in a team like Accrington there wasn't much hope that he could make it in the championship. Hope he manages to find a career at a lower level., perhaps forest green would like yet another youngster from watford. cliff46

12:18pm Mon 4 Feb 13

akureyri says...

Cardiff City or Forest Green Rovers make your choice.
Cardiff City or Forest Green Rovers make your choice. akureyri

12:21pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Harry's Bar says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory. Harry's Bar

12:23pm Mon 4 Feb 13

gloryhornet4 says...

Banjo wrote:
T.O wrote:
Good!!!
let us know if you ever lose your job so we can get a quick comment in.
Absolutely. Insensitive and tactless.
[quote][p][bold]Banjo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]T.O[/bold] wrote: Good!!![/p][/quote]let us know if you ever lose your job so we can get a quick comment in.[/p][/quote]Absolutely. Insensitive and tactless. gloryhornet4

12:28pm Mon 4 Feb 13

gloryhornet4 says...

Boxhorn wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Bit OTT?
It was the two previous managers that sent him out on loan and by all accounts Matty didn't exactly set the world alight in the lower leagues.
Lets assume that 'mutal consent' is what it says and perhaps a change of club will help him reignite his career.
Mutual consent I guess just means WFC have paid up his contract so he is eligible to sign for another club outside the transfer window.
[quote][p][bold]Boxhorn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Bit OTT? It was the two previous managers that sent him out on loan and by all accounts Matty didn't exactly set the world alight in the lower leagues. Lets assume that 'mutal consent' is what it says and perhaps a change of club will help him reignite his career.[/p][/quote]Mutual consent I guess just means WFC have paid up his contract so he is eligible to sign for another club outside the transfer window. gloryhornet4

12:36pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Guy Bov says...

Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy? Guy Bov

1:03pm Mon 4 Feb 13

lutondown says...

Harry's Bar wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.
They do Harry!
[quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.[/p][/quote]They do Harry! lutondown

1:05pm Mon 4 Feb 13

north carolina horn says...

Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
I don't think so Guy Bov, I think it's more a case of lack of genuine progress on the individual players behalf, a lot can be forgiven when the boys are around 18 to 19 years old when they progress into Men's football, but when they still show that they have not developed after a season or two, then it's time to call a halt to their career with the club and move on.
I recall GT saying a while ago that he could watch David Johnson, a young right winger, all day long admiring his pace and skills but at the end of the day, David did not progress fully into Men's standard, Worrell Sterling is another example, great skills and just could not take the physical demands.
[quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]I don't think so Guy Bov, I think it's more a case of lack of genuine progress on the individual players behalf, a lot can be forgiven when the boys are around 18 to 19 years old when they progress into Men's football, but when they still show that they have not developed after a season or two, then it's time to call a halt to their career with the club and move on. I recall GT saying a while ago that he could watch David Johnson, a young right winger, all day long admiring his pace and skills but at the end of the day, David did not progress fully into Men's standard, Worrell Sterling is another example, great skills and just could not take the physical demands. north carolina horn

1:10pm Mon 4 Feb 13

lutondown says...

Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
I think there's a certain section with in our fan base that assume we have this wonderful production line from our academy, we do we were turning them out in the main for Lower league and non league clubs. Also that we are the premier family club, right I always see an awful lot of empty seats in the family stand. And then there's this mythical Watford way, that to me is inherent snobbery.
I hope when the town wakes up to the football played at the Vic that we attract some people from the estates.
Sorry if that offends the prawnies .....actually no I'm not
[quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]I think there's a certain section with in our fan base that assume we have this wonderful production line from our academy, we do we were turning them out in the main for Lower league and non league clubs. Also that we are the premier family club, right I always see an awful lot of empty seats in the family stand. And then there's this mythical Watford way, that to me is inherent snobbery. I hope when the town wakes up to the football played at the Vic that we attract some people from the estates. Sorry if that offends the prawnies .....actually no I'm not lutondown

1:17pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Guy Bov says...

north carolina horn wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
I don't think so Guy Bov, I think it's more a case of lack of genuine progress on the individual players behalf, a lot can be forgiven when the boys are around 18 to 19 years old when they progress into Men's football, but when they still show that they have not developed after a season or two, then it's time to call a halt to their career with the club and move on.
I recall GT saying a while ago that he could watch David Johnson, a young right winger, all day long admiring his pace and skills but at the end of the day, David did not progress fully into Men's standard, Worrell Sterling is another example, great skills and just could not take the physical demands.
Remember well too Rod Thomas ripping it up at schoolboy level
[quote][p][bold]north carolina horn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]I don't think so Guy Bov, I think it's more a case of lack of genuine progress on the individual players behalf, a lot can be forgiven when the boys are around 18 to 19 years old when they progress into Men's football, but when they still show that they have not developed after a season or two, then it's time to call a halt to their career with the club and move on. I recall GT saying a while ago that he could watch David Johnson, a young right winger, all day long admiring his pace and skills but at the end of the day, David did not progress fully into Men's standard, Worrell Sterling is another example, great skills and just could not take the physical demands.[/p][/quote]Remember well too Rod Thomas ripping it up at schoolboy level Guy Bov

1:30pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Harry's Bar says...

north carolina horn wrote:
Guy Bov wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
I don't think so Guy Bov, I think it's more a case of lack of genuine progress on the individual players behalf, a lot can be forgiven when the boys are around 18 to 19 years old when they progress into Men's football, but when they still show that they have not developed after a season or two, then it's time to call a halt to their career with the club and move on. I recall GT saying a while ago that he could watch David Johnson, a young right winger, all day long admiring his pace and skills but at the end of the day, David did not progress fully into Men's standard, Worrell Sterling is another example, great skills and just could not take the physical demands.
What happened to David Johnson? Wasn't he dubbed the next John Barnes. Pace and skill but something must have been missing. Wouldn't listen to instructions didn't the manager intimate.
[quote][p][bold]north carolina horn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]I don't think so Guy Bov, I think it's more a case of lack of genuine progress on the individual players behalf, a lot can be forgiven when the boys are around 18 to 19 years old when they progress into Men's football, but when they still show that they have not developed after a season or two, then it's time to call a halt to their career with the club and move on. I recall GT saying a while ago that he could watch David Johnson, a young right winger, all day long admiring his pace and skills but at the end of the day, David did not progress fully into Men's standard, Worrell Sterling is another example, great skills and just could not take the physical demands.[/p][/quote]What happened to David Johnson? Wasn't he dubbed the next John Barnes. Pace and skill but something must have been missing. Wouldn't listen to instructions didn't the manager intimate. Harry's Bar

1:42pm Mon 4 Feb 13

mooneysmagic says...

tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I think it is unfair to bracket Jenkins alongside Whichelow and Murray. Jenkins isn't blessed with the ability of the other two but always tried his hardest and had injury problems which restricted his progress. Murray and Whichelow unfortunately both have attitude problems and unless they radically change their conduct will regret wasting their careers.
[quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I think it is unfair to bracket Jenkins alongside Whichelow and Murray. Jenkins isn't blessed with the ability of the other two but always tried his hardest and had injury problems which restricted his progress. Murray and Whichelow unfortunately both have attitude problems and unless they radically change their conduct will regret wasting their careers. mooneysmagic

2:03pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Colin West's mullet says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
I don't think that's the reason.

At a guess, he stopped putting in the effort because he thought he'd 'arrived' and stopped developing.

How else do you explain someone so promising a couple of years ago not even making an impact at Accy Stanley?
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]I don't think that's the reason. At a guess, he stopped putting in the effort because he thought he'd 'arrived' and stopped developing. How else do you explain someone so promising a couple of years ago not even making an impact at Accy Stanley? Colin West's mullet

2:09pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Guy Bov says...

mooneysmagic wrote:
tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I think it is unfair to bracket Jenkins alongside Whichelow and Murray. Jenkins isn't blessed with the ability of the other two but always tried his hardest and had injury problems which restricted his progress. Murray and Whichelow unfortunately both have attitude problems and unless they radically change their conduct will regret wasting their careers.
Ideally would like to see Murray go out on loan with Dyche at Burnley as he needs a good proverbial kick up the backside but seems unlikely he would be allowed to go out to one of our potential promotion rivals. As for Jenkins can't see him getting a sniff of the first team now the strength and quality of our squad has increased but do think he can do a job for a league 1 side.
[quote][p][bold]mooneysmagic[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I think it is unfair to bracket Jenkins alongside Whichelow and Murray. Jenkins isn't blessed with the ability of the other two but always tried his hardest and had injury problems which restricted his progress. Murray and Whichelow unfortunately both have attitude problems and unless they radically change their conduct will regret wasting their careers.[/p][/quote]Ideally would like to see Murray go out on loan with Dyche at Burnley as he needs a good proverbial kick up the backside but seems unlikely he would be allowed to go out to one of our potential promotion rivals. As for Jenkins can't see him getting a sniff of the first team now the strength and quality of our squad has increased but do think he can do a job for a league 1 side. Guy Bov

2:47pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Eastsussexhornet says...

tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.
[quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say. Eastsussexhornet

2:51pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Eastsussexhornet says...

jasonwatford wrote:
Eastsussexhornet - You cant pay wages to someone who has nothing to offer you. If you ran a business and an employee turned up daily but offered you nothing and if you lent him out to other business and they sent him back because he offered them nothing what would you do ?
Totally agree. I own 5 companies so I know what you mean about business, rest assured! I wasn't complaining that we were kicking him OUT, just the fact that we were having a go at him.
[quote][p][bold]jasonwatford[/bold] wrote: Eastsussexhornet - You cant pay wages to someone who has nothing to offer you. If you ran a business and an employee turned up daily but offered you nothing and if you lent him out to other business and they sent him back because he offered them nothing what would you do ?[/p][/quote]Totally agree. I own 5 companies so I know what you mean about business, rest assured! I wasn't complaining that we were kicking him OUT, just the fact that we were having a go at him. Eastsussexhornet

2:53pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Eastsussexhornet says...

Harry's Bar wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.
Errrrrrr, right, ok. I haven't the feintest clue what you are on about.
[quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.[/p][/quote]Errrrrrr, right, ok. I haven't the feintest clue what you are on about. Eastsussexhornet

2:54pm Mon 4 Feb 13

JohnnyHornet says...

Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.
[quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB. JohnnyHornet

3:00pm Mon 4 Feb 13

SAHornet says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.
Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.[/p][/quote]Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters? SAHornet

3:24pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Eastsussexhornet says...

SAHornet wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.
Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?
Not back tracking at all. The problem is that a lot of people on here don't read the posts carefully enough or the point being made is too subtle for them. Not one of my orinal posts I would retract. It seems that I post and then have to spend the rest of the day explaining it every which way.
[quote][p][bold]SAHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.[/p][/quote]Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?[/p][/quote]Not back tracking at all. The problem is that a lot of people on here don't read the posts carefully enough or the point being made is too subtle for them. Not one of my orinal posts I would retract. It seems that I post and then have to spend the rest of the day explaining it every which way. Eastsussexhornet

3:24pm Mon 4 Feb 13

lutondown says...

SAHornet wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.
Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?
Yep have a view, don't matter who agrees or not, having an opinion does.
[quote][p][bold]SAHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.[/p][/quote]Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?[/p][/quote]Yep have a view, don't matter who agrees or not, having an opinion does. lutondown

3:43pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Chris the Vic says...

You can never tell.

Some of these youngsters may yet make it and come back to haunt us others will never make it.

But if they aren't making it happen here the sooner they move on the better.

Murray, Jonjo O'T both threatened to be really good but for similar reasons failed to progress and this time next year if not before Sean will move on.
They have great opportunities at WFC but fail to realise at their early stage that it is a means to an end not an end in itself.
You can never tell. Some of these youngsters may yet make it and come back to haunt us others will never make it. But if they aren't making it happen here the sooner they move on the better. Murray, Jonjo O'T both threatened to be really good but for similar reasons failed to progress and this time next year if not before Sean will move on. They have great opportunities at WFC but fail to realise at their early stage that it is a means to an end not an end in itself. Chris the Vic

4:31pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Guy Bov says...

JohnnyHornet wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.
I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level.
I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.
[quote][p][bold]JohnnyHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.[/p][/quote]I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level. I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen. Guy Bov

5:00pm Mon 4 Feb 13

lutondown says...

Guy Bov wrote:
JohnnyHornet wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.
I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level.
I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.
The best youth policy at this club was Tom Walleys. Look at his production line. Great coach
[quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JohnnyHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.[/p][/quote]I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level. I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.[/p][/quote]The best youth policy at this club was Tom Walleys. Look at his production line. Great coach lutondown

5:06pm Mon 4 Feb 13

cannons tours says...

Such a shame he looked such a good prospect like a lot of youngsters they dont have anyone that gives them a good run in the team to build up confidence Matty dont give up and I hope you come good.
Such a shame he looked such a good prospect like a lot of youngsters they dont have anyone that gives them a good run in the team to build up confidence Matty dont give up and I hope you come good. cannons tours

5:09pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Guy Bov says...

lutondown wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
JohnnyHornet wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.
I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level.
I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.
The best youth policy at this club was Tom Walleys. Look at his production line. Great coach
Agreed, best by a mile
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JohnnyHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.[/p][/quote]I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level. I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.[/p][/quote]The best youth policy at this club was Tom Walleys. Look at his production line. Great coach[/p][/quote]Agreed, best by a mile Guy Bov

5:24pm Mon 4 Feb 13

smalon says...

lutondown wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
I think there's a certain section with in our fan base that assume we have this wonderful production line from our academy, we do we were turning them out in the main for Lower league and non league clubs. Also that we are the premier family club, right I always see an awful lot of empty seats in the family stand. And then there's this mythical Watford way, that to me is inherent snobbery.
I hope when the town wakes up to the football played at the Vic that we attract some people from the estates.
Sorry if that offends the prawnies .....actually no I'm not
I agree with you that we need more supporters from the local estates, people who will take pride in their local team.
Unfortunately I am surrounded by QPHa fans here in S. Oxhey as everyone seems to think they are a cockney.
Three letters too long in my opinion.
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]I think there's a certain section with in our fan base that assume we have this wonderful production line from our academy, we do we were turning them out in the main for Lower league and non league clubs. Also that we are the premier family club, right I always see an awful lot of empty seats in the family stand. And then there's this mythical Watford way, that to me is inherent snobbery. I hope when the town wakes up to the football played at the Vic that we attract some people from the estates. Sorry if that offends the prawnies .....actually no I'm not[/p][/quote]I agree with you that we need more supporters from the local estates, people who will take pride in their local team. Unfortunately I am surrounded by QPHa fans here in S. Oxhey as everyone seems to think they are a cockney. Three letters too long in my opinion. smalon

5:44pm Mon 4 Feb 13

lutondown says...

smalon wrote:
lutondown wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
I think there's a certain section with in our fan base that assume we have this wonderful production line from our academy, we do we were turning them out in the main for Lower league and non league clubs. Also that we are the premier family club, right I always see an awful lot of empty seats in the family stand. And then there's this mythical Watford way, that to me is inherent snobbery.
I hope when the town wakes up to the football played at the Vic that we attract some people from the estates.
Sorry if that offends the prawnies .....actually no I'm not
I agree with you that we need more supporters from the local estates, people who will take pride in their local team.
Unfortunately I am surrounded by QPHa fans here in S. Oxhey as everyone seems to think they are a cockney.
Three letters too long in my opinion.
Lol and Cockneys were east London not Paddington and area!
[quote][p][bold]smalon[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]I think there's a certain section with in our fan base that assume we have this wonderful production line from our academy, we do we were turning them out in the main for Lower league and non league clubs. Also that we are the premier family club, right I always see an awful lot of empty seats in the family stand. And then there's this mythical Watford way, that to me is inherent snobbery. I hope when the town wakes up to the football played at the Vic that we attract some people from the estates. Sorry if that offends the prawnies .....actually no I'm not[/p][/quote]I agree with you that we need more supporters from the local estates, people who will take pride in their local team. Unfortunately I am surrounded by QPHa fans here in S. Oxhey as everyone seems to think they are a cockney. Three letters too long in my opinion.[/p][/quote]Lol and Cockneys were east London not Paddington and area! lutondown

8:31pm Mon 4 Feb 13

DuffmanWFC says...

Shame really as he bursted onto the scene with some good performances but he has struggled the last 18 months to make any sort of impact!
A real full from grace for Whichelow I just hope Sean Murray isn't going the same way as he has been poor in virtually every game this season!
Shame really as he bursted onto the scene with some good performances but he has struggled the last 18 months to make any sort of impact! A real full from grace for Whichelow I just hope Sean Murray isn't going the same way as he has been poor in virtually every game this season! DuffmanWFC

9:22pm Mon 4 Feb 13

Stoney77 says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
Shame really as he bursted onto the scene with some good performances but he has struggled the last 18 months to make any sort of impact!
A real full from grace for Whichelow I just hope Sean Murray isn't going the same way as he has been poor in virtually every game this season!
I think referring to it as a 'fall from grace' is a bit O.T.T.
He showed some promise in a handful of games for one of the smallest squads in the league at the time, which arguably relied too heavily on youngsters. He failed to follow up on that promise, most probably because like those fellow academy products before and after him (Massey, Bennett, Oshodi, Mingoia, Jenkins, Bryan, Diagoraga, Forde, Gibson, Henderson, Hand, O'Toole etc etc) he was not quite good enough, and league 1 / lower championship level at best. Not a scathing attack on our academy, just a point to underline that about 75% of academy products who break into the 1st team have not been good enough to play at championship level or above.
Our new owners have certainly highlighted the gap between such academy products and the players we need to have in order to get out of this division.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Shame really as he bursted onto the scene with some good performances but he has struggled the last 18 months to make any sort of impact! A real full from grace for Whichelow I just hope Sean Murray isn't going the same way as he has been poor in virtually every game this season![/p][/quote]I think referring to it as a 'fall from grace' is a bit O.T.T. He showed some promise in a handful of games for one of the smallest squads in the league at the time, which arguably relied too heavily on youngsters. He failed to follow up on that promise, most probably because like those fellow academy products before and after him (Massey, Bennett, Oshodi, Mingoia, Jenkins, Bryan, Diagoraga, Forde, Gibson, Henderson, Hand, O'Toole etc etc) he was not quite good enough, and league 1 / lower championship level at best. Not a scathing attack on our academy, just a point to underline that about 75% of academy products who break into the 1st team have not been good enough to play at championship level or above. Our new owners have certainly highlighted the gap between such academy products and the players we need to have in order to get out of this division. Stoney77

9:25pm Mon 4 Feb 13

lutondown says...

Stoney77 wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
Shame really as he bursted onto the scene with some good performances but he has struggled the last 18 months to make any sort of impact!
A real full from grace for Whichelow I just hope Sean Murray isn't going the same way as he has been poor in virtually every game this season!
I think referring to it as a 'fall from grace' is a bit O.T.T.
He showed some promise in a handful of games for one of the smallest squads in the league at the time, which arguably relied too heavily on youngsters. He failed to follow up on that promise, most probably because like those fellow academy products before and after him (Massey, Bennett, Oshodi, Mingoia, Jenkins, Bryan, Diagoraga, Forde, Gibson, Henderson, Hand, O'Toole etc etc) he was not quite good enough, and league 1 / lower championship level at best. Not a scathing attack on our academy, just a point to underline that about 75% of academy products who break into the 1st team have not been good enough to play at championship level or above.
Our new owners have certainly highlighted the gap between such academy products and the players we need to have in order to get out of this division.
So it shows our so called excellent academy is really a tad fabled, sad but true. Not a patch on Tom Walleys finds
[quote][p][bold]Stoney77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Shame really as he bursted onto the scene with some good performances but he has struggled the last 18 months to make any sort of impact! A real full from grace for Whichelow I just hope Sean Murray isn't going the same way as he has been poor in virtually every game this season![/p][/quote]I think referring to it as a 'fall from grace' is a bit O.T.T. He showed some promise in a handful of games for one of the smallest squads in the league at the time, which arguably relied too heavily on youngsters. He failed to follow up on that promise, most probably because like those fellow academy products before and after him (Massey, Bennett, Oshodi, Mingoia, Jenkins, Bryan, Diagoraga, Forde, Gibson, Henderson, Hand, O'Toole etc etc) he was not quite good enough, and league 1 / lower championship level at best. Not a scathing attack on our academy, just a point to underline that about 75% of academy products who break into the 1st team have not been good enough to play at championship level or above. Our new owners have certainly highlighted the gap between such academy products and the players we need to have in order to get out of this division.[/p][/quote]So it shows our so called excellent academy is really a tad fabled, sad but true. Not a patch on Tom Walleys finds lutondown

6:30am Tue 5 Feb 13

Bringe says...

I can't see us needing wingers or full-backs ever again and hopefully the academy has already disposed of the whole 4-4-2 mantra. Wingback really is a specialist position which suits few british coached players and the bar has been raised so I dare say we will lose a couple more of our youngsters for what is basically no fault of their own. It's also not fair to compare them with lads that broke through at a considerably lower level, nor Tom Whalley's finds for that matter as the game has changed that much.
I can't see us needing wingers or full-backs ever again and hopefully the academy has already disposed of the whole 4-4-2 mantra. Wingback really is a specialist position which suits few british coached players and the bar has been raised so I dare say we will lose a couple more of our youngsters for what is basically no fault of their own. It's also not fair to compare them with lads that broke through at a considerably lower level, nor Tom Whalley's finds for that matter as the game has changed that much. Bringe

7:07am Tue 5 Feb 13

lutondown says...

Bringe wrote:
I can't see us needing wingers or full-backs ever again and hopefully the academy has already disposed of the whole 4-4-2 mantra. Wingback really is a specialist position which suits few british coached players and the bar has been raised so I dare say we will lose a couple more of our youngsters for what is basically no fault of their own. It's also not fair to compare them with lads that broke through at a considerably lower level, nor Tom Whalley's finds for that matter as the game has changed that much.
I'm comparing the success rate. This as prior to the Pozzos.
Our academy produced very few gems, Tom Walley produced plenty. That's the comparison. And as I remember some of these lads Jackett, Callaghan, Gibbs to name a few, had success playing at the top.
[quote][p][bold]Bringe[/bold] wrote: I can't see us needing wingers or full-backs ever again and hopefully the academy has already disposed of the whole 4-4-2 mantra. Wingback really is a specialist position which suits few british coached players and the bar has been raised so I dare say we will lose a couple more of our youngsters for what is basically no fault of their own. It's also not fair to compare them with lads that broke through at a considerably lower level, nor Tom Whalley's finds for that matter as the game has changed that much.[/p][/quote]I'm comparing the success rate. This as prior to the Pozzos. Our academy produced very few gems, Tom Walley produced plenty. That's the comparison. And as I remember some of these lads Jackett, Callaghan, Gibbs to name a few, had success playing at the top. lutondown

9:47am Tue 5 Feb 13

northofwatfordpete says...

Ryan Giggs had a very quiet season one year after making a big impact in the Manchester Utd first team. Players often seem to need a breather during their development before they achieve consistency. I hope that this is the case with Murray because he looked such a class act during the second half of last season.
You have to remember that Murray was playing for the under 18s for the most part of last season and only really broke into the team after Xmas - barely a year ago. I still hope to see Conor Smith, Bond, Britt A and Murray and others featuring in future Watford squads.
Ryan Giggs had a very quiet season one year after making a big impact in the Manchester Utd first team. Players often seem to need a breather during their development before they achieve consistency. I hope that this is the case with Murray because he looked such a class act during the second half of last season. You have to remember that Murray was playing for the under 18s for the most part of last season and only really broke into the team after Xmas - barely a year ago. I still hope to see Conor Smith, Bond, Britt A and Murray and others featuring in future Watford squads. northofwatfordpete

11:02am Tue 5 Feb 13

Harry's Bar says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
Harry's Bar wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.
Errrrrrr, right, ok. I haven't the feintest clue what you are on about.
Well, last week you were absolutely slating Zola, I mean crucifying him. With this post a more caring, protective, sensitive attitude appears to prevail. (Sorry if it wasn't you that made the monkey reference by the way, I thought it was.)
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.[/p][/quote]Errrrrrr, right, ok. I haven't the feintest clue what you are on about.[/p][/quote]Well, last week you were absolutely slating Zola, I mean crucifying him. With this post a more caring, protective, sensitive attitude appears to prevail. (Sorry if it wasn't you that made the monkey reference by the way, I thought it was.) Harry's Bar

11:48am Tue 5 Feb 13

Kildare Hornet says...

i agree with northofwatfordpete re Sean Murray....the lad is only 19, hasn't had a huge amount of game-time, made a much bigger impact than anyone would have expected in the latter part of last season and shouldn't have the crowd on his back every time he makes a mistake....at Bristol City, that was the case.....he will come good as he has the ability to do so
i agree with northofwatfordpete re Sean Murray....the lad is only 19, hasn't had a huge amount of game-time, made a much bigger impact than anyone would have expected in the latter part of last season and shouldn't have the crowd on his back every time he makes a mistake....at Bristol City, that was the case.....he will come good as he has the ability to do so Kildare Hornet

3:57pm Wed 6 Feb 13

JohnnyHornet says...

Guy Bov wrote:
lutondown wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
JohnnyHornet wrote:
Guy Bov wrote:
Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?
The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.
I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level.
I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.
The best youth policy at this club was Tom Walleys. Look at his production line. Great coach
Agreed, best by a mile
Walley by far, but who was the bloke before Walley can't for the life of me remember his name.
[quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JohnnyHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Guy Bov[/bold] wrote: Does the lack of development of the likes of Whichelow, Bennett, Jenkins show we have issues with the coaching/youth development of our players once they graduate from the academy?[/p][/quote]The problem is they are top 1st division and bottom championship grade players, if that is where you want us to play our football in the next 5 years by all means keep them, I was a sceptic when SD got sacked and GFZ took over , but the Pozzo's and GFZ have proven that we " Little " Watford can achieve better things with the right tools. onwards and upwards, COYGB.[/p][/quote]I was throwing out to debate the question of is it down to poor coaching why the likes of Whichelow have fallen by the wayside or have our recent recruits just not being of sufficiently good quality to hold down a place at championship level. I for one look forward to a time when we can hold our own comfortably in the premiership, whether we can do this by our academy producing players of a good enough standard or we rely on incoming players from the Pozzo scouting network remains to be seen.[/p][/quote]The best youth policy at this club was Tom Walleys. Look at his production line. Great coach[/p][/quote]Agreed, best by a mile[/p][/quote]Walley by far, but who was the bloke before Walley can't for the life of me remember his name. JohnnyHornet

5:16pm Wed 6 Feb 13

gloryhornet4 says...

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
SAHornet wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
tonyevans22 wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.
I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.
Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?
Not back tracking at all. The problem is that a lot of people on here don't read the posts carefully enough or the point being made is too subtle for them. Not one of my orinal posts I would retract. It seems that I post and then have to spend the rest of the day explaining it every which way.
and your point is?
[quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SAHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tonyevans22[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]Not at all,there are reasons for his release,one is that he is not good enough and at the age of 21 he should of kicked on and progressed,instead he has somewhat gone backwards.Also his attitude has been questioned not only by this club.We do not need to carry players that will not make it.Others like Jenkins will soon follow.And Maybe this will also send out a message to other players like Murray who shone last season and has done naff all this season except through his toys out the pram as he did at home to Bolton..Work hard,kick on,have a positive attitude and you have a chance,or players will replace you.[/p][/quote]I do agree with you - with what we know now - but I just thought it was a bit out of order for others to slate him when, if we hadn't been taken over and we were languishing near the bottom of the table, we would rate him higher. Last season we were for much of the time League 1 side doing well in the Championship. This season.....well, I dare not say.[/p][/quote]Eastsussex - why do you always backtrack on your original comments when you come under pressure from other posters?[/p][/quote]Not back tracking at all. The problem is that a lot of people on here don't read the posts carefully enough or the point being made is too subtle for them. Not one of my orinal posts I would retract. It seems that I post and then have to spend the rest of the day explaining it every which way.[/p][/quote]and your point is? gloryhornet4

5:49pm Wed 6 Feb 13

Eastsussexhornet says...

Harry's Bar wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
Harry's Bar wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.
A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.
Errrrrrr, right, ok. I haven't the feintest clue what you are on about.
Well, last week you were absolutely slating Zola, I mean crucifying him. With this post a more caring, protective, sensitive attitude appears to prevail. (Sorry if it wasn't you that made the monkey reference by the way, I thought it was.)
This article has just appeared again. Don't know why. Anyway, only just seen this last comment.

Yes, I did rather slate GFZ. But that was on a particular issue I felt and still do feel strongly about - lets call it the Bristol incident, which I think we can try to gloss over now if you don't mind, especially as I suspect it won't happen again.

This is why I couldn't understand the connection between that and Whichelow, a completely different matter, apart from your realisation that I was actually quite a caring, sharing and all round nice person, which of course I am.
[quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harry's Bar[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Eastsussexhornet[/bold] wrote: I cannot belive this! Not only do empty barrels make more noise, they make more noise quicker as well. Poor bloke - I was one of those that really wanted him to play more and couldn't understand why he was being loaned out. Now I could, of course, because we have a class team, but to kick him like that just because our fortunes have suddenly changed having been taken over by a rich family is a bit disingenuous to put it mildly.[/p][/quote]A bit of a change in attitude. Last week you were suggesting a monkey could do Zola's job, now you are getting all teary eyed about this. You are quite entitled to your opinions, they just appear to be quite contradictory.[/p][/quote]Errrrrrr, right, ok. I haven't the feintest clue what you are on about.[/p][/quote]Well, last week you were absolutely slating Zola, I mean crucifying him. With this post a more caring, protective, sensitive attitude appears to prevail. (Sorry if it wasn't you that made the monkey reference by the way, I thought it was.)[/p][/quote]This article has just appeared again. Don't know why. Anyway, only just seen this last comment. Yes, I did rather slate GFZ. But that was on a particular issue I felt and still do feel strongly about - lets call it the Bristol incident, which I think we can try to gloss over now if you don't mind, especially as I suspect it won't happen again. This is why I couldn't understand the connection between that and Whichelow, a completely different matter, apart from your realisation that I was actually quite a caring, sharing and all round nice person, which of course I am. Eastsussexhornet

6:09pm Wed 6 Feb 13

StuWFC says...

The thing I like about the Pozzo's so far, is that they are getting rid of these players,if it means paying them off or if they actually find a suitor. Players like Iwelumo, Garner, Whichlow, Bennet, Walker, Izaac, James, Gilmartin even Loach (although I can't remember if he was pre or post Pozzo). Then their getting in these players who I never in a million years would have expected playing for us. Abdi, Casetti and Almunia are more than likely the three biggest name signings we've made in years. Tonnes of experience at the highest levels of the game. I'm still slightly in shock how well we're doing this season. COYH
The thing I like about the Pozzo's so far, is that they are getting rid of these players,if it means paying them off or if they actually find a suitor. Players like Iwelumo, Garner, Whichlow, Bennet, Walker, Izaac, James, Gilmartin even Loach (although I can't remember if he was pre or post Pozzo). Then their getting in these players who I never in a million years would have expected playing for us. Abdi, Casetti and Almunia are more than likely the three biggest name signings we've made in years. Tonnes of experience at the highest levels of the game. I'm still slightly in shock how well we're doing this season. COYH StuWFC

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