Wait for Football League decision continues (From Watford Observer)

Is this a ploy to see if we finish up in automatic promotion place or not? Seems very strange that the verdict has been delayed again, does not bode well to have these things hanging around, just fine us and go away!

Absolutely fed up of seeing that disgusting mans face. Have a bad feeling about the outcome on this. Surely if the verdict was 'not guilty' then it would have been announced but the delay must be down to the fact they have found the leech and the club guilty and are undecided on how to apply punishment.
Does anyone know what Bassini is up to now? Rumours were he'd left the country. Let's hope that isn't true and he is made to face the music. He won't care a jot if WFC are punished but let's hope all those idiots who lent him money are keeping a keen eye on his whereabouts and those of his lawyer Angelo Barrea. Surely someone has applied to get his legal status removed so he can't support Bassini and his alleged illegal activities again

Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table.
Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

luther67 wrote:
Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table.
Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

They can't take that into account it is not illegal and following their rules! Agree that we have been found guilty and probably right they are stalling on what fine to give, delaying may mean less chance of points deduction, but maybe if they see promotion the fine will be more??? Either way I wish they would hurry up, it is not good having this grinding on for anyone.

corbindallas wrote:

luther67 wrote:
Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table.
Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

They can't take that into account it is not illegal and following their rules! Agree that we have been found guilty and probably right they are stalling on what fine to give, delaying may mean less chance of points deduction, but maybe if they see promotion the fine will be more??? Either way I wish they would hurry up, it is not good having this grinding on for anyone.

The delay is inexcusable without a full explanation.

Unfortunately, corbindallas, the FA can take what it likes into consideration. It may not, but it can, ie is able to.

Is it possible to charge the FA with bringing football into disrepute?

At least they didn't use the red hard hat picture again. They might not be allowed to take the loan situation into account but what's to say they won't but not say anything. Its like when you don't like someone you manage at work because they are always back stabbing....you can't sack them for their personality but you'd take it into account secretly when they are late every day. I guess we should just expect a decision at the end of the season and if it comes earlier then its a bonus. Either way I'm quite concerned as to what the outcome will be.

WessexLad wrote:

corbindallas wrote:

luther67 wrote: Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table. Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

They can't take that into account it is not illegal and following their rules! Agree that we have been found guilty and probably right they are stalling on what fine to give, delaying may mean less chance of points deduction, but maybe if they see promotion the fine will be more??? Either way I wish they would hurry up, it is not good having this grinding on for anyone.

The delay is inexcusable without a full explanation. Unfortunately, corbindallas, the FA can take what it likes into consideration. It may not, but it can, ie is able to. Is it possible to charge the FA with bringing football into disrepute?

Why mention the FA, when this is a Football League decision?

Reginald Dwight wrote:
Absolutely fed up of seeing that disgusting mans face. Have a bad feeling about the outcome on this. Surely if the verdict was 'not guilty' then it would have been announced but the delay must be down to the fact they have found the leech and the club guilty and are undecided on how to apply punishment. Does anyone know what Bassini is up to now? Rumours were he'd left the country. Let's hope that isn't true and he is made to face the music. He won't care a jot if WFC are punished but let's hope all those idiots who lent him money are keeping a keen eye on his whereabouts and those of his lawyer Angelo Barrea. Surely someone has applied to get his legal status removed so he can't support Bassini and his alleged illegal activities again

If I was Bassini I would have left the country, they say the Spanish Costas are a nice spot at this time of year.
Unfortunately there will always be a bent brief willing to act on behalf of the Bassini's of this world.

This is a different situation as they have had to deal with before..not only club but also an individual....I do believe we will get a fine.

We, the corporate entity, are definitely guilty. I think that's taken as read. The question is how guilty and therefore what should the punishment be. It seems unfair on the present owners but, as I say, it is the company, not them that has to take the rap. They just happen to own it.

The "crime" though doesn't seem too serious. What WFC did was legal as long as FL permission had been sought and given - which it wasn't. To me at least, this doesn't warrant a points deduction but it does warrant a fine.

Then there is the moral issue if that is within their power to consider. Two points to this. Firstly, it all took place a long time ago. Surely, any punishment should have been handed out then, not now. A points deduction then wouldn't have affected us more than a points deduction should have done - merely having 10 points less at the end of the season that we would have done. Now, WFC could suffer disproportionately.

The other "moral" point is that the new owners may have not fully understood the status of this when they took over the club and even id they did, they have conducted themselves in an exempluary fashion in all their dealings. It is also clear to WFC and the FL that one man made this decision for his own benefit, not the club's and no one else was involved including anyone else who is still involved in the club.

I just hope that just discretion can be applied here.

Back from Hammerau wrote:

WessexLad wrote:

corbindallas wrote:

luther67 wrote: Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table. Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

They can't take that into account it is not illegal and following their rules! Agree that we have been found guilty and probably right they are stalling on what fine to give, delaying may mean less chance of points deduction, but maybe if they see promotion the fine will be more??? Either way I wish they would hurry up, it is not good having this grinding on for anyone.

The delay is inexcusable without a full explanation. Unfortunately, corbindallas, the FA can take what it likes into consideration. It may not, but it can, ie is able to. Is it possible to charge the FA with bringing football into disrepute?

Why mention the FA, when this is a Football League decision?

Whoops...but you've answered my question: the FA can charge the Football League!

A fine will be fine!

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
We, the corporate entity, are definitely guilty. I think that's taken as read. The question is how guilty and therefore what should the punishment be. It seems unfair on the present owners but, as I say, it is the company, not them that has to take the rap. They just happen to own it.

The "crime" though doesn't seem too serious. What WFC did was legal as long as FL permission had been sought and given - which it wasn't. To me at least, this doesn't warrant a points deduction but it does warrant a fine.

Then there is the moral issue if that is within their power to consider. Two points to this. Firstly, it all took place a long time ago. Surely, any punishment should have been handed out then, not now. A points deduction then wouldn't have affected us more than a points deduction should have done - merely having 10 points less at the end of the season that we would have done. Now, WFC could suffer disproportionately.

The other "moral" point is that the new owners may have not fully understood the status of this when they took over the club and even id they did, they have conducted themselves in an exempluary fashion in all their dealings. It is also clear to WFC and the FL that one man made this decision for his own benefit, not the club's and no one else was involved including anyone else who is still involved in the club.

I just hope that just discretion can be applied here.

Spot on EastSussex and well articulated. I do think it is ludicrous that it has taken so long to determine an outcome. A financial penalty for the club would seem likely, however a points deduction at this stage, so long after the 'event' would be unwarranted.

The BestTrip2011 wrote:

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
We, the corporate entity, are definitely guilty. I think that's taken as read. The question is how guilty and therefore what should the punishment be. It seems unfair on the present owners but, as I say, it is the company, not them that has to take the rap. They just happen to own it.

The "crime" though doesn't seem too serious. What WFC did was legal as long as FL permission had been sought and given - which it wasn't. To me at least, this doesn't warrant a points deduction but it does warrant a fine.

Then there is the moral issue if that is within their power to consider. Two points to this. Firstly, it all took place a long time ago. Surely, any punishment should have been handed out then, not now. A points deduction then wouldn't have affected us more than a points deduction should have done - merely having 10 points less at the end of the season that we would have done. Now, WFC could suffer disproportionately.

The other "moral" point is that the new owners may have not fully understood the status of this when they took over the club and even id they did, they have conducted themselves in an exempluary fashion in all their dealings. It is also clear to WFC and the FL that one man made this decision for his own benefit, not the club's and no one else was involved including anyone else who is still involved in the club.

I just hope that just discretion can be applied here.

Spot on EastSussex and well articulated. I do think it is ludicrous that it has taken so long to determine an outcome. A financial penalty for the club would seem likely, however a points deduction at this stage, so long after the 'event' would be unwarranted.

Yes, I think they have to take into consideration when it would have been reasonable for the facts to have been heard and a judgment made. Some guilt may therefore be attributable to the FL themselves.

There may even be another aspect to this albeit slightly hopeful on my part. From a PR perspective, I wonder how the FL would be viewed if they levied a points deduction. They know that WFC would appeal a points deduction which would then put into the bigger news arena.

A downside to this is that realising that a points deduction may be a difficult political move, the FL may levy a higher than normal fine...

The time taking to decide is in my view not good.. I think points will come off.. How many I'm not sure.. Min 5 - Max 30 & anything inbetween.. I'm not hoping for this but the football league doesn't like us for our loans.. They've be waiting for something to burst our bubble.. Here it is...

corbindallas wrote:
Is this a ploy to see if we finish up in automatic promotion place or not? Seems very strange that the verdict has been delayed again, does not bode well to have these things hanging around, just fine us and go away!

Spurs had 12 points deducted changed to 6 on appeal and then no points, as Blaady Lord Sugar had lawyers and cash to make a fuss. Swindon were denied their play-off promotion around the same time for their sins.

Hoping we get pet treatment like Spurs West Ham & QPR.

I don't think any punishment of WFC is "fine". The only person guilty is LB himself. If he has been fiddling the books and that is illegal, then take him to court. If not leave us alone. Any retrospective action (points or fine) against the club, affects the fans and that is not correct in any way shape or form. Withholding the verdict just shows what a gutless bunch they are.

.....and also refused to comment on whether the announcement would be made public.....

As they may not even make it public surely they can't be thinking about a points deduction....

I know very little about legal proceedings and all that jazz, but I do think that, if a points deduction were on the cards, we would have heard more about it in the media. The press don’t seem overly bothered about this story. I’ve only seen two stories on it outside the Watford observer, and I just think that for all other teams that have previously been handed out points deductions, regardless of which league they are in, there has always been press coverage preceeding the decision.

Boring... We , the club, that was Bassini are guilty... Lets stop worrying about something that may not happen (points deduction) this is worse than deadline day speculation...
3 points t

onight then

johnhornet wrote:
.....and also refused to comment on whether the announcement would be made public..... As they may not even make it public surely they can't be thinking about a points deduction....

My train of thought as well.

Poppet Bear wrote:
I don't think any punishment of WFC is "fine". The only person guilty is LB himself. If he has been fiddling the books and that is illegal, then take him to court. If not leave us alone. Any retrospective action (points or fine) against the club, affects the fans and that is not correct in any way shape or form. Withholding the verdict just shows what a gutless bunch they are.

Just a play on words, chill!
It will be fine.

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
We, the corporate entity, are definitely guilty. I think that's taken as read. The question is how guilty and therefore what should the punishment be. It seems unfair on the present owners but, as I say, it is the company, not them that has to take the rap. They just happen to own it.

The "crime" though doesn't seem too serious. What WFC did was legal as long as FL permission had been sought and given - which it wasn't. To me at least, this doesn't warrant a points deduction but it does warrant a fine.

Then there is the moral issue if that is within their power to consider. Two points to this. Firstly, it all took place a long time ago. Surely, any punishment should have been handed out then, not now. A points deduction then wouldn't have affected us more than a points deduction should have done - merely having 10 points less at the end of the season that we would have done. Now, WFC could suffer disproportionately.

The other "moral" point is that the new owners may have not fully understood the status of this when they took over the club and even id they did, they have conducted themselves in an exempluary fashion in all their dealings. It is also clear to WFC and the FL that one man made this decision for his own benefit, not the club's and no one else was involved including anyone else who is still involved in the club.

I just hope that just discretion can be applied here.

Well put! Pretty much covers my feelings on this. One other point to ,make: Remember that Bas is being charged as an individual, which, I believe, is unique in this type of FL case. As such, I would imagine that any verdict and penalty will be heavily scrutinised by the FL legal department. They will not want this part of the case rebounding on them due to dodgy legality. It must be, quite obviously, legal scrutiny that is taking the time. The longer this drags on, the more worried I become. However, gloomy forcasts of up to thirty points have to be over pessimistic. Remember, ten points for administration---sur
ely we won't be rated as badly as that! Looking at the Spurs cased---five or six points, maybe?

Poppet Bear wrote:
I don't think any punishment of WFC is "fine". The only person guilty is LB himself. If he has been fiddling the books and that is illegal, then take him to court. If not leave us alone. Any retrospective action (points or fine) against the club, affects the fans and that is not correct in any way shape or form. Withholding the verdict just shows what a gutless bunch they are.

Unfortunately the FL don't see it like that. We can't separate ourselves from Bassini's dealings, as unfair as that seems.
The FL will have no conscience about the punishment, their own sense of importance, fuelled by feelings of power and control is all that interests them. Delaying the verdict only heightens those senses.

Harry's Bar wrote:

Poppet Bear wrote:
I don't think any punishment of WFC is "fine". The only person guilty is LB himself. If he has been fiddling the books and that is illegal, then take him to court. If not leave us alone. Any retrospective action (points or fine) against the club, affects the fans and that is not correct in any way shape or form. Withholding the verdict just shows what a gutless bunch they are.

Unfortunately the FL don't see it like that. We can't separate ourselves from Bassini's dealings, as unfair as that seems.
The FL will have no conscience about the punishment, their own sense of importance, fuelled by feelings of power and control is all that interests them. Delaying the verdict only heightens those senses.

Yup, that pretty much has it nailed. As far as the FL are concerned, The owner of the club IS the club, and any misdeeds of the owner are misdeeds of the club. The one light in this tunnel is the seperate charging of Bas, which does indicate that someone at the FL realises that the guy is a shyster.

Harry's Bar wrote:

Poppet Bear wrote:
I don't think any punishment of WFC is "fine". The only person guilty is LB himself. If he has been fiddling the books and that is illegal, then take him to court. If not leave us alone. Any retrospective action (points or fine) against the club, affects the fans and that is not correct in any way shape or form. Withholding the verdict just shows what a gutless bunch they are.

Unfortunately the FL don't see it like that. We can't separate ourselves from Bassini's dealings, as unfair as that seems.
The FL will have no conscience about the punishment, their own sense of importance, fuelled by feelings of power and control is all that interests them. Delaying the verdict only heightens those senses.

Dealing with this and londomollari's comments above, I think the fact that they pursuing LB directly is telling and may be relevant. They clearly see this as the actions of one man acting in his own right, in his own interest and outside of the corporate body. That can only help our case.

The longer it drags on I am more, not less, hopeful that a points deduction will not be made.

The suggestions of a 30 point deduction are of course ridiculous.

As for your comments HB, although I share your keeness to inject some realism, I think you are being over pessimistic. I just hope you're wrong! Yes, as I say, it is the corporate entity that is in the firing line but this is not a clear case and the FL are not blameless. WFC would definitely appeal. They know that. Do they really want to make an issue of this to that extent?

The likes of Hull, Palace Leicester are Brighton are probably actively lobbying the Football League to give us a points deduction.

WessexLad wrote:

corbindallas wrote:

luther67 wrote:
Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table.
Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

They can't take that into account it is not illegal and following their rules! Agree that we have been found guilty and probably right they are stalling on what fine to give, delaying may mean less chance of points deduction, but maybe if they see promotion the fine will be more??? Either way I wish they would hurry up, it is not good having this grinding on for anyone.

The delay is inexcusable without a full explanation.

Unfortunately, corbindallas, the FA can take what it likes into consideration. It may not, but it can, ie is able to.

Is it possible to charge the FA with bringing football into disrepute?

Football league not FA and QPR were made to wait to end of season.
They have made their decision, it's just them being the old **** they are

WessexLad wrote:

corbindallas wrote:

luther67 wrote:
Surely they need to administer the punishment - if there is to be one - before they know where we will finish. Otherwise any points deduction will surely be influenced by where it leaves us in the table.
Have a bad feeling about this. And the longer the delay the more I feel all this moaning about our loans being unfair may influence the punishment.

They can't take that into account it is not illegal and following their rules! Agree that we have been found guilty and probably right they are stalling on what fine to give, delaying may mean less chance of points deduction, but maybe if they see promotion the fine will be more??? Either way I wish they would hurry up, it is not good having this grinding on for anyone.

The delay is inexcusable without a full explanation.

Unfortunately, corbindallas, the FA can take what it likes into consideration. It may not, but it can, ie is able to.

Is it possible to charge the FA with bringing football into disrepute?

Football league not FA and QPR were made to wait to end of season.
They have made their decision, it's just them being the old **** they are

Well yes, there may be an element of self preservation at work here.

On a slightly different note. I did a google search on Panos Thomas, or "Doc Pantyhose" as LD referred to him. At a glance do the photos that appear bear a slight resemblance to anyone else?

Very interesting article here:
http://www.academia.
edu/172825/Points_de
duction_as_a_sanctio
n_against_English_fo
otball_clubs_a_dysfu
nctional_approach

which includes a list of all the recent points deductions applied by club, division and reason. You need to scroll through it a bit to find it, but worth a look. Note that it doesn't cover the last couple of seasons...but interestingly only one 10 point deduction for "Financial Irregularities" for guess who?!

Harry's Bar wrote:
Well yes, there may be an element of self preservation at work here.

On a slightly different note. I did a google search on Panos Thomas, or "Doc Pantyhose" as LD referred to him. At a glance do the photos that appear bear a slight resemblance to anyone else?

Think he eloped with ilovbas, somewhere around Pompey area.

Well it's out of our hands, so I'm back onto the issue at hand..tonight's game.
Last note, we didn't expect promotion so if we do it's a bonus, their max pts deduction won't put us down, so worse comes to worse, we have another season in the champs. Though I want us to go up, it won't be the end of the world.
They can't stop our juggernaut, they can only slow it down a tad.

lutondown wrote:

Harry's Bar wrote: Well yes, there may be an element of self preservation at work here. On a slightly different note. I did a google search on Panos Thomas, or "Doc Pantyhose" as LD referred to him. At a glance do the photos that appear bear a slight resemblance to anyone else?

Think he eloped with ilovbas, somewhere around Pompey area.

LD, who is ilovbas? I am guessing it was the name of a "poster" around the time of the Bas stewardship.

Boosey wrote:

johnhornet wrote: .....and also refused to comment on whether the announcement would be made public..... As they may not even make it public surely they can't be thinking about a points deduction....

My train of thought as well.

I imagine that a fine would have to be recorded in the club's accounts when they're published.
A suspended punishment wouldn't have to be made public.
Any punishment imposed upon LB, rather than upon the club, wouldn't have to be made public.

Harry's Bar wrote:

lutondown wrote:

Harry's Bar wrote: Well yes, there may be an element of self preservation at work here. On a slightly different note. I did a google search on Panos Thomas, or "Doc Pantyhose" as LD referred to him. At a glance do the photos that appear bear a slight resemblance to anyone else?

Think he eloped with ilovbas, somewhere around Pompey area.

LD, who is ilovbas? I am guessing it was the name of a "poster" around the time of the Bas stewardship.

You missed a treat! Bible thumping nut job madly in love with Bas.
Also a great fan of Panos hence my pantyhose aside.
Do miss him though his rants at me only matched by my old mate Vialli!
It's so dull these days, what with ESHs pontifications and sly accusations, they said it as it was...total respect to my nut job foes! Lol
Tonight's a biggy, my hearts already a racing..lots of John smiths to settle the nerves!

Making news out of nothing..this has been reported to Death... Move on no verdict yet, stop speculating and get your bums down the Vic tonight to support the club, we need to show the Pozzos what they mean to us, only thing we need to worry about is a result tonight COYH

Loyal Supporter wrote:
Very interesting article here:
http://www.academia.

edu/172825/Points_de

duction_as_a_sanctio

n_against_English_fo

otball_clubs_a_dysfu

nctional_approach

which includes a list of all the recent points deductions applied by club, division and reason. You need to scroll through it a bit to find it, but worth a look. Note that it doesn't cover the last couple of seasons...but interestingly only one 10 point deduction for "Financial Irregularities" for guess who?!

I think this is more a case of an admin error in failing to gain FL permission at best, or worse case scenario deceit, more than financial irregularities, so in worst case scenario's 10 point or less deduction, I think a few thousand pound fine probably likely.

The question really has to be did the team gain any advantage or did Bassini's take out these "loans" for other reasons?

The loans themselves seem to be nothing more than a cash advancement secured on goods already provided so I would inclined to question the validity of the F.L. charges themselves. With no risk to any party this is a million miles away from that particular rule's designated purpose.

Of course he would deny it but I suggest that Bassini pocketed this cash as a precursor to sending us into admin and I can only thank God that the Pozzo family did not let this happen.

Surely a decision has to be made before the end of season because any points deduction would have an impact on the playoff positions.... or am I missing something

Does anyone know who actually sits on the disciplinary hearings,reps. from Palace or Hull ? now that would be bad news wouldn't it.

tommy gunn wrote:
Does anyone know who actually sits on the disciplinary hearings,reps. from Palace or Hull ? now that would be bad news wouldn't it.

If there were you would like to think that they would remove themselves from the process ... any gentleman would but then again I suppose this is football, not cricket and the prize at stake is huge.

tommy gunn wrote:
Does anyone know who actually sits on the disciplinary hearings,reps. from Palace or Hull ? now that would be bad news wouldn't it.

It would be very good news.
It would provide strong grounds for an appeal.

The Football League gave the Pozzo family the all clear to buy the club after these worries were brought up early on.

Any action by them now would surely allow the Pozzo's to take the League to the cleaners!.... Wouldn't it? - any lawyers in the house?

G_Whiz wrote:
The Football League gave the Pozzo family the all clear to buy the club after these worries were brought up early on. Any action by them now would surely allow the Pozzo's to take the League to the cleaners!.... Wouldn't it? - any lawyers in the house?

No. The FL said that the Pozzos were fit and proper owners of a club.
This case is about misconduct by the club under a previous owner.

Back from Hammerau wrote:

tommy gunn wrote:
Does anyone know who actually sits on the disciplinary hearings,reps. from Palace or Hull ? now that would be bad news wouldn't it.

It would be very good news.
It would provide strong grounds for an appeal.

Sorry, there is no appeal, the decision made is final. That sadly is fact