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Oliver Phillips reflects on the departure of Mark Ashton from Watford (From Watford Observer)
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Oliver Phillips reflects on the departure of Mark Ashton from Watford
12:10pm Monday 22nd December 2008
Logic dictates there must be more than one person with a good word to say about Mark Ashton’s reign as Watford’s chief executive, but I have yet to meet them.
When I canvassed my successors, Anthony Matthews and Kevin Affleck, they were unable to add greatly to the list apart from the club’s head of communications, Scott Field, and, briefly, Aidy Boothroyd, who subsequently fell out with Ashton.
So, for the moment I am left with former chairman Graham Simpson and, their nomination, Scott Field – the latter being one of the survivors of what seemed to be the revolving door at Vicarage Road – new employees arriving, only to go later, paid up and gagged by confidentiality agreements.
I can understand the frustration experienced by some fans who cannot understand why others are all but dancing in the street over the departures of Simpson and Ashton, for no one has produced a smoking gun.
No one has said it was Colonel Mustard with a knife in the library.
Even the outcome of the recent EGM leaves some still baffled.
Usually, when there is a vote of no confidence, a poll is called and those with the largest number of shares behind them win the day, no matter how cogent the arguments to the contrary.
The Russos, with only 29 per cent, were bound to be outgunned share-wise, but it was their armoury in support of the cause of no confidence, that forced Simpson to fall on his sword before a shot was fired.
It is ironic that we understand Simpson signed a confidentiality agreement over the deal that led to his going, but he was then able to spin his piece to the assembled, a facility most departing employees over the last four years have been denied.
The confidentiality agreements supported the soviet-style structure at Vicarage Road. No one left with a few parting shots or revelations.
Even when this newspaper received information from excellent sources that the club faced severe financial problems unless certain actions were taken, we were threatened with legal action, while the board had discussions with the bank.
Unfortunately, when it comes to citing quotable examples, most of them have been experienced by the Watford Observer and, in resorting to these, we are open to the charge of having an axe to grind.
So let us be quite clear, if anyone had an axe to grind over Simpson and Ashton, this newspaper would be in the forefront.
Some, such as former manager Ray Lewington, would contend the dynamics of Watford FC relationships changed when Simpson plucked Ashton from relative administrative obscurity at the Hawthorns.
Ashton was very influential with Simpson.
When the chairman quizzed the manager on the Sunday or the Monday, as they analysed the match, Lewington would give the same answers and invariably Simpson would reply: “Yes, that’s what Mark reckoned.”
When Elton John suggested Lewington fly over to the United States to discuss possibilities with a view to helping buy players, he also asked the manager to bring Simpson along.
Lewington remembered being asked by Simpson to lobby for Ashton to be included “so Elton can witness first-hand the energy of the man”.
Early in their partnership, there were signs of this tendency towards the attempted bulldozing of opposition, or resorting to litigation.
They ran into problems with former vice-chairman Haig Oundjian’s sports clothing company, being forced to pay significant compensation for breaking a contract when early negotiation may have settled the matter in a less costly fashion.
I remember that within days of my retirement, Ashton informed the Watford Observer they had to provide the identity of the Player of the Season winner in advance, something we had never done in 34 years.
A year later Ashton advised us we would have to pay them £1,000 each year for the right to run our Player of the Season Award – take it or leave it.
To say they pulled a new stroke monthly against this newspaper would be a serious understatement.
Ever since the club was founded, this newspaper has given it publicity and been provided with team news, quotes and news of plans for the future and weekly access.
That ceased on a weekly basis almost immediately I retired.
It seemed to me the executives were determined to bring the paper to heel and reduce it to an extension of their publicity arm.
Remember when the newspaper was banned for daring to print the legitimate complaints over the delays in obtaining Elton John Concert tickets?
When the Watford Observer’s representatives were called to discuss the story, Ashton was part of the fiercely aggressive, over-the-top harangue, adding the priceless remark: “You never help us. You are always against us.”
He had been at Watford just a few months.
Simpson later admitted he was wrong, apologising to the fans for the problems with ticket sales but he did not apologise to the newspaper.
But what of Ashton’s achievements?
Well he did bring the board’s attention to the availability of Aidy Boothroyd, although that does not look quite such an inspired appointment now and the growing number, who thought the manager’s initial success was a fluke, will be watching his post-Watford career with interest.
But in 2006 with Premiership status attained, things looked good with funds to build a new stand.
Perhaps indicative of how they perceived themselves, Ashton, Simpson and Boothroyd posed for a programme front cover photo.
However, such an alliance was bound to falter and from all accounts it came apart at the seams in the case of Boothroyd and Ashton.
Ashton was also deeply involved in selling the corners of the ground – a decision I described as disturbing at the time.
As one critic put it: “Ashton said the corners were not used but I have a bedroom that is not used.
I might rent it out but I certainly would not dream of selling it. I might want it later.”
Watford gained a one-off payment, which we now know has been swallowed up.
The one decision which did impress me was the purchase of The Red Lion but as to the responsibility for it, I know not.
Estimates of his salary vary but we see the directors’ remuneration in the accounts is listed at £908,000.
There were three directors, two of whom were employed by the club so you can make your own assessments.
Interestingly, by comparison, the 2007/08 Annual Report of each NHS Trust Salaries are always declared in bands. The chief executives are paid figures varying from £130,00 to £190,000.
If we take Great Ormond St Hospital for instance, with a turnover of £271m, with 2,700 employees, the CEO takes home £175-£180k.
Watford’s turnover is somewhat smaller, as are the number of employees, and the signs are that the club is in a difficult financial state. Ashton’s finances appear healthier.
It is odd to reflect we had Manchester United’s apparent interest in head-hunting the Watford chief executive.
Certainly the timing dovetailed neatly for Ashton accepted the carrot of a position on the Hornets’ board, as opposed to joining the biggest club in the world, and one of his first tasks was to raise his hand in agreement to kick the Russos off.
Some critics of the recent Watford board suggest that Ashton was given too much rein and Simpson was really the well-meaning cop in the partnership.
It is a theory based on naivety. They worked as a pair.
Certainly when attempting to get departing employees to give us some hint as to what was going on, all would decline to talk.
Ashton’s days were numbered once Simpson was forced to resign and legend has it on the Morning of the Long Knife, which passed for an EGM, Jimmy Russo pointed at Ashton and informed him: “You’re next.”
Personally, I would seriously have preferred to deal with two Luca Viallis and a handful of Jack Petcheys than deal with Ashton.
I am far from being alone in that respect.
If there were shifts for bell-ringing at St Mary’s to celebrate his departure, I would put my name down but I don’t reckon they would get round to those whose names begin with P until somewhere around next Whit Monday.
Don’t just take my word for it.
I will give you a Watford fan, who has supported the club all his life.
He wrote for the fanzines, followed the Hornets all over the country and finally landed a dream job, writing in Watford’s press office.
But then the job soured for Richard Walker.
He felt he could not face the club’s spin culture every day and resigned, despite the fact he did not have another job to go to.
This week Richard appeared on Watford’s Mailing List. His message on Ashton’s departure was brief and simple: “Unusual of me to break silence on a matter? Yes, but this is worth it...
“Hold your opinions as you will on the recent changes (including re: all sorts of personnel and other developments) but be advised of one thing. This news is a very good thing for the club.
“Today, there are a lot of ex-employees – yes, myself included – who will feel there’s now a chance of the club they knew returning.”
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Your Say YourWatford
Only 2 Ross Jenkins, oxhey says...
1:43pm Mon 22 Dec 08
ab11uk, watford says...
2:26pm Mon 22 Dec 08
derry pigweed, northampton says...
2:56pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Clappers what do you think of Ca$hton now?
The very least we should have expected from this Golden era of Premiership money and player sales was a new east stand sadly we have nothing!
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
3:26pm Mon 22 Dec 08
HertsPeter, Watford says...
3:47pm Mon 22 Dec 08
straight red, watford says...
4:09pm Mon 22 Dec 08
And for those that think that the incomopetent Ashton worked alone you are sadly mistaken, GS was party to ALL that went on at the Vic during the failed goalkeepers tenure.
I can give you so many examples of what went on during what is arguably the worst WFC regime in living history. Will try to keep this short, but how about a couple of examples to sum up the delusional incompetent that was paid arguably the most obscene salary in return for abject failure...
The club regularly receive requests from local organisations for the football manager to attend various PR events. On some of these occasions where the football manger could not attend, the delusional Ashton put himself forward to attend as a substitute for the football manager (apparently was going to turn up in a club track suit). Tell me, who in their right mind would want to listen to a faceless suit, who should instead be working hard BEHIND the scenes? Most fans want to hear from their football manager or a first team player / not a frustrated, delusional incompetent that is hated with a passion by the overwhelming majority of supporters, businesses and organisations connected with the town.
Tell me, which chairman of a football club would stand idly by and let the CEO hire their partner from WBA, come in do a crap job and when they leave continue paying for their services through some trumped up consultancy basis? This practise almost makes the bankers look copmpetent - I could continue ad verbatim but I'm sure you get the gist by now.
And finally....For any of you who are unsure about the 'quality' of the newly appointed CEO (appointed by the recently departed incompetent Ashton) here's a recent quote from the man "I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Mark Ashton for his hard work during his time at the club, and he'll always be a welcome visitor." Do I need to say anymore??? We should be concerned that people like Winter and the poodle from the media office (who was sad to seeAshton leave as Oli established) and other tools employed by the incompetent Ashton are still employed at our club - hopefully this will not be for too much longer.
piemagico, London says...
4:46pm Mon 22 Dec 08
eltonsarmy, vegas says...
5:16pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Muddy, Watford says...
5:42pm Mon 22 Dec 08
herts hornet, watford says...
6:16pm Mon 22 Dec 08
T Smith, Watford says...
6:55pm Mon 22 Dec 08
henry, oxhey says...
7:32pm Mon 22 Dec 08
I like the idea that the (unfortunately) lasting monument to the departed in our 3 sided ground that looks like a block of flats
should be the MA stand.
JamesA, KL says...
8:01pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Can't agree with everything you've written. Painting the WO as blameless in the EJ ticket fiasco being a case in point: the newly-tabloided Observer's over-reaction was ridiculous and did much to precipitate the break down in the club/paper relationship.
On the subject of Affleck: glad he's gone. He played a part in prolonging the Simpson era and is no loss to the Observer. If he had been able to convey more objectivity in his reporting then i feel confident the failings of the Simpson/Ashton era would have been better exposed.
Hopefully the paper and club can now more move forward on a better footing. On this subject, can the Observer now try and do something to stop the turning of the Vic into a block of flats? The paper had been woefully negligent in it's failure to tackle this issue.
WFC4ever, Watford says...
8:43pm Mon 22 Dec 08
HertsPeter wrote:Did they not make a statement last week criticising Ashton..yes maybe too late in terms of he had already left I would admit.
I expect the Trust thought he was a top bloke!
Anyway its time everyone moved on and hope that we do get a set of board members that do know how to do the best for the club without a big ego and inflated ideas (I remember Ashton kept saying how "rubbish" our ground was which actually I thought was a bit direspectful) - well at least East srand could be used...now it looks even worse with no-one apart from press members.
Also smaller wages but that will happen anyway as we are skint.
I read we had 35 members of staff..is that just for the football side or overall under Aidy?
Too much!
VoR, Watford says...
8:45pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Hold your horses every peeps!
Dear old Olli has always had issues with the the club ever since he'd departed, it's just that he's in a privileged position to vent his issues.
Painting the WO as whiter than white is an error thus making some of this article questionable.
Who has Olli been emailing?
Has he come back from his Château?
He's clearly right about some this tho' to which for the very last time, I hold my hands up & categorically state that I was indeed wrong about Ashton, but for the right reasons.
On the subject of the Watford Observer......I see no improvement with WFC articals, at least KA asked some probing questions (wrongly) Started ok with AM mug shot (to introduce himself) but nothing since, although he went to the egm we've had nothing in print from him. He seems to be getting other people to do his dirty work.
T.Smith & Ab11 meet outside rouse entrance (Handley place next to hospital) on boxing day (apt)
I'll be the one with the rubber chicken and i wont be afraid to use it!
Again....Stop being Sheep.
Baaaaaa Baaaaaaaaa BAaaaaaaaaaaa BAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa
aaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaa
enlightened one, Watford says...
8:54pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Hopefully tales of this prize toepunt will remain with us all for many years to come,when with any luck we will avoid a repeat of this sad state of affairs.
Merry Christmas one and all. You Orns !
Roger68, St Albans says...
9:23pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Of course we all realise that Ashton as CEO was co-responsible for decisions that turned out to be bad ones, and that is why he had to go. But now we know what some of us did not know before , namely that almost everybody who came into contact with him during his time at Watford ended up by disliking him, which made his regime dysfunctional, and sooner or later doomed anyway. Ollie adds a bit more fuel to this particular "bonfire of the reputations" , which has already been well stoked by other contributors to this board. There seem to be quite a lot of people Ashton offended or upset (or fired) on his way up, who are only to pleased (confidentiality clauses permitting) to kick him on his way down. Such is life, Mark.
However Ollie is a bit ingenous in his account of Observer-Club relations. He refers to the "excellent sources" for the financial crisis story of last August, but does not concede that this source must have had his own motives for feeding this version of the story to the WO (which was in key respects not true as published). Ollie is not prepared to reflect critically or self critically on this episode. He says the outcome of the recent EGM "left some supporters baffled". Yes we are baffled, and the WO should be enlightening us, if it knows more than it has yet said about those behind closed doors events. And if he and his Observer colleagues had such strong reservations about Ashton's character, conduct and leadership failings and also knowledge of "fallings out" with the manager going back months, why wait till now to tell us about them? Should they not have been alerting us earlier, as a responsible local paper, about Ashtons shortcomings, as they saw them? It seems they had plenty of evidence from their own experience to do this, or could allude to the experience of others without breaking onfidences. I feel somewhat let down by the WO on this score.
And the reaction on this board--well, people were highly critical when the WST came out and criticised Ashton after he had left , saying they should have done this sooner. But some of the same people now rush to congratulate Ollie for "telling it like it is"---after the event. Of course the WST made the mistake of supporting Ashton (or at least Simpson) before they both went down, and Ollie never went that far. But could he not have been more candid and shared his reservations earlier? Arguably it was more his role (as an investigative reporter) than that of the WST to do this, and he had fewer constraints on him than they did.
I hope that now the WO will rebuild its relations with the club and give us some candid, independent and authoratative reporting of on-field and off -field events at the club. I hope the WO will be inquisitive, balanced and reliable in its coverage, not taken in by club spin, not allowing itself to be used by insider parties in their struggles for power and influence , and not pursuing its own agenda. It can start now in its approach to the new regime in charge, which still, in my view is not inquisitive enough.
T Smith, Watford says...
9:40pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Billie, Kings Langley says...
10:28pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Billie, Kings Langley says...
10:52pm Mon 22 Dec 08
Losing Ashton is truly a gain.
EJGlasses, says...
11:02pm Mon 22 Dec 08
An accurate read Oli. One I bet those who suffered under Trashton found satisfying.
I remember reading one of your pieces, think it was January this year, where you hinted strongly at the regime, how AM and KA were treated crap.
I've been told they had an open door policy - 'come and tell us your ideas, what you think of the status quo' - but everyone knew if they questioned, saw a flaw or came up with something better (uninvited) they'd be fired.
Good on ya RW - respect.
ab11uk, watford says...
9:04am Tue 23 Dec 08
"i was wrong but in the right way"
classic baffoon.
sorry vOr you can try and slander the clubs best reporter in this centurt, who has worked with the club to produce write ups on the greatest players in its time and to produce offical documentation for sale.
I'm Sorry but as someone else has said your defence of this crook will stay with you until you stop posting on this board.
As ollie said anyone who run into this guy desliked him.
now i quote you from before......
I hanged up some of his paintings in his house a thoroughly nice bloke.
as usual your views are completely opposite to watford fans. take your rubber chicken round cashtons as his days of robbing us are overe and he can no longer afford a turkey.
ab11uk, watford says...
9:12am Tue 23 Dec 08
Roger68 wrote:Roger 69 your choice of recollection baffles me in your defence of your disgusting views.
An interesting article and interesting reactions. Of course we all realise that Ashton as CEO was co-responsible for decisions that turned out to be bad ones, and that is why he had to go. But now we know what some of us did not know before , namely that almost everybody who came into contact with him during his time at Watford ended up by disliking him, which made his regime dysfunctional, and sooner or later doomed anyway. Ollie adds a bit more fuel to this particular "bonfire of the reputations" , which has already been well stoked by other contributors to this board. There seem to be quite a lot of people Ashton offended or upset (or fired) on his way up, who are only to pleased (confidentiality clauses permitting) to kick him on his way down. Such is life, Mark. However Ollie is a bit ingenous in his account of Observer-Club relations. He refers to the "excellent sources" for the financial crisis story of last August, but does not concede that this source must have had his own motives for feeding this version of the story to the WO (which was in key respects not true as published). Ollie is not prepared to reflect critically or self critically on this episode. He says the outcome of the recent EGM "left some supporters baffled". Yes we are baffled, and the WO should be enlightening us, if it knows more than it has yet said about those behind closed doors events. And if he and his Observer colleagues had such strong reservations about Ashton's character, conduct and leadership failings and also knowledge of "fallings out" with the manager going back months, why wait till now to tell us about them? Should they not have been alerting us earlier, as a responsible local paper, about Ashtons shortcomings, as they saw them? It seems they had plenty of evidence from their own experience to do this, or could allude to the experience of others without breaking onfidences. I feel somewhat let down by the WO on this score. And the reaction on this board--well, people were highly critical when the WST came out and criticised Ashton after he had left , saying they should have done this sooner. But some of the same people now rush to congratulate Ollie for "telling it like it is"---after the event. Of course the WST made the mistake of supporting Ashton (or at least Simpson) before they both went down, and Ollie never went that far. But could he not have been more candid and shared his reservations earlier? Arguably it was more his role (as an investigative reporter) than that of the WST to do this, and he had fewer constraints on him than they did. I hope that now the WO will rebuild its relations with the club and give us some candid, independent and authoratative reporting of on-field and off -field events at the club. I hope the WO will be inquisitive, balanced and reliable in its coverage, not taken in by club spin, not allowing itself to be used by insider parties in their struggles for power and influence , and not pursuing its own agenda. It can start now in its approach to the new regime in charge, which still, in my view is not inquisitive enough.
Kevin affleck a great friend of Oli posted about ashtons ways beginning of the season and what happened to him?? threatened with legal action.
infact roger if you learn to read you will see the oli says why most couldnt say to much about him is because he sacked them and threatened to sue them.
everyone except for you and VoaT (voice of a tw*t) were highly critical of ashton for most of his reign so saying we only pipped up when he was sacked makes you look even more dillusional than what you probably are. I'm glad you admit the WST made the mistake of backing ashton. surely you should admit it was your mistake aswell?
to tell the WO not to be taken in by club spin i can only say that you are the most naive person i have heard for a long time. only two weeks ago your were saying these two were the saviour of the club.
trying to distance yourself from your disgusting views now is little bit late.
WE CAN SEE YOU SNEAKING OUT.... WE CAN SEE YOU SNEAKING OUT
Billie, Kings Langley says...
9:57am Tue 23 Dec 08
A straight question...do you work for the club?
A single observation on whether the WO got 'used' by their source. If the administration story was true, (and we did raise a fair bit of the £10m by September), ie: if hypothetically speaking, say the FD had made the statement, does it matter who was the source that he had made it? Truth, that is what matters. It is for the conscience of individuals as to their reasons for blowing whistles, and for the paper to assess the validity of the story. As we now know, the threats of legal action turned out to be empty.
Absurdly, the BBC economics correspondent Robert Peston got flak for telling the truth and disturbing the financial markets over the Northern Rock fiasco. Never mind the clowns 'in the know' making fortunes at customer and shareholders expense, blame the guy who told them the truth. Well done Robert. On a smaller scale, but the principle stands, well done Kevin, one of the few to emerge with credit from the WFC fiasco. And if you (KA) did exhibit the odd sign of a human emotion such as disgust in some of your reports, good on you for being a human being (and one who got it right, as did the Russos for standing up against the ridiculous actions of the tricky trio).
VoR...Beaconsfield?
Hexham Hornet, HEXHAM says...
10:44am Tue 23 Dec 08
Now that the Stalinesque element of the Board has left perhaps the two side can rebuild their relationship and bring Watford back into the open community based family club it became under SEJ and GT. More importantly the club must now prioritise their appointments of a new board and also the sorting out of the financial mess they have been left in.
If I was on th board I would make a direct approach to the following: Lord Ashcroft, SEJ, Russo bros and ask if a) they wanted to be on the Board, b) they would be interested in a proper business investment in the club beyond having a shareholding to raise funds that will be repaid as and when possible, c) if they can recommend or persuade other potentially interested parties to join the club. I am sure SEJ could be encouraged to return in some capacity and what we need now is a 5 year period of stability and redevelopment.
Lets hope the New Year brings in new money and a push forwards.
mkhorn, milton keynes says...
10:58am Tue 23 Dec 08
Prof Plum, Rickmansworth says...
11:20am Tue 23 Dec 08
Happy xmas to all Hornets
Billie, Kings Langley says...
11:46am Tue 23 Dec 08
I think Pete was a WST man but I know he is a great supporter of the club and it's traditions...and had the courage to say so. I don't believe he was an employee, and therefore has only ever contibuted rather than received any funds whatsoever.
colni zip, Controversey says...
12:08pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Some of you were so far up Boothroyds and Ashtons backsides that you could see Graham Simpsons feet.
Shame on you for buying into the propaganda...and especially you VoR - even now still defiant in defeat.
And what of that prat in Aberdeen?
Roger68, St Albans says...
12:45pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Billie-- no I do not work for WFC, but yes I do the think the WO should have been more alert to the motives of the source when it printed the financial crisis scare story in August.
Prof---Yes, the WO should have made us aware of what it now says it has known for a long time, namely that there were fault lines of disagreement within the old board , traceable to personality clashes between ambitious Boothroyd and arrogant Ashton, which was making the management of the club dysfunctional. No silly headlines--just a professional treatment of a relevant story.
In fact I think you guys are rather fixated on things of the past. You seem intent on working out your rage against Simpson/Ashton, while enjoying the blame game a bit too much. You need to start looking ahead a bit. The departure of Ashton and Simpson is not the end of the leadership /financial crisis at the club. It is not even the beginning of the end, though it is a turning point. But for better or worse? You may say it can only be for the better, but that remains to be seen. Hexham is right that stability, financial restructuring, new investments and a plan for next season as well as for the rest of this season are urgently needed.I hope the Russo's intend to provide it. If not them , who?
FromDiv4, Local says...
1:33pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Prof Plum, Rickmansworth says...
2:54pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Roger68, St Albans says...
3:20pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Billie, Kings Langley says...
3:21pm Tue 23 Dec 08
I am sure the WO were fully alert to the motives of their source(s). I suggested it is the truth that matters. You think it more important to look for the motives of the source. By definition, you seem therefore to suggest that the truth is less important than games people play. I am sorry, that tells me all I need to know about your own standards. Politics overcome truth for you. A modern tendency perhaps, but it loses any respect I have for your opinion.
You then absurdly suggest that the WO should have made everyone aware of 'fault lines' within the old Board. Err, so when it suits you, they should print what their sources come up with. Finally, having supported the regime who kicked our biggest ever investors in the teeth, you have the cheek to suggest they should bail us out. Really, your opinions are patently ridiculous old chap...no offence.
Perhaps we should all lay off poor old VoR, my new friend. Having got things so hopelessly wrong, it must have knocked his confidence terribly.
He has at least acknowledged twice the massive error of his ways...so fairs fair, lets give him a break (?). Beaconsfield VoR?
WFC4ever, Watford says...
4:22pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Each article starts off with a good and fair debate before the same old people take over...
As FromDiv4 says most people seem more interested in trying to score points off each and in the case od Colin going "ner ner I told you so"...well done - Is Santa going to bring a Gold Star?
NOW we should be more worried about have we got interested investors willing to become invovled with the club (apart from the Russos?) and the directors.
Afterall whilst Ashton going is good news for employees of the club if its true he didn't like them we still have the fear of selling players and ofcourse no plans about the re-development for the ground as yet.
Oliver Phillips might want to jump up and down ringing bells (yes the club were harsh with the Watford Ob..) but lets just be a little bit wary.
Afterall at the moment we are still run by a director brought in by Mr Simpson and Mark Ashton?
Have we heard more about the Russos coming back?
cliff46, watford says...
5:00pm Tue 23 Dec 08
I do however think the Observer/Oli could have written much of this article well before Ashton's departure rather than wait until afterwards.
The relationship between the WO and the club had been bad for a long time so what had the WO got to lose by allowing Oli to publish sooner.
My own experience indicates that the Russo brothers and the WO have a good relationship ( which is fine)so why are we not being told what is going on. I suspect the WO know but are not saying.
The fans concerns are being totally ignored by whoever runs our club these days and the WO are in effect colluding with them.
Roger68, St Albans says...
5:09pm Tue 23 Dec 08
And WFC4--I hope I am not just indulging in point scoring here--I really am doing my best to move the discussion forward.
Chris the Vic, The Vic says...
5:11pm Tue 23 Dec 08
They were continually slammed for publishing unconfirmed statements etc.
We now know they sufferred from Ashton, threats of legal action etc and tyrannical bullying.
A great article Ollie, albeit what some of us new already.
Those attacking VoR should button it. He spoke with knowledge, makes interesting comments but was taken in by Ashton, as were many people. Not a major crime but an error of judgement which he has admitted to and deserves respect for his honesty.
I struggle more with Roger's arguements that the WO should have been more aggressive with their reporting. Afflek was and got the kitchen sink thrown at him and the local paper needs WFC to assist as well as assisting wfc. This relationship was broken by the board with a massive split because they didnt like criticism. Spats will occur but this was different, they were bullied by threats etc and at last we can see an end to it.
Roger, you ignore the reality of the position that the WO found itself in, you also for many a month ignored the poor leadership the club suffered from stop trying to score points The WO are not perfect but I think they are honest and not guilty of too much spin and are pretty ethical and did a good job given the pressures brought to bear by the WFC board and senior managers.
mkhorn, milton keynes says...
5:39pm Tue 23 Dec 08
WFC4ever, Watford says...
5:41pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Billie--not so old chap. I am concerned that when a newspaper runs a story based on a leak, that both the truthfulness of the story and the motivations of the source are thoroughly considered by the paper. Neither seemed to be in the KA story of last August . The Ollie article was insightful, but was a bit self serving towards the WO , and also had a whiff of It wasn't you actually...your point was just an alternative to others which is fair enough.
VoR, Watford says...
8:10pm Tue 23 Dec 08
While I'm a glass half full kinda Guy, It worries me greatly that KA is now being portrayed as some kind of hero that unearthed certain failings within the old regime - anything but - he based his propaganda on hearsay and half truths which while may be good enough for certain tabloids (as they carry weight & clout) it was unbecoming of a local rag (especially Watfords) He cottoned on to something but went the wrong way about it, remember his analysis after each and every game? extremely biased and without any praise towards the team when - on the rare occasion - had played quite well, with little or no acknowledgement to Aidy, instead wishing to exasperate the failings to the extent of his own downfall, Amateurish to say he least (sorry Billie)
Now to this point in time, There's been nothing from the Wobbo to allay the fears of the supporter, it started off promising to begin with but in my opinion have become rather toothless, why should that be? as they know a great deal but choose not to print it, again why?
Also why is Oli having his hissy fit, is he now on the Wobbo books again? He has issues yes but that was way back when, that's done and dusted, it would impress me more if he'd look a bit further ahead and concentrate on the future instead of raking up the past time and time again!
My fear (as a supporter) is whether we will carry on the traditions instead of being a soulless feeder club to the detriment of our established and envied academy set up.
I'm a happy VoR today as it's a special day in the VoR household, it's the only day i'm in with a chance of getting my leg over with Mrs VoR ....But with anything in life you shouldn't take anything for granted, never mind i've always got my rubber Chicken!
Tonight Matthew i'll be holding a Beacon in honour of our dearly departed ex- Chairman on a field somewhere in Buckinghamshire...Co
me and see.
Merry Xmas to most, esp Bills and Chris....oh and another one from KL...the name escapes me and Tiger Bay Old Boy, wherever you are.
The others? Go whistle and expect your prezzie (Sheeps turd) to be posted thru the door prior to 25th!
Billie, Kings Langley says...
8:16pm Tue 23 Dec 08
You likewise.
Here's to a Happy Healthy Xmas and New Year for all true 'Orns. Graham Gimpson, Reality of South Mimms in particular.
Decent debate going on here.
Roger, I sincerely apologise if you are not old. To be fair for all I know you are an infant. Sorry.
I think you will find that both the truthfulness of the story and the reliability...not the motivations...of the source were thoroughly considered by the paper. But come on...the motivations? Tell me any paper that if supplied with an accurate scoop, would not print. Happy Xmas anyway mate. Now I am a bosom buddy with VoR I am having withdrawal symptoms from derision! Your response was constructive and more courteous than my provocative posting...the season of goodwill and all that. Anyway roger, life begins at 40! You are young enough to be my great great great wrong grandson.
Billie, Kings Langley says...
8:25pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Matthew? Err. Mark (ughh!), Luke and John. Beaconsfield my boy. In my crystal ball I see a Cottage (no not cottaging you wally)...near a Pond. Good luck with Mrs VoR VoR, we would not want this to be 'the winter of our discontent'. Who said that...dear old Willie Shakespear was it? Who did he play for?
johnny b, bushey says...
10:02pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Olli not really told us anything new,just collated every little whisper & rumor over the last year or so and turned it in to a xmas special..
Right what most are saying,in the fact that we really need to get behind our team for the rest of this season,regardless of who and who don,t go in january,and make the super horns appealling,to future supporters and investors,cos the thought of us ending up like the scum up the road is enough to give you nightmares,that and the thought of vOr and his sheep..
Hope there organic
T Smith, Watford says...
10:24pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Roger68, St Albans says...
10:45pm Tue 23 Dec 08
derry pigweed, northampton says...
10:56pm Tue 23 Dec 08
Are you Julian Winter ?
Billie, Kings Langley says...
11:30pm Tue 23 Dec 08
maybe...just maybe
Robert, Watford says...
10:12am Wed 24 Dec 08
His article is mostly a collection of thoughts on matters that have already been aired in one way or another.
It is all a matter of timing and the rightful reputation he holds.
The WO has been in conflict with the club’s management since day one. Now that the regime has been toppled it is an easy target.
Unfortunately, many football fans are fickle and periods of success on the pitch have masked the damage being done to the ethos of the club.
The WO has been of the few voice of opposition and it is laughable to suggest it should have done more to oppose Simpson, Ashton et al when the suits at the club enlisted highly paid lawyers to silence it and its reporter was vilified by many deluded supporters for his dogged pursuit of the truth.
EJGlasses, says...
11:17pm Wed 24 Dec 08
An Ashtonite is now CEO.
Happy Christmas Hornet posters.
Here's to 3 points for our Boxing Day Golden Boys and Championship stability in 2009.
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Kenny's Jackett & Tommy's Mooney, says...
12:58pm Mon 22 Dec 08