England midfielder Parker rounds off West Ham United's victory at Watford

9:44pm Tuesday 16th August 2011 in Sport By Anthony Matthews, Group Sports Editor

Hornets suffer heavy Hammers defeat Hornets suffer heavy Hammers defeat

Watford’s winless start to the season was extended to a third game tonight as West Ham United showed why they are strong candidates for an instant return to the Premier League with a 4-0 victory at Vicarage Road.

The Hornets had some cause to feel aggrieved at finding themselves two goals down at the interval, although they were up against it from the third minute when slack defending allowed James Tomkins to head the opener.

However, Watford were promising for much of the first half thereafter and created more of the chances but their inability to capitalise on them was punished in first-half injury-time when Joey O’Brien doubled the visitors’ lead.

West Ham always looked in control after the break and capable of upping their game if they needed to, producing a slick and incisive move midway through the half that gave Carlton Cole the easiest of finishes.

That knocked the stuffing out of the hosts and, after a couple of close calls, they conceded a fourth late on to Scott Parker, raising more concerns about the Hornets’ lack of firepower after they failed to register at home for the second consecutive match.

Despite not picking up three points in the opening two games, Sean Dyche opted to keep faith with the same starting line-up for the third match running.

The Hammers, who got off the mark at Doncaster Rovers on Saturday, had all their big guns on show as Sam Allardyce made just the one change from that 1-0 victory, with Cole replacing Frederic Piquionne.

Watford went straight on the attack from the opening whistle, with a Carl Dickinson throw from the left causing problems in the Hammers box. Martin Taylor managed to recycle the ball back to Dickinson, whose cross was retrieved by Craig Forsyth, he laid it back to John Eustace and the Hornets skipper connected well with a right-footed drive that Robert Green managed to grasp at the second attempt, under pressure from Marvin Sordell.

The action immediately switched to the other end where the visitors won their first free-kick and Matt Taylor struck a fine left-footed effort across goal that Scott Loach did well to get across to and push behind for a corner.

However, Watford’s defending from Matt Taylor’s set-piece from the right was disappointing, with Tomkins allowed to get in largely unchallenged at the back post to head firmly home and give West Ham a third-minute lead.

The hosts responded to that early setback positively, with Sordell striking a fairly routine effort through to Green before Forsyth rose well to get on the end of a Mark Yeates cross from the right but the Scot was unable to keep his header down.

However, the Watford goal came under threat again in the 14th minute when Adrian Mariappa upended Jack Collison on the edge of the box, giving Taylor another opportunity to demonstrate his ability from dead balls, but this time he got too much whip on his effort and it went wide of Loach’s left-hand post.

Instead of going two behind, the Hornets were almost level twice within a space of a minute.

First Sordell did well to wrong-foot Tomkins on the left side of the area before hitting a rising right-footed curling effort that was destined for the top corner until Green superbly tipped it over with his outstretched left arm.

Then, from the Hornets’ first corner of the match, a downward header from John Eustace was certain to test Green again until it struck Sordell, with Chris Iwelumo wrongly deemed to have put the rebound over when the last touch came off an opposition defender.

However, it needed a fine, last-gasp challenge to prevent Winston Reid from potentially doubling West Ham’s advantage in the 26th minute after Cole had flicked on Collison’s lofted delivery from the byline towards the near post.

Back came Watford, with Forsyth doing well to win a race with O’Brien down the left before playing in Sordell, whose pace took him away from two defenders but his cut-back was behind Iwelumo.

Sordell warmed Green’s gloves with another decent effort as a whirlwind opening half-hour came to a close before Iwelumo also tested the England keeper with a low header after Eustace ducked under a Yeates corner from the right.

West Ham though, finished the opening half strongly and had an excellent chance two minutes before the interval when Collison came in at the back post to meet a deep cross from the left but he was unable to keep his header down.

The visitors had another great opportunity soon after when they broke swiftly on the counter and Cole was played in but, as the England striker closed in on goal, he was put under pressure and Loach did well to come out, narrow the angle and make the save.

But there was to be no third escape for Dyche’s men as West Ham doubled their lead in the second minute of injury time.

It initially looked the Hornets had dealt with the danger when O’Brien’s initial effort from the edge of the box was blocked but the ball broke nicely for the right-back and he steered a left-footed effort wide of Loach to make it 2-0.

The hosts had the first opening of the second period when an off-balance Iwelumo headed a Forsyth cross from the left tamely wide.

The next chance was largely the own making of the impressive Sordell, showing good control on the edge of the area before hitting a right-footed snap-shot that squirmed from Green’s but, fortunately for him, went wide, after Dickinson and Forsyth had been involved in a left-sided build-up.

Iwelumo’s disappointing evening came to an end in the 56th minute when he was replaced by Gavin Massey.

The game then went through a quiet spell, with West Ham largely content to sit on their winning hand, while their opponents had the bulk of possession but were unable to create too much with it.

The Hammers made their first change with 68 minutes on the clock as Abdoulaye Faye came on for Tomkins and then Green made a routine stop from a Forsyth strike from the edge of the box.

The visitors had not managed an effort on goal in the second half, but that all changed two minutes later when they put the game to bed.

Kevin Nolan received the ball on the left side of the box and fed the overlapping Herita Ilunga and his low cross left Cole with the simplest of finishes to make it 3-0 and finish off the neat build-up.

That was to be the scorer’s last involvement as he was replaced soon after by Piquionne, while Troy Deeney came on for Yeates. Julien Faubert also entered the fray moments later for Collison.

Parker wasn’t far away from making it 4-0 with seven minutes remaining when his right-footed piledriver hit the supporting post behind the goal.

A far better chance came moments later when Adrian Mariappa’s attempted clearance following a ball in from the right hit Martin Taylor and sat up nicely for Nolan, but he put his half-volley on the turn over.

But Parker did get the goal his performance merited as 90 minutes ticked by, curling a fine left-footed finish past Loach.

Watford: Loach; Doyley, Mariappa, Mar Taylor, Dickinson; Yeates (Deeney 74), Jenkins, Eustace, Forsyth; Iwelumo (Massey 56), Sordell. Not used: Gilmartin, Bennett and Mirfin.

West Ham United: Green; O’Brien, Tomkins (Faye 68), Reid, Ilunga; Collison (Faubert 75), Noble, Parker, Matt Taylor; Nolan; Cole (Piquionne 74). Not used: Barrera and Boffin.

Bookings: Noble for dissent (86).

Attendance: 14,747.

Referee: Dean Whitestone.

Comments(94)

dogwfc says...
9:56pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Put simply - this could be a very long season. Hopefully Dyche will sort the defence out very, very soon. 7 goals already conceded is worrying to say the least. Love Doyley for service but he is just not a good footballer. Why can none of our last four managers see this but most fans can. Oh well - we can only get better - can't we?!!

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SAHornet says...
10:07pm Tue 16 Aug 11

It will be a long season without a goalscorer, I'm afraid. Much as I think that Deeney has been a terrible waste of SEJ's gift to the club, I do now think that he should start with MS for a few games with CI on the bench. Seems like we might have wasted funds on him also. A new, sharp striker must be brought in immediately, even on loan

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Hornet Cornet says...
10:11pm Tue 16 Aug 11

HC predicted 0-4. I am watford god

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Vet_kills_puppy says...
10:12pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Rather than endure Radio London Bubble here Up North I went out for a pint at 0-1. I came back to be greeted by 0-3. And the rest.
Sui-fu-kin-cidal.
Security words: bear-cost. Says it all really.

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PembsHornet says...
10:12pm Tue 16 Aug 11

I read the forum everyday but dont comment that often but after tonights result I feel that I must to help relieve some of the frustration!! We sell the divisions best striker and replace him with a has been that was never that good when he in his prime and when chasing the game our only striking option is the bring on an 18 year old to try and change the game, Deeney only ever appears to be used out wide! I know we have made huge changes over the summer and that it will take time to gel but I get the feeling that we are already in freefall and confidence within the team will only get lower. Goodbye Doyley and hello Thompson, let's give the Prince or Walker a go in centre mid, buy a new striker desperately to help Sordell and either put Iwelumo in goal or send him back to Burnley or processing at the dog food factory!! I agree things cam only get better but will that be this year or next??

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Hornet Cornet says...
10:12pm Tue 16 Aug 11

HC predicted 0-4. I am watford god

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mile high ron says...
10:16pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Perhaps this score line will help minimise any agro’…
Roll-on Saturday and three points PLEASE!

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Mangoputney says...
10:20pm Tue 16 Aug 11

When does the season finish?!

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garston 'orn says...
10:23pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Is useless lump iwelumo seeming to remind us of liam henderson who has moved to a non-league side. how long will it take dyche to realise we need another striker or will we rely on light wait, small massey ?

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ceebee580 says...
10:38pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Looks like weve had our pockets picked again Dychy.
Woefully short of quality and cover all over the pitch. None existent defence, no goalscorer, bench full of kids,whats going on. ANY CHANCE OF SOME REINFORCEMENTS
Long season in front of us.

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Foxton1 says...
10:39pm Tue 16 Aug 11

How long will it take to realise the cheap gamble on Dyche and poor players aint gonna Work!

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QUINNPT says...
10:47pm Tue 16 Aug 11

I agree with some of the comments yes today's performance was poor against one of the sides that may get promoted.
I am prepared to give it 13 games before having a go but we do need a striker and why are we playing Jenkins along side Eustace? Similar style players eg defensive midfield players.
Just hope the board have the stomach for a very nervy season whereby on this performance we will be in the bottom 3 most of it. Not a happy hornet.
But will keep on supporting them.

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QUINNPT says...
10:47pm Tue 16 Aug 11

I agree with some of the comments yes today's performance was poor against one of the sides that may get promoted.
I am prepared to give it 13 games before having a go but we do need a striker and why are we playing Jenkins along side Eustace? Similar style players eg defensive midfield players.
Just hope the board have the stomach for a very nervy season whereby on this performance we will be in the bottom 3 most of it. Not a happy hornet.
But will keep on supporting them.

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Yellow blood says...
10:57pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Replace iwelumo with deeney (he should be given a proper go with marv), thompson for doyley, mirfin for mariappa and PLAY THE WIDE PLAYERS OUT WIDE!!

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Foxton1 says...
10:59pm Tue 16 Aug 11

QUINNPT wrote:
I agree with some of the comments yes today's performance was poor against one of the sides that may get promoted.
I am prepared to give it 13 games before having a go but we do need a striker and why are we playing Jenkins along side Eustace? Similar style players eg defensive midfield players.
Just hope the board have the stomach for a very nervy season whereby on this performance we will be in the bottom 3 most of it. Not a happy hornet.
But will keep on supporting them.
Why give it the unlucky 13 games? Basini is an Arsenal fan anyway so wont worry too much about a nervy season as you put it!

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Hornet Cornet says...
11:00pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Come on clappers, those of you who dared to try and shout down myself and Foxton, where are younow? You said I was negative and pessamistic... You now see that we are REALISTIC! Some of you said we should take our comments elsewhere - WHY? We have been proven right, you are the ones living in a dream world, it's you deluded clappers who said how Bassini was great because he had got 7 new players in, all of whom I said he could have pulled from Cassiobury park.

Give over clappers, get a life, admit we were right and give the board and management a tough time. They evidently aren't good enough. Who thought that getting two-left-fEet iweloophole was a good idea?

Angry Cornet

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onlyonerodthomas says...
11:00pm Tue 16 Aug 11

woefull!!we are going to finish bottom i fear.looking at the next fixtures i'm not seeing any points at all.we need a striker asap.we need to try the prince or josh walker instead of jenkins.thompson on the right to have a chance.the body language of the players were awful come 90 mins.no confidence in dyche.he deserves a crack but only till xmas,if results are still poor a change is needed.

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HemelWFC says...
11:04pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Agree with whats been said already! cannot defend, cannot score goals and a lightweight midfield that will struggle to control games = relegation written all over it. Have the same sense of the preverbial when we struggled in the latter stages of Hoffball's reign.
To much upheaval has happened over the summer for WFC to cope with, with to many key personnel going all at once! It's not looking good , but hope the powers at be act decivisely and stongly when the right time comes for the benifit of the club.

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eltonsjohn says...
11:04pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Just back.
Gutted but it's not the end of the world.
I've said it before & will say it again, unfortunately loach is flat footed & is a weak link for the team which does not inspire confidence.
The defence, despite the comments, is not a massive problem - it's centre mid & attack. Sorry , but iwelumo must not start, I honestly believe he will score goals, but only when he comes off the bench for last 15.
Soredell excellent, but we need to buy a decent proven scorer to play with him otherwise we are doomed I fear.
But it's not too late, we do have time to sort this out.
Finally, much though I love the name, Ross Jenkins - too inconsistent for a regular start for me. Please let's try a youngster who is better, cos we've got one.....

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PMJ1966 says...
11:07pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Very poor from 1 to 11. Yes West Ham are going up but the difference between the two sides is not Premiership versus Championship. It was Premiership versus Div1/2 at best. Very concerned. Should have invested some of that 3.5 million in someone who can hit the back of net. Problem is- we don't even look like scoring.

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Foxton1 says...
11:07pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Yes Mr Cornet of course we were right. Useless bankcrupt in charge, manager with no idea,and poor new players. Oh but we have some new yellow seats in the rookery! Get real its a shambles as we said it would be.

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WFC4ever says...
11:10pm Tue 16 Aug 11

I didn't think we were too bad for 45 minutes but yet again a goal out of nothing killed us which suggests certain players lack confidence or even the heart to try and comeback albeit against a very good side as West Ham were.

Sordell again seem to be leading the line well and in defence we were ok again.

Midfield is a big worry..and the bench was very weak!

Also having a statue up front doesn't help who cannot win anything in the air hence any long balls are a total waste of space.

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hemelloyal says...
11:10pm Tue 16 Aug 11

4-0 and west ham didnt break sweat,a bit like iwelumo.Some one should teach him to jump.Doyley can not defend,being loyal to your club does not make you a good footballer,
Sorry to say bankrupt bas and his cheap option of SD is not paying off,Unless something happens soon we could be down before january

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supermikey says...
11:15pm Tue 16 Aug 11

What has Dychy learnt from last season - One of the worst defences in the league and still 4 of the same back 5 - Aidy is NOT a centre back and so for Loach....

Why play 2 holding midfielders - Jenkins is clearly not good enough in this league. Provides nothing

I can't remember a squad that looks so light and poor as this one - OK West Ham are West Ham, but it was poor against Derby - We didn't even stand up to them and compete tonight - Created nothing, apart from a couple of scrambles from set pieces - We look like a team already battered at the end of the season. No goals in 2.5 games. The season MUST start on Saturday, as we won't get anything against Brum and it will be 1 point from 15.

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onlyonerodthomas says...
11:17pm Tue 16 Aug 11

is it too early to say saturdays game at coventry is a 6 pointer relegation battle???


seiously,sec word is safe-pass.someone is taking the urine!!!

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NorthHertsHornet28 says...
11:19pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Iwelumo needs to be dropped,like many fans have said previously,he's a terrible target man,he can hardly get off the floor to challenge for headers and has the turning point of the QE2 ferry! We need a pacey striker who can take people on,along with an attacking midfielder in the same mould,as I feel it's only Sordell who can actually take a defender on and beat them! As for the defence it's just the same old..first game of the season we crumble and give up a lead and today we conceded early and made things even more difficult for ourselves,but we are used to this by now..we like to give teams head starts! However unlike last year,I don't think we have the firepower at the moment to get back into games after going behind! On another note,I mean Doyleys a decent defender and all,but it would be nice to see someone play right back who can actually pass,control and cross a ball when going forward..there's a reason why he's only scored 1 goal! I mean West Hams right back showed us how to attack today..is it really too much to ask Mr Dyche,give someone else a go!?

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WFC4ever says...
11:20pm Tue 16 Aug 11

What did Doyley do so wrong compared to the others?

Or is he the easy target again..

I agree with you about the big statue up front thouh!

Where are the likes of Whicelow and Little P?

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supermikey says...
11:22pm Tue 16 Aug 11

eltonsjohn wrote:
Just back.
Gutted but it's not the end of the world.
I've said it before & will say it again, unfortunately loach is flat footed & is a weak link for the team which does not inspire confidence.
The defence, despite the comments, is not a massive problem - it's centre mid & attack. Sorry , but iwelumo must not start, I honestly believe he will score goals, but only when he comes off the bench for last 15.
Soredell excellent, but we need to buy a decent proven scorer to play with him otherwise we are doomed I fear.
But it's not too late, we do have time to sort this out.
Finally, much though I love the name, Ross Jenkins - too inconsistent for a regular start for me. Please let's try a youngster who is better, cos we've got one.....
You quote "the defence is not a massive problem" - We have leaked 7 goals in 3 games and last season leaked 71 goals - We no longer have Danny Graham

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PMJ1966 says...
11:37pm Tue 16 Aug 11

Bloke called Will Buckley at Brighton who seems alright at taking on defences. Maybe we could bid for him?

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monkhorn says...
11:38pm Tue 16 Aug 11

We need two strikers and a creative centre midfielder. I agree about what's happened to Whichelow as he is exactly what we need. The two wide players are both far too slow. Also if Dyche is going to give Massey a chance then why not Murray who is quality and would excite the crowd. I know it's early and West Ham will beat most teams, but I really fear for us unless Dyche gets a reality check.

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wrecker says...
11:40pm Tue 16 Aug 11

We have recieved 4.5 million for 2 players,probably spent the .5 cant see anymore being spent so it down before Christmas we are dead in the water.

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green4 says...
11:50pm Tue 16 Aug 11

OK, we were up against the best team in the division, but apart from Marv's performance I can find no positives fron tonights performance. I am also starting to see some positives from Forsyth. However our defence was woeful both in defending and their distribution - putting us back under pressure.

Back to my pet subject - if someone has Hornets Player can they watch the game again and tell me how many passes Euseless actually completed out of how many attempts? He and Jenko offer nothing in defence or attack. Euseless was running on empty after 60 minutes.

I said I would give this team 6-8 games but I agree with many posts asking for Whichelow and Thompson to be included in the squad.

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WFC4ever says...
12:00am Wed 17 Aug 11

PMJ1966 wrote:
Bloke called Will Buckley at Brighton who seems alright at taking on defences. Maybe we could bid for him?
Well one game TBF..the bloke is injured I think now.

Green4 is spot on there..

If we can only have 4 subs plus the goalie lets have players who have pace and can fill a number of positions rather than 2 central defenders (were Mariappa and Taylor injury doubts?) and NO midfielders!

I bet in the days when there were only 2-3 subs one would be a midfielder and we have lots at the club!

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Casterbridge says...
12:09am Wed 17 Aug 11

Having seen all three games so far, I am much less despondent than the doom-and-gloomers.
We matched West Ham at times, we even outplayed them at times, but the cutting edge tonight was a combination of defensive mistakes and the clinical finishing of a Premiership side.
Post-match, Dyche told 3CR that CI was being played to hone his match fitness. Sorry, that may be a valid reason to bring him on when we are 2-0 up, but not to start him.
The best thing about tonight's performance was that at no time did our heads drop; we competed right to the end - which is why we conceded the goals in the second half.
Coventry have lost all their games so far; let's make it 4/4. COYH!

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green4 says...
12:23am Wed 17 Aug 11

If CI needs to improve his fitness he should be playing 90 mins of reserve team matches (I understand we played one today and beat Reading 3-0) not 60 minutes of first team matches where we need points.

I guess we wait for the Prem teams to name their 25-man squads for the league and champions league before we know who is available for loan. Harry Kane at Spurs is a highly thought of centre forward and at only 18 he shold be on wages even WFC could afford.

However, a win away at Coventry at the weekend could change all our (my) current negativity.

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WFTTWTFR says...
12:30am Wed 17 Aug 11

Just back and just seen the goals on sky. Just an embarrassment. We might as well have been wearing bibs over West Ham kit in the second half as it was just a training game for them. I don't really buy the line that they're a premiership outfit who are going to get promoted. It's difficult to assess how good they are as we were so clueless and ineffectual that anybody would have beaten us tonight.
Up front, it really would be better to start Deeney and bring Iwelumo on as sub - constant starts aren't going to help him as the crowd have already written him off.
On the subject of the crowd, I'm partial to a bit of gallows humour, but singing "how *** must you be, it's only 4-0" isn't really going to lift the team, is it?
Not too early to regard the Coventry game as a 6 pointer given what I've seen, unfortunately.

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PurpleRalph says...
1:02am Wed 17 Aug 11

It's because they changed ends at the start. We always lose at home when they change ends.

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PurpleRalph says...
1:02am Wed 17 Aug 11

It's because they changed ends at the start. We always lose at home when they change ends.

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SAHornet says...
3:49am Wed 17 Aug 11

PurpleRalph wrote:
It's because they changed ends at the start. We always lose at home when they change ends.
It's how we lost that's so worrying

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Hornet Cornet says...
5:11am Wed 17 Aug 11

Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh

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Watfordwes says...
7:15am Wed 17 Aug 11

the second dyche was appointed the outcome was inevitable in afraid.

The worst and least ambitious appointment we could have made :-(

I hate betting against Watford but I tooknearly 4-1 on us going down and I assure you we ll be a lot shorter now!

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Mick, Bray says...
7:17am Wed 17 Aug 11

Yet again poor defending gives WH an easy early lead! This is an issue which has not gone away since we left the Prem. AM &LD have been ever present and its now time for a change and to give them a wake up call!

From the two games i have seen CI is not the answer to start upfront at the moment. He was very poor. RJ was also ineffective. GM clearly not upto this standard and needs to go out on loan like MS to gain exp and confidence.

On the positive side Sordell looked sharp against a good side.Bring back Weimann upfront to partner Sordell and i think we will be ok. CF & MY look ok signings. CF will only get better. Would like to see him in front of JE with MW out wide on right and MY swapping over to the left etc.

This was always going to be a hard season as we have lost some quality players and good loans. We had a poor second half to last season,poor pre-season and start and things need to change quickly to gain confidence for the players but more importantly they believe in SD!

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allgood says...
7:22am Wed 17 Aug 11

Yes HC 3 Games gone and you are vindicated. Better quit while your'e ahead

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ChrisG85 says...
7:35am Wed 17 Aug 11

Hornet Cornet wrote:
Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh
I'll happily challenge you. 3 games into the season and you're actually writing off a team with 43 games to go? Where is the realism in that? I'll stand up for a team that i support and if that makes me a "happy clapper" then so be it, but i prefer to use the word "supporter"

You want to tell everyone Watford are destined for League 1 football, but as soon as someone says against you, you throw your toys out the pram. Keep it coming, I'll challenge you each time.

Last night's 1st half performance was positive, unlucky to be 2 goals down, deserved to be one goal. The irony of it all was West Ham wasting time during stoppage time to score their 2nd. 2nd Half, was dire. Their midfield tore us apart, it is of a premier league calibre in my opinion and just shows that we aren't ready for anything like that. Our defence looked very scared to go in for a tackle last night, including Dickinson, it even took Eustace a while to slide in. I feel the officials were very "starstruck" last night and even the slightest nudge got WH a freekick.

A few points on the board would be nice but we've got a tough run.

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harry uk says...
7:54am Wed 17 Aug 11

ive seen non league sides in the fa cup compete better against premier sides than we did last night, if Dyche wants to use wage examples how come we didnt beat borehamwood 4-0. At the end of the day we sold or lost our quality and have replaced it with cheap options, manager, players, etc... If you pump a ball aimlessly and the opposition get it without having to work hard its got nothing to do with players wages.
There is so much wrong at Watford its not suprising things are going down the toilet. I have a good view of our glorious leader in the directors box and its plain to see he hasnt and never will have a clue. All the new entourage that have breezed into the directors box are just posing and living the corporate lifestyle. Dyche will be gone early if nothing changes and the panic button will be pushed.A video screen is not that important so why did we get one when we had one, astro turf round the outside of the pitch..? really?, and nice red seats and a tannoy system, not at the top of my shopping list..

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Hornet Cornet says...
9:23am Wed 17 Aug 11

ChrisG85 wrote:
Hornet Cornet wrote: Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh
I'll happily challenge you. 3 games into the season and you're actually writing off a team with 43 games to go? Where is the realism in that? I'll stand up for a team that i support and if that makes me a "happy clapper" then so be it, but i prefer to use the word "supporter" You want to tell everyone Watford are destined for League 1 football, but as soon as someone says against you, you throw your toys out the pram. Keep it coming, I'll challenge you each time. Last night's 1st half performance was positive, unlucky to be 2 goals down, deserved to be one goal. The irony of it all was West Ham wasting time during stoppage time to score their 2nd. 2nd Half, was dire. Their midfield tore us apart, it is of a premier league calibre in my opinion and just shows that we aren't ready for anything like that. Our defence looked very scared to go in for a tackle last night, including Dickinson, it even took Eustace a while to slide in. I feel the officials were very "starstruck" last night and even the slightest nudge got WH a freekick. A few points on the board would be nice but we've got a tough run.
Stop throwing your own rattles out your moses basket, open your eyes and realise the mess we're in. You keep trying to super-analyse every facet of watford and their play. You should employ a holistic approach and understadn the management, board and players are largely junk, hence why we're going down to League 1.

You're the sort of person that thinks the bernard manning was good for society. True that is.

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harrowboy says...
9:27am Wed 17 Aug 11

Agree with much of the above but let's get real. On last nights evidence WH will runaway with this league & for much of the game they were only in 3rd gear!!
That said I thought we did well in the first half & it was only their second goal in added time that made it a non contest. We started the second half brightly but were always chasing the game & therefore likely to concede more goals on the break which is what happened. The stats show that for all their possession we had more attempts on goal - although accept that West Ham waere treating it as a practice match.
Agree AM is not a centre half but he has pace which Taylor needs along side - not sure Mirfin will provide that. Still think the main problem for defence is Loach who does not inspire any confidence at all & appears to have learnt nothing in the last 12 months. With their midfield we were always going to struggle but Jenkins is clearly not the answer. Hopefully a Cleverly/Mutch type loan is in the pipeline.
Believe goals will come but hopefully before confidence goes. Impressed that the lads kept going to the end. to finish on a positive note I think Craig Forsyth could be a real gem.

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harrowboy says...
9:30am Wed 17 Aug 11

Agree with much of the above but let's get real. On last nights evidence WH will runaway with this league & for much of the game they were only in 3rd gear!!
That said I thought we did well in the first half & it was only their second goal in added time that made it a non contest. We started the second half brightly but were always chasing the game & therefore likely to concede more goals on the break which is what happened. The stats show that for all their possession we had more attempts on goal - although accept that West Ham waere treating it as a practice match.
Agree AM is not a centre half but he has pace which Taylor needs along side - not sure Mirfin will provide that. Still think the main problem for defence is Loach who does not inspire any confidence at all & appears to have learnt nothing in the last 12 months. With their midfield we were always going to struggle but Jenkins is clearly not the answer. Hopefully a Cleverly/Mutch type loan is in the pipeline.
Believe goals will come but hopefully before confidence goes. Impressed that the lads kept going to the end. to finish on a positive note I think Craig Forsyth could be a real gem.

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harrowboy says...
9:32am Wed 17 Aug 11

Agree with much of the above but let's get real. On last nights evidence WH will runaway with this league & for much of the game they were only in 3rd gear!!
That said I thought we did well in the first half & it was only their second goal in added time that made it a non contest. We started the second half brightly but were always chasing the game & therefore likely to concede more goals on the break which is what happened. The stats show that for all their possession we had more attempts on goal - although accept that West Ham waere treating it as a practice match.
Agree AM is not a centre half but he has pace which Taylor needs along side - not sure Mirfin will provide that. Still think the main problem for defence is Loach who does not inspire any confidence at all & appears to have learnt nothing in the last 12 months. With their midfield we were always going to struggle but Jenkins is clearly not the answer. Hopefully a Cleverly/Mutch type loan is in the pipeline.
Believe goals will come but hopefully before confidence goes. Impressed that the lads kept going to the end. to finish on a positive note I think Craig Forsyth could be a real gem.

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Mick, Bray says...
9:41am Wed 17 Aug 11

After 3 games the usual suspects(who post under new names) are predicting we are going down. Are you the lemons who said the same for the last two seasons under MM and also wanted him sacked?

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tonupchris says...
9:52am Wed 17 Aug 11

Hornet Cornet wrote:
Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh
I'll challenge both of you.
I find it bizarre that you actually seem to enjoy the fact we've had a bad start. We've played 3 games and that's it we're down, we'll never win a game. Why do you go to football because surely you can't enjoy it?
The season so far. Burnley away. Good point, annoying to be 2 up and lose the lead but it happens to everybody. Derby. Played well, created chances and on another day would have won easily.
West Ham. Matched them for 45 minutes which obviously isn't enough but look at the two teams especially the midfield and attack. Taylor, Collison, Noble, Parker, Nolan and Cole. Two England internationals and all of them would get in to sides in top half of the premier league.
This is not to say we don't need to address certain things.
We need a goalscorer. Problem is proven goalscorers don't come cheap. Weimann would be a good choice. Iwelumo looks terrible but apparently isn't fit so why not play him in the reserve game the other day.
Two holding midfielders doesn't work. Give Walker a go.
Don't get me on to Doyley. The man robs a living.
Having said all of that i don't believe it's all doom and gloom and unlike Hornet Cornet and Foxton (by no means the only ones) there are a lot of positives. We have a left back that can tackle and is left footed! Looks a good buy. Forsyth. Good in the air and last night seemed to want to run at people which is great. Excellent left foot. We still have Tiny. Sordell seems to have matured in to an excellent player. With help could be the next big thing. Talented youngsters by the bucket load. Massey looked ok last night and showed enough to say he might be worth a go. Whichelow looks like he will be a major player in the next couple of years if not much sooner. Murray is the one everybody is talking about and certainly impressed me in the few times I've seen him. Thompson should be at right back in front of Doyley. and there are plenty more in the pipeline. As i said, we could do with a striker and probably a creative Central midfielder but maybe one of the youngsters could do this but we can't play Jenkins next to Eustace all year.
So not all doom and gloom is it. How about writing something positive for a change instead of the usual woe is us post.
Interested to know what you do when we score? Do you celebrate like everybody else or are you thinking how you can turn it in to a negative.
I know you write most of this tongue in cheek to get a reaction but it starts others off and it snowballs.
Be positive, support your team and remember there are still 43 games to go.
We will be fine

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Hornet123456 says...
9:53am Wed 17 Aug 11

I must say that it is very disappointing that Hornet Cornet seems to be happy when we lose because it vindicates his negativity.

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Hornet123456 says...
9:53am Wed 17 Aug 11

I must say that it is very disappointing that Hornet Cornet seems to be happy when we lose because it vindicates his negativity.

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Foxton1 says...
10:06am Wed 17 Aug 11

There is no way anyone is happy with this start but it was always on the cards! Cant not replace players or bring in bargain basement and hope for the best. There was money but it seems our Arsenal supporting owner wont part with it!

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jasonwatford says...
10:14am Wed 17 Aug 11

Just back from Holiday....2-2 Burnley we all would have accepted that at the start....Against Derby i hear we played well without scoring and these things happen .... my first game last night and it was not good. Loach is not good enough and he will cost us points this year we cant afford to lose. Doyley needs to be replaced with Adam Thompson as he is the future and i think would work better with the impressive Forsyth who i liked a lot. Carl Dickinson also looks a real good player. Ross Jenkins needs to be replaced as he is not good enough and as for Big Chris Ilummo whatever he calls himself that was worst centre forward play ive seen in a watford shirt since Steve Butler played for Watford. I hear on the radio dyche says lay off big chris as he is not fit and still injured ... Why on earth are you playing him then when you have deeney on the bench who im sure would give 100% if asked to play that roll. Marvin played ok but you can see he feels the pressure of goal scoring is down to him alone. Mark Yeats i didnt see much to be fair but looks like he can be a bit moody player but not always a bad thing. Things need to change asap as if you sart in bottom half before you know it it is xmas and gets difficult to get out of. Please dont let me watch Loach all season i just cant stand how he never comes off his line..cant see the ball from 20 yards out...shouts at his defence only after a goal has been scored...do i need to go on.

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jasonwatford says...
10:14am Wed 17 Aug 11

Just back from Holiday....2-2 Burnley we all would have accepted that at the start....Against Derby i hear we played well without scoring and these things happen .... my first game last night and it was not good. Loach is not good enough and he will cost us points this year we cant afford to lose. Doyley needs to be replaced with Adam Thompson as he is the future and i think would work better with the impressive Forsyth who i liked a lot. Carl Dickinson also looks a real good player. Ross Jenkins needs to be replaced as he is not good enough and as for Big Chris Ilummo whatever he calls himself that was worst centre forward play ive seen in a watford shirt since Steve Butler played for Watford. I hear on the radio dyche says lay off big chris as he is not fit and still injured ... Why on earth are you playing him then when you have deeney on the bench who im sure would give 100% if asked to play that roll. Marvin played ok but you can see he feels the pressure of goal scoring is down to him alone. Mark Yeats i didnt see much to be fair but looks like he can be a bit moody player but not always a bad thing. Things need to change asap as if you sart in bottom half before you know it it is xmas and gets difficult to get out of. Please dont let me watch Loach all season i just cant stand how he never comes off his line..cant see the ball from 20 yards out...shouts at his defence only after a goal has been scored...do i need to go on.

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steveinmk says...
10:37am Wed 17 Aug 11

Also happy to take up the challenge, but much common sense has already been spoken in the last few comments. To start with the obvious - we got stuffed and were outclassed last night. However, the line between success and failure is often very thin indeed. If Robert Green hadn't made an excellent save from Sordell we could have been back on level terms quite early on, and then if Iwelumo's run had been timed slightly differently and/or Sordell's cut back had been placed a few inches further forward, it coud have been a simple tap-in and the world would have looked a different place. Of course they had their chances as well, and in the end it could have been 6 or 7, but that's my point - if we'd have ridden our luck and nicked an underserved 2-1 win, Dyche might have been the new messiah this morning.

It's easy to point out the faults (stand up all those who were slagging off Danny Graham when he went through a barren spell in his first season), but the doom-mongers don't have anything that suggests a viable alternative strategy. We've made six new signings and past experience suggets that if three of them come good we'll be doing OK. We've made some excellent signings in the last few years (Graham, Taylor, Williamson, Cowie) as well as some duds (Severin, Travner) - but of these, only Williamson really showed emphatically in the first few games that he was a real star in the making. So I think there is promise in the new bunch - and even though Iwelumo had a shocker last night, just slagging him off isn't going to make him a better player.

Of course there are things that could be done - Jenkins is a decent understudy for Eustace and a possible replacement in a couple of years time, but we desperately need some creativity in centre-midfield. Loans may be forthcoming, but at some point Walker, Mingoia and Buaben should get some opportunity to show what they can do (and arguably one of them should have been on the bench last night). But even though Iwelumo perhaps shouldn't have been selected last night, Dyche did at least pull him off and try something else without leaving it too late.

Calls to splash some cash are simply naive - where's the evidence that Watford have ever had real value for money from a 'big money' signing - who's top of your list, chaps? Ellington? Sadler? Baardsen?

This could be a long hard season - and the lack of goals is a concern. But this squad should still be able to secure a mid-table spot ... and that's our natural 'home' at the moment. Password 'near-good' - maybe at the moment 'near-adequate' is more accurate.

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steveinmk says...
10:38am Wed 17 Aug 11

Also happy to take up the challenge, but much common sense has already been spoken in the last few comments. To start with the obvious - we got stuffed and were outclassed last night. However, the line between success and failure is often very thin indeed. If Robert Green hadn't made an excellent save from Sordell we could have been back on level terms quite early on, and then if Iwelumo's run had been timed slightly differently and/or Sordell's cut back had been placed a few inches further forward, it coud have been a simple tap-in and the world would have looked a different place. Of course they had their chances as well, and in the end it could have been 6 or 7, but that's my point - if we'd have ridden our luck and nicked an underserved 2-1 win, Dyche might have been the new messiah this morning.

It's easy to point out the faults (stand up all those who were slagging off Danny Graham when he went through a barren spell in his first season), but the doom-mongers don't have anything that suggests a viable alternative strategy. We've made six new signings and past experience suggets that if three of them come good we'll be doing OK. We've made some excellent signings in the last few years (Graham, Taylor, Williamson, Cowie) as well as some duds (Severin, Travner) - but of these, only Williamson really showed emphatically in the first few games that he was a real star in the making. So I think there is promise in the new bunch - and even though Iwelumo had a shocker last night, just slagging him off isn't going to make him a better player.

Of course there are things that could be done - Jenkins is a decent understudy for Eustace and a possible replacement in a couple of years time, but we desperately need some creativity in centre-midfield. Loans may be forthcoming, but at some point Walker, Mingoia and Buaben should get some opportunity to show what they can do (and arguably one of them should have been on the bench last night). But even though Iwelumo perhaps shouldn't have been selected last night, Dyche did at least pull him off and try something else without leaving it too late.

Calls to splash some cash are simply naive - where's the evidence that Watford have ever had real value for money from a 'big money' signing - who's top of your list, chaps? Ellington? Sadler? Baardsen?

This could be a long hard season - and the lack of goals is a concern. But this squad should still be able to secure a mid-table spot ... and that's our natural 'home' at the moment. Password 'near-good' - maybe at the moment 'near-adequate' is more accurate.

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Andrew1963 says...
10:45am Wed 17 Aug 11

As a season ticket holder I will assess our progress at Hallowen. Due to early august start i have missed both home games, i wonder if that is why we have not scored in first two home matches. Never fear i will be there for Birmingham. Lets hope for a West Midlands 6 pointer at Coventry. Glad to see the inclusion of a left footed left back is reaping the rewards expected. i think the lesson is the 'back 9' is more iomportant when avoiding relegation. it looks like the team are continuing their poor form from last March when we had a terrible last quarter to the season with Graham, Buckley, Cowie,etc)

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WFC4ever says...
10:53am Wed 17 Aug 11

. I think calling for whole-sale changes already including sacking Dyche is VERY harsh but its clear we need some more quality/place in the team to help others who have done well like Sordell/Yeates. A scrappy win on Saturday would be better for confidence but then its Birmingham..

I wonder what is up with Whichelow...

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tonupchris says...
10:57am Wed 17 Aug 11

Nice to see some well balanced posts from a few people at last especially from Steveinmk and ChrisG85. Just proves there are some sesible people on here.

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GB1975 says...
11:36am Wed 17 Aug 11

Hornet Cornet wrote:
Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh
You are just so negative, I dont think people actually like replying because you cannot engage in civil conversation.
Anyone who tries to put a different perspective is a 'Happy clapper' - do you just wheel this out because you cannot admit you might be wrong - "We are the worst team ever, if you dont agree 100% you are a happer clapper then". What does this make you then? a Meloncholy Wally or perhaps a Glum Bum.
To be clear I dont think anyone is saying everything is great and we are going to get promoted, there are enough reasons why this is unlikely. But to write someone off after three games?? To write off seven players a manager and a coaching team? Lets face it your track record of predictions and telling people to 'Wake up' is awful - possible the worst predictor ever. You were just as negative two years ago you did not want to give Malky any time - your 'predictions' were WRONG. Last year even more WRONG. The manager was better than you said, we did not finish bottom as you so confidently said. It is a bit ironic to say 'I told you so' when you are like the boy who cried wolf - people have just stopped listening to your inane drivel.
BTW - if we get relagated at the end of the year it does not make me wrong - I have not said it will not happen - it might or might not. You have talked about a holistic approach, well taking this attitude I have thought about this and taking the football club as a whole I know some short term loss is not so bad if in the long term the club is stronger, with the development of youth and development of our staff it will be. We have been relagated before and come back stronger.

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CroxleyClaret says...
11:53am Wed 17 Aug 11

I did warn you chaps about Big Chris back in July, but was derided as being a "bitter Claret" maybe you'll listen to me next time - see below

CroxleyClaret wrote:
Sorry to dissapoint chaps, but you've been sold a pup! Big Chris can hold the ball up well, but doesn't work the channels. He's not quick, and works exclusively in a a 20x20 box, which inevitably leads to your team resorting to hoof-ball. 1 away goal last season is not prolific - can't remember who he scored that against?!? Having said that, he did score an excellent hat-trick against PNE last season. I wish him well (apart from 6 August) because he seems like a decent pro, but he's not a replacement for Danny Graham. You have been warned....Up the Clarets!

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Dr Johnny Fever says...
12:01pm Wed 17 Aug 11

I'm not too upset about the WH game, when was the last time we beat them? I'll be more upset if we dont get anything out of the Coventry game as I think they will be down the bottom end of the table come the end of the season and I'll take a point now for the Birmingham game, as for Loach in goal, who have we got thats better? remember the Brighton cup game from last season without Loach in goal.

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Hornet Cornet says...
12:24pm Wed 17 Aug 11

GB1975, if you've got any sort of memory, which you evidently haven't, you can check back to pre-season last year when I said we would end up 19th, and we ended up 14th, which isn't too far wrong actually. Now, by my reckoning, ending up 19th doesn't normally get you relegated, so you're wrong.

As Foxton said, we're deeply unhappy at watford's start BUT we predicted (correctly) that this would happen. Does this make us bad supporters or does it just mean that we can see things for what they are?

Don't get me wrong, it's good being a bit optimistic but I would much rather highlight the issues which are facing the club (and me and Foxton have done so correctly) yet we still get barraged for being negative, even when we are the ones who are actually CORRECT?

Please get your facts straight and, once you realise the club is in a deep deep mess and that there is no real light that can be seen, only then will you see that we need major change at WFC.

HC

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Hornet Cornet says...
12:26pm Wed 17 Aug 11

GB1975, if you've got any sort of memory, which you evidently haven't, you can check back to pre-season last year when I said we would end up 19th, and we ended up 14th, which isn't too far wrong actually. Now, by my reckoning, ending up 19th doesn't normally get you relegated, so you're wrong.

As Foxton said, we're deeply unhappy at watford's start BUT we predicted (correctly) that this would happen. Does this make us bad supporters or does it just mean that we can see things for what they are?

Don't get me wrong, it's good being a bit optimistic but I would much rather highlight the issues which are facing the club (and me and Foxton have done so correctly) yet we still get barraged for being negative, even when we are the ones who are actually CORRECT?

Please get your facts straight and, once you realise the club is in a deep deep mess and that there is no real light that can be seen, only then will you see that we need major change at WFC.

HC

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Hornet Cornet says...
12:26pm Wed 17 Aug 11

GB1975, if you've got any sort of memory, which you evidently haven't, you can check back to pre-season last year when I said we would end up 19th, and we ended up 14th, which isn't too far wrong actually. Now, by my reckoning, ending up 19th doesn't normally get you relegated, so you're wrong.

As Foxton said, we're deeply unhappy at watford's start BUT we predicted (correctly) that this would happen. Does this make us bad supporters or does it just mean that we can see things for what they are?

Don't get me wrong, it's good being a bit optimistic but I would much rather highlight the issues which are facing the club (and me and Foxton have done so correctly) yet we still get barraged for being negative, even when we are the ones who are actually CORRECT?

Please get your facts straight and, once you realise the club is in a deep deep mess and that there is no real light that can be seen, only then will you see that we need major change at WFC.

HC

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grahamwfc says...
12:38pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Casterbridge wrote:
Having seen all three games so far, I am much less despondent than the doom-and-gloomers.
We matched West Ham at times, we even outplayed them at times, but the cutting edge tonight was a combination of defensive mistakes and the clinical finishing of a Premiership side.
Post-match, Dyche told 3CR that CI was being played to hone his match fitness. Sorry, that may be a valid reason to bring him on when we are 2-0 up, but not to start him.
The best thing about tonight's performance was that at no time did our heads drop; we competed right to the end - which is why we conceded the goals in the second half.
Coventry have lost all their games so far; let's make it 4/4. COYH!
Sensible &accurate post amongst the doom mongers. We were beated by a far superior team than we will come up against most weeks in this division.
We need a keeper, a goal scorer ( may be 2 as Sordell will be a name noted by verey team we play & the watching scouts) & a creative midfielder - that will be Sean Murray!
Deeney must start Saturday up front not wide. Coventry with defeats & shipped 2 goals in injury team a la Watford are there for the taking.
For all you Mariappa knockers - absolute Muppets - !! 2nd best player in a yellow shirt last night
COYH

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Oracledave says...
12:50pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Some random responses to the comments posted thus far.

1. Whatever the performances only an imbecile would judge full season potential after three games. In order to assess properly you need to know what the other likely strugglers are doing. Ten games is a reasonable bench mark.

2. Nonetheless, there are some areas where early indications suggest reinforcements would help. During the entire 2009/10 season and the first half of 2010/11 we were blessed with quality attacking midfielders who weighed in with goals. We are not going to buy so we must chase the loan market again. This seems to be influenced by contacts, so let's hope Dychey has a few !

3. Similarly a striker on loan would be useful. I liked Weimann, he looked like a quick improver. Let's hope prospects are not affected by the loss of the 'Caledonian connection'.

4. Lastly for now, some may recall the idiotic 'Rick Almighty' who used to post relentlessly negative comments. He has disappeared, but I suspect now resurrected in the guise of 'Hornet Cornet' or someone similar. My suspicion is that we have a Luton fan engaged in mischief. Either way not really worth responding to brainless drivel.

OD out !

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Hornet Cornet says...
1:50pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Oracle Dave,

You mistake REALITY for negativity. No wonder you haven't got any friends.

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Hornet Cornet says...
2:03pm Wed 17 Aug 11

OracleDave,

You mistake reality for negativity.

Grow some cojones

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Hornet Cornet says...
2:22pm Wed 17 Aug 11

OracleDave,

You mistake reality for negativity.

Grow some cojones

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hogweed says...
2:44pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Oracle Dave please DO NOT sign yourself out as OD out as that is copying me and I find that very annoying!

Loach was appaling last night. He is the worst keeper I have ever seen in following Watford for over 30 years.

I see no one scoring bar Sordell who is playing really well. We also have to have a creative midfielder.

But the Hammers were so much better than us so perhaps all is not lost. They are a superb championship team.

Hog out

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hogweed says...
2:45pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Oracle Dave please DO NOT sign yourself out as OD out as that is copying me and I find that very annoying!

Loach was appaling last night. He is the worst keeper I have ever seen in following Watford for over 30 years.

I see no one scoring bar Sordell who is playing really well. We also have to have a creative midfielder.

But the Hammers were so much better than us so perhaps all is not lost. They are a superb championship team.

Hog out

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Hornet Cornet says...
2:45pm Wed 17 Aug 11

OracleDave,

You mistake reality for negativity.

Grow some cojones

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Hornet123456 says...
5:05pm Wed 17 Aug 11

I agree with Oracle Dave whole-heartedly.

Horn out

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Oracledave says...
5:05pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Once again the main points are missed or ignored ! I will re-iterate.

There is no proper version of 'reality' after three games. Only after (about) ten games can a preliminary assessment be made of prospects for the remainder of the season.

So, here is my challenge to you and all others - stay neutral until after the Southamption game. At that point we can all have 'realistic' ( albeit maybe differing) views.

Oh and Hog - I was using radio to communicate professionally long before
cell phones were invented and 'out' is the standard military sign off. But I will desist if it upsets you !

OD Gone

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Hornet123456 says...
5:05pm Wed 17 Aug 11

I agree with Oracle Dave whole-heartedly.

Horn out

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Oracledave says...
5:05pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Once again the main points are missed or ignored ! I will re-iterate.

There is no proper version of 'reality' after three games. Only after (about) ten games can a preliminary assessment be made of prospects for the remainder of the season.

So, here is my challenge to you and all others - stay neutral until after the Southamption game. At that point we can all have 'realistic' ( albeit maybe differing) views.

Oh and Hog - I was using radio to communicate professionally long before
cell phones were invented and 'out' is the standard military sign off. But I will desist if it upsets you !

OD Gone

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Oracledave says...
5:19pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Once again the main points are missed or ignored ! I will re-iterate.

There is no proper version of 'reality' after three games. Only after (about) ten games can a preliminary assessment be made of prospects for the remainder of the season. To give you an example ; after three games last season Scunthorpe were 13th on 4 points.

So, here is my challenge to you and all others - stay neutral until after the Southamption game. At that point we can all have 'realistic' ( albeit maybe differing) views.

Hornet Cornet - I'll leave you to speak 'cojones' I'll stick with synapses.

Oh and Hog - I was using radio to communicate professionally long before
cell phones were invented and 'out' is the standard military sign off. But I will desist if it upsets you !

OD Gone

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jimbuctu says...
7:03pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Hornet Cornet wrote:
Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh
I'd like to do more than challenge you. I'd like to set one for you.

Obviously most people on here are not stupid so they can no doubt see where you're coming from. I do find your posts naive and at times disgraceful though.
Anyway, what I would like to know is exactly what you think we should do about this doom you preach.
Below are four options. You can choose any or all of them. What would you do?

Sack the manager: Cost? £500K? More? Who would you get in without upsetting the budget too much?

Sack the board: Graham Taylor? You can sack him if you like but I wouldn't go to the next game if you do. Bassini? Well, he's a good as we've got. The others are people with good track records.

Find investment: I'd hazard a wild guess we've tried to do this for the last decade or so.

Borrow money and spend it on players: Banks wouldn't lend us anything. We're a loss making business so our model has to be based on making a profit from player sales just to pay the bills – something we have been superb at recently (AY, MW, DG, WB, MK)
If you can’t commit to any of the above then accept the club needs our help and that means our support.

The basic fact is that we are a small club with little prospect of booming into a big one. We have a small catchment area and London next door. We support the club knowing that and, personally, I'd far rather the odd unexpected epic promotion season with youth products we've developed than buying up dozens of stars and losing our identity.

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kevhenderson says...
7:03pm Wed 17 Aug 11

One for the statisticians out there. When did we last lose a home game by four goals? If my memory serves me right, even in our most recent premier season, only two teams beat us by more than one goal at home; Liverpool and Everton. I can't remember a worse recent home performance, other than perhaps Barnsley a couple of seasons ago when we lost 3-0. I walked out after an hour to begin my 100 mile journey home.

I recognise that West ham are a strong team, but losing 4-0 at home is a disaster. We will continue to struggle up front whilst Iwelumo continues to be played. I know Scotland aren't very good, but it is hard to imagine how he ever played football at international level.

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kevhenderson says...
7:04pm Wed 17 Aug 11

One for the statisticians out there. When did we last lose a home game by four goals? If my memory serves me right, even in our most recent premier season, only two teams beat us by more than one goal at home; Liverpool and Everton. I can't remember a worse recent home performance, other than perhaps Barnsley a couple of seasons ago when we lost 3-0. I walked out after an hour to begin my 100 mile journey home.

I recognise that West ham are a strong team, but losing 4-0 at home is a disaster. We will continue to struggle up front whilst Iwelumo continues to be played. I know Scotland aren't very good, but it is hard to imagine how he ever played football at international level.

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Abbots hornet says...
8:35pm Wed 17 Aug 11

This game was always going to be a real tough one Watford played pretty well in the first half I thought Sordell was excellent and also Forsyth looked like he could be a useful acquisition!We have to be realistic and there are plenty of teams similar to us in this division.However Iwelumo was useless last night if he is not fit we should have played Deeney up front he didn't win any headers and moved like an oil tanker.The Watford fans expect more than he delivered last night and he deserved to be sarcastically cheered off it can only improve for him as an experienced pro he should be ashamed of that performance and donate his wages to a charity.How does Jenkins get in the team week in week out?He never does anything positive has no attacking zest to his play and goes missing for large chunks of matches Walker should be given a chance he can pass and shoot basic qualities that Jenkins will never have.Massey should be farmed out to a non league team to learn the game not sit on our bench.Can't bring myself to talk about Doyley and Loach this week!Still think we will be ok but ifIwelumo doesn't improve we will have to get another forward before the window shuts

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watmall says...
8:40pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Agree with most of the comments from last nights game; however there are one or two points I think need a mention. Big Sam A is a very asute manager, in that he works the referee via his players, Nolan was constaintly talking to the Ref, within the first 3 minutes Carlton Cole got a free kick from a tackle by A M (Cole a big strong player) went down like a sack of potatos (resulting in a free kick, which then became a corner then goal) funny how he was then able to brush A M away therafter.Then there was the time wasting in various stages of the game causing frustration all round. West Ham are a Top Team most will struggle against them. It is early days and I do think C Iwelumo is not good enough. I also think Troy Deeny would be better starting (he can read the game OMI) young Gavin needs to either come on in the first or second half (45 mins) his pace is an asset; plus once he starts to get a few goals I think he would be a majour prospect.

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TaylorMadeArmy says...
8:52pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Okay, stats fans, new forum member TaylorMadeArmy is coming to your rescue...

Our last 4-0 home defeat was 3 Oct 2009 v Cardiff City. It included that freaky goal from the halfway-line that got caught by the wind. We got revenge last season with that 4-1 Xmas hol' home drubbing of our Welsh friends. Notable also as the only game last season when we were awarded a penalty - 2, in fact: the first was missed by Danny G and the second put away by the same fellow. Good work, Danny.

One for the oldies: a four-goal defeat that sticks out in my mind, from the very dim and distant past - a 4-0 home drubbing by Glenn Hoddle's silky-skilled Swindon Town in the early 1990s. Ouch.

And in the more recent past, I still shudder at the 5-1 mauling Croydon Palace inflicted on us on a freezing Saturday at the Vic in January 2004. I had to go to a 30th birthday party straight after. I was not a happy TaylorMadeArmy that day, I can tell you.

Talking of pens, Coventry away in the 2009/10 season was the last time we were awarded an away spot-kick, which Danny G stuck away in a 4-0 win for the Hornets. So, 4-0 away wins aren't ALL bad. :-)

That's enough figures, stats fans.

See you at the Ricoh!

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Hornet Cornet says...
9:25pm Wed 17 Aug 11

jimbuctu wrote:
Hornet Cornet wrote:
Nobody fancy challenging me and foxton again? Funny that eh
I'd like to do more than challenge you. I'd like to set one for you.

Obviously most people on here are not stupid so they can no doubt see where you're coming from. I do find your posts naive and at times disgraceful though.
Anyway, what I would like to know is exactly what you think we should do about this doom you preach.
Below are four options. You can choose any or all of them. What would you do?

Sack the manager: Cost? £500K? More? Who would you get in without upsetting the budget too much?

Sack the board: Graham Taylor? You can sack him if you like but I wouldn't go to the next game if you do. Bassini? Well, he's a good as we've got. The others are people with good track records.

Find investment: I'd hazard a wild guess we've tried to do this for the last decade or so.

Borrow money and spend it on players: Banks wouldn't lend us anything. We're a loss making business so our model has to be based on making a profit from player sales just to pay the bills – something we have been superb at recently (AY, MW, DG, WB, MK)
If you can’t commit to any of the above then accept the club needs our help and that means our support.

The basic fact is that we are a small club with little prospect of booming into a big one. We have a small catchment area and London next door. We support the club knowing that and, personally, I'd far rather the odd unexpected epic promotion season with youth products we've developed than buying up dozens of stars and losing our identity.
Jimbuctu,

I like your post - I'll be honest and say that I think we sold our only options of escape over the summer.

I do think we're losing identity anyway my buying up Scottish players and the purchase of Iwelumo does smack of desperation to me - in my opinion he is another Ellington.

I'll always support Watford and always want us to do well, all I have done is state what I believe to be the truth.

What does the club do to survive? Sell Loach for £1m-£2m as I am sure we can bring youth ones through, sell Iwelumo to anyone who'll have him and bring in Smudger or Le Fondre, and maybe try and be a feeder club for a larger one somewhere.

HC

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wrecker says...
9:47pm Wed 17 Aug 11

In the bottom 3 now and with 0 point on saturday at Coventry soon be bottom.

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WFC4ever says...
9:57pm Wed 17 Aug 11

I'd say give the young players a chance if the more experienced pros don't perform but we must put great pressure on them and expect certain performances straight away.

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steveinmk says...
10:55pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Well, well - encouraging signs of serious debate replacing mindless abuse! Huge thanks to Jimbuctu for putting some specifics on to some of the earlier generalities, and fair play to HC for a measured response.

I'd still say that most posters are agreed on the reality and the nature of the challenges that confront us - the accusations of negativity arise from criticising the faults without suggesting any realistic solutions. And while it's good to see a constructive response, the 'HC master plan' isn't that different from what we've got at the moment.

Iwelumo may turn out to be a poor buy, but he'll be a lot cheaper than Ellington - and it's only three games. I seem to recall that after three games Martin Taylor looked slow, unfit, lacking match practice and unable to jump - but things did change a bit a few months on.

The reality is that Iwelumo had a poor game last night. The negativity is to believe that he'll never get any better. They're not the same thing.

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Hornet Cornet says...
11:27pm Wed 17 Aug 11

Fair points old boy, my problem with Iwelumo is that I have never really rated him at any level and, at this stage of his career, I can't see him becoming any good BUT I could be proved wrong. There aren't any plan b's unfortunately - maybe get more youth teamers pulled thru?
Wish Dyche could get a decent number 2 to guide him...

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allgood says...
9:06am Thu 18 Aug 11

Remember the first season back in the championship after relegation under Boothroyd? Everyone was happy because we were winning. My workmate couldn't understand why I was moaning about the performances. I told him because we are playing badly and our luck would run out. In the end the results started to match the performances.
So far this season we havn't played that badly. If we get behind the team the results will turn. If we get on their backs performances will match the early results. If we support the team and we do end up going down at least we can say we didn't contribute towards relegation.

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Foxton1 says...
10:26pm Thu 18 Aug 11

allgood wrote:
Remember the first season back in the championship after relegation under Boothroyd? Everyone was happy because we were winning. My workmate couldn't understand why I was moaning about the performances. I told him because we are playing badly and our luck would run out. In the end the results started to match the performances.
So far this season we havn't played that badly. If we get behind the team the results will turn. If we get on their backs performances will match the early results. If we support the team and we do end up going down at least we can say we didn't contribute towards relegation.
Rubbish talk! I will get behind the team but we lose to Coventry and Dyche has to go!

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watfordal says...
10:21am Fri 19 Aug 11

Don't really know what to say after Tuesday. Hopelessly outclassed by the end of the game, which is fair enough given the value of the players in the two teams, but the goals we gave away were abysmal. Whatever the problem is with the back 5, it's been pretty much the same unit for a couple of seasons now, and if anything they look more porous than ever. If MM and SD couldn't sort it, then something needs to be done, and the solution is NOT inJenkins and Eustace shielding them cos that plainly doesn't work. Having slagged RJ off after Derby game, he wasn't actually too bad v WHU, but we have to have a central midfielder who can create something beyond 30 yard balls for MS to chase and CI to look at and decide not to bother with.

MS was outstanding H1 on Tuesday, but he won't give the simple ball sometimes, and tends to lsoe possession when he shouldn't , but I won't criticise our best prospect too much. Forsyth gets better and contributes more every game, he could yet mature into a very good player. We simply have to get soemthing out of the Ricoh 2mrrw, to instill a bit of confidence, and in the vague hope of attracting one or two semi decent palyers on loan, otherwise the season is going to be a ghastly one to behold. SD will have to ring the changes if he sticks with the same starting line up and we get nothing from the game.
I'm also very bothered by our style of play. It is completely one dimensional, and when things aren't going our way and we're lsoing possession too easily, there seems to be no flexibility, playing 5 across the back, or 5 in midfield, or anything. We just carry on as we were, bar the daring tactic of Yeates calling Forsyth to swap wings. We're going to need a bit more creativity, and a bit more thoughtfulness in how we make the most of our very limited resources. I fear we're not capable of that.

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