'We want all the facts before deciding on Deeney' (From Watford Observer)

jasonwatford wrote:
Whatever we think Troy ia an asset to the club and worth money..even if he comes back goes out on loan maybe then sell him ??

True watford fan wrote:
he would have been worth 500-700, now its massively reduced. Our new owners wouldn't really be fussed over 500,000. i just dont think he's worth the hassle

Noodlehornet wrote:
I believe in giving people a chance. However, his people have had weeks to put out a message of remorse. His brother hasn't helped him at all on Twitter. I really want to see him come good, but I get the feeling that it won't be with us. If the owners see a different side to him, please let us know...

corbindallas wrote:

jasonwatford wrote:
Whatever we think Troy ia an asset to the club and worth money..even if he comes back goes out on loan maybe then sell him ??

No Troy is not an asset, he is a thug and hooligan who is in jail for kicking someone in the head. I can't even believe the club are stating they need to know all the facts first and are in comms with him for this. He was tried and convicted by the judicial system end off. This smacks of penny pinching, if this was a fan a life ban would have been issued before their feet touched the ground, if he is not sacked this will be a very sad day for Watford Football Club supporting someone who clearly has brought the club into disrepute and breached his contract as well, I for one will be glad to see the back off him in a Watford shirt, which to wear is a privilege that he clearly did not respect!

Hornetsnest1 wrote:
Unfortunately we are family club and we would not appreciate any other player from any other club doing the same and gracing vicarage road. So he needs to be sacked. I don't think it should be seen as anyone turning there back on him, we are just not that kind of club

jasonwatford wrote:
Lee Hughes..and McCormack killed people....one playing and one due out and been training with Swindon..so come on lets get real here..yes he was an idiot but new owners are no mugs so if they can get money they will. It wont bother me if he plays for us again.

jasonwatford wrote:
Farms when he wants to he only farms when he wants to..that boy suffolk hornets he farms when he wants too.

jasonwatford wrote:
Lee Hughes..and McCormack killed people....one playing and one due out and been training with Swindon..so come on lets get real here..yes he was an idiot but new owners are no mugs so if they can get money they will. It wont bother me if he plays for us again.

In GT We Trust wrote:

jasonwatford wrote:
Lee Hughes..and McCormack killed people....one playing and one due out and been training with Swindon..so come on lets get real here..yes he was an idiot but new owners are no mugs so if they can get money they will. It wont bother me if he plays for us again.

Kicking people in the head when they are lying on the ground (whether they've been 'mouthy' or not) is exactly the sort of behaviour that can lead to people being killed. It's a bit more than just being an idiot.

steveherts wrote:
I remember GT helping Tony coton, who was in court for GBH before he joined watford and that was in birmingham to.He should be given a chance if the club see fit and hopefully just like tony he will go on to learn from his mistakes.

D.unstable wrote:
He's probably in the process of having a new one torn as we speak lol.

Not sure what his worth will be when he comes out as thought he had just signed a one year option. Does this mean he will only have 6 months left anyhow and be worth very little unless his contract is extended further, or does his age mean that we would get a fee regardless if he walked next summer?

As a few have mentioned don't really rate him, best of a bad bunch of strikers that we had at the club, but think we should do what is best financially for the club, rent him out for all I care as long as we recoup something to reinvest in 'the project'

Frankie Frazer wrote:
Apologies for the rubbish spelling! Bl00dy fingers to big for the iPhone !!

Frankie Frazer wrote:
Apologies for the rubbish spelling! Bl00dy fingers to big for the iPhone !!

LSC wrote:
I wonder how many people would be talking about second chances, young families and financial worth to his place of business if we were discussing a welder from Basingstoke?
I'd wager most would say he deserves what he gets.

Principals are just that, and one of the problems in this country is that people of 'worth' (politicians, bankers and footballers) seem to be considered the new aristocracy and above the morals that guide the rest of us.
He was a very lucky, talented and wealthy young man.
With that comes responsibility.
He blew it.

In that night he showed nothing but contempt for the Watford fans who relied on him to make their expensive Saturday afternoons a little better.

Frankie Frazer wrote:
Apologies for the rubbish spelling! Bl00dy fingers to big for the iPhone !!

Eastsussexhornet wrote:

LSC wrote:
I wonder how many people would be talking about second chances, young families and financial worth to his place of business if we were discussing a welder from Basingstoke?
I'd wager most would say he deserves what he gets.

Principals are just that, and one of the problems in this country is that people of 'worth' (politicians, bankers and footballers) seem to be considered the new aristocracy and above the morals that guide the rest of us.
He was a very lucky, talented and wealthy young man.
With that comes responsibility.
He blew it.

In that night he showed nothing but contempt for the Watford fans who relied on him to make their expensive Saturday afternoons a little better.

This is driving me insane. For God's sake! - I wonder how many of these "do-gooders" would take the same view if it was THEIR money at stake. Get real.

lutondown wrote:

Frankie Frazer wrote: Apologies for the rubbish spelling! Bl00dy fingers to big for the iPhone !!

Frankie, I started watching when I was 7 with my uncle standing under the old shrodells stand and couldn't wait to get into the Rookery with the older lads. So I know how important kids are to the club, but I do not like watching my football in the library it's become. Football in my mind is a working class sport that's been hijacked. A place to get rid of the c rap of the week. I've never really understood how we think that our club model is better than others, because it isn't. What was achieved with GT/ SEJ was special but we move on. I hope we have a complete revamp, win the Prem and make lots of noise doing so.

In GT We Trust wrote:

jasonwatford wrote: Lee Hughes..and McCormack killed people....one playing and one due out and been training with Swindon..so come on lets get real here..yes he was an idiot but new owners are no mugs so if they can get money they will. It wont bother me if he plays for us again.

Kicking people in the head when they are lying on the ground (whether they've been 'mouthy' or not) is exactly the sort of behaviour that can lead to people being killed. It's a bit more than just being an idiot.

peter10531089 wrote:

lutondown wrote:

Frankie Frazer wrote: Apologies for the rubbish spelling! Bl00dy fingers to big for the iPhone !!

Frankie, I started watching when I was 7 with my uncle standing under the old shrodells stand and couldn't wait to get into the Rookery with the older lads. So I know how important kids are to the club, but I do not like watching my football in the library it's become. Football in my mind is a working class sport that's been hijacked. A place to get rid of the c rap of the week. I've never really understood how we think that our club model is better than others, because it isn't. What was achieved with GT/ SEJ was special but we move on. I hope we have a complete revamp, win the Prem and make lots of noise doing so.

This is for me the real debate at the moment - I also attended my first match in the shrodells aged 7 but hated the rookery as the camber was to shallow and I preferred the steeper perspective of the Vicarage Road end - but then again for me it was about the football, and the football only.

Your right that historically football belonged to the working classes and grounds were traditionally found in high density working class areas to facilitate working men (who used to work on a saturday morning attending in the afternoon). But times have moved on, many clubs now have out of town developed stadiums (that I think are souless places) however the fact that families can now watch football in relative comfort and safety surely is no bad thing. Over the last few days you have (amusingly) told me (and Mr Bankrupt has told me in his normal "go away and die if your opinion differs from mine" manner) that my desire for a "Watford Way" to be continued is a bygone concept from a bygone era - well so is your hankering for the game (and not just Watford) to be recaptured by the working classes.

The "Watford Way" was never us seeing ourselves as better it was setting out part of our clubs identity as something different but never better and never sactimonious (SAHornet you may not talk to your Arsenal, Chelsea friends about it - then dont).

I love Watford but there is room for all. If the atmosphere is so important to people then move to the back right of the Rookery and join in with the guys trying to sing.

Lutondown - over to you

LSC wrote:

Eastsussexhornet wrote:

LSC wrote:
I wonder how many people would be talking about second chances, young families and financial worth to his place of business if we were discussing a welder from Basingstoke?
I'd wager most would say he deserves what he gets.

Principals are just that, and one of the problems in this country is that people of 'worth' (politicians, bankers and footballers) seem to be considered the new aristocracy and above the morals that guide the rest of us.
He was a very lucky, talented and wealthy young man.
With that comes responsibility.
He blew it.

In that night he showed nothing but contempt for the Watford fans who relied on him to make their expensive Saturday afternoons a little better.

This is driving me insane. For God's sake! - I wonder how many of these "do-gooders" would take the same view if it was THEIR money at stake. Get real.

I can answer that, because I am a person who employs people, so it would be 'my' money at stake.
(Although I have no stake in WFC and i suspect nor do you)
If one of my employees was unable to turn up for work as per his contract, with no doctors note, for 6 months, I'd sack him.
If I then found out it was all because he nearly killed someone in a drunken brawl and dragged my companies' name through the mud, I'd sack him again.

WFC4ever wrote:
I think we might just rip his contract up with 6 months left when he comes out.

Anyway the chances are Deeney won't be a Zola type of player whereas McGinn potentially is.

SimonW, Godalming wrote:

WFC4ever wrote:
I think we might just rip his contract up with 6 months left when he comes out.

Anyway the chances are Deeney won't be a Zola type of player whereas McGinn potentially is.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head ,Deeney won't be a Zola type of player because Zola likes people who can play football & Deeney can't!!

jasonwatford wrote:
Its funny how many idiots come on here stating the moral high ground dont you all think....if you can read i have just stated facts...not saying he did a good thing..not saying anything other than from a business point of view you bring him back in loan him or play him then try to sell on for money. Do we put deeney in same point of view as ched evens ?? now there you go you can all discuss that now

mooneysmagic wrote:

LSC wrote:

Eastsussexhornet wrote:

LSC wrote:
I wonder how many people would be talking about second chances, young families and financial worth to his place of business if we were discussing a welder from Basingstoke?
I'd wager most would say he deserves what he gets.

Principals are just that, and one of the problems in this country is that people of 'worth' (politicians, bankers and footballers) seem to be considered the new aristocracy and above the morals that guide the rest of us.
He was a very lucky, talented and wealthy young man.
With that comes responsibility.
He blew it.

In that night he showed nothing but contempt for the Watford fans who relied on him to make their expensive Saturday afternoons a little better.

This is driving me insane. For God's sake! - I wonder how many of these "do-gooders" would take the same view if it was THEIR money at stake. Get real.

I can answer that, because I am a person who employs people, so it would be 'my' money at stake.
(Although I have no stake in WFC and i suspect nor do you)
If one of my employees was unable to turn up for work as per his contract, with no doctors note, for 6 months, I'd sack him.
If I then found out it was all because he nearly killed someone in a drunken brawl and dragged my companies' name through the mud, I'd sack him again.

I agree most employers would follow your course of action. However there is a slight difference here in that I suspect that you do not hand over £500k to your staffs previous employers. If you did would you be prepared to write off this money to retain yourmoral high ground?

Eastsussexhornet wrote:

mooneysmagic wrote:

LSC wrote:

Eastsussexhornet wrote:

LSC wrote: I wonder how many people would be talking about second chances, young families and financial worth to his place of business if we were discussing a welder from Basingstoke? I'd wager most would say he deserves what he gets. Principals are just that, and one of the problems in this country is that people of 'worth' (politicians, bankers and footballers) seem to be considered the new aristocracy and above the morals that guide the rest of us. He was a very lucky, talented and wealthy young man. With that comes responsibility. He blew it. In that night he showed nothing but contempt for the Watford fans who relied on him to make their expensive Saturday afternoons a little better.

This is driving me insane. For God's sake! - I wonder how many of these "do-gooders" would take the same view if it was THEIR money at stake. Get real.

I can answer that, because I am a person who employs people, so it would be 'my' money at stake. (Although I have no stake in WFC and i suspect nor do you) If one of my employees was unable to turn up for work as per his contract, with no doctors note, for 6 months, I'd sack him. If I then found out it was all because he nearly killed someone in a drunken brawl and dragged my companies' name through the mud, I'd sack him again.

I agree most employers would follow your course of action. However there is a slight difference here in that I suspect that you do not hand over £500k to your staffs previous employers. If you did would you be prepared to write off this money to retain yourmoral high ground?

Quite....

dwid hornet wrote:
Wow. Just wow. He's being punished by the courts so he doesn't punishing again, those of you saying that he's not right for our family club and you wouldn't be cheering if he scored but sorry I'm pretty sure you cheered when we got promotion and oh wait a second Marlon King, we wouldn't have got promoted without him and he had been to jail before coming to us and again recently, so you can shut up about that, and troy is young he's made a mistake and it was very dangerous and silly, but as I said at the start he's already being punished he doesn't need to be punished twice, and you seem to be forgetting there was another kid involved in this you know the victim... He's no angel either, why isn't he being punished as well. Give Deeney a second chance!! Up the orns!!

dwid hornet wrote:
Wow. Just wow. He's being punished by the courts so he doesn't punishing again, those of you saying that he's not right for our family club and you wouldn't be cheering if he scored but sorry I'm pretty sure you cheered when we got promotion and oh wait a second Marlon King, we wouldn't have got promoted without him and he had been to jail before coming to us and again recently, so you can shut up about that, and troy is young he's made a mistake and it was very dangerous and silly, but as I said at the start he's already being punished he doesn't need to be punished twice, and you seem to be forgetting there was another kid involved in this you know the victim... He's no angel either, why isn't he being punished as well. Give Deeney a second chance!!

Up the orns!!

garston tony wrote:

dwid hornet wrote:
Wow. Just wow. He's being punished by the courts so he doesn't punishing again, those of you saying that he's not right for our family club and you wouldn't be cheering if he scored but sorry I'm pretty sure you cheered when we got promotion and oh wait a second Marlon King, we wouldn't have got promoted without him and he had been to jail before coming to us and again recently, so you can shut up about that, and troy is young he's made a mistake and it was very dangerous and silly, but as I said at the start he's already being punished he doesn't need to be punished twice, and you seem to be forgetting there was another kid involved in this you know the victim... He's no angel either, why isn't he being punished as well. Give Deeney a second chance!! Up the orns!!

You obviously dont know what happened by your comments.

The 'victim' who you say should be punished was a student waiting to get into a club with his mates. His only 'crime' was to stop someone braining a doorman with a metal pole, I would say that he IS an angel actually for stepping in when so many people would just stand aside.

The group attacking the doormen then turned on the student and his mates. TD and his brother and friends where nothing to do with either group and didnt have to get involved, but TD's brother decided to wade in and TD followed suit with (apparently his own defence lawyers words) the red mist decended.

The victim did nothing but defend a doorman and then defend himself, no crime there at all.

The fact that TD didnt have to get involved AT ALL but could have walked away is putting his character in even more poor light

mooneysmagic wrote:

LSC wrote:

Eastsussexhornet wrote:

LSC wrote:
I wonder how many people would be talking about second chances, young families and financial worth to his place of business if we were discussing a welder from Basingstoke?
I'd wager most would say he deserves what he gets.

Principals are just that, and one of the problems in this country is that people of 'worth' (politicians, bankers and footballers) seem to be considered the new aristocracy and above the morals that guide the rest of us.
He was a very lucky, talented and wealthy young man.
With that comes responsibility.
He blew it.

In that night he showed nothing but contempt for the Watford fans who relied on him to make their expensive Saturday afternoons a little better.

This is driving me insane. For God's sake! - I wonder how many of these "do-gooders" would take the same view if it was THEIR money at stake. Get real.

I can answer that, because I am a person who employs people, so it would be 'my' money at stake.
(Although I have no stake in WFC and i suspect nor do you)
If one of my employees was unable to turn up for work as per his contract, with no doctors note, for 6 months, I'd sack him.
If I then found out it was all because he nearly killed someone in a drunken brawl and dragged my companies' name through the mud, I'd sack him again.

I agree most employers would follow your course of action. However there is a slight difference here in that I suspect that you do not hand over £500k to your staffs previous employers. If you did would you be prepared to write off this money to retain yourmoral high ground?

corbindallas wrote:

jasonwatford wrote: Whatever we think Troy ia an asset to the club and worth money..even if he comes back goes out on loan maybe then sell him ??

No Troy is not an asset, he is a thug and hooligan who is in jail for kicking someone in the head. I can't even believe the club are stating they need to know all the facts first and are in comms with him for this. He was tried and convicted by the judicial system end off. This smacks of penny pinching, if this was a fan a life ban would have been issued before their feet touched the ground, if he is not sacked this will be a very sad day for Watford Football Club supporting someone who clearly has brought the club into disrepute and breached his contract as well, I for one will be glad to see the back off him in a Watford shirt, which to wear is a privilege that he clearly did not respect!

garston tony wrote:
With regards Marlon King, Gillingham supported him whilst in jail and after coming out fair play he seemed to be on the straight and narrow. But what did he do with that second chance eventually? Oh yes, headbutt a Hull team mate and then get sent down for sexual assault. He's got 14 convictions, has been to jail twice and is on the sex offenders register. Maybe if Gillingham hadnt stood by him he may have learnt a better, more long term lesson. Maybe if there wasnt this impression out there that football players are something special he wouldnt have thought it okay to attack a woman. Just a thought.

Bringe wrote:
Deeney did not assault a police officer, did not cause any life threatening injuries and if his brother is to believed, only gave a guy a fat lip and a few bruises, that victim was not the same person with a broken Jaw.

Some people exaggerate beyond belief.

Bringe wrote:
Deeney did not assault a police officer, did not cause any life threatening injuries and if his brother is to believed, only gave a guy a fat lip and a few bruises, that victim was not the same person with a broken Jaw.

Some people exaggerate beyond belief.

LSC wrote:

Bringe wrote:
Deeney did not assault a police officer, did not cause any life threatening injuries and if his brother is to believed, only gave a guy a fat lip and a few bruises, that victim was not the same person with a broken Jaw.

Some people exaggerate beyond belief.

From the BBC: "Watford FC striker Troy Deeney, 23, was recorded by CCTV cameras kicking one of the victims in the head."

Do you know how we used to execute people?
Hanging. Hanging does not strangle people. It kills them almost instantly by causing an extreme sudden force to the head area which dislocates the neck and damages the spinal chord. The heart and lungs stop working and they die.

This is why racing driver wear neck braces. A sudden, violent movement of the head in a crash will kill them.

Do you think being kicked in the head by a man who kicks things for a living might constitute a "sudden, violent movement of the head"?

Bringe wrote:

LSC wrote:

Bringe wrote:
Deeney did not assault a police officer, did not cause any life threatening injuries and if his brother is to believed, only gave a guy a fat lip and a few bruises, that victim was not the same person with a broken Jaw.

Some people exaggerate beyond belief.

From the BBC: "Watford FC striker Troy Deeney, 23, was recorded by CCTV cameras kicking one of the victims in the head."

Do you know how we used to execute people?
Hanging. Hanging does not strangle people. It kills them almost instantly by causing an extreme sudden force to the head area which dislocates the neck and damages the spinal chord. The heart and lungs stop working and they die.

This is why racing driver wear neck braces. A sudden, violent movement of the head in a crash will kill them.

Do you think being kicked in the head by a man who kicks things for a living might constitute a "sudden, violent movement of the head"?

I've been there ... you go down you curl up and tuck in, hence only bruises and a bust lip.

It's not as if Deeney was taking a penalty kick at a head sticking out of the ground.... Your analogy stinks.

I don't condone what he did but he doesn't deserve to hang for it.

LSC wrote:

Bringe wrote:

LSC wrote:

Bringe wrote:
Deeney did not assault a police officer, did not cause any life threatening injuries and if his brother is to believed, only gave a guy a fat lip and a few bruises, that victim was not the same person with a broken Jaw.

Some people exaggerate beyond belief.

From the BBC: "Watford FC striker Troy Deeney, 23, was recorded by CCTV cameras kicking one of the victims in the head."

Do you know how we used to execute people?
Hanging. Hanging does not strangle people. It kills them almost instantly by causing an extreme sudden force to the head area which dislocates the neck and damages the spinal chord. The heart and lungs stop working and they die.

This is why racing driver wear neck braces. A sudden, violent movement of the head in a crash will kill them.

Do you think being kicked in the head by a man who kicks things for a living might constitute a "sudden, violent movement of the head"?

I've been there ... you go down you curl up and tuck in, hence only bruises and a bust lip.

It's not as if Deeney was taking a penalty kick at a head sticking out of the ground.... Your analogy stinks.

I don't condone what he did but he doesn't deserve to hang for it.

That is fine if you are alert enough to do it. We have all seen boxing KOs where one punch has a guy completely sparko before he even hits the ground.
This guy was on the ground and we don't know how he got there or how alert he was to protect himself.
For Deeney to get such a heavy sentence (in this day and age that is) the CCTV must have shown the event was particularly nasty.
The victim could have been killed or easily maimed for life and people on here are still worrying about the money side of it.
I think that says a lot about where we are as a society.

Bringe wrote:
LSC you said it 'we don't know', unfortunately the WO failed to report many of the facts. I suspect deliberately to mislead on the more newsworthy broken jaw. While the police may not have been able to attribute exactly which injury was caused by who, surely they could attribute which assailant to which victim?
If Troy's brothers tweets are to be believed, the guy he kicked has injuries consistent with those I received all those years ago.
Sentencing today, especially since the riots, has in my eyes become over zealous. In my youth GBH generally merited a suspended sentence for first time offenders, of course this was dependent on the extent of the injuries but a severely bust lip would only just qualify as GBH.