Hornets' home run ends after Plymouth defeat
9:45pm Tuesday 16th September 2008
Comments (47)Watford's winning run at Vicarage Road came to a grinding halt tonight after strugglers Plymouth sent them crashing to a 2-1 defeat.
Karl Duguid's excellent first-half strike and a penalty from Luke Summerfield made it a miserable week for the Hornets and eased the visitors' worries after a winless start to the season. John-Joe O'Toole struck his third goal of the season seven minutes from time but it was too little too late for Watford.
Plymouth manager Paul Sturrock made seven changes after their defeat to Norwich at the weekend which sent them bottom of the Championship. The Hornets were unchanged despite a lacklustre performance at Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday.
Watford's first effort on target came after 15 minutes when Lloyd Doyley passed to Tamas Priskin and the Hungarian cut in from the right before hitting a tame shot which Romain Larrieu easily held.
The match was heading towards a stalemate after 30 minutes when the visitors took the lead with their first noteworthy effort on goal. Chris Clark's cross from the left was knocked back by Rory Fallon and Duguid lashed a half-volley beyond Mart Poom into the net.
The Hornets tried to respond immediately but Tommy Smith's touch let him down, and the ball rolled through to the goalkeeper, after the ball fell to him in the penalty area. Five minutes before half-time, Watford almost carved out an opportunity but Doyley's excellent cross was well defended with Priskin hovering dangerously.
Plymouth went close shortly afterwards when Paul Gallagher's free-kick from the edge of the area arrowed past the right-hand post. But the visitors had a scare when Smith's cross was dropped by Larrieu but the Frenchman recovered to claim the ball. It was largely uninspired football from both sides with the exception of the well crafted goal from the Pilgrims.
Aidy Boothroyd reacted to another ineffective showing by Priskin and replaced him with Will Hoskins at the start of the second half. The Hornets created the first chance of the second half when Mathias Doumbe's clearance was seized upon by John Eustace and the midfielder's half-volley was pushed around the post by Larrieu.
Watford were forced into a second substitution after 50 minutes when Doyley twisted his knee and he was immediately replaced by Adrian Mariappa.
Eustace again went close after 53 minutes when he cracked a fierce volley, heading for the goal, but fortunately for the visitors it deflected off a defender.
But the hosts missed the best chance by some margin soon afterwards when Leigh Bromby flicked on a free-kick and Hoskins somehow smashed his effort wide of the target from close-range.
Plymouth were not really threatening the home defence but they mustered a rare effort on goal after 66 minutes when Gallagher turned sharply and rifled a shot which Poom comfortably held. It sparked the visitors into life and Duguid almost added his second but his volley was charged down by a defender. The pressure on Watford's goal continued and Hoskins nearly turned the ball into his own net from a corner but it went out for another set piece.
But Watford conceded a penalty in the 71st minute when Jay DeMerit inexplicably handled the ball from Rory Fallon's header. Summerfield made no mistake as he sent Poom the wrong way from the penalty spot.
Boothroyd acted in desperation by throwing on Lionel Ainsworth in place of Jobi McAnuff. The pacy winger made an immediate impact by sending in a dangerous cross which Smith just failed to direct his header to the target.
It should have been 3-0 to the visitors in the 80th minute when Jamie Mackie's cross was headed against the crossbar by the lively Gallagher.
Watford did not give up and Hoskins should have done better after he was released but his effort went wide of the goal.
But they gave themselves a lifeline in the 83rd minute when Smith pulled back a corner and O'Toole maintained his scoring form by firing the ball into the net from yards out.
Plymouth had another chance to kill off the game late on when Mackie's cross was volleyed at goal by Gallagher but Poom was equal to the effort.
And Watford kept the pressure on with a series of long range efforts which were desperately blocked by the opposition defenders. Watford had the ball in the back of the net in injury time when Ainsworth headed on and Hoskins slid it underneath Larrieu but the linesman flagged for offside.
Watford: Poom; Doyley (Mariappa 50), Bromby, DeMerit, Harley; Eustace, O'Toole, Williamson, McAnuff (72); Smith, Priskin (Hoskins HT).
Subs: Loach, Bangura.
Plymouth: Larrieu; Doumbe, Cathcart, Seip, Paterson (Barker 57); Summerfield, Duguid, Clark; Mackie, Gallagher (Foally 89), Fallon.
Subs: Marin, Mpenza, Barker, Easter.
Booked: Doumbe Referee: Clive Penton Attendance: 13,237.
Your Say YourWatford Observer
Hornet Cornet, Hornetsville says...
10:33pm Tue 16 Sep 08
'We need to change our style of play' he said. He's true in that respect, we're playing even worse than last season.
Someone kick him and the board out.
derry pigweed, northampton says...
12:09am Wed 17 Sep 08
djwatford, Hatch End says...
12:31am Wed 17 Sep 08
Too many crap signings(and big bonuses)have resulted in us fielding a side without a striker.
The problem last season was no plan b and although we are trying to play differently this season we still don't have a plan b.
It's useless moaning because the chairman has given himself a get out of jail free card by making the club available.He has presided over this mess and it is approaching the one we had when Lewington and Cox kept us afloat.Both Simpson and Ashton deserve a Grimsby like protest but there seems to be a general feeling of apathy about proceedings.
It's going to be a long hard struggle this season and the only ray of light is the hope that someone with money and more brains than the current board takes over.
Until then we have to support the team(where too many of the players aren't good enough but,at least,they try hard)and hope there are 3 worse teams than us.
veally, Ley Hill says...
12:36am Wed 17 Sep 08
I have supported Watford FC for 40 years and have no problem dealing with the vagaries inherent to continuing to do so. Perhaps we should focus, as Football supporters,on the bigger picture than just our individual clubs? It is not too profound to state that football is eating itself.
Discuss.
JonBoy, Watford says...
8:06am Wed 17 Sep 08
watfordkev, Watford says...
8:13am Wed 17 Sep 08
Against that...
1. We only bossed it for about 20 of the 90 minutes.
2. The first half was an especially poor performance against a side propping up the table.
3. The defence was woeful, the attack not much better. Priskin flickered occasionally but never in good positions, and for me looks less than committed.
4. Plymouth played better football and were ultimately reasonable value for the win.
Hearing the Reading result on the way home increased the woe - Saturday could be carnage.
On top of all that - I agree with everything veally said above.
Nostradamus, Leighton Buzzard says...
8:39am Wed 17 Sep 08
To my mind this is something worse than the fallout from the Vialli days. At least then the financial problems were not totally from the club's mismanagement of the resources i.e. the collapse of ITV Digital. Similarly, it did feel that we were having a real crack at getting back to the Premiership with what we were spending our money on, despite there being many unwise choices. This time round we have made an absolute fortune from player sales. This time round all our money has gone on (apparently) the wages of players, most of whom were here before we got promoted. Did it really feel that we gambled to try and stay in the Premiership and that's why the purse is now empty? Did it really feel last year that we were going all out to bounce straight back? Our squad is now far worse than it was in Boothroyd's first full season!
Simpson et al have close to ruined this club within the space of two short years. I don't feel too sorry for Boothroyd because his inability to fix a slide that began last October was appauling. We're playing better now (yes, despite the defeat to Wednesday and last night's match) but with the squad that's available it's too late.
All I know is that in a matter of time both Simpson and Boothroyd will be gone and we'll be still be experiencing the fall out from their mismanagement and incompetence on and off the pitch.
Please feel free to respond to this but, in case you want to tell me that we're punching above our weight as it is and I should get behind the team (which, incidentally, I do both home and away), I would say it's views like these that keep us a small club and allow us to be taken advantage of by the management.
Chris the Vic, The Vic says...
8:48am Wed 17 Sep 08
What gets to me is our fans. Against Ipswich in the first half we were awful and after a couple of substitutions in the second half we turned it around and the fans chanted Aidy's name. Liam was one of those subs but he has a knock.
Wednesday was awful and then against a rubbish Plymouth team we got worse.
Resulting in half the fan base going against Boofers.
What has suddenly changed well Liam wasnt there in the second half and Jonjo started thus we missed his impact as a sub at the start of the second half. Jobi had a bad game a cardboard cut out could have done better. Priskin cant hold a ball up and doesnt fare well with long balls and we played a lot of them..DeMerit leading by example. Tamas got subbed by the headless chicken Hoskins who also cant hold a ball up is wasted with long balls..but then he does pretend to be a striker unlike Tamas who struggles totally upfront on his own. Without Sadler our centre backs struggle and Harley is a midfielder not a full back.
Cut out the long ball get Matt and Liam back and of course ras and we will then have a squad which will survive and Aidy will have done a good job..Get injuries and we have a major problem...that is the reality of a small town team in the Championship with no money.
Dont blame Aidy, he along with the board must of course take much of the blame but so to must the missing fans..if they dont turn up the money doesnt flow and the volume of support is diluted.
If the town of Watford doesnt change Div 1 will be a reality and as for outside investors coming in...a joke..say £7m to buy the club...£7m for the East Stand..£25m for a few good players and their wages to stand a chance of getting to the premier...then another £25m plus spending all the Sky money to stay there if we get lucky and where is the return?? It isnt going to happen and if it doesnt well less and less decent players will want to come to WFC, Aidy will move on and a less able manager will arrive.
Small team, small town but my team from birth and the one chance we had was blown by 'prudent' management gambling..just as was done when Vialli was appointed.
So on Saturday bring a friend and get behind the golden boys, because whilst Tuesday was bad the players never stopped trying and Aidy I am sure did his best..Hope the fans who left early are proud of themselves as they let us all down along with the no shows.
VoR, Watford says...
8:48am Wed 17 Sep 08
Not very good were it.
But better to happen now, sometimes you have to take one step back to take two forward, this result may go in our favour.....We'll have to wait at see if this was a blessing in disguise! personally I think it is. Keep faith.
Harry H Hornet, Watford says...
8:57am Wed 17 Sep 08
After the Ipswich game I thought that Liam Henderson should have at least made an appearance at some stage.
Has anybody told Doyley & Demerit that we are now trying to pass the ball out of defence ?
I feel sorry for Smithy as he is trying to do it all on his own.
According to Sky News both Doyley & Priskin have hamstring problems (lets hope so) so AB may be forced into changes for Saturday.
Need an early on Saturday to calm the nerves and we are also in need of a leader on the pitch.
Come on you Orns
ab11uk, watford says...
9:33am Wed 17 Sep 08
So let me get this right. you want us the fans to turn up. pay 20 quid every week to watch people who are simply not good enough.
Im amazed 14k turned up last night. Im also amazed that the fans supported the team for 95 percent of the match.
it this time of financial crisis should somebody throw away 20 quid on watching priskin?
Watford fans are very very very laid back compared to most.
we make heroes out of players we know are poor. Doyley being the prime example.
somebody on here said something very valid. This support does stop being a decent club.
i was so bored at the match yesterday that I watched most people's reaction to the teams terrible performance.
Most to be honest werent really that bothered. talking about work and life outside. it was almost like its expected, and in a way it is.
but with the majority of our fans coming because its basically "something to do" with their money.
the current fininacial crisis emans this will soon stop.
which makes you wonder. Simpson and co coked up the financies during one of englands finest economic periods.
what on earth will it be like in a crisis.
His program notes summed it up. we want this club to run itself.
if you have nothing of worth at the club then the club is worth nothing. therefore it will run itself.
what a bright future he wants for watford.
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
9:40am Wed 17 Sep 08
we ARE a small club, we HAVE been punching above our weight for 28 of the last 30 years. Pretending we are a big club doesn't suddenly make us big.
We've only stayed in the top 2 leagues with excellent management, everyone pulling together and a bit of luck. This is now starting to unravel. If we are chronically short of cash now and need to repay a bank loan shortly, administration will be a certaintly if we are relegated. Starting next year in div 1 on negative points is a realistic possibility .....so finishing out of the bottom 3 is vital. If we lose to NF, SW and Plymouth, its difficult to see who we can be confident to finish above!
I applauded the decision to take a bit of a punt last year on what may have been our best chance to ever get back in the premiership. But we have obviously sailed far too close to the wind and wasted our overspending on poor investments.
ab11uk, watford says...
10:04am Wed 17 Sep 08
In what way are we a small club? we are the largest club in the second wealthiest county. we are 20 mins from west london.
Watford is not a smalltown at all. whoever said this has clearly lived on the M25 all there lives and hasnt been north of junction 6 on the M1.
Either that or its a very poor get out cluased used only by the desperate"simpson" and the very naive.
drop this small club rubbish why put ourselves down.
Hexham Hornet, HEXHAM says...
10:22am Wed 17 Sep 08
We were small before Elton took us up through the leagues and we have never been seen as a big club. We will not be a big club while we are living on tight budgets and getting rid of our top players. The fact that the only other league club from Hertfordshire is Barnet does not support your case either.
Until we have a ground that can take 25000 fans and regularly tops 20000 we will not have the cash flow to be bigger than a small club - unless we are bought by someone with funds to throw at the club and not be worried about the consequences. Is someone out there willing, ready and able to do this?
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
10:30am Wed 17 Sep 08
Accept reality.
How many clubs above us in the leagues are smaller towns with smaller gates (excl those artificially funded) ?
Yes we are near London...this is a problem not an advantage as its too easy to get to Arsenal/Chelsea/spur
s/WH within an hour. Perhaps Rochdale should be a big club as they're near manchester ?
How many years pre the last 30 have we spent in the top 2 tiers of english football? Were we a big club then, massively underperforming ?
Look where the other smaller clubs are that have also had a taste of top flight footy in the last 30 years....notts co, oldham, luton, oxford, wimbledon...millwall
, bradford, brighton, swindon etc etc. We have no automatic right to be above these clubs...
the only reason we have been more successful than we should for our size has been down to GT, Elton's money, relatively good managers and everyone inc the supporters accepting we are lucky to be where we are and fighting like hell to stay there. I think this may be starting to unravel, partly due to recent poor management and partly due to spoilt supporters with unrealistic expectations....I hope i'm wrong !
ab11uk, watford says...
11:10am Wed 17 Sep 08
I think the reason Watford are a small club is becasue of the fans view that we are and how happy we are to accept it.
Would you want to support your mates team when all he does is complain that the county is to close to london therefore thats clearly the reason noone turns up.
what a miserable unachieving bunch you want to be.
London has a population of 8 million. 250k can go watch their local team.
Why does watford distance itself from London??
Our local rivals i do not believe should be Luton. It should be QPR or Fulham all 20 mins drive away and a hell of a lot easier to get to by public transport. and again bringing us within the london region.
Why accept mediocre because it seems like some of you like to?
we are not a small club simple as.
Berks Horn, London says...
11:24am Wed 17 Sep 08
The biggest evidence of this? The reaction of the crowd at the end of the game last night. Cheers, boos, encouraging claps? Nothing, dead silence. Absolute silence. I think we've got to the stage where we expected so much but now realise the situation is pretty hopeless and we're back to where we started pre-Boothroyd but arguably with a worse team! Everyone knows that without money we're pretty much screwed but at the same time knows the money is not there. There are many reasons why we are in this state but is there much point in pointing them out or arguing about them anymore?
What we could do is utilise what we have a lot better - last night there were some truly awful performances:
1. Eustace - brought in to distribute the ball better than Mahon. Not working is it?
2. O'Toole - completely inconsistent. Lumped around the field like a bear last night. Anonymous.
3. Given that our central midfield was completely ineffective why on earth did he play Williamson on the right? Staggering tactical ineptitude.
4. Corners - how many more times do our inswinging corners have to drop straight into the goalie's hands before Boothroyd realises he needs to re-think our tactics from set-pieces.
5. Contrary to what the bloke behind be thought Doyley was okay last night (although was ably replaced by Mariappa) as was Harley. Bromby didn't have his best game but JDM had arguably his worst game in a Watford shirt. His distribution was truly amateur - it made Shittu look like Fabregas. His positioning was poor and what he was doing for the penalty beggars belief. Cardinal rule for defenders - don't go up for the ball with both of your hands up in front of you! Ironically, he made a few great challenges after that but by then the damage was done.
Our defence looked wobbly. Unlike our forward line, Argyle were willing to run at us. Our players seem to be low on morale and confidence, unwilling to run at defences, unwilling or unable to shoot. That seems even worse because Argyle truly were a crap team! Great that we stroked the ball around a bit in the first half - but we controlled the game and couldn't contrive to create any decent changes on goal. That's pretty pointless in my book.
As Kenny's Jacket and Tommy's Mooney said earlier in this thread -where is Elton. We need a cash injection and, I'm sorry to say, a manager who is much more than just talk, psychology and gamesmanship. We need a manager who has some sort of tactical capability, who can make the most of the little we've got. Sadly that is not Boothroyd.
Unfortunately his career plan will not allow him to go anywhere now since to move downwards would ruin his designs on greater things and no one is going to promote him to better things based on what he has achieved so far. Even more unfortunately we probably can't even afford to sack him at the moment.....
ab11uk, watford says...
11:36am Wed 17 Sep 08
I saw a lot of men get pretty angry about what was happening at the club.
but then again i saw a lot of idiots point and laugh at their anger.
also the "family club" had more crowd trouble last night as again people were thrown out the ground
ralphinator, Bovingdon says...
11:41am Wed 17 Sep 08
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
11:54am Wed 17 Sep 08
as before you ignore others facts and quote none yourself, just a lot of hot air.
The FACT we are a smaller club doesn't mean anyone lacks ambition, it simply means we accept it will be tougher for us to stay where we are or get even higher. We still want to achieve that !
razor, harrow says...
12:06pm Wed 17 Sep 08
1) we are stuck with boothroyd for the time being, we cannot afford to sack him, if only in financial terms.
2) It has been worse than this. I actually think we played worse the last time argyle came here, although admittedly they were a better team then...
3) If (and it's a big if) we can get the squad fit, things will get better. Rasiak will score (no need for Priskin or Hoskins), Sadler will strengthen the back 4 and allow Harley to return to midfield (where he has been excellent).
4) All this talk about ambition/small town etc etc is slightly missing the point. We are where we are, let's make the best of it. Personally, I would be content with finishing anywhere upwards of 20th this year..
Hexham Hornet, HEXHAM says...
12:33pm Wed 17 Sep 08
ab11uk, watford says...
12:54pm Wed 17 Sep 08
Do you want me to draw you a map? do you want me to point out what other club you can go and watch in hertfordshire as big as us?
do you want me quote all the surrounding areas around watford that make us bigger than 80 percent in the league. that not including suburbs of london.
if we were in division 4 and simpson said we only had 3 people in the town you would probably believe it.
stop putting watford down. we are not a small club simple as
Nostradamus, Leighton Buzzard says...
1:07pm Wed 17 Sep 08
ab11uk wrote:It's nice to hear someone talk sense. Bravo you!
Friedonions what facts do you want?Do you want me to draw you a map? do you want me to point out what other club you can go and watch in hertfordshire as big as us? do you want me quote all the surrounding areas around watford that make us bigger than 80 percent in the league. that not including suburbs of london.if we were in division 4 and simpson said we only had 3 people in the town you would probably believe it. stop putting watford down. we are not a small club simple as
Chris the Vic, The Vic says...
1:18pm Wed 17 Sep 08
All your demographics in the world wont change us from being a small club. The style and lack of success we are having will depress attendances but recent history tells me you are so wrong.
Look at the facts:
Play off final v Leeds...we couldnt sell our allocation to the biggest match of the year.
Cup semi final v Man U at Villa Park..We couldnt even sell our limited allocation for the one competition we competed in.
Play off semi against Hull empty seats all over our areas.
In this day and age I wonder whether we will ever fill the ground again.
I am not putting WFC down...I want the club to succeed but since 1956 we have always been a smallish club that occasionally has periods when it punches above its weight.
As for Simpson & Co they have messed up bigtime, we know it, they know it but they arent big enough to admit they got it wrong. People do see that differently and will defend it or even ignore it but thats life.
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
1:48pm Wed 17 Sep 08
if you have nothing new to say please save your time rather than just repeat. The points i, ralphinator and Hexham made remain. You have have said nothing other than we are the biggest club in Herts and near some big london clubs. We are small in any way you choose to measure us, always have been and always will be, but thats not "putting the club down". Like you I want us to be battling at the top end of this table and to taste prem footy again one day. Just think we have to accept those we are competing against at this level (derby/wolves/bham/s
heff utd esp) have more resource than us and we shouldn't think this is a level playing field.
ab11uk, watford says...
2:21pm Wed 17 Sep 08
we are a small club in terms of resource.
but surely the club should be a attractive purpose considering its location.
lets face it the majority of football purchases are based on asset.
now with the land for the ground and surrounding areas watford is a attractive club. we all know how expensive it is to buy a house around here.
If simpson was properly looking for investment maybe he should follow mike ashley in his pursuits. If we based Newcastle on land value we would be far more attractive. Hense why somebody bought up QPR alot better than Newcastle.The Playing Staff can be changed with minimal investment. The land cannot.
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
2:45pm Wed 17 Sep 08
JonBoy, Watford says...
2:59pm Wed 17 Sep 08
Do you think that Watford achieved a lot less than this when we have been in the top flight? If the answer is no then you can't blame our situation on being a small club. If we only averaged say 15,000 or less during our top flight years then you have a point.
I don't know what we average in the Premiership but I am amazed that people still use attendance figures to justify why we shouldn't be successful.
The money from Sky by just being in the Premiership makes you big.
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
3:12pm Wed 17 Sep 08
Wigan and Portsmouth are bank rolled. Bolton, I agree are not much larger a club and are fighting above their weight. Major achievement but not sure for how much longer !
Yes once you are established in the prem you have the ability to use the sky money to stay there. First year in the prem no players believe you will stay there so you only get the cast-offs that no-one else wants.
In the champ, its all about having the funds to buy/keep players relative to your competition so that you can get into the prem. We beat the odds last time to win promotion - a massive achievement that shouldn't be understated. Last year we still had the artificial advantage of the parachute money but blew it. Now we, like most, have to fall back on our gate receipts income relative to those around and so will be back to being one of the poorer in the league.
ralphinator, Bovingdon says...
3:20pm Wed 17 Sep 08
JonBoy wrote:This ignores the impact of big money benefactors. Wigan, for example, can only survive on their low gates because dear Mr Whelan has his hand permanently in his trousers to enable very big salaries to be paid. Portsmouth similar with Gaydamak. Unless WFC get similar treasure trove, prem football is totally unsustainable on our gates.
Do you think that attendance figures determine a clubs earnings potential and whether they can expect to be successful? Wigan averaged 18,000 last season, portsmouth just under 20,000, bolton 21,000Do you think that Watford achieved a lot less than this when we have been in the top flight? If the answer is no then you can't blame our situation on being a small club. If we only averaged say 15,000 or less during our top flight years then you have a point. I don't know what we average in the Premiership but I am amazed that people still use attendance figures to justify why we shouldn't be successful. The money from Sky by just being in the Premiership makes you big.
JonBoy, Watford says...
3:36pm Wed 17 Sep 08
We seem pretty good at thinking small and putting ourselves down all the while.
ab11uk, watford says...
3:41pm Wed 17 Sep 08
The whole reason QPR was bought was there location.
Friedonions if you think land value is more erratic than a footballs team's position in the league and attendance then you must be plain dim
Stop putting watford down and stop trying to pour you negativity all over the club.
Woul you apply the same to your house because if your property appeal was basedo n the people in it and not the land then expect a long slow sale and offers of around 10 pence.
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
5:00pm Wed 17 Sep 08
Johnboy - Yes we can cling to the fact that we have as much chance as any other small club of being bought by a rich benefactor. But until that happens we are a small club and need to accept it and get on with it.
I'm not putting wfc down - the opposite, I'm saying we're doing b****y well to be where we are.
ab11uk, watford says...
8:09pm Wed 17 Sep 08
Finance director ok and also CEO? and maybe chief whip?
Was it the lehman brothers thats why u got so much spare time on ur hands?
Im a senior finance director hahahaha please
get a grip and stop trying to take the pee out of watford fans with ur small club dribble get a grip and go back to luton you deff have a chance of being a finance diretor there. my nan just resigned
VoR, Watford says...
8:14pm Wed 17 Sep 08
WFC & Proud, Watford says...
8:29pm Wed 17 Sep 08
Consider this: Watford's population is around 80,000. The Club has about 11,000 ST holders and average another 3,000 or so "pay on the day" home fans on weekend match days.
Norwich has 125,000 people and they average around 20,000 each home match. And they're not in the Prem where their gates were around 26,000-30,000. Ipswich is very similar at 121,000, Plymouth's pop is 240,000! Wolverhampton? 240,000. Birmingham? 1,000,000 with two main clubs (Villa & Brum). West Bromwich? 150,000. Shall I stop now? :) Our closest Champ club in terms of population is Burnley with around 90,000.
Whay are their gates so high? Simple: captive audiences & family traditions to support their local team plus the distractions or attractions of much larger towns & cities are not just 15 mins train ride away. And yes, I catch a train to Euston every weekday for work.
Face facts; we don't have the fan base to be able to support a 30,000 seat stadium, Prem and Champions League football season after season like the "Big 4" & the next 8 or so Clubs in the Prem.
More importantly, I believe a fair proportion of those 11,000 ST holders are "second club" fans i.e. they support Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, etc and so probably don't really 'care' about Watford like you & I.
Y Bover, Kings Langley says...
8:44pm Wed 17 Sep 08
This is the third year in succession that I've walked out of the ground seething at the total incompetance of our football. Yes, its been 3 seasons now that we've been served up total crap football.
Lets not beat about the bush, we were dreadful, woeful, awful.
No pattern of play. No creativity. No shots on goal for most of the game. Good god what are they doing in training??
Priskin has been at our club for 2 maybe 3 seasons now? Has he got any better? Or is he the same incompetant, useless striker who'll get 3 maybe 4 goals a season? Who's responsible for his training?? Does he make any diagonal bursts into the box at pace? Does he ever jump for a high ball? Does he ever anticipate a cross? He's rubbish and so is his coaching.
The blame for our predicament lies with 'Hoofroyd'the man who insisted Ellington was signed at a cost of the East Stand rebuild.Lets not even mention Jackson, Kabba, Colins John, and all the other rubbish brought in.
New style of play?? You are definitely having a laugh. Foul throw-ins, countless giving away possession, no attempts at goal.Hoof it up and away. No style, no pattern, no understanding. No chance.
We've just been turned over by a team who were bottom and hadn't won a game, but they looked a class above our incompetent lot.
Hoofroyd, please apply for the Newcastle job, get it and b----r off.
We need someone who can actually coach and teach our lot how to play football. How to defend and how to take throw-ins and corners even.
My life gets worse watching this rubbish, week after week, and then having to listen to the spin of Hoofy and Ashton. Its time to go Hoofroyd, Simpson, Ashton you are all RUBBISH.
Hornetboy84, Ricky says...
8:48pm Wed 17 Sep 08
not sure about a lack of plan B - last night plan A was missing.
Tommy was so frustrated he kicked someone - and playing in a way that needs Williamson to give us width doesnt work. To be fair to him he had no chance - if you have Doyley hoofing the ball out of play or 50 feet over his head at best (I counted 7 passes in a row at one stage he gave away) - then how do you make an impression - and there is no overlap option either.
Jobi was really poor and tommy tried but the shape (connection with Tamas) didnt work. Tamas did some good things - but we need more from him and ultimately he is not goingto commit himself body and soul to get a goal.
Their first goal was coming - but it was their first attempt - and our response was pitiful - even though the crowd were fair and tried to help.
I also feel we are missing Harley from the mix - he gives us some balance.
Lots to do Aidy - you need; Johnson, Heider and AN other on loan. But you needed that BEFORE the injuries. (some hope though I guess).
If we can get those in then maybe we can play mariappa. De M. Bromby and harley in back 4. Eustace sitting. Johnson, Williamson & Jobi across midfield, Tommy in hole and H up front. we will see.
Time to earn your money aidy. Simpson - you need to support some investment or you wont have a viable option to sell at any price.
Not looking forward to Saturday!
simpson, ottershaw says...
9:36pm Wed 17 Sep 08
seen it all before. what happened to the new on the floor style of play. even worse in second half when we had 2 midgets up front.
the relegation form has started in september this season unlike last year when it all went wrong in december. unless we get some lons in , we are in trouble. bring on reading fc on saturday. god help us...
ab11uk, watford says...
9:07am Thu 18 Sep 08
Simpson reteric if I ever heard it.
Watford town population is 86,575
Bushey, Oxhey, South Oxhey, ups it to 122.500 add in kings langley and abbotts if you want and we are bigger.
all the other populations are not based on town centres only it also includes surround villages.
So i wonder why watford"fans" including the chairman like to add spin to make out watford is a small town.
you say its impossible to get to london in 20 mins. but then say you can do it in 15????
and then you have the cheek to say most watford fans use it as a second club. No offence but thats absolute crap.
The price difference isnt that much between the us and arsenal,tottenham and fulham especially considering we will play a extra 10-12 games.
but then again who would want to support watford when supposedly fans spread the great word of watford.
oh hello mate u wanna support watford?
well aslong as u have a first team you live in watford town centre and are willing to accept your team is going nowhere and if you want to excel i will remind you we are a "small" club then your welcome.
if not like me i guess i cant be a fan?????????????
We are not a small club simple as.
lovefriedonions, kings langley says...
9:52am Thu 18 Sep 08
so as i said before, we chronically underperformed for 70 years up to GT's appointment then did we, given we are "a big club" ?
No i don't work for Lehmans but this week has been interesting as they owed us £millions which we won't now get ! Luckily they won't owe WFC anything or that really would have been the end !!
Bottom line is we risk dropping back to the level we've spent most of our history unless we sort ourselves out and pull together. I'm not optimistic...
kaiserslautern84, Fields End says...
11:14am Thu 18 Sep 08
The fact is that football in the UK is in a dreadful state. There are too many professional clubs - and players - trying to make a living from the game. The level of interest in the country is simply not strong enough to support them all, so the result? A few clubs, literally, playing to packed stadia week in week out, but the vast majority playing in front of crowds that are well below capacity. And that means not enough revenue to compete in the long term.
With regard to Watford being a big or a small town, it's a big town that happens to be next door to the capital city, which has a handfull of premiership teams and numerous others below.
Nowadays, people have more choice. Years ago, the only pleasure the working man had was a pint in the pub and football on a Saturday. He's now got all sorts of alternative leisure pursuits that have put football into a much tougher position.
We could be on the verge of some sort of football meltdown, especially for those clubs outside the Premiership.
Sorry to depress everyone!
WFC & Proud, Watford says...
2:28pm Thu 18 Sep 08
Population - fair enough. Now add the 8 million or so who live inside the M25; makes your argument worse, not better, as it means we have a greater base from which to attract possible fans.
Re 2nd club comment: - re-read my statement; I suggested the ST holders at Watford are not die-hard Watford fans, but likely to be fans of other Clubs who can't afford to go to their grounds anymore so come to Watford. Might explain why we only sold-out the ground for a total of 4 games over both Prem seasons and why the atmosphere isn't as good as it was during GT's 1st era & even before that.
We are NEVER going to attract 30,000 crowds to home matches even if we get a new stadium & then sustain it with our fan base & resources. The now-knackered stadium development plan increased capacity to around 24,000 with a possible 3,000 increase if we began over-achieving again & could afford the extra investment.
We have to sell pleayers to survive; we won't attract Arab billionaires as we don;t have the history or fan base to give them any kind of retrun on their investment.
No one does or did (with the exception of Elton at Watford, the Haywards at Wolves, Jack Walker at Blackburn, Whelan at Wigan, etc) invest in a football club for pure fun; they all want a return. Look at Ashley at Newcastle; wants double the sum of what he paid & has spent since to be bought-out. Even with the "Geordie Nation", I doubt he'll get it.
I don;t prefess to know how to run a Club but I'd be really interested to see how you can make us the Big Club you claim we are. Needs to cover buying the club (ariound £20 million has been sort of agreed as the likely buy price), finance the wages & infrastructure, develop the playing staff to sustain results on the pitch, running costs to keep us going off the pitch, etc.
ab11uk, watford says...
12:25pm Fri 19 Sep 08
I think every Watford fan would tkae you season ticket holders are just people who cant go to their real teams games with massive offence.
the reason we didnt sell out at prem games was the ticketing system in place the lower rous and east stand never sold to non members.
Get on a train to brighton and stops outside fulham in 20 mins.
At the moment we are not going to attract 30k crowds cause the stadium is 22k capaciity even less with east stand down.
Manchester Citys history is hardly glittering something tells me a arab property investment company has invested in the land. why do you think ever owner has spoken about the stadia as no. 1 priority.
You say noone does or did invest in football for pure fun and then go on to name 5 at the moment who are.
stop trying to put my club down and go and put ur gloom on the hatters where maybe your kind of support is welcome.
WFC & Proud, Watford says...
9:03am Sat 20 Sep 08
We were never close to sell-out in the Prem due to demand, not supply.
Key word in investors paragraph was "exceptions".Could probably add Delia Smith to that list.
I'm not putting OUR club down; just passing-on my opinion & hoping to get people like you to realise your "we're a big club" argument makes us likely to be the next Luton, Aldershot, Accrington Stanley, etc. And I don't want that for OUR club, Luton or anyone else's.
Now you've added the (agreed) item about OUR current stadium being a restriction, I'm assuming your delay on sharing plans on how you will make US the Big Club you say WE are (on 14,000-19,000 gates) & sustain this over many seasons are due any moment now?
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Kenny's Jackett & Tommy's Mooney, says...
10:12pm Tue 16 Sep 08
Elton we need you and i'm not talking financially i'm talking centre forward and bring your piano too, as cover for the injury prone Poom.