Sordell completes Bolton switch (From Watford Observer)
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Watford striker Marvin Sordell completes Bolton Wanderers switch
1:51am Wednesday 1st February 2012 in Stadiums
Picture: Action Images
Bolton Wanderers have completed the signing of Watford striker Marvin Sordell, subject to confirmation by the FA and Premier League.
The striker has signed a three-and-a-half year contract following his move for an undisclosed fee, which we understand could potentially reach more than £3.5m.
Sordell had looked set to join Cardiff City this afternoon but then Bolton came in with an increased offer for the England Under-21 striker.
Manager Owen Coyle told Bolton’s website: "I am delighted to have brought Marvin to our club, as there were a number of other Premier League clubs tracking him. We know that he has great potential and I am really looking forward to working with him.”
Sordell had an unspectacular start to his career as he did not particularly excel for Watford’s Under-18s or Reserves, after he signed for the Hornets following his release by Fulham.
In his first season as a professional, Sordell scored twice in six outings for Watford and netted once in eight appearances on loan at Tranmere Rovers.
And the striker was not expected to begin the 2010/11 campaign in the starting XI, however, Troy Deeney’s transfer was delayed and Sordell partnered Danny Graham in the opener at Norwich City.
The pair did not look back as Watford enjoyed a play-off push for much of the season, with Sordell finding the net on 15 occasions.
Graham’s departure to Swansea City resulted in Sordell becoming Watford’s leading striker and although he has suffered the odd dip in form this season, he has scored ten already during the 2011/12 campaign.
Sordell did not play for Watford during tonight’s 2-0 victory over Millwall as the striker was withdrawn by the Hornets owner Laurance Bassini.
Comments(110)
benson11
says...
6:45am Wed 1 Feb 12
Good luck to him, dont think he is good enough for the prem yet. However how come Bassini withdrew him from the game last night? since when does he pick a team. Just goes to show that he does not have the clubs interest at heart. I hope he is going to re-invest the money back into the ground. Mr Bassini if you read these threads what about using the the money to get the corner of the Rookery finished?
Hornet1970
says...
6:57am Wed 1 Feb 12
All the best Marvin, you deserve your chance in the premiership. See you next season? prem or champ i dont mind.
Great win last night and a pen save.....great for scotts confidence
coyh
Great win last night and a pen save.....great for scotts confidence
coyh
Croxley Cynic
says...
7:43am Wed 1 Feb 12
I do not wish to sound like I am trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, but surely the reason Bassini withdrew Sordell from the game was not that he was picking the team, but he did not want Sordell to pick up any injuries during the game and scupper any chances of the deal not going through at the last minute.
Seems quite straight forward to me and quite sensible.
Good luck Marv and all the best.
Also Scott Loach saved a penalty last night... that has got to be a first. Can anyone tell me another game where Loach has saved a penalty?
Anyway onwards and upwards!
Yellows! Yellows! Yellows!
Seems quite straight forward to me and quite sensible.
Good luck Marv and all the best.
Also Scott Loach saved a penalty last night... that has got to be a first. Can anyone tell me another game where Loach has saved a penalty?
Anyway onwards and upwards!
Yellows! Yellows! Yellows!
corbindallas
says...
7:45am Wed 1 Feb 12
benson11 wrote:Grow up benson11, the final say on player sales is with the owner, because it is worded as Bassini withdrew him from the squad pobably means he allowed him to go and have a medical instead of playing last night, deals don't happen without one so he couldn't play if a bid was agreed by Bassini.You obviously do not read what is going on a in what order at the club otherwise you wouldn't ask questions that have already been answered. Good luck Sordell you blew hot and cold for us so I guess this is good business in the end and I feel a lot better after last nights result about this. Also good to keep AM at least he is Mr consistent!
Good luck to him, dont think he is good enough for the prem yet. However how come Bassini withdrew him from the game last night? since when does he pick a team. Just goes to show that he does not have the clubs interest at heart. I hope he is going to re-invest the money back into the ground. Mr Bassini if you read these threads what about using the the money to get the corner of the Rookery finished?
akureyri-geitungur
says...
8:04am Wed 1 Feb 12
Good luck to Marvin but last night without him we won the three games previous with him we lost. Two goals last night and one in the three previous matches. He may have been the star forward player but recently we have suffered for our reliance on him. Now is the time to regroup behind the players we still have and wait to see if they are now free of Marvin's shadow.
rousman 2
says...
8:10am Wed 1 Feb 12
Baz should have gone for undisclosed on the fee does not seem enough to me.
LE PARK
says...
8:12am Wed 1 Feb 12
I too wish marvin all the best.Look at the players and managers we've lost over the last 3 years or so.Unbelievble and most seem to have progressed.What a team we could have had if it was not for 3 unwise monkeys having the same wet dream one night.One deserves to be where he is now because of his signings ie wage structure for one or two.Another is probaly sunning himself in the carribean while we freeze our nuts off and the third is hopefully living in a premier inn after living in luxury while helping to bring our club to its knees.Let's face fact's were no more than a feeder club now and with the big boys downgrading our wonderful academy that could be a thing of the past too.Idon;t begrudge anyone bettering themselves apart from the judas in s wales who incidently has cowie taylor and conway who all could still have been hornets but without the strenth and vision of a robust owner who wants nothing but success for HIS club then we are doomed to be what we are.Im reding the book that was advertised in the w/o and it;s a great read.Sadly i fear our time in the sunshine has come and gone just as football for the common man.When it costs you close to 2 ton and £3.50 for a manky pie £4.50 for 1/2 of probaly the worst lager in the world and the manager comes out with we just didn't turn up today.Then maybe its time to give up.Summed it up yesterday when the agebts were moaning that FOOTBALL yes FOOTBALL got in the way of there dealings.Sorry for the rant and am glad the team are putting there best foot fwrds but the futures bright for some but it;s not yellow
jasonwatford
says...
8:28am Wed 1 Feb 12
Do you know what------if we would have got 10 million there would be muppets on here saying its not enough money..suppose Bas is getting a new car etc.....grow up this is watford..John Barnes went for £900,000 when he prob worth shed loads more back in the day. Good sound business and as always we move on. Well done last night lads...did both forwards score ???
Casterbridge
says...
8:28am Wed 1 Feb 12
Le Park: "What a team we could have had if it was not for 3 unwise monkeys having the same wet dream one night".
Not only would we not have had a team, we wouldn't now have a club.
It's one step at a time on the road to rebuilding the club on a sound footing. And buying cheap, developing what we have and selling on are all essential to the future of the club that you seem to want.
Not only would we not have had a team, we wouldn't now have a club.
It's one step at a time on the road to rebuilding the club on a sound footing. And buying cheap, developing what we have and selling on are all essential to the future of the club that you seem to want.
Chris the Vic
says...
8:31am Wed 1 Feb 12
All the best Marvin, a good piece of business all the way round. Good for you and good for WFC.
picking up on your comments Le Park I can only agree with you on the three unwise monkeys, a nice phrase. With regard to Judas he did a lot of good for us and then behaved badly, whereas malky left in the right way and then behaved very badly, but that just about sums up the morality in football.
I hope Mariappa recovers from his Tyneside disappointment, but it must be said that the way Newcastle and Pardew do business openly, obviously unsettles the player and allows them to buy at a discounted price. So glad LB turned their offer down for Mariappa and as pardew says if he doesnt come he may not come at all. Adrian you may have been saved from years on the bench.
As for the money from marvin if there is some left over lets get the corner done in the close season ready for next year and with a new pitch we only then need a new East Stand and we may then look like a well run club which is what we are beginning to be.
In the meantime the stay away fans know where we are and NEED to put their cash through the turnstiles for us to build for the future.
picking up on your comments Le Park I can only agree with you on the three unwise monkeys, a nice phrase. With regard to Judas he did a lot of good for us and then behaved badly, whereas malky left in the right way and then behaved very badly, but that just about sums up the morality in football.
I hope Mariappa recovers from his Tyneside disappointment, but it must be said that the way Newcastle and Pardew do business openly, obviously unsettles the player and allows them to buy at a discounted price. So glad LB turned their offer down for Mariappa and as pardew says if he doesnt come he may not come at all. Adrian you may have been saved from years on the bench.
As for the money from marvin if there is some left over lets get the corner done in the close season ready for next year and with a new pitch we only then need a new East Stand and we may then look like a well run club which is what we are beginning to be.
In the meantime the stay away fans know where we are and NEED to put their cash through the turnstiles for us to build for the future.
Chris the Vic
says...
8:33am Wed 1 Feb 12
Ooops best of luck to David Mirfin and Matty Whichelow with their loan deals
allgood
says...
8:35am Wed 1 Feb 12
The Bolton news says fee is £3 million,
Plus £1 million if they stay up.
Plus £1 million if they stay up.
Bright 1
says...
8:39am Wed 1 Feb 12
LE PARK wrote:We have always been a feeder/selling club. Although, i agree that this is worse with the millions of pounds floating around and ruining our game. I dont know where you're paying £4.50 for half a lager but could i suggest that you drink a really decent pint of ale at the Vic priced at about £3.30
I too wish marvin all the best.Look at the players and managers we've lost over the last 3 years or so.Unbelievble and most seem to have progressed.What a team we could have had if it was not for 3 unwise monkeys having the same wet dream one night.One deserves to be where he is now because of his signings ie wage structure for one or two.Another is probaly sunning himself in the carribean while we freeze our nuts off and the third is hopefully living in a premier inn after living in luxury while helping to bring our club to its knees.Let's face fact's were no more than a feeder club now and with the big boys downgrading our wonderful academy that could be a thing of the past too.Idon;t begrudge anyone bettering themselves apart from the judas in s wales who incidently has cowie taylor and conway who all could still have been hornets but without the strenth and vision of a robust owner who wants nothing but success for HIS club then we are doomed to be what we are.Im reding the book that was advertised in the w/o and it;s a great read.Sadly i fear our time in the sunshine has come and gone just as football for the common man.When it costs you close to 2 ton and £3.50 for a manky pie £4.50 for 1/2 of probaly the worst lager in the world and the manager comes out with we just didn't turn up today.Then maybe its time to give up.Summed it up yesterday when the agebts were moaning that FOOTBALL yes FOOTBALL got in the way of there dealings.Sorry for the rant and am glad the team are putting there best foot fwrds but the futures bright for some but it;s not yellow
bigthunder
says...
8:39am Wed 1 Feb 12
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell
which is conservativley 9m
What has been invested in the team and ground ?
PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked !
new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them
dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it
feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous !
I also call for Graham Taylor to resign
you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use
We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed
BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
which is conservativley 9m
What has been invested in the team and ground ?
PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked !
new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them
dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it
feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous !
I also call for Graham Taylor to resign
you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use
We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed
BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
Edwardz22
says...
8:54am Wed 1 Feb 12
spend the money on the stadium? screw that we sold a player only right to try and bring a replacement in. i can still see empty seats in the rous and rookery what is the point to even start building a new stand when it wont get filled
WFC4ever
says...
9:00am Wed 1 Feb 12
rousman 2 wrote:its probably around 3.5 million with add-ons etc and a sell on clause.
Baz should have gone for undisclosed on the fee does not seem enough to me.
I tend to agree with Edward...there isn't really a rush to build a new stand or even pub TBH.
Good luck to Marvin and hopefully Deeney and Garner can strike up a partnership.
Need another forward in for the bench though as we might as well only have 4 subs if Big Chris has to be one.
garston tony
says...
9:02am Wed 1 Feb 12
Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future.
Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the club
Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the club
WFC4ever
says...
9:03am Wed 1 Feb 12
bigthunder wrote:You got a mate whose interested in taking over...
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
I seem to remember Bassini was the only one who bothered.
People had their chance at the time...
bigthunder
says...
9:12am Wed 1 Feb 12
garston tony wrote:actually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club
Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the club
but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ?
so love to hear from you
clap clap
llloydwithathirdl
says...
9:13am Wed 1 Feb 12
We have always been and will always be a selling club. At least we have the ability to keep churning out more quality players. Good luck Marvin, see you next year. And thank god you didn't go to Cardiff.
not a regular
says...
9:27am Wed 1 Feb 12
Disappointing if there's no sell on fee of at least 15%. As for Marvin, I wish him the best and really hope that he plays, as he is far more suited to the Prem.
As long as he's not on the bench then I think Owen Coyle will do a really good job of bringing him on.
For us, I have confidence in Deeney and Garner, and don't forget the loan market is still around. There are plenty of youngsters waiting in the wings and not to mention those established players that are at clubs and not getting a game.
We also have young Gavin Massey who seems to be doing all the right things down at Yeovil. One for March/April I'd imagine when the games will surely be coming thick and fast.
The only thing that irks is that our business model is more reliant on selling at age 22/23, rather than 20. We'll sadly have to watch the best of Marv on Match of the Day, rather than from the stands.
As long as he's not on the bench then I think Owen Coyle will do a really good job of bringing him on.
For us, I have confidence in Deeney and Garner, and don't forget the loan market is still around. There are plenty of youngsters waiting in the wings and not to mention those established players that are at clubs and not getting a game.
We also have young Gavin Massey who seems to be doing all the right things down at Yeovil. One for March/April I'd imagine when the games will surely be coming thick and fast.
The only thing that irks is that our business model is more reliant on selling at age 22/23, rather than 20. We'll sadly have to watch the best of Marv on Match of the Day, rather than from the stands.
Andrew1963
says...
9:29am Wed 1 Feb 12
When i win £61 million on the Lottery would I buy Watford - of course I will, but you will have to put up with my decisions. I would probably appoint Alan curbishley as Managing director football, and a business manager to look at ways of increasing revenue. Try and persuade another club to share the Ground - Barnet or another Rugby club. I would also have an opinion on the playing staff. i would only commit half of the money. So for £30 million, you might get a few signings, the debts paid off would mean Bassinin would be looking for £15+ million for the club, so maybe just enough to do the corner, but i cannot promise on the new stand. Unless of course i sell the ground freehold (mortgage) to pay for it.
strummerjoe
says...
9:29am Wed 1 Feb 12
bigthunder wrote:We lose £4m a year before player dealing. Every year. That is answer enough.
garston tony wrote: Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the clubactually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ? so love to hear from you clap clap
stevyweavy
says...
9:35am Wed 1 Feb 12
I think it may well turn out to be the best thing for WFC. Everybody keeps saying how important to WFC Sordell is but at times he is a lazy player and he has not looked as good since DG left. Now that the focus can turn away from Sordell and with some much needed cash we can start looking forward. The remaining forwards answered their critics with a goal a piece last night and with the Sean Murray revelation, the new winger, Hogg back and AM not taking the short termist decision of taking the money now hopefully we may have the spur to take us up the table - but let's first see how we do on Saturday.
henry
says...
9:43am Wed 1 Feb 12
I'm left with the feeling that Mapps would also have gone if Newcastle had matched Wigan's bid. Luckily that didn't happen.. it would have looked like assett stripping and not just sensible business !. Anyway 9.5 mill in the Bas hold-all less, say, 2 m repayments, 1 m for player purchase, 3 mill for operating losses, 1 m for ground improvements undertaken so far leaves Bas some cash for fulfilling some promises to the fans and the manager for new pitch,SW corner etc. with Mapps sold in the summer for further repayments.We'll see....
Other strugglers in the Championship
have lost key players (Sharp,Maynard), whilst other teams are taking a punt which could backfire and Pompey are struggling to survive. At least our books are showing signs of being balanced.
We have gained Nos and Kac in the window and Murray has been promoted to the team - not a bad outcome.I suspect we ran out of time on deals for certain QPR players now marginalised at Loftus Road.
The manager and team deserve our support after their superb efforts in the last two matches. It'll be interesting to see if the remaining strikers can work together (and in Iwe's case perhaps the commitment and desire) to make a real impact.
Other strugglers in the Championship
have lost key players (Sharp,Maynard), whilst other teams are taking a punt which could backfire and Pompey are struggling to survive. At least our books are showing signs of being balanced.
We have gained Nos and Kac in the window and Murray has been promoted to the team - not a bad outcome.I suspect we ran out of time on deals for certain QPR players now marginalised at Loftus Road.
The manager and team deserve our support after their superb efforts in the last two matches. It'll be interesting to see if the remaining strikers can work together (and in Iwe's case perhaps the commitment and desire) to make a real impact.
LE PARK
says...
9:47am Wed 1 Feb 12
Iagree we have always been a selling club and still remember with astonishment at the figure digger barnes went for.My valuation on a pint if you read it properly was re an away game and not at the vic.Casterbridge if it wasn't for the 3 unwise monkeys i don't think we would have been thru the dire straits we went and to some extent still go thru and some of the players that were hurridly offloaded could have still been here.Ido hope dyche gets to use some of the latest windfall but sadly only to shore things up'I am pleased and have been crying out for some of the young un's to get a go and am pleased that murray has his chance and some of the old lags have had a kick up the backside and now the team is indeed moving fwrd.
rogeruk
says...
9:57am Wed 1 Feb 12
strummerjoe wrote:Where do you get 4 million a year loss before player sales? Income without players sales is what 6/7 million?
bigthunder wrote:We lose £4m a year before player dealing. Every year. That is answer enough.
garston tony wrote: Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the clubactually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ? so love to hear from you clap clap
Watford have one of lowest income/wages ratios in the championship. What are you saying Interests charges etc show me the numbers and don't refer me to another site you do the numbers.
We sometime forget (me included) SD is in his first season in the championship a very tough apprenticeship.
Watford will probably have two ex managers managing in the premier league do we want to have another? A bit more TLC for SD would not go amiss. There is probably a full team of ex watford players playing in the Premier.
I don't buy we will always be a selling club. The way to break the cycle is as Boothroyd did get us into the premier and manage the money wisely (WBA is a great example).
Watford have a superb academy as did west ham.
Target now is get to 50 points then push for play offs it is possible.
This Watford team is capable (spurs game proved this) what SD did against Spurs is incredible, we can invest some of the Sordell money in two premier player loans to give us the extra push.
tonupchris
says...
10:24am Wed 1 Feb 12
LE PARK wrote:Somebody pass me the rope. Cheer up mate. We won last night and correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've sold players before and we're still here!
I too wish marvin all the best.Look at the players and managers we've lost over the last 3 years or so.Unbelievble and most seem to have progressed.What a team we could have had if it was not for 3 unwise monkeys having the same wet dream one night.One deserves to be where he is now because of his signings ie wage structure for one or two.Another is probaly sunning himself in the carribean while we freeze our nuts off and the third is hopefully living in a premier inn after living in luxury while helping to bring our club to its knees.Let's face fact's were no more than a feeder club now and with the big boys downgrading our wonderful academy that could be a thing of the past too.Idon;t begrudge anyone bettering themselves apart from the judas in s wales who incidently has cowie taylor and conway who all could still have been hornets but without the strenth and vision of a robust owner who wants nothing but success for HIS club then we are doomed to be what we are.Im reding the book that was advertised in the w/o and it;s a great read.Sadly i fear our time in the sunshine has come and gone just as football for the common man.When it costs you close to 2 ton and £3.50 for a manky pie £4.50 for 1/2 of probaly the worst lager in the world and the manager comes out with we just didn't turn up today.Then maybe its time to give up.Summed it up yesterday when the agebts were moaning that FOOTBALL yes FOOTBALL got in the way of there dealings.Sorry for the rant and am glad the team are putting there best foot fwrds but the futures bright for some but it;s not yellow
corbindallas
says...
10:28am Wed 1 Feb 12
bigthunder wrote:You reckon you know what is happening at the club but write your comments as if everything is black and white. Well it is not as straight forward as you make out and life never is, your blinkers need to come off and you obviously have a short memory. Pre Bassini era the club was not having any investment put into it and was being run into the ground literally, debt was growing, money was being syphoned off and infrastructure was stagnant, we were facing administration and only Bassini came forward, (where was your offer)? We are recruiting players we are developing the ground and stadium, yes we sell players but not at first price like old given and results now mean we are 9 points away from the relegation battle which is all positives, we also have a team that at the start of the year looked relegation favourites, we have a new manager that is learning and learning fast and we now have a board, fans and team desire that we want to climb the table rather than just avoid relegation. Also as someone who claims he knows more since when do old debt's get written off on nnew ownership, they don't and are still there, the club is a lose making one with lower crowds and a million pound a month running cost, also player sales does not mean the money is paid in lump sum that is very rare nowadays so how you reckon Mr Bassini is sitting on a pile of money is a joke. From where i sit I see money coming in and going out just as fast 15 players in this season so far,AM I am sure will be signing a new improved contract now, you tell me how many players have gone out and how that has reduced our running costs now compared to the in's!!
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell
which is conservativley 9m
What has been invested in the team and ground ?
PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked !
new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them
dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it
feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous !
I also call for Graham Taylor to resign
you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use
We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed
BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
strummerjoe
says...
10:35am Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:I don't know how this will come out copied and pasted from the accounts, but here goes:
strummerjoe wrote:Where do you get 4 million a year loss before player sales? Income without players sales is what 6/7 million? Watford have one of lowest income/wages ratios in the championship. What are you saying Interests charges etc show me the numbers and don't refer me to another site you do the numbers. We sometime forget (me included) SD is in his first season in the championship a very tough apprenticeship. Watford will probably have two ex managers managing in the premier league do we want to have another? A bit more TLC for SD would not go amiss. There is probably a full team of ex watford players playing in the Premier. I don't buy we will always be a selling club. The way to break the cycle is as Boothroyd did get us into the premier and manage the money wisely (WBA is a great example). Watford have a superb academy as did west ham. Target now is get to 50 points then push for play offs it is possible. This Watford team is capable (spurs game proved this) what SD did against Spurs is incredible, we can invest some of the Sordell money in two premier player loans to give us the extra push.bigthunder wrote:We lose £4m a year before player dealing. Every year. That is answer enough.garston tony wrote: Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the clubactually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ? so love to hear from you clap clap
Turnover 10,995 11,258
Wages and salary costs (9,319) (10,876)
Other operating expenses (5,952) (7,914)
Amortisation and impairment of player registrations (825) (1,372)
Other operating income 1,051 551
Operating loss (4,050) (8,353)
Profit on disposal of player registrations 869 5,129
Net interest charges (170) (465)
Intercompany debt waiver 13,000 -
Profit/(Loss) on ordinary activities before taxation 9,649 (3,689)
First figure in each line 2011, second 2010. Operating loss in 2011 £4m; in 2010 £8m, but wages costs have been largely brought under control.
I hope that is a satisfactory answer - if it is not Roger, you are clearly someone who sees what they want to see (like many others here).
tonupchris
says...
10:36am Wed 1 Feb 12
bigthunder wrote:£4.5m on keeping the club going. New tannoy system, deposit on the pitch, The RedLion (which is a waste of money) work on the corner of The Rookery £1m ish if not more. 10 new players (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees) £2m at least. Total £7.5m. £3m only just received last night which might help us get a loan player or two (wages and fee to their club) and the fact as a business, we will again lose money. Doesn't leave a lot does it. I'm not saying that Bassini is the answer and he may prove not to be but I don't think he's done much wrong and just wondering what people think he should do. Sensible answers only please
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
strummerjoe
says...
10:37am Wed 1 Feb 12
PS All figures are £'000
Hornet123456
says...
10:40am Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk - you cannot compare us to West Brom. They are a much bigger club and get much bigger crowds, even when they were in the Championship. We struggle to sell out a cup tie against a top-3 team in the country, even when we give them a third of the ground.
I'm afraid that unless we find another 5,000 fans willing to come to the Vic week in, week out, we will remain a selling club. (I think the £4m/year operating loss comes from the accounts - from recollection, it was £6m/year for 09/10).
I'm afraid that unless we find another 5,000 fans willing to come to the Vic week in, week out, we will remain a selling club. (I think the £4m/year operating loss comes from the accounts - from recollection, it was £6m/year for 09/10).
rogeruk
says...
10:54am Wed 1 Feb 12
strummerjoe wrote:Thanks for the attempt. I have already seen these numbers. My problem is I query them I want to see the meat on the bones.
rogeruk wrote:I don't know how this will come out copied and pasted from the accounts, but here goes:
strummerjoe wrote:Where do you get 4 million a year loss before player sales? Income without players sales is what 6/7 million? Watford have one of lowest income/wages ratios in the championship. What are you saying Interests charges etc show me the numbers and don't refer me to another site you do the numbers. We sometime forget (me included) SD is in his first season in the championship a very tough apprenticeship. Watford will probably have two ex managers managing in the premier league do we want to have another? A bit more TLC for SD would not go amiss. There is probably a full team of ex watford players playing in the Premier. I don't buy we will always be a selling club. The way to break the cycle is as Boothroyd did get us into the premier and manage the money wisely (WBA is a great example). Watford have a superb academy as did west ham. Target now is get to 50 points then push for play offs it is possible. This Watford team is capable (spurs game proved this) what SD did against Spurs is incredible, we can invest some of the Sordell money in two premier player loans to give us the extra push.bigthunder wrote:We lose £4m a year before player dealing. Every year. That is answer enough.garston tony wrote: Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the clubactually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ? so love to hear from you clap clap
Turnover 10,995 11,258
Wages and salary costs (9,319) (10,876)
Other operating expenses (5,952) (7,914)
Amortisation and impairment of player registrations (825) (1,372)
Other operating income 1,051 551
Operating loss (4,050) (8,353)
Profit on disposal of player registrations 869 5,129
Net interest charges (170) (465)
Intercompany debt waiver 13,000 -
Profit/(Loss) on ordinary activities before taxation 9,649 (3,689)
First figure in each line 2011, second 2010. Operating loss in 2011 £4m; in 2010 £8m, but wages costs have been largely brought under control.
I hope that is a satisfactory answer - if it is not Roger, you are clearly someone who sees what they want to see (like many others here).
Lets talk 2011 numbers £9.319 million for wages. I find this staggering. Watford's income is not this high which means income/wages is over 100% ratio, this is not allowed by football league. No business can run on this basis. We want to see itemised - I simply don't believe it.
Secondly other operating costs;
£5.952 million. Clearly added together this is over £15 million which is of course loss making. Once again £6 million other what does that entail? I find it staggering. £15million expenditure with no itemisation we have no clue what is going on here!
These numbers are so generic they are highly suspicious. I just do not believe them. I would definately not agree wages have been brought under control. They are out of control with these numbers but until itemised we won't know. Overall all I am highly highly suspicious what is going on here. I hope Graham taylor can read a balance sheet and asked the question I am asking and got the answers and understood them.
tommy gunn
says...
10:57am Wed 1 Feb 12
To all the Bassini detractors think Portsmouth,say no more.
rogeruk
says...
11:01am Wed 1 Feb 12
tonupchris wrote:Ref loans; I disagree, 2 x premier league players until end April (14 weeks) at £20K a week each would be a toatal of £560K if the lending club would pay half it would only be a less than £300K investment for watford thats to say less than 10% of the figure Sordell was sold for.
bigthunder wrote:£4.5m on keeping the club going. New tannoy system, deposit on the pitch, The RedLion (which is a waste of money) work on the corner of The Rookery £1m ish if not more. 10 new players (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees) £2m at least. Total £7.5m. £3m only just received last night which might help us get a loan player or two (wages and fee to their club) and the fact as a business, we will again lose money. Doesn't leave a lot does it. I'm not saying that Bassini is the answer and he may prove not to be but I don't think he's done much wrong and just wondering what people think he should do. Sensible answers only please
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
To many generalised comments on here. Posters need to think things through before posting.
rogeruk
says...
11:08am Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:Big Thunder I think you are on to something here. these numbers do not add up. I wonder if GT is experienced enough to know what is going on!
tonupchris wrote:Ref loans; I disagree, 2 x premier league players until end April (14 weeks) at £20K a week each would be a toatal of £560K if the lending club would pay half it would only be a less than £300K investment for watford thats to say less than 10% of the figure Sordell was sold for.
bigthunder wrote:£4.5m on keeping the club going. New tannoy system, deposit on the pitch, The RedLion (which is a waste of money) work on the corner of The Rookery £1m ish if not more. 10 new players (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees) £2m at least. Total £7.5m. £3m only just received last night which might help us get a loan player or two (wages and fee to their club) and the fact as a business, we will again lose money. Doesn't leave a lot does it. I'm not saying that Bassini is the answer and he may prove not to be but I don't think he's done much wrong and just wondering what people think he should do. Sensible answers only please
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
To many generalised comments on here. Posters need to think things through before posting.
I repeat Iam very very suspicious,
Tonupchris numbers are completely out highly generised even wildly exagerated and no where near the real situation. His number ons Sordel and loan signings are pure fantasy as have just posted.
I hope I am wrong but the way things points watford fans are being well and truly shafted as is SD we now have confirmed why BR and MM left the club.
Both of them know the truth but can not speak out because of confidentiality clauses.
RogerF
says...
11:12am Wed 1 Feb 12
Danny Graham was sold for 3 million, Sordell going for more than that seems a fair deal to me. I agree with tonupchris Bass isn't doing that much wrong. If he was after the money he would have sold Adrian Mariappa for the reported 2 million we got offered!
We do need to get out of the cycle of selling our best players. or at least only selling them in the summer!
We do need to get out of the cycle of selling our best players. or at least only selling them in the summer!
rogeruk
says...
11:14am Wed 1 Feb 12
RogerF wrote:Have you understood anything of what I have just written? If you did you couldn't possibly post the rubbish you just have.
Danny Graham was sold for 3 million, Sordell going for more than that seems a fair deal to me. I agree with tonupchris Bass isn't doing that much wrong. If he was after the money he would have sold Adrian Mariappa for the reported 2 million we got offered!
We do need to get out of the cycle of selling our best players. or at least only selling them in the summer!
I have not given an opinion I have asked questions to numbers that don't square, the fact you can't understand me makes me despair for the human race!
Hornet123456
says...
11:22am Wed 1 Feb 12
Rogeruk - the accounts would have been audited, so are likely to be either relatively accurate or a sufficiently sophisticated fraud (perpetrated by successive owners) to deceive the auditors, which is unlikely in my opinion.
I'm sorry you don't believe the numbers, but I suggest you look at the way that so many lower league football clubs are struggling to see that it is very difficult to balance the books at this (or any) level, unless you have a wealthy benefactor as an owner.
Now that certainly isn't Bassini and I am now beginning to worry about his intentions for the club. We can never know what would have happened with Sordell if Mariappa had said 'yes' to Wigan, but it does seem relatively likely to me that they would both have ended up going. Sordell, I can accept, but had they both gone, it would have suggested strongly that he is not thinking long-term.
I guess we'll never know.
I'm sorry you don't believe the numbers, but I suggest you look at the way that so many lower league football clubs are struggling to see that it is very difficult to balance the books at this (or any) level, unless you have a wealthy benefactor as an owner.
Now that certainly isn't Bassini and I am now beginning to worry about his intentions for the club. We can never know what would have happened with Sordell if Mariappa had said 'yes' to Wigan, but it does seem relatively likely to me that they would both have ended up going. Sordell, I can accept, but had they both gone, it would have suggested strongly that he is not thinking long-term.
I guess we'll never know.
jimbuctu
says...
11:30am Wed 1 Feb 12
bigthunder wrote:Can't quite put into words how strongly I disagree with ALL your points.
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell
which is conservativley 9m
What has been invested in the team and ground ?
PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked !
new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them
dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it
feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous !
I also call for Graham Taylor to resign
you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use
We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed
BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
Firstly, would you rather our owner had a £2million house and a Bentley or drove around in a clapped out Fiesta and lived in a 2 bed house in West Watford? (no offence to West Watford I lived there myself!) For me, the fact he's successful and able to afford those perks is very reassuring. Worth noting there is no bank on the planet that would let him buy a house with collateral from the club - because there isn't any!
Secondly, and I'm not sure how many times people need to make this point - the club makes a loss EVERY year. Therefore player sales are a NECESSITY not an optional decision taken by our last few chairmen/owners. We cannot exist at all, or fend off banks or debtors without committing to selling players every year! It's a key part of our business plan and one we execute better than almost any other club at the moment.
Bush Hornet
says...
11:30am Wed 1 Feb 12
The main thing is that Mariappa stays on. I'm happy. All the best to Marvin - thanks for the goals, and thanks for the money. And we won last night...is this the most overlooked result of the season? A clean sheet & Loach saves a penalty. Not bad eh? Gotta love playing Millwall.
strummerjoe
says...
11:32am Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:Oh FFS. They are audited figures. The 2010 figures are pre-Bassini. 'I don't believe them'. Well, what exactly would satisfy you? A print out of the nominal ledger? The detailed P&L will have been sent to the taxman, other than that no company in their right mind would publish sensitive information that it didn't need to.
strummerjoe wrote:Thanks for the attempt. I have already seen these numbers. My problem is I query them I want to see the meat on the bones. Lets talk 2011 numbers £9.319 million for wages. I find this staggering. Watford's income is not this high which means income/wages is over 100% ratio, this is not allowed by football league. No business can run on this basis. We want to see itemised - I simply don't believe it. Secondly other operating costs; £5.952 million. Clearly added together this is over £15 million which is of course loss making. Once again £6 million other what does that entail? I find it staggering. £15million expenditure with no itemisation we have no clue what is going on here! These numbers are so generic they are highly suspicious. I just do not believe them. I would definately not agree wages have been brought under control. They are out of control with these numbers but until itemised we won't know. Overall all I am highly highly suspicious what is going on here. I hope Graham taylor can read a balance sheet and asked the question I am asking and got the answers and understood them.rogeruk wrote:I don't know how this will come out copied and pasted from the accounts, but here goes: Turnover 10,995 11,258 Wages and salary costs (9,319) (10,876) Other operating expenses (5,952) (7,914) Amortisation and impairment of player registrations (825) (1,372) Other operating income 1,051 551 Operating loss (4,050) (8,353) Profit on disposal of player registrations 869 5,129 Net interest charges (170) (465) Intercompany debt waiver 13,000 - Profit/(Loss) on ordinary activities before taxation 9,649 (3,689) First figure in each line 2011, second 2010. Operating loss in 2011 £4m; in 2010 £8m, but wages costs have been largely brought under control. I hope that is a satisfactory answer - if it is not Roger, you are clearly someone who sees what they want to see (like many others here).strummerjoe wrote:Where do you get 4 million a year loss before player sales? Income without players sales is what 6/7 million? Watford have one of lowest income/wages ratios in the championship. What are you saying Interests charges etc show me the numbers and don't refer me to another site you do the numbers. We sometime forget (me included) SD is in his first season in the championship a very tough apprenticeship. Watford will probably have two ex managers managing in the premier league do we want to have another? A bit more TLC for SD would not go amiss. There is probably a full team of ex watford players playing in the Premier. I don't buy we will always be a selling club. The way to break the cycle is as Boothroyd did get us into the premier and manage the money wisely (WBA is a great example). Watford have a superb academy as did west ham. Target now is get to 50 points then push for play offs it is possible. This Watford team is capable (spurs game proved this) what SD did against Spurs is incredible, we can invest some of the Sordell money in two premier player loans to give us the extra push.bigthunder wrote:We lose £4m a year before player dealing. Every year. That is answer enough.garston tony wrote: Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the clubactually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ? so love to hear from you clap clap
Here are some more figures - wages:
Employee information
2010 2009
£'000 £'000
Staff costs:
Wages and salaries 9,947 13,835
Social security costs 1,192 1,565
Other pension costs 60 191
£11,199 £15,591
The average monthly number of persons employed by
the group was as follows: 2010 2009
Number Number
Players 49 48
Coaching staff 31 32
Part-time coaching staff 13 9
Commercial staff 20 33
Part-time commercial staff 17 14
Part-time catering staff 61 54
Administration 10 16
Ground staff 9 10
210 216
Do you suggest closing Harefield maybe to reduce coaching costs? Other areas have already been reduced by a third.
buckler
says...
11:47am Wed 1 Feb 12
bigthunder wrote:At last someone who can see what's going on. Sadly the thermos flask gang will just happily clap us down and wave goodbye to our best players on the cheap! Totally agree with all your points and await the usual response from the blanket brigade! Uornnns!
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell
which is conservativley 9m
What has been invested in the team and ground ?
PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked !
new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them
dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it
feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous !
I also call for Graham Taylor to resign
you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use
We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed
BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
mile high ron
says...
12:00pm Wed 1 Feb 12
RogerF wrote:RF: did you pickup on the crowd numbers against spurs ?
Danny Graham was sold for 3 million, Sordell going for more than that seems a fair deal to me. I agree with tonupchris Bass isn't doing that much wrong. If he was after the money he would have sold Adrian Mariappa for the reported 2 million we got offered! We do need to get out of the cycle of selling our best players. or at least only selling them in the summer!
Just north of 15k eh…
rogeruk
says...
12:03pm Wed 1 Feb 12
jimbuctu wrote:You are as usual referring to an opinion, not facts, Diverting the conversation to levels of inane stupidity about Bentleys and Fiestas etc using hyperbole. This is unconvincing.
bigthunder wrote:Can't quite put into words how strongly I disagree with ALL your points.
SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell
which is conservativley 9m
What has been invested in the team and ground ?
PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked !
new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them
dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it
feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous !
I also call for Graham Taylor to resign
you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use
We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed
BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
Firstly, would you rather our owner had a £2million house and a Bentley or drove around in a clapped out Fiesta and lived in a 2 bed house in West Watford? (no offence to West Watford I lived there myself!) For me, the fact he's successful and able to afford those perks is very reassuring. Worth noting there is no bank on the planet that would let him buy a house with collateral from the club - because there isn't any!
Secondly, and I'm not sure how many times people need to make this point - the club makes a loss EVERY year. Therefore player sales are a NECESSITY not an optional decision taken by our last few chairmen/owners. We cannot exist at all, or fend off banks or debtors without committing to selling players every year! It's a key part of our business plan and one we execute better than almost any other club at the moment.
As for Audits you have more faith than I do! Have you heard of RBS, Northern Rock and many others, their numbers were audited even closely scruitnied by FSA look what went on there? This is the equivalent of believing what politicans say and then voting for them only for them to do the oppisite to what they promised.
Socrates said "Challenge everthing" and was killed for it. People in authority don't like their numbers being challenged; especially governments, coorporations and businesses. Which is precisely why we should challenge.
People in this country are too scared to challenge authority the country is the worse for it that is why there is corruption everywhere.
Transparency is what is needed here. Balance sheets, P & Ls can hide many things using creative accounting.
Lets just say I feel uneasy about something here and the more people shout and become aggresive only enforces my feeling.
Going on about banks not accepting money etc are you aware two unamned indivduals at the moment in a world not too far from us are trying to defend something you say can't happen!
rogeruk
says...
12:11pm Wed 1 Feb 12
In the last six months almost £10 million has been received in player sales and had Marriapa gone could be 12 to 13 million. Player purchases about £1million. By any standard that is a fabulous return on investment even more so considering the entire turnover is only £10.95 million.
I doubt there is any club in the entire football league that can match these numbers, probably most of the premier too.
Didn't Bassini say he had offers to buy the club at very much more than he purchased it? I am not surprised when in only six months player sales and turnover profit is equal to an entire years turnover.
I doubt there is any club in the entire football league that can match these numbers, probably most of the premier too.
Didn't Bassini say he had offers to buy the club at very much more than he purchased it? I am not surprised when in only six months player sales and turnover profit is equal to an entire years turnover.
bigthunder
says...
12:17pm Wed 1 Feb 12
I will just ask again what money has Bassini put into OUR club
not the small money spent on the team from the sales of over 9m i have already detailed
what of our owners personal wealth has gone into the GROUND and TEAM
A pub refit REALLY ! a new tannoy system REALLY ! shareholders paid for there shares yet ?
still the sw corner not even started to be done despite tenders LOL being available since last march FACT i know trust me !
GUYS please please wake up and smell the coffee we are being fleeced
a year from now we will be having same debates trust me, as ground will be the same if still there !
People within the club are very very concerned as i said dark days are ahead
BASSINI will never speak directly to you fans in person
i have said it before will say it again
You can fool some of the people some of the time BUT not all of the people all of the time
not the small money spent on the team from the sales of over 9m i have already detailed
what of our owners personal wealth has gone into the GROUND and TEAM
A pub refit REALLY ! a new tannoy system REALLY ! shareholders paid for there shares yet ?
still the sw corner not even started to be done despite tenders LOL being available since last march FACT i know trust me !
GUYS please please wake up and smell the coffee we are being fleeced
a year from now we will be having same debates trust me, as ground will be the same if still there !
People within the club are very very concerned as i said dark days are ahead
BASSINI will never speak directly to you fans in person
i have said it before will say it again
You can fool some of the people some of the time BUT not all of the people all of the time
Feff
says...
12:19pm Wed 1 Feb 12
I said in a previous posting that Sordell and/or Mariappa would be sold as close to the deadline as possible so that Dyche had no time to replace either of them. My cynicism proved correct. We are now left with only Deeney, Garner and the awful Iwelumo as strikers. Will Bassini give Dyche any money to get a decent striker on loan or will he continue to spend the money on his pet toy - the Red Lion?
tonupchris
says...
12:22pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:There is also a loaning fee for these players. I obviously can't be accurate as I'm not privvy to these kinds of things. However i notice you don't believe the figures printed and that we paid out nearly £10m in wages. That actually works out on average £47k per person which isn't much considering we're in the championship.
tonupchris wrote:Ref loans; I disagree, 2 x premier league players until end April (14 weeks) at £20K a week each would be a toatal of £560K if the lending club would pay half it would only be a less than £300K investment for watford thats to say less than 10% of the figure Sordell was sold for. To many generalised comments on here. Posters need to think things through before posting.bigthunder wrote: SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!£4.5m on keeping the club going. New tannoy system, deposit on the pitch, The RedLion (which is a waste of money) work on the corner of The Rookery £1m ish if not more. 10 new players (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees) £2m at least. Total £7.5m. £3m only just received last night which might help us get a loan player or two (wages and fee to their club) and the fact as a business, we will again lose money. Doesn't leave a lot does it. I'm not saying that Bassini is the answer and he may prove not to be but I don't think he's done much wrong and just wondering what people think he should do. Sensible answers only please
When you say "I don't believe them" what do you think is going on. Do you believe that the club is just creating figures and sending it to Compnies House. Fraud on that scale will put you away for years. They don't make good reading but we all know that but at least we're trying to reduce this. We are in a far better state than many other clubs. I think a lot of people don't think before posting which is why we get some ridiculous posts but some do which is why we get constructive and accurate posts from, in this instance, StrummerJoe. Just to bang on about not believing official accounts just means you're not thinking!
rogeruk
says...
12:30pm Wed 1 Feb 12
strummerjoe wrote:I don't believe in closing Harefield and you using Harefield as part of your hyperbole is typical of someone diverting the conversation away from what needs answering.
rogeruk wrote:Oh FFS. They are audited figures. The 2010 figures are pre-Bassini. 'I don't believe them'. Well, what exactly would satisfy you? A print out of the nominal ledger? The detailed P&L will have been sent to the taxman, other than that no company in their right mind would publish sensitive information that it didn't need to.
strummerjoe wrote:Thanks for the attempt. I have already seen these numbers. My problem is I query them I want to see the meat on the bones. Lets talk 2011 numbers £9.319 million for wages. I find this staggering. Watford's income is not this high which means income/wages is over 100% ratio, this is not allowed by football league. No business can run on this basis. We want to see itemised - I simply don't believe it. Secondly other operating costs; £5.952 million. Clearly added together this is over £15 million which is of course loss making. Once again £6 million other what does that entail? I find it staggering. £15million expenditure with no itemisation we have no clue what is going on here! These numbers are so generic they are highly suspicious. I just do not believe them. I would definately not agree wages have been brought under control. They are out of control with these numbers but until itemised we won't know. Overall all I am highly highly suspicious what is going on here. I hope Graham taylor can read a balance sheet and asked the question I am asking and got the answers and understood them.rogeruk wrote:I don't know how this will come out copied and pasted from the accounts, but here goes: Turnover 10,995 11,258 Wages and salary costs (9,319) (10,876) Other operating expenses (5,952) (7,914) Amortisation and impairment of player registrations (825) (1,372) Other operating income 1,051 551 Operating loss (4,050) (8,353) Profit on disposal of player registrations 869 5,129 Net interest charges (170) (465) Intercompany debt waiver 13,000 - Profit/(Loss) on ordinary activities before taxation 9,649 (3,689) First figure in each line 2011, second 2010. Operating loss in 2011 £4m; in 2010 £8m, but wages costs have been largely brought under control. I hope that is a satisfactory answer - if it is not Roger, you are clearly someone who sees what they want to see (like many others here).strummerjoe wrote:Where do you get 4 million a year loss before player sales? Income without players sales is what 6/7 million? Watford have one of lowest income/wages ratios in the championship. What are you saying Interests charges etc show me the numbers and don't refer me to another site you do the numbers. We sometime forget (me included) SD is in his first season in the championship a very tough apprenticeship. Watford will probably have two ex managers managing in the premier league do we want to have another? A bit more TLC for SD would not go amiss. There is probably a full team of ex watford players playing in the Premier. I don't buy we will always be a selling club. The way to break the cycle is as Boothroyd did get us into the premier and manage the money wisely (WBA is a great example). Watford have a superb academy as did west ham. Target now is get to 50 points then push for play offs it is possible. This Watford team is capable (spurs game proved this) what SD did against Spurs is incredible, we can invest some of the Sordell money in two premier player loans to give us the extra push.bigthunder wrote:We lose £4m a year before player dealing. Every year. That is answer enough.garston tony wrote: Good luck to the lad, dont think he'll do much for them this season but def one for the future. Bigthunder is your post a wind up? If not you appear to totally lack any understanding of the situation at the clubactually garston tony i have a very good understanding of what is going on at the club but please enlighten me with your understanding then because you have nothing to relate to from what you have been told by the owner ? so love to hear from you clap clap
Here are some more figures - wages:
Employee information
2010 2009
£'000 £'000
Staff costs:
Wages and salaries 9,947 13,835
Social security costs 1,192 1,565
Other pension costs 60 191
£11,199 £15,591
The average monthly number of persons employed by
the group was as follows: 2010 2009
Number Number
Players 49 48
Coaching staff 31 32
Part-time coaching staff 13 9
Commercial staff 20 33
Part-time commercial staff 17 14
Part-time catering staff 61 54
Administration 10 16
Ground staff 9 10
210 216
Do you suggest closing Harefield maybe to reduce coaching costs? Other areas have already been reduced by a third.
In fact I would increase investment in Harefield but seriously look at staff reductions and cost in other areas.
Why do you mention 2010 numbers pre bassini I said using 2011 numbers don'r employ superflouous comments. Lets stick to the facts.
Coaching staff is of course indespensible and SD must have what he requires, although most creative people want the moon but they only really need asteroid.
Catering staff can be cut drastically even eliminated by employing a catering company without costs for a persentage of profits and fee for use of premises savings on wages/NI here substantial.
Commercial and part time commercial seems excessive does the commercial side bring in a profit is it self financing can it be better?
Admin/Accounting etc staff seems excessive many tasks can be sub contracted sustantiallialy reducing wages and NI contributions.
Succesful football club = income exceeds expenditure, succesful academy, succesful team and well managed club. Finally good communication and transparency with the fans.
Can you honestly say this has been the case for watford fc these last 10 years - is it the case today?
rogeruk
says...
12:34pm Wed 1 Feb 12
tonupchris wrote:I am thinking but you don't like being challenged! I haven't just said I don't trust the figures I said why I don't like the figures maybe the sublety is lost on you!
rogeruk wrote:There is also a loaning fee for these players. I obviously can't be accurate as I'm not privvy to these kinds of things. However i notice you don't believe the figures printed and that we paid out nearly £10m in wages. That actually works out on average £47k per person which isn't much considering we're in the championship.
tonupchris wrote:Ref loans; I disagree, 2 x premier league players until end April (14 weeks) at £20K a week each would be a toatal of £560K if the lending club would pay half it would only be a less than £300K investment for watford thats to say less than 10% of the figure Sordell was sold for. To many generalised comments on here. Posters need to think things through before posting.bigthunder wrote: SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!£4.5m on keeping the club going. New tannoy system, deposit on the pitch, The RedLion (which is a waste of money) work on the corner of The Rookery £1m ish if not more. 10 new players (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees) £2m at least. Total £7.5m. £3m only just received last night which might help us get a loan player or two (wages and fee to their club) and the fact as a business, we will again lose money. Doesn't leave a lot does it. I'm not saying that Bassini is the answer and he may prove not to be but I don't think he's done much wrong and just wondering what people think he should do. Sensible answers only please
When you say "I don't believe them" what do you think is going on. Do you believe that the club is just creating figures and sending it to Compnies House. Fraud on that scale will put you away for years. They don't make good reading but we all know that but at least we're trying to reduce this. We are in a far better state than many other clubs. I think a lot of people don't think before posting which is why we get some ridiculous posts but some do which is why we get constructive and accurate posts from, in this instance, StrummerJoe. Just to bang on about not believing official accounts just means you're not thinking!
Sy
says...
12:37pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Roger,
You've been very clear that you feel uneasy about the figures appearing in the corporate accounts and have indicated that you are aware of information in the background of which the rest of us are unaware.
As I understand it, your concern is that the figures in the annual accounts for outgoings have been inflated in order to hide the use to which incoming transfer funds have been put.
What you haven't yet done is explain the basis on which you think the outgoings in the corporate accounts have been inflated. If you have a specific basis for that concern then you should maybe say what it is.
One particular figure you queries was the salaries. The majority of Watford's total reported outlay on salaries for last season was player salaries which totalled £6,452,000 (per the annual accounts). That to me doesn't seem particularly out of kilter with what might be expected given we have a reported (but I gather from rumour somewhat loose) maximum wage of £260k basic a year (£5k a week). By way of loose example, we have a total playing staff of around 46. 25 players on the maximum basic wage (so before appearance fees etc... which I'm sure will be included to incentivise performance) would blow through our total outlay on players' wages.
I'm not saying necessarily that you're wrong but I haven't yet seen any basis from you that the reported figures are incorrect.
You've been very clear that you feel uneasy about the figures appearing in the corporate accounts and have indicated that you are aware of information in the background of which the rest of us are unaware.
As I understand it, your concern is that the figures in the annual accounts for outgoings have been inflated in order to hide the use to which incoming transfer funds have been put.
What you haven't yet done is explain the basis on which you think the outgoings in the corporate accounts have been inflated. If you have a specific basis for that concern then you should maybe say what it is.
One particular figure you queries was the salaries. The majority of Watford's total reported outlay on salaries for last season was player salaries which totalled £6,452,000 (per the annual accounts). That to me doesn't seem particularly out of kilter with what might be expected given we have a reported (but I gather from rumour somewhat loose) maximum wage of £260k basic a year (£5k a week). By way of loose example, we have a total playing staff of around 46. 25 players on the maximum basic wage (so before appearance fees etc... which I'm sure will be included to incentivise performance) would blow through our total outlay on players' wages.
I'm not saying necessarily that you're wrong but I haven't yet seen any basis from you that the reported figures are incorrect.
Frankie Frazer
says...
1:04pm Wed 1 Feb 12
I have sat back and read the drivel coming from people using this site for the last 4 years! And now I am going to speak . .
1/How anyone can complain about the situation the club is in now compared to what it was like with the previous owners is beyond belief!
2/ the childish comments coming from clueless cretins calling people happy clappers just because other real fans want to support their club through thick and thin is just pathetic, most of you are grown men Ffc !
3/ it is almost impossible to falsify accounts with the scrutiny football clubs are currently under, so don't be controversial just for affect it's just plain pathetic!
4/ we are a selling club and we need to do that to survive, it's simple . The value MS was sold for Is ok, would have preferred £5 mil but when you compare it to DG who was sold for the same that was more of a loss ! Plus Cisse & Zamora both at £4 mil for proven top level strikers (ok older but experienced) Before anyone quotes Wickham at £10 mil that is a case of the next wonder kid who was closely watched from when he was a young lad, which is different from MS (& CW is quite obviously overpriced which puts clubs off making the same mistake.
Finally before I finish my rant, I am not a happy clapper and LB has a lot of questions that need asking, I am not saying he is perfect but let's be honest and say we are better off then we were under the last regime & until he makes a huge mistake I will stand by him and the club. We are in a recession and life is tough for everyone so let's not presume what is happening lets just do our best to support the team that we all care so much for, we may not all agree but let's all be realistic . I am now ready for the backlash, bring it on !
1/How anyone can complain about the situation the club is in now compared to what it was like with the previous owners is beyond belief!
2/ the childish comments coming from clueless cretins calling people happy clappers just because other real fans want to support their club through thick and thin is just pathetic, most of you are grown men Ffc !
3/ it is almost impossible to falsify accounts with the scrutiny football clubs are currently under, so don't be controversial just for affect it's just plain pathetic!
4/ we are a selling club and we need to do that to survive, it's simple . The value MS was sold for Is ok, would have preferred £5 mil but when you compare it to DG who was sold for the same that was more of a loss ! Plus Cisse & Zamora both at £4 mil for proven top level strikers (ok older but experienced) Before anyone quotes Wickham at £10 mil that is a case of the next wonder kid who was closely watched from when he was a young lad, which is different from MS (& CW is quite obviously overpriced which puts clubs off making the same mistake.
Finally before I finish my rant, I am not a happy clapper and LB has a lot of questions that need asking, I am not saying he is perfect but let's be honest and say we are better off then we were under the last regime & until he makes a huge mistake I will stand by him and the club. We are in a recession and life is tough for everyone so let's not presume what is happening lets just do our best to support the team that we all care so much for, we may not all agree but let's all be realistic . I am now ready for the backlash, bring it on !
Hornet123456
says...
1:06pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Roger - I think Joe's point was that the figures were even worse for year ending 2010, before Bassini took over. So if you think the 2011 figures are so implausible as to mean they must have been cooked up, the same is necessarily true of 2010. Which means that not only is Bas cooking the books, but Lord A was as well.
I'm afraid that your previous posts do not demonstrate the best grasp of accounting.
I'm afraid that your previous posts do not demonstrate the best grasp of accounting.
rogeruk
says...
1:17pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Sy wrote:Thanks for your comment, the 260k I am referring to is nothing to do with the Balancesheet/P&L it is an approximate calculation of how much Watford would pay a premier league player on loan until the end of April multiplied by two. The other £520k being financed by the player's club.
Roger,
You've been very clear that you feel uneasy about the figures appearing in the corporate accounts and have indicated that you are aware of information in the background of which the rest of us are unaware.
As I understand it, your concern is that the figures in the annual accounts for outgoings have been inflated in order to hide the use to which incoming transfer funds have been put.
What you haven't yet done is explain the basis on which you think the outgoings in the corporate accounts have been inflated. If you have a specific basis for that concern then you should maybe say what it is.
One particular figure you queries was the salaries. The majority of Watford's total reported outlay on salaries for last season was player salaries which totalled £6,452,000 (per the annual accounts). That to me doesn't seem particularly out of kilter with what might be expected given we have a reported (but I gather from rumour somewhat loose) maximum wage of £260k basic a year (£5k a week). By way of loose example, we have a total playing staff of around 46. 25 players on the maximum basic wage (so before appearance fees etc... which I'm sure will be included to incentivise performance) would blow through our total outlay on players' wages.
I'm not saying necessarily that you're wrong but I haven't yet seen any basis from you that the reported figures are incorrect.
This was in answer to someone saying something to the effect that the £3million for Sordell would just about cover two loans.
I pointed out using a salary of 20k a week per prem player x 2 would be less than an investment of £300k ie less than 10% of the fee received for Sordell and he/she should not write wild comments..
On the matter of the accounts I will not commit to saying anything substantial until I am privy to the facts which I suspect I won't be allowed to be.
Somebody (possibly 'in the know') has just quoted an average salary of 47k average salary across the entire club approx 200 full and part time personnel which they say is the norm.
Given there is around 200 employees consisting of full and part time personnel such basic iinformation is totally useless. A use of camoflage to disguise high income earners by using low income earners and reaching an average. ( A bit like hiding a tree in a forrest) if you get what I mean?
In another post I have asked for transparency from the club lets see if they respond!
Lastly I make the point that Watford have received around £9million net income (after player purchases) from player trading in the last six months including Sordell which could have been up to £12 million if Marriapa had been sold.
Given Watfor's turnover is around £10 million this is very substantial income, I suggested it is probably betterethan any other league club.
Somebody has said Watford fc is a lot better off than many clubs, Yet many 'less thinking' fans just toe the line believing Watford is on the verge of bankruptcy.
My bottom line if I can't prove some sort of skulduggery (and I would sincerely hope my suspicions to be proved wrong or unfounded) if only for esoteric reasons is to suggest even more investment in the academy a few quality player signings with further cuts in Catering/Admin/Comme
rcial staff and reduction in overall fixed and variable costs.
luther blissett
says...
1:18pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk, I actually think you have lost it. Really, really lost it. Ooh the conspiracy theories!!! Cuckoo, cuckoo.
And BigThunder, I suspect you ARE in the minority about wanting to demonstrate against Bassini. Cuckoo, cuckoo.
And BigThunder, I suspect you ARE in the minority about wanting to demonstrate against Bassini. Cuckoo, cuckoo.
rogeruk
says...
1:21pm Wed 1 Feb 12
luther blissett wrote:And this coming from somebody who calls himself Luther Blissett. Keep taking your tablets!
rogeruk, I actually think you have lost it. Really, really lost it. Ooh the conspiracy theories!!! Cuckoo, cuckoo.
And BigThunder, I suspect you ARE in the minority about wanting to demonstrate against Bassini. Cuckoo, cuckoo.
luther blissett
says...
1:27pm Wed 1 Feb 12
But am I Luther Blissett?
And there was me thinking people incorporated past players into their user names.... Llloydwith a third L, The Jamie Hand Stand, One Rod Thomas...... to name a few.
And there was me thinking you named yourself after Roger Joslyn?
And there was me thinking people incorporated past players into their user names.... Llloydwith a third L, The Jamie Hand Stand, One Rod Thomas...... to name a few.
And there was me thinking you named yourself after Roger Joslyn?
Dickums
says...
1:30pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Frankie Frazer wrote:At last someone I can totally agree with . Thank you for restoring my faith with rational comments rather than the unsubstantiated drivel about "I don`t believe the figures"
I have sat back and read the drivel coming from people using this site for the last 4 years! And now I am going to speak . . 1/How anyone can complain about the situation the club is in now compared to what it was like with the previous owners is beyond belief! 2/ the childish comments coming from clueless cretins calling people happy clappers just because other real fans want to support their club through thick and thin is just pathetic, most of you are grown men Ffc ! 3/ it is almost impossible to falsify accounts with the scrutiny football clubs are currently under, so don't be controversial just for affect it's just plain pathetic! 4/ we are a selling club and we need to do that to survive, it's simple . The value MS was sold for Is ok, would have preferred £5 mil but when you compare it to DG who was sold for the same that was more of a loss ! Plus Cisse & Zamora both at £4 mil for proven top level strikers (ok older but experienced) Before anyone quotes Wickham at £10 mil that is a case of the next wonder kid who was closely watched from when he was a young lad, which is different from MS (& CW is quite obviously overpriced which puts clubs off making the same mistake. Finally before I finish my rant, I am not a happy clapper and LB has a lot of questions that need asking, I am not saying he is perfect but let's be honest and say we are better off then we were under the last regime & until he makes a huge mistake I will stand by him and the club. We are in a recession and life is tough for everyone so let's not presume what is happening lets just do our best to support the team that we all care so much for, we may not all agree but let's all be realistic . I am now ready for the backlash, bring it on !
Good result last night onwards and upwards.
tonupchris
says...
1:37pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:They are generalised as you say but I do point this out as I'm not privvy to this information. With regards to the Sordell money I am not suggesting that it all goes on two loan players but that a part of it will and some will go on the running of club which won't leave much left. Of the money gained from selling the three players last summer £4m went to keep club going as well documented. Ground improvement pitch plus Red Lion is probably in excess of £1m which would make things worse. £2m on new players. 10 players signed. Garner was £200k and Hogg was £300k, Dickinson £250k. Yeates and Forsyth undisclosed but lets say £100k each. With agents fee's lets call it £1m. 10 players on £3k a week (probably more) over 52 weeks is just over £1.5m. That totals £7.5m. If this is all wrong and we've got plenty left over let me and more importantly SD know but when you lose £4m a year you are never going to have much spare cash. The fact that Mackay and Rodgers haven't said anything is that there may not be anything to say not because of confidentiality. What you have said is pure guess work without any kind of proof.
rogeruk wrote:Big Thunder I think you are on to something here. these numbers do not add up. I wonder if GT is experienced enough to know what is going on! I repeat Iam very very suspicious, Tonupchris numbers are completely out highly generised even wildly exagerated and no where near the real situation. His number ons Sordel and loan signings are pure fantasy as have just posted. I hope I am wrong but the way things points watford fans are being well and truly shafted as is SD we now have confirmed why BR and MM left the club. Both of them know the truth but can not speak out because of confidentiality clauses.tonupchris wrote:Ref loans; I disagree, 2 x premier league players until end April (14 weeks) at £20K a week each would be a toatal of £560K if the lending club would pay half it would only be a less than £300K investment for watford thats to say less than 10% of the figure Sordell was sold for. To many generalised comments on here. Posters need to think things through before posting.bigthunder wrote: SO since the summer i.e around 7 months we have sold DG 3.5m , WB 1m, received over 1.5m from Ashley Young sell on , now 3m + for sordell which is conservativley 9m What has been invested in the team and ground ? PLEASE WAKE UP EVERYBODY and realise your club is being ransacked ! new bentleys new houses somethings got to pay for them dark days are upon wfc and watford fans just sit and take it feel very sorry for Dyche although i admit i am not a big fan of his what he is having to put up with is scandalous ! I also call for Graham Taylor to resign you sit there on your hands saying nothing Mr Taylor watching the club you say you care about being well i won't say the word i want to use We are at home saturday everybody really feel it is time to let the owner know our feelings assuming i am not in the minority who feel we are being destroyed BASSINI OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!£4.5m on keeping the club going. New tannoy system, deposit on the pitch, The RedLion (which is a waste of money) work on the corner of The Rookery £1m ish if not more. 10 new players (wages, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees) £2m at least. Total £7.5m. £3m only just received last night which might help us get a loan player or two (wages and fee to their club) and the fact as a business, we will again lose money. Doesn't leave a lot does it. I'm not saying that Bassini is the answer and he may prove not to be but I don't think he's done much wrong and just wondering what people think he should do. Sensible answers only please
rogeruk
says...
1:39pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Hornet123456 wrote:What is with people like you than take on ethe need need to explain another contributer's point!
Roger - I think Joe's point was that the figures were even worse for year ending 2010, before Bassini took over. So if you think the 2011 figures are so implausible as to mean they must have been cooked up, the same is necessarily true of 2010. Which means that not only is Bas cooking the books, but Lord A was as well.
I'm afraid that your previous posts do not demonstrate the best grasp of accounting.
The reason I said use 2011 numbers is because 2010 has gone its history and before Bassani.
As you know; being as clever as you are, Bassini assumed responsibility and acountability for watford since the takeover.
There is no point in going back to the previous regime unless the authorities think there is reason to do so given its Lord 'A' pigs will fly before this happens.
Don't put words in my mouth I said I challenge them which is not the same as implausible suggest you change your reading from the Beano to a good dictionary.
As to your final comment, it's in line and similar to the same old generic claptrap posted by your friends, ie giving an opinion based on false and/or lack of understanding.
I have given very detailed explanations questioning the accounts if you can't understand that then I suggest you seek help.
Finally the approx £10 million net income from player sales in the last six months will be in 2012 accounts. I am assuming costs personnel etc will be similar to those of 2011.
It will be interesting to see if the economy cost cutting have continued, to my mind there are too many non-essential personnel in a company turning over £10 million less player sales in 2012.
I also question the company's unit costs suggesting some things in which to reduce them further.
Now come down of your high horse, you are obviously giddy up there, take a long lie down in a darkened room to rest your weary little brain.
rogeruk
says...
1:42pm Wed 1 Feb 12
luther blissett wrote:Men in white coats will be around to pick you up shortly, don't despair help is on the way prepare for some EST.
But am I Luther Blissett?
And there was me thinking people incorporated past players into their user names.... Llloydwith a third L, The Jamie Hand Stand, One Rod Thomas...... to name a few.
And there was me thinking you named yourself after Roger Joslyn?
Hornet123456
says...
1:45pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Someone put him out of his misery.
RogerF
says...
1:47pm Wed 1 Feb 12
mile high ron wrote:*Eats humble pie*
RogerF wrote:RF: did you pickup on the crowd numbers against spurs ?
Danny Graham was sold for 3 million, Sordell going for more than that seems a fair deal to me. I agree with tonupchris Bass isn't doing that much wrong. If he was after the money he would have sold Adrian Mariappa for the reported 2 million we got offered! We do need to get out of the cycle of selling our best players. or at least only selling them in the summer!
Just north of 15k eh…
Anyways i am ducking out of this debate as there is far too much Rogering!
henry
says...
1:49pm Wed 1 Feb 12
The financial position at the Club remains uncertain and the lack of openness inevitably leads to some negative speculation and disillusion which is reflected not just on the boards but also in the reduced gates ( of course there are other factors here).
We recently learned that Bas' financial people are investigating the possibility of refinancing and paying off the loans due to A and S - this will put the whole into Bas's hands with continuing obscurity about the balance sheet and scepticism about Bas' intentions for the club.
Given the extravagance of some previous regimes and the 'rewards for failure' culture etc that once prevailed a bit of scepticism/cynicism from supporters strikes me as inevitable, even healthy.
Bas has stated some good intentions for improvements both on and off the field. The realisation of commitments to replace the pitch, sort out the SW corner etc in the next six months may encourage club supporters to feel that there is some prospect that the stated good intentions might actually be translated into reality.
We recently learned that Bas' financial people are investigating the possibility of refinancing and paying off the loans due to A and S - this will put the whole into Bas's hands with continuing obscurity about the balance sheet and scepticism about Bas' intentions for the club.
Given the extravagance of some previous regimes and the 'rewards for failure' culture etc that once prevailed a bit of scepticism/cynicism from supporters strikes me as inevitable, even healthy.
Bas has stated some good intentions for improvements both on and off the field. The realisation of commitments to replace the pitch, sort out the SW corner etc in the next six months may encourage club supporters to feel that there is some prospect that the stated good intentions might actually be translated into reality.
rogeruk
says...
1:54pm Wed 1 Feb 12
The Editors of the Daily Mirror and Sun tell their journalists don't write a piece that takes the average man more than three minutes to read otherwise he will get bored.
Guess I am unlucky today 95% here is a Sun or Mirror reader.
Guess I am unlucky today 95% here is a Sun or Mirror reader.
Bush Hornet
says...
2:03pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Unbelievable load of junk coming from some on this thread. It's no wonder you don't have a job RogeRuk, but find something else to do, it's so dull. Let's talk about how great it is that we never sold AM for a pittance
tonupchris
says...
2:16pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:From what you've written today I presume you used to read the Sunday Sport. Mildly amusing but full of drivel.
The Editors of the Daily Mirror and Sun tell their journalists don't write a piece that takes the average man more than three minutes to read otherwise he will get bored. Guess I am unlucky today 95% here is a Sun or Mirror reader.
tonupchris
says...
2:23pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Whatever happens you can never call it dull and I imagine that most sides outside of the premier league have the same discussions going on all the time. There is nothing any of us can do and please god let's not go down the demonstration route again. It generally has a negative effect on the team and at the moment is totally unnecessary. Lets get behind the team and hope for 3 points Saturday. We can all have this discussion again in July when we sell Mariappa for £1m
Alex Hillcroft
says...
2:35pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Interesting to note that Palace - who are now being very well run by a chairman and board with the club and the fans' best interests at heart - felt able to turn down a £7m bid from Bolton for Zaha, while Laurence 'No company that I have been associated with has ever been successful' Baz rolled over for £3m.
Changing gear, lest we forget, a very welcome three points at the Den last night. One brilliant save from Loach in the first half and a good stop from the penalty - but it was his rush of blood and clumsy dive into a Millwall player in the box that gave it away in the first place.
And although they both scored, I can't see Garner and Deeney getting the goals we need to ensure a respectable mid-table finish.
Also, while it's a good laugh bringing Iwelumo on with 15 minutes to go when we're 2-0 up, it's very depressing to think that we might be relying on him to come off the bench and get us an equaliser/score us the winner at some point.
Changing gear, lest we forget, a very welcome three points at the Den last night. One brilliant save from Loach in the first half and a good stop from the penalty - but it was his rush of blood and clumsy dive into a Millwall player in the box that gave it away in the first place.
And although they both scored, I can't see Garner and Deeney getting the goals we need to ensure a respectable mid-table finish.
Also, while it's a good laugh bringing Iwelumo on with 15 minutes to go when we're 2-0 up, it's very depressing to think that we might be relying on him to come off the bench and get us an equaliser/score us the winner at some point.
garston tony
says...
2:50pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Bigthunter I think your idiotic response to my comment has been answered well by others.
RogerUK, as others have also said the accounts are audited. The figures given are the top lines but the whole accounts were released if I remember correctly and if you do your own homework you'll be able to delve deaper and see exactly where the money has been spent. As someone else has asked where is your own proof of wrong doing (I apologised if you did respond to that, its quite a trawl of posts today).
Yes RBS, Northern Rock etc were audited and their accounts looked good UNTIL the property market collapsed in the US and all the toxic bonds they had bought into became worthless and a liability. I'm sure their audits since havent been so rosy. Take it from someone who runs his own company audits ARE thorough, Watford FC is a small organisation at the end of the day and it would be extremely difficult to hide if money was being taken out by the owner or anyone else. So again I would refer you to the full statement of accounts.
I also have to agree with the previous poster who pointed out that things would be far worse under the previous ownership (whose communication wasn’t the best, whose only interest was their own pocket, who would have sold players left right and centre and not invested anything into the squad and certainly would not have been looking at ground improvements).
Just because we don’t accept your own personal opinion that something is wrong does not make us happy clappy.
RogerUK, as others have also said the accounts are audited. The figures given are the top lines but the whole accounts were released if I remember correctly and if you do your own homework you'll be able to delve deaper and see exactly where the money has been spent. As someone else has asked where is your own proof of wrong doing (I apologised if you did respond to that, its quite a trawl of posts today).
Yes RBS, Northern Rock etc were audited and their accounts looked good UNTIL the property market collapsed in the US and all the toxic bonds they had bought into became worthless and a liability. I'm sure their audits since havent been so rosy. Take it from someone who runs his own company audits ARE thorough, Watford FC is a small organisation at the end of the day and it would be extremely difficult to hide if money was being taken out by the owner or anyone else. So again I would refer you to the full statement of accounts.
I also have to agree with the previous poster who pointed out that things would be far worse under the previous ownership (whose communication wasn’t the best, whose only interest was their own pocket, who would have sold players left right and centre and not invested anything into the squad and certainly would not have been looking at ground improvements).
Just because we don’t accept your own personal opinion that something is wrong does not make us happy clappy.
rogeruk
says...
2:55pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Bush Hornet wrote:This dull conversation as you call it is helping to keep your club on an even keel because if questions are not asked and people not challenged bad things can happen.
Unbelievable load of junk coming from some on this thread. It's no wonder you don't have a job RogeRuk, but find something else to do, it's so dull. Let's talk about how great it is that we never sold AM for a pittance
Was it dull when people like me and some others were warning you and your friends on here that Simpson and Boothroyd through their profligacy almost led the club to disappear?
You didn’t take any notice did you? Did you enjoy that, did you enjoy being screwed by Simpson? Bush Hornet. So enjoyable you want it to happen again?
Simpson told you whatever happens; money for the new stand is ring-fenced and you believed him didn’t you?
Isn't it unbelievable how so many people shy away from seeking the truth, living their lives in self-denial and delusion? Life at times is so uncomfortable most people will do anything to avoid having to deal with it.
Recognise yourself Bush Hornet?
People in places of power and influence do bad things because people like you allow them to go unchallenged. Of course in your case you can always use ignorance as an excuse.
Bush Hornet
says...
3:14pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:Well done Rog. Grateful to you for keeping this club on an even keel as you put it. Big bad Bas hasn't done that at all has he?
Bush Hornet wrote:This dull conversation as you call it is helping to keep your club on an even keel because if questions are not asked and people not challenged bad things can happen.
Unbelievable load of junk coming from some on this thread. It's no wonder you don't have a job RogeRuk, but find something else to do, it's so dull. Let's talk about how great it is that we never sold AM for a pittance
Was it dull when people like me and some others were warning you and your friends on here that Simpson and Boothroyd through their profligacy almost led the club to disappear?
You didn’t take any notice did you? Did you enjoy that, did you enjoy being screwed by Simpson? Bush Hornet. So enjoyable you want it to happen again?
Simpson told you whatever happens; money for the new stand is ring-fenced and you believed him didn’t you?
Isn't it unbelievable how so many people shy away from seeking the truth, living their lives in self-denial and delusion? Life at times is so uncomfortable most people will do anything to avoid having to deal with it.
Recognise yourself Bush Hornet?
People in places of power and influence do bad things because people like you allow them to go unchallenged. Of course in your case you can always use ignorance as an excuse.
rogeruk
says...
3:21pm Wed 1 Feb 12
garston tony wrote:Normal load of drivel gartson tony. I seem to remember you are a fanatical fan of the salad munchers. Oh yeah what happened there? Did'nt they threaten to destroy Watford fc using devious methods to get their money even threatened to sue GT.
Bigthunter I think your idiotic response to my comment has been answered well by others.
RogerUK, as others have also said the accounts are audited. The figures given are the top lines but the whole accounts were released if I remember correctly and if you do your own homework you'll be able to delve deaper and see exactly where the money has been spent. As someone else has asked where is your own proof of wrong doing (I apologised if you did respond to that, its quite a trawl of posts today).
Yes RBS, Northern Rock etc were audited and their accounts looked good UNTIL the property market collapsed in the US and all the toxic bonds they had bought into became worthless and a liability. I'm sure their audits since havent been so rosy. Take it from someone who runs his own company audits ARE thorough, Watford FC is a small organisation at the end of the day and it would be extremely difficult to hide if money was being taken out by the owner or anyone else. So again I would refer you to the full statement of accounts.
I also have to agree with the previous poster who pointed out that things would be far worse under the previous ownership (whose communication wasn’t the best, whose only interest was their own pocket, who would have sold players left right and centre and not invested anything into the squad and certainly would not have been looking at ground improvements).
Just because we don’t accept your own personal opinion that something is wrong does not make us happy clappy.
You are another one of these deluded people in self-denial, see my post to bushy hornet you're obviously buddies.
What’s that you say; Northern Rock accounts looked good (when audited) you make the point for me; looked good but in reality were catastrophic proves my point succinctly. As to a property crash being at fault I think you will find it was bad management, over reaching with idiotic lending policies which caused NR to collapse. RBS made crazy acquisitions for which they paid well over the odds as well as lending too much money to some various dodgy Russian billionaires.
Any time you want an exchange on derivatives, fractional banking and QE 1, 2 & 3, let me know.
With your history of fanatical support for previous regimes that nearly brought Watford fc to its knees, who can take you seriously? You have no credibility!
"Take it from someone who runs his own company audits" you say - how pompous is that? At your level of business what is it a corner shop? You are not clever enough to deviate but some very clever wicked people much further up the 'food chain' can and do it all the time.
Trouble is you think small because that’s what you are ‘a small little man’!
Alex Hillcroft
says...
3:32pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Roger - this is excellent stuff! Haven't enjoyed a thread on this site so much since 'I Love Baz' - or whatever he called himself - was sent to Siberia! Furthermore, I suspect your doubts about the propriety of our new owner will prove justified in the not too distant future.
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
rogeruk
says...
3:32pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Bush Hornet wrote:Interesting you haven’t answered one of my questions. Is that the best you can do?
rogeruk wrote:Well done Rog. Grateful to you for keeping this club on an even keel as you put it. Big bad Bas hasn't done that at all has he?
Bush Hornet wrote:This dull conversation as you call it is helping to keep your club on an even keel because if questions are not asked and people not challenged bad things can happen.
Unbelievable load of junk coming from some on this thread. It's no wonder you don't have a job RogeRuk, but find something else to do, it's so dull. Let's talk about how great it is that we never sold AM for a pittance
Was it dull when people like me and some others were warning you and your friends on here that Simpson and Boothroyd through their profligacy almost led the club to disappear?
You didn’t take any notice did you? Did you enjoy that, did you enjoy being screwed by Simpson? Bush Hornet. So enjoyable you want it to happen again?
Simpson told you whatever happens; money for the new stand is ring-fenced and you believed him didn’t you?
Isn't it unbelievable how so many people shy away from seeking the truth, living their lives in self-denial and delusion? Life at times is so uncomfortable most people will do anything to avoid having to deal with it.
Recognise yourself Bush Hornet?
People in places of power and influence do bad things because people like you allow them to go unchallenged. Of course in your case you can always use ignorance as an excuse.
Now you call him Big Bad Bas a few moments ago you were his loyal fan - what's happened Bushy - changed your mind?
Further proof you are in complete denial - you know I am right to question and challenge football regimes but you can't bring yourself to say it. Classic case of delusional!
Oh just in case you and others think I have got nothing better to do - you are right - at least today. I am a long way from cold Watford in a very sunny place with the temperature well into the twenties, taking a day off to enjoy my football.
Do you have a problem with that too?
rogeruk
says...
3:35pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Alex Hillcroft wrote:Careful Alex, I normally charge for this sort of thing!
Roger - this is excellent stuff! Haven't enjoyed a thread on this site so much since 'I Love Baz' - or whatever he called himself - was sent to Siberia! Furthermore, I suspect your doubts about the propriety of our new owner will prove justified in the not too distant future.
Keep up the good work!
Anyway good luck and keep well.
Bush Hornet
says...
3:42pm Wed 1 Feb 12
You don't spot irony do you chap? Not interested in answering your questions. I'm sorry for calling you dull. You're not. You're just slightly unhinged. And you have too much time. I know it's cold today but try going for a walk.
rogeruk
says...
3:48pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Bush Hornet wrote:What come back for more? I got the irony but turned it around on you but being the bird brain you are you didn't get it. Now go away!
You don't spot irony do you chap? Not interested in answering your questions. I'm sorry for calling you dull. You're not. You're just slightly unhinged. And you have too much time. I know it's cold today but try going for a walk.
Frankie Frazer
says...
3:52pm Wed 1 Feb 12
What an absolute fool u r Alex! Palace reject £7 million for Zaha, it wasnt even close to that, I suppose your Jim White! . There is no way you and Roger are real WFC fans, 100% wind up merchants that should be ignored . IMO . Also could not give a T0ss if you don't care what I think .
Alex Hillcroft
says...
4:10pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Frankie Frazer wrote:"There is no way you and Roger are real WFC fans, 100% wind up merchants that should be ignored"
What an absolute fool u r Alex! Palace reject £7 million for Zaha, it wasnt even close to that, I suppose your Jim White! . There is no way you and Roger are real WFC fans, 100% wind up merchants that should be ignored . IMO . Also could not give a T0ss if you don't care what I think .
Why not ignore us then? Imbecile.
Bush Hornet
says...
4:10pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:I've enjoyed our banter, Roger. Really I have.
Bush Hornet wrote:What come back for more? I got the irony but turned it around on you but being the bird brain you are you didn't get it. Now go away!
You don't spot irony do you chap? Not interested in answering your questions. I'm sorry for calling you dull. You're not. You're just slightly unhinged. And you have too much time. I know it's cold today but try going for a walk.
rogeruk
says...
4:18pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Frankie Frazer wrote:And your source for this nugget of information is?
What an absolute fool u r Alex! Palace reject £7 million for Zaha, it wasnt even close to that, I suppose your Jim White! . There is no way you and Roger are real WFC fans, 100% wind up merchants that should be ignored . IMO . Also could not give a T0ss if you don't care what I think .
So tell me what is a real fan - I'm asking because you profess to know?
Why do you resort to profanity to make your point - is it because you have limited vocabulary?
Portsmouth fans support their club through thick and thin as you put it - look what has happened there? How are their books by the way? Oh yeah you say it can never happen. Is that what you want for our club?
If you are not a happy clapper (as you say) being the expert you are can you define a happy clapper?
If in a years time and things are worse than they are now because you the real fan supported Bas through thick and thin (as you put it) will you apologise or will employ selective memory and foreget you ever wrote it.
What is your definition of clueless cretins? give detailed answer. Childish comments - does that include profanity - after all you are a grown man.
Will you answer all my questions as this author of this rant (as you put it) will you be accountable for what you have written?
luther blissett
says...
4:31pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk, do you live in a parallel universe? Your views have honestly knocked me sideways today as I cannot see for one minute where you are coming from.
rogeruk
says...
4:35pm Wed 1 Feb 12
luther blissett wrote:E=mc²
rogeruk, do you live in a parallel universe? Your views have honestly knocked me sideways today as I cannot see for one minute where you are coming from.
Mick, Bray
says...
5:02pm Wed 1 Feb 12
The facts are that there has been poor communication with all the recent and current owners except the Russo Bros! They told us the facts as they are face to face at the forums.
This is why fans are staying away plus the recession hasn't helped either. If Bas did not perform stupid PR own goals (esp with his background) he would have much more chance
of supporters believing him!
I am reserving judgement on Bankrupt Baz until later this year before the start of the new season when he promised new pitch and work on SW corner will be completed.
Since he has taken over he has inherited the following cash through club assets,
DG-3.5M
WB-1M
AY-1.5M
MS-3M (rising to 4M if Bolton stay up)
Saracens 800K( for half a season)
MM & Backroom-400k
If you add this up plus another 800K from Saracens then the total comes to 12Million if Bolton stay up. Not bad for a club in the championship and all in 11 months, without our usual turnover of around 10Million.
He has also thankfully saved cash on the wage bill with NE on a reported 25K week now released. This would have happened whoever took over the club so i hardly think we have BAs to thank for selling these assets.
This is why fans are staying away plus the recession hasn't helped either. If Bas did not perform stupid PR own goals (esp with his background) he would have much more chance
of supporters believing him!
I am reserving judgement on Bankrupt Baz until later this year before the start of the new season when he promised new pitch and work on SW corner will be completed.
Since he has taken over he has inherited the following cash through club assets,
DG-3.5M
WB-1M
AY-1.5M
MS-3M (rising to 4M if Bolton stay up)
Saracens 800K( for half a season)
MM & Backroom-400k
If you add this up plus another 800K from Saracens then the total comes to 12Million if Bolton stay up. Not bad for a club in the championship and all in 11 months, without our usual turnover of around 10Million.
He has also thankfully saved cash on the wage bill with NE on a reported 25K week now released. This would have happened whoever took over the club so i hardly think we have BAs to thank for selling these assets.
Frankie Frazer
says...
5:48pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Alex please Define the meaning of imbecile? Is it someone that supports their team, doesn't get involved in conspiracy theories, understands that the team he supports needs to sell players to survive . Or is it the cretin who does the opposite of that just to wind people up ? You have nothing interesting to say so why bother saying anything at all, your opinions are so ridiculous that most people just pity u anyway !
Imbecile is that really the best you can come up with ... Go and wipe your feet and come back with something constructive and interesting to debate rather then talk complete and utter rubbish you fool!
Imbecile is that really the best you can come up with ... Go and wipe your feet and come back with something constructive and interesting to debate rather then talk complete and utter rubbish you fool!
luther blissett
says...
7:34pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Bas has confirmed on the official site that he wanted to double Marvin's wages but his agent said they would just run down his contract, so we had to cash on now. Is this too far fetched for you rogeruk? Is it all lies? What conspiracy theory can you think of about this?
I would suggest it is true otherwise he could find himself in court for slander.
I would suggest it is true otherwise he could find himself in court for slander.
Alex Hillcroft
says...
8:12pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Frankie Frazer wrote:Imbecile was a medical term used to describe a person with moderate to severe mental retardation. It arises from the Latin word imbecillus, meaning weak, or weak-minded. "Imbecile" was once applied to people with an IQ of 26-50, between "moron" (IQ of 51-70) and "idiot" (IQ of 0-25).
Alex please Define the meaning of imbecile? Is it someone that supports their team, doesn't get involved in conspiracy theories, understands that the team he supports needs to sell players to survive . Or is it the cretin who does the opposite of that just to wind people up ? You have nothing interesting to say so why bother saying anything at all, your opinions are so ridiculous that most people just pity u anyway !
Imbecile is that really the best you can come up with ... Go and wipe your feet and come back with something constructive and interesting to debate rather then talk complete and utter rubbish you fool!
overthemooney
says...
8:24pm Wed 1 Feb 12
The Fat Gooner only has one more asset to offload and then he will be selling his backside. At least while it is occupied he wont be talking out of it! £3M for Sordell?? - great negotiating! No wonder all of your previous business ventures have gone tits up, which ironically is what you did when you were on holiday. Take the money from Bolton and go and buy a holiday home in the Alps - somewhere really high up in the Alps - somewhere really near the edge. Before I make my final suggestion, have any of you noticed that Loz's head is always leaning to the side in all of his pictures? Is this A - he is just an unfortunate looking sod? B -his pockets are full of biscuits he has just nicked from the biscuit tin? or C - his pockets are full of the cash he has just robbed from OUR football club? And incase you needed me to suggest what the Fat Gooner needs to do next, fall off the top of the mountain just like Barry Evans did in Eastenders. (The answer to tonights quiz was A,B & C)
luther blissett
says...
8:44pm Wed 1 Feb 12
I don't understand why people say LB is taking as much as he can raise from the club but then saying he is selling people cheap.
Surely this is a contradiction?
Surely this is a contradiction?
Frankie Frazer
says...
9:00pm Wed 1 Feb 12
Well done, it shows that google can help anyone! Anyway it's a perfect description for a negative bell end who can't think of anything positive to say about the club he is supposed to support . Your boring me now as you have had nothing constructive to say and your come backs r poor to say the least .
strummerjoe
says...
10:28pm Wed 1 Feb 12
rogeruk - one last comment from me (a Chartered Accountant by the way) - normally when people falsify accounts they try to make them look better, not worse (Northern Rock, Enron, Parmelat etc etc) Don't think I've ever come across falsifying them to make them worse apart from a little bit here and there to minimise tax.
rogeruk
says...
12:51am Thu 2 Feb 12
strummerjoe wrote:Don't know where you got that idea from, my point was exactly that they produced accounts to look better They did not want to give the true state of their business.
rogeruk - one last comment from me (a Chartered Accountant by the way) - normally when people falsify accounts they try to make them look better, not worse (Northern Rock, Enron, Parmelat etc etc) Don't think I've ever come across falsifying them to make them worse apart from a little bit here and there to minimise tax.
Considering they were audited at great costs by chartered accountants and overseen by the FSA doesn't say much for your profession does it?
The real point on here is most of these fans are sheeple they believe anything anyone in authority tells them. Most of them are natural forelock touchers.
Given your profession screwed up so much if you check the UK budget deficit and long term debt between the banks and your auditing you well and truly messed up the economy.which will harm generations to come.
The real scale of catastrophe started in 2008 after the bail out to banks. Just look at the numbers.
garston tony
says...
9:31am Thu 2 Feb 12
Roger(prat)UK, I supported the Russo's because they were FAR FAR better than Lord A et al. You cant point out the stupidity going on under Lord A's tenure then moan about the guys who brought stability to the club. Their 'threat' was in the full knowledge that Lord A would stump up the cash and the club would not enter admin.
As to audits have YOU run a company and been audited many a year? The point is all the money (incoming and outgoing) is accounted for, what part of this simple fact are you having dificulty to grasp? Do your own homework, look at the full accounts yourself and bring to us concrete examples of where money is being syphoned off by Bas or anyone else and not imaginary nothings which is all you have. You pull up others for not answering your questions but you have been asked for proof for your own beliefs, so where is it?
I'm glad that I;m not the only one that can see the obvious inconsistencies in your argument and seeing as I like to give the benefit of the doubt I'd like to think you are still on a wind up and not the complete muppet you're portraying yourself as.
As to audits have YOU run a company and been audited many a year? The point is all the money (incoming and outgoing) is accounted for, what part of this simple fact are you having dificulty to grasp? Do your own homework, look at the full accounts yourself and bring to us concrete examples of where money is being syphoned off by Bas or anyone else and not imaginary nothings which is all you have. You pull up others for not answering your questions but you have been asked for proof for your own beliefs, so where is it?
I'm glad that I;m not the only one that can see the obvious inconsistencies in your argument and seeing as I like to give the benefit of the doubt I'd like to think you are still on a wind up and not the complete muppet you're portraying yourself as.
Frankie Frazer
says...
9:53am Thu 2 Feb 12
Rogeruk your not as intelligent as u think u r! U have an opinion that is all and other people think differently which u can't seem to accept. U remind me of a very poor politician that keeps coming up with the same drivel over and over, I have read what you have to say over and over and like most people on here all u actually do is speculate, the only difference is your speculation is normally negative which is strange considering it's supposed to be about the team you support! Just because you have a strong vocabulary and a little bit of knowledge about finances it does not make you more intelligent my friend, yours is still only an opinion, u dont work on the inside at the Vic and cannot see the accounts/figures Watford have put in, so U DO NOT KNOW Please change the record and try being positive that a team with the support of WFC is doing very well under the circumstances we find ourselves in. I have my doubts about LB like many people on here but the time to challenge is if he does something stupid, we don't have anyone with a heap of money wanting to buy the club so LB is the only option, try getting behind him as if he ever read the rubbish spouted from people like u & Alex he would keep his hand firmly in his pocket .
Alex Hillcroft
says...
9:55am Thu 2 Feb 12
Frankie Frazer wrote:Oh dear, any more incoherent rants like that and your status will be downgraded from 'imbecile' to 'idiot'
Well done, it shows that google can help anyone! Anyway it's a perfect description for a negative bell end who can't think of anything positive to say about the club he is supposed to support . Your boring me now as you have had nothing constructive to say and your come backs r poor to say the least .
strummerjoe
says...
10:52am Thu 2 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:So you are saying that the accounts have been falsified to make them look better? .....but you were arguing that the costs were overstated - ie making them worse! I really didn't wan't to stoop to insults, but you are, I'm afraid, a complete and utter tool and really not worth spending any more time and effort on. (I normally charge for this service, but just this once I'll chuck in the Tool diagnosis for free)
strummerjoe wrote: rogeruk - one last comment from me (a Chartered Accountant by the way) - normally when people falsify accounts they try to make them look better, not worse (Northern Rock, Enron, Parmelat etc etc) Don't think I've ever come across falsifying them to make them worse apart from a little bit here and there to minimise tax.Don't know where you got that idea from, my point was exactly that they produced accounts to look better They did not want to give the true state of their business. Considering they were audited at great costs by chartered accountants and overseen by the FSA doesn't say much for your profession does it? The real point on here is most of these fans are sheeple they believe anything anyone in authority tells them. Most of them are natural forelock touchers. Given your profession screwed up so much if you check the UK budget deficit and long term debt between the banks and your auditing you well and truly messed up the economy.which will harm generations to come. The real scale of catastrophe started in 2008 after the bail out to banks. Just look at the numbers.
rogeruk
says...
12:19pm Thu 2 Feb 12
Tell me where did I say that? Stop fabricating and deal with facts. I questioned the costs in the 2011 accounts as being too high for a company the size of watford, with a 10 million turnover. I never said they were falsified.
As to 2012 accounts they haven't been done for obvious reasons but I have a feeling they will make interesting reading and I don't mean that in a good way even given the very high income from player sales.
You think inside a small box and it shows.
Like all accountants you can only deal with history being completely clueless in creating wealth or money. You can't deal with the future because you are locked in the past which is why you are boring and a chartered accountant based on your pomposity and insults even a bit chavvy.
As to charging for this service I recommend all your clients get a refund based on what I know of you.
I will not resort to your use of chav language but refer to your limited understanding based on a false premise. If you do come back tell me where I said what you accuse me of?
As to 2012 accounts they haven't been done for obvious reasons but I have a feeling they will make interesting reading and I don't mean that in a good way even given the very high income from player sales.
You think inside a small box and it shows.
Like all accountants you can only deal with history being completely clueless in creating wealth or money. You can't deal with the future because you are locked in the past which is why you are boring and a chartered accountant based on your pomposity and insults even a bit chavvy.
As to charging for this service I recommend all your clients get a refund based on what I know of you.
I will not resort to your use of chav language but refer to your limited understanding based on a false premise. If you do come back tell me where I said what you accuse me of?
tonupchris
says...
12:44pm Thu 2 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:I've just had a look at this site to see if there is any news regarding the club to find that this tit for tat is still going on. Maybe if you put this amount of effort in supporting the club rather than questioning everything that goes on it might be more helpful. Nobody on here has inside information on players, confidentiality, accounts or the price of a pint. If you don't believe what's written down in the accounts then don't believe it but it seems very unlikely we are falsifying these. I think the best course of action would to turn up at 3pm on Saturday and support the team people on here all claim to love but seem to enjoy bad mouthing. SD and the players need our support to help guide the club to safety. And remember things could be worse. We could be in the conference on the verge of going in to administration again!
Tell me where did I say that? Stop fabricating and deal with facts. I questioned the costs in the 2011 accounts as being too high for a company the size of watford, with a 10 million turnover. I never said they were falsified. As to 2012 accounts they haven't been done for obvious reasons but I have a feeling they will make interesting reading and I don't mean that in a good way even given the very high income from player sales. You think inside a small box and it shows. Like all accountants you can only deal with history being completely clueless in creating wealth or money. You can't deal with the future because you are locked in the past which is why you are boring and a chartered accountant based on your pomposity and insults even a bit chavvy. As to charging for this service I recommend all your clients get a refund based on what I know of you. I will not resort to your use of chav language but refer to your limited understanding based on a false premise. If you do come back tell me where I said what you accuse me of?
COYGB
strummerjoe
says...
12:45pm Thu 2 Feb 12
I am a Chartered Accountant but no longer in practice having started a company 9 years ago in the leisure industry which has gone from strength to strength and has grown over the last 3 years in spite of the trading conditions. So - wrong again. Monsieur Roger.
rogeruk
says...
12:49pm Thu 2 Feb 12
garston tony wrote:You back again? Where's the logic In (sic) "I supported the Russos", knowing they threatened GT to wind down the Watford fc? What kind of sick logic is that? You attempt to justify the Russos's wilful destruction of Watford football club . GT and many fans don't see it your way.
Roger(prat)UK, I supported the Russo's because they were FAR FAR better than Lord A et al. You cant point out the stupidity going on under Lord A's tenure then moan about the guys who brought stability to the club. Their 'threat' was in the full knowledge that Lord A would stump up the cash and the club would not enter admin.
As to audits have YOU run a company and been audited many a year? The point is all the money (incoming and outgoing) is accounted for, what part of this simple fact are you having dificulty to grasp? Do your own homework, look at the full accounts yourself and bring to us concrete examples of where money is being syphoned off by Bas or anyone else and not imaginary nothings which is all you have. You pull up others for not answering your questions but you have been asked for proof for your own beliefs, so where is it?
I'm glad that I;m not the only one that can see the obvious inconsistencies in your argument and seeing as I like to give the benefit of the doubt I'd like to think you are still on a wind up and not the complete muppet you're portraying yourself as.
Everything you said in a previous post you got wrong, having pointed out your many errors, you should be down on your knees begging me for forgiveness!
One thing I can say about you is you are consistent in resorting to chavvy personal insults This says more about you than I ever can!
Your religious belief in the authenticity of accounts and audits is naiviety personified. Don't you realise Audits are only for the little people like yourself? When were the EU accounts last audited. Your mind is so small an rigid you are incapable of understanding this.
Portsmouth's accounts have been audited you think they are authentic and show a fair refection of the company? I suppose you believed Robert Maxwell's audited accounts were authentic and a true reflection of the company.
The accounts for 2012 are not due for some time unfortunately bad deeds can be done a long time before accounts are presented my feeling is things are not right I hope I am proved wrong.
As to my business experience against yours I will not dignify that with an answer. Next you will be onto personal anatomy.
You are an example of a pompous little man with bullying tendancies. typing YOU in such a way. I feel sorry for your family and shop assistant.
Your use of terms such as muppet reflects the company you keep as I said previously you can not be taken seriously.
rogeruk
says...
12:56pm Thu 2 Feb 12
tonupchris wrote:I know what you are saying, but the same thing could be said during the Graham Simpson era and look what happened there. I know its UK thing to play the we are all in this together and the patriotic card but bad things happen.
rogeruk wrote:I've just had a look at this site to see if there is any news regarding the club to find that this tit for tat is still going on. Maybe if you put this amount of effort in supporting the club rather than questioning everything that goes on it might be more helpful. Nobody on here has inside information on players, confidentiality, accounts or the price of a pint. If you don't believe what's written down in the accounts then don't believe it but it seems very unlikely we are falsifying these. I think the best course of action would to turn up at 3pm on Saturday and support the team people on here all claim to love but seem to enjoy bad mouthing. SD and the players need our support to help guide the club to safety. And remember things could be worse. We could be in the conference on the verge of going in to administration again!
Tell me where did I say that? Stop fabricating and deal with facts. I questioned the costs in the 2011 accounts as being too high for a company the size of watford, with a 10 million turnover. I never said they were falsified. As to 2012 accounts they haven't been done for obvious reasons but I have a feeling they will make interesting reading and I don't mean that in a good way even given the very high income from player sales. You think inside a small box and it shows. Like all accountants you can only deal with history being completely clueless in creating wealth or money. You can't deal with the future because you are locked in the past which is why you are boring and a chartered accountant based on your pomposity and insults even a bit chavvy. As to charging for this service I recommend all your clients get a refund based on what I know of you. I will not resort to your use of chav language but refer to your limited understanding based on a false premise. If you do come back tell me where I said what you accuse me of?
COYGB
Of course we support the team that's why we care what happens to it, unfortunately in my case I am too thousands of miles from Wfc but I will be there in spirit.
garston tony
says...
3:39pm Thu 2 Feb 12
RogerUK, the Russo's 'threat' was after they had been in charge and made great efforts towards stabilising the club and getting it moving in the right direction and yes I did support what they were doing at the time. Their 'threat' was after Lord A etc who actually caused the mess conspired to take back control, no I was not happy about that particular gambit but I did say at the time that I was sure Lord A would cough up the cash as he 'doesn’t do administration' apparently. That does not take away from the fact that if they hadnt taken control 18 months or so before hand the club would have continued to be in the hands of people who really DID milk the club of millions.
If I'm a 'little' person what makes you bigger? Just your imagination I expect. Heaven help any firm you were in control of if you're this delusional! I'm talking from real experience, you're talking yourself into confusion so I'll just quote your own line back to you and leave it at that. From your post today at 12.19 'Stop fabricating and deal with facts'. Give us facts Roger not your own personal fantasy
If I'm a 'little' person what makes you bigger? Just your imagination I expect. Heaven help any firm you were in control of if you're this delusional! I'm talking from real experience, you're talking yourself into confusion so I'll just quote your own line back to you and leave it at that. From your post today at 12.19 'Stop fabricating and deal with facts'. Give us facts Roger not your own personal fantasy
rogeruk
says...
6:33pm Thu 2 Feb 12
Yet again,
You sound like a traitor after being tried for treason, after being found guilty being and led away to a firing squad; Your last words would be; I am the most patriotic citizen in my country.
I f you were a half decent businessman as you claim to be, you would know one basic rule of business; when in a hole - stop digging!
Your Epitaph would read; here lies a pompous fool!
You sound like a traitor after being tried for treason, after being found guilty being and led away to a firing squad; Your last words would be; I am the most patriotic citizen in my country.
I f you were a half decent businessman as you claim to be, you would know one basic rule of business; when in a hole - stop digging!
Your Epitaph would read; here lies a pompous fool!
garston tony
says...
12:04pm Fri 3 Feb 12
Roger, i'll quote you again 'stop fabricating and deal with facts'.
All you've done is throw around your own personal conspiracies and insults. Give us facts or shut up for goodness sake
All you've done is throw around your own personal conspiracies and insults. Give us facts or shut up for goodness sake
rogeruk
says...
12:06pm Fri 3 Feb 12
rogeruk wrote:Given the news by a very respectable agent representing Sordell, I think I am vindicated for my posts yesterday.
tonupchris wrote:I know what you are saying, but the same thing could be said during the Graham Simpson era and look what happened there. I know its UK thing to play the we are all in this together and the patriotic card but bad things happen.
rogeruk wrote:I've just had a look at this site to see if there is any news regarding the club to find that this tit for tat is still going on. Maybe if you put this amount of effort in supporting the club rather than questioning everything that goes on it might be more helpful. Nobody on here has inside information on players, confidentiality, accounts or the price of a pint. If you don't believe what's written down in the accounts then don't believe it but it seems very unlikely we are falsifying these. I think the best course of action would to turn up at 3pm on Saturday and support the team people on here all claim to love but seem to enjoy bad mouthing. SD and the players need our support to help guide the club to safety. And remember things could be worse. We could be in the conference on the verge of going in to administration again!
Tell me where did I say that? Stop fabricating and deal with facts. I questioned the costs in the 2011 accounts as being too high for a company the size of watford, with a 10 million turnover. I never said they were falsified. As to 2012 accounts they haven't been done for obvious reasons but I have a feeling they will make interesting reading and I don't mean that in a good way even given the very high income from player sales. You think inside a small box and it shows. Like all accountants you can only deal with history being completely clueless in creating wealth or money. You can't deal with the future because you are locked in the past which is why you are boring and a chartered accountant based on your pomposity and insults even a bit chavvy. As to charging for this service I recommend all your clients get a refund based on what I know of you. I will not resort to your use of chav language but refer to your limited understanding based on a false premise. If you do come back tell me where I said what you accuse me of?
COYGB
Of course we support the team that's why we care what happens to it, unfortunately in my case I am too thousands of miles from Wfc but I will be there in spirit.
The problem at Watford for years has been avaricious Directors combined with inept management.
The quality of the last three managers BR, MM and SD (who is learning quickly) together with some fabulous footballers emanating from Watford and now with premier league teams is evidence the footballing side is exciting and entertaining.
However, The two managers prior to SD whilst enjoying their time here are witness to the shenanigans' going on at Board level. I think the Football league should investigate Watford on behalf of the fans.
The enormous amount of money some 10 million net will have to be shown in the 2012 accounts. Income and player sales will bring in over £20 million in financial year 2012operating costs of 15-16 million will mean a substantial net profit. I believe Watford costs are very high and can be pruned much more. I made suggestions as to how this can be done.
I was enormously pleased with the brotherhood between the players during the Millwall game credit for this down to Sean Dyche.
If ever Graham Taylor needed to use his brain and gut feeling it is now!
garston tony
says...
1:32pm Fri 3 Feb 12
The two managers prior to SD had their heads turned by offers from other clubs, this is apparently going to come as a shock to you but there are clubs out there 'bigger' than Watford or in the case of BR a club which has a special place in his heart. Their moves had nothing to do with LB being owner or who was on the board or what they were doing at the time. But by the way what they WERE doing is cutting costs to a level that was far more manageable albeit still meaning the club operated at a loss. A situation all three managers were aware of before they took on the position of manager.
On the one hand you state that the losses posted cant be right and on the other hand admit you know the costs at the club are very high still and on the other hand arent happy about some of the things being done to cut the costs. Confused is the word.
The agents statement does nothing to vindicate you at all, why don’t you wait until the next set of books to see where any profit may have gone instead of not bothering to look at the last set but coming up with all sorts of wild unsubstantiated theories?
On the one hand you state that the losses posted cant be right and on the other hand admit you know the costs at the club are very high still and on the other hand arent happy about some of the things being done to cut the costs. Confused is the word.
The agents statement does nothing to vindicate you at all, why don’t you wait until the next set of books to see where any profit may have gone instead of not bothering to look at the last set but coming up with all sorts of wild unsubstantiated theories?
click2find
downunderorn says...
5:08am Wed 1 Feb 12
Having completed the double at the New Den it's onwards and upwards for the rest of the season.
Best of luck to SD and the Boys