Whichelow 'disappointed' by lack of opportunities (From Watford Observer)

Well he scored on his debut for them so a good start.

Can't fail to see how the lad would not be dissapointed at the lack of oppurtunities he has had this seaon looking at the likes of garner uwelmo and beattie who thankfully went back but speaking out about it probably won't help his cause much.I think a striker will come in on loan as sd must surely be able to see our lack of firepower in the front ranks so this may put mw down the pecking order further.Ihope the lad works hard at wycombe and proves sd wrong then gets his chance and pushes on.Iwant nothing but the best for our youngsters as they are our future and not a cpl of old almost has beens

Let himself down over the summer coming back unfit and overweight so has to shoulder some of the blame. Hopefully this will be lesson learnt as he has got undoubted talent which we could do with especially in the final third. Good start at Wycome so fingers crossed for him. Just stay off the burgers in July and he should be fine!

He seems to be a better finisher than either Deeney of Garner. But if he was to form a partnership with say Deeney (in place f Garner), he will need to up the work rate. Deeney's hard work and willingness to track back actually means his strike partner needs to have lots of energy to keep a presence up front. Not sure Witchelow has that yet, but playing upfront rather than wide alongside a player like Deeney maybe the future.

Andrew1963 wrote:
He seems to be a better finisher than either Deeney of Garner. But if he was to form a partnership with say Deeney (in place f Garner), he will need to up the work rate. Deeney's hard work and willingness to track back actually means his strike partner needs to have lots of energy to keep a presence up front. Not sure Witchelow has that yet, but playing upfront rather than wide alongside a player like Deeney maybe the future.

Agreed, he and Deeney could be a decent partnership. Has pace to get in behind and seems composed in front of goal, but also impressed last season playing between midfield and the forwards buzzing about and running at people. Very exciting player potentially if he knuckles down now. Good luck Matty!

he better be in the side next season regardless of how well we sign over following the departures of MS, and the inevitable of AM. There is no point in us bringing through players like this for years, and having such a good academy, then not throwing them in when they are ready!
He proved himself last season, and rivalled buckley most of the time but lacked consistency, dyche's lack of risk-taking with putting our youngsters in will lose him his job after a while, not only are these lot the future of watford, they are also the present.

rookerylad wrote:
he better be in the side next season regardless of how well we sign over following the departures of MS, and the inevitable of AM. There is no point in us bringing through players like this for years, and having such a good academy, then not throwing them in when they are ready! He proved himself last season, and rivalled buckley most of the time but lacked consistency, dyche's lack of risk-taking with putting our youngsters in will lose him his job after a while, not only are these lot the future of watford, they are also the present.

The facts speak for themselves - could not get a regular start for Exeter. Players that can make a difference at Championship level must surely be able to excel at Div 1 !?

I like the lad - his goal against Preston last season was superb. Let's hope the Wycombe spell gives him ( and SD) the confidence to come back with a bang ! Maybe next term though !

If we're talking about facts, take a look at whichelow's stats at soccerbase. 4 starts and 3 goals in his Watford career, Exeter has got nothing to do with the matter!

Least he seems prepared to fight for his place..something you want to hear from youngsters rather than mope around happy to pick up wages for nothing.

rookerylad wrote:
If we're talking about facts, take a look at whichelow's stats at soccerbase. 4 starts and 3 goals in his Watford career, Exeter has got nothing to do with the matter!

Three goals in four starts indicates promise. Ten goals in 20 starts indicates delivery.

Sadly, players can stagnate or even go backwards ( ref: one Antony MacNamee) - particularly if they do not look after themselves.

Let's hope the loan spell will confirm the early promise. You can bet no-one will be more pleased than SD !

be surprised if he ever becomes a regular at the vic

rookery lad
Sorry but I agree totally with Oracledave, Exeter has everything to do with it.
How could he do poorly at Exeter and then walk straight back into the first team squad at Watford, doesnt make any sense. What sort of message would that send to the other kids?
I like him and hope he does really well but he has a second opportunity to show he is good enough and I hope he gets stuck in and takes it.

cliff46 wrote:
rookery lad
Sorry but I agree totally with Oracledave, Exeter has everything to do with it.
How could he do poorly at Exeter and then walk straight back into the first team squad at Watford, doesnt make any sense. What sort of message would that send to the other kids?
I like him and hope he does really well but he has a second opportunity to show he is good enough and I hope he gets stuck in and takes it.

Was his failure at Exeter all his fault?
We don't know
What worries me is our acadamy really going to be our life line going forward, because other than AY and possibly AM we don't seem to have many exciting prospects ( Murray also lest I forget)
I would like to see him included once our safety has been assured, along with a footballing style.

lutondown wrote:

cliff46 wrote:
rookery lad
Sorry but I agree totally with Oracledave, Exeter has everything to do with it.
How could he do poorly at Exeter and then walk straight back into the first team squad at Watford, doesnt make any sense. What sort of message would that send to the other kids?
I like him and hope he does really well but he has a second opportunity to show he is good enough and I hope he gets stuck in and takes it.

Was his failure at Exeter all his fault?
We don't know
What worries me is our acadamy really going to be our life line going forward, because other than AY and possibly AM we don't seem to have many exciting prospects ( Murray also lest I forget)
I would like to see him included once our safety has been assured, along with a footballing style.

It's hardly surprising that 'we don't seem to to have many exciting prospects' from our Academy when they are all pushed out by some of the mediocre and poor journeymen signed in the past 12 months. Ten new signings since the end of last season not to mention loanees has meant that our talented crop of youngsters have not been given a chance. They are either shipped out on loan or left languishing in the reserves. Our Harefield Academy is acclaimed but having brought such talent as Bryan, Bennett, Mingola, Massey, Thompson, Whichelow, Issac and Smith into the squad we don't play them or even put them on the bench. Most of these youngsters are now into their 20's and can't be expected to hang around whilst we give preference to the likes of Iwelumo, Mirfin, Yeates, Dickinson and Forsyth. When we get to safety (52 points?) I hope that Dyche starts putting some faith in our future and giving our youngsters a run.

MJ1 wrote:

lutondown wrote:

cliff46 wrote:
rookery lad
Sorry but I agree totally with Oracledave, Exeter has everything to do with it.
How could he do poorly at Exeter and then walk straight back into the first team squad at Watford, doesnt make any sense. What sort of message would that send to the other kids?
I like him and hope he does really well but he has a second opportunity to show he is good enough and I hope he gets stuck in and takes it.

Was his failure at Exeter all his fault?
We don't know
What worries me is our acadamy really going to be our life line going forward, because other than AY and possibly AM we don't seem to have many exciting prospects ( Murray also lest I forget)
I would like to see him included once our safety has been assured, along with a footballing style.

It's hardly surprising that 'we don't seem to to have many exciting prospects' from our Academy when they are all pushed out by some of the mediocre and poor journeymen signed in the past 12 months. Ten new signings since the end of last season not to mention loanees has meant that our talented crop of youngsters have not been given a chance. They are either shipped out on loan or left languishing in the reserves. Our Harefield Academy is acclaimed but having brought such talent as Bryan, Bennett, Mingola, Massey, Thompson, Whichelow, Issac and Smith into the squad we don't play them or even put them on the bench. Most of these youngsters are now into their 20's and can't be expected to hang around whilst we give preference to the likes of Iwelumo, Mirfin, Yeates, Dickinson and Forsyth. When we get to safety (52 points?) I hope that Dyche starts putting some faith in our future and giving our youngsters a run.

I wouldn't exactly say that Mirfin has been given preference to any youngsters. Same with Iwelumo (apart from Massey, we don't have any other promising young kids). Also, Murray has now replaced Forsyth, so that just leaves Dickinson (who would replace him from our kids) and Yeates (who has now been replaced by Alex K...)

Lutondown
I have friends who live in that area and they were very dissapointed with his performances particularly after I had told them how well he had done for us last season.
He is still young and you might be right maybe that area was a bit of a culture shock for the lad.
I would like to see him later in the season in the way you describe.
I share your concern about the academy particularly when relatively inexpensive gems like Hogg are available from other clubs.
We always managed to find decent league players from our youth teams long before we incurred the additional academy costs.
Once the new pitch has been installed I am hoping we might develop an ongoing footballing style similar to that adopted by Malky last season. Whatever my subsequent views of the man I have to say his football was the best I had seen at the Vic for many many years.

Lutondown
I have friends who live in that area and they were very dissapointed with his performances particularly after I had told them how well he had done for us last season.
He is still young and you might be right maybe that area was a bit of a culture shock for the lad.
I would like to see him later in the season in the way you describe.
I share your concern about the academy particularly when relatively inexpensive gems like Hogg are available from other clubs.
We always managed to find decent league players from our youth teams long before we incurred the additional academy costs.
Once the new pitch has been installed I am hoping we might develop an ongoing footballing style similar to that adopted by Malky last season. Whatever my subsequent views of the man I have to say his football was the best I had seen at the Vic for many many years.

MJ1 wrote:

lutondown wrote:

cliff46 wrote: rookery lad Sorry but I agree totally with Oracledave, Exeter has everything to do with it. How could he do poorly at Exeter and then walk straight back into the first team squad at Watford, doesnt make any sense. What sort of message would that send to the other kids? I like him and hope he does really well but he has a second opportunity to show he is good enough and I hope he gets stuck in and takes it.

Was his failure at Exeter all his fault? We don't know What worries me is our acadamy really going to be our life line going forward, because other than AY and possibly AM we don't seem to have many exciting prospects ( Murray also lest I forget) I would like to see him included once our safety has been assured, along with a footballing style.

It's hardly surprising that 'we don't seem to to have many exciting prospects' from our Academy when they are all pushed out by some of the mediocre and poor journeymen signed in the past 12 months. Ten new signings since the end of last season not to mention loanees has meant that our talented crop of youngsters have not been given a chance. They are either shipped out on loan or left languishing in the reserves. Our Harefield Academy is acclaimed but having brought such talent as Bryan, Bennett, Mingola, Massey, Thompson, Whichelow, Issac and Smith into the squad we don't play them or even put them on the bench. Most of these youngsters are now into their 20's and can't be expected to hang around whilst we give preference to the likes of Iwelumo, Mirfin, Yeates, Dickinson and Forsyth. When we get to safety (52 points?) I hope that Dyche starts putting some faith in our future and giving our youngsters a run.

its not about faith its about being good enough, they have no divine right to walk into the team. no exceptional talent there at the moment i`m afraid and most will be released.been a long time since we produced a superstar

MJ1 wrote:

lutondown wrote:

cliff46 wrote:
rookery lad
Sorry but I agree totally with Oracledave, Exeter has everything to do with it.
How could he do poorly at Exeter and then walk straight back into the first team squad at Watford, doesnt make any sense. What sort of message would that send to the other kids?
I like him and hope he does really well but he has a second opportunity to show he is good enough and I hope he gets stuck in and takes it.

Was his failure at Exeter all his fault?
We don't know
What worries me is our acadamy really going to be our life line going forward, because other than AY and possibly AM we don't seem to have many exciting prospects ( Murray also lest I forget)
I would like to see him included once our safety has been assured, along with a footballing style.

It's hardly surprising that 'we don't seem to to have many exciting prospects' from our Academy when they are all pushed out by some of the mediocre and poor journeymen signed in the past 12 months. Ten new signings since the end of last season not to mention loanees has meant that our talented crop of youngsters have not been given a chance. They are either shipped out on loan or left languishing in the reserves. Our Harefield Academy is acclaimed but having brought such talent as Bryan, Bennett, Mingola, Massey, Thompson, Whichelow, Issac and Smith into the squad we don't play them or even put them on the bench. Most of these youngsters are now into their 20's and can't be expected to hang around whilst we give preference to the likes of Iwelumo, Mirfin, Yeates, Dickinson and Forsyth. When we get to safety (52 points?) I hope that Dyche starts putting some faith in our future and giving our youngsters a run.

I think that we sometimes need to take off our yellow tinted spectacles when talking about our academy products/players. I mean I like to think they (Bennett, Mingoia, Bryan, Whichelow, isaac, Assombolonga, Massey, Thompson etc) are all amazing prospects and will make the big time but let's face it, they won't all succeed. Blimey if they did we'd be renowned for having the best academy in the world! I have a feeling that Bryan and Bennett will leave soon and it will be no big loss. Thompson I have high hopes for and Mingoia and Whichelow the next year is crucial. If they go out on loan to a lower division side then they need to be one of the best players on the park. The fact is that most if those loanees haven't performed in the lower leagues thus far so why are people calling for them to be introduced into our team where the standard of football is higher?! The fact is that so long as some of them make it, then that's fine but we can't expect all of the players that we produce to develop into premiership players. Let's not forget we have Hodson and Murray in our team, along with kacaetcetc, we can't have a whole team of youngsters! 3 is enough because you need balance and experience, and kids are inconsistent. Unfortunately the reduction of subs from 7 to 5 has not helped the situationand before anyone says get a bench full of kids well you need experience on the bench! I agree Once we are safe I would like to see more academy products playing unless of course we are safe do early that the play offs are a possibility! (we can but hope!), anyhow SD having had the career path that he has had, I'm sure nothing would please him
More but to blood these young players, after all surely he knows them better than anyone else having been youth coach and assistant manager; let's trust SD to do the right thing.

This is a good discussion because the arguments on both sides have merit !

Whilst agreeing entirely that no-body can claim a place by right and also probably that apart from Murray there are no real 1st team candidates at present, I think there are grounds for some optimism.

Thompson showed considerable promise last term and would probably have featured more if Hodson had not shown dramatic improvement.

And despite his problems Matty did score a couple of excellent goals last season. Massey also looks promising.

Some will also remember a couple of good performances from Bennett a couple of year back ( alongside J.Demerit).

I think the most ridiculous notion suggested in some posts, is that somehow SD is biased against youngsters. You can bet he would put them in ( as Murray) if he and the other coaching staff were convinced they could do a job.

Do agree, that if safety is guaranteed, hopefully in about eight or nine games time, then we can be more experimental with selections.

Wow some great debate comments on here for a change, obviously a matter to all our hearts for the future of the club. The future for any of our youngsters is in their hands. Matty needs to get his head down and prove he should be in the first team and I have to say he does not need to do much more than what he is already doing with our current team to get himself a place, I would much rather see him on the bench or field than Big Chris who in my opinion is shot and needs putting out to pasture (how longs his contract 2 years wasn't it?). I am a strong supporter of SD but do admit he has made some gaffs in his signings and team selections but then this is his first season in charge so you really can't expect him not to make any mistakes. Chris could have been a good signing and was welcomed with open arms by us but it hasn't worked, same can be said with Beattie but as a whole SD has signed some great loans Weimann, Kightly, Nosworthy and now Alex so can't finger point on that side of things as to why some of the youngsters haven't been given a chance instead. I also think any manager worth his salt should still be focussed on playoff chance rather than survival at this stage no matter how remote and with that in mind I guess SD will put out who he thinks is his strongest 1st team, maybe when this is addressed beyond doubt can he look at others.

I watched Matt train at Exeter and he was a class apart.
Unfortunately, in the two matches I saw him play he showed zilch. I think this is partly because they played him too deep (on the right) and virtually always attacked down the left.
I had the balls to tell Steve Perryman that they had not used the guy correctly and I saw little point in taking a guy on loan and then not utilising his obvious talents

exeterhornet wrote:
I watched Matt train at Exeter and he was a class apart.
Unfortunately, in the two matches I saw him play he showed zilch. I think this is partly because they played him too deep (on the right) and virtually always attacked down the left.
I had the balls to tell Steve Perryman that they had not used the guy correctly and I saw little point in taking a guy on loan and then not utilising his obvious talents

Could it explain it
Too deep and Perryman!
Now it all makes sense

It's been a long time since there has been a discussion on here without somebody abusing somebody else and it's nice to see.
I've been hoping all season to see the youngsters but only if they're ready. It was always going to be tough at the start of the season with many new signings and the loss of 3 of our better players so maybe putting them in the start would have been a mistake. I'm a big fan of Thompson but to fair to Hodson he's come in and done very well. He has improved massively and seems to be a lot fitter than last season. Murray has done well since coming in. Playing him against Sours may have been a masterstroke as being the underdogs there was no pressure on him. Whichelow has undoubted talent and seems to have learnt from his mistakes last summer although time will tell. Hopefully a few games and goals for Wycombe means he'll come back full of confidence and can force his way in to the side. I can't comment on the other players like Hoban, Assambalonga (is that correct?) but the fact they go on loan to non league and not league 1 or 2 clubs might suggest they're not quite there yet. Bryan, I suspect, may leave in the summer and I'm not sure about Mingoia. Both players are very small and lightweight and may struggle at this level but I could be wrong and hope I am. Whatever happens we can't play them all and I think we needed all of those signings in the summer. They've not all worked but they never do. Ask Sir Alex about Djemba Djemba! I suspect Big Chris and Mirfin will be allowed to leave in the summer. Yeates and Dickinson have done ok. Not world beaters but that's why there here and not at West Ham. Nosworthy has been excellent as was Kightly and Hogg would be close to player of the season if it wasn't for Mariappa. The jury is out on Garner but a run in the team will hopefully help him and the lad from Fulham certainly shows promise. All in all it doesn't look too bad unless you listen to certain protaganists on here and the future is hopefully yellow and definitely not Orange.
COYGB

One thing to add to this love in
If a player is on the books and being paid by the club surely the player should keep himself in some sort of shape in the close season
As much as anyone needs breaks the best players ( not always the most talented) drive themselves to be the best they can be
And sometimes Chris the so called protagonists are not always the usual suspects

There is a lot of talk of Whichelow coming back unfit and not looking after himself during the summer, this is just not true the problem with Matt was, he over trained during the summer trying to come back fitter than ever and it had a negative effect causing him to get injured in the early stages of pre season from which he never recovered. I think he has learnt from this there is a reason footballers have a rest period.

I also think Watford fans expect too much too early from our young players expecting them to be the finished articile too soon i remember Hodson having a dip in form last season after christmas mainly due to having swine flu and not recovering properly this season he has improved, mainly down to the fact hes a year older and wiser and is only developing the way in which the coaches knew he would. We have a lot of big talent to come through yet in Thompson, Murray, Issacs Whichelow Hoban etc they cant all come through at once just when there ready all players progress at different stages of their careers.

Not sure that performing badly while out on loan at Exeter is any indicator at all re Witchelow's future progress. Think of all the dismal young loanees we've had down the years who have gone on to perform at a high level - Liam Bridcutt and Danny Rose spring to mind

Alex Hillcroft wrote:
Not sure that performing badly while out on loan at Exeter is any indicator at all re Witchelow's future progress. Think of all the dismal young loanees we've had down the years who have gone on to perform at a high level - Liam Bridcutt and Danny Rose spring to mind

and dont forget Agbonlahor!

Dont like the Cut of the Jib on this thread! Zipped it!

Sorry to read that Michael Bryan is reduced to being a trialist at Leyton O.
He looked to have a good future a year or two ago.
I guess he will be on his way at the end of the season if he doesn't progress soon because he is 22 this month. I hope things improve quickly for him.
I am not sure what goes wrong with obviously talented lads like Michael and Anthony Mcnamee.