Bassini and Watford charged with misconduct (From Watford Observer)

Only 2 Ross Jenkins wrote:
We were subject to a transfer embargo this summer I believe which implies that the football league and Pozzos knew about this during the takeover. I assume therefore that it is only the period from Sept 2011 to July 2012 that the embargo should have been active. The football league gave us approval for all the transfers in the summer, which means that any gain we may have received was surely for last season only. I suspect that the new regime knew about this issue all along and expected this to come to light, and have most likely been 100% co-operative with the FL to get it sorted. What was GT (and others like Timperley) doing whilst all this was going on? I can only assume he/they were totally oblivious to any conversations and promises made between Bassini and the FL. Can the WO give GT a call to find out more?

Bringe wrote:
Points can't be deducted retrospectively but it would be very harsh indeed to punish the current regime in such a manner and I would expect a fine. As far as I can see we haven't sign anyone while under any sort of embargo however it wouldn't excuse the club/Bassini for not putting the facts on the table if that is the case.... "Significant" prejudice to other clubs is unlikely considering our mid table finish as there were no big signings but just a couple of bog standard young player loans and despite Tom Cleverly emergence since, he was nowhere near Uniteds first team when we borrowed him.

UndercoverElephant wrote:
I hope that the Red Lion is even emptier than usual this week. Bas on the front and the back page of the Observer, all for the wrong reasons.

Holly68 wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:
I hope that the Red Lion is even emptier than usual this week. Bas on the front and the back page of the Observer, all for the wrong reasons.

The Red Lion (according to the accounts) hasn't been transferred yet.

However Bassini is claiming it is his and charging the management of the pub a rent or lease fee

I hope the club keep the pub now and lease it to to the management of the pub

The pub has brought alot of fans together recently, and the management of the pub have done no wrong, so of we boycott we end up punishing people who've done no wrong, and lose the camaraderie built up recently

If I were the pub management, I would worry if the transfer does go through based on all this news that alleges things might not have been done in accordance with FL rules etc

The Rover wrote:

Holly68 wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:
I hope that the Red Lion is even emptier than usual this week. Bas on the front and the back page of the Observer, all for the wrong reasons.

The Red Lion (according to the accounts) hasn't been transferred yet.

However Bassini is claiming it is his and charging the management of the pub a rent or lease fee

I hope the club keep the pub now and lease it to to the management of the pub

The pub has brought alot of fans together recently, and the management of the pub have done no wrong, so of we boycott we end up punishing people who've done no wrong, and lose the camaraderie built up recently

If I were the pub management, I would worry if the transfer does go through based on all this news that alleges things might not have been done in accordance with FL rules etc

The pubs management must be at an absolute loss as to who their landlord is and who they pay their rent to!

sceptic wrote:
All this makes Jack Petchey seem like a philanthropist!!

andyhooked wrote:
Points have been deducted before for action taken under previous management. Is this the end of what was looking to be a promising season? Bassini was the sole owner but WFC had a board of directors. If the board were kept in the complete dark then I just hope that Bassini can bee found in breach of Companies Act provisions and can be found to have committed a criminal breach of the Act. Then on the other hand the board members may be considered not to have challenged alleged breaches of FL Regs. So frustrating that we do not know where the truth lies at present and now have possibly months of uncertainty ahead despite all the good things happening on the pitch.

Roy Stockdill wrote:
All these latest revelations lead me to suggest that they should invite Harry Redknapp's dog to take over the club.

After all, from what we learnt during Harry's tax evasion trial the pooch appears to be more of a financial wizard than most of the people running football clubs!

Andrew1963 wrote:
What i don't understand is why the football authorities and the previous owners sanctioned the sale to Bassini - A leopard does not change it's spots - as soon as his name was mentioned keyboard warriors had revealed his less than normal financial/business past.

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

Holly68 wrote:

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

Agreed we shouldn't boycott as management of pub have done no wrong.

However, is it factual that the pub has been transferred to Baz after the accounting period ?

Holly68 wrote:

Only 2 Ross Jenkins wrote: We were subject to a transfer embargo this summer I believe which implies that the football league and Pozzos knew about this during the takeover. I assume therefore that it is only the period from Sept 2011 to July 2012 that the embargo should have been active. The football league gave us approval for all the transfers in the summer, which means that any gain we may have received was surely for last season only. I suspect that the new regime knew about this issue all along and expected this to come to light, and have most likely been 100% co-operative with the FL to get it sorted. What was GT (and others like Timperley) doing whilst all this was going on? I can only assume he/they were totally oblivious to any conversations and promises made between Bassini and the FL. Can the WO give GT a call to find out more?

I think you will find, based on previous reports in Wobby, that he never turned up for management meetings and wouldn't talk business with GT & Co ... What would of happened if no Pozzo's (Pompey all over ?) Timperley and Frandsen got the takeover on track after he threw toys out the pram (remember his phones to Wobby) And amid all this, what about the money still owed to Ashcroft & Co LOTS AND LOTS of QUESTIONS Will take weeks and months to resolve I guess I just hope we are not as fans punished !!!!! Anyway this is outside our (fans) influence circle, the new management have the resources to defend us properly I am sure

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

In GT We Trust wrote:

Holly68 wrote:

Only 2 Ross Jenkins wrote: We were subject to a transfer embargo this summer I believe which implies that the football league and Pozzos knew about this during the takeover. I assume therefore that it is only the period from Sept 2011 to July 2012 that the embargo should have been active. The football league gave us approval for all the transfers in the summer, which means that any gain we may have received was surely for last season only. I suspect that the new regime knew about this issue all along and expected this to come to light, and have most likely been 100% co-operative with the FL to get it sorted. What was GT (and others like Timperley) doing whilst all this was going on? I can only assume he/they were totally oblivious to any conversations and promises made between Bassini and the FL. Can the WO give GT a call to find out more?

I think you will find, based on previous reports in Wobby, that he never turned up for management meetings and wouldn't talk business with GT & Co ... What would of happened if no Pozzo's (Pompey all over ?) Timperley and Frandsen got the takeover on track after he threw toys out the pram (remember his phones to Wobby) And amid all this, what about the money still owed to Ashcroft & Co LOTS AND LOTS of QUESTIONS Will take weeks and months to resolve I guess I just hope we are not as fans punished !!!!! Anyway this is outside our (fans) influence circle, the new management have the resources to defend us properly I am sure

I think it's an appropriate moment to give thanks again to messrs. Timperley and Fransen. Imagine where we'd be now if they hadn't managed to push LB out of the door...

Reginald Dwight wrote:

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

Good point palmeris60. If the current management there have an agreement with Bassini then i suggest they stop paying him a penny and work closely with the Club to ensure the ownership is back in its control and then everyone is happy. Reading back on the pub development you see this story and one particular quote below about the collaboration of people involved in it. Is there any relation as to why some of the club staff have been removed since the new owners took Bassini out?? Were they tarred with Bassini's dirty brush? Probably not but rather than punish the existing management who have undoubtedly picked up more of Bassini's debts, maybe fans should boycott the pub UNTIL Bassini has no control. It won't cost the management a thing if they stop paying Bassini so they won't lose out - the Club will own the pub and fans can continue to enjoy their matchday experience knowing that the man who is reported to have played roulette with the future of our club isn't continuing to benefit from our money anymore......

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“He has backed it financially himself and myself, along with the likes of Glyn Evans (operations director), Raj Athwal (commercial director) and Angelo Barrea (Bassini’s business associate), really got to grips with it and it is nice to see it coming together.

miked2006 wrote:
Okay so let me get this straight. LB was given permission to take over our club by the football league. In one season he (allegedly) spent our income on drugs, prostitutes, bentleys and casinos. He transfered around 1.5-2.5 million in loans to himself, but made sure the debt was in the clubs name and therefore if he sold the club, he would not have to pay a penny of the loan back (or even any interest of repayment). He also took half a million from the club to refurnish a pub, spent a fifth of that whilst pocketing the rest (and did not declare any of it); when the takeover happened he then got to keep this pub. When people tried to stop him (Safegate) he just called the police and had the long serving employees removed from the premises. He then sold the club for 10-15 million pounds more than he bought it for which left us in fairly significant debt, with a potential points penalty and almost certain fine to come. This man had no real money himself in the first place, would not disclose where or how he was going to pay for the club and had (two?) failed businesses beforehand, after one of which he changed his name. I'm starting to feel like even Harry's dog could convince the FL that he would make a fit and responsible owner.

If the government were asked and gave specific permission for a known terrorist to be granted asylum here, and he then orchestrated an attack, would it be their fault or the local council that were forced to house him?

jsjf1979 wrote:
From the very limited information we have at present it appears that the loan advances from LNOC were in order for us to avoid going into administration. As these ‘loans’ were not FL approved, then I believe they could treat us as having gone into administration anyway, which is a 10 point deduction. This is purely guesswork, and hopefully we can fight it. I am sure the Pozzo’s will have been made aware of this prior to the takeover and formed their own view. We were under a technical transfer embargo anyway in the summer so I guess this is all related. The sad thing is that things were really starting to look up on the pitch, and then this comes along and brings us back down to earth. The thought of Bassini getting away with this (if guilty of the allegations of course) and causing us to be punished by the FL makes me sick.

Only 2 Ross Jenkins wrote:
We were subject to a transfer embargo this summer I believe which implies that the football league and Pozzos knew about this during the takeover. I assume therefore that it is only the period from Sept 2011 to July 2012 that the embargo should have been active. The football league gave us approval for all the transfers in the summer, which means that any gain we may have received was surely for last season only. I suspect that the new regime knew about this issue all along and expected this to come to light, and have most likely been 100% co-operative with the FL to get it sorted. What was GT (and others like Timperley) doing whilst all this was going on? I can only assume he/they were totally oblivious to any conversations and promises made between Bassini and the FL. Can the WO give GT a call to find out more?

Bringe wrote:
Points can't be deducted retrospectively but it would be very harsh indeed to punish the current regime in such a manner and I would expect a fine. As far as I can see we haven't sign anyone while under any sort of embargo however it wouldn't excuse the club/Bassini for not putting the facts on the table if that is the case.... "Significant" prejudice to other clubs is unlikely considering our mid table finish as there were no big signings but just a couple of bog standard young player loans and despite Tom Cleverly emergence since, he was nowhere near Uniteds first team when we borrowed him.

grahamtaylorismydad wrote:
Personaly i'm not too concerned, we knew what a complete idiot Baz was for the club, and should expect a few skeletons in the cupboard, if we are to recieve a points deduction let it be now during our seaon of transition both on and off the pitch. For me its all about next season, lets sort this mess out now and get the club on a firm footing for the future.

JohnnyHornet wrote:
As a secondary thought wasn't there a rumour at the beginning of the season about a transfer embargo being in place and the FL gave us the all clear ? , if the dates are correct then they knew about the alleged shenanigans prior to clearing us to sign the current horns. If things are still not right why did they allow us to take the new lads.

palmeris60 wrote:
ok lets try and make this clear for all parties:-
The club as i understand it was sold back to the Pozzo family on Friday 29th June 2012 with the accounts being filed on the following day. At this stage the club spoke to all parties and said that with immediate effect LB was the new owner and all relevant paperwork had been completed. Laurence again as i understand it took full control from the Wednesday. LB has stated to all parties on many occasions that he wants shot of the pub and with this in mind a deal was done to lease the pub to Josh & Dave.Talks on purchasing the pub are i understand already in the pipeline. By boycotting the pub fans would only be jeopardising the ability of Josh & Dave to do a deal with LB. How many people in life have a landlord that they would rather not have or deal with.Very soon if things go to plan the pub will no longer be in LB's hands.Isn't that what al parties want? Josh, Dave & Neil's intentions from day one were and are to make it a place for Watford fans.My advise to all is rather tahn talk about stupid boycotts would be to encourage as many people as possible to use it! Enough said! Come on u horns.....

Roy Stockdill wrote:
All these latest revelations lead me to suggest that they should invite Harry Redknapp's dog to take over the club.

After all, from what we learnt during Harry's tax evasion trial the pooch appears to be more of a financial wizard than most of the people running football clubs!

Holly68 wrote:
Good for the fans


I do hope the management take advice from all parties before continuing paying LB lease money to get all the facts

holtonian wrote:
The football league seem to flex there authority at the drop of a hat.They are opening up a huge can of worms if theyu honestly looked into every league club. Surely common sense should prevail when they look into our last owners credentials. He robbed Watford FC left right and centre.

gloryhornet4 wrote:
I think the FL should come down just as hard as they did with Spurs and 31 transfers that allegedly were not absolutely compliant - 12 POINTS deducted. Out come the big lawyers and just a £1.5m fine.

Same number of points that they took off of West Ham & QPR.

lutondown wrote:
He takes what he wants he take what he wants, that horrible B*******d, he takes what he wants

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

Holly68 wrote:
Following a legal search today, the Pub's title deeds are still owned by Watford FC and not LB.

So for now the Pub is owned by Watford (long may that continue)

I hope the pub management haven't been paying rent to wrong owners !?!?

I vote for the club keeping it :-)

Reginald Dwight wrote:

Holly68 wrote:
Following a legal search today, the Pub's title deeds are still owned by Watford FC and not LB.

So for now the Pub is owned by Watford (long may that continue)

I hope the pub management haven't been paying rent to wrong owners !?!?

I vote for the club keeping it :-)

Good stuff Holly.

Support the pub once, and ONLY once, we know it is officially back in the Clubs safe hands and not another penny can go to Bazini / Barrea and IF the Russo's were his mysterious funders last year then them too!

jasonwatford wrote:
Holly have to disagree with you on the Russo point mate...Jumped up little men who had gains for themselves and not always in best interest of WFC. I know you know people inside of Watford as do i and having seen them in action behind closed doors and not what i would call WFC people.
I wonder what GT is thinking about all this ?

Roy Stockdill wrote:
>Roy,it's a bit rich for someone so desperate to be seen as middlebrow when he used to work for the News of the World.<

A somewhat fatuous comment since I've always made it clear that I retired in 1997, years before the phone-hacking began. In my career I never did anything I was ashamed of because it was a totally different newspaper when I was there. I left largely because I lost interest when it became a red-top tabloid and a vehicle principally for Z-list celebs and half-witted models and pop tartlets to sell their memoirs to.

However, maybe we should bring back Mr Justive Leveson to turn his attentions to the sorry mess that football has got into. I guarantee he will probably find more scandals than have ever afflicted the press!

Holly68 wrote:

jasonwatford wrote:
Holly have to disagree with you on the Russo point mate...Jumped up little men who had gains for themselves and not always in best interest of WFC. I know you know people inside of Watford as do i and having seen them in action behind closed doors and not what i would call WFC people.
I wonder what GT is thinking about all this ?

As I said, not everyone's cup of tea, yes I heard stories about their management style, but they factually lost money so did not gain overall, like most owners. They were always courteous to the fans.

As for knowing people, what is it they say, everyone's 6 degrees from the pope, nobody knows everyone or everything, I only get info like the rest of the fans, rumours, forums, my aunts best friends cousins next door neighbour, so all my posts are compilation of stuff on the "outside" LOL

Roy Stockdill wrote:
Sorry, Lutondown, I do respect the views of Watford fans, much as I think they are being rather naive. I am simply trying to emphasise what I have said in this and other threads numerous times before, namely that football in Britain generally is in one hell of a mess and that the entire house of cards will collapse sooner or later. Don't think that Watford is alone by any means!!! I would warrant there are umpteen other clubs, big and small, who are also in trouble. Despite their enormous worldwide images, hasn't anyone noticed how much even the Manchester Utds and Chelseas of this world are operating under a mountain of debt? The problem stems far, far beyond Watford and if you only look at it from a parochial point of view you won't get very far. Dodgy and corrupt owners, greedy agents, managers on the take and venal players, grossly overpaid and grossly under-performing, are all to blame, not to mention the machinations of banks and finance companies and backroom lawyers all wanting their share. And I'm sorry to say this but in many cases the fans have let it happen because they have turned a blind eye to the corruption in the game that stinks to high heaven, purely in order to get their little bit of entertainment on a Saturday afternoon.

Holly68 wrote:

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

As you are the pub secretary, could you shed light on whether LB is the owner, have you seen the legal document ?

As if LB is not the legal owner yet, any sub-agreement between LB and pub management might be null and void (ie. you can't lease something you don't own) . Can you help she'd light on this with facts ?

If latter, maybe the management don't have to make any lease payments to LB and can claim back any monies paid to him (if he not owner) ......

I am sure the pub management would like shot of LB like the rest of us ....


Or maybe he could be the legend one Saturday, I reckon that would get a full pub for certain !!!!

Andrew1963 wrote:

Roy Stockdill wrote:
>Roy,it's a bit rich for someone so desperate to be seen as middlebrow when he used to work for the News of the World.<

A somewhat fatuous comment since I've always made it clear that I retired in 1997, years before the phone-hacking began. In my career I never did anything I was ashamed of because it was a totally different newspaper when I was there. I left largely because I lost interest when it became a red-top tabloid and a vehicle principally for Z-list celebs and half-witted models and pop tartlets to sell their memoirs to.

However, maybe we should bring back Mr Justive Leveson to turn his attentions to the sorry mess that football has got into. I guarantee he will probably find more scandals than have ever afflicted the press!

Blimey never realised that the News of the World only became a red top tabloid interested in celebrities, titilation and grubbing around for scandal after 1997. I doubt there were many owners of football clubs in the 1930s supping tea with Mussolini and Hitler like Lord Rothermere. At least Football has a proper go at self regulation unlike UK newspapers who think Free Press means 'free to do what we like'

Holly68 wrote:
Following a legal search today, the Pub's title deeds are still owned by Watford FC and not LB.

So for now the Pub is owned by Watford (long may that continue)

I hope the pub management haven't been paying rent to wrong owners !?!?

I vote for the club keeping it :-)

Taxidermist wrote:
Holly68 wrote:
Following a legal search today, the Pub's title deeds are still owned by Watford FC and not LB.

I am presuming that the search revealed the pub belongs to Watford Association Football Club Ltd, not WFC Ltd, which is Bassini's own holding company.

KeithMercer wrote:
Calm down some of you guys !!
breathing doom and gloom, getting yourselves worked up about points deductions, relegation and even worse scenarios .
Common sense will prevail, might take a bit of time but rest assured this club we love is only going in one direction !!
Now I know which direction that is, so get down the Red Lion , buy a few cold ones and find your voices and your passion and watch this club go !
And stop worrying about all this regulatory c"*p ! leave that to the lawyers ! thats what they get paid for.

Holly68 wrote:

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

Palmeris60, can you re-examine your points above (not blaming you as you acting in good faith)

The Pubs title deeds are (as at 2pm this afternoon still in name of club and not LB)

Secondly, are the pub management paying the wrong person rent ?

Needs looking in to ......

I am really even more looking forward to drinking in the still Watford owned pub ....


You can do a title deeds search yourself online, it costs £3 and any member of the public can have access, this proves fact from fiction !

gloryhornet4 wrote:

Holly68 wrote:

palmeris60 wrote:
Not sure who undercover elephant is but wonder if he would like someone to suggest to others to boycott his business if he had one! The pub was transferred to LB after the accounting issue date.Josh Price & Dave pay the money to LB monthly under the terms of the lease with an option to buy next year. Since the pub opened it's brought countless numbers of Watford & Saracens fans together. We've had great legends already visit and feedback from fans has been tremendous.I would suggest to undercover elephant that he pops into the pub and has a word with either Neil or Josh.

Palmeris60, can you re-examine your points above (not blaming you as you acting in good faith)

The Pubs title deeds are (as at 2pm this afternoon still in name of club and not LB)

Secondly, are the pub management paying the wrong person rent ?

Needs looking in to ......

I am really even more looking forward to drinking in the still Watford owned pub ....


You can do a title deeds search yourself online, it costs £3 and any member of the public can have access, this proves fact from fiction !

Now £4. It will be in a limited company formed especially to take the legal title, so may not tell us anything.

buckler wrote:
Whatever , everyone's an expert! 1 question ? Where are the idiots that spent months arguing and backing this crook! Myself ,LD and others that have been banned because of it said it from day 1 ? Where are you? Back under the stone you weasels !

Roy Stockdill wrote:
>This whole sorry affair raises are far more serious question... That of the role of the FA and Football League when conducting fit and proper person tests.<

As I have been saying repeatedly, doesn't the whole problem go far beyond just Watford's current troubles, the FA and the Football League? The whole of English football (can't speak about Scottish football because I know very little about it) is a veritable quagmire of corruption, venality, greed and extremely dodgy finances that hardly anyone seems to understand?

I get the feeling clubs regard the FA and the Football League with contempt and arrogantly believe they are above any law because both bodies are toothless tigers.

Perhaps, as I have also suggested, we need a Leveson-type inquiry into football?

D.unstable wrote:
After Saturdays win and the FA cup draw I totally forgot about this sh*t hanging over us.