Watford one of the clubs open to the idea of safe standing at football grounds

Watford are one of the clubs who are open to the idea of 'safe standing' being implemented in English football, the Football Supporters' Federation has claimed.

The FSF have described the Hornets as "supporters" of safe standing but we understand that a fairer reflection of the club's stance is that they are open to the idea of safe standing, so neither for or against it at present.

Standing at the highest level of English football was stopped after the Taylor Report was published in the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster.

This led to clubs in the top two divisions being forced to refurbish or rebuild their stadia to make them safer, which included all-seater stadiums.

A case for 'safe standing' was presented in Westminster today, with Aston Villa chief executive Paul Faulkner and West Midlands Police Force Superintendent Steve Graham among those on the panel making the argument.

Football Supporters' Federation's safe standing co-ordinator, Peter Daykin, told BBC Sport: "We need to find out if it can work and the only way to do that is to trial it.

"The debate about standing has reached a point where both sides are entrenched.

"The bottom line is things have changed dramatically since 23 years ago when the Taylor Report was produced.

"Things have moved on massively in terms of technology and know-how around safety in football grounds."

Mr Daykin added: "What we are calling for is a number of small-scale trials at Premier League clubs up and down the country.

"Then experts, safety officers and the police can see how it works in a modern context."

Margaret Aspinall, the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group and whose son died at Hillsborough had this to say on the matter: "There are 96 reasons why it should not be allowed.

"Standing should never, ever come back. I do not think there is anything safe about standing.

"I feel insulted that people are trying to fight for justice for Hillsborough while this campaign is growing."

The 13 English league clubs who the FSF claim support safe standing are Aston Villa, Brentford, Bristol City, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Doncaster Rovers, Hull City, Peterborough United, Plymouth Argyle, Watford and AFC Wimbledon.

The proposal is to introduce 'rail seats' in a section of some Premier League grounds as part of a trial. Such seats are currently used in other European countries like Germany and they have a safety barrier and a flip-down seat on every other row.

The seats can be locked in an upright position, meaning two rows of supporters can stand in between the barriers, which it is claimed reduces the danger of a crush. And they can become all-seater venues when required.

Comments (64)

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7:04pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Bush Hornet says...

Just want a decent stadium and atmosphere - if standing helps then bring it on. Unallocated seats would be a good 1st step.
Just want a decent stadium and atmosphere - if standing helps then bring it on. Unallocated seats would be a good 1st step. Bush Hornet

7:17pm Tue 11 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

Not being funny but I can't see this catching on!
Clubs have spent millions on new stadia and ground improvements over the years and that's all to waste if we go back to standing!
Stadiums are a lot safer and fan friendly now compared to the 70s/80s and not being funny but the only place you can have these safe standing areas are in areas of a ground that are bare - Example: in the corners of a four sided stadium! Like our ground and places like Millwall, Wolves etc etc
I heard on talk sport that the safe standing option being considered is an area that's a seated with a bar in front of it! Well how's that gonna work as you won't want to be sat behind folk that are standing! I suppose you can put these areas at the back of a stand but not being funny but that is a waste of money as fans that attend games that wanna stand always go to the back anyway!
Not being funny but I can't see this catching on! Clubs have spent millions on new stadia and ground improvements over the years and that's all to waste if we go back to standing! Stadiums are a lot safer and fan friendly now compared to the 70s/80s and not being funny but the only place you can have these safe standing areas are in areas of a ground that are bare - Example: in the corners of a four sided stadium! Like our ground and places like Millwall, Wolves etc etc I heard on talk sport that the safe standing option being considered is an area that's a seated with a bar in front of it! Well how's that gonna work as you won't want to be sat behind folk that are standing! I suppose you can put these areas at the back of a stand but not being funny but that is a waste of money as fans that attend games that wanna stand always go to the back anyway! DuffmanWFC

7:20pm Tue 11 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

Ps they think it will improve the atmosphere! I didn't know that Humans couldn't sign whilst being dat down!
Ps they think it will improve the atmosphere! I didn't know that Humans couldn't sign whilst being dat down! DuffmanWFC

7:21pm Tue 11 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

That's sing not sign! Predictive text Aggghhh!
That's sing not sign! Predictive text Aggghhh! DuffmanWFC

7:28pm Tue 11 Dec 12

KeithMercer says...

Not being funny Duffman ! but you need to calm your skin down !
Bring on the standing for me !!
Not being funny Duffman ! but you need to calm your skin down ! Bring on the standing for me !! KeithMercer

7:41pm Tue 11 Dec 12

craig239 says...

Having stood as a boy at Vicarage road one night with 28000 others (yes 28000)
Its dangerous. Its very dangerous.
We lost 2-0 to Manchester United but that Stewart Scullion Goal to get them back to the Vic. I loved the look on Alex stepey's face as he picked the ball out of the net!!
Having stood as a boy at Vicarage road one night with 28000 others (yes 28000) Its dangerous. Its very dangerous. We lost 2-0 to Manchester United but that Stewart Scullion Goal to get them back to the Vic. I loved the look on Alex stepey's face as he picked the ball out of the net!! craig239

8:27pm Tue 11 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago!
Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago! DuffmanWFC

8:44pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago!
Got to disagree, that's half the problem, nice and tidy!
Besides you can't do knees up mother brown seated!
And the atmosphere is always better at away grounds where the fans usually stand in Unallocated seating.
Can't see it happening mind.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago![/p][/quote]Got to disagree, that's half the problem, nice and tidy! Besides you can't do knees up mother brown seated! And the atmosphere is always better at away grounds where the fans usually stand in Unallocated seating. Can't see it happening mind. lutondown

8:44pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago!
I would agree that it should be safe standing though.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago![/p][/quote]I would agree that it should be safe standing though. lutondown

9:25pm Tue 11 Dec 12

holtonian says...

lutondown wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago!
I would agree that it should be safe standing though.
Just cannot believe anybody could go back to standing after the past disasters.If it occured it would be a major setback.
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago![/p][/quote]I would agree that it should be safe standing though.[/p][/quote]Just cannot believe anybody could go back to standing after the past disasters.If it occured it would be a major setback. holtonian

9:32pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

holtonian wrote:
lutondown wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago!
I would agree that it should be safe standing though.
Just cannot believe anybody could go back to standing after the past disasters.If it occured it would be a major setback.
Well like most things, there will be two camps on this. The other camp will say the other camp is opinionated for not agreeing with them.
As for disasters, they were terrible, and if it was not safe, you'd be right.
[quote][p][bold]holtonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago![/p][/quote]I would agree that it should be safe standing though.[/p][/quote]Just cannot believe anybody could go back to standing after the past disasters.If it occured it would be a major setback.[/p][/quote]Well like most things, there will be two camps on this. The other camp will say the other camp is opinionated for not agreeing with them. As for disasters, they were terrible, and if it was not safe, you'd be right. lutondown

9:35pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

Bush Hornet wrote:
Just want a decent stadium and atmosphere - if standing helps then bring it on. Unallocated seats would be a good 1st step.
The Monks that attend the Vic would be mainly silent seated or standing. Only breaking their vows to munch on their prawn sarnies, or to squeak out 'yellow' to the bank of Harry the hornets drum.
Darn, I'm being opinionated again. That's a Maggieite for ya!
[quote][p][bold]Bush Hornet[/bold] wrote: Just want a decent stadium and atmosphere - if standing helps then bring it on. Unallocated seats would be a good 1st step.[/p][/quote]The Monks that attend the Vic would be mainly silent seated or standing. Only breaking their vows to munch on their prawn sarnies, or to squeak out 'yellow' to the bank of Harry the hornets drum. Darn, I'm being opinionated again. That's a Maggieite for ya! lutondown

9:45pm Tue 11 Dec 12

BarryTheHornet says...

Seriously? I can't see anyone standing for it.
Seriously? I can't see anyone standing for it. BarryTheHornet

9:46pm Tue 11 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

The only way a standing zone can be safe is if its in a corner of the ground away from seated areas and it must have a safe max ticket allocation to stop another Hilsborough happening again!
Basically if you can squeeze 800 adults into the space then the max ticket allocation for this area is say 600! This way there is enough room for fans to celebrate without getting crushed!
The only way a standing zone can be safe is if its in a corner of the ground away from seated areas and it must have a safe max ticket allocation to stop another Hilsborough happening again! Basically if you can squeeze 800 adults into the space then the max ticket allocation for this area is say 600! This way there is enough room for fans to celebrate without getting crushed! DuffmanWFC

9:50pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
The only way a standing zone can be safe is if its in a corner of the ground away from seated areas and it must have a safe max ticket allocation to stop another Hilsborough happening again!
Basically if you can squeeze 800 adults into the space then the max ticket allocation for this area is say 600! This way there is enough room for fans to celebrate without getting crushed!
What about those who like some man crushing, in a nice way of course?!
Duffman you are single handily destroying this idea. Sit down shut up...ok I'm joining in ;-(
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: The only way a standing zone can be safe is if its in a corner of the ground away from seated areas and it must have a safe max ticket allocation to stop another Hilsborough happening again! Basically if you can squeeze 800 adults into the space then the max ticket allocation for this area is say 600! This way there is enough room for fans to celebrate without getting crushed![/p][/quote]What about those who like some man crushing, in a nice way of course?! Duffman you are single handily destroying this idea. Sit down shut up...ok I'm joining in ;-( lutondown

9:50pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

BarryTheHornet wrote:
Seriously? I can't see anyone standing for it.
Lol
[quote][p][bold]BarryTheHornet[/bold] wrote: Seriously? I can't see anyone standing for it.[/p][/quote]Lol lutondown

9:54pm Tue 11 Dec 12

jimbowfc says...

Hillsborough was down to the fact that the fans were caged in and could not escape onto the playing area;

NOT BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING!!!
Hillsborough was down to the fact that the fans were caged in and could not escape onto the playing area; NOT BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING!!! jimbowfc

9:56pm Tue 11 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing!
Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint!
Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone!
Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide!
If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing! Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint! Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone! Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide! DuffmanWFC

9:57pm Tue 11 Dec 12

BarryTheHornet says...

jimbowfc wrote:
Hillsborough was down to the fact that the fans were caged in and could not escape onto the playing area;

NOT BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING!!!
True dat
[quote][p][bold]jimbowfc[/bold] wrote: Hillsborough was down to the fact that the fans were caged in and could not escape onto the playing area; NOT BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING!!![/p][/quote]True dat BarryTheHornet

10:00pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing!
Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint!
Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone!
Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide!
Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt.
Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing! Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint! Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone! Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide![/p][/quote]Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt. Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version. lutondown

10:01pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

BarryTheHornet wrote:
jimbowfc wrote:
Hillsborough was down to the fact that the fans were caged in and could not escape onto the playing area;

NOT BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING!!!
True dat
Yep
[quote][p][bold]BarryTheHornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jimbowfc[/bold] wrote: Hillsborough was down to the fact that the fans were caged in and could not escape onto the playing area; NOT BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING!!![/p][/quote]True dat[/p][/quote]Yep lutondown

10:05pm Tue 11 Dec 12

mattymashup says...

We always stand in the back of the rookery and at no time has it ever felt unsafe, and we are always making noise too so it can't be all bad!
We always stand in the back of the rookery and at no time has it ever felt unsafe, and we are always making noise too so it can't be all bad! mattymashup

10:11pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

mattymashup wrote:
We always stand in the back of the rookery and at no time has it ever felt unsafe, and we are always making noise too so it can't be all bad!
Well could you please sit down and be quiet, the better classes don't like it ;-)
Better at away games, always
[quote][p][bold]mattymashup[/bold] wrote: We always stand in the back of the rookery and at no time has it ever felt unsafe, and we are always making noise too so it can't be all bad![/p][/quote]Well could you please sit down and be quiet, the better classes don't like it ;-) Better at away games, always lutondown

10:15pm Tue 11 Dec 12

Watford Willie says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
The only way a standing zone can be safe is if its in a corner of the ground away from seated areas and it must have a safe max ticket allocation to stop another Hilsborough happening again!
Basically if you can squeeze 800 adults into the space then the max ticket allocation for this area is say 600! This way there is enough room for fans to celebrate without getting crushed!
You're certainly not funny Duffman. Your comments along with some others, smack of ignorance . I suggest you view the articles on 'rail seats' and then make a more informed comment.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: The only way a standing zone can be safe is if its in a corner of the ground away from seated areas and it must have a safe max ticket allocation to stop another Hilsborough happening again! Basically if you can squeeze 800 adults into the space then the max ticket allocation for this area is say 600! This way there is enough room for fans to celebrate without getting crushed![/p][/quote]You're certainly not funny Duffman. Your comments along with some others, smack of ignorance . I suggest you view the articles on 'rail seats' and then make a more informed comment. Watford Willie

11:15pm Tue 11 Dec 12

D.unstable says...

lutondown wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing!
Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint!
Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone!
Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide!
Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt.
Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.
The cost of living was probably not much different to the current day. If it was that cheap, could have bought 3 Council houses.

Watched Watford from the late seventies and some of my best memories are of packed terracing, Villa Park semi, The Valley, Kennel5hit Road in the cages. I wouldn't personally go back to it, but if safe do not see the problem with having a small area of safe standing, just for the peasants!!! Maybe below the seating area so that we can drop our leftovers and coffee slops on them.
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing! Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint! Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone! Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide![/p][/quote]Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt. Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.[/p][/quote]The cost of living was probably not much different to the current day. If it was that cheap, could have bought 3 Council houses. Watched Watford from the late seventies and some of my best memories are of packed terracing, Villa Park semi, The Valley, Kennel5hit Road in the cages. I wouldn't personally go back to it, but if safe do not see the problem with having a small area of safe standing, just for the peasants!!! Maybe below the seating area so that we can drop our leftovers and coffee slops on them. D.unstable

11:18pm Tue 11 Dec 12

lutondown says...

D.unstable wrote:
lutondown wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing!
Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint!
Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone!
Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide!
Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt.
Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.
The cost of living was probably not much different to the current day. If it was that cheap, could have bought 3 Council houses.

Watched Watford from the late seventies and some of my best memories are of packed terracing, Villa Park semi, The Valley, Kennel5hit Road in the cages. I wouldn't personally go back to it, but if safe do not see the problem with having a small area of safe standing, just for the peasants!!! Maybe below the seating area so that we can drop our leftovers and coffee slops on them.
That's the idea, it would be full of us council house types! Swigging cheap beer and clubbing ourselves silly. Bit like being at home with the pack, I mean family.
[quote][p][bold]D.unstable[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing! Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint! Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone! Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide![/p][/quote]Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt. Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.[/p][/quote]The cost of living was probably not much different to the current day. If it was that cheap, could have bought 3 Council houses. Watched Watford from the late seventies and some of my best memories are of packed terracing, Villa Park semi, The Valley, Kennel5hit Road in the cages. I wouldn't personally go back to it, but if safe do not see the problem with having a small area of safe standing, just for the peasants!!! Maybe below the seating area so that we can drop our leftovers and coffee slops on them.[/p][/quote]That's the idea, it would be full of us council house types! Swigging cheap beer and clubbing ourselves silly. Bit like being at home with the pack, I mean family. lutondown

11:20pm Tue 11 Dec 12

WessexLad says...

craig239 wrote:
Having stood as a boy at Vicarage road one night with 28000 others (yes 28000)
Its dangerous. Its very dangerous.
We lost 2-0 to Manchester United but that Stewart Scullion Goal to get them back to the Vic. I loved the look on Alex stepey's face as he picked the ball out of the net!!
Except that the attendance that night was 34,099, the record at the Vic. And I felt a lot safer than I had on the Kop at Anfield for another Cup replay, with 54,000 in the ground.

My abiding memory that night was the Watford "goal" that was disallowed. In those days, goalkeepers had to bounce the ball. The Watford centre forward guessed right; the ball bounced off his toecap, and he stuck it in the net.
[quote][p][bold]craig239[/bold] wrote: Having stood as a boy at Vicarage road one night with 28000 others (yes 28000) Its dangerous. Its very dangerous. We lost 2-0 to Manchester United but that Stewart Scullion Goal to get them back to the Vic. I loved the look on Alex stepey's face as he picked the ball out of the net!![/p][/quote]Except that the attendance that night was 34,099, the record at the Vic. And I felt a lot safer than I had on the Kop at Anfield for another Cup replay, with 54,000 in the ground. My abiding memory that night was the Watford "goal" that was disallowed. In those days, goalkeepers had to bounce the ball. The Watford centre forward guessed right; the ball bounced off his toecap, and he stuck it in the net. WessexLad

11:23pm Tue 11 Dec 12

D.unstable says...

lutondown wrote:
D.unstable wrote:
lutondown wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing!
Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint!
Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone!
Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide!
Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt.
Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.
The cost of living was probably not much different to the current day. If it was that cheap, could have bought 3 Council houses.

Watched Watford from the late seventies and some of my best memories are of packed terracing, Villa Park semi, The Valley, Kennel5hit Road in the cages. I wouldn't personally go back to it, but if safe do not see the problem with having a small area of safe standing, just for the peasants!!! Maybe below the seating area so that we can drop our leftovers and coffee slops on them.
That's the idea, it would be full of us council house types! Swigging cheap beer and clubbing ourselves silly. Bit like being at home with the pack, I mean family.
We could watch those ruffians fight over a mouthful of burger bun at half time
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D.unstable[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: If standing came back it will end up being a let down as it sounds all great reminiscing about the good old days but after you've been once or twice to the standing zones you'll end up going back to your seats thinking what was all the hype and fuss about with standing! Not being funny but the only reason the atmosphere was apparently better during the terracing years is that football was a lower end working men's sport that was cheap to attend and the young men of the 70s and 80s got wasted on booze as it was also only a quid or so a pint! Has everybody forgot that those years were the worst for violence and racism in football! Good riddance they've gone! Football has moved on due to its financial rewards and its multi multi millionaire owners that want nice safe stadiums with players with skill that promote the club world wide![/p][/quote]Lower end working man? Outrageous. The price was relative. Elton John was pretty rich. And I always thought the Vic looked great full and noisy. Football is now no richer, just seriously up to its knees in debt. Sorry Duffster, things weren't perfect I grant you, but it was a lot more real than today's sanitised version.[/p][/quote]The cost of living was probably not much different to the current day. If it was that cheap, could have bought 3 Council houses. Watched Watford from the late seventies and some of my best memories are of packed terracing, Villa Park semi, The Valley, Kennel5hit Road in the cages. I wouldn't personally go back to it, but if safe do not see the problem with having a small area of safe standing, just for the peasants!!! Maybe below the seating area so that we can drop our leftovers and coffee slops on them.[/p][/quote]That's the idea, it would be full of us council house types! Swigging cheap beer and clubbing ourselves silly. Bit like being at home with the pack, I mean family.[/p][/quote]We could watch those ruffians fight over a mouthful of burger bun at half time D.unstable

11:46pm Tue 11 Dec 12

watford1881 says...

I'm against standing at any ground.. For me it would be a huge backwards step...
I'm against standing at any ground.. For me it would be a huge backwards step... watford1881

11:55pm Tue 11 Dec 12

hornet in oz. says...

This would solve the problem
http://uk.eurosport.
yahoo.com/blogs/worl
d-of-sport/udinese-c
heered-serie-match-p
recisely-one-fan-152
055117.html
This would solve the problem http://uk.eurosport. yahoo.com/blogs/worl d-of-sport/udinese-c heered-serie-match-p recisely-one-fan-152 055117.html hornet in oz.

1:21am Wed 12 Dec 12

Bush Hornet says...

lutondown wrote:
Bush Hornet wrote:
Just want a decent stadium and atmosphere - if standing helps then bring it on. Unallocated seats would be a good 1st step.
The Monks that attend the Vic would be mainly silent seated or standing. Only breaking their vows to munch on their prawn sarnies, or to squeak out 'yellow' to the bank of Harry the hornets drum.
Darn, I'm being opinionated again. That's a Maggieite for ya!
Maybe the monks of vicarage road need to brew some special ale and sell it at the red lion. This would warm everyone's cockles and get us all singing. The only draught beer on offer was lager - acceptable only to Thatcherites and agnostics.

Also, until there is lovely warm water in the vicarage rd toilets there is simply no hope. People don't mind standing so long as they can wash their hands in comfort.
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bush Hornet[/bold] wrote: Just want a decent stadium and atmosphere - if standing helps then bring it on. Unallocated seats would be a good 1st step.[/p][/quote]The Monks that attend the Vic would be mainly silent seated or standing. Only breaking their vows to munch on their prawn sarnies, or to squeak out 'yellow' to the bank of Harry the hornets drum. Darn, I'm being opinionated again. That's a Maggieite for ya![/p][/quote]Maybe the monks of vicarage road need to brew some special ale and sell it at the red lion. This would warm everyone's cockles and get us all singing. The only draught beer on offer was lager - acceptable only to Thatcherites and agnostics. Also, until there is lovely warm water in the vicarage rd toilets there is simply no hope. People don't mind standing so long as they can wash their hands in comfort. Bush Hornet

7:43am Wed 12 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

Not being funny but I have already stated that the idea of safe seating is a rail in front of you and a seat behind! What's the point? When its a sh*t game you will sit down and say nowt and when there is some action you'll stand up! Sounds like all seater stadia to me already!
Tell you what shall we bring back tight shorts and one sub too?
Good riddance to standing stadia and that will be the way as there is only 13 clubs that support this! I thought the league had close to 100 clubs? Going knowere is this plea for safe standing!
Not being funny but I have already stated that the idea of safe seating is a rail in front of you and a seat behind! What's the point? When its a sh*t game you will sit down and say nowt and when there is some action you'll stand up! Sounds like all seater stadia to me already! Tell you what shall we bring back tight shorts and one sub too? Good riddance to standing stadia and that will be the way as there is only 13 clubs that support this! I thought the league had close to 100 clubs? Going knowere is this plea for safe standing! DuffmanWFC

9:05am Wed 12 Dec 12

Travelling Hornet says...

I'm in favour of it, put them in the back half of the Rookery , let all the younger and young at heart lads congregate there to sing their heads of safely packed in two in a row.
As I understand it the seats would be locked in the up position and you could not physically fit enough people in each row to create a crush leading to collapsed barriers and that sickening wave of fans that tumble down the terracing of old, I was there looking down at exactly that when the wall collapsed at the FA cup tie home to Man U.
I spend half the match anyway standing up , when someone decides in row AA that they can't see the action or just get too excited to contain themselves and it results in a sort of front to back Mexican wave!!
Get those people in the rail seats at the back a d let me eat my prawn sarnies in peace!!!
I'm in favour of it, put them in the back half of the Rookery , let all the younger and young at heart lads congregate there to sing their heads of safely packed in two in a row. As I understand it the seats would be locked in the up position and you could not physically fit enough people in each row to create a crush leading to collapsed barriers and that sickening wave of fans that tumble down the terracing of old, I was there looking down at exactly that when the wall collapsed at the FA cup tie home to Man U. I spend half the match anyway standing up , when someone decides in row AA that they can't see the action or just get too excited to contain themselves and it results in a sort of front to back Mexican wave!! Get those people in the rail seats at the back a d let me eat my prawn sarnies in peace!!! Travelling Hornet

9:17am Wed 12 Dec 12

Colin West's mullet says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
Not being funny but I have already stated that the idea of safe seating is a rail in front of you and a seat behind! What's the point? When its a sh*t game you will sit down and say nowt and when there is some action you'll stand up! Sounds like all seater stadia to me already!
Tell you what shall we bring back tight shorts and one sub too?
Good riddance to standing stadia and that will be the way as there is only 13 clubs that support this! I thought the league had close to 100 clubs? Going knowere is this plea for safe standing!
if you say 'not being funny' just once more I will stage a dirty protest at The Vic, ensuring there is definitely no safe place to stand.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Not being funny but I have already stated that the idea of safe seating is a rail in front of you and a seat behind! What's the point? When its a sh*t game you will sit down and say nowt and when there is some action you'll stand up! Sounds like all seater stadia to me already! Tell you what shall we bring back tight shorts and one sub too? Good riddance to standing stadia and that will be the way as there is only 13 clubs that support this! I thought the league had close to 100 clubs? Going knowere is this plea for safe standing![/p][/quote]if you say 'not being funny' just once more I will stage a dirty protest at The Vic, ensuring there is definitely no safe place to stand. Colin West's mullet

9:28am Wed 12 Dec 12

u0rns. says...

I like the idea of standing but wasn't ever convinced until I read about and then researched rail seating.
Reduced ticket prices for standing areas would really help a club like ours, increasing attendances improving the atmosphere and increasing match day sales.
There's a few videos on YouTube regarding rail seating;
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=apX5V1IJC
W4
I like the idea of standing but wasn't ever convinced until I read about and then researched rail seating. Reduced ticket prices for standing areas would really help a club like ours, increasing attendances improving the atmosphere and increasing match day sales. There's a few videos on YouTube regarding rail seating; http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=apX5V1IJC W4 u0rns.

9:52am Wed 12 Dec 12

jasonwatford says...

For me dont really see a problem at the vic.........Lower Rous could be all standing due to the slope and the number of seats that cant be used as you cant see the pitch.....transfer them fans that want to sit still to new stand on east side when we build it. Last year at peterborough my daughter who is 14 had never stood up at a football match and she loved the standing area and the atmosphere. Has to be safe of course with a set number of fans allowed to stand in those areas and when it is sold out it is sold out dont just cram extra's in.
For me dont really see a problem at the vic.........Lower Rous could be all standing due to the slope and the number of seats that cant be used as you cant see the pitch.....transfer them fans that want to sit still to new stand on east side when we build it. Last year at peterborough my daughter who is 14 had never stood up at a football match and she loved the standing area and the atmosphere. Has to be safe of course with a set number of fans allowed to stand in those areas and when it is sold out it is sold out dont just cram extra's in. jasonwatford

10:02am Wed 12 Dec 12

mister says...

hillsborough would have been much much worse if the pen that the police tried to cram all the liverpool fans into had plaster seats bolted to the terracing.....
hillsborough would have been much much worse if the pen that the police tried to cram all the liverpool fans into had plaster seats bolted to the terracing..... mister

10:23am Wed 12 Dec 12

West Country Hornet says...

lutondown wrote:
holtonian wrote:
lutondown wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote:
Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago!
I would agree that it should be safe standing though.
Just cannot believe anybody could go back to standing after the past disasters.If it occured it would be a major setback.
Well like most things, there will be two camps on this. The other camp will say the other camp is opinionated for not agreeing with them.
As for disasters, they were terrible, and if it was not safe, you'd be right.
The tragedies that happened were simply awful. However, we are not talking about seeing the return of the 'pens' of the past.

We are actually talking about allocated standing areas with maximum capacities, CCTV, safety rails, retractable seats if required and all the other safety features of a modern stadium.

Works in Germany where the atmosphere looks immense! Why not at the Vic for future big European nights?

All for this.
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]holtonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Going back to standing is a backward step! Stadiums are so much safer and better looking now to what they were twenty odd years ago![/p][/quote]I would agree that it should be safe standing though.[/p][/quote]Just cannot believe anybody could go back to standing after the past disasters.If it occured it would be a major setback.[/p][/quote]Well like most things, there will be two camps on this. The other camp will say the other camp is opinionated for not agreeing with them. As for disasters, they were terrible, and if it was not safe, you'd be right.[/p][/quote]The tragedies that happened were simply awful. However, we are not talking about seeing the return of the 'pens' of the past. We are actually talking about allocated standing areas with maximum capacities, CCTV, safety rails, retractable seats if required and all the other safety features of a modern stadium. Works in Germany where the atmosphere looks immense! Why not at the Vic for future big European nights? All for this. West Country Hornet

10:29am Wed 12 Dec 12

lutondown says...

And it's fair to add, that their would be one person per seat/ rail. It could never be over sold. This is not the terracing of old, it's no more dangerous as the whole of the Rookery end standing on their tip toes at the moment.
It won't happen, it's a shame but I would settle for Unallocated seating and pay on day. Anything to let my fellow caveman enjoy the odd game
And it's fair to add, that their would be one person per seat/ rail. It could never be over sold. This is not the terracing of old, it's no more dangerous as the whole of the Rookery end standing on their tip toes at the moment. It won't happen, it's a shame but I would settle for Unallocated seating and pay on day. Anything to let my fellow caveman enjoy the odd game lutondown

11:14am Wed 12 Dec 12

mickallen57 says...

craig239 wrote:
Having stood as a boy at Vicarage road one night with 28000 others (yes 28000)
Its dangerous. Its very dangerous.
We lost 2-0 to Manchester United but that Stewart Scullion Goal to get them back to the Vic. I loved the look on Alex stepey's face as he picked the ball out of the net!!
I was there too what a game such great memories.I don't think you can beat the atmosphere when standing at a match. If you sit near the front of the rookery you are standing every time there is goal mouth action and with GFZ team thats quite a lot. Onwards and upwards COYH.
[quote][p][bold]craig239[/bold] wrote: Having stood as a boy at Vicarage road one night with 28000 others (yes 28000) Its dangerous. Its very dangerous. We lost 2-0 to Manchester United but that Stewart Scullion Goal to get them back to the Vic. I loved the look on Alex stepey's face as he picked the ball out of the net!![/p][/quote]I was there too what a game such great memories.I don't think you can beat the atmosphere when standing at a match. If you sit near the front of the rookery you are standing every time there is goal mouth action and with GFZ team thats quite a lot. Onwards and upwards COYH. mickallen57

12:57pm Wed 12 Dec 12

GiftonNoelWilliams says...

I always read the comments on here but have never posted before. Feel compelled to do so now though, here goes.....

Seeing as I live in Exeter now I go to a few of their games a season and always stand behind the goal in the terraced area. This is old school terracing with shallow steps and few barriers. It has always felt perfectly safe, even when its at capacity and everyone is going mad because a goals gone in. You do move about a bit, but not much. There are a relatively high number of women and children in the stand, although they tend to avoid the raucous bit in the middle at the back. Every single time I have been the atmosphere is better than I have experienced at the vic for at least 6 years.

The new style of terracing would be able to recreate this atmosphere, provide cheaper tickets, increase the capacity of the ground and be perfectly safe. It is impossible for a crush to happen if there is a barrier in front of every 2 rows of people, and it has a definitive ticket allocation!!

Also, there would be no where near as many people per square metre of stand as there was in the old days, but more than at the moment in all seater stadia. Lessons have been learnt and solutions found which enable German fans to stand, create a far better atmosphere than at any English ground, and pay cheaper ticket prices. I for one trust the Germans to have got it right and not be gambling with peoples lives. It's not as if we would be copying the Spanish or Greeks!

Also interesting to note that roughly half the comments on here are against, but 3 out of 4 people who voted are for. I worry that this vocal minority is a countrywide thing and will prevent this sensible, forward thinking and safe idea from coming to pass.
I always read the comments on here but have never posted before. Feel compelled to do so now though, here goes..... Seeing as I live in Exeter now I go to a few of their games a season and always stand behind the goal in the terraced area. This is old school terracing with shallow steps and few barriers. It has always felt perfectly safe, even when its at capacity and everyone is going mad because a goals gone in. You do move about a bit, but not much. There are a relatively high number of women and children in the stand, although they tend to avoid the raucous bit in the middle at the back. Every single time I have been the atmosphere is better than I have experienced at the vic for at least 6 years. The new style of terracing would be able to recreate this atmosphere, provide cheaper tickets, increase the capacity of the ground and be perfectly safe. It is impossible for a crush to happen if there is a barrier in front of every 2 rows of people, and it has a definitive ticket allocation!! Also, there would be no where near as many people per square metre of stand as there was in the old days, but more than at the moment in all seater stadia. Lessons have been learnt and solutions found which enable German fans to stand, create a far better atmosphere than at any English ground, and pay cheaper ticket prices. I for one trust the Germans to have got it right and not be gambling with peoples lives. It's not as if we would be copying the Spanish or Greeks! Also interesting to note that roughly half the comments on here are against, but 3 out of 4 people who voted are for. I worry that this vocal minority is a countrywide thing and will prevent this sensible, forward thinking and safe idea from coming to pass. GiftonNoelWilliams

1:15pm Wed 12 Dec 12

D.unstable says...

Colin West's mullet wrote:
DuffmanWFC wrote: Not being funny but I have already stated that the idea of safe seating is a rail in front of you and a seat behind! What's the point? When its a sh*t game you will sit down and say nowt and when there is some action you'll stand up! Sounds like all seater stadia to me already! Tell you what shall we bring back tight shorts and one sub too? Good riddance to standing stadia and that will be the way as there is only 13 clubs that support this! I thought the league had close to 100 clubs? Going knowere is this plea for safe standing!
if you say 'not being funny' just once more I will stage a dirty protest at The Vic, ensuring there is definitely no safe place to stand.
I dont think he is joking...without being funny!!!
[quote][p][bold]Colin West's mullet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: Not being funny but I have already stated that the idea of safe seating is a rail in front of you and a seat behind! What's the point? When its a sh*t game you will sit down and say nowt and when there is some action you'll stand up! Sounds like all seater stadia to me already! Tell you what shall we bring back tight shorts and one sub too? Good riddance to standing stadia and that will be the way as there is only 13 clubs that support this! I thought the league had close to 100 clubs? Going knowere is this plea for safe standing![/p][/quote]if you say 'not being funny' just once more I will stage a dirty protest at The Vic, ensuring there is definitely no safe place to stand.[/p][/quote]I dont think he is joking...without being funny!!! D.unstable

1:33pm Wed 12 Dec 12

pstannard4 says...

Silly and absolutley stupid idea.

I am totally against the idea. I would not have supported this idea.

Hope thid idea fails badley before this turns in ti another hillsbourgh disater
Silly and absolutley stupid idea. I am totally against the idea. I would not have supported this idea. Hope thid idea fails badley before this turns in ti another hillsbourgh disater pstannard4

1:55pm Wed 12 Dec 12

GiftonNoelWilliams says...

pstannard4 wrote:
Silly and absolutley stupid idea.

I am totally against the idea. I would not have supported this idea.

Hope thid idea fails badley before this turns in ti another hillsbourgh disater
Have you looked at the design of the new form of terracing, or read about the German experience of using it? A Hillsbourgh type disaster is simply not possible.
[quote][p][bold]pstannard4[/bold] wrote: Silly and absolutley stupid idea. I am totally against the idea. I would not have supported this idea. Hope thid idea fails badley before this turns in ti another hillsbourgh disater[/p][/quote]Have you looked at the design of the new form of terracing, or read about the German experience of using it? A Hillsbourgh type disaster is simply not possible. GiftonNoelWilliams

1:58pm Wed 12 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

Not being funny but lol :-)
Safe standing increases atmosphere? Rubbish that statement as people will either sing or not sing!If you want a vocal zone then the club need to have an area of the ground which is a vocal zone and people are aware that it will be noisy and stood in those sections and can purchase a ticket for what they want in regards atmosphere! No need for safe seating as can be back 2,000 seats of roukery so you can stand and sing! If more take up on the vocal zone idea then make middle sections of the upper Rous a vocal zone!
Regards Germans and Italians standing at their games it has been revealed this week that football violence and arrests at these stadiums are higher at those grounds then any ware else in Europe!
Not being funny but lol :-) Safe standing increases atmosphere? Rubbish that statement as people will either sing or not sing!If you want a vocal zone then the club need to have an area of the ground which is a vocal zone and people are aware that it will be noisy and stood in those sections and can purchase a ticket for what they want in regards atmosphere! No need for safe seating as can be back 2,000 seats of roukery so you can stand and sing! If more take up on the vocal zone idea then make middle sections of the upper Rous a vocal zone! Regards Germans and Italians standing at their games it has been revealed this week that football violence and arrests at these stadiums are higher at those grounds then any ware else in Europe! DuffmanWFC

2:01pm Wed 12 Dec 12

lutondown says...

GiftonNoelWilliams wrote:
I always read the comments on here but have never posted before. Feel compelled to do so now though, here goes.....

Seeing as I live in Exeter now I go to a few of their games a season and always stand behind the goal in the terraced area. This is old school terracing with shallow steps and few barriers. It has always felt perfectly safe, even when its at capacity and everyone is going mad because a goals gone in. You do move about a bit, but not much. There are a relatively high number of women and children in the stand, although they tend to avoid the raucous bit in the middle at the back. Every single time I have been the atmosphere is better than I have experienced at the vic for at least 6 years.

The new style of terracing would be able to recreate this atmosphere, provide cheaper tickets, increase the capacity of the ground and be perfectly safe. It is impossible for a crush to happen if there is a barrier in front of every 2 rows of people, and it has a definitive ticket allocation!!

Also, there would be no where near as many people per square metre of stand as there was in the old days, but more than at the moment in all seater stadia. Lessons have been learnt and solutions found which enable German fans to stand, create a far better atmosphere than at any English ground, and pay cheaper ticket prices. I for one trust the Germans to have got it right and not be gambling with peoples lives. It's not as if we would be copying the Spanish or Greeks!

Also interesting to note that roughly half the comments on here are against, but 3 out of 4 people who voted are for. I worry that this vocal minority is a countrywide thing and will prevent this sensible, forward thinking and safe idea from coming to pass.
A sensible post, that's just about right. Those that won't even listen to the debate, are beyond reason, so it's no point in even talking to them.
The actions of zealot Liberals! Now there's a juxtaposition for you Bush!
[quote][p][bold]GiftonNoelWilliams[/bold] wrote: I always read the comments on here but have never posted before. Feel compelled to do so now though, here goes..... Seeing as I live in Exeter now I go to a few of their games a season and always stand behind the goal in the terraced area. This is old school terracing with shallow steps and few barriers. It has always felt perfectly safe, even when its at capacity and everyone is going mad because a goals gone in. You do move about a bit, but not much. There are a relatively high number of women and children in the stand, although they tend to avoid the raucous bit in the middle at the back. Every single time I have been the atmosphere is better than I have experienced at the vic for at least 6 years. The new style of terracing would be able to recreate this atmosphere, provide cheaper tickets, increase the capacity of the ground and be perfectly safe. It is impossible for a crush to happen if there is a barrier in front of every 2 rows of people, and it has a definitive ticket allocation!! Also, there would be no where near as many people per square metre of stand as there was in the old days, but more than at the moment in all seater stadia. Lessons have been learnt and solutions found which enable German fans to stand, create a far better atmosphere than at any English ground, and pay cheaper ticket prices. I for one trust the Germans to have got it right and not be gambling with peoples lives. It's not as if we would be copying the Spanish or Greeks! Also interesting to note that roughly half the comments on here are against, but 3 out of 4 people who voted are for. I worry that this vocal minority is a countrywide thing and will prevent this sensible, forward thinking and safe idea from coming to pass.[/p][/quote]A sensible post, that's just about right. Those that won't even listen to the debate, are beyond reason, so it's no point in even talking to them. The actions of zealot Liberals! Now there's a juxtaposition for you Bush! lutondown

6:09pm Wed 12 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

I'm all up for opinions and I won't abuse anyone who differs from me but a safe standing being considered is basically a seat with a rail in front of it for safety.
Not being funny but you start off standing then a few will sit down in front of you, then you will sit down then a few behind will sit down and so on till everyone is sat down! Sort of defeats the object really!
The same people who sing regular at games will sing wether stood or sat!
We all want a safe environment at football games especially as we are a club that looks towards families and the local communities! And it's proven fact that all seater stadia is the safest and best way forward to protect everyone's safety!
If its an improved atmosphere that we all crave then every fan needs to look at themselves and start being more vocal!
Vocal zones are the way forward and they could be spread around the ground depending on demand but there is no point unless other fans start singing! What I'm trying to say is if there is only 500 fans that sing constantly every game then the atmosphere won't get any better no matter if you have safe standing or not or vocal zones or not!
I'm all up for opinions and I won't abuse anyone who differs from me but a safe standing being considered is basically a seat with a rail in front of it for safety. Not being funny but you start off standing then a few will sit down in front of you, then you will sit down then a few behind will sit down and so on till everyone is sat down! Sort of defeats the object really! The same people who sing regular at games will sing wether stood or sat! We all want a safe environment at football games especially as we are a club that looks towards families and the local communities! And it's proven fact that all seater stadia is the safest and best way forward to protect everyone's safety! If its an improved atmosphere that we all crave then every fan needs to look at themselves and start being more vocal! Vocal zones are the way forward and they could be spread around the ground depending on demand but there is no point unless other fans start singing! What I'm trying to say is if there is only 500 fans that sing constantly every game then the atmosphere won't get any better no matter if you have safe standing or not or vocal zones or not! DuffmanWFC

6:14pm Wed 12 Dec 12

lutondown says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
I'm all up for opinions and I won't abuse anyone who differs from me but a safe standing being considered is basically a seat with a rail in front of it for safety.
Not being funny but you start off standing then a few will sit down in front of you, then you will sit down then a few behind will sit down and so on till everyone is sat down! Sort of defeats the object really!
The same people who sing regular at games will sing wether stood or sat!
We all want a safe environment at football games especially as we are a club that looks towards families and the local communities! And it's proven fact that all seater stadia is the safest and best way forward to protect everyone's safety!
If its an improved atmosphere that we all crave then every fan needs to look at themselves and start being more vocal!
Vocal zones are the way forward and they could be spread around the ground depending on demand but there is no point unless other fans start singing! What I'm trying to say is if there is only 500 fans that sing constantly every game then the atmosphere won't get any better no matter if you have safe standing or not or vocal zones or not!
Duffster, you are not who I was referring to. Your posts are always reasonable.
I prefer to stand, but to be honest I think this almost a pointless debate because it won't happen.
I would rather the club pull their finger out and open up a pay as you go area, with Unallocated seating. That 500 you refer to will be significant if lumped together.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: I'm all up for opinions and I won't abuse anyone who differs from me but a safe standing being considered is basically a seat with a rail in front of it for safety. Not being funny but you start off standing then a few will sit down in front of you, then you will sit down then a few behind will sit down and so on till everyone is sat down! Sort of defeats the object really! The same people who sing regular at games will sing wether stood or sat! We all want a safe environment at football games especially as we are a club that looks towards families and the local communities! And it's proven fact that all seater stadia is the safest and best way forward to protect everyone's safety! If its an improved atmosphere that we all crave then every fan needs to look at themselves and start being more vocal! Vocal zones are the way forward and they could be spread around the ground depending on demand but there is no point unless other fans start singing! What I'm trying to say is if there is only 500 fans that sing constantly every game then the atmosphere won't get any better no matter if you have safe standing or not or vocal zones or not![/p][/quote]Duffster, you are not who I was referring to. Your posts are always reasonable. I prefer to stand, but to be honest I think this almost a pointless debate because it won't happen. I would rather the club pull their finger out and open up a pay as you go area, with Unallocated seating. That 500 you refer to will be significant if lumped together. lutondown

6:28pm Wed 12 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

I know your not refering to me LD and I'm cool with what you gotta say, I loved standing back in the day under the old scoreboard and I sang till my voice was gone!
I want all our fans to be safe especially the young ones.
The atmosphere needs improving at the Vic and I agree to that but safe standing won't do that! We need more people to sing and maybe having a large part of our home end as a vocal zone could improve this? Then if it takes off and our gates improve we can then have vocal zones in the Rous stand and so on! This will then improve the atmosphere around the whole ground, but first we need more fans to buy into being vocal!
I know your not refering to me LD and I'm cool with what you gotta say, I loved standing back in the day under the old scoreboard and I sang till my voice was gone! I want all our fans to be safe especially the young ones. The atmosphere needs improving at the Vic and I agree to that but safe standing won't do that! We need more people to sing and maybe having a large part of our home end as a vocal zone could improve this? Then if it takes off and our gates improve we can then have vocal zones in the Rous stand and so on! This will then improve the atmosphere around the whole ground, but first we need more fans to buy into being vocal! DuffmanWFC

6:29pm Wed 12 Dec 12

GiftonNoelWilliams says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
I'm all up for opinions and I won't abuse anyone who differs from me but a safe standing being considered is basically a seat with a rail in front of it for safety.
Not being funny but you start off standing then a few will sit down in front of you, then you will sit down then a few behind will sit down and so on till everyone is sat down! Sort of defeats the object really!
The same people who sing regular at games will sing wether stood or sat!
We all want a safe environment at football games especially as we are a club that looks towards families and the local communities! And it's proven fact that all seater stadia is the safest and best way forward to protect everyone's safety!
If its an improved atmosphere that we all crave then every fan needs to look at themselves and start being more vocal!
Vocal zones are the way forward and they could be spread around the ground depending on demand but there is no point unless other fans start singing! What I'm trying to say is if there is only 500 fans that sing constantly every game then the atmosphere won't get any better no matter if you have safe standing or not or vocal zones or not!
People wouldn't end up sitting down in the safe standing area as when it is being used as a standing area there are 2 rows/steps and just 1 seat attached to the rear barrier. So there would be at least twice as many people in the standing area as seats.

Unless of course it is half empty, in which case you get to sit down and get plenty of leg room for a much cheaper price!
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: I'm all up for opinions and I won't abuse anyone who differs from me but a safe standing being considered is basically a seat with a rail in front of it for safety. Not being funny but you start off standing then a few will sit down in front of you, then you will sit down then a few behind will sit down and so on till everyone is sat down! Sort of defeats the object really! The same people who sing regular at games will sing wether stood or sat! We all want a safe environment at football games especially as we are a club that looks towards families and the local communities! And it's proven fact that all seater stadia is the safest and best way forward to protect everyone's safety! If its an improved atmosphere that we all crave then every fan needs to look at themselves and start being more vocal! Vocal zones are the way forward and they could be spread around the ground depending on demand but there is no point unless other fans start singing! What I'm trying to say is if there is only 500 fans that sing constantly every game then the atmosphere won't get any better no matter if you have safe standing or not or vocal zones or not![/p][/quote]People wouldn't end up sitting down in the safe standing area as when it is being used as a standing area there are 2 rows/steps and just 1 seat attached to the rear barrier. So there would be at least twice as many people in the standing area as seats. Unless of course it is half empty, in which case you get to sit down and get plenty of leg room for a much cheaper price! GiftonNoelWilliams

6:30pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Bush Hornet says...

lutondown wrote:
GiftonNoelWilliams wrote:
I always read the comments on here but have never posted before. Feel compelled to do so now though, here goes.....

Seeing as I live in Exeter now I go to a few of their games a season and always stand behind the goal in the terraced area. This is old school terracing with shallow steps and few barriers. It has always felt perfectly safe, even when its at capacity and everyone is going mad because a goals gone in. You do move about a bit, but not much. There are a relatively high number of women and children in the stand, although they tend to avoid the raucous bit in the middle at the back. Every single time I have been the atmosphere is better than I have experienced at the vic for at least 6 years.

The new style of terracing would be able to recreate this atmosphere, provide cheaper tickets, increase the capacity of the ground and be perfectly safe. It is impossible for a crush to happen if there is a barrier in front of every 2 rows of people, and it has a definitive ticket allocation!!

Also, there would be no where near as many people per square metre of stand as there was in the old days, but more than at the moment in all seater stadia. Lessons have been learnt and solutions found which enable German fans to stand, create a far better atmosphere than at any English ground, and pay cheaper ticket prices. I for one trust the Germans to have got it right and not be gambling with peoples lives. It's not as if we would be copying the Spanish or Greeks!

Also interesting to note that roughly half the comments on here are against, but 3 out of 4 people who voted are for. I worry that this vocal minority is a countrywide thing and will prevent this sensible, forward thinking and safe idea from coming to pass.
A sensible post, that's just about right. Those that won't even listen to the debate, are beyond reason, so it's no point in even talking to them.
The actions of zealot Liberals! Now there's a juxtaposition for you Bush!
Those zealot liberals are a scourge on our club like the silent, non-brewing monks. I think they should be confined to the upper rous. Gifton has been spot-on. Not how I always remember him.
[quote][p][bold]lutondown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GiftonNoelWilliams[/bold] wrote: I always read the comments on here but have never posted before. Feel compelled to do so now though, here goes..... Seeing as I live in Exeter now I go to a few of their games a season and always stand behind the goal in the terraced area. This is old school terracing with shallow steps and few barriers. It has always felt perfectly safe, even when its at capacity and everyone is going mad because a goals gone in. You do move about a bit, but not much. There are a relatively high number of women and children in the stand, although they tend to avoid the raucous bit in the middle at the back. Every single time I have been the atmosphere is better than I have experienced at the vic for at least 6 years. The new style of terracing would be able to recreate this atmosphere, provide cheaper tickets, increase the capacity of the ground and be perfectly safe. It is impossible for a crush to happen if there is a barrier in front of every 2 rows of people, and it has a definitive ticket allocation!! Also, there would be no where near as many people per square metre of stand as there was in the old days, but more than at the moment in all seater stadia. Lessons have been learnt and solutions found which enable German fans to stand, create a far better atmosphere than at any English ground, and pay cheaper ticket prices. I for one trust the Germans to have got it right and not be gambling with peoples lives. It's not as if we would be copying the Spanish or Greeks! Also interesting to note that roughly half the comments on here are against, but 3 out of 4 people who voted are for. I worry that this vocal minority is a countrywide thing and will prevent this sensible, forward thinking and safe idea from coming to pass.[/p][/quote]A sensible post, that's just about right. Those that won't even listen to the debate, are beyond reason, so it's no point in even talking to them. The actions of zealot Liberals! Now there's a juxtaposition for you Bush![/p][/quote]Those zealot liberals are a scourge on our club like the silent, non-brewing monks. I think they should be confined to the upper rous. Gifton has been spot-on. Not how I always remember him. Bush Hornet

6:37pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Vicar*o*rage says...

Large numbers standing still goes on in all seated stadium, The Kop at Liverpool, Stretford End an Manure, The New Den, Upton Park, to name a few. Why not introduce properely controled standing than these phoney All (non) seater stadiums
Large numbers standing still goes on in all seated stadium, The Kop at Liverpool, Stretford End an Manure, The New Den, Upton Park, to name a few. Why not introduce properely controled standing than these phoney All (non) seater stadiums Vicar*o*rage

7:13pm Wed 12 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

The only way being put forward is a seat with a protective rail infront of it!
So for instance if it was in place at Upton park all that would happen is that rails would be fitted to the already in place seating = same capacity = same atmosphere!
Why spend needless money on this idea when you just allow people to stand up at the back of a stand as it doesn't obstruct anyone!
Ps I can't see Anfield agreeing to this tho!
The only way being put forward is a seat with a protective rail infront of it! So for instance if it was in place at Upton park all that would happen is that rails would be fitted to the already in place seating = same capacity = same atmosphere! Why spend needless money on this idea when you just allow people to stand up at the back of a stand as it doesn't obstruct anyone! Ps I can't see Anfield agreeing to this tho! DuffmanWFC

7:16pm Wed 12 Dec 12

DuffmanWFC says...

Anyway I'm getting board of this subject and its a wasted debate as it won't happen!
Anyway lets talk about the game on Saturday, I hope we stuff em!
Anyway I'm getting board of this subject and its a wasted debate as it won't happen! Anyway lets talk about the game on Saturday, I hope we stuff em! DuffmanWFC

7:18pm Wed 12 Dec 12

big_doris says...

standing is gr8 when the game's exciting, but when it isn't i just want to sit down. maybe i could transfer to safe standing when we're attacking, and go back to my seat for the boring bits
standing is gr8 when the game's exciting, but when it isn't i just want to sit down. maybe i could transfer to safe standing when we're attacking, and go back to my seat for the boring bits big_doris

7:35pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Vicar*o*rage says...

At the Rookery, when ever Watford are attacking the Rookery End, you 100s on prats stand up forcing everyone else to stand up. Thats why designated Standing areas are needed
At the Rookery, when ever Watford are attacking the Rookery End, you 100s on prats stand up forcing everyone else to stand up. Thats why designated Standing areas are needed Vicar*o*rage

8:45pm Wed 12 Dec 12

jasonwatford says...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/w
orld-europe-20700529


take a look at this guy standing up !!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/w orld-europe-20700529 take a look at this guy standing up !! jasonwatford

9:04pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Travelling Hornet says...

DuffmanWFC wrote:
The only way being put forward is a seat with a protective rail infront of it!
So for instance if it was in place at Upton park all that would happen is that rails would be fitted to the already in place seating = same capacity = same atmosphere!
Why spend needless money on this idea when you just allow people to stand up at the back of a stand as it doesn't obstruct anyone!
Ps I can't see Anfield agreeing to this tho!
The seats are locked and therefore cannot be used in normal games. They are only unlocked for European games when the stadiums have to be all seated.
[quote][p][bold]DuffmanWFC[/bold] wrote: The only way being put forward is a seat with a protective rail infront of it! So for instance if it was in place at Upton park all that would happen is that rails would be fitted to the already in place seating = same capacity = same atmosphere! Why spend needless money on this idea when you just allow people to stand up at the back of a stand as it doesn't obstruct anyone! Ps I can't see Anfield agreeing to this tho![/p][/quote]The seats are locked and therefore cannot be used in normal games. They are only unlocked for European games when the stadiums have to be all seated. Travelling Hornet

9:23pm Wed 12 Dec 12

Bush Hornet says...

Vicar*o*rage wrote:
At the Rookery, when ever Watford are attacking the Rookery End, you 100s on prats stand up forcing everyone else to stand up. Thats why designated Standing areas are needed
Sorry Vicar but the sound of everyone standing up with the seats flipping back is a beautiful thing and must be heard by the players as they feel our anticipation. It's the closest we get to sucking the ball into the net.
[quote][p][bold]Vicar*o*rage[/bold] wrote: At the Rookery, when ever Watford are attacking the Rookery End, you 100s on prats stand up forcing everyone else to stand up. Thats why designated Standing areas are needed[/p][/quote]Sorry Vicar but the sound of everyone standing up with the seats flipping back is a beautiful thing and must be heard by the players as they feel our anticipation. It's the closest we get to sucking the ball into the net. Bush Hornet

10:57pm Wed 12 Dec 12

WessexLad says...

Bush Hornet wrote:
Vicar*o*rage wrote:
At the Rookery, when ever Watford are attacking the Rookery End, you 100s on prats stand up forcing everyone else to stand up. Thats why designated Standing areas are needed
Sorry Vicar but the sound of everyone standing up with the seats flipping back is a beautiful thing and must be heard by the players as they feel our anticipation. It's the closest we get to sucking the ball into the net.
Agreed - but it's nice to be able to sit down for most of the game!
[quote][p][bold]Bush Hornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Vicar*o*rage[/bold] wrote: At the Rookery, when ever Watford are attacking the Rookery End, you 100s on prats stand up forcing everyone else to stand up. Thats why designated Standing areas are needed[/p][/quote]Sorry Vicar but the sound of everyone standing up with the seats flipping back is a beautiful thing and must be heard by the players as they feel our anticipation. It's the closest we get to sucking the ball into the net.[/p][/quote]Agreed - but it's nice to be able to sit down for most of the game! WessexLad

1:18am Thu 13 Dec 12

GianlucaVialli the better italian says...

Could be a good idea but can't help thinking that this is a way of saving some money by not re-building the east stand.
Hopefully the 'hardcore' yellow order who had a brief and unsuccesful stint in the south west corner won't be in the standing section if it happens, they would be major buzz kills.
Could be a good idea but can't help thinking that this is a way of saving some money by not re-building the east stand. Hopefully the 'hardcore' yellow order who had a brief and unsuccesful stint in the south west corner won't be in the standing section if it happens, they would be major buzz kills. GianlucaVialli the better italian

8:56am Thu 13 Dec 12

northofwatfordpete says...

I always thought that it was a short sighted knee jerk reaction to make stadia all seated. Safe standing areas has and always will be an option and I believe that clubs should include standing areas for both home and away supporters.These can be a lot cheaper, allow fans to circulate and I am sure that the atmosphere will improve no end. Standing areas (terraces) allows you to watch a game with who you like and also suits fans with dodgy backs or who are too tall to be crammed into plastic bucket seats.
When terraces were removed from football grounds a large section of supporters were penalised and remain so today.
I always thought that it was a short sighted knee jerk reaction to make stadia all seated. Safe standing areas has and always will be an option and I believe that clubs should include standing areas for both home and away supporters.These can be a lot cheaper, allow fans to circulate and I am sure that the atmosphere will improve no end. Standing areas (terraces) allows you to watch a game with who you like and also suits fans with dodgy backs or who are too tall to be crammed into plastic bucket seats. When terraces were removed from football grounds a large section of supporters were penalised and remain so today. northofwatfordpete

9:26am Thu 13 Dec 12

mister says...

So many people have a few on this despite such a low percentage actually understanding what safe standing is and what caused the hillsborough disaster....
So many people have a few on this despite such a low percentage actually understanding what safe standing is and what caused the hillsborough disaster.... mister

10:11am Thu 13 Dec 12

Colin West's mullet says...

on a completely different topic - if we thought OUR away support was poor, spare a thought for our Italian cousins...*unapologe
tically heartwarming Christmas story alert*

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/world-europe-2
0700529
on a completely different topic - if we thought OUR away support was poor, spare a thought for our Italian cousins...*unapologe tically heartwarming Christmas story alert* http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/world-europe-2 0700529 Colin West's mullet

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