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Watford crash to Crystal Palace loss

Watford’s defensive improvements deserted them in shambolic fashion as they crashed to a 4-0 defeat to Crystal Palace at a wet and cold Selhurst Park.

The Eagles, who completed the home and away double over the Hornets as a result, only had four attempts on target in the match but a number of collective and individual mistakes at the back ensured they had a 100 per cent successful conversion rate.

Watford had started encouragingly against a subdued Palace side in the first 15 minutes but once mistakes from the usually reliable Lloyd Doyley and Nyron Nosworthy had enabled Wilfried Zaha to put the hosts in front, the tone was set.

What followed were three more goals – two from Chris Martin and one for Kagisho Dikgacoi – that all originated from Darren Ambrose set pieces. All should have been dealt with – and all weren’t.

Watford weren’t four goals worse than their opponents – much of their play was at least on a par with Palace’s – but they lacked a cutting edge, with Chris Iwelumo, Joe Garner and replacement Gavin Massey rarely threatening to test keeper Julian Speroni.

Sean Dyche was forced into one change from the starting line-up that did so well to beat Leicester City in midweek. Second-half substitute and match-winner Craig Forsyth was promoted from the bench as Sean Murray was ruled out through injury. Massey was on the bench after being recalled from his loan spell at Colchester United and Jonathan Bond was also among the replacements again following Rene Gilmartin’s temporary switch to Crawley Town.

It was the visitors who had the first attempt when, following a throw, Adrian Mariappa crossed from the left and Iwelumo laid the ball back to Alex Kacaniklic, but the on-loan Fulham midfielder dragged his attempted half-volley down into the ground and the effort went harmlessly wide.

Jonathan Hogg was closer to the target with another strike from the edge of the area two minutes later after a free-kick had been half-cleared. But while Speroni was untroubled by either attempt, it was an encouraging start to the contest from the Hornets, who also won the first corner of the match during the early exchanges.

Watford had their best opening to date in the tenth minute when Garner was pushed over on the edge of the D and although Kacaniklic got his free-kick on target and up and over the wall, the Palace keeper read the set piece and saved with relative ease.

Dougie Freedman’s side offered very little as an attacking presence in a lacklustre first 15 minutes for them but that started to change when Martin played an incisive pass inside Doyley to put Ambrose in on the right, but his low centre was cleared behind for the Eagles’ first corner of the match. And from that set piece on the right, Mile Jedinak was given space to get up towards the far post but he got his angles wrong and headed wide of Scott Loach’s left-hand post.

That kick-started Palace into life and in the 22nd minute they took the lead.

With Doyley caught out by a pass down the inside right channel, the Hornets found themselves dragged out of position defensively when Jermaine Easter lost Nosworthy too easily and crossed low for the unmarked Zaha, whose firmly-struck first-time effort was straight at Loach but he was unable to keep it out in the wet conditions.

The Hornets, without being firmly under the cosh, were on the back foot following the goal and struggling to regain the assertiveness they showed in the opening stages. However, they did muster an attempt in the 36th minute when Forsyth nodded Nosworthy’s lofted pass down inside to Iwelumo, whose shot on the turn was saved by Speroni.

However, the Palace keeper was almost surprised by Forsyth’s well-struck 30-yard angled effort from the right that bounced just in front of the stopper. That could have been a memorable goal but Forsyth’s next involvement was to prove costly in another sense, although the Scot was by no means solely to blame for Palace going 2-0 up in the 38th minute.

Forsyth could have few complaints after being booked for a foul on Ambrose but the manner in which the Hornets defence dealt with the former Charlton Athletic man’s deep free-kick from the right was very poor, leaving Martin with a straightforward free header to double his side’s tally.

It was no surprise that Dyche made a change at the start of the second half, with Massey replacing the disappointing Garner, and the substitute was soon involved, putting Lee Hodson in the clear on the right for a cross that was partially cleared to John Eustace, who connected well enough with an overhead kick but was unable to direct the effort on target.

Watford had started the second half with more urgency but within five minutes of the restart they were three down following more dire defending.

The source was again a free-kick, this time from the left following a Hogg foul and this time Ambrose played the ball in low to the near post where Zaha had been allowed to take up an unmarked position. The wide man duly flicked the ball across the six-yard box, through a bemused defence and Martin was again left with a fairly routine finish for his second of the afternoon to make it 3-0.

Watford desperately needed something to give them a foothold back in the contest and an opportunity might have arisen in the 57th minute when Massey was upended near the edge of the area. But Mariappa hit the wall when the free-kick was teed up for him and was then rightly booked after cynically taking out Zaha, who was breaking clear on the counter.

But a bad afternoon duly got even worse for the Hornets in the 63rd minute when Palace netted their fourth – and again it came from a set piece.

Yet again Ambrose was the supplier, this time with a corner into the near post from the left and Dikgacoi got the better of Hogg to head towards goal but it was the actions of Easter that probably caused Loach to concede, as the striker swung and missed at the ball directly in front of the Hornets keeper.

After Zaha and Martin had made way for Sean Scanell and Glenn Murray, Hogg wasn’t too far away from helping his side to concede a fifth as his header back towards goal forced Loach to race from his area and the keeper’s clearance struck Scannell and rebounded wide.

Mark Yeates replaced Forsyth with 16 minutes remaining and his arrival coincided with a torrential downpour. But Yeates did provide a dangerous low cross from the left that saw Paddy McCarthy frantically scramble the ball narrowly wide of his own far post, with Massey ready to pounce.

Freedman gave Owen Garvan a run out for the last six minutes in place of Jedinak and the replacement almost rounded off a superb one and two-touch passing move with two minutes to go, but dragged his shot wide of Loach’s right-hand post.

Crystal Palace: Speroni; Clyne, McCarthy, Gardner, Parr; Ambrose, Dikgacoi, Jedinak (Garvan 84), Zaha (Scanell 71); Easter, C Martin (Murray 71). Not used: McShane and Price.

Watford: Loach; Hodson, Nosworthy, Mariappa, Doyley; Kacaniklic, Eustace, Hogg, Forsyth (Yeates 74); Iwelumo, Garner (Massey 46). Not used: Dickinson, Buaben and Bond.

Bookings: Forsyth for a foul on Ambrose (38); Mariappa for a foul on Zaha (58).

Attendance: 13,324.

Referee: Craig Pawson.

Comments(62)

stuegs says...
5:13pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Nevermind, we were due a drubbing! Zaha is awesome and iv always rated Ambrose. Good job we v had some decent results lately. Makes beating leicester all the more important.

Lets hope thats all the defensive mistakes out the way, in one game, for a while!

bigthunder says...
5:16pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team

Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!!

we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it !

loan players are needed Southampton next week

stuegs says...
5:21pm Sat 18 Feb 12

What a surprise, bad result so lets slate Bassini. Change the record. After recent results, i think we can forgive a bad day at the office.

Show some loyalty FFS

buckler says...
5:22pm Sat 18 Feb 12

4 goals and Loach didnt move off his line or talk to his defence ! As for bloke standing in front if him ! Show some guts and take him out. Liability! Bring on scottys fan club?

MyaMcHayface says...
5:32pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Loach gives me no confidence. To be honest, he can't be held responsible for today's loss. Having said that, other goalies would have saved their first one. For the second, he came off his line then stopped and was in the completely wrong place.

Our defence has looked better recently, but they conceded 4 today - 3 from set pieces. That's poor.

Our two central midfields are our best players at the moment. Hogg is brilliant and Eustace, although a bit off today, continues to be a good player for us.

Alex looks decent but didn't really do enough. I think with time he can be very good. Forsythe is not a winger. He can't run round people. He's got a good finish on him - maybe play him more advanced and central?

Our strikers are another weak point. Garner tries hard and with the right service probably can score goals for us. Iwelumo is just abysmal. He doesnt win headers, he doesnt even try. Massey won more in the air than him and held it up better in half the time, and he's only half the size. People said he does well occasionally, but he isn't good enough for this division.

We don't even have any other squad players really to correct things. Need some loan signings soon.

Who would have thought a month ago that we'd be worried when we're without Murray? It's a bit worrying.

I still think that generally, were punching above our weight this season and are doing well, enough. I just dont think it would take much to do even better.

lutondown says...
5:39pm Sat 18 Feb 12

buckler wrote:
4 goals and Loach didnt move off his line or talk to his defence ! As for bloke standing in front if him ! Show some guts and take him out. Liability! Bring on scottys fan club?
Buckler, Big Thunder will you both stop it? Bas is great, Doyley is back to the future, loach is beyond reproach.
I don't know what you guys expect after all we are really a blue square team punching way above our weight.
You have to give it to Hornet 23/24/12 months, Corbythecop, Walking dude strummer in the know and co and dear old FrannycomeCrankyfraz
or, they all knew we had a great defence and Bas is a great publican.
Bad day at the office so I'm off to my temple and some therapeutic clapping to...my sweet lord....Loz Bassini

Bush Hornet says...
5:45pm Sat 18 Feb 12

buckler wrote:
4 goals and Loach didnt move off his line or talk to his defence ! As for bloke standing in front if him ! Show some guts and take him out. Liability! Bring on scottys fan club?
boring & predictable Buckets but as you request I will defend him - even if the back 4 didn't today. Of course it was his fault that Nos & Lloyd had shockers

stuegs says...
5:52pm Sat 18 Feb 12

I think that the fact some people are quicker, have far more to say and are more inclined to comment on here when we have a bad result, says alot about the mentality of 'supporters' that use this website.

I read so many naive comments on here from idiots who expect ridiculous things from WFC. So many comments from people who just dont have a clue. Eg '...drop loach, drop loach'. Even if dyche wanted to, how can we possibly drop him?? Do we have a better goalie at the club?? NO. Can we afford to buy a better goalie?? NO. Are there better goalies available in the loan market?? Who knows. Is Dyche looking at bringing a keeper in?? Who knows.
So, amoungst other things, shut up about dropping loach.

Johnny Ryden says...
5:56pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Goals change games; the first was straight at Loach yet he couldn't keep it out; up to then we were doing fine.

Feff says...
5:59pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Buckler must have a degree - in boredom. Loach was not to blame for the goals - the defence was. Also, while we have no strikers we will not score goals but, perhaps, that logic is beyond Buckler. Go away, Buckler, and take Iwelumo with you.

Frankie Frazer says...
6:00pm Sat 18 Feb 12

One defeat after some great wins in recent weeks and suddenly we have a bell end frenzy!
Loach for me has lost all confidence and I think needs to be taken out of the firing line, could do with a goal scorer in on loan but by all accounts Massey did ok so not all bad . Hope that's all the mistakes out in this game but I have a feeling we r in for a test against Southampton next week, they looked very good when we played them at the start of the season . Having said all that I am still in awe that corporal & chairman Bell End manage to turn it round to Bassini again!! You would think Dyche had played him at left back the way some of the Bell End crew post!
.

buckler says...
6:11pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Feff wrote:
Buckler must have a degree - in boredom. Loach was not to blame for the goals - the defence was. Also, while we have no strikers we will not score goals but, perhaps, that logic is beyond Buckler. Go away, Buckler, and take Iwelumo with you.
Well done Fluff you just joined the D.F.A.L.B club! Loach at fault for 1st, no talking throughout, static, wrong starting postitions,slow legs, no bottle,too scared to push forward out of his way for 4th, in fact totally useless! I rest my case!

eltonsjohn says...
6:16pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Having a nice pint after that debacle. Now in shoreditch high st.
To those idiots singing about deeney,remember he has only scored 3. Hate going to pal-arse. Joke. Need to get a loan signing that at least looks like he can score a goal.
Over & out. Ps good to see u mr. John Souter

SimonW, Godalming says...
6:17pm Sat 18 Feb 12

shambolic defending, comical goalkeeping & never looked like scoring with Laurel & Hardy up front - total waste of time & money!!
There must be better forwards in League 2 than we have!!

Eastsussexhornet says...
6:51pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Yeates, Bauben and Dickinson on the bench. They should all be in the starting line up. Iwelumo plays again and doesn't even get substituted. poor display, yes, but what about the team selection?

Bush Hornet says...
6:56pm Sat 18 Feb 12

buckler wrote:
Feff wrote:
Buckler must have a degree - in boredom. Loach was not to blame for the goals - the defence was. Also, while we have no strikers we will not score goals but, perhaps, that logic is beyond Buckler. Go away, Buckler, and take Iwelumo with you.
Well done Fluff you just joined the D.F.A.L.B club! Loach at fault for 1st, no talking throughout, static, wrong starting postitions,slow legs, no bottle,too scared to push forward out of his way for 4th, in fact totally useless! I rest my case!
Old Buck. You're gonna rest your case. Alleluia

buckler says...
7:01pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Bush Hornet wrote:
buckler wrote:
Feff wrote:
Buckler must have a degree - in boredom. Loach was not to blame for the goals - the defence was. Also, while we have no strikers we will not score goals but, perhaps, that logic is beyond Buckler. Go away, Buckler, and take Iwelumo with you.
Well done Fluff you just joined the D.F.A.L.B club! Loach at fault for 1st, no talking throughout, static, wrong starting postitions,slow legs, no bottle,too scared to push forward out of his way for 4th, in fact totally useless! I rest my case!
Old Buck. You're gonna rest your case. Alleluia
Just for you I will! As chairman of the BE club I am kinda busy! Eastsussex is talking sense and questions need to be asked?

jimbuctu says...
7:15pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Was at the game today. Basically, whenever Iwelumo is on the teamsheet I want my money back before the game and I'll head home to the warm and Jeff Stelling.

Without a shadow of a doubt the biggest waste of space imaginable! It's no good being two inches taller than your marker if he jumps a foot higher than you do.

Really, really bad. I know we don't have an option currently but I'd rather try Forsyth up top, or for that matter just start with ten men. Staggered really at how bad he is. Who scouted this guy and fed back that he was worthy of a contract? e must have been watched a few times, surely someone would have spotted just how useless he was?

Saying that, we seem to concede the same type of goals time and again. If you kick the ball into our box, you're in with a good shout of scoring. We defend the 'corridor of uncertainty' so badly. Whether that is down to Loach, Dyche or individuals is open to debate but it's been a theme for two seasons now so we need to re-think the line we play and allow our excellent centre defenders to attack the ball. I still maintain Doyley isn't a better option than Dickinson. The lack of a left foot is too evident and limits our capability going forward, although he has become better on the ball - a bit better that is.

lutondown says...
7:23pm Sat 18 Feb 12

buckler wrote:
Bush Hornet wrote:
buckler wrote:
Feff wrote:
Buckler must have a degree - in boredom. Loach was not to blame for the goals - the defence was. Also, while we have no strikers we will not score goals but, perhaps, that logic is beyond Buckler. Go away, Buckler, and take Iwelumo with you.
Well done Fluff you just joined the D.F.A.L.B club! Loach at fault for 1st, no talking throughout, static, wrong starting postitions,slow legs, no bottle,too scared to push forward out of his way for 4th, in fact totally useless! I rest my case!
Old Buck. You're gonna rest your case. Alleluia
Just for you I will! As chairman of the BE club I am kinda busy! Eastsussex is talking sense and questions need to be asked?
alleluia?what are you a freaking gospel singer Bushman? In our tongue it's hallelujah innit.
Yes looks like the selection wasn't the best, but how about blow the pub and spend some on some loan signings and give Sean a chance.

watford4evermore says...
7:25pm Sat 18 Feb 12

bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business

lutondown says...
7:30pm Sat 18 Feb 12

watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
A pub that will fill 26 days a season at best
How many business plans have you compiled then know it all?

rousman 2 says...
7:32pm Sat 18 Feb 12

stuegs wrote:
I think that the fact some people are quicker, have far more to say and are more inclined to comment on here when we have a bad result, says alot about the mentality of 'supporters' that use this website.

I read so many naive comments on here from idiots who expect ridiculous things from WFC. So many comments from people who just dont have a clue. Eg '...drop loach, drop loach'. Even if dyche wanted to, how can we possibly drop him?? Do we have a better goalie at the club?? NO. Can we afford to buy a better goalie?? NO. Are there better goalies available in the loan market?? Who knows. Is Dyche looking at bringing a keeper in?? Who knows.
So, amoungst other things, shut up about dropping loach.
Agree if Loach has to be left out then we have to get a Keeper on loan,we also need a striker on loan Noser had a bad game today (it happens), but why is Doyley still in the team ? still look on the bright side only 12 more points to get.

COGGDAVE1 says...
7:35pm Sat 18 Feb 12

bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team

Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!!

we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it !

loan players are needed Southampton next week
Yak .. Yak .. Yak ... this bloke sounds like my ex wife ... on and on and on ...got beaten by a better team .. thats it ...get over it ... why don't you dip into your family pockets ... you self-opinionated twit ...

buckler says...
7:37pm Sat 18 Feb 12

watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
You seen how many pubs that are closing down? You seen how many pubs doing deals to get punters in ? You seen how many Businesses Bassini has run into the ground! I can tell you couldn't organise a P*** up in a brewery!

Eastsussexhornet says...
8:18pm Sat 18 Feb 12

jimbuctu wrote:
Was at the game today. Basically, whenever Iwelumo is on the teamsheet I want my money back before the game and I'll head home to the warm and Jeff Stelling.

Without a shadow of a doubt the biggest waste of space imaginable! It's no good being two inches taller than your marker if he jumps a foot higher than you do.

Really, really bad. I know we don't have an option currently but I'd rather try Forsyth up top, or for that matter just start with ten men. Staggered really at how bad he is. Who scouted this guy and fed back that he was worthy of a contract? e must have been watched a few times, surely someone would have spotted just how useless he was?

Saying that, we seem to concede the same type of goals time and again. If you kick the ball into our box, you're in with a good shout of scoring. We defend the 'corridor of uncertainty' so badly. Whether that is down to Loach, Dyche or individuals is open to debate but it's been a theme for two seasons now so we need to re-think the line we play and allow our excellent centre defenders to attack the ball. I still maintain Doyley isn't a better option than Dickinson. The lack of a left foot is too evident and limits our capability going forward, although he has become better on the ball - a bit better that is.
I know that your comments may attract critisism from some people on this for being short sighted, etc, but whilst we talk about business plans, cial sustainability (which I do often), at the end of the day, what we do on the pitch dictates everything. I know it's "chicken and egg" but I'm afraid with some of these team selections recently I can't help feeling that we have had a good run DESPITE of this rather than becasue of it. And if that carries on you can forget any financial sustainability or the holy grail of the Premiership. For goodness sake, ANYBODY would have been better up front that this Conference player (and that's being fair). It may not have meant that we would have won if Iwelumo hadn't played today becasue the defence was non-existent (why Dickinson doesn't regularly play is a seperate discussion) but at least give us a chance Sean! I completely agree with you jimbucto.

Eastsussexhornet says...
8:35pm Sat 18 Feb 12

watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
Pubs do not make money at the best of times let alone being a mile out of the town centre and only full 26 times a year for a couple of hours. Pubs are going bust all over the country. That development is a COMPLETE waste of money. It should have been left to rot OR converted into something useful like the Hornets Store with offices above. Not a lot of business acumen went into that decision.

buckler says...
8:38pm Sat 18 Feb 12

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote: Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
Pubs do not make money at the best of times let alone being a mile out of the town centre and only full 26 times a year for a couple of hours. Pubs are going bust all over the country. That development is a COMPLETE waste of money. It should have been left to rot OR converted into something useful like the Hornets Store with offices above. Not a lot of business acumen went into that decision.
Should have given it to our 2 worst players as a goodbye and payoff! Chris and our Scotty will be happy there!

Eastsussexhornet says...
8:44pm Sat 18 Feb 12

buckler wrote:
Eastsussexhornet wrote:
watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote: Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
Pubs do not make money at the best of times let alone being a mile out of the town centre and only full 26 times a year for a couple of hours. Pubs are going bust all over the country. That development is a COMPLETE waste of money. It should have been left to rot OR converted into something useful like the Hornets Store with offices above. Not a lot of business acumen went into that decision.
Should have given it to our 2 worst players as a goodbye and payoff! Chris and our Scotty will be happy there!
True. Didn't think about converting it to stables. Good idea.

hornetcarp says...
9:24pm Sat 18 Feb 12

2 tickets for sale vs Southampton. £20 each email davewhitmill@tesco.n
et if interested.

buckler says...
10:01pm Sat 18 Feb 12

hornetcarp wrote:
2 tickets for sale vs Southampton. £20 each email davewhitmill@tesco.n

et if interested.
I buy you 2 pints in Bullcrap Bassinis Bar for them?

Bush Hornet says...
1:32am Sun 19 Feb 12

lutondown wrote:
buckler wrote:
Bush Hornet wrote:
buckler wrote:
Feff wrote:
Buckler must have a degree - in boredom. Loach was not to blame for the goals - the defence was. Also, while we have no strikers we will not score goals but, perhaps, that logic is beyond Buckler. Go away, Buckler, and take Iwelumo with you.
Well done Fluff you just joined the D.F.A.L.B club! Loach at fault for 1st, no talking throughout, static, wrong starting postitions,slow legs, no bottle,too scared to push forward out of his way for 4th, in fact totally useless! I rest my case!
Old Buck. You're gonna rest your case. Alleluia
Just for you I will! As chairman of the BE club I am kinda busy! Eastsussex is talking sense and questions need to be asked?
alleluia?what are you a freaking gospel singer Bushman? In our tongue it's hallelujah innit.
Yes looks like the selection wasn't the best, but how about blow the pub and spend some on some loan signings and give Sean a chance.
Hallelujah. Alleluia. However you spell it in L*t*ntown I don't mind. Praise be. This particular thread hasn't descended into boring Loach bashing. Bless you.

COGGDAVE1 says...
5:31am Sun 19 Feb 12

Lets get rid of Bas, Sack Sean, dismiss GT, give Loach away to Luton .. let the Red Lion fall down, Re-open The derelict Stand... Give all our promising kids away, Let BigThunder be the new owner so he can use his family fortune re-build the club, appoint buckler as manager, appoint big Chris as new strikers coach ... then all of you can have the club you deserve .... oh always wanted to say this ... COGG OUT

corbindallas says...
7:45am Sun 19 Feb 12

lutondown wrote:
watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
A pub that will fill 26 days a season at best
How many business plans have you compiled then know it all?
Actually I think you are forgetting the Saracens contribution to the coffers here, I have no doubt they will be at Vicarage road longer than their current deal, also cup games, albeit may be limited but in a whole I reckon the Red Lion will have a better attendance than the majority of pubs get, still not a gold mine, I agree. Re the game Palarse really are our Bogee team we just have problems with them and especially with Ambrose in their team, scored in previous 2 and set's up all their goals, tactics should have been to take him out first, perhaps we should buy him!! As for Big Chris why oh why oh why, I really hope the scout who recommended him is no longer at Watford, hopefully Cardiff have him!

SAHornet says...
7:51am Sun 19 Feb 12

3 points from an ex-pat....
1) Pubs are sh*t business to be in right now so why waste a staggering 500k on one outside the ground?
2) Nearly everyone on this site and others too, talk about CI as being the worst striker that this club has ever seen. What went behind the decision to buy this guy and why are we playing him when we do have some other options?
3) I've just watched the games against Forest & Leicester on Watford Player....Scott Loach, OMG it must be a total nightmare to defend in front of him. His every movement is unsure and lacking in any kind of conviction.
Shout at me all you want but this is my view from afar.

Eastsussexhornet says...
10:35am Sun 19 Feb 12

SAHornet wrote:
3 points from an ex-pat....
1) Pubs are sh*t business to be in right now so why waste a staggering 500k on one outside the ground?
2) Nearly everyone on this site and others too, talk about CI as being the worst striker that this club has ever seen. What went behind the decision to buy this guy and why are we playing him when we do have some other options?
3) I've just watched the games against Forest & Leicester on Watford Player....Scott Loach, OMG it must be a total nightmare to defend in front of him. His every movement is unsure and lacking in any kind of conviction.
Shout at me all you want but this is my view from afar.
The first two questions are being asked by everyone and no one knows the answer. The first one I THINK may merely be a publicity stunt to curry favour with the fans and the second one MAY be a political decision on high, rather than SD's choice, to play him to justify the cost - both are unlikely but I can't think of anything else. The third, well yes - if you feel uneasy from South Africa, how do you think WE feel having to see it in the flesh every week? !!!!

Casterbridge says...
11:11am Sun 19 Feb 12

Good to see Massey given a run out. He was the best of the three forwards, not that that's saying much. I'd like to see him paired with Deeney v Southampton.

We are already safe from relegation, so it's time to give our Academy players some Championship experience and retire some senior players who are clearly past it.

lutondown says...
11:15am Sun 19 Feb 12

corbindallas wrote:
lutondown wrote:
watford4evermore wrote:
bigthunder wrote:
Absoulte shambles but will give dychie benefit of the doubt this time as he is having to patch up this team Maybe the wonderful Bassini can raid the family trust fund to give the manager some funds to improve the squad instead of selling his players and building pubs !!! we do not have a goalscorer we are getting by with goals from midfield but it caught up with us today , the season is not over yet is it ! loan players are needed Southampton next week
building a pub brings in money plonker with the amount people drink in this country it will be a sure winner bringing in loads of money i can tell you dont run your own business
A pub that will fill 26 days a season at best
How many business plans have you compiled then know it all?
Actually I think you are forgetting the Saracens contribution to the coffers here, I have no doubt they will be at Vicarage road longer than their current deal, also cup games, albeit may be limited but in a whole I reckon the Red Lion will have a better attendance than the majority of pubs get, still not a gold mine, I agree. Re the game Palarse really are our Bogee team we just have problems with them and especially with Ambrose in their team, scored in previous 2 and set's up all their goals, tactics should have been to take him out first, perhaps we should buy him!! As for Big Chris why oh why oh why, I really hope the scout who recommended him is no longer at Watford, hopefully Cardiff have him!
Corby
Why would anyone in their right minds walk into Weat Watford at night to buy a drink when Watford town centres full of pubs clubs and eateries?
There are also the increasing number of attacks in that area at night time that don't get reported on the media so not to upset certain groups.
It will be busy match days, but look pubs are dying on their feet unless they have added attractions such as good food.
This is not negativity but I wonder why for one it costs half a million to repair, that is nigh a cost of a total rebuild and refurb. The incumbent brewery would also cover some of the dilapidation costs ( they normally do) and for why it has been considered so important when building work in the ground is a priority?
Like I said I really do hope Bas's pledges come true, and we start to see definite timescales to these plans. I also hope we address what must be the priority, the team.
I know there are lots of Doyley loyalists here, but he should not be a starter. Loach is to blame for at least one goal when we concede each game, our attack is blunt, we lack width.
Dyche must pick the best players at his disposal and if Illewumo is the best he has, God help us

Eastsussexhornet says...
11:54am Sun 19 Feb 12

Yes, the pub is a complete waste of money. I have thought od a new name for it though - "The White Elephant".

lutondown says...
12:24pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
Yes, the pub is a complete waste of money. I have thought od a new name for it though - "The White Elephant".
lol!

Feff says...
12:51pm Sun 19 Feb 12

A question to Buckler. Richard Lee was our goalkeeper before Scott Loach. Danny Graham was our central striker before Chris Iwelumo. You can have either Lee back and Loach out or Graham back and Iwelumo out. Which of these alternatives do you choose? Loach was once a good goalkeeper. He has completely lost his confidence, not helped by postings such as yours. Iwelumo has never been a good striker and goodness only knows why Dyche signed him. Being tall is important in a rugby scrum or lineout but not when trying to score goals. Reilly never scored as many as Johnston, nor did Jenkins score as many as Blissset. The difference, however, is that Reilly and Jenkins could score, Iwelumo cannot. Send him out on loan to Northwood or Wealdstone. Play Massey. At least he has a future - I hope. Do you agree - Buckler?

lutondown says...
1:59pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Feff wrote:
A question to Buckler. Richard Lee was our goalkeeper before Scott Loach. Danny Graham was our central striker before Chris Iwelumo. You can have either Lee back and Loach out or Graham back and Iwelumo out. Which of these alternatives do you choose? Loach was once a good goalkeeper. He has completely lost his confidence, not helped by postings such as yours. Iwelumo has never been a good striker and goodness only knows why Dyche signed him. Being tall is important in a rugby scrum or lineout but not when trying to score goals. Reilly never scored as many as Johnston, nor did Jenkins score as many as Blissset. The difference, however, is that Reilly and Jenkins could score, Iwelumo cannot. Send him out on loan to Northwood or Wealdstone. Play Massey. At least he has a future - I hope. Do you agree - Buckler?
Feff
Why compare Illewumo to two of our legends?
Jenkins played a perfect foil for Luther as did Reilly for Johnston, but both could score in their own right ( we made wembley thanks to George) and Ross's ball control for a tall man was superb.
If we have to make comparisons hows about nelsons column? tho that is probably less static than the big nin himself!
I cannot remember Northwood or Wealdstone doing us such evils we would want to risk their wrath by sending him there
How about Brechin City?
Ach aye the noo
The mon dinnae move

Steve, Abbots Langley says...
3:24pm Sun 19 Feb 12

I can't believe Chris didn't get on the scoresheet - he is such a top class wardrobe (sorry I meant striker).

Wimbledonhorn says...
4:40pm Sun 19 Feb 12

The scoreline really flattered palace but there are no excuses for woeful defending. Doyley and Forsyth at fault for the first two. Our approach play was pedestrian. Eustace and Hogg kept playing horizontal passes to each other them hitting a diagonal punt to Iwelumo. Massey looked lively and should be given a run. Sorry but Forsyth and iwelumo should be dropped for good. Simply not up to this level.

mickallen57 says...
6:48pm Sun 19 Feb 12

It's A shame to get a drubbing like that when that is clearly a flattering scoreline but unless we sort out big Chris Lloyd and Scott Loach we will allways fall short Lloyds much talked about distribution has broken down many promising moves and big Chris just isn't at the races he seldom puts a header to a team mate and cannot seem to hold up play while others break from midfield to support him unfortunately Scott seems to have lost the confidence not only in the Watford faithful but more worringly in his back four.
If Sean Dyche sorts this out we will be a force to be reconded with. Hopefully we can get it back on track for the saints.However we need to hold on to the ball and not give it away so cheaply . COYH

Eastsussexhornet says...
6:59pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Wimbledonhorn wrote:
The scoreline really flattered palace but there are no excuses for woeful defending. Doyley and Forsyth at fault for the first two. Our approach play was pedestrian. Eustace and Hogg kept playing horizontal passes to each other them hitting a diagonal punt to Iwelumo. Massey looked lively and should be given a run. Sorry but Forsyth and iwelumo should be dropped for good. Simply not up to this level.
Iwelumo definately yes, Forsyth definately no. I am frankly warn out talking about Iwelumo but just one more time.......he is ABSOLUTELY HOPELESS. I don't have the benefit of having gone to the Palace game but although Forsyth isn't an influenial player, he can do things that others can't like his finishing, etc. He has to be part of a team that supports him rather than making his mark on it.

johnnyc72 says...
7:33pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Wimbledonhorn wrote:
The scoreline really flattered palace but there are no excuses for woeful defending. Doyley and Forsyth at fault for the first two. Our approach play was pedestrian. Eustace and Hogg kept playing horizontal passes to each other them hitting a diagonal punt to Iwelumo. Massey looked lively and should be given a run. Sorry but Forsyth and iwelumo should be dropped for good. Simply not up to this level.
Of course; I forgot who scored the winner against Leicester, beating a very good keeper from distance.

I think some posters on here need to remember who we are and what we have had to contend with this season. Rookie manager, loss of major players, financial constraints. I am sure everyone would have taken the position we are currently in at the start of season.

All the "Dyche out" brigade really need to have the balls to own up to what a good job he has done.

I agree that now is the time to start giving other players a chance, but five games ago it could have been so different and we could have easily been in the relegation battle.

I am sure everyone has Watford's best interests at heart, but a sense of perspective is required.

Cue the bashing....

LE PARK says...
7:53pm Sun 19 Feb 12

What i saw of our other keeper this afternoon in goal for crawley i think it's better to stick with what wev'e got no matter how painful it maybe.Also i read sd's comments before our trip to palace and he talked the team up as tho we were untouchable.Im not saying this is wrong as it was well deserved after the great midweek result but i remember this tctic falling flat before and maybe the players got too complacent.Best to say nothing in future sean and just let the football do the talking

WFC4ever says...
8:00pm Sun 19 Feb 12

OUCH!

Bad day for the defence who are usually fairly solid and we lacked anything up front pace wise without Deeney or Murray..

Maybe 4-0 was harsh in reality but still a bad defeat.

Always lose at Palace it seems...

WFC4ever says...
8:02pm Sun 19 Feb 12

I did think Massey was a rare bright spark.

Sure Big Chris is a nice chap and all that but just not good enough for this level now.

Frankie Frazer says...
8:46pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Have to say that Iwelumo has done very little to give any of us anything to cheer about, if your a big striker u need to put yourself about, ruffle some feathers, win headers and weigh in with 10 goals a season! Players like DH & GR all did this well, neither were pretty to watch but they did a job. By all accounts in his day big Chris could do the same but now his legs seem to have gone as the work rate is not there & he hardly wins a header let alone score a goal!
With regards to Loach his confidence is shot to pieces, And IMO we need a loan GK to give him a break! I don't think u suddenly become a bad Keeper over night so I hope he will regain his confidence & return a better keeper.
The only thing I ask for is that whoever pulls the shirt on we should all support them no matter what, it certainly won't do the team any good hearing a chorus of boos for any player on the pitch! Let's stick together and give the team our support ..... COYH

Bush Hornet says...
9:07pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Cheer up kids. Malky's not doing too great and Cardiff could easily miss out on play offs the way results are going. X

Stoney77 says...
9:39pm Sun 19 Feb 12

Frankie Frazer wrote:
Have to say that Iwelumo has done very little to give any of us anything to cheer about, if your a big striker u need to put yourself about, ruffle some feathers, win headers and weigh in with 10 goals a season! Players like DH & GR all did this well, neither were pretty to watch but they did a job. By all accounts in his day big Chris could do the same but now his legs seem to have gone as the work rate is not there & he hardly wins a header let alone score a goal!
With regards to Loach his confidence is shot to pieces, And IMO we need a loan GK to give him a break! I don't think u suddenly become a bad Keeper over night so I hope he will regain his confidence & return a better keeper.
The only thing I ask for is that whoever pulls the shirt on we should all support them no matter what, it certainly won't do the team any good hearing a chorus of boos for any player on the pitch! Let's stick together and give the team our support ..... COYH
COYH!


(who is GR?!)

corbindallas says...
6:00am Mon 20 Feb 12

Guys n Girls I just worked it out SD put Chris in the squad because he realised he was going to get the dreaded Manager of the Month award and had to do something about it! On the Red Lion it would have been better to turn it into a Gym rather than incorporating one in the ground!?

lutondown says...
6:07am Mon 20 Feb 12

corbindallas wrote:
Guys n Girls I just worked it out SD put Chris in the squad because he realised he was going to get the dreaded Manager of the Month award and had to do something about it! On the Red Lion it would have been better to turn it into a Gym rather than incorporating one in the ground!?
Corby
All that sun has affected your wooden top old son! Take off your helmet and smell the coffee.
The pub is a dubious investment, pub Gym or whatever, poor location for any of these reasons.
I think as it seems to be high priority theres a bigger motive
Evening All

Harry the 1st says...
7:59am Mon 20 Feb 12

Stoney77 wrote:
Frankie Frazer wrote: Have to say that Iwelumo has done very little to give any of us anything to cheer about, if your a big striker u need to put yourself about, ruffle some feathers, win headers and weigh in with 10 goals a season! Players like DH & GR all did this well, neither were pretty to watch but they did a job. By all accounts in his day big Chris could do the same but now his legs seem to have gone as the work rate is not there & he hardly wins a header let alone score a goal! With regards to Loach his confidence is shot to pieces, And IMO we need a loan GK to give him a break! I don't think u suddenly become a bad Keeper over night so I hope he will regain his confidence & return a better keeper. The only thing I ask for is that whoever pulls the shirt on we should all support them no matter what, it certainly won't do the team any good hearing a chorus of boos for any player on the pitch! Let's stick together and give the team our support ..... COYH
COYH! (who is GR?!)
Yeah who is GR? & amp?

Wimbledonhorn says...
9:19am Mon 20 Feb 12

Eastsussexhornet wrote:
Wimbledonhorn wrote:
The scoreline really flattered palace but there are no excuses for woeful defending. Doyley and Forsyth at fault for the first two. Our approach play was pedestrian. Eustace and Hogg kept playing horizontal passes to each other them hitting a diagonal punt to Iwelumo. Massey looked lively and should be given a run. Sorry but Forsyth and iwelumo should be dropped for good. Simply not up to this level.
Iwelumo definately yes, Forsyth definately no. I am frankly warn out talking about Iwelumo but just one more time.......he is ABSOLUTELY HOPELESS. I don't have the benefit of having gone to the Palace game but although Forsyth isn't an influenial player, he can do things that others can't like his finishing, etc. He has to be part of a team that supports him rather than making his mark on it.
Will have to agree to disagree re: Forsyth. Yes he's scored a couple of piledrivers but his all round game is poor. Poor first touch, barely beats his man. He seems a nice lad but thats probably half the problem, he needs to 'man up'. Compare him with someone like Murray and there is no comparsion.

Alex Hillcroft says...
9:34am Mon 20 Feb 12

Feff wrote:
A question to Buckler. Richard Lee was our goalkeeper before Scott Loach. Danny Graham was our central striker before Chris Iwelumo. You can have either Lee back and Loach out or Graham back and Iwelumo out. Which of these alternatives do you choose? Loach was once a good goalkeeper. He has completely lost his confidence, not helped by postings such as yours. Iwelumo has never been a good striker and goodness only knows why Dyche signed him. Being tall is important in a rugby scrum or lineout but not when trying to score goals. Reilly never scored as many as Johnston, nor did Jenkins score as many as Blissset. The difference, however, is that Reilly and Jenkins could score, Iwelumo cannot. Send him out on loan to Northwood or Wealdstone. Play Massey. At least he has a future - I hope. Do you agree - Buckler?
Although Blissett scored slightly more career goals than Jenkins for WFC his record was achieved over more games. When they played as partnership Jenkins was always the higher scorer. No need to respond - putting on my anorak and going out now

tonupchris says...
10:51am Mon 20 Feb 12

The Red Lion I think we all agree is a waste of money but it's done now, well nearly so lets move on. Are record at Selhurst Park is not great apart from that marvellous play off win a few years ago. Palace, Wimbledon, Charlton it doesn't matter we just struggle down there. Might be down to the players ;aughing too much when the Palace fans sing "Oh South London is wonderful"!
We've done well recently so I'm sure we can let them off this one and move on although I still don't understand two selections. Doyley. Not a right back, definitely not a left back and basically not much of a footballer. He is good at one on ones but that's it. Positionally he is dreadful. Distribution is the worst in the football league. There are better passes of a ball in park football. We have an ok left back sitting on the bench doing nothing. Up front is a joke. Garner might have a slightly better chance with a better partner but still seems to lightweight. Our front two have grand total of two goals this season. Big Chris. I'm not a big fan of slating players unless it's Doyley but please somebody tell me what Chris does? He wins very little in the air. He doesn't hold the ball up. Passing is poor. Has no mobilty at all. Can anybody tell me the last time he had a shot, on or off target? I'm fairly sure that a strikers main job is to score goals. I know they need other attributes but that is the main one. So how is Big Chris going to score? Hopefully Deeney (can't believe I'm pinning my hopes on him) will be fit next Saturday. With Massey back and hopefully Whichelow soon there will be no need for him to be even in the squad. Release him at the end of the season and put it down to one of those transfers that didn't work.
Forsyth is only young and still learning and seems to have an eye for goal. Still think Yeates might have been a better option though. I would stick Forsyth up front if we're struggling for other options.
Loach. I've stood up for him all season but he is really struggling at the moment but who else is there. For me a loan keeper is a waste of time. Give Bond a couple of games even just to give Loach a break. He was a decent keeper two years ago but seems to be lacking in confidence which is one of the most important assests for goalie to have. He has talent so hope he comes out the other side and proves the doubters wrong.
Onwards and hopefully upwards.
COYGB

WFC4ever says...
11:26am Mon 20 Feb 12

Dickinson is only a sub because he cannot defend whereas Doyley usually can....

Harry the 1st says...
1:08pm Mon 20 Feb 12

Just realised GR = Gregorz Rasiak!

Frankie Frazer says...
2:01pm Mon 20 Feb 12

Actually was George Reilly but Gregorz fits the bill too !
However I don't even know WTF I was writing when &amp came out (just a typo I think) ..

lutondown says...
3:59pm Mon 20 Feb 12

WFC4ever wrote:
Dickinson is only a sub because he cannot defend whereas Doyley usually can....
No I don't think Doyley can defend. His distribution is piddle poor and always has been. I always liked Doyleys heart. And if heart alone won awards he would win everyone, but it doesn't and we need a proper left footer in position.
Would make a damned good Barman in the White Elephant

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